Season 5 Discussion

[merylinkid]

4 hours ago, Kareem said:

ike Aika, when asked what kind of ring I liked, I mentioned the heart shape.  I wanted a little one and was given a big one along with a lecture from the jeweler that that shape doesn't show the brilliance of the stone as well as other cuts...  

I would have told the jeweler to go screw himself.   You were buying a ring that YOU wanted to wear.   Not a ring to show off the brilliance of the cuts.   Then when I was done telling him off, I would have gone to a jeweler who listened to what I wanted rather than lecturing me.  

[Mrs. Hanson]

On 12/20/2017 at 11:11 AM, Mrs. Hanson said:

Call her bluff and cut her off, I say. Let her threaten to move to Morocco, it's never going to happen anyway. A North American can only stay there for up to three months without a visa, so good luck Nicole!

You know what this stuff reminds me of?  Little kids threatening to run away when they are five!!  Didn't anyone see the Andy Griffith show when Opie did this?  Andy helped him pack and pointed where to go, and where he could stay and to stay in touch.  It was hysterical.  Poor Opie was like, Huh?  Robbalee....take note.  Your 21 year old is acting like a child.

Edited to add:  Per Azan's concern for Nicole's weight:  It is her problem, not his.  He needs to butt out.  As someone who has struggled with her weight and is now at a good weight, I speak from experience.  This summer I was on a weight loss diet to fit into my wedding dress (and I just wanted to lose more weight) and my then fiance was all, "Do you want to go on a walk?  I can get you up at 5 to go on a three mile hike!"  I was like:  Shut. It.  It just wore me down as he can't be in control of that and I don't want him to be in control of it.  I said, upfront, stop it - it is grating on me in a very bad way.  And he did.  At least my man was coming from a place of "Hey you said you wanted to lose weight!"  not "OMG I am embarrassed by you" which is the vibe Azan sends.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Mrs. Hanson

[DangerousMinds]

Yes, I agree that Evelyn gets somewhat of a pass because she is thin and "pretty."

[sasha206]

3 hours ago, tincansailor981 said:

Saw this guy's mug shot  and immediately thought it was the Dominican Lizard.  Turns out it's a different turd.  http://wgno.com/2017/12/22/jpso-arrest-made-in-lakeside-hit-and-run-that-left-a-womans-skull-fractured/

Wow, that's uncanny!  

[KateHearts]

2 hours ago, marionette said:

I think Olivia was in on it, as well as the brother. 

I thought that, too, when Olivia was saying, "who's more important to you, him or your kids?" and she had a little smile on her face, like she was having trouble staying in character.

[sasha206]

1 hour ago, Katie111 said:

I think Nicole is awful but I also think Evelyn seems to get a pass on these forums because she is skinny and pretty. She also has no marketable skills and zero plans for her future beyond being a housewife and living in Claremont forever.  Her answer to supporting herself is that "God will take care of them".  WTF?  David apparently has a degree but what is he going to do with that in Claremont?  Clearly they are living off of her parents (and maybe his as well).  I also think their relationship is borderline pedophile.  She had to have been 17 when they met. They are the same age difference as Luis and Olivia.  And I found David very smug to everyone else at the tell all.  As if they were better than everyone else there.  

I don't see this.  Numerous postings about her, with the nickname "Evil-lyn."  She's been routinely criticized for being a fundie, for being irritating, for being self-centered, for being an idiot. The age difference between her and David Spain has been talked about quite a bit.   The only difference I see here is that she doesn't have a small child and most of the Nicole anger is centered on what she's doing to May.   The only reason Nicole's weight is an issue here is because this, along with no other apparent redeeming values, makes it seem impossible to believe that Azan loves her.  Her weight is clearly an issue with Azan.   

Edited December 23, 2017 by sasha206

[zoemom]

On 12/22/2017 at 11:12 AM, MrSmith said:

Oh, she's definitely heavier. Noticeably so. I would hazard to guess that she's gained 50 to 100 pounds since we saw her on Before the 90 Days. What's worse, to me, is that she delights in the weight she's gained because of the consternation and tension is causes with Azan and with her own family.

I wouldn't be surprised if Nicole ( After watching her "performance" throughout the season and during the tell all), I think she's really beginning to enjoy being a reality TV "star".  I could see her little pea size brain hoping if things "don't work out" with Azan she might be able to get TLC to hook her up with a stint on My 600 lb. Life.  As I mentioned upthread, I'd love seeing Nicole try using her b.s excuses with Dr. Now.  She wouldn't last five minutes and she'd probably end up like the infamous James ("my leg!") and/or Penny. 

On 12/22/2017 at 0:30 PM, MrSmith said:

I think it's time to let Nicole sink or swim entirely on her own. When she starts to sink and her sinking portends bad things happening to May, that's when you step in with Child Protective Services and start suing for custody of the child. You can make sure that bad things don't happen to May and still make sure that Nicole suffers the consequences of her poor choices until she learns to make better choices.

Although I'm not sure if she's ready for this, its time for Robbalee to start the process to sue for custody of May.  I realize it would be difficult to start over with a 3 year old (I get the impression she already is doing a lot of her day to day care) May is her grandchild. 

 I'm sorry, I don't see Nicole's behavior changing any time soon.  Robbalee needs to take a lesson from Barbara Evans playbook (Jenelle's mother from 16 and Pregnant andTeen Mom 2) who ended up suing and winning custody of Janelle's first child, Jace.   While I haven't seen any evidence that Nicole is is involved in drug/alcohol abuse like Janelle (who at 25 already has had three kids with three different fathers), there are many similarities - Jenelle exhibits poor decision making (ever hear of birth control?) skills and has never shown her mom any type of respect and is one of the most passive aggressive and manipulative person I've ever seen.  

Edited December 23, 2017 by zoemom
mah leg!! mah leg!!!!!

[TwirlyGirly]

3 hours ago, Katie111 said:

I think Nicole is awful but I also think Evelyn seems to get a pass on these forums because she is skinny and pretty. She also has no marketable skills and zero plans for her future beyond being a housewife and living in Claremont forever.  Her answer to supporting herself is that "God will take care of them".  WTF?  David apparently has a degree but what is he going to do with that in Claremont?  Clearly they are living off of her parents (and maybe his as well).  I also think their relationship is borderline pedophile.  She had to have been 17 when they met. They are the same age difference as Luis and Olivia.  And I found David very smug to everyone else at the tell all.  As if they were better than everyone else there.  

Just as an FYI, because I've seen multiple posts in the current 90 Day Fiance topics saying the age difference between Evelyn and David Spain combined with Evelyn's age at the time David first contacted him is close to being pedophilia - it's not.

Pedophilia is a psychological disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children (age 10 or younger).

Hebephilia and ephebophilia are sexual preferences for pubescent (age 11- 14) and post-pubescent (age 15 -16) youths, respectively.

I think we should all be cautious in our use of the "pedophile" label, because that implies the individual is attracted to pre-pubescent children. Evelyn was 15 when David first contacted her - definitely NOT a "prepubescent child".

Edited December 23, 2017 by TwirlyGirly
Added link

[DangerousMinds]

As someone who has worked in social services, I have seen no reason why Child Protective Services would step in regarding May. They have very serious cases to deal with and this is not one.

[Frozendiva]

4 hours ago, Katie111 said:

I think Nicole is awful but I also think Evelyn seems to get a pass on these forums because she is skinny and pretty. She also has no marketable skills and zero plans for her future beyond being a housewife and living in Claremont forever.  Her answer to supporting herself is that "God will take care of them".  WTF?  David apparently has a degree but what is he going to do with that in Claremont?  Clearly they are living off of her parents (and maybe his as well).  I also think their relationship is borderline pedophile.  She had to have been 17 when they met. They are the same age difference as Luis and Olivia.  And I found David very smug to everyone else at the tell all.  As if they were better than everyone else there.  

There are a lot of Evelyn types around.  Maybe God will take care of her. God did give free will for her to do things, make mistakes and learn from them. There are a number of women I know who are waiting to find the rich husband and then move to the mansion. Many are working temp or in low end jobs. I ask about Plan B all the time. I wish that they do find the rich dude and live the fairy tale, but I ask what happens if he loses his job, has an accident, gets sick, beat them/abuses them, leaves them for another woman or man. Many of these girls have no desire to get a skill that they will always have, and if need be, support themselves and be independent. Evelyn may have a very rude awakening and massive comedown somewhere down the line -  when God gives her a challenge.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Frozendiva
typo

[lezlers]

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 6:08 AM, poeticlicensed said:

 

Speaking of the bridal shop, if that dress Annie picked out only cost 318 (including tax), I'll eat my hat. That looked easily like a thousand dollar dress. What kind of games is TLC playing?

I wasn't surprised at the price.  It looked like a lower end bridal shop.  My wedding gown was nicer than that (and had beading, where Annie's didn't) and was $250.   I took the floor sample.  Boom, baby.  Spending thousands of dollars on a dress you're going to wear for a few hours at most is stupid.

[Kareem]

3 hours ago, merylinkid said:

I would have told the jeweler to go screw himself.   You were buying a ring that YOU wanted to wear.   Not a ring to show off the brilliance of the cuts.   Then when I was done telling him off, I would have gone to a jeweler who listened to what I wanted rather than lecturing me.  

Oh no, it wasn't all that serious. I spoke to a jeweler when I went in to have it steamed long after we became engaged. I didn't choose the stone but was curious why I hadn't seen a lot of them around and so he explained, and it made sense. I like it and am so very grateful for it but I get it. I mentioned it only because I was surprised Aika was hoping for a heart.  

[Mrs. Hanson]

3 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

As someone who has worked in social services, I have seen no reason why Child Protective Services would step in regarding May. They have very serious cases to deal with and this is not one.

I agree - sped teacher here and we have a social worker on staff and we have gone over what it takes to remove a child and sadly Nicole does not come close to meeting the standards for neglect, at least in MN.  I am sure they are similar to Florida but May seems fed, does not hoard food nor steals food, clothed correctly for the season, clean hair, has someone to watch her/adequate supervision, seems bathed and hygienic.  No fan of Nicole, I actually find her to be a hosebeast.  But so far, no neglect worthy of CPS.  In fact more nitpick I have of her was in belittling Azan over not knowing how to put in a carseat.  How the hell would he know that?  

Edited December 23, 2017 by Mrs. Hanson

[jpagan05]

On 12/19/2017 at 11:30 AM, Christi said:

Well I would be pissed if my douchebag father was gone for four years, then plans his wedding on my birthday!  At leaset he could have had a small cake and flowers for her, and made a little speech or something...5 minutes out of your life, but just something to show that he was thinking about her, and that she is important too.  its not like David would be paying for it anyway...showing a bit of thoughtfulness to your kid would go a long way.  He kept saying that day was about Him and wifey...thats messed up when its your kids birthday, and you keep calling her to come to the stupid wedding

 

On 12/19/2017 at 11:37 AM, Christi said:

it would have been easy to do...just have something there....would it kill him to be a bit thoughtful to his kid?? I had a crappy dad, so I get where she is coming from...

He has a LOT of bad years to make up for, and I dont blame her for being pissed...he keps SAYING he wants to be back in her life, blah blah blah, but actions speak a lot more than his empty words

 

On 12/19/2017 at 1:46 PM, gonecrackers said:

Under normal circumstances, most definitely. I still give her a pass though, in that her dad has really hurt them, & Ashley has probably seen her mom hurting badly from her dad's behavior, so is certainly not happy about Annie.

He had 90 days & could've picked any other one of them; it was a passive aggressive move that he knew would add insult to injury & he didn't give a shit.

It's definitely not the birthday, but that, as usual, it's all about him.

Ashley is angry, bitter, & resentful. Her dad is toxic & as long as she's feeling this way she shouldn't hang around him, much less go to his wedding that she didn't support & then get bitchy.

We are apparently in the minority, but I totally agree. I cringed when I saw how angry she got because I knew how she would be perceived. I have a shitty dad too, and only have anger for him, but long for a normal father/daughter relationship. It's a weird feeling and I have guilt about it all the time. The birthday was just one more thing. David will do anything for the betterment of his life and doesn't even seem slightly embarrassed about it. Ashley showed up for the wedding because she thought it was the right thing to do. She doesn't have to agree with it. I hope she is able to feel enough happiness within herself to manage to move forward.

[calpurnia99]

On 12/22/2017 at 11:47 AM, Granny58 said:

I've been super busy this week so haven't seen all the footage (even yet).  However, on the rerun last night I did catch Ashley at David Poor's wedding.  What appalling behavior!!!  So childish at 28 to be whining about "it's my birthday and should be about me."  I understand the anger at her dad, but (a) that was not the appropriate venue and (b) nobody who is an adult should be concerned about not getting a pony for their birthday (figuratively speaking). 

She only went to the wedding so she could be n TV. She didn't want to go but then realized there would be cameras and she could whine and complain on camera= this is why she showed up. NOT because it was the right thing to do. Was it the right thing to do to go to the wedding and tell everyone there: I'm totally against this! I hate his new wife! I hate his bride! I hate my dad! Of course not, she went for attention. And was especially happy to go to tell her side again on TV. 

Edited December 24, 2017 by calpurnia99

[Eme]

Notwithstanding the fact that Nicole seems to live in a Motel-type situation, life has been too easy for her. She's been able to fly around to Morocco twice (I think the Show paid for those trips) and stay for long periods of time without worrying about money, or care for Mae, or ever bothering to learn anything about the culture she wants to marry into.  These are things that cause normal people some stress, and she's never mentioned these things as issues for her.  (She's mentioned fries more often than any of those concerns).  She's been able to give Azan hundreds of dollars to keep him on a string.  She even shamelessly grinned when he revealed that the lost his job because Nicole was calling him too much.  Seriously? What is she going to do if you don't answer?  What did she do when you didn't answer for the Tell All?

She's a bully and so simpleminded that MommaNicole has to help with her finances -- yet, MommaNicole says that she "sees the money go out to Western Union" - what kind of Fiduciary is she?  If she's on Nicole's account, shouldn't she actually HELP her manage her money?  Seems like it's time for BrotherNicole to step in and call the $$ shots since MommaNicole can't get it together, and PapaNicole is just finding a way to support Azan for the next 10 years....useless.

The way Nicole claimed that she had no plans for the future  and how she will support a small family shows her Magical Thinking that everything will be OK...because it has in the past, right?  The smirks when she saw herself shove Azan, her complete inability to understand that in his culture she has ruined his manhood by her thoughtlessness, and then telling MommaNicole to shutttuppppp on tv -- all of this just rubs me the wrong way.  Her family is doing her no favors in shielding her from the financial responsibilities of life.  

There are so many unappealing things about her, Azan shouldn't focus on her weight....he should worry about her bullying and inability to compromise first.

[spankydoll]

11 hours ago, Katie111 said:

I think Nicole is awful but I also think Evelyn seems to get a pass on these forums because she is skinny and pretty. She also has no marketable skills and zero plans for her future beyond being a housewife and living in Claremont forever.  Her answer to supporting herself is that "God will take care of them".  WTF?  David apparently has a degree but what is he going to do with that in Claremont?  Clearly they are living off of her parents (and maybe his as well).  I also think their relationship is borderline pedophile.  She had to have been 17 when they met. They are the same age difference as Luis and Olivia.  And I found David very smug to everyone else at the tell all.  As if they were better than everyone else there.  

Evelyn gets lambasted on this site and loads of other boards.  She is too immature to be on a reality show. The footage of her unsophisticated, xenophobic, small town white privileged nonsense will live on. I would imagine that the TLC folks didn't air any of her songs because they are copyrighted - you can see the videos on you tube and they are mediocre so perhaps they aren't excellent enough or bad enough to make good TV. 

[annewithaneee]

55 minutes ago, Eme said:

She even shamelessly grinned when he revealed that the lost his job because Nicole was calling him too much.

I don't disagree at all with anything else you said here, and her reaction was gross and childish, but to me Azan seemed like he was selling a story. His demeanor in confessionals is always so cagey and uncomfortable - even in solo interviews, without the agitation of Nicole - that it reads to me as dishonest when maybe he's just camera-shy, so I my view of him as a grifter may be coloring this unfairly....but I didn't buy that at all, personally. I think that he either never had a real job to begin with, or it wasn't much of a job anyway - he's basically an aspiring fitness model much like any given Bachelor contestant - and chose to blame Nicole for the loss of that job (or "job") to make himself look better, and to also leech some funds off of her and make her feel guilty. His general vibe aside, the story doesn't make any logical sense. Phones have do not disturb modes. Even if she was throwing a tantrum across the globe, he's a grown-up and also has a track record of having no issue at all blowing her off for several hours anyway, so just ignore her. 

[Pachengala]

I've been pretty rough on Evelyn, as have most posters here, but there's no comparison between her and Nicole on the vile charts, simply because--yes, I'ma  keep banging this drum--Nicole assaulted Azan, multiple times, on camera. Game, set, match: Evelyn.

[Eme]

Quote

chose to blame Nicole for the loss of that job (or "job") to make himself look better, and to also leech some funds off of her and make her feel guilty.

ITA. There is more going on with him re: him not having a J.O.B.  So what that he lost one job because of her.....why doesn't he look for, and GET, another job?  He's got an angle and he's working it.  

Edited December 24, 2017 by Eme

[zoemom]

5 hours ago, calpurnia99 said:

She only went to the wedding so she could be n TV. She didn't want to go but then realized there would be cameras and she could whine and complain on camera= this is why she showed up. NOT because it was the right thing to do. Was it the right thing to do to go to the wedding and tell everyone there: I'm totally against this! I hate his new wife! I hate his bride! I hate my dad! Of course not, she went for attention. And was especially happy to go to tell her side again on TV. 

Agree.  The only reason Ashley made her "appearance" for his wedding is so she could bitch and moan and make a statement as to how SHE felt about the situation.  Yet another character on the show who is only concerned about what is going on with her and how SHE feels.  Wowza, Never seen such a bunch of folks that feel so 'entitled'.  Ashley had no interest initially in going to her dad's wedding - she said this repeatedly.  (Again while the cameras were rolling).  She didn't come to the ceremony to mend fences or to show her support for Annie.  While I don't condone her behavior, I "get" it.  I don't know much about her mother, but with a dad like David Poor, who seems to be happiest when he's stirring up some sort of controversy (his drinking, dependence on Chris-which stirred up problems with Nikki and Antonio) I'm not surprised to see that she's modeling behavior similar to what she's seen work for her dad.    I wonder if TLC compensated her to "stir the pot"??

[biakbiak]

I do wonder if David got into drugs or something, in the restaurant she didn't deny that he was there for her when she was 16 and pregnant and then he just dropped out of their lives. I wonder if the stroke changed his personality which can sometimes happen. 

[Desert Rat]

12 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

As someone who has worked in social services, I have seen no reason why Child Protective Services would step in regarding May. They have very serious cases to deal with and this is not one.

Yes, and in addition, no court is going to take May from Nicole and give her to the grandmother. Nicole is certainly not mother of the year, but May is not hungry; she has adequate clothing and shelter;; Nicole does not beat her; Nicole does not abuse drugs or alcohol; there are no signs of sexual abuse. In short, from what we have seem on the show, there are no grounds for a court to remove May from the care of her mother. Nicole is not a great mother, but she is an adequate mother, legally speaking. In comparison to CPS cases, Nicole is actually a pretty decent mother. 

[MrSmith]

19 hours ago, Katie111 said:

I think Nicole is awful but I also think Evelyn seems to get a pass on these forums because she is skinny and pretty. She also has no marketable skills and zero plans for her future beyond being a housewife and living in Claremont forever.  Her answer to supporting herself is that "God will take care of them".  WTF?  David apparently has a degree but what is he going to do with that in Claremont?  Clearly they are living off of her parents (and maybe his as well).  I also think their relationship is borderline pedophile.  She had to have been 17 when they met. They are the same age difference as Luis and Olivia.  And I found David very smug to everyone else at the tell all.  As if they were better than everyone else there.  

Well, I'm not giving Evilyn a pass because of her looks. I'm focusing less on her than on Nicole because she doesn't have a child and because she acts considerably less like a child than Nicole does. So when Evilyn and David blow their own lives up (and they will), they'll probably handle it better (at least they'll handle their responsibilities) and there may or may not be a child involved at that point (probably will be because I'm sure Evilyn's top priority now is getting a bun in her oven).

Also, they started communicating via Instagram when Evilyn was 15 years old. So they've known each other for three or four years now. It's absolutely gross and despicable; both on the part of David for being a 24 year old man chasing a 15 year old girl, and on her parents' part for not only allowing it but encouraging it (and then acting on the show as if they were concerned she was going to end up an "old maid" ~~insert eyeroll here~~).

[MrSmith]

18 hours ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

Edited to add:  Per Azan's concern for Nicole's weight:  It is her problem, not his.  He needs to butt out.  As someone who has struggled with her weight and is now at a good weight, I speak from experience.  This summer I was on a weight loss diet to fit into my wedding dress (and I just wanted to lose more weight) and my then fiance was all, "Do you want to go on a walk?  I can get you up at 5 to go on a three mile hike!"  I was like:  Shut. It.  It just wore me down as he can't be in control of that and I don't want him to be in control of it.  I said, upfront, stop it - it is grating on me in a very bad way.  And he did.  At least my man was coming from a place of "Hey you said you wanted to lose weight!"  not "OMG I am embarrassed by you" which is the vibe Azan sends.

Azan needs to have a positive attitude about Nicole losing weight and be supportive. He also needs to recognize that you can't force anyone to lose weight. When I started going to the gym in 2008, my wife became nervous and insecure fearing that I would leave her for someone who was more fit. (In her defense, I was spending two hours in the gym seven days a week.) Of course, her fears had no basis. I encouraged her to come to the gym with me because I thought it would be fun for us to do it together. Fast forward two years and she finally decided she wanted to go to the gym with me. I was delighted and made sure she started out with light weights and proper form. Within a year, she was lifting more weight than most of the guys there and she was enjoying herself.

16 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

As someone who has worked in social services, I have seen no reason why Child Protective Services would step in regarding May. They have very serious cases to deal with and this is not one.

I didn't say that CPS needed to step in now. My point was that when Robbalee and everyone else giving Nicole a handout stops doing that, then Nicole's going to end up not being able to provide for May - whether that be housing, food, clothing, warmth, or some combination of the preceding (and possible including things not on that list). I'm absolutely convinced that if Nicole had to survive only on what she gets from the government and from her job, then she'd crash and burn within 6 months, and it's at that point that CPS and Robbalee step in to take May away from Nicole.

[MrSmith]

6 hours ago, Eme said:

ITA. There is more going on with him re: him not having a J.O.B.  So what that he lost one job because of her.....why doesn't he look for, and GET, another job?  He's got an angle and he's working it.  

Here, let me help you out with this. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=morocco+unemployment+rate

Note that the unemployment rate of 15 to 34 year olds (Azan's age group) is around TWENTY PERCENT and that this age group makes up fully EIGHTY PERCENT OF ALL UNEMPLOYED PEOPLE IN MOROCCO.

Edited December 24, 2017 by MrSmith

[Forum member]

39 minutes ago, MrSmith said:

Here, let me help you out with this. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=morocco+unemployment+rate

Note that the unemployment rate of 15 to 34 year olds (Azan's age group) is around TWENTY PERCENT and that this age group makes up fully EIGHTY PERCENT OF ALL UNEMPLOYED PEOPLE IN MOROCCO.

So 4 out of 5 have a job. He should join the majority and get a job.

[Eme]

Duly noted Mr. Smith -- 4 out of 5 UNEMPLOYED people are in the 15-34 yr old age range. That makes it heartbreaking that he engaged in shenanigans with Nicole so that he lost his job.  AND most likely the major reason he wants to get to the US and get a job and help out his family.  She's really just a bull in a china shop....she's thoughtlessly negatively affected his entire family with her demands and is still only thinking of herself.

[DangerousMinds]

HE is solely to blame for the loss of any "job" in Morocco. Nicole is many things but imo he can't put the blame on her for his actions. Turn off your damn phone.

[brillia79]

18 hours ago, TwirlyGirly said:

Just as an FYI, because I've seen multiple posts in the current 90 Day Fiance topics saying the age difference between Evelyn and David Spain combined with Evelyn's age at the time David first contacted him is close to being pedophilia - it's not.

Pedophilia is a psychological disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children (age 10 or younger).

Hebephilia and ephebophilia are sexual preferences for pubescent (age 11- 14) and post-pubescent (age 15 -16) youths, respectively.

I think we should all be cautious in our use of the "pedophile" label, because that implies the individual is attracted to pre-pubescent children. Evelyn was 15 when David first contacted her - definitely NOT a "prepubescent child".

But also not a legal adult. While this designation is semantically correct, it doesn't absolve David from being a creep with no respect for boundaries who was grooming a minor. Ick!

[Forum member]

19 hours ago, TwirlyGirly said:

Just as an FYI, because I've seen multiple posts in the current 90 Day Fiance topics saying the age difference between Evelyn and David Spain combined with Evelyn's age at the time David first contacted him is close to being pedophilia - it's not.

Pedophilia is a psychological disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children (age 10 or younger).

Hebephilia and ephebophilia are sexual preferences for pubescent (age 11- 14) and post-pubescent (age 15 -16) youths, respectively.

I think we should all be cautious in our use of the "pedophile" label, because that implies the individual is attracted to pre-pubescent children. Evelyn was 15 when David first contacted her - definitely NOT a "prepubescent child".

Or as the old saying goes, Fifteen will get you twenty.

[TwirlyGirly]

1 hour ago, brillia79 said:

But also not a legal adult. While this designation is semantically correct, it doesn't absolve David from being a creep with no respect for boundaries who was grooming a minor. Ick!

David's actions with Evelyn really can't be considered grooming:

"Child grooming is befriending and establishing an emotional connection with a child, and sometimes the family, to lower the child's inhibitions with the objective of sexual abuse. It also regularly lures minors into various illicit businesses such as child trafficking, child prostitution, or the production of child pornography"

Both David and Evelyn were both virgins prior to their marriage. There is no evidence David said or did anything that crossed the line between courtship and grooming before Evelyn reached legal age (or any evidence he did so after she turned 18).

[KateHearts]

Yeah, I'd tread cautiously in talking about David and Evelyn and the "bordering on pedophilia" stuff.  Lots of couples start dating in high school, where one (or both) of them was 15 or 16 when they met- and they waited until 18 or older to marry.  David was sexually less mature than most 27 year olds when he married, so I think sexually they were equivalent.  And 9 years isn't a gasp-worthy age difference.  Now if she were marrying a 55 year old- well ok, that's creepy.

[AZChristian]

I was 16 when I met Mr. AZC.  He was 22.  

Trust me - as the victim of childhood sexual abuse - I know that our relationship was 180 degrees different.

[Arwen Evenstar]

13 hours ago, calpurnia99 said:

She only went to the wedding so she could be n TV. She didn't want to go but then realized there would be cameras and she could whine and complain on camera= this is why she showed up. NOT because it was the right thing to do. Was it the right thing to do to go to the wedding and tell everyone there: I'm totally against this! I hate his new wife! I hate his bride! I hate my dad! Of course not, she went for attention. And was especially happy to go to tell her side again on TV. 

OMG, I’m sure TLC was hoping for a showdown, like the knockdown dragouts on My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding, that are pretty epic when nothing less than bad television will do!

Edited December 24, 2017 by Arwen Evenstar

[lezlers]

On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 4:39 AM, jumper sage said:

Thanks for reminding me - what person, past the age of 10, gets all "it's my day" about their birthday?  She was too much.  Her own kids must have such a happy home.

Interesting!  I like the way you think.

I just turned 40 and I'm a total birthday whore.   In my family, birthdays are revered.  They are some sacred shit, I'll tell you that.   But.....no one would freak out about having a major event like a wedding, scheduled on their bday.   Ashley should've never gone, however.   I loathe David and think he's a POS (he reminds me way too much of my own father who hasn't remembered my bday since I was about 7, despite it being the same day as his own father) but she was totally out of line and came across as a spoiled brat.

[jackjill89]

18 hours ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I agree - sped teacher here and we have a social worker on staff and we have gone over what it takes to remove a child and sadly Nicole does not come close to meeting the standards for neglect, at least in MN.  I am sure they are similar to Florida but May seems fed, does not hoard food nor steals food, clothed correctly for the season, clean hair, has someone to watch her/adequate supervision, seems bathed and hygienic.  No fan of Nicole, I actually find her to be a hosebeast.  But so far, no neglect worthy of CPS.  In fact more nitpick I have of her was in belittling Azan over not knowing how to put in a carseat.  How the hell would he know that?  

Agree -- being a bad parent doesn't equate being neglectful. It takes a lot for DCFS to take away a child from his/her mom. 

Edited December 24, 2017 by jackjill89

[Lily247]

28 minutes ago, jackjill89 said:

Agree -- being a bad parent doesn't equate being neglectful. It takes a lot for DCFS to take away a child from his/her mom. 

Second agree. It is often because the parent(s) are abusing drugs; if not, then some pretty serious neglect or bruises/marks on the child's body. May playing with her iPad a little too much or calling someone Daddy too early is not considered neglectful to call CPS. 

[brillia79]

1 hour ago, TwirlyGirly said:

David's actions with Evelyn really can't be considered grooming:

"Child grooming is befriending and establishing an emotional connection with a child, and sometimes the family, to lower the child's inhibitions with the objective of sexual abuse. It also regularly lures minors into various illicit businesses such as child trafficking, child prostitution, or the production of child pornography"

Both David and Evelyn were both virgins prior to their marriage. There is no evidence David said or did anything that crossed the line between courtship and grooming before Evelyn reached legal age (or any evidence he did so after she turned 18).

Because he wasn't in the United States. A 24 year old commenting on a 15 year old's bikini pics is inappropriate behavior. He was establishing a relationship that would lead to a sexual one - a marriage. The whole Phil Roberts "Get 'em young" philosophy. Grooming.

I once knew guy in his mid thirties who groomed a teen minor for a sexual relationship. He waited until she was 18. He was still manipulating her. It was wildly inappropriate.

There are cases where teachers groom their student, but wait until they turn 18 for sex. Grooming.

Not everyone who engages in grooming behavior is in a pedophile sex trafficking ring.

No sugar coating for David. I'm going to call his predatory behavior for what it is.

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, jackjill89 said:

Agree -- being a bad parent doesn't equate being neglectful. It takes a lot for DCFS to take away a child from his/her mom. 

A lot more than most think. There are hundreds of thousands of homeless children, for instance. Homelessness in itself is not enough for CPS to take a child from his/her parents. There must be other factors. Many schools around here have free breakfast, lunch, and after school programs. They even send food home with the neediest kids on the weekends. Here in Ohio, we are already the least funded state with regards to child welfare. Even if that $$ was doubled, we would STILL be the the least funded. There aren't enough foster families (and outcomes mostly aren't positive). 

[brillia79]

2 hours ago, KateHearts said:

Yeah, I'd tread cautiously in talking about David and Evelyn and the "bordering on pedophilia" stuff.  Lots of couples start dating in high school, where one (or both) of them was 15 or 16 when they met- and they waited until 18 or older to marry.  David was sexually less mature than most 27 year olds when he married, so I think sexually they were equivalent.  And 9 years isn't a gasp-worthy age difference.  Now if she were marrying a 55 year old- well ok, that's creepy.

9 years isn't a big age difference when we are talking about legal adults out of high school. There is a world of emotional difference between a 15 year old and a 24 year old. David's emotional immaturity is no excuse.

[Samurai X]

On 12/23/2017 at 11:39 AM, Katie111 said:

I think Nicole is awful but I also think Evelyn seems to get a pass on these forums because she is skinny and pretty. She also has no marketable skills and zero plans for her future beyond being a housewife and living in Claremont forever.  Her answer to supporting herself is that "God will take care of them".  WTF?  David apparently has a degree but what is he going to do with that in Claremont?  Clearly they are living off of her parents (and maybe his as well).  I also think their relationship is borderline pedophile.  She had to have been 17 when they met. They are the same age difference as Luis and Olivia.  And I found David very smug to everyone else at the tell all.  As if they were better than everyone else there.  

I think people have hard on Evelyn. Nicole has been around longer so her bs kind of takes precedence in the discussion I suppose. Evelyn also didn't do much in the Tell All. They didn't challenge her or David on anything. So it was just them being smug and on their high horse. Which is why we got David lecturing about age gaps and Host Shaun not questioning when their relationship started.

[calpurnia99]

21 minutes ago, jpagan05 said:

7 hours ago, MrSmith said:

Here, let me help you out with this. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=morocco+unemployment+rate

Note that the unemployment rate of 15 to 34 year olds (Azan's age group) is around TWENTY PERCENT and that this age group makes up fully EIGHTY PERCENT OF ALL UNEMPLOYED PEOPLE IN MOROCCO.

This must be why he wants to come to the USA so badly...

[Desert Rat]

4 hours ago, KateHearts said:

Yeah, I'd tread cautiously in talking about David and Evelyn and the "bordering on pedophilia" stuff.  Lots of couples start dating in high school, where one (or both) of them was 15 or 16 when they met- and they waited until 18 or older to marry.  David was sexually less mature than most 27 year olds when he married, so I think sexually they were equivalent.  And 9 years isn't a gasp-worthy age difference.  Now if she were marrying a 55 year old- well ok, that's creepy.

In my state, it is a felony for someone over 21 years old to have any kind of sexual relations with a minor under 17, including sending lurid pictures.  The law doesn't care if the adult is sexually immature or claims to be a virgin. Two high school kids fooling around is a different scenario, but still might be a felony if the age difference is too great, like a 17 year old with a 14 year old. No bueno.  

2 hours ago, brillia79 said:

9 years isn't a big age difference when we are talking about legal adults out of high school. There is a world of emotional difference between a 15 year old and a 24 year old. David's emotional immaturity is no excuse.

There is also a huge legal difference. 

[jumper sage]

8 hours ago, lezlers said:

I just turned 40 and I'm a total birthday whore.

Believe me that changes.  I was never one for an all out birthday.  We got our choice of dinner, cake and ice cream presents...............  Once you hit the big 5 - 0 you would rather not remember, or have anyone else remember.  Us siblings just have to call before midnight on our birthdays.

[greekmom]

19 hours ago, zoemom said:

Agree.  The only reason Ashley made her "appearance" for his wedding is so she could bitch and moan and make a statement as to how SHE felt about the situation.  Yet another character on the show who is only concerned about what is going on with her and how SHE feels.  Wowza, Never seen such a bunch of folks that feel so 'entitled'.  Ashley had no interest initially in going to her dad's wedding - she said this repeatedly.  (Again while the cameras were rolling).  She didn't come to the ceremony to mend fences or to show her support for Annie.  While I don't condone her behavior, I "get" it.  I don't know much about her mother, but with a dad like David Poor, who seems to be happiest when he's stirring up some sort of controversy (his drinking, dependence on Chris-which stirred up problems with Nikki and Antonio) I'm not surprised to see that she's modeling behavior similar to what she's seen work for her dad.    I wonder if TLC compensated her to "stir the pot"??

I thought it was because TLC promised her a paycheck.

[biakbiak]

18 minutes ago, greekmom said:

I thought it was because TLC promised her a paycheck.

TLC is super cheap, only the couples get paid, the rest are just on it for the "fame".

[NinaH]

On 12/23/2017 at 2:32 PM, DangerousMinds said:

As someone who has worked in social services, I have seen no reason why Child Protective Services would step in regarding May. They have very serious cases to deal with and this is not one.

I agree. Sadly, Nicole is within her rights to be a complete and totally useless asshole, who makes poor decisions regarding her child. In the eyes of the law, she is not abusing her daughter. In the eyes of most of the viewing public, she's a shitty mom but that doesn't matter. From what little I know of DHS or CPS, the bar to being a half way decent parent is very very low. The absolute bare minimum is required of a parent. Nicole feeds her child, has a roof over her head with running water and electricity, and doesn't appear to physically abuse her. Anything else May (or any child in the US) gets is gravy. 

And even if May was being abused or neglected in the most horrific sense, Nicole would be given all the tools, resources, and help she wanted to get her back. Again, she'd have to meet the bare minimum to get her back. That's my personal observations in cases I've known of, not personal experience, so i may be off base here. 

[lezlers]

18 hours ago, jumper sage said:

Believe me that changes.  I was never one for an all out birthday.  We got our choice of dinner, cake and ice cream presents...............  Once you hit the big 5 - 0 you would rather not remember, or have anyone else remember.  Us siblings just have to call before midnight on our birthdays.

Doubtful.  I'm the youngest in our family and birthdays for everyone are still highly revered.  Just because you don't care about your birthday doesn't mean no one does.  ;)

[noveltylibrary]

On 12/18/2017 at 10:58 PM, Brooklynista said:

I am so bothered by the way David Spain is sitting with his leg crossed. The bottom of his shoes should not be facing Evelyn. No bueno.