Season 5 Discussion

[seacliffsal]

There were two HUGE surprises for me in this episode.  First, of course, was that Molly and Luis were already married.

However, I found this next one downright shocking...Evelyn and the family band did NOT sing/perform at her wedding or reception.  I thought for sure that they would have taken that opportunity.

[Boofish]

I see Nicole family as the complete opposite. They have spent years supporting her (meeting a man on the internet in high school, moving to Texas, getting pregnant and then crawling back to them for support) Keeping her kid while she was in the Morocco the first time for 5 weeks. Co-sponsoring Azan. Giving her money. The list goes on. This show is basically their intervention. Nicole herself says herself was "blessed with 2 wonderful step parents" and they all seem to spend time together as a functioning family unit. She practically dangles sweet little May in their face when she needs something. I'm calling B.S. on Nicole being the wronged party in that family. Seems to me that everyone around her has just had enough and there happens to be cameras there to capture the moment.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Boofish

[gonecrackers]

Something happened with Nicole growing up, but it looks to me like her mom has been through a lot with her. I was watching her face & think she was actually quite mortified at Nicole's behavior while watching her push around Azan, but it was quickly surpassed by her heart being broken watching May cry. I also think she feels if she focuses on Nicole being 'victimized' it may make a bigger impact on her, as in, do you want to be treated like that etc. If she focuses on Nicole's atrocious behavior Nicole will again claim to be working on herself & continue moving forward with the process.

I'm sure as far as how the family speaks to Nicole, the show is focusing on the negative at this point. The family will gladly play along thinking maybe something will finally resonate with Nicole & she'll grow up. But rather she seems to be enjoying the attention & it's feeding her delusional fantasies.

All this to say, I think the family - her mom in particular - are really desperate to get through to her, & are using whatever they can with this show to help, but nothing works with the big, defiant toddler.

I agree with the poster who said they need to let her do her thing but watch carefully, get custody when she screws up, then watch more... Nicole, May, & the other babies Nicole will inevitably have with many other men will be a lifelong project for all of them.

3 hours ago, Suzywriter said:

In that case, there were definitely other options. If legality and deadlines forced them to finalize their contract on the same day as Ashley's birthday, then they could have had a civil ceremony to satisfy K-1 requirement, and had the public ceremony any day they chose. 

 

The bleary eyed buoy of a man is a hateful prick on all levels.

Absolutely- to all of it.

3 hours ago, CofCinci said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if David Poor promised his daughter that they would get together for her birthday — and then later planned his wedding on her birthday. 

I could definitely see him doing something like that but if it was supposed to be before the wedding, Ashley would've made sure she bitched about it at the wedding. She didn't say he had any plans for her. I'm still going with he passive aggressively planned it on her birthday even though there were other options, & knew it would further damage his chances of fixing the relationship with her. I commend his son for trying, but David Prick just wants his way & doesn't give a shit - he's most likely going to hurt him again too. They both need to "divorce" their dad & move on.

Edited December 20, 2017 by gonecrackers

[sasha206]

24 minutes ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

Mr. Guilfoyle was saying this same thing (about letting her sink or swim). 

You know, you have a point here and it came back to me when Nicole's sister was saying that if her husband had ever said to her once that he wasn't totally attracted to her, she wouldn't be married to him.

Nicole is used to being heard that she's unattractive so she accepts it. It's far from the worst thing she's heard. She wants to be shown off and adored because that never happens to her. And she smirks when she gets her way by using her child as a hostage because she finally does have that leverage. 

And the fact that she's attached herself to this guy who doesn't like her at all makes me sad. She accepts his words and not his actions because no one has ever demonstrated what acceptance looks like. 

 

I do still think she needs to be better for her. And for May. 

If she wants to be shown off and adored, that's not going to happen with the health conscious guy who has the six-pack abs.   And if you go back and rewatch their story on TLC, the only thing she ever says about Azan is that he's hot.  She paws at him.  She comments on his body and his abs.  So for someone who is  garnering sympathy because she's used to being considered unattractive, why is she not pursuing someone who is her similar body type?  I"m sure there are plenty of men of her body type that would be happy to pig out on on fries with her and feel like showing her off because even at her size,  she is actually kind of cute.   Instead, she wants six pack abs who she can control by dangling the carrot of coming to America over.  

It's hard for me to feel sorry for someone who is so busy chasing tail -- like Molly, like David --- that they are spending money and time on them that could be going to their children.  i'll be willing to bet David Poor has also heard he's unattractive all of his life.  Am I to feel sorry for him too?  All of them don't want their physical equivalent (although I think Luis is butt ugly).  They want someone either younger or hotter and someone they can control through coming to America.  I think they love the fact that they can't work for a while and are dependent on them for everything.  

[sasha206]

26 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I agree so much.  A man getting up on stage, admitting he has cheated twice then getting physical with a woman?  Hello?  Common sense, line one!

 

Right!  I am sure David Poor was constantly told he was unattractive growing up.  Does that give him license to fuck over his kids so he could chase after young women?  Should his family never question him ever?  Seems like a huge double standard with Nicole's actions versus a David Poor.   I'm sure both want the hottie out of their league so they can parade them around (see also Josh).  But the fact of the matter is if these two wanted actual love, instead of control, they could easily meet someone who is their physical equivalent here in the states and be present in their children's lives and NOT be taken advantage of.  They don't want their physical body types though.  So it's hard for me to feel bad because they are both fat and essentially unattractive (although I do think Nicole has a cute face and could be a pretty girl if she lost weight).

Nicole could easily get someone in America.  I'm a 50 year-old widow and I could lose 30 pounds.  You'd think my dating options would be very limited.  I haven't even gone to dating sites or apps but I've been asked out quite a bit by some attractive men.  If a 50 year-old can get men, Nicole could find someone, anyone, in Florida.

Edited December 20, 2017 by sasha206

[MrSmith]

18 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I agree that sending her flowers on her birthday would be thoughtful, I would find having flowers or a cake at a wedding she wasn't supposed to attend the height of passive aggressive asshattery.

Why would he have them at his wedding waiting for her? That just doesn't make any sense. Take the cake, flowers, and a card over to her house, wish her happy birthday, and spend a couple of hours with her. Even if he can't do it ON her birthday, if he just did this the day before, then she'd be a lot happier and it would show her that he does actually think about her at times when he doesn't need or want anything from her.

The idea of having the cake and flowers at his own wedding waiting for her to show up to claim them is just absurd nonsense.

[PinkFlamingo]

A lot of theories about what Chris' deal is so thought I would add my opinion. 

Chris might be the type of guy that has a tendency to pick up strays and is somewhat generous. He may have met David and thought he was kind of fun to drink with and David might have sold him with a sob story about "losing everything".  Chris may have benefitted some from having an unemployed friend that could do some under the table work including that Thailand gig. It is obvious that David is manipulative and probably continued to play Chris and it developed into a weird codependent relationship that Chris finds hard to break the cycle of after so long. Comments that Nikki makes made me think that David has a lot of tricks up his sleeve to keep this up, including when his card that was supposed to be used to buy the wedding dress didn't work and Nikki said that was so typically David. 

[Normades]

8 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

If she wants to be shown off and adored, that's not going to happen with the health conscious guy who has the six-pack abs.   And if you go back and rewatch their story on TLC, the only thing she ever says about Azan is that he's hot.  She paws at him.  She comments on his body and his abs.  So for someone who is  garnering sympathy because she's used to being considered unattractive, why is she not pursuing someone who is her similar body type?  I"m sure there are plenty of men of her body type that would be happy to pig out on on fries with her and feel like showing her off because even at her size,  she is actually kind of cute.   Instead, she wants six pack abs who she can control by dangling the carrot of coming to America over.  

It's hard for me to feel sorry for someone who is so busy chasing tail -- like Molly, like David --- that they are spending money and time on them that could be going to their children.  i'll be willing to bet David Poor has also heard he's unattractive all of his life.  Am I to feel sorry for him too?  All of them don't want their physical equivalent (although I think Luis is butt ugly).  They want someone either younger or hotter and someone they can control through coming to America.  I think they love the fact that they can't work for a while and are dependent on them for everything.  

You are right.  I wonder if Azan got hurt and couldn't work out and then gained a bunch of weight how Nicole would feel about him.  I don't think she'd be so eager to be around him then.

I also think her family needs to cut her off even though it will impact May negatively.  They need to keep a watch on May, but not enable this horrible behavior.  I think once Nicole has to really shoulder the responsibility of looking after her own child and supporting her, she might just be agreeable to sign over custody.  And please, please, for the love of all things holy, please do not allow Nicole to procreate again.  If she gets pregnant, they need to encourage adoption or some other option.  Actually they need to make sure she is on really good birth control.  I sincerely hope she does not drag another poor child into her bubble of manipulation and horror.  Of course, I'm sure she will.  I've seen it happen many times with people like her.

[guilfoyleatpp]

7 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

If she wants to be shown off and adored, that's not going to happen with the health conscious guy who has the six-pack abs.   And if you go back and rewatch their story on TLC, the only thing she ever says about Azan is that he's hot.  She paws at him.  She comments on his body and his abs.  So for someone who is  garnering sympathy because she's used to being considered unattractive, why is she not pursuing someone who is her similar body type?  I"m sure there are plenty of men of her body type that would be happy to pig out on on fries with her and feel like showing her off because even at her size,  she is actually kind of cute.   Instead, she wants six pack abs who she can control by dangling the carrot of coming to America over.  

It's hard for me to feel sorry for someone who is so busy chasing tail -- like Molly, like David --- that they are spending money and time on them that could be going to their children.  i'll be willing to bet David Poor has also heard he's unattractive all of his life.  Am I to feel sorry for him too?  All of them don't want their physical equivalent (although I think Luis is butt ugly).  They want someone either younger or hotter and someone they can control through coming to America.  I think they love the fact that they can't work for a while and are dependent on them for everything.  

I get what you're saying and it's logical. And I also think that if Nicole weren't so emotionally stunted she would be more attractive to others as a friend and a mate. When we met my husband had much more of the attractive standard body type than I did. He's very "hot." Women and men give him the "pretty girl" treatment on the regular. What I'm saying is that it's not a done deal that someone who is Nicole's build is going to only have good luck in love with someone of a similar build. 

I think she desperately craves the validation of an attractive man desiring her. And she doesn't see Azan as a real person with feelings and hopes. She only sees her own wants and needs. It could be that behavior has been modeled for her, or she could just be a narcissist. She whines and pouts about being uncomfortable and not getting attention because that is all she can see. She can't see that her mom is worried about her and May. She can't see that her behavior embarasses Azan. It's all about her and what she wants. And at this point, for whatever reason, she's a gaping maw of need. 

I'm not defending her at all. I am trying to understand her behavior in the context of the show, but like a lot of people on reality shows, she really needs to work on herself more. So much more.

[AZChristian]

11 minutes ago, Normades said:

I also think her family needs to cut her off even though it will impact May negatively.  They need to keep a watch on May, but not enable this horrible behavior. 

They could deliver healthy groceries!  We know Nicole wouldn't eat them, but there's hope for May to learn better eating habits if she's really hungry.

[Dobian]

2 hours ago, PinkFlamingo said:

A lot of theories about what Chris' deal is so thought I would add my opinion. 

Chris might be the type of guy that has a tendency to pick up strays and is somewhat generous. He may have met David and thought he was kind of fun to drink with and David might have sold him with a sob story about "losing everything".  Chris may have benefitted some from having an unemployed friend that could do some under the table work including that Thailand gig. It is obvious that David is manipulative and probably continued to play Chris and it developed into a weird codependent relationship that Chris finds hard to break the cycle of after so long. Comments that Nikki makes made me think that David has a lot of tricks up his sleeve to keep this up, including when his card that was supposed to be used to buy the wedding dress didn't work and Nikki said that was so typically David. 

David is a phony.  All of a sudden he's talking about this job in Asia he can go back to if he needs to.  What job?  Chris offers him a partnership in a restaurant.  Not a job managing the restaurant for a wage, a 50-50 partnership in the restaurant as Nikki even put it.  How does that work?  So Chris pays for a hundred percent of the startup capital but David gets fifty percent of the revenue?  That doesn't even make sense, and how would Nikki be okay with that?  And where does Chris get the money for all these ventures, buying abandoned fire houses here and restaurants there?  A lot of fishiness going on.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Dobian

[Palomar]

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 7:26 PM, PityFree said:

 What I hate most about Shaun is that she spends every single reunion show just opening up old wounds. I don’t want to see the old wounds opened up; I want to know what’s happened since the show and what their plans for the future are. I want an update. I don’t want to rehash the show I just spent an entire season watching!! Go away, Shaun!!!

Shaun is terrible as a host.  She doesn't seem to have a format, it is just free for all. Plus, as PITYFREE said, we want to know what has happened since the final show.  If we are suffering through this Tell All show, it means we already know about the other stuff.  She could refer to this stuff and ask what has transpired since.  Still don't understand how Molly accepted Luis back and if he IS really back.  She should have gotten an annulment. She knows this is not going to work. Would respect her more if she just moved on.

At least a JOB was mentioned in relation to David Poor.  It's been the elephant in the room the whole series.  Personally think that Nikki's brother is rude as hell and sometimes so is she.  I get she doesn't approve of her husband funding David but obviously he wants to for some odd reason.

I think David/Evelyn and Elizabeth/Andrei will be fine.

[AZChristian]

36 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

However, I found this next one downright shocking...Evelyn and the family band did NOT sing/perform at her wedding or reception.  I thought for sure that they would have taken that opportunity.

We don't know whether they performed . . . we just know it wasn't shown.  Maybe TLC put their foot down, given that all the speculation that they were doing this for publicity was out on the internet before the wedding.  My history includes participation in church groups like the one that Evelyn's family "ministers to."  I'd be willing to bet money that they performed at the reception.  JMO . . . but it's based on experience.

[Mrs. Hanson]

3 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

They could deliver healthy groceries!  We know Nicole wouldn't eat them, but there's hope for May to learn better eating habits if she's really hungry.

It pains me to see May (or other little kids) eating crap all the time.  This generation of kids is going to be shorter and fatter than their parents due to nutrition deficits.  

 

10 minutes ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

Nicole weren't so emotionally stunted she would be more attractive to others

Amen to this - you can take the prettiest girl out there and if she is a nagging pain and whiny all the time (Hello Nicole) it won't matter - it will shut down all attractiveness.  I have known plenty of guys who are not handsome at all but they have charisma, charm and personality and they have the ladies!!  So David Pour is a mystery to me as to how he attracted anyone at all - if he was nice to be around, fine, looks don't matter as much but dang he is straight up ODD.

[Jennifersdc]

4 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Because these are legitimate questions to ask.   Maybe not on national tv, but they still need to be asked.   It's clear that Nicole does not think ahead.   She wants what she wants when she wants it.   The future is some cloudy thing that will never happen.   Her family is trying to get her to think of these things rather than blunder ahead wreaking havoc.

She's not embarassed.   She's pissed they are making her think instead of just giving in to her demands.   

Seriously. Yes to this. I literally want to jump into the TV and shake the shit out of her when Nicole does the smirk/eye roll whenever her mother asks her a legitimate question. 

They’ve apparently been semi-bankrolling her nonsense for years. But that’s on them I guess. Is Nicole planning on moving Azan into her studio - formerly motel - now Section 8 housing? Humping away at her hardbody “soulmate” while May is sleeping 3’ away?

[gonecrackers]

2 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

We don't know whether they performed . . . we just know it wasn't shown.  Maybe TLC put their foot down, given that all the speculation that they were doing this for publicity was out on the internet before the wedding.  My history includes participation in church groups like the one that Evelyn's family "ministers to."  I'd be willing to bet money that they performed at the reception.  JMO . . . but it's based on experience.

And for this I am thankful.

[sasha206]

26 minutes ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

I get what you're saying and it's logical. And I also think that if Nicole weren't so emotionally stunted she would be more attractive to others as a friend and a mate. When we met my husband had much more of the attractive standard body type than I did. He's very "hot." Women and men give him the "pretty girl" treatment on the regular. What I'm saying is that it's not a done deal that someone who is Nicole's build is going to only have good luck in love with someone of a similar build. 

I think she desperately craves the validation of an attractive man desiring her. And she doesn't see Azan as a real person with feelings and hopes. She only sees her own wants and needs. It could be that behavior has been modeled for her, or she could just be a narcissist. She whines and pouts about being uncomfortable and not getting attention because that is all she can see. She can't see that her mom is worried about her and May. She can't see that her behavior embarasses Azan. It's all about her and what she wants. And at this point, for whatever reason, she's a gaping maw of need. 

I'm not defending her at all. I am trying to understand her behavior in the context of the show, but like a lot of people on reality shows, she really needs to work on herself more. So much more.

Of course, there are people that aren't as attractive as their mates.  But it's difficult to see what would be redeeming about Nicole to him except or the fastest ticket to America and the money she provides him.  What is there about Nicole that he would really be attracted to?  She disrespects his culture on a continual basis, is needy, is physically abusive, demands trust yet tells him she's cheated on him twice.  I'm sure being the fat girl all of her life, she does want to parade around the trophy boyfriend -- just like the unattractive men on this show parade around their younger women from other countries.  They each probably need to sit on a therapist's couch to get behind the psychology that has them buying mates to control.

14 minutes ago, Palomar said:

Personally think that Nikki's brother is rude as hell and sometimes so is she.  I get she doesn't approve of her husband funding David but obviously he wants to for some odd reason.

I think David/Evelyn and Elizabeth/Andrei will be fine.

I think Nikki has her own scam going with Chris.  She's not happy that David is taking money away from her own gold digging.  Although that's probably not a fair conclusion to reach; Chris isn't a bad looking guy but he doesn't seem all there to me either.

I think David/Evelyn will divorce in 5 years.  I think Elizabeth and Andrei will be fine as these two seem to actually know each other the best and seem to love each other the most.  I guess David and Evelyn are in love, but she's far too young and will eventually resent him I think.

Edited December 20, 2017 by sasha206

[gonecrackers]

3 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

So David Pour is a mystery to me as to how he attracted anyone at all - if he was nice to be around, fine, looks don't matter as much but dang he is straight up ODD.

Money (Chris'), & hopes of GC. Annie is doing what she needs to do. Nothing about her screams 'I'm in this for luuuuve' - to me anyway.

[AZChristian]

12 minutes ago, Palomar said:

At least a JOB was mentioned in relation to David Poor.  It's been the elephant in the room the whole series. 

If someone looked at me - and I was unemployed with no prospects - and said, "I'm opening a restaurant, and I want you to be a 50/50 partner" - I wouldn't need 2 seconds to say, "AWESOME!!!  THANK YOU!!!  Let's meet tomorrow and start planning for the opening."  No, David says, "Well you just mentioned this two days ago, and I need a job NOW.  This won't make any money for at least 6 months."  Really?  So instead of starting to invest "sweat equity" NOW, you want to hope for a job (other than wearing a stupid mascot costume in front of a storage facility).  So if David turns down Chris' offer to be a partner in the restaurant, in 6 months David will still not have a job (and now NO PARTNERSHIP).  And I'd think that Chris is seeing the partnership as an opportunity to continue giving David money NOW.  Nikki is NOT going to allow $1 to go to David if he turns down this real opportunity.  

[BeachyWave]

15 minutes ago, Jennifersdc said:

Humping away at her hardbody “soulmate” while May is sleeping 3’ away?

The flappy slappy suction-cuppy sound track for this scenario is nauseating.

[Mu Shu]

12 hours ago, Smart Grandma said:

Azan needs to get back online and find a normal woman.  He's looking for a wife, not a psycho child. Hopefully his family will keep this looney tunes episode under wraps.  

Azans problem is that he’s not viewed as marriage material in his home country.  Just as Aika and Annie aren’t.   Making a good marriage ( financially secure partner, socially accepted) takes money and stature in Arab countries and used to at least in Asian ones.  Long story short, Azan doesn’t come from a desirable family.  If he did, he’d be married.  So he’s stuck trying to hold his disgust down and con a woman with obvious issues.   He is a loser. 

[Toaster Strudel]

23 minutes ago, Dobian said:

So Christ pays for a hundred percent of the startup capital but David gets fifty percent of the revenue?

He has zero experience working in a restaurant, let alone running one. He'd probably clean out the bar shelves ever night.

16 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

But it's difficult to see what would be redeeming about Nicole to him except or the fastest ticket to America and the money she provides him.

After the tell all, I realize it's probably a lot about the money, now.

[Mrs. Hanson]

17 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

I think David/Evelyn and Elizabeth/Andrei will be fine.

I agree as David/Evelyn have a strong religious base that bonds them and E/Andrei just dig each other for the simple reason of digging each other.  

 

6 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

Azans problem is that he’s not viewed as marriage material in his home country

Interesting!!  I had not though of that!!!

[sasha206]

18 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

Money (Chris'), & hopes of GC. Annie is doing what she needs to do. Nothing about her screams 'I'm in this for luuuuve' - to me anyway.

Exactly!  Which made me laugh when she was very bold about Azan and how he treats Nicole.  I thought to myself, honey, you need to look in a mirror.  You are no better than Azan.

[alegtostandon]

On 12/19/2017 at 4:51 AM, millennium said:

I started hearing "Sisters" as soon as you wrote "White Christmas."   I watch it every year.   Some of the numbers have the worst lyrics in show biz history -- "Snow, I want to wash my hands, my face and hair with snow ..."  But I love it. 

Same here! I watch it every time it's on...yes, even if it's the next day! lol ? 

And speaking of "sisters", watching the segment now with "The Sister's".  They are so full of shit in this interview.  They were wanting to get a rise out of Andre & even stated that.  You can tell Andre has put them in their places & they are now backing off.

I cannot believe they showed that segment of Nicole being physically abusive to Azin & it was not discussed.  I could not stand the way she was talking to her mom. They came onto this show to discuss everything...not pick &, choose what Nicole wants to talk about. 

I am saying this next bit as as daughter, whose dad remarried...so a bit of a defense to Dough Boy David's daughter.  To sit there & listen to your dad say this is the happiest he's ever been in his life is so horribly hurtful.  It makes you feel as if you  your whole childhood & family means nothing.  

I cannot believe, Molly brought that idiot back into, her life!  

[sasha206]

1 minute ago, alegtostandon said:

I am saying this next bit as as daughter, whose dad remarried...so a bit of a defense to Dough Boy David's daughter.  To sit there & listen to your dad say this is the happiest he's ever been in his life is so horribly hurtful.  It makes you feel as if you  your whole childhood & family means nothing.  

Agreed.  He's obviously been a skirt chaser and boozer all of his life and hasn't changed one bit.  I'm sure when you are a kid with a dad like that, you just desperately want them to at some point turn around and say "I'm so sorry for being a shitty parent.  I love you and will do everything I can to show you this."  And for them to mean it.  Instead, I feel like she probably chased her father's love and ended up getting pregnant at 16 in the process.  He takes her to the OB/GYN a few times and figures he's done his job as a father and can now go skirt chase again.  The hurt that comes out shows me she's spent a lifetime being very low on her dad's list of priorities but is still hoping he is going to change and is still hurting that once again, he's consumed with ass.

[Arwen Evenstar]

On Luis, meerkats are far too cute. Hyena? The laughing crying noise at the strip club sounded like a hyena. Hyenas are opportunistic, so it fits. But, I’m going with eel.  Eels are slimy and have a mean streak. Luis is eely, VERY eely. He leaves behind a trail of slime like a slug. 

I love Latin men, but Luis is far from hot as far as I’m concerned. My husband looks like a cross between Raúl Julia, the actor who played Curro Jimenez (I never remember his name), and Javier Bardem.  But, that said, it’s more about personality , character, and charm  than looks.  Luis, doesn’t really have any of these. I was on his side until charm turned to smarm. Because I know Latinos who are chubby chasers and prefer older women, the age difference didn’t bother me too much, and the fact that he was attracted to her. Now, I think he’s  one slippery, slimy eel. 

[AZChristian]

3 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

On Luis, meerkats are far too cute. Hyena? The laughing crying noise at the strip club sounded like a hyena. Hyenas are opportunistic, so it fits. But, I’m going with eel.  Eels are slimy and have a mean streak. Luis is eely, VERY eely. He leaves behind a trail of slime like a slug. 

How about an anteater?  Between that tongue and this blurb from Wiki, I think we're getting close:

"Anteaters do not normally enter a territory of another anteater of the same sex, but males often enter the territory of associated females. When a territorial dispute occurs, they vocalize . . . "

Sounds like someone who works as a bartender in the DR and flirts with single ladies.  When he moves in with them, he tries to talk them to death.

[Gigglepuff]

I still think Josh is gross, but how did he end up being one of the few voices of reason on the tell all? Maybe I've gone soft or daft or something, but I actually felt bad for him when Aika said that she didn't know how if she'd stay with him if she weren't able to get pregnant. At 36 plus, that will never be a sure thing, hell, there are women in their 20s who struggle with fertility issues, so really, it's never a sure thing, so you'd think she'd at some point have to accept that it may never happen. 

I actually, liked Evil-lyn and David Spain. I can't believe I just said that. Getting married at 18 was not for me, I was a total adventurer, but hey, everyone's different and it takes all kinds, right? Aside from the Virginia vs. Claremont thing, those two seem to have the same outlook and goals in life, so good for them and I hope it works out. 

Andrei and Elizabeth will be fine. Her sisters and sister in law are still horrible, I'm glad that neither Libby nor Andrei kow to them or her father. 

David Poor is a loser, I'm on the fence with Annie. I like her, but David is only a means to an end. I understand Ashley's anger at her dad, but I think she took it a bit too far with the whole getting married on her birthday bit.  I'm cutting her some slack though because I have a deadbeat dad who prioritized his "second family" over me, my brother and his responsibilities to us. Chris and Nikki are shady, but Nikki was 100% right when she said that David won't cheat on Annie in the U.S. since no women there will be interested in him. Harsh, but probably correct. 

Molly is pathetic. She wanted a boy toy and well, now she's got one. 

Nicole is a pathetic loser and even though I can't stand her, I'm not on her family's side either. Yes her mom wants Nicole to grow up and take responsibility, but she still views Nicole as the pathetic little victim. Nicole is dumb as an ox but also as headstrong as one. Call her bluff and cut her off, I say. Let her threaten to move to Morocco, it's never going to happen anyway. A North American can only stay there for up to three months without a visa, so good luck Nicole! Nicole's treated like crap by her family, yet they all indulge her. Her sister babysat May during the first visit to Morocco, the dad was willing to co-sponsor Azan, her mom treats her like a child and is way too involved in her adult daughter's business. Who looks after May while Nicole is at work or off doing whatever Nicole does? If it's grandma, she should stop. Nicole would then have to pay for daycare which would cut into her Morocco fund. The babysitting and co-sponsoring would all be very different in my opinion if Nicole were a mature, responsible young woman who say, met Azan while they were in college together somewhere or something, but no, she's a giant toddler who wants what she wants while shirking her responsibilities. 

[Normades]

7 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

On Luis, meerkats are far too cute. Hyena? The laughing crying noise at the strip club sounded like a hyena. Hyenas are opportunistic, so it fits. But, I’m going with eel.  Eels are slimy and have a mean streak. Luis is eely, VERY eely. He leaves behind a trail of slime like a slug. 

I love Latin men, but Luis is far from hot as far as I’m concerned. My husband looks like a cross between Raúl Julia, the actor who played Curro Jimenez (I never remember his name), and Javier Bardem.  But, that said, it’s more about personality , character, and charm  than looks.  Luis, doesn’t really have any of these. I was on his side until charm turned to smarm. Because I know Latinos who are chubby chasers and prefer older women, the age difference didn’t bother me too much, and the fact that he was attracted to her. Now, I think he’s  one slippery, slimy eel. 

If  you don't mind me saying it, your husband sounds yummy!  I loved Raul Julia.  We lost him way too soon.  I agree on Luis, he is not attractive to me at all, even before his slimy behavior.

[funky-rat]

18 hours ago, Cherrio said:

I was kidding. :)   Fraaaid rice for everyone!

I watch these shows, I don't know why and I close my eyes a lot during many scenes.

I know you were kidding.  : )  I just had such a horrible experience that I can't stand to watch those kind of shows.

18 hours ago, Adeejay said:

I don't buy what Molly is selling.  I distinctively remember the conversation Luis had with her brother about wanting to return to the DR.  I believe he started to get restless, so in order to appease him, she suggested that they get married right away, and have a big celebration later.  Hence, his lack of interest in "planning a wedding."  In New York State, you have to get the license, plus blood tests, then wait a few days for the results, so, there is no way you can say, "oops, we signed some papers and now we are married." 

We used to have blood tests and a waiting period here.  I believe the blood tests were done away with.  Insurance wouldn't pay for them, and I remember us trying to use blood work my husband had a few weeks earlier to get it waived off, and the doctor rather bluntly looked at him and said "No, that blood test was for "X" (can't recall what it was).  Commonwealth of PA requires these blood tests to be sure you're free of STD's, so drop 'em! (his pants - men also had to have a "visual" inspection)."

17 hours ago, Porkchop said:

I can't believe I might spend three hours tonight watching the Abominable Toddler and her reluctant suitor.

That show went straight to "delete" on the DVR.  I noped right out of it.

14 hours ago, Desert Rat said:

Jazz is hard to watch because she is severely depressed, which makes her very unlikable. Her parents seem to ignore her mental health issues.  But even the mom suffers from severe depression. I can't snark at that level of mental instability. 

I can't either.  I deal enough with that in the real world.  So that would explain why I just couldn't watch it - I never got enough in to it to pick up on that.

11 hours ago, Suzywriter said:

Am I the only one who sees that Nicole has no one? Her family never says anything nice to her. Like, never. Every word said to her is critical, mean, and demands that she justify her every breath. They constantly throw her past choices in her face, borrow trouble and then judge her about it. "What if this happens? How will you support yourself? What if he won't get a job? This is the second man you told May to call daddy. How much money did you send him? Are you ready to live with that for the rest of your life?" Even her teen brother thought it was his place to start telling her how to live her life.

Nicole always looks hurt and embarrassed while they emotionally beat her.

With family like that, does anyone wonder why Nicole jumped at the first man who showed her some kindness? Nobody in Nicole's family ever even smiles at her. They greet her with dire predictions disguised as concern. It's vicious.

They are full of eye-rolling snark, and constantly use her to make themselves feel superior. I wanted to kick them all.

 

11 hours ago, rideashire said:

I see what you mean. This whole family is sort of caught in that cycle and no one can break out of it. They are constantly scolding her and talking down to her, but she is also constantly doing stupid shit and making poor life choices...which maybe she does in part because her family is relentless....but they are relentless because she's fucking up so hard...and so on.

They all need therapy and not a reality show.  I think her family's heart is in the right place and it has to be incredibly difficult to watch Nicole go down such an expensive and dangerous path and drag May with her.

 

4 hours ago, Suzywriter said:

It's not up to them to 'try to get her to think' of anything by constantly tearing her down and 'what if'-ing. The superior 'I'm just trying to help' excuse for being mean doesn't justify the way that Robbalee and her branch of the family never say anything nice or show any enthusiasm for anything about Nicole.  There is never even 'It's good to see you!" or "Oh, you look nice today! What a pretty outfit!" The unsmiling disapproval and unnecessary opinions from mom, stepdad, sister and brother is hard to watch.

The bottom line is that her family does not like her. The whining and demanding is her way of trying to matter to them. It just feeds the cycle of emotional abuse.

If they really wanted to 'help', they would be telling her "It's great how you work so hard to support your child" and "You are so brave to go to a new country alone!", even if they don't approve. Instead, they enable, and treat her as though every encounter is their one chance to save her from herself by framing their fear and disapproval as something she did wrong. After all, "what if"?? 

It's her life. They have every right to not participate in her shenanegans, but they don't have to be so critical and mean.  Does never smiling and making up stuff to worry about ("Anything can happen to you in a foriegn country!") benefit Nicole or May? Nope. It just keeps them feeling like whatever they do is wrong.

I mentioned this a few weeks ago.  I do feel a bit of sympathy for her.  Her family doesn't always treat her well (I'm not debating whether it's deserved or not - that's subjective as none of us know her complete story), and she reminds me of a few people I know who have family members that constantly remind her of past mistakes, and who will always let her know that she's not doing things "right", etc, whether she needs to hear it or not.  Eventually, she just sticks her fingers in her ears and does the "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" thing.  I also believe her mother is a "Smother Mother", constantly in her stuff, constantly trying to force things to go the way she feels they should go (again, not debating whether it's deserved or not).  I've dealt with this myself in my life from my own mother with regard to certain things, and my response was to grab what I felt was control over certain things at any cost, whether it was good or not.  They need to back off, let her sink or swim on her own, and stop enabling her.  I realize she has a kid, and her parents should keep an eye, but at a distance.  She may surprise them. Then again, she may not, but they need to ease up a bit.  It sealed it for me when her 15 year old brother (I believe that's his age) lectured her like he was her parent (which he's not), and no adult there stepped up and said "OK - let it go" (at least that I saw - I admit to dozing during this portion).

3 hours ago, JennyMominFL said:

Finally , in the last episode of the season, I realized who Evelyn reminds me of. Nancy Kerrigan

I thought she looks like Meryl Davis - Olympic Ice Dance champion.

 

[Mrs. Hanson]

11 minutes ago, Normades said:

If  you don't mind me saying it, your husband sounds yummy!  I loved Raul Julia.  We lost him way too soon.  I agree on Luis, he is not attractive to me at all, even before his slimy behavior.

I agree - he sounds fine.  Luis was never attractive to me and after the the "You crazy, you owl worshipping woman!" tirade I was like oh the hell to the no.  My hubby?  Not Latin, (100% Scandanavian in ancestry) but he is six foot seven, loves me, loves my kids and damn if he doesn't make me belly laugh every. Damn. Day.  

 

16 minutes ago, Gigglepuff said:

Call her bluff and cut her off, I say. Let her threaten to move to Morocco, it's never going to happen anyway. A North American can only stay there for up to three months without a visa, so good luck Nicole!

Per Nicole - yep I agree.  Let me help you pack.

[sasha206]

32 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

On Luis, meerkats are far too cute. Hyena? The laughing crying noise at the strip club sounded like a hyena. Hyenas are opportunistic, so it fits. But, I’m going with eel.  Eels are slimy and have a mean streak. Luis is eely, VERY eely. He leaves behind a trail of slime like a slug. 

I love Latin men, but Luis is far from hot as far as I’m concerned. My husband looks like a cross between Raúl Julia, the actor who played Curro Jimenez (I never remember his name), and Javier Bardem.  But, that said, it’s more about personality , character, and charm  than looks.  Luis, doesn’t really have any of these. I was on his side until charm turned to smarm. Because I know Latinos who are chubby chasers and prefer older women, the age difference didn’t bother me too much, and the fact that he was attracted to her. Now, I think he’s  one slippery, slimy eel. 

Excuse me while I fantasize about your husband.  :)

I agree with Luis.  I think he's actually ugly.  And he doesn't appear to be sporting the six pack that makes Azan hot.  So it's a mystery to me why Molly couldn't find someone here better looking than Luis that would be more than happy to be a step dad and live in her house without being a dick about it.  Molly's voice is incredibly irritating but I do think when she's all made up, she's a very pretty woman.  She'd be a stunner if she lost a bit of weight.

[biakbiak]

5 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

Commonwealth of PA requires these blood tests to be sure you're free of STD's, so drop 'em! (his pants - men also had to have a "visual" inspection)."

They abolished both of those requirements 20 years ago. http://articles.mcall.com/1997-08-10/news/3160252_1_blood-tests-couples-new-jersey, NJ has since abolished that rule as well. Montana was the last state that required tests for women only but now you can both sign an informed consent waiver if you don't want to do it.

I hope this is the last we see of Nicole and Azan but I know it's not. I find both of them awful in different ways.

[Normades]

4 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Excuse me while I fantasize about your husband.  :)

I agree with Luis.  I think he's actually ugly.  And he doesn't appear to be sporting the six pack that makes Azan hot.  So it's a mystery to me why Molly couldn't find someone here better looking than Luis that would be more than happy to be a step dad and live in her house without being a dick about it.  Molly's voice is incredibly irritating but I do think when she's all made up, she's a very pretty woman.  She'd be a stunner if she lost a bit of weight.

Now I'm thinking that Molly should have gone to Morocco and hooked up with Azan.  I think he's better looking and seemed far kinder to May than Luis has ever been to Molly's children.  I think he would appreciate the life she could give him and she might even make an effort to respect his culture.  Too bad they both missed the boat!

[tincansailor981]

16 hours ago, PityFree said:

Ugh.  I lasted five minutes of watching the Nicole show.

That's five minutes longer than i watched that shit show. 

[Mrs. Hanson]

2 minutes ago, tincansailor981 said:

That's five minutes longer than i watched that shit show. 

Last night my husband says, "Hey!  They are both on for three hours!!"  I was like, ugh, because:

 

11 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

I find both of them awful in different ways

[CoachWristletJen]

12 hours ago, Suzywriter said:

Am I the only one who sees that Nicole has no one? Her family never says anything nice to her. Like, never. Every word said to her is critical, mean, and demands that she justify her every breath. They constantly throw her past choices in her face, borrow trouble and then judge her about it. "What if this happens? How will you support yourself? What if he won't get a job? This is the second man you told May to call daddy. How much money did you send him? Are you ready to live with that for the rest of your life?" Even her teen brother thought it was his place to start telling her how to live her life.

 

Nicole always looks hurt and embarrassed while they emotionally beat her.

 

With family like that, does anyone wonder why Nicole jumped at the first man who showed her some kindness? Nobody in Nicole's family ever even smiles at her. They greet her with dire predictions disguised as concern. It's vicious.

 

They are full of eye-rolling snark, and constantly use her to make themselves feel superior. I wanted to kick them all.

Absolutely right!

That being said, I'm starting to wonder if perhaps Nicole had serious developmental delays that went undiagnosed. At the risk of sounding judgmental, a child her age SHOULD have been diagnosed if the parents were paying attention!

When a child has delays, sensory-motor integration problems, whatever it is, it's up to the parents to find out what those are, and learn how to parent differently. It's highly rare to not have more than one teacher along the line make that suggestion, usually as early as kindergarten, where the child's struggles will make him or her a standout.

Maybe all Nicole's parents ever did was learn to express criticism and frustration with her behaviors. (And, if a child has problems with impulse control, it's not easy. However, given a calm environment, they can achieve wonders and find a meaningful place in society. A good job where they don't punch the boss in the face, etc.)

Sadly, now Nicole is an adult. It's not "too late" if she wants help instead of D.  Seems like the family has given up on her and circled their wagons around May although they've yet to really help May in a meaningful way other than extended babysitting, which can actually be good if it keeps Mommy's frustration level down.

Now Grandma is looking at this helpless child in the hands of the daughter she's created, and her negative behaviors have escalated. I don't think we've even seen the cruelest of Grandma's behaviors on TV. That just occurred to me.

Calling Dr. Phil! There's an emergency! Come right away! (Doesn't work. His name doesn't rhyme with Bombay.)

[lovesnark]

Do we have any folks here familiar with immigration to Morocco? I don't think the Abominable Toddler would be able to just up and move there, would she? I'd think she'd have to show that she was able to support herself in some way and I don't think there is a Starbucks on every corner in Marrakesh. If Azan hasn't been able to land another job, I doubt Nicole could find one.

[CoachWristletJen]

Annie's a pistol! I say YOU GO GIRL!

She's swimming with the sharks, and she's got a fine set of teeth herself.

LOVE IT.

David Pour, I hope she wears you down to your last nerve. 

Maybe Annie does work as a stripper. Maybe she doesn't mind it because it's not as bad as her old job. She'll have to work the day shift at one of the lesser clubs, but maybe she enjoys all of the $$$ and the fact that she can keep it all herself! Maybe she learns to swim with the female sharks and they give her good advice.

This is just me daydreaming, but I'd love to see her eventually grab the reigns of that marriage, you know, keep her hands on the vodka, dispense it to David Poor and keep him controlled like a circus animal.

I just hope he doesn't get drunk and fall down those spiral stairs.

[biakbiak]

24 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

Do we have any folks here familiar with immigration to Morocco? I don't think the Abominable Toddler would be able to just up and move there, would she? I'd think she'd have to show that she was able to support herself in some way and I don't think there is a Starbucks on every corner in Marrakesh. If Azan hasn't been able to land another job, I doubt Nicole could find one.

Yes, they would have to show that between the two of them could support themselves, though obviously that number is a lot lower in Morocco than in the US and then she could get a residency permit that would allow her to stay longer than the 90 days of a tourust visa and also work. 

I don't think I buy that Azan is unable to find a job, I think he is unwilling to find a job and doesn't need one because Nicole sends him money. 

Edited December 20, 2017 by biakbiak

[funky-rat]

34 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

They abolished both of those requirements 20 years ago. http://articles.mcall.com/1997-08-10/news/3160252_1_blood-tests-couples-new-jersey, NJ has since abolished that rule as well. Montana was the last state that required tests for women only but now you can both sign an informed consent waiver if you don't want to do it.

We got married in 1994.  I thought I had heard that it was done, but I wasn't sure.  It was embarrassing, so I'm glad it's gone.

1 hour ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

I love Latin men, but Luis is far from hot as far as I’m concerned. My husband looks like a cross between Raúl Julia, the actor who played Curro Jimenez (I never remember his name), and Javier Bardem.  But, that 

And Gomez Addams!  Loved him in those movies.

7 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

I don't think I buy that Azan is unable to find a job, I think he is unwilling to find a job and doesn't need one because Nicole sends him money. 

BINGO.  The minute he said "I lost my job and it was all her fault", I saw the writing on the wall.

[sasha206]

33 minutes ago, CoachWristletJen said:

. Maybe Annie does work as a stripper. Maybe she doesn't mind it because it's not as bad as her old job. She'll have to work the day shift at one of the lesser clubs, but maybe she enjoys all of the $$$ and the fact that she can keep it all herself! Maybe she learns to swim with the female sharks and they give her good advice.

She looks a little too doughy to me to be a stripper!  I think that's why she had to align herself with David.  By Thai standards, she's not that cute.  Growing up, I had a Thai neighbor.  He and his American wife threw a lot of parties that my mom and I would go to where everyone but the three of us were Thai.  The women were flat out gorgeous.  We'd go to a lot of Thai festivals also and again by and large, the Thai women were just beautiful.

[magemaud]

6 hours ago, merylinkid said:

It's clear that Nicole does not think ahead. 

She even admitted it! At the restaurant, when her mother asked her how she was going to support three people on her part time salary her reply was, "I can't (pause to lick fingers) think that far ahead (again lick fingers)" and her mother said, "You're just going to 'wing it'?" and Nicole's responded "Yeah." "You have a baby" and Nicole shrugs, then it cuts to a TH she said, "I'm still working out like, the details about what's going to happen when Azan gets here. Maybe I'll have to work harder before he gets here to have a stable job so I can do both, you know?" Doesn't exactly inspire confidence given her track record...

Edited December 20, 2017 by magemaud
edited to clarify conversation

[sasha206]

47 minutes ago, CoachWristletJen said:

Absolutely right!

That being said, I'm starting to wonder if perhaps Nicole had serious developmental delays that went undiagnosed. At the risk of sounding judgmental, a child her age SHOULD have been diagnosed if the parents were paying attention!

When a child has delays, sensory-motor integration problems, whatever it is, it's up to the parents to find out what those are, and learn how to parent differently. It's highly rare to not have more than one teacher along the line make that suggestion, usually as early as kindergarten, where the child's struggles will make him or her a standout.

Maybe all Nicole's parents ever did was learn to express criticism and frustration with her behaviors. (And, if a child has problems with impulse control, it's not easy. However, given a calm environment, they can achieve wonders and find a meaningful place in society. A good job where they don't punch the boss in the face, etc.)

Sadly, now Nicole is an adult. It's not "too late" if she wants help instead of D.  Seems like the family has given up on her and circled their wagons around May although they've yet to really help May in a meaningful way other than extended babysitting, which can actually be good if it keeps Mommy's frustration level down.

Now Grandma is looking at this helpless child in the hands of the daughter she's created, and her negative behaviors have escalated. I don't think we've even seen the cruelest of Grandma's behaviors on TV. That just occurred to me.

Calling Dr. Phil! There's an emergency! Come right away! (Doesn't work. His name doesn't rhyme with Bombay.)

I'm just missing where her family has been overly critical of her.  Her actions yes.  But her actions include having Mae call two different fleeting fuckmates of Nicole's "daddy."  How are they supposed to respond to this and her paying someone who clearly doesn't love her?  What are they supposed to say when she comes back talking about how the trip didn't go as planned, how Azan said he's not attracted to her, but I'm sending him money anyway?  If anything, it seems like they've coddled her and allowed her to make very impulsive decisions.  I mean, we're supposed to believe that her dad is actually sponsoring Mae's latest daddy for goodness sake (I personally think TLC pays).  If anything, this family whom she uses for financial support, needs to become more critical and stop enabling her to make impulsive decisions.

Edited December 20, 2017 by sasha206

[Mrs. Hanson]

4 minutes ago, magemaud said:

She even admitted it! At the restaurant, when her mother asked her how she was going to support three people on her part time salary her reply was, "I can't (pause to lick fingers) think that far ahead (again lick fingers)" and then in her TH she said something about "something will work out." Doesn't exactly inspire confidence given her track record...

Her licking her fingers was so gross.  Use a napkin woman.  You have a child and you can't think ahead?  Better start trying to think ahead.

3 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

If anything, it seems like they've coddled her and allowed her to make very impulsive decisions.

I agree with the poster who said Nicole probably never had much in the looks or personality department (at least what we can see) but now she has May and now she has a carrot.  She is using that as far as she can go.   I want someone, anyone, the server at Chili's to say WAKE UP WOMAN!!!  I am a special ed teacher and she so reminds me of the student who fails everything despite all the supports and modifications to the rigor yet insists she is going to college to be a vet.  But can't volunteer at the humane society as it "is too sad" and can't work at Petco part time because, "it is, like, hard."

 

48 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

Abominable Toddler

This still cracks me up.

[sasha206]

Just now, Mrs. Hanson said:

I agree with the poster who said Nicole probably never had much in the looks or personality department (at least what we can see) but now she has May and now she has a carrot.  She is using that as far as she can go.   I want someone, anyone, the server at Chili's to say WAKE UP WOMAN!!!  I am a special ed teacher and she so reminds me of the student who fails everything despite all the supports and modifications to the rigor yet insists she is going to college to be a vet.  But can't volunteer at the humane society as it "is too sad" and can't work at Petco part time because, "it is, like, hard."

 

Agreed!

I think she's just a very unmotivated, lazy person who probably never had to anything because of parental guilt.  I am not sure what parental guilt involves.  Maybe the divorce was hard on Nicole and they over compensated.  But based on the way she reacted to Azan and his reasonable requests to respect his family, respect his culture, shows me this is a woman who has never actually been overly criticized and rarely if ever heard the words "no" from her family.  And now they are reaping what they sowed and at least a few of them in the family are trying to shake some sense in her, failing at it.

[magemaud]

8 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

but now she has May and now she has a carrot. 

I'll bet she wants to add more carrots to that bunch and plans to get pregnant immediately if and when Azan arrives in the US. Especially after her efforts were thwarted in Morocco by Auntie Azan. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, Normades said:

If  you don't mind me saying it, your husband sounds yummy!  I loved Raul Julia.  We lost him way too soon.  I agree on Luis, he is not attractive to me at all, even before his slimy behavior.

Thank you.  ?He’s totes yummy, but more importantly, he’s an absolute sweetheart.  He is loving and caring and supportive and drives me to my appointments and treatments. I had 9 cycles of chemo and he stayed with me the whole time. Even the nurses commented on his devotion. I’m totally blessed. Ex-husband Arwen was a shit heel of the first water. 

[Horrified]

5 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

She reminds me of Anne Hathaway.

I thought Meghan from MadMen