S02.E02: A Manny-Splendored Thing

[SunnyBeBe]

It is odd to me.  I've just never seen many overweight children who had two thin parents and thin siblings.  Normally, it's a family dynamic and a genetic component. I suppose it happens.  So, Rebecca's attempt to help Kate being a healthier weight, were misinterpreted by Kate as punishment or unfair treatment......IDK, I suppose it's possible.  But, the amount of contempt she has for her mom seems much more intense for that, imo. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, deaja said:

I did like that Kevin remembered all the staff people's names - it was a nice touch because it made him seem more down to earth.  From the first couple episodes, I'd thought Manny Kevin was probably a self-centered guy.

It was an interesting contrast with S1 Kevin who called the valet (at his agent's office?) by the wrong name several times. 

3 hours ago, PRgal said:

Did I miss something?  Was Kevin "un-fired" from The Manny?

No, they asked him to come back for the show's 100th episode. This was just a one time appearance. 

2 hours ago, laurakaye said:

But didn't the diaper re-write come after Kevin recreated his meltdown on The Manny?  

Yes, after his reenactment, Kevin told the producer that he loved the script. The producer then said he was going to his office. After that, Kevin got a revised script with the new scene. I have no idea if the producer planned that all along or if he only did it because he caught Kevin giving his hissyfit speech again. I'm leaning towards the latter but it's possible that the producer was vindictive enough to lure Kevin back with the first script knowing that he was going to change it at the last minute. 

[Lady Calypso]

43 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Hmmm.....perhaps I have to consider it from that perspective.  But, isn't Kate 37 years old?  I just can't envision me fussing over a throw on my sofa, for fear my mom might have a problem with it.  And if she did, I'd KNOW IN MY MIND that she's the one who's messed up and not me. I'd laugh about it and tell her that I like it, so get over it.   Funny how Kate lets her push her buttons.  I just have a hard time relating to that.  And I think the writers contribute to this absurd contention by making Kate as a child abhor her mom.  In the flash backs, it appears that Kate is in pain when her mom is in her presence.  Kate was not substantially overweight back then, so I just don't get this mother hate, even back then. 

If it's an issue that hasn't been dealt with, and it seems like Kate and Rebecca never sat down to work out their issues, they can fester up for many, many years. Is Kate being childish? Yes, she even admits as such this episode to Toby. She knows how ridiculous she's being with her mother's words getting to her every time she visits. But Kate can't seem to shake off all her issues with her mom that happened over a number of years. Kate's not as logical about these kinds of things. She realizes on some level, but not completely. Kate acts on her emotions, much like Jack. And, for people like them, emotions trump logic. I'm a very logical person so I don't relate on this level, but I can understand why Kate may act the way she does around her mother. I may find it ridiculous that, at 37 years old, Kate is still acting like a child and is saying these things to her mother. But on another level, I get if she had never dealt with these issues before, of course nothing's going to change. 

Even though Rebecca thought she was trying to help, I can see why Kate interpreted her mother's actions and words the way that she did. It's the little things that can add up. 

[SunnyBeBe]

While, perhaps, I am a Stevie snob, I do think that Kate did a good job with her performance.  I'm still going to have to struggle to see how she's going to make a living doing it though.  She's good, but, not great and doing covers......oh well.  It's her dream, so be it.  Song writing might be another option.  

Edited October 4, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[doodlebug]

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

While, perhaps, I am a Stevie snob, I do think that Kate did a good job with her performance.  I'm still going to have to struggle to see how she's going to make a living doing it though.  She's good, but, not great and doing covers......oh well.  It's her dream, so be it.  Song writing might be another option.  

Song writing is a whole 'nother set of skills, however.  We haven't seen Kate take an interest in that part of music at all and there are certainly plenty of great songwriters who aren't performers and vice versa.  One thing this show does not need is Kate as jack-of-all-trades; being an amazing talent at everything she tries ala Sarah Braverman.  Also, her singing is ok, but nothing special, IMO.  I'm just not seeing how she thinks she is going to be able to make singing a career at age 37 with very little to back it up.  I also think it was rude of her to leave Kevin's show for the spur of the moment job without at least texting Kevin to let him know.  Just last week, Tobey was complaining that she was unnaturally close to Kevin but it looks like that road is a one way street.

As far as Kate and her mom having some sort of big moment of understanding where they come to terms with their relationship; that may never happen and its also Kate's responsibility to realize that and to work on her own problems because it is pretty obvious that she's got a lot of baggage holding her back, including her relationship with her mother (and father) and she needs to fix it for her own good.  One thing I learned seeing a therapist: most people with problematic relationships never have that magical moment of reconciliation where they're both able to see how they've hurt one another.  All you can do is recognize your part and work on your own self for your own sake and things will probably get better anyway.  And, yes, that was part of a discussion about my relationship with my mom who was dying and who was never, ever interested in discussing our dynamic.  Sometimes ya gotta let go of the dream and get to what works.  In Kate's case, however, I think Rebecca would jump at the chance to try to repair their relationship and joint therapy could work well for them if only Kate was willing, which she's not.  She's holding tight to her mom-hate.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I think a lot of Kate's issues with her mother stem from the fact that Rebecca is trying to vicariously live through her, rather than letting Kate be Kate. Rebecca makes Kate a dress to make her feel special, but it is literally Rebecca's dress that made Rebecca feel good when she performed. When Rebecca was singing in the shower, it was the song that Kate was supposed to sing that night. It's not that Rebecca was singing but that she was singing the song that Kate was meant to sing. When Kate gets her first gig, Rebecca tells Kate about her experiences singing in bars. Probably when Rebecca tells Kate to hold the last note longer, or that she will get used to singing through a crowd, that is something she would tell herself. She makes Kate's experience about Rebecca instead of about Kate. Instead of congratulating Kate about her first gig and asking her how she feels and what she's going to sing, Rebecca talks about her own gigs. She can't just compliment Kate and leave it there because it's not about Kate, it's about being a great singer, something she wants for herself. She leaves Kevin's taping to go see Kate because that is something Rebecca is more interested in. It's not about the commitment she made to come see Kevin or about being happy for Kate. It's that Rebecca cares more for singing than for the Manny.

All that said, I think the way Kate reacted to her mother was way out of line. Her feelings are justified but she is so immature about it and takes it over the top. She's a lot like Toby in that way. One thing I will say for Rebecca is that she listened to everything Kate threw at her and still was able to be loving towards her in the car after. Kate was able to accept it too. So even though Kate said some horrible things, Rebecca was able to rise above it. Maybe she saw some of the truth in what Kate was saying. It must have been hard for Rebecca to give up on her dream twice, once when she had her kids and the second time after Jack ruined it.

[Ms Blue Jay]

14 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I never thought I'd say this, but I didn't hate Toby this episode. Well, maybe a little bit when he made the meta comment about Miguel, but I liked him for the first time ever when he told Rebecca he was team Kate all the way. Not that Rebecca wasn't necessarily team Kate - I thought present-day Kate overreacted - but I also have a mother who likes to dispense "well-meaning" criticisms, so I can somewhat sympathize with Kate.

I'm finding it very uncomfortable and out-of-body that I don't hate Toby this season.  I think last year I SUPER did but this season nothing he does affects me negatively and every complaint people have about me I am just so zen about it.  Not sure what's going on.  LOL.  Maybe the writers listened and adjusted.

[MsChicklet]

8 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I get if she had never dealt with these issues before, of course nothing's going to change. 

That's what struck me about the drum therapy at Fat Camp. There's so much she hasn't faced, and the guilt over Jack's death probably has eclipsed them all. She was put in a hard role as the favored child of someone who turned out to be an addict. So often, kids in that role learn to stuff down their fear and anger, to keep the parent's favor or to keep the peace.

[Katy M]

Just now, DoubleUTeeEff said:

think a lot of Kate's issues with her mother stem from the fact that Rebecca is trying to vicariously live through her, rather than letting Kate be Kate. Rebecca makes Kate a dress to make her feel special, but it is literally Rebecca's dress that made Rebecca feel good when she performed. When Rebecca was singing in the shower, it was the song that Kate was supposed to sing that night. It's not that Rebecca was singing but that she was singing the song that Kate was meant to sing. When Kate gets her first gig, Rebecca tells Kate about her experiences singing in bars. Probably when Rebecca tells Kate to hold the last note longer, or that she will get used to singing through a crowd, that is something she would tell herself. She makes Kate's experience about Rebecca instead of about Kate. Instead of congratulating Kate about her first gig and asking her how she feels and what she's going to sing, Rebecca talks about her own gigs. She can't just compliment Kate and leave it there because it's not about Kate, it's about being a great singer, something she wants for herself. She leaves Kevin's taping to go see Kate because that is something Rebecca is more interested in. It's not about the commitment she made to come see Kevin or about being happy for Kate. It's that Rebecca cares more for singing than for the Manny.

They're might be a little of Rebecca trying to live through her, but I don't get that at the ten year old stage.  I really don't.  Yes, she made Kate's dress from her old dress.  But, that was actually really sweet and Kate was excited by that until she heard her mom singing.  Rebecca was singing in the shower.  If Kate hadn't come in the bathroom while she was in the shower, which Rebecca had no reason to think she would, she wouldn't have heard her.  And, of course she's going to sing the song that she's been hearing non-stop for a week.

I do agree in the present that she is making it about herself.  But, I don't know that she realizes she's doing it.  And she's certainly not setting out to hurt Kate. I think another important thing to note is that this career change was Kate's idea, maybe because she was pushed by Toby, but Rebecca had nothing to do with it.  If she were really trying to live through Kate she would have been pushing her into a singing career for years.

[Ms Blue Jay]

13 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Stupid of Sophie to ask him to recreate his speech and then laugh when he is caught.  I didn't like her either tonight.

I liked Toby.

Sophie is my new Toby.  What an asshole.

[3 is enough]

No one has mentioned this, but really, I have to admire Rebecca for telling Kate "I really like your fiance" on the "awkward drive home". 

After the bomb Kate dropped on her, that was pretty impressive.  A lot of people would have just called an Uber and avoided the whole situation.

 

And a small pet peeve:  I know that making Mandy Moore look like she is in her mid 60's is not an easy task.  But I did notice that they neglected her neck.  Probably not an easy thing to do, but maybe put her in  some turtlenecks?  For a lot of women, the neck shows age faster than the face.  Just saying...

Edited October 4, 2017 by 3 is enough

[SueB]

9 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

No one has mentioned this, but really, I have to admire Rebecca for telling Kate "I really like your fiance" on the "awkward drive home". 

After the bomb Kate dropped on her, that was pretty impressive.  A lot of people would have just called an Uber and avoided the whole situation.

ITA.  That was a WIN for Rebecca who so often doesn't have them except for with Jack.   

 

On the 'aftershow' I love Milo's matter-of-fact, 'Randall has Rebecca, Kate has Jack, and Kevin ..has Kevin'.  

Yep.  Pretty much sums it up.  

Edited October 4, 2017 by SueB

[Guest]

I think Rebecca and Kate's relationship is going to take time to heal, if it does.  They both are self-centered - Rebecca making Kate's big gig about herself (and both of them on what was supposed to be a big moment for Kevin), Kate taking things personally even when they aren't (last night it was hearing Rebecca sing in the shower, last season she reacted to seeing her mom's size in a sweater), and just a general vibe where they each look for barbs in everything the other person says and does.

[ThatsDarling]

I wish Mandy Moore would change her voice and mannerisms more when she's playing sexagenarian Rebecca. It's an interesting opportunity for an actress, to be able to play the same woman at different ages, and I don't think she's making the most of it. 

With her obsessive resentment and aspirations for a late in life singing career, Kate is starting to remind me a bit of Baby Jane Hudson as portrayed by Bette Davis. I wouldn't be surprised to see her serve Rebecca a rat for dinner. 

None of the main characters are particularly likable, but I keep watching in the hopes of seeing another shot of Milo's bum. 

[Bean421]

2 hours ago, Georgia said:

I hate how they're doing the foster kid storyline. I'm a CASA volunteer, so I've worked with foster kids. One thing that is so important in foster placements - don't interrupt the birth order. The foster child should always be the youngest child in the home. Randall is 100% correct in his realization of how hard it will be. Older kids who have been in the system generally have dealt with years of trauma. Randall has recently lost a parent, Beth's mother is sick, and Randall is still learning to manage his anxiety - this is not the time for them to foster. The process is also much, much longer than they're portraying. In addition to the extensive background checks, they have to attend classes. It is realistic that they'd get a child placed with them almost immediately after getting certified, though, because there's such a shortage of foster homes.

 

 

Yes! We are adoptive parents and that process was exhaustive. I know foster parenting requires a lot more certification work. They could still deal with the issues for foster kids taking in a child as their youngest. 

I've never loved adult Kate and this episode solidified it. At 37 she's completely stunted. My mom and I have had a rocky relationship and I could never imagine telling her that "her existing" was the real problem. Own your shit Kate. 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

16 minutes ago, Katy M said:

They're might be a little of Rebecca trying to live through her, but I don't get that at the ten year old stage.  I really don't.  Yes, she made Kate's dress from her old dress.  But, that was actually really sweet and Kate was excited by that until she heard her mom singing.  Rebecca was singing in the shower.  If Kate hadn't come in the bathroom while she was in the shower, which Rebecca had no reason to think she would, she wouldn't have heard her.  And, of course she's going to sing the song that she's been hearing non-stop for a week.

I do agree in the present that she is making it about herself.  But, I don't know that she realizes she's doing it.  And she's certainly not setting out to hurt Kate. I think another important thing to note is that this career change was Kate's idea, maybe because she was pushed by Toby, but Rebecca had nothing to do with it.  If she were really trying to live through Kate she would have been pushing her into a singing career for years.

I don't think she realized it either. And I do think making the dress was incredibly nice. I just think it is psychologically telling that the dress she made was from one of her own that she wore when she performed! There are so many choices for making or buying a dress for Kate and what she chose was to cut up one of her own dresses that reminded her of her own singing. I'm not saying Rebecca is some type of stage mother who is going to push her kids into something, I just think she jumped on the fact that Kate was singing because it meant so much to her. In the flashback, she even mouths the words along with Kate. She's clearly thinking about how singing makes her feel while Kate is doing her thing. I don't think she's doing it to be mean to Kate but rather because it was important to her and she didn't get to follow through with it like she wanted. It did end up being hurtful to Kate because Rebecca was thinking more about herself than Kate in those moments.

[SunnyBeBe]

So, how many years did Jack struggle with alcoholism?  It's amazing how almost perfect he was all that time.  Living with an alcoholic is normally a real piece of hell.  (Mood swings, breaking things, violence, no shows, can't hold job, lying, poor health, moody, zero patience).  Apparently, he really did hold up pretty well.  Amazing. 

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, how many years did Jack struggle with alcoholism?  It's amazing how almost perfect he was all that time.  Living with an alcoholic is normally a real piece of hell.  (Mood swings, breaking things, violence, no shows, can't hold job, lying, poor health, moody, zero patience).  Apparently, he really did hold up pretty well.  Amazing. 

Apparently, they're implying that his problem started when the kids were about 8, and it kicked back up again when they're 16. I wouldn't be surprised if they revealed that he slipped a few times in between these years. Maybe he had a drink or two and then went right back to the boxing gym before the problem got worse. It wouldn't be all that surprising if he lied to Rebecca throughout these years so he wouldn't disappoint her. 

[CaughtOnTape]

59 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I think a lot of Kate's issues with her mother stem from the fact that Rebecca is trying to vicariously live through her, rather than letting Kate be Kate. Rebecca makes Kate a dress to make her feel special, but it is literally Rebecca's dress that made Rebecca feel good when she performed. When Rebecca was singing in the shower, it was the song that Kate was supposed to sing that night. It's not that Rebecca was singing but that she was singing the song that Kate was meant to sing. When Kate gets her first gig, Rebecca tells Kate about her experiences singing in bars. Probably when Rebecca tells Kate to hold the last note longer, or that she will get used to singing through a crowd, that is something she would tell herself. She makes Kate's experience about Rebecca instead of about Kate. Instead of congratulating Kate about her first gig and asking her how she feels and what she's going to sing, Rebecca talks about her own gigs. She can't just compliment Kate and leave it there because it's not about Kate, it's about being a great singer, something she wants for herself. She leaves Kevin's taping to go see Kate because that is something Rebecca is more interested in. It's not about the commitment she made to come see Kevin or about being happy for Kate. It's that Rebecca cares more for singing than for the Manny.

All that said, I think the way Kate reacted to her mother was way out of line. Her feelings are justified but she is so immature about it and takes it over the top. She's a lot like Toby in that way. One thing I will say for Rebecca is that she listened to everything Kate threw at her and still was able to be loving towards her in the car after. Kate was able to accept it too. So even though Kate said some horrible things, Rebecca was able to rise above it. Maybe she saw some of the truth in what Kate was saying. It must have been hard for Rebecca to give up on her dream twice, once when she had her kids and the second time after Jack ruined it.

I guess that's where my problem lies with Kate and why I dislike her so much.  She's slapped all of this onto her mother even though her mother hasn't really done a whole lot to her.  What Kate said was unnecessarily harsh and meant to land a punch whereas nothing Rebecca has done has seemed to be with malicious intent.  As a ten year old she was trying to relate to her daughter by offering her pointers on her singing as well as making her a dress she thought would help her feel pretty.  As an adult, her mother recognized there is a disconnect and was trying to relate through her own experiences as a singer and then wanted to support her daughter by going to see her big moment.  Kate assigning all these nefarious feelings to those things rings...well...entitled.  And Rebecca isn't the only person she's done this to.  Kate just seems to be one of those people who needs people to bend over backwards for her or she feels slighted.  Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense because she wasn't neglected as a child either of her parents by any stretch.

Kate needs a big old dose of "Your parents are human and they make mistakes" before I'm about to change my view at this point.  Because from where I sit, she's rude and unfair without getting a whole lot of understanding as to why...other than that's just how she is.  Which is...entitled.

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, CaughtOnTape said:

 Kate just seems to be one of those people who needs people to bend over backwards for her or she feels slighted.  Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense because she wasn't neglected as a child either of her parents by any stretch.

I think the thing is that Jack did always bend over backwards for her.  I think partly because he felt sorry for her, and he always wanted to make her feel better. We saw that he specifically stated that (about making her smile) at the birthday parties.  And, I think because of that, Kate thinks bending over backwards for her is the only way to know someone loves her.  Kevin, while he does have his moments, doesn't bend over backwards for her, but she does it for him, so that fulfills that part of it.  Toby bends over backwards for her, but doesn't understand the rules of how only one person does that in a relationship, so when he wants something back once in a while, it confuses her.

[NeverLate]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

To be fair, they brought in celebrities last season, so it's not like it's a new thing. Alan Thicke and Seth Meyers also made their own cameos last season. 

I read that the actors that want to be on this show, watch it, and really enjoy it! What fun.

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, MsChicklet said:

She was put in a hard role as the favored child of someone who turned out to be an addict

And she has already inherited the Pearson proclivity for addiction, except that in her case it's food, not booze.

[shoregirl]

  I thought Rebecca making a dress out her old dress was sweet. I didn't thing there was anything more to it than this dress made me feel pretty and special and singing is an interest we share so i want this dress to do the same for Kate. I think Kate thought the same thing until she heard Rebecca sing, which again I don't take to be anything more than I song that was in her head because she was hearing all week.  Kate needs to own her shit and stop putting so much blame on her mom. She's 37 not 16. She wasn't just the favored child by Jack she was coddled by him .

         I  am the same age as the triplets and there was no way in the late eighties or early nineties that a car would pull up in front of a school and a kid just could get in with no adult stopping them. It wouldn't have mattered that it was the parent in the car.

Edited October 4, 2017 by shoregirl
Because apparently my phone doesnt recognize the difference between cat and car

[Katy M]

5 minutes ago, shoregirl said:

that a cat would pull up in front of a school and a kid just could get in with no adult stopping them

Well, of course not.  You can't get in a cat.  It'd scratch you when you'd try.  I don't think I ever went to a school where a car could pull up to it and still be on the road.  All the schools I went were either set back, or the playground was behind them.  But it did seem a bit odd that there did not seem to be even one teacher outside to supervise these kids.  I'll pretend there was one right out of eyeshot and she recognized Jack, so wasn't worried about it.  Yeah, that's it.

[shron17]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

And I think the writers contribute to this absurd contention by making Kate as a child abhor her mom.

I found the flashback where Kate decided not to sing in the talent show very telling.  Rebecca gave Kate the dress and then told her she was the best singer in the house, which gave Kate back her confidence.  But then she overheard her mom singing the same song in the shower so much better and came to the conclusion that her mom lied to make her feel better,  Not really Rebecca's fault (though I tend to think telling a child they're the best prettiest, smartest, etc. is always a bad idea), but definitely bad timing.  It's too bad Kate didn't go ahead and sing in the talent show since positive feedback from outside the family would have done her a world of good.  Mixed in with her other issues around her mom and her tendency to compare herself to Rebecca, Kate was now inclined to discount every compliment Rebecca gave her and magnify every criticism.  Parents do need to be mindful of how they praise their children, especially those with low self-esteem.

[Crs97]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I think the thing is that Jack did always bend over backwards for her.  I think partly because he felt sorry for her, and he always wanted to make her feel better. We saw that he specifically stated that (about making her smile) at the birthday parties.  And, I think because of that, Kate thinks bending over backwards for her is the only way to know someone loves her.

Which is ironic since Rebecca's effusive praise ("incredibly beautifully" or some such)  made Kate angry because it meant Rebecca pitied her.  Rebecca will never win with Kate.  

[NeverLate]

8 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Which is ironic since Rebecca's effusive praise ("incredibly beautifully" or some such)  made Kate angry because it meant Rebecca pitied her.  Rebecca will never win with Kate.  

True. I think there are more layers to unfold, between Kate and Rebecca

[CaughtOnTape]

10 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Which is ironic since Rebecca's effusive praise ("incredibly beautifully" or some such)  made Kate angry because it meant Rebecca pitied her.  Rebecca will never win with Kate.  

Exactly.  Kate will always hear negativity even if there isn't any there.  She's a baby.  

I was also doubly irritated with her when she blamed the incredibly shitty thing she said on Rebecca.  Your existence is upsetting to me is a shiiiiiiiiiiiity thing to say to someone.  And she knew it.  And her response was to say it was Rebecca's fault she said it.  I abhor this kind of behavior in people.  I sincerely hope she has a come to Jesus moment with her mother soon, because I cannot handle people who don't take responsibility for their own shit.

[possibilities]

I think Rebecca was trying to bond with Kate by making that dress. it's like "I updated my wedding dress for you to wear at your wedding"-- it may or may not be what you want, but it often is a sentimental gesture that is treasured. I also think that if Kate had even a smidge of self-awareness, she would know how well or poorly she did at gig, and would appreciate the reassurance when she came off stage after. A grown up would be able to say: "I was nervous because you were there and I didn't want to let you down" or something like that, instead of having a vicious tantrum. It was just like how she lashed out at the audition last week. I have no sympathy for her because she's not even really trying to get some perspective on herself and she has an unearned entitlement streak a million miles wide.

When she talked about her audition, and Kevin talked about how hard auditions are, it was bonding and commiseration. Exactly the same as when Rebecca talks about her singing experience as a way to commiserate and show sympathy for Kate. Kate should try to benefit from her mom's experiences, instead of acting like her mother is a worthless person who should shut up and disappear.

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

It is odd to me.  I've just never seen many overweight children who had two thin parents and thin siblings.  Normally, it's a family dynamic and a genetic component. I suppose it happens.  So, Rebecca's attempt to help Kate being a healthier weight, were misinterpreted by Kate as punishment or unfair treatment......IDK, I suppose it's possible.  But, the amount of contempt she has for her mom seems much more intense for that, imo. 

Thinking about it, I know of 3 cases where overweight kids had 2 thin parents.  In one of those cases, the parent were thin, but obesity did run on both sides of the family (grandparents, aunts/uncles, etc).  I don't think that was the case in the other two, but there were definitely "issues" there, which could have led to the obesity

 

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

If it's an issue that hasn't been dealt with, and it seems like Kate and Rebecca never sat down to work out their issues, they can fester up for many, many years.

Exactly.  What can happen at a young age--or at any age, really--can just snowball if it isn't dealt with.  No parent is perfect, and we have seen Rebecca do things regarding Kate that make my skin crawl (singing "Stand By Me" in the shower was not one of them.  Kate walking in on that was nothing more than an unfortunate coincidence), but I don't think that Rebecca was re-enacting Mommy Dearest or anything.  I just think that those instances stuck with Kate, she never dealt with them, and now--decades later--they are these huge issues that are blocking her from any kind of growth.  Also to note, we did see in this episode Kate sort of try to talk to her father about things regarding Rebecca, and he shut her down almost immediately.  I don't know how much we can draw from that one scene, but it *is* in Jack's character to defend Rebecca at every turn.  So, if his daughter who trusts him completely tries to talk to him about her mother and he tells her not do so, that can add guilt to whatever Kate is dealing with.  (I don't actually blame Jack for this, it just is what it is).

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Sophie is my new Toby.  What an asshole.

Maybe THAT is why we have Sophie, to make Toby less offensive!  Not that Sophie is offensive, if anything she's about as interesting as paste, but I'm much more irritated by her presence than Toby's right now.  Toby, for better or worse, at least adds *something* to the show.  Sophie just makes one of the main characters less interesting.

1 hour ago, Hello Lady said:

I read that the actors that want to be on this show, watch it, and really enjoy it! What fun.

Ack!  Quoted the wrong post there...what I meant to get was that Alan Thicke and Seth Meyers appeared in the first season.  I might be losing my mind, but I cannot remember Seth Meyers in this at all last year.  What did he do in the show?

[Blakeston]

3 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Ack!  Quoted the wrong post there...what I meant to get was that Alan Thicke and Seth Meyers appeared in the first season.  I might be losing my mind, but I cannot remember Seth Meyers in this at all last year.  What did he do in the show?

He witnessed the fight between Kevin and Randall.

I've always wanted to know - is The Manny supposed to be a satire of something specific? Because if it isn't, it's truly bizarre to me.

I get that there are plenty of incredibly stupid shows out there, and This is Us wanted to lampoon them, but "shirtless guy is bad at watching a baby" is so far removed from any sitcom I've ever seen that it doesn't feel like satire.

[OtterMommy]

Just now, Blakeston said:

He witnessed the fight between Kevin and Randall.

Okay, thanks!  I must have missed him in that scene.

Quote

 

I've always wanted to know - is The Manny supposed to be a satire of something specific? Because if it isn't, it's truly bizarre to me.

I get that there are plenty of incredibly stupid shows out there, and This is Us wanted to lampoon them, but "shirtless guy is bad at watching a baby" is so far removed from any sitcom I've ever seen that it doesn't feel like satire.

 

I think it is supposed to be a lampoon of The Nanny and the idea of that hot guys should take off their shirts on TV.  It does seem to be a strange show for the 2010's.  It fits in much better in the 1990s.  But, I think its stupidity also plays into the idea that Kevin's "talent" is due more to his appearance than his actual ability.

[MsChicklet]

"The Manny" seems like a sendup of the "inept, bumbling father figure" trope, but with a hot shirtless guy to draw in the millennials. 

[Crs97]

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we did see in this episode Kate sort of try to talk to her father about things regarding Rebecca, and he shut her down almost immediately.  I don't know how much we can draw from that one scene, but it *is* in Jack's character to defend Rebecca at every turn.  So, if his daughter who trusts him completely tries to talk to him about her mother and he tells her not do so, that can add guilt to whatever Kate is dealing with.

He acknowledged her feelings in the car at school (stellar security BTW).  He shut down her bitchy "queen" comment, and not that forcefully.

 

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  (I don't actually blame Jack for this . . .).

No one ever does.

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I cannot remember Seth Meyers in this at all last year.  What did he do in the show?

 

Seth Meyers walked by Kevin and Randall during their street brawl and said hello to Kevin.

[MaggieG]

I enjoyed Toby's "I'm going to pay for the tab......even though we didn't get anything" comment.

[Katy M]

13 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

I enjoyed Toby's "I'm going to pay for the tab......even though we didn't get anything" comment.

And, Kevin wasn't there so he was able to pay the 0 tab.  LOL.

[tennisgurl]

I can understand Kate's issues with Rebecca. I really can. My mom can be a bit like that, always offering "helpful" comments about my clothes, my home decor, my school work back when I was a student, etc. but I have long since made peace with the fact that she is just like that, and she means well. It can be hurtful and feeling criticized by your mom is REALLY painful to many girls and women, so I sympathize. 

However, I think Kate went too far this episode. As a kid, I can understand her resentment towards her "perfect" mom, but as an adult in her 30s? Not so much. Telling Rebecca that her mere existence was upsetting to her, and then blaming her for all the awful things she said? That was a seriously low blow. And it wasn't even anything Rebecca actually did. Maybe say something about her criticisms inside of her her compliments (even though Rebecca clearly does mean well as well) but not how Rebecca being pretty and thin and having a nice voice itself is offensive to her. What should Rebecca do, just never talk to Kate again? Wear a giant bag and a fat suit every time she visits? And she never even apologized! I think my biggest problem with Kate is that she never really takes responsibility for her own shortcomings. While every character on this show has issues and personality flaws, most of all them have admitted to their issues, and are trying to take responsibility. Kate always seems to blame other people. Usually she blames everything on people treating her badly because of her weight (like last week with the band leader), and now everything's her moms fault, even Kate being awful to her. It seems very immature and self centered. 

[NeverLate]

33 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

I enjoyed Toby's "I'm going to pay for the tab......even though we didn't get anything" comment.

I did, I also enjoy his bearded face. I'm a Toby fan. :)

[JudyObscure]

The thing I find oddest about the Kate / Rebecca dynamic is that Kate would compare herself with her mother at all.  My mother was very tiny and pretty, but I actually didn't know she was unusually pretty until I was all grown-up and other people would mention it.   She was my mom!  That's all I saw when I looked at her. All my competitive feelings were directed at the other girls my age.   What 15 year-old wants to look like a 45 year-old no matter how good looking? They want to look like the singers and stars their own age.

The show writers all seem to think Mandy Moore really does look like a supermodel so they write lines like Jack saying his wife is a combination Farrah Fawcett and whoever, and I always think it's a little odd because all I see is an ordinary looking woman with a heavy jaw, but for the story's sake I try to buy into the Rebecca is a goddess thing.  I just don't think a goddess's daughter would see her that way.

[SunnyBeBe]

It's not that I dislike Toby....I just don't see what he gets out of this relationship with Kate.  He's all Team Kate, but, I get the feeling that she wouldn't be that upset if he weren't around.  It's like he annoys her a lot.  

[izabella]

8 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

The thing I find oddest about the Kate / Rebecca dynamic is that Kate would compare herself with her mother at all.  My mother was very tiny and pretty, but I actually didn't know she was unusually pretty until I was all grown-up and other people would mention it.   She was my mom!  That's all I saw when I looked at her. All my competitive feelings were directed at the other girls my age.   What 15 year-old wants to look like a 45 year-old no matter how good looking? They want to look like the singers and stars their own age.

Well, again, speaking as a teen who was 5-10 pounds overweight, I sure would look at women of any age and wish I was as slim as they were.  In fact, if they were old (over 30, lol), it was worse because then, "I'm fatter than a 40 year old.  I"m still a girl/teen and should be much thinner than a grown up.  I suck."

Having a father like Jack who thinks mom walks on water and tells her how beautiful she is all the time, also might make Kate even more conscious of her mother's looks.

Edited October 4, 2017 by izabella

[SunnyBeBe]

Right. It seems that the family thinks Rebecca is much better looking than she is in reality.  lol  Both of my parents were very attractive when younger.  They both got "Best Looking," "Most Athletic", Prom king and queen, etc. all through high school.  My dad actually could have been a model. I'm not kidding.  My mom was super talented and sang a lot, church, school, community, etc.  She could have been famous,  Anyway, it always made me proud. I loved it!  They were young when I was born and I loved that too.  I never got jealous.  It's just difficult for me to fathom.  My mom definitely sings better than me AND plays the piano better too.  I'm super proud of her. Maybe, that's why this is so foreign and difficult to accept about this storyline. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[bettername2come]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

I've always wanted to know - is The Manny supposed to be a satire of something specific? Because if it isn't, it's truly bizarre to me.

I get that there are plenty of incredibly stupid shows out there, and This is Us wanted to lampoon them, but "shirtless guy is bad at watching a baby" is so far removed from any sitcom I've ever seen that it doesn't feel like satire.

It reminds me of a stupider version of Baby Daddy based purely on vague resemblance between Jean-Luc Bilodeau and Justin Hartley and there being a baby involved. 

[Arcadiasw]

17 hours ago, movingtargetgal said:

  I am surprised Beth agreed to go along with this at this point of their lives.  Not only is Randall dealing with such stress but the girls are as well.  They got to know their grandfather, watched his illness progress and lost him in a period of a few months.  I think Randall and Beth are going to be great adoptive parents down the road.  They just need to take a least a year so they can regroup.  This way they will have the emotional reserves they will need to be foster parents.  Doing it here and now is not fair to Randall, Beth, their girls and their future foster child.

From what we saw last week, Randall gets into fits when he doesn't get his way and expects Beth to fall in line. Since Randall has breakdowns, maybe Beth just gives in whenever he wanted something. 

Kevin seems to take another step toward maturity while Kate and Randall took a step back. Randall's not in the right state to adopt and Beth needs to get him to see that instead agreeing to the adoption when not long ago she wasn't fully on board either. 

[Crs97]

The weird thing was that Randall was putting on the brakes; he was honestly completing the questionnaire and starting to ask the tough questions parents interested in fostering need to ask.  Suddenly it was Beth who was throwing the fit because she wasn't getting her way, even though she didn't want it not that long ago.  These two can give you whiplash.

[wilnil]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, how many years did Jack struggle with alcoholism?  It's amazing how almost perfect he was all that time.  Living with an alcoholic is normally a real piece of hell.  (Mood swings, breaking things, violence, no shows, can't hold job, lying, poor health, moody, zero patience).  Apparently, he really did hold up pretty well.  Amazing. 

Apparently, they're implying that his problem started when the kids were about 8, and it kicked back up again when they're 16. I wouldn't be surprised if they revealed that he slipped a few times in between these years. Maybe he had a drink or two and then went right back to the boxing gym before the problem got worse. It wouldn't be all that surprising if he lied to Rebecca throughout these years so he wouldn't disappoint her. 

My feeling all along has been that Jack isn't a "classic" alcoholic/addict but someone with a drinking problem -- specifically, that he uses the booze as a crutch when he's stressed out. If his life is going along fine, he probably doesn't have any compulsion to drink and could have one beer and then stop, but whenever he's feeling overwhelmed, he "self-medicates," so to speak, and that probably creates a vicious circle (because really, drinking just adds to his problems). A truly addicted alcoholic might need to go to an AA meeting every week or so forever to hang on to sobriety; Jack should probably have gotten into the habit of going whenever he feels his stress level rising. 

[debraran]

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I forgot to mention that in my previous post but I hated that too. No one made you do anything, Kate. As cliche as it is to say, you can't control anyone else. The only thing you can control is your reaction to other people, and Kate chose to turn the conversation combative. Kate blaming her mother because now that's what she'll remember from her first gig is all on her because she has held in for all these years that she doesn't like the way her mom makes her feel and then she chose to react negatively to her mom even being at her performance. It was all over her face as soon as she saw Rebecca come in behind Toby so I feel like no matter what Rebecca said afterward, Kate was going to react negatively to it.

I agree, I learned that in my 30's, someone was always upsetting me  and a friend told me that. I had control. I had control over insults also, if someone said, "your a bad cook" I could say, "I think I'm okay, your opinion doesn't define me". It was a life altering moment that I try to remember always.

Kate is very immature in her reactions. I think when you are looked at by society one way, by many, you get the victim mentality. It's true how hard it is but you make yourself a victim. She needs to get her head on straight, she needs to decide if weight loss would help her, if her guilt is unfounded, so many issues. Blaming others for her situation will get her no where.  And although Toby was nice to be "Team Kate" , he should tell her to be nicer and more understanding. Enabling her isn't going to help. She's 37, not 7. You tell your Mom, 'You existed??" That was hard.

Edited October 4, 2017 by debraran

[kittyglitter]

With the deliberate close up of what appeared to be war medals in the baggie on the front seat of the car in the premiere, the flashback with the helicopter, and Kevin appearing to be playing a soldier in next week's preview with Sly Stallone saying "Do it for your dad!", I think they are setting up Jack's Vietnam War backstory. Is this another reason for the drinking besides the alcoholic father? Does Jack have PTSD? I am actually interested in seeing this storyline develop.

 

I also found it interesting that they cut to commercial break without seeing if/how much applause Kate got from the crowd at the end. It kind of showed that the only approval that mattered to Kate was that of her mother, and no one else in the crowd mattered. 

[SixFeetOver]

Are we supposed to pretend that Kate is a good singer, who might be able to make a living at it? That's almost as ridiculous as selling Connie Britton as the biggest country star of the last twenty years.  Thank goodness for the fast forward button!  Bye Toby; bye Kate singing. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by SixFeetOver

[Pallas]

8 hours ago, Cardie said:

While Jack's deathwatch was mostly absent from this episode, we did get a closeup of the American flag keychain that will be found among his effects.

And his wedding ring, and his watch, I believe: I think Kate wears it and we saw it on the arm she raised to (finally) lay her hand on her mother's, in Toby's car. Everything but the "(Something) UNDY CONSTRUCTION" steno pad -- though it might have been among the reams of notebooks that kept getting flung on Jack's desk. Rattling the pint kept in the top drawer.