Season 4 Talk

[Guest]

I thought the pregnancy was out of left field, too, but I guess they got a season of pregnancy jokes and a season or two of baby/toddler jokes out of it.  

Plus they knew Zoe and Junior would be moving on, and a family of four is less funny than one of five, where the parents are outnumbered?  I just read a review of another ABC sitcom (Splitting Up Together) where the writer remarked that virtually all ABC sitcom families have three kids.  

[readster]

59 minutes ago, CurlyATX said:

I really don't even understand why they had Bow have another baby.  Usually that crap is put in because the actress got pregnant IRL.  The twins are young enough to still have active kid storylines.  

A better marriage-facing-strain situation would have been something revolving finances, since that often is what rocks couples.  Or, maybe a nice milestone birthday life crisis.  Most of the couples I know who are divorcing are headed towards 40 and all of a sudden look at their lives and say "yikes... I don't want this".  In my experience only it's also often predicated around a big change (someone loses a lot of weight, a baby now is in school, someone graduates).  

 

Which would have made much more sense in the long run. Having Baby D not doing the milestones because he was pre-mature. I could get behind, but they just brought it up as the kick off for this. There has been no talk or anything having to do with Baby D unless the "plot" demanded it from a joke to showing how out of touch both Dre, Ruby and Bow are at this stage in their lives with a new born. However, its: "Everyone is saying the baby isn't doing things yet, Dre gets worried and everyone is telling him he needs to fix things." When he is in no shape or form an expert. People who suggest that aren't experts and the one who is, decides she is going to stay quiet about it because she knew Dre would react to it badly. Now, we get all this crap from date nights to horrible kitchen remodels. Bow needing to be a "stay at home mom" when she doesn't do anything, but hey no lost of cash there, right? Because Dre has to be the MAN. 

  I see it more than Kenya and the writers had the spin off for Zoey in the bag, knew she was going to be leaving the show and figured this would make it so everyone had stuff to do. Instead of going: "Wait, this always makes shows backfire, has for almost 30 years unless it's a natural thing, maybe we should do it." The acting is fine, but it's plot directing characters and not characters driving plot. Especially given who the characters are the last few years and how much they have driven those points in several story lines. Now, we are just to ignore all of this because you know, Drama!

[galaxychaser]

i'm done with the show. too depressing. i was watching it to get away from my life... going to watch something else.

[Arcadiasw]

7 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

I really don't even understand why they had Bow have another baby.  Usually that crap is put in because the actress got pregnant IRL.  The twins are young enough to still have active kid storylines.  

 

I thought Bow having a baby was a write in because Kenya Barris and his wife had one. 

[Empress1]

My grandparents gave me and my brother a version of that speech when my parents split. I was 14. Not the "when we split, it wasn't anybody's fault" thing; they were married 54 years until my grandmother died. (My mom's parents were divorced, and I think she'd probably say it was his fault, though I never asked - they split well before I was born.) But they stressed that we'd always be family and care about each other. It helped, and my parents actually maintained good relationships with their ex-in-laws after they divorced. I thought Bow's mother should have been part of that conversation, and where was her dad?

Junior really needed to hear that there's nothing he could have done about his parents. He does a ton of work for and in that family.

I think Bow should have told Dre she went back to work. Not necessarily asked him, but given him a heads-up.

So are they getting a divorce for real? Any spoilers out there?

[itsjustme]

Don't ya love a good old comedy?

[rwlevin]

In Dre’s defense, Bow really should have told him she went back to work. That could really impact her schedule of spending time with the kids and that is something Dre deserved to know.

 

otherwise, this episode was mad depressing.

[Dee]

This show really has entered This Is Us territory.

[Arcadiasw]

Did Dre and Bow really go outside looking for that watch instead of talking to their kids?! Bow should've told Dre she went back to work but if they are sharing an apartment on different days, did Dre really think Bow would be there all day alone?

Dre went from zero to a hundred quick. It was disturbing they took away from Junior's day like that. Speaking of the graduation,  I was also thrown by Dre's outfit. It seem too casual to wear at your kid's graduation. 

That kitchen is an eyesore. 

[Empress1]

13 minutes ago, rwlevin said:

In Dre’s defense, Bow really should have told him she went back to work. That could really impact her schedule of spending time with the kids and that is something Dre deserved to know.

 

otherwise, this episode was mad depressing.

Absolutely - odds are good she's going to have to change days sometimes, etc.

[mtlchick]

"No Whitney without Bobby. And then no Whitney BECAUSE of Bobby." 

That made me laugh (and gasp.)  

Marcus was the MVP in this episode.  I thought he was outstanding tonight.

 

However Bow should have told Dre she was going back to work, and I'm almost shocked that she decided that weeks ago.  If things were ok between them Dre would have been supportive, but I don't blame him being irked with things between them now.

[CaliCheeseSucks]

Still not a fan of This Is Us-ing the show *but* at least we got to see the kids, and Ruby/Pops, doing more than just delivering punchlines based on the shallow-est of characterizations. 

While I think Bow should have probably told Dre about going back to work, I can totally understand why she would not have: His reaction was completely predictable and in-character.

[Madding crowd]

I started tearing up at how sad Jack and Diane looked and then I felt bad for the child actors having to be in such heavy scenes. Really don’t like all the sadness. Also didn’t like Diane reading Mercenary Soldier magazine-come on she’s a child. Why was Dre wearing that pink sweatshirt to Junior’s graduation?

[readster]

Ok, so what the hell was Dre wearing at his son's graduation? I mean, for all his shows and looking good for big events, and that's how he dressed? I do agree that Bow should have explained that she HAD to go back to work because of money. However, Dre came off looking like: "I made you quit your job because I'm the man who makes the money and now you say we don't have it!" Mrs. Readster said herself, she isn't watching the show until it gets over trying to be Story of Us. She wants to laugh. I do believe the entire cast has done amazing acting, but really, this isn't Black-ish, this is: "We tried baby 5, didn't work, so we had Bow be the stay at home mom, and that didn't work. So, um... divorce!" 

[Prin Holmes]

Marcus was excellent in this episode, as were Laurence and Jenifer when Pops and Ruby were comforting the kids.

But interestingly, the one who gutted me the most was Marsai, who showed genuine fear and vulnerability from Diane.  She has always seemed emotionally detached from everything going on around her, and it's clear that she thought that Dre and Bow would work things out.  Then, she saw it.  She saw everything firsthand, and she realized how real it was.  She saw everything falling apart in front of her and just lost it.  That broke my heart even more than Junior did.

So Zoey's choice of Luka really is canon on both shows?  Okay, then.  I was expecting either Bow, Ruby, or even Diane to chastise her for not choosing Cash, the rising sports star.

[readster]

3 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

I thought Bow having a baby was a write in because Kenya Barris and his wife had one. 

If that's true, wow! Talk about teleplaying. 

[Empress1]

My opinion of Luka is noted in the grown-ish thread. He does nothing for me.

[Dee]

Marcus was really good this episode, but that final tantrum was 'too young' for Junior.

It would've been better suited for Jack imo.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Dee

[possibilities]

The thing that annoys me most about this whole thing is that they aren't actually doing anything to address their conflicts. They went to ONE therapy session. Then they just gave up. It makes them both look childish and petty because they just bicker and never actually deal with any of their issues.

I don't understand why Bow was supposed to tell Dre she went back to work, or why he'd care if she did. She takes responsibility for her days with the kids, he didn't even notice any change when she took the job, so how exactly does it affect his life?

But they're both acting like total idiots. They have zero skills at communication and negotiation and are not even trying to deal with anything. I have seen teenagers with better relationship skills and insight. It's making me lose all respect fot both of them.

I like Junior a lot. They write him too dumb sometimes, but most of the time he's the most mature and responsible and lucid person in the room.

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, readster said:

Ok, so what the hell was Dre wearing at his son's graduation? I mean, for all his shows and looking good for big events, and that's how he dressed? I do agree that Bow should have explained that she HAD to go back to work because of money. However, Dre came off looking like: "I made you quit your job because I'm the man who makes the money and now you say we don't have it!" Mrs. Readster said herself, she isn't watching the show until it gets over trying to be Story of Us. She wants to laugh. I do believe the entire cast has done amazing acting, but really, this isn't Black-ish, this is: "We tried baby 5, didn't work, so we had Bow be the stay at home mom, and that didn't work. So, um... divorce!" 

Not to mention that his son was the fricken valedictorian.  I am not the clothes horse Dre is, but I would have made sure I looked extra sharp and be telling everyone "That's my boy"!

1 hour ago, Prin Holmes said:

Marcus was excellent in this episode, as were Laurence and Jenifer when Pops and Ruby were comforting the kids.

But interestingly, the one who gutted me the most was Marsai, who showed genuine fear and vulnerability from Diane.  She has always seemed emotionally detached from everything going on around her, and it's clear that she thought that Dre and Bow would work things out.  Then, she saw it.  She saw everything firsthand, and she realized how real it was.  She saw everything falling apart in front of her and just lost it.  That broke my heart even more than Junior did.

So Zoey's choice of Luka really is canon on both shows?  Okay, then.  I was expecting either Bow, Ruby, or even Diane to chastise her for not choosing Cash, the rising sports star.

 

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

My opinion of Luka is noted in the grown-ish thread. He does nothing for me.

I knew she was going to regret picking that flaky weirdo. On a shallow note, Zoey is gorgeous.

 

15 minutes ago, possibilities said:

The thing that annoys me most about this whole thing is that they aren't actually doing anything to address their conflicts. They went to ONE therapy session. Then they just gave up. It makes them both look childish and petty because they just bicker and never actually deal with any of their issues.

I don't understand why Bow was supposed to tell Dre she went back to work, or why he'd care if she did. She takes responsibility for her days with the kids, he didn't even notice any change when she took the job, so how exactly does it affect his life?

But they're both acting like total idiots. They have zero skills at communication and negotiation and are not even trying to deal with anything. I have seen teenagers with better relationship skills and insight. It's making me lose all respect fot both of them.

I like Junior a lot. They write him too dumb sometimes, but most of the time he's the most mature and responsible and lucid person in the room.

The boy was graduating top of his class with a full ride to Howard and his parents did not even throw him a party. It was like they barely cared.  

I have the same problem with the marriage issues, it seems like they only have them because the plot said they should have them. It really does not feel organic. 

The greatest victim of the marriage is their old kitchen (RIP). White kitchens are overdone, but theirs was really nice. It feels like the new kitchen is smaller, which makes no sense since they remodeled to have more room.

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, mtlchick said:

However Bow should have told Dre she was going back to work, and I'm almost shocked that she decided that weeks ago.  If things were ok between them Dre would have been supportive, but I don't blame him being irked with things between them now.

I question how supportive he'd be.  His reasoning for wanting Bow to quit her job wasn't about what was best for Bow.  And arguably, it wasn't about what he thought would be best for his children.  It was primarily about what it'd say about his status and success in life. 

His reaction upon finding out wasn't wondering about who was watching his kids while she was at work (although I'd imagine it'd be similar to who was watching the kids on his days while he was at work.)  It wasn't even that he felt hurt that she was keeping that secret from him even though they were trying to reconnect. 

No, he was mad she took action to put herself in a position to take care of herself. They were separated but he still wanted her to need to depend on him for something.  

Of course, Dre is also the type who would bitch about any support payments he'd have to pay if she didn't go back to work so Bow was in a no win situation there because for Dre, her job was never about her; it was about what it meant for him.

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I don't understand why Bow was supposed to tell Dre she went back to work, or why he'd care if she did. She takes responsibility for her days with the kids, he didn't even notice any change when she took the job, so how exactly does it affect his life?

I agree.  I guess she could have told him but I don't see it as a big deal that she didn't.

[Traveller519]

This episode helped me clue into what made last week such a chore, the supporting cast wasn't there. Having, and more-or-less focusing on them this week gave this arc depth to the plot. 

I guess I didn't fully realize it until this week, but the only characters worth caring about for me are the kids and the Grandoarents (I would have enjoyed seeing Bow's mom up there with the kids as well as Dre's parents). 

Dre and Bow have just become the worst. They're both preachy characters, which is made worse because they've become bumbling idiots in multiple facets of their lives. It's a shame Anthony and Tracee took that route with the characters. Meanwhile the kids have eeked out character development that allowed for this episode and Zoe's separate show (which I don't keep up with, I'm afraid). 

I enjoyed this show for a long time, because it taught me things about the Black experience in an entertaining and accessible fashion, but I don't know if I'll feel like returning to the show next season. I feel like this arc has made me realize what I haven't liked about this season, Dre and Bow. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

16 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

Did Dre and Bow really go outside looking for that watch instead of talking to their kids?! Bow should've told Dre she went back to work but if they are sharing an apartment on different days, did Dre really think Bow would be there all day alone?

Exactly.

If Bow went back to work weeks ago, there's no way that Ruby doesn't know.  Bow would be leaving for work by 6 (as we'd seen in an earlier episode) and without Dre there to get the kids off to school and take car of Devante (which I never believed), either the Nanny is coming very early or Ruby is helping out.  She also would see when Bow comes back home in her scrubs.  It made no sense for Dre not to have known.

I would also find it hard to believe that the mother who gave up her training-intense medical position to stay home with her new baby would now express no anguish about not seeing said 1-year old half the week.  You'd think she'd be all over him at the graduation gathering back at the house since it wasn't her time with the kids and it's not like she can call or text him when she's away. Except that Bow didn't seem to be paying that much attention to Devante when the family was still together.

I can believe it about Dre;  I'm sure he misses his sneakers more than his kids.  Just look how he reacted to Bow thinking they'd give Jr. his "best" watch, and how upset he was at Jr. tossing his "not best" watch. 

Edited May 9, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[OnceSane]

Quote

Dre and Bow are living separate lives and switching off with the kids. They start to realize how much they relied on each other and how hard it is being on their own. Dre gets his sleek, ultra-modern dream house in the canyon with all the amenities, and Bow doesn’t think it’s suitable for the kids.

[KateeBar]

I think this arc is wearing us all down! I was really dismayed at them fighting in front of the kids like that, but my parents did it too when they got divorced. Everything comes bubbling to the surface and you quit being the person you want to be. 

 

The kids were all all really good this episode, especially Junior. He was so naively hopeful for them, and it rang very true. And I liked how Ruby and Pops were written in that ending - they spoke truthfully and kindly. I'm still really sad about this whole storyline but at least it's being written and acted well. 

[readster]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

The thing that annoys me most about this whole thing is that they aren't actually doing anything to address their conflicts. They went to ONE therapy session. Then they just gave up. It makes them both look childish and petty because they just bicker and never actually deal with any of their issues.

I

But they're both acting like total idiots. They have zero skills at communication and negotiation and are not even trying to deal with anything. I have seen teenagers with better relationship skills and insight. It's making me lose all respect fot both of them.

That was perfectly proven when they were picking Jack up after his "stinking leg" situation at school. How Bow yelled at Dre needed to be the "fun dad" and he tells her he has too because she is too serious all the time. I wanted to go: "Since when?" Bow has her moments, but how many times has she tried to be the "fun mom" and Dre has had to be serious. For a couple of 20 years and 5 kids, they act like they have only been married a few years and make decisions based on: "I don't want to be that poor kid who grew up in the hood." and "I'm top of my class, but gave up my job because I was told to." These are not the same people that Junior talked about in his speech. They are being like 11 year olds who can't share the poster board. 

[STOPSHOUTING]

21 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

I really don't even understand why they had Bow have another baby.  Usually that crap is put in because the actress got pregnant IRL.  The twins are young enough to still have active kid storylines.  

 

21 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I thought the pregnancy was out of left field, too, but I guess they got a season of pregnancy jokes and a season or two of baby/toddler jokes out of it.  

Totally agree, just another move that makes no sense, both in terms of the show structure or the characters feeling real, especially considering they've actually used Devonte (sp?) incredibly poorly. Even the pregnancy garnered few storylines, besides the announcement and inevitable season-ending birth episode, plus one weird B or C-plot of her being scared to tell co-workers she was expecting. Either the writers, actors or production crew are extremely uninterested in Devonte storylines, because I've spent most of this season asking, every time Bow or Dre are shown at home, unencumbered by a infant, 'Where's your baby?' 

Also, in yet another completely unrealistic moment. How many 45-year-old+ DOCTORS with four kids already do you know that have a surprise pregnancy? Yes, Kenya Barris and his wife, also a doctor named Rainbow, have six kids, but after the first five and, you know, med school, I would hope they weren't caught off guard by how babies are made. 

This also brings me back to the affluent Johnson's bizarre real estate situation. So, their huge, gorgeous house has a mother-in-law suite, a guest house for Pops, someplace Daveed Diggs must have been sleeping, and a room available for a brand new nursery, but their boy-girl twin are still sharing a bedroom well into puberty? If they were gonna remodel anything, I think adding an extra bedroom to give their soon-to-be-teenagers privacy would be a far higher priority than remodeling a kitchen that was already top-of-the-line, appropriate for the rest of the house, and completely modern (given the style, no way that kitchen was even ten years old). 

Edited May 9, 2018 by STOPSHOUTING

[qtpye]

58 minutes ago, readster said:

That was perfectly proven when they were picking Jack up after his "stinking leg" situation at school. How Bow yelled at Dre needed to be the "fun dad" and he tells her he has too because she is too serious all the time. I wanted to go: "Since when?" Bow has her moments, but how many times has she tried to be the "fun mom" and Dre has had to be serious. For a couple of 20 years and 5 kids, they act like they have only been married a few years and make decisions based on: "I don't want to be that poor kid who grew up in the hood." and "I'm top of my class, but gave up my job because I was told to." These are not the same people that Junior talked about in his speech. They are being like 11 year olds who can't share the poster board. 

Yeah, Dre is not the fun Dad. He usually acts like he can't stand to be around his kids, except for Zoey.

[mookster]

I'm afraid the writers have sabotaged their own show: Taken the traits of the main characters and blown them up 1000% until we're sick of them. I agree the kids were the best part, especially Diane. When Zooey went to comfort her and she jerked away, that was very in-character for her. Also the "is this really happening?" moment was a gut punch. My parents fought in front of us and I would cry and think every fight was going to end in divorce while my brothers kept reading their comic books, so it was interesting to see each kid's reaction. That said, Bow and Dre are ridiculous. I know Dre is a knee-jerk reactor, but if I were Bow, I would have just told him - not asked him - that I was going back to work and dealt with it then, not let him discover the "secret." Also, how are they even working on their relationship with this stupid "nesting" approach? It's so vapidly typical of them: adopt the latest in thing and... that's it. It's all surface and no substance. And I know it's only a show, but it was heartbreaking to see how they ruined Junior's graduation day. There should have been at least a small party at the house with some of his friends. He was valedictorian for chrissake - and going to Howard. Even my bickering parents threw me a party and I went to a state school! 

[jmonique]

They might as well have just given Anthony and Tracee each two episodes to present their cases for Best Actor/Actress in a "Comedy" directly to the Emmy voters. It would have been just as effective.

This show really needs to get over itself.

[readster]

2 minutes ago, mookster said:

 Also, how are they even working on their relationship with this stupid "nesting" approach? It's so vapidly typical of them: adopt the latest in thing and... that's it. It's all surface and no substance.

Nesting really isn't that new, it's been around for years, it just turned into that terminology based what it is: "Taking up residence temporarily until a final solution is found." My wife's parents did the nesting thing back in the early 90s after a blow up that was years in the making. What lead to it was that her older siblings were out of the house and my wife was in high school. My father-in-law wanted to get his MBA and was accepted and the only way to pay for everyone was to sell his successful real estate business. As a result, he got an apartment outside of town, took up a grad student job to pay for the rent, got a scholarship for school and gave the rest of the money to my mother-in-law to keep the house paid for. It hit the family hard and neither one of them signed anything official for almost 3 years. Then my wife, father-in-law and sister-in-law all graduated a week apart from each other and the reunion made them realized they didn't want to live apart, my father-in-law got a really good job and that was the end of that. However, they talked, actually tried to be civil and since my wife and her siblings were all older they basically said: "You two have not killed each other in over 25 years and you want to split up now because: "It's been a rough couple of years." They made up and went from there. I had an aunt who did the same, but that ended with a divorce in less than a year. 

  However, in those situations, everything had been building for years, with Dre and Bow it comes off as; "I don't want to talk to you because you are a big baby and don't see past your nose. So, nah nah!" 

[qtpye]

9 minutes ago, mookster said:

I'm afraid the writers have sabotaged their own show: Taken the traits of the main characters and blown them up 1000% until we're sick of them. I agree the kids were the best part, especially Diane. When Zooey went to comfort her and she jerked away, that was very in-character for her. Also the "is this really happening?" moment was a gut punch. My parents fought in front of us and I would cry and think every fight was going to end in divorce while my brothers kept reading their comic books, so it was interesting to see each kid's reaction. That said, Bow and Dre are ridiculous. I know Dre is a knee-jerk reactor, but if I were Bow, I would have just told him - not asked him - that I was going back to work and dealt with it then, not let him discover the "secret." Also, how are they even working on their relationship with this stupid "nesting" approach? It's so vapidly typical of them: adopt the latest in thing and... that's it. It's all surface and no substance. And I know it's only a show, but it was heartbreaking to see how they ruined Junior's graduation day. There should have been at least a small party at the house with some of his friends. He was valedictorian for chrissake - and going to Howard. Even my bickering parents threw me a party and I went to a state school! 

I mean what asshole parents would not put their differences aside and be proud as hell of their son? Dre acted like he did not give a shit even though Junior got a full scholarship to his Alma Mater and Bow just used it as an excuse to bring up how she "almost" made the valedictory speech at her graduation. Plus the fact that Junior was valedictorian was not even brought up until this episode. It was almost like it was a lame plot device to have him give a touching speech to bring his parents together only to tear them apart at the end for the silliest reason. 

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

I don't understand why Bow was supposed to tell Dre she went back to work, or why he'd care if she did. She takes responsibility for her days with the kids, he didn't even notice any change when she took the job, so how exactly does it affect his life?

I agree.  I guess she could have told him but I don't see it as a big deal that she didn't.

OF COURSE he'd care!  Income is a highly contested issue in DIVORCE COURT.  Her working would affect everything from spousal support to child support to payment arrangements for college etc.  The divorce lawyers would have a field day with that admission.  

Quote

Ok, so what the hell was Dre wearing at his son's graduation? I mean, for all his shows and looking good for big events, and that's how he dressed?

I traveled from New York to Topeka, Kansas, for a high school graduation at one of the top public schools there 4 years ago.  I wore floral pants, knit top with jacket and high heels.  Most of the men there were in t-shirts and blue jeans.  I was shocked.  

[readster]

9 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

OF COURSE he'd care!  Income is a highly contested issue in DIVORCE COURT.  Her working would affect everything from spousal support to child support to payment arrangements for college etc.  The divorce lawyers would have a field day with that admission.  

I traveled from New York to Topeka, Kansas, for a high school graduation at one of the top public schools there 4 years ago.  I wore floral pants, knit top with jacket and high heels.  Most of the men there were in t-shirts and blue jeans.  I was shocked.  

How true and the fact that three of their 5 kids are far from finishing school: Twins (6 years), Baby D (17 years). Both lawyers would have a field day indeed. As for the men wearing tshirt and jeans. I know what you mean, but in Dre's case, it just didn't make sense. He knows when to dress for a situation and here it looked like: "I'm heading out to get a few things from the grocery store." Not: "Wow, my boy! Top of his class after all the crap he went through and all the crap I gave him!" Yep, Dre's wear and Bow's talk was just to push the envelope so after JR's speech, it all come crashing down. Plus, we had to see that HORRIBLE kitchen again. Seriously! Who's idea was that? Kenya or some upstart set designer?

[readster]

1 hour ago, STOPSHOUTING said:

 

Totally agree, just another move that makes no sense, both in terms of the show structure or the characters feeling real, especially considering they've actually used Devonte (sp?) incredibly poorly. Even the pregnancy garnered few storylines, besides the announcement and inevitable season-ending birth episode, plus one weird B or C-plot of her being scared to tell co-workers she was expecting. Either the writers, actors or production crew are extremely uninterested in Devonte storylines, because I've spent most of this season asking, every time Bow or Dre are shown at home, unencumbered by a infant, 'Where's your baby?' 

Also, in yet another completely unrealistic moment. How many 45-year-old+ DOCTORS with four kids already do you know that have a surprise pregnancy? Yes, Kenya Barris and his wife, also a doctor named Rainbow, have six kids, but after the first five and, you know, med school, I would hope they weren't caught off guard by how babies are made. 

This also brings me back to the affluent Johnson's bizarre real estate situation. So, their huge, gorgeous house has a mother-in-law suite, a guest house for Pops, someplace Daveed Diggs must have been sleeping, and a room available for a brand new nursery, but their boy-girl tweens are still sharing a bedroom well into puberty? If they were gonna remodel anything, I think adding an extra bedroom to give their soon-to-be-teenagers privacy would be a far higher priority than remodeling a kitchen that was already top-of-the-line, appropriate for the rest of the house, and completely modern (given the style, no way that kitchen was even ten years old). 

Oh yes, don't get me started on the twins still living together. Even Fuller House did talk that after DJ went off to college, Steph went back to the room so Michele could have her privacy since she was older. Here it is: "They are twins, BFFs forever, until they want to kill each other." Seriously, twins by the age of 7 want to start being in their own space. I have a few friends with twins both boys and girls and it lasted until 2nd grade before: "I love you, but keep your crap away from me." I mean, Dre has an entire three set closet dedicated to his shoes and even needs a step stool to get some most days. Why did they get that horrible kitchen remodel instead of adding a new room or having Zoey go: "You know, I think Diane can have my old room, it's not like Pops uses the pool house every day." But nah!

[Empress1]

11 minutes ago, readster said:

How true and the fact that three of their 5 kids are far from finishing school: Twins (6 years), Baby D (17 years). Both lawyers would have a field day indeed. As for the men wearing tshirt and jeans. I know what you mean, but in Dre's case, it just didn't make sense. He knows when to dress for a situation and here it looked like: "I'm heading out to get a few things from the grocery store." Not: "Wow, my boy! Top of his class after all the crap he went through and all the crap I gave him!" Yep, Dre's wear and Bow's talk was just to push the envelope so after JR's speech, it all come crashing down. Plus, we had to see that HORRIBLE kitchen again. Seriously! Who's idea was that? Kenya or some upstart set designer?

I think it's fitting when you consider the way Dre has always treated Jr. (i.e., like shit). He's never had a "that's my boy!" approach to Jr. - even when Jr. chose Howard, Dre was more excited about sticking it to Bow and being right than he was about being happy/excited for Jr. (or even for the free ride because while they have money, they also have five kids, two of whom are going to be in college at the same time. They should have been THRILLED about that). It's not weird to me that Dre didn't mention Jr. being valedictorian, but it IS weird to me that Bow didn't.

The "nesting" thing makes sense to me for them, and I don't think it's particularly novel. It's easier for one person to go in and out of the house than to schlep five (or three, I guess, because Zoe and Jr. are 18+ and can decide where/if they want to go), one of whom is a baby and thus has lots of stuff to schlep. 

[CurlyATX]

I completely forgot about the room sharing!  When I was a kid my parents lived in a small house in San Francisco and for most of our life we only had 3 bedrooms.  Then they added a master suite and I got their old room.  When I left to college I immediately switched rooms with my brother. It made no sense to me to have this large room sitting empty.  I think in CA where space is a premium, that room would be taken up.  I would have said Zoey's room would go to Diane and the baby would crib with the parents.  Then, when Junior left, the baby would go there.  Visiting kids get the couch/air mattress. 

I forgot that Ruby lives IN the house and that Pops is in the pool house.  Now, if they have a pool why was the neighbor hesitant to invite Dre and the family over for a pool party?  She said it was because she didn't think they swam, right? Or was that the racist boss who thought that?

I also think that mixed gender kids need privacy, especially around puberty.  When Diane had to wash her sheets it was extra embarrassing that Jack is the one who found out. 

[joanne3482]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I question how supportive he'd be.  His reasoning for wanting Bow to quit her job wasn't about what was best for Bow.  And arguably, it wasn't about what he thought would be best for his children.  It was primarily about what it'd say about his status and success in life. 

His reaction upon finding out wasn't wondering about who was watching his kids while she was at work (although I'd imagine it'd be similar to who was watching the kids on his days while he was at work.)  It wasn't even that he felt hurt that she was keeping that secret from him even though they were trying to reconnect. 

No, he was mad she took action to put herself in a position to take care of herself. They were separated but he still wanted her to need to depend on him for something.  

Of course, Dre is also the type who would bitch about any support payments he'd have to pay if she didn't go back to work so Bow was in a no win situation there because for Dre, her job was never about her; it was about what it meant for him.

EXACTLY! This is what bothered me about his argument with her.  He interpreted it as she was preparing herself for divorce.  I think in his deepest heart Dre just figures they'll work it out and Bow isn't so sure.  And I suspect finding out she went back to work was his wake up call, similar to Diane's, that this might actually be serious. 

[tennisgurl]

Well, at least this episode was a bit more interesting than the last few weeks. I cant wait for this separation thing to be over already, its just dragging the whole show down. I liked seeing more of the kids, and their reactions to this whole mess. Plus, any episode with Pops automatically gets an upgrade. 

At least Junior got a brief win with his graduation speech being a bog success. But now, his parents have totally ruined it. I mean, they didnt even throw him a party, despite being valedictorian, and going to Howard? That freaking sucks. They couldn't have just waited to have their stupid fight? However, I think their worst moment was when all their kids ran off in distress, and they...went to find the watch. Really? Poor Junior tried so hard to be helpful, and thats all he gets.

Nice seeing Zoe again, even if she and Luka are having issues already. I miss Grown-ish. Tell everyone I say hi, Zoe! Really, I thought the interactions with the kids was pretty good, and in character for all of them. Diane's reaction to Dre and Bow fighting at the party was really heartbreaking, and it was nice to see her acting like a kid, not a baby sociopath they sometimes write her as. 

Honestly, this whole thing doesn't work for me, because I dont really know what their problem is. All of this fighting just kind of came out of nowhere (yeah, Bow and Dre always fight, but its never been shown to be that big a deal), and I have no idea why they're marriage is falling apart. I actually think Dre was right to be mad that Bow went back to work without telling him, even if he acted super dramatic about it. Bow working affects the kids, and since they're supposedly trying to make it past this, so yeah, he should know. I cant get that invested, because it all seems to have escalated so quickly, and it seems to just exist because the show wanted to do a dramatic possible divorce arc, not because it occurred naturally in the story, or was the result of actual issues between the characters. It seems like it will be easy to resolve at the end of the arc, because its all just for an arc, not because its real.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, mookster said:

He was valedictorian for chrissake - and going to Howard

He was valedictorian after less than 1 year in the school, correct? The salutatorian, if there was one, must have been mightily annoyed.

[nilyank]

Zoey got a car and a a trip to Europe when she graduated. 

Dre bought Ruby a new car.

They just threw a massive birthday party with a bouncy house for Devonte who at 1 year of age won't remember it.

They needlessly remodeled their pretty kitchen.

Junior got a watch from his father that Dre initially questioned Bow about giving it to him and not even a party with the family that ended with his parents fighting. 

Even if they had less money around this time, they should have done something more for him. Then again, it would have been more embarrassing to Junior if they had that fight in front of their friends.

[greekmom]

5 hours ago, KateeBar said:

I think this arc is wearing us all down! I was really dismayed at them fighting in front of the kids like that, but my parents did it too when they got divorced. Everything comes bubbling to the surface and you quit being the person you want to be. 

 

The kids were all all really good this episode, especially Junior. He was so naively hopeful for them, and it rang very true. And I liked how Ruby and Pops were written in that ending - they spoke truthfully and kindly. I'm still really sad about this whole storyline but at least it's being written and acted well. 

If i want to watch This is Us, I will watch that. I watch Black-ish for it's smart comedy and wicked writing.  This storyline just bites.

Marcus (Junior) just knocks it out of the park.  I don't think that now he has graduated he is leaving the show?? 

[Arcadiasw]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

He was valedictorian after less than 1 year in the school, correct? The salutatorian, if there was one, must have been mightily annoyed.

That actually happened at my high school. My classmate's older brother was going to be Salutatorian of his class when a girl transferred a month after the school year started. Her brother and family were pissed and even contested it. Didn't work unfortunately. 

[willowk]

After last night, I think Bow and Dre are divorcing, or at least the separation will last into next year. I hate to see it happen, they are one of my favorite TV families. I hope I'm wrong, but I think next week they will initiate divorce proceedings, and when new episodes return in the fall they may jump ahead in time to after the divorce, so there is some potential return of comedy. I can't see how they will work out the living arrangements -Dre's parents live with them right now, yes? But when Bow said she went back to work as she "needed to be able to support her kids" it was devastating. People are debating whether Dre should have been upset, but to me the kicker was her wording -she is already thinking that she needs to bring in enough money to live on her own.

[possibilities]

I assumed that she was working part time and that it wasn't affecting the kids. She has the kind of career prospects that could theoretically allow her to schedule a half week on/half off.

Of course she'd need to tell him if they were actually in divorce negotiations, but the way the presented it, they were just swapping houses and not even in therapy or doing ANYTHING other than "taking space".

I agree that she COULD have told him, and if they were actually working on their relationship, she would have. But it looked to me like they weren't speaking, and couldn't stand each other enough to be in the same room and be civil, they couldn't even get Junior's graduation present without tempers flaring, so I understand why she didn't call him to tell him about going back to work. It doesn't seem like she was actively hiding it, because when she refused his offer to stay overnight she gave her reason as work-related, when she could have been more evasive.

I think the overall dynamic is that if she tells him anything he blows up and refuses to consider her point of view at all, and she's tired of it and just wants a break from it. And on his side... I honestly don't understand what his problem is, to be honest. Throughout the show's run, I've always seen him as being a self-centered baby while Bow humors him. So she's not humoring him anymore and he's tantrumming non-stop.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

39 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

That actually happened at my high school. My classmate's older brother was going to be Salutatorian of his class when a girl transferred a month after the school year started. Her brother and family were pissed and even contested it. Didn't work unfortunately. 

It's hard to fairly compare grades earned at different schools. The new student's former school might have graded more leniently-or not. Usually the top kids in a school are taking a lot of the same honors classes so they really are being compared directly with each other for grades. 

[Momopeach]

Their arguments seem SO petty and stupid, but Bow didn't owe him anything. She doesn't owe telling him that she went back to work. If a man was acting that way with me and I knew his reaction, I would look out for my best interest too. It would be dumb of her to wait around for him and NOT do it when that could severely mess up her taking care of herself and children. Diane's reaction was more heartbreaking than anything because I don't think it hit her until that moment. I'm tired of this arch myself and I hope they go back to normal soon. 

[gesundheit]

I've never even know anyone to throw a high school graduation party for their kid (a nice family dinner, sure), so I'm surprised there's such a response to that, but apparently my circles are depriving their children! (Or we were deprived as children.) Anyway, this was an improvement on last week, to be sure -- both since it included the larger cast and actually bothered trying to inject some comedy into it. That said, this is not why I watch this fun, big-hearted, feel-good show. At all. Ready for this to be over. (And dammit, this cast deserves awards, but I don't want them taking home comedy awards for drama. That always drives me crazy. Comedy is HARD. Reward it!)

[Deanie87]

Last week was depressing and it made me angry. This week it was just sad.

Once again, Junior got hosed. Zoey gets a car and a trip to Europe and Junior gets a used watch that his dad didn’t really even want to give up. Not to mention the inscription was about as generic as you could get. It had nothing to do with Junior at all, it could have been for anyone.  Normally that would be a great, sentimental gift, but coming from a father who can barely hide his contempt for you, it just came off as half-assed. Ugh, just give Junior a spin-off so I can watch that instead.

Finally, it must be nice to frequent a jeweler often enough that the sales clerk knows your name and life story. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

16 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

Finally, it must be nice to frequent a jeweler often enough that the sales clerk knows your name and life story

She must have been disappointed that they didn't buy anything, although she didn't show it.