S01.E02: Battle at the Binary Stars

[paigow]

Did Enterprise show up at the ambush? When trying to kidnap a high value target, sending more than 2 people is likely a good idea.... 

1 hour ago, marinw said:

Then there was Sybok. The less said about him the better.

Burnham needs to face her pain....

[LittleIggy]

I'll keep watching, just not buying (nuff said). Why did they make the Klingon faces incapable of any nuance of expression? On "Face Off," the judges will ask the models to move their faces and tsk if they can't. Was the hologram Klingon with the chains on its face supposed to be a female? Hard to tell.

[KimberStormer]

OK I am just completely baffled by the decision to only show the first half on TV.  This was the episode the people need to see in order to want to get All Access.  Now we know what kind of show it's going to be and it looks like it could be interesting!  There's a lot I'm still not in love with (starting with the war story/militarism) but Haunted Disgraced Criminal Michael Burnham is much more interesting than Smug Asshole Michael Burnham.  I feel like there's a lot they can do with this setup.

I don't necessarily mind killing off Michelle Yeoh (it has to happen to some captain sometime, the way Starfleet captains behave) but I do think it's a terrible mistake to replace her with a white guy.  I cannot believe how much people care about Klingon makeup!

Edited September 26, 2017 by KimberStormer

[Daisy]

I'm wondering if this didn't have "star trek" attached to it - if i'd like it more - or just ditch it. 

I'm sad Phillipa is dead.  I hope we see her in flashbacks. 

Life imprisonment? Kirk and the Gang all got slapped on the wrist for:

* attacking multiple Starfleet personnel 
* stealing a ship
* sabotage another ship
* harmed diplomatic relations with the Klingons
* destroyed the ship they stole
* went to a classified planet 
among other things. and all that happened to them was that Kirk got demoted, and they still got to fly around. 

I don't have any attachment to anyone on this show, except the one they killed off (which i think is bad). 
DS9, i was intrigued about almost everyone 
Voyager  there was enough "this could work" to keep me watching 
Enterprise -the pilot was strong to have me keep watching (then it wasn't as 'ooo' so i stopped and caught up via selective watching via netflix)

I firmly believe this could have worked after DS9/Voyager. and I think it would excuse a lot of the things it bugs people (tech, style, etc). Like I feel they could have made this aesthetically like the movies to get that vintage feel.  like I don't mind crystal clear quality and obviously 'modern' stuff. but still. 

I have to wear sunglasses. Holy Lens Flare. 

The Klingons bug me. I don't get how they look like the way they do, I don't get why they all speak as if Klingon is their second language. whenever they were on, i just stopped being engaged, because it bothered me. 

I'll check out the other episodes. thankfully i don't have to pay (thanks CraveTV television package). but i don't know if i'll be engrossed. 

 

[paigow]

If Voyager is canon...then Starfleet will inevitably master time travel. So setting Discovery as the first time travelling ship - lost like Sliders - in a post Voyager timeline could have worked.

3 hours ago, Daisy said:

I firmly believe this could have worked after DS9/Voyager....

[CanadaPhil]

On 2017-09-24 at 11:35 PM, AEMom said:

Dear Space network:

......

Not sure how much I missed,  but I'm retaping the 2nd hour of their next airing during the night.

 

You didn't miss anything.

It just started a little late.

[staphdude]

When will Star Trek actors and writers learn to not equate logic with arrogance.

Overall the second episode was a tad better but I would have reversed the shanking and let Michelle Yeoh conquer the stars!

[statsgirl]

17 hours ago, marinw said:

And maybe he was harder on his biological son than his adopted daughter.

That makes sense -- first because he was a son, and second because he's Sarek's biological child.  People can be harder on their biological offspring than those they don't share genes with.

[Vandy10]

I'm not entirely convinced that Sarek and Michael were really communicating telepathically across light years. I think it's possible it was all in her head. Especially after Sarek said something quasi-emotional and Michael replied that he'd never been one to bolster her self-esteem, and then he told her that he'd made a mistake in not doing that more often. That seemed more like something a person's desperate subconscious would bring up before death. Just a theory, but it makes more sense than telepathic communication from those distances.

[Florinaldo]

Or perhaps Sarek implanted in her mind some sort of psychological sub-routine that simulates his persona and can be called upon when needed and create an imaginary dialogue between the two. It would make a little more sense than instant communication over so many light-years.

[starri]

This isn't meant as confrontational as it probably sounds, but why is telepathic communication across light years too much, but Spock being able to make a copy of himself in Bones' brain okay?

[Florinaldo]

Spock had direct physical contact with McCoy, so distance is not really a problem; it can be performed in seconds, assuming such a transfer is indeed possible and that there is enough room in the brain to accommodate that new data. My main problem with the Sarek-Michael connection is that it happens instantly, with no discernible lag in communication.

[meeeechiganman]

you know its too bad most of you who watched this new star trek probably didn't watch DARK MATTER over at Sy Fy, as after 3 seasons of HIGH Ratings they, for no apparent reason, cancelled it.  Its such a shame cause the writing and the acting for that show was FAR superior than discovery will be. 

[benteen]

I found the performances to be poor as the show went on (though I like Doug Jones's character). I found the story to be nothing special and the heavy use of the Klingon language and subtitles to be laborious. They talk in Klingon too much and they talk VERY slowly and drawn out. Yeoh and Burman beaming over to the Klingon ship reminded me Kirk and Spock beaming over to Nero's ship (and Burman on the prison barge reminded me of Rogue One). The Zod-like tribunal was over the top for Star Trek. Finally, I hate the fact that they think being darker also means that everything has to LOOK dark. In this episode and in the previews, this looks like a show where many of the scenes will take place in dimly lit starships. Not appealing. Say what you will about JJ but his Star Trek was colorful and brightly lit.

Quote

So the whole plot of the season openers can be summarized as: Federation and Klingons meet, officers squabble and fight with each other, big battle destroys a huge number of ships and lead character is sent to prison but not for long of course.

Most of that sounds like the more recent Star Trek movies although they ultimately come down to "Bad man with a big gun."

[KimberStormer]

17 hours ago, Daisy said:

Life imprisonment? Kirk and the Gang all got slapped on the wrist for:

* attacking multiple Starfleet personnel 
* stealing a ship
* sabotage another ship
* harmed diplomatic relations with the Klingons
* destroyed the ship they stole
* went to a classified planet 
among other things. and all that happened to them was that Kirk got demoted, and they still got to fly around.
 

Well they had sort of just saved the Earth from destruction, plus, you know, had saved it and the whole galaxy several times, which served as a get-out-of-jail-free card.  Anyway they still went to jail for life as soon as the Klingons got hold of them!  (Jail where they go to hang out with Iman, but still, jail.)

[piequinn35]

We liked the 2 episode premiere, when we saw Michelle Yeoh as special guest obviously she will be killed and Michael (why the name Michael for a girl?) will be the next captain of a new ship that will be named Discovery :P first, Michael would have to get out of jail then command Discovery then avenge Filippa and the others.

Edited September 27, 2017 by piequinn35

[Vandy10]

10 hours ago, starri said:

This isn't meant as confrontational as it probably sounds, but why is telepathic communication across light years too much, but Spock being able to make a copy of himself in Bones' brain okay?

Since I'm the one that threw out the theory, I'll take a stab at it. For me, it's probably due to my loose relationship with canon. I'm fine with throwing out canon that conflicts with how we've evolved as a society (stupid no-women-captain rule), and I don't get bothered by things appearing contradictory due to updated special effects technology. Basically, I'm happy to be watching a show that reflects that it's made in 2017, even if it's supposed to be canon locked to pre-TOS.

But otherwise, I'm happy for a show to stick to its established canon. I don't know that it's been addressed specifically, but I feel like we have some evidence that telepathy doesn't normally work over great distances in ST. Imzadis never communicated across light years, as far as I can remember; neither have we seen Vulcans do that.

The bolded above is actually what I was thinking of when I wrote my post, but didn't fully explain. I think Sarek left a little bit of his katra/self in Michael when he mind-melded with her. And she was speaking to that, not to the real Sarek light years away.

[Florinaldo]

1 hour ago, Vandy10 said:

I think Sarek left a little bit of his katra/self in Michael when he mind-melded with her. And she was speaking to that, not to the real Sarek light years away.

Exactly. That's the theory I proposed a little upthread, although I forgot the Vulcan-specific notion of "katra". It takes care of the absence of lag in communication despite the enormous distance; lag is a factor here on Earth, as we can see when TV or radio journalists make live reports from far away locations. And in the ST universe, even travel and communications through "subspace" are not instantaneous.

I suppose it would be possible to try and work around the lag issue by arbitrarily throwing around the word "quantum", as technobabblers often do.

[DarkRaichu]

Bah just I predicted a few months ago, Michelle Yeoh was NOT part of main cast and was dead by the end of the episode (granted I did not predict they were going to split the opening to 2 episodes).  I do not have enough interest or money :P to check out the 3rd episode.  Maybe I will check out the rest of episodes once the DVD is out

I actually like the Science Officer and his interactions with Yeoh and Michael.  I will be the minority here who actually want to see a ST series with these 3 as the main casts 

 

11 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

We liked the 2 episode premiere, when we saw Michelle Yeoh as special guest obviously she will be killed and Michael (why the name Michael for a girl?) will be the next captain of a new ship that will be named Discovery :P first, Michael would have to get out of jail then command Discovery then avenge Filippa and the others.

Actually, per the show creators, the series would be told from a 1st officer POV.  So presumably Michael will be a 1st officer at Discovery too.

[piequinn35]

^^Yeah that's why I crossed out the captain, I googled that Jason Isaacs is the Captain of Discovery. And writers do use male names for female characters. :D

[paigow]

5 hours ago, Vandy10 said:

I think Sarek left a little bit of his katra/self in Michael when he mind-melded with her. And she was speaking to that, not to the real Sarek light years away.

Correct. Sarek actually gave this explanation....

Burnham: WTF? Mind meld cannot be happening!

Sarek: I left a piece of my mind in you during the last meld... and it causes me great physical pain to do this- so STFU and listen to Daddy...

Edited September 27, 2017 by paigow

[TaylorTalk]

On ‎2017‎-‎09‎-‎26 at 0:53 AM, KimberStormer said:

OK I am just completely baffled by the decision to only show the first half on TV.  This was the episode the people need to see in order to want to get All Access.  Now we know what kind of show it's going to be and it looks like it could be interesting!  There's a lot I'm still not in love with (starting with the war story/militarism) but Haunted Disgraced Criminal Michael Burnham is much more interesting than Smug Asshole Michael Burnham.  I feel like there's a lot they can do with this setup.

I don't necessarily mind killing off Michelle Yeoh (it has to happen to some captain sometime, the way Starfleet captains behave) but I do think it's a terrible mistake to replace her with a white guy.  I cannot believe how much people care about Klingon makeup!

I do mind that they killed her off in the most boring fight scene possible.  This woman is one half of probably the most beautiful, elegant martial arts fight scene in cinematography history.

[DarkRaichu]

1 hour ago, qqererer said:

I do mind that they killed her off in the most boring fight scene possible.  This woman is one half of probably the most beautiful, elegant martial arts fight scene in cinematography history.

Yep, that scene was not shot to show her martial arts skills, SHAME!

Michelle Yeoh's martial arts skills aside, the coreography of that fight scene was just very lacking.  You would think a member of warrior race would be able to fight much better than that Klingon leader

[KimberStormer]

I do agree, although it's just one more example of how everything in these episodes was sort of stripped down and abstracted to almost nothing because it was all just setup for the actual show.  The "mission" at the beginning was just "two people walk, shoot into hole, the end."  The Senzhou seemed completely empty, there were only three characters.  An apparently immense feat of Klingon politics, unifying the houses, was accomplished by turning on a light and having a single conversation for no reason.  Every plan -- the bomb,  the kidnapping -- was as barebones as imaginable.  The fight was perfunctory.  All this stuff was like a series of abstract icons, like a single chess piece standing for an entire army -- like emojis in place of pages and pages of a novel -- because it wasn't there to tell the story it was telling, but merely to set up the story they are going to tell.

I don't exactly excuse this, because really good writers could have made all this stuff feel real -- like Charles Dickens can make a person you can smell in a single sentence -- but I can understand it, at least. 

[TaylorTalk]

This series seems like it threw everything in to the look, and nothing into the story.  And even with that, it seems like the art department didn't converse with the camera department.

The klingons.  Just eyes and teeth. That's it.  Everything else is a prosthetic... that can't move at all. The bridge, shot with the wrong lenses, looks so large and empty. Most bridge shots I had no idea of dimensions or space. If it was shot left to right or right to left.  And with all the work they put into the look, they shoot it five stops darker, so I can't see anything.
 

[North of Eden]

Just watched now....could write an essay but I'll just distill it down to two questions.

1. Why not just call a spade a spade....this isn't the Prime Time Line and not the Kelvan time line....just something alltogether different?

2. How did a coward like the science officer ever get into Starfleet....who would ever follow a chicken like that?

[DarkRaichu]

13 hours ago, North of Eden said:

2. How did a coward like the science officer ever get into Starfleet....who would ever follow a chicken like that?

Well, technically a science officer can graduate from the Academy as 2nd leutenant (lowest officer rank) and is never assigned any direct report. 

Also, Saru is probably the bravest among his race (cowards compared to other races) and Starfleet is about inclusion, so.... 

[CanadaPhil]

20 hours ago, North of Eden said:

Just watched now....could write an essay but I'll just distill it.....

2. How did a coward like the science officer ever get into Starfleet....who would ever follow a chicken like that?

D-I-V-E-R-S-I-T-Y. 

;)

[DarkRaichu]

Btw, have we settled on the 3 letters acronym for this series?? Will it be STD ? Or DIS ?  :D :D :D :D

[paigow]

34 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Btw, have we settled on the 3 letters acronym for this series?? Will it be STD ? Or DIS ?  :D :D :D :D

The next Klingon encounter will see the ship sustain disruptor burns on the hull..... U*****DISCO***Y

[starri]

I think DSC is the one that’s gained the widest acceptance thus far. 

[legaleagle53]

3 hours ago, starri said:

I think DSC is the one that’s gained the widest acceptance thus far. 

And I think you missed the tongue-in-cheek tone in the original post:

 

12 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Btw, have we settled on the 3 letters acronym for this series?? Will it be STD ? Or DIS ?  :D :D :D :D

[starri]

In fairness, I'm REALLY tired.

[CanadaPhil]

Star Trek: The Walking Dead

 

Now that the ghosts of Sasha & Tyreese are in space, I am looking forward to the STD/The Expanse crossover!

:D

[Unusual Suspect]

On 25/09/2017 at 11:01 PM, marinw said:

The more I think about Sarek’s relationship with Michael, the less sense it makes. Sarek’s relationship with Spock was fraught, and he had contempt for Spock’s humanity. His pain and regret over this was so palatable in the excellent TNG episodes “Sarek” and also in “Unification, Part 1”.  Yet he has formed a bond with a human girl? True, he married a human woman, so he obviously has less racism towards humans than other Vulcans. And maybe he was harder on his biological son than his adopted daughter. 

Two things:

1. I hate, with a truly unVulcan passion this trend of Star Trek to portray Vulcans as racist, or specist. This is not Discovery, this was a recurring theme of Enterprise, even DS9 got in on the action. Vulcans also originated the term "IDIC", Infinite Diversity in Infinity Combinations, and it is one of the things that I deeply connect with. I understand Humans and Vulcans having difficulty relating to each other ... but this superiority complex that many writers give Vulcans is problematic to me.

2. Admittedly, it's been too long since I watched TOS episodes with Sarek, but I never got the impression that Sarek was anti-human, or that his conflict with Spock was over his human nature. I always viewed it more that Sarek, a diplomat, was uneasy with the quasi-militaristic intent of Starfleet, at least compared to the Vulcan Science Academy. I've been doing a bit of a TOS rewatch, I shall have to skip to the Sarek episodes to get a better grasp on it. My read, at least from TNG's perspective, is that Spock and Sarek allowed that early fight to cloud their relationship for too long.

 

So, onto Sarek's portrayal in Discovery, how he relates to Michael is different than Spock, but I don't see it as inconsistent. Spock should be in Starfleet by the time Michael was assigned to the USS Shenzhou, so I would expect Sarek to have mellowed a little, or at least viewed Michael as a better fit for Starfleet than Spock.

[marinw]

34 minutes ago, Unusual Suspect said:

but I never got the impression that Sarek was anti-human

You bring up some good points. Sarak could not be that anti-human if he married two. We also don't know Amanda's role in Michael's upbringing.

But I think Vulcans do think themselves superior to humans, both technologically and socially. Or if not superior than at least more evolved in these areas. The Vulcans made first contact with Earth when Earth was recovering from World War 3, so that would colour their perceptions of us.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what happened plot-wise, because I'm still not sure what the hell just happened.

-- Klingons have an ancient relic in a debris field orbiting a binary star (one of which is a black hole) that is apparently staffed 24 x 7 and surrounded by a scattering field.
-- Klingon big bad -- in his cloaked ship -- decides to pick a fight with the Federation by shooting a hole in a comms relay station that is also near this binary star.
-- USS Shenzhou shows up to check out the non-functional relay station, they discover a scattering field in the debris and Burnham decides to go for a spacewalk to check it out.
-- Burnham finds the ancient relic, is confronted by a Klingon warrior that she "accidentally" kills, and she returns to the ship
-- Klingon funeral barge decloaks nearby the USS Shenzhou with many, many coffins attached to the outside
-- the ancient Klingon relic glows really, really bright for some reason that is never explained
-- Klingons call for backup and 24 more ships show up -- that happens to coincide with the number of Klingon houses (was one of them the House of Mogh)
-- USS Shenzhou calls for backup and a bunch of Federation ships show up, but Admiral whatever-his-name-was-since-he's-now-dead in the USS Europa had to stop off at the Space 7-11 for smokes or something.
-- Burnham consutls with Sarek and tries to shoot at the Klingons first but is denied, she nerve pinches the Captain and tries again to shoot the Klingons first but gets sent to the brig
-- Han shoots first .... correction ... the Klingons shoot first because they are apparently pissy since the Federation always says "we come in peace"
-- Lots of ships blow up real good in the fight
-- the USS Europa shows up in the nick of time to prevent the USS Shenzhou from colliding with the debris field, only for the USS Europa to be plowed into by a cloaked Klingon vessel (that proceeds to de-cloak) and the USS Europa self-destructs from a core breach
-- Burnham talks her way out of the brig with the ship's computer, and despite the fact that they show her skin and eyes freezing from exposure to space Burnham shows no ill effects
-- the Federation fleet warps away in retreat and the Klingon fleet warps away, except for the Klingon funeral barge, 
-- USS Shenzhou is dead in the water, and they plant a bomb on a dead Klingon body as it is retrieved by Klingon tractor beam which then explodes and the Klingon funeral barge is dead in the water.
-- Burnham and Georgiou beam over to kill the Klingon big bad, which Burnham does, but not before the Klingon big bad kills Georgiou
-- Burnham is beamed back to the USS SHenzhou, and them everyone hops in the escape pods and abandons the USS SHenzhou (did the rest of the Federation fleet at least leave a couple of Search and Rescue Raptors around -- whoops, wrong space show).  Did all those escape pods have warp capability -- otherwise it's going to be a long ride back to Federation space.
-- Burnham is court-martialed and sentence to prison for the rest of her life (or until the next episode)

To quote the movie 'Anchorman': "Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean that really got out of hand fast."

And it got out of hand for no apparent reason -- how long had this ancient relic been there ?  
Was it even Klingon or did the Klingons just claim it was theirs ? And why was it soooooooo bright and noisy for a time ?  And why did the Klingons just up and leave ?

[Maverick]

 Why are Klingons retrieving dead bodies, much less holding on to them for centuries?  What happened to 'you can do with the body what you wish.  It's an empty shell now'

[Pothunter]

The problem with Star Trek: Discovery is that there is no discovery. That aspect may come later, but right now it seems as if they have made a 10-hour movie rather than a sci-fi series that can last a few years. The Klingon plot should have evolved in the first season, in parallel with exploratory episodes, and these first two episodes should have been the last two of the season.

The Klingon makeup is dreadful. I pity the poor actors.

[Gregg247]

Sorry to see the Captain killed at the end, but what were they thinking, sending only the Captain and the First Officer onto the main enemy ship, searching for the main bad guy, in the middle of the battle?  They couldn't scrounge up a few redshirts to join them for the excursion?  The plan seemed needlessly risky and dumb; even Kirk would have taken more backup than that!

[tpel]

Like others, above, I was sad to see Captain Georgiou die, but not surprised, given Michelle Yeoh's guest star status. I'm not sure how I feel about Burnham. I thought her decisions were erratic, so it was hard to root for her. Yet she was still kind of engaging. I guess they didn't bother to develop the other crew members, since we won't be seeing them post Shenzhou anyway. With one exception . . . 

Saru. I think I love him. He was funny in the first episode, with his Nervous-Nelly attitude and "I smell death" doom-and-gloom mien counteracting the perky explorer approach of the others. But that's not why I love him. I love that, when actual danger and impending death arrived, he was calm, professional, and displayed good problem solving skills. That totally makes sense for prey: nervous and jumpy at the prospect that predators might be about, but once the lion has sprung the time for dithering is over and you kick your ass in gear. 

[kokapetl]

13 hours ago, Maverick said:

 Why are Klingons retrieving dead bodies, much less holding on to them for centuries?  What happened to 'you can do with the body what you wish.  It's an empty shell now'

How are all those dead Klingons even still in one piece? They died in explosions during space battles!

This show just looks so wrong. It’s too dark and stainless steely.

And generally, it’s a bad idea to have not introduced the audience to the proper weekly show and it’s characters by this point. Was the show massively retooled or something?

[shapeshifter]

14 HOURS AGO, OTTODBUSDRIVER SAID:

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what happened plot-wise, because I'm still not sure what the hell just happened.

I think you got it right except for:

14 HOURS AGO, OTTODBUSDRIVER SAID:

-- Burnham and Georgiou beam over to kill the Klingon big bad, which Burnham does, but not before the Klingon big bad kills Georgiou

The plan was to capture the big bad so he wouldn't become a martyr to rally all the Klingon factions, and so he could be a bargaining chip/hostage. 
But capturing is much trickier than blowing up, especially when the target is planning on being a martyr. 
I'm not sure the Big Bad [now dead] Klingon's plan was to be a martyr, or if that was just Michael's assessment. It was a little unclear since Big Bad's prose about the Honor of Death and the Afterlife could have just been a funeral dirge for the dead his ship had stayed behind to retrieve. Since Michael is the star/hero, we could assume her assessment was correct, but it could also have "just" been prescient. 

[TV Anonymous]

On 9/26/2017 at 8:07 PM, meeeechiganman said:

you know its too bad most of you who watched this new star trek probably didn't watch DARK MATTER over at Sy Fy, as after 3 seasons of HIGH Ratings they, for no apparent reason, cancelled it.  Its such a shame cause the writing and the acting for that show was FAR superior than discovery will be. 

How would you know? Besides, Dark Matter was clearly a low-budget show with obvious lack in SFX.

[Adira]

On 9/27/2017 at 7:21 AM, Vandy10 said:

I think Sarek left a little bit of his katra/self in Michael when he mind-melded with her. And she was speaking to that, not to the real Sarek light years away.

This would make the most sense, except the Sarek in her head specifically said he was talking to her telepathically (which he apparently could do with the help of his katra) AND even commented that it was difficult to communicate with her in this manner from so far away.

Also, seriously, Michael is a terrible Starfleet Officer.  She mutinied against her captain and then just totally fails at her job to capture T'kuvna (or whatever his name is).  They have this whole discussion about how they DON'T want to kill him because he'd become a martyr to the Klingon cause and then the second he stabs the captain, Michael's all like "DIE DIE DIE!"  I dislike her character so much...

[Sesquipedalia]

On 9/27/2017 at 1:52 PM, qqererer said:

I do mind that they killed her off in the most boring fight scene possible.  This woman is one half of probably the most beautiful, elegant martial arts fight scene in cinematography history.

This is what I came here to say! I signed up for CBS All Access because a friend of mine told me Michelle Yeoh is captain on the new Star Trek. I'm a big Yeoh fan and was excited about the idea of two women leads. My friend's got some 'splainin' to do. 

Oh well, I should have googled it first, but if she had to die, at least give her a worthy fight scene to go out on.  on. That was so boring.

[Chaos Theory]

Very late to the game.  I was finally able to watch the first two episodes and I was really surprised at the death of Captain Georgiou considering all the hoopla over two female POC leads.  Well I guess not so much now.   Honestly not sure how I feel about Michael.  I guess that's my main problem.  I am not sure how I feel about the character.  I find the idea of a human being raised by vulcan interesting and the scars that alone would leave and how she uses vulcan logic and human instinct and how in one glorous moment it just fell apart on her.   

[John Potts]

Isn't Mind Melding an unconscious person... kinda rapey?
Mind you, I'm not sure it WAS Sarek's katra "Find a way to help those who need your help"? You're trying to bolster the self confidence of somebody who just mutinied because she thought she was right!? I don't think a lack of self confidence was Michael's problem!

Convincing the computer to let her go was pretty clever.

Life Imprisonment seems a little harsh for the touchy-feely Federation, No? Particularly given her age she can expect to live over 100 years (Bones is alive at 130 in Encounter at Farpoint, IIRC). OK, I know she'll get parole for some stupid reason (probably in the next episode!) but still...

On ‎27‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 6:20 PM, paigow said:

Sarek: I left a piece of my mind in you during the last meld... and it causes me great physical pain to do this- so STFU and listen to Daddy...

If it's causing him pain to maintain the link, it sounds like it is more of a telepathic link rather than a neural clone (like Scorpius in Crichton's head - or DS9's The Passenger for a Trekkier reference). But it seems at least a little ambiguous which it's meant to be.

On ‎26‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 1:44 AM, Florinaldo said:

Has the nature of the ancient artefact/ship found in that asteroid field been explained? Has it been described as Klingon (I fear I lost interest at a few points in the episode)?

Wasn't it the wrecked ship that the Klingon martyr restored (the one that the other Klingons were playing on as boys) to launch his crusade? So a relic, but somewhat refitted (like with a cloaking device, which is definitely new). Oh, and decorated with Klingon corpses, for that cheery look.

On ‎26‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 1:14 AM, marinw said:

So why just send the Captain and First Officer over? Are there no security guards?

My thoughts exactly! I guess it IS the Kirk era, but you'd think they'd at least send over a couple of Redshirts to die horribly protect the Captain.

On ‎01‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 3:58 AM, ottoDbusdriver said:

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what happened plot-wise, because I'm still not sure what the hell just happened.

I think it was basically a false flag operation on the part of the Klingon Messiah guy (whose name I forget - and anyway, he's now dead). He sent the cloaked ship into Federation space to draw in a Federation response and manned it with a martyr (who Michael killed) to give him an excuse to attack. He then summons the other ships with the flare (presumably this was a side effect of a subspace message as a light speed message would take too long otherwise) and goes "See! They say they come in peace but they TOTALLY killed our guy! They all deserve to die! Oh, and they're a bunch of mongrels that want to sully our Klingon purity as well!" and then opens fire, including ramming the Flagship when the Admiral turns up. It seems it was a bit of a draw (why the Shenjou gets rescued) but then Michael suggests a way to resolve the situation would be to beam onto the Klingon ship to kidnap, but not kill, the Klingon leader (capture meaning dishonour, death making another martyr). Michael then proceeds to get her Captain killed AND kill the Klingon leader while the remaining vessels head home to tell all their friends, "See, the Federation just shot a bunch of our guys, let's go kick their asses!"

...at least, I think that's what happened.

[KimberStormer]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 8:44 AM, John Potts said:

OK, I know she'll get parole for some stupid reason (probably in the next episode!) but still...

Oh man this reminds me of the Star Trek Discovery in my head I made up after the premiere that would have been so amazing, where the main characters are Burnham and the rest of the prisoners on that shuttle, who get saved by super-secret ship Discovery and therefore can't be released, and are impressed into service, and slowly despite hating each other and the Federation come to be heroes and bring peace between the Federation and Klingons and earn redemption for their crimes.  A Lower Decks show as they implied Discovery was going to be, but even lower than junior lieutenants, civilian prisoners, the true underclass.  It would have been good.  I guess there was sort of a plot like this on Voyager but this was gonna be New Dark Edgy Trek! so it would have been more cynical about the Federation, etc.  My dream lasted for the 10 minutes before the other prisoners are put on a bus in the following episode....

[ketose]

Some unpopular thoughts:

Are the Klingons even speaking Klingon? Besides the cotton-mouth speaking, the KLINGON words weren't even said in Klingon. Also, Klingons don't retrieve their dead, but that captain guy could have been an aberration. Plus, where did he get a cloaking device. Also, did they use any instruments? All I saw were open fires on the "bridge."

Kind of hilarious they retconned female captains into pre-TOS Trek, then killed her off. Frankly, she kind of stunk at her job. She should have just blown up the ship with the torpedo in the transport. Plus, it would have killed off all the Klingon cultists. Did Burnham do anything right that didn't involve saving herself first?