S02.E03: Dance Dance Resolution

[Milburn Stone]

40 minutes ago, The Companion said:

I now want to open a restaurant just to use one of those names. 

In real life, here in Chicago, restaurants with "punny" names open all the time, and never make it. (With the exception of hot dog stands, which seem to require them.) So don't. :)

[arc]

36 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

Not sure if I know why a good Janet would have her powers in the Bad Place if she doesn't in the Medium Place.

The Medium Place was set up in the 1980s, so well after the initial setup of Janet and the Good and Bad Places. Maybe that’s why. Or maybe it’s just that a Janet doesn’t have powers outside her home neighborhood, like she said in S1. But then again, Bad Janet did have her powers, so either that’s an inconsistency or that Bad Janet was given an exemption by our Janet as part of a diplomatic party. If the latter, well, Mindy didn’t get her own Medium Janet, so there’s no one to give visiting Janets powers.

[Erin]

17 hours ago, DrScottie said:

I'm surprised the more higher up demons like Glenn (who was at the conference table) or Todd (the lava monster) haven't reported to Shawn about the multiple reboots. Vicki is blackmailing him so I get why she isn't.  

In the scene when all the other demons were yelling at Michael, Glenn and Vicki exchanged a look that makes me think he's in on Vicki's plan to take over. I don't know what Todd's deal is, though. 

[Tetraneutron]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

That's a good point. The thing I started wondering is why Michael even has a Janet in the first place. She isn't "in on" the gag - she thinks it's the Good Place too, apparently. If the point is to torture these four people, why provide them with someone who can give them things they really want? 

It's also weird that Eleanor and Jason both think (initially, until they figure it out) they've been accidentally sent to the Good Place, whereas Tahani and Chidi both think they belong in the Good Place. I'm not sure why two think one thing and two think another but they've all been thrown together in the same scenario.

Assuming they're all dead and can't come back to life, it seems like their best bet is to stay in the Medium Place (or whatever it's called - Middle Place?) Have we established whether or not Michael can come for them there?

And yeah . . . should we just assume Trevor and Bad Janet back in Season 1 were other demons and part of Michael's plot?

I think Michael has a Janet because all neighbourhoods have them. She's part of the architecture. And it's probably a moot point because Adam Scott is  a lead on a new show but I think, like Michael, he's some sort of senior demon. 

I know they're going to introduce new characters if the show goes on for any length of time, but I wonder if they're going to introduce new people. Will new people die and join their Bad Place? 

[Fukui San]

Memo to Mindy: Write "Bring cocaine to the Medium Place" on Janet's body with a Sharpie.

[CooperTV]

3 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

To be honest, I simply don't buy that 'hell is other people' or 'hell is your own subconscious' are worse than being tortured. Because getting used to constant, agonising torture by demons is one thing, but being more comfortable with that than you are remembering an embarrassing thing you did as a kid just doesn't make sense to me.

I mean, conditioning is definitely a thing and making people feel bad about themselves could be considered a certain kind of emotional abuse... But highly interactive reality and communication with not-that-unpleasnt individuals is what's basically the real life is. So sometimes they're reminded of shitty things from their past and even [GASP!] reflect on their behavior. But how this slightly uncomfortable environment is torture, I've no idea...

Or is The Good Place supposed to be parallel Real Life in the sense that Real Life is Hell? Are we to assume the showrunner is nihilistic individual who hates human connection and personal improvement?? (I'm joking, of course, but the world-building of the show is so confusing it's a plausible explanation).

[DrScottie]

1 hour ago, Chris24601 said:

At least 800+ versions, some of which went on for more than a hundred days... the LOW end of how long they've been there now is a decade; it could just as easily be a century or more and everyone alive when they were would also be dead. For all we know, there could have been a backlog of damned souls and they all sat in timeless Limbo for a quadrillion quadrillion years and the Heat Death of the Universe is but a distant echo in eternity.

Time is utterly irrelevant in the context of this show.

But in the lines of Ron Swanson, once you've established its been a hundred years or more on Earth then EVERYONE our main characters have ever met is somewhere in the afterlife and are all available to show up in the series at some point. Would it really shock Eleanor if she traveled to another Bad Place at some point and found her parents being forced to live in the same house with no exit for all eternity?

You're right of course.  Ron Swanson is such a great character that it would be tough to see him go from the earthly realm, but immortality as Duke Silver seems like a fitting end for a legend. 

[Anela]

I laughed so hard when Jason was the one to figure it out. "This is a new low."  When he was eating and drinking his feelings, I thought the people here were right: that he's the one being tortured this season. The hundreds of failures, people turning on him.

I like that the woman in the neutral place, kept the notes for their plans, to stop them covering old territory. 

Edited September 29, 2017 by Anela

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, CooperTV said:

I mean, conditioning is definitely a thing and making people feel bad about themselves could be considered a certain kind of emotional abuse... But highly interactive reality and communication with not-that-unpleasnt individuals is what's basically the real life is. So sometimes they're reminded of shitty things from their past and even [GASP!] reflect on their behavior. But how this slightly uncomfortable environment is torture, I've no idea...

Or is The Good Place supposed to be parallel Real Life in the sense that Real Life is Hell? Are we to assume the showrunner is nihilistic individual who hates human connection and personal improvement?? (I'm joking, of course, but the world-building of the show is so confusing it's a plausible explanation).

Remember on Angel (if you watched it, I mean)

Spoiler

When Angel takes the elevator to hell and ends up back on earth, you see the same homeless person/cart has moved a bit when the door opens. Also the movie "The Devil's Advocate" has a theme of hell on earth. Not to belabor the point but I don't think it is an uncommon theme in Hollywood productions. 

Honestly I think Michael might have wanted the nicer working environment, which is allowed when he is playing the long con. The majority of demons, apparently, have trouble delaying gratification and most of them seem to be pretty focused on their professional specialties. However, I think the idea is that one thing would lead to another. Eleanor would be so unpleasant no one would talk to her, perhaps, and she would spend eternity alone. Jason would be alone and unable to talk to anyone. Chidi....I suspect the punishment was to be loneliness, punctuated with the occasional mean giraffe. What happens when you don't have connection and personal improvement. 

[Affogato]

7 hours ago, RainbowBrite said:

I'm starting to wonder how Michael's plan could ever work long-term either...I mean if they're told they're in the Good Place, why would there be a fountain of clam chowder? Why would they be unhappy? They will obviously begin to question it every time. I guess that issue has been resolved now as they start to work with Michael, but it really hit me in this episode just how flawed Michael's original plan was. The concept is great, but I can't imagine how he would execute it. The simple fact is that the Good Place would have to be good for it to be believable.

I admit the fountain of clam chowder, which is probably full of bugs and salmonella, is pretty disgusting. It probably isn't as bad as being dismembered daily, but the smell alone must be appalling. I don't see Ted making sure the pipes are clean, either.

I think the idea is that, instead of finding each other and working together, they will each make their own hell--Chidi through indecision, Tahani through jealousy (and the eventual inability to find anything to do for others to bolster her feelings of self worth), and so on. 

[meep.meep]

But, if Daveed Diggs comes back to Hamilton, it'll mean that James Monroe Iglehart is out.  And that's a crime.

I loved Janet's ever changing, yet somehow constantly familiar clothes.

I'm starting to think this is Michael's boss's implementation of the Bad Place for Michael.

[Amarsir]

9 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Which is going to be Hell for everyone. Humans and demons alike.  Michael may have succeeded in creating a perfect hell....for everyone.  Himself included.

It will be fun to watch though.  Chidi rectify lying (because we know how much he loves lying).  Tahani and Jason keeping up with appearances.   I think the only one who might enjoy herself is Eleanor pitting her against Vicky.   Real Eleanor and Fake Eleanor take....whatever round they are on.

It will be, for while it lasts. But they're not far off from that Hell right now. I don't know if the next stage is better or worse for everyone involved, but I believe it's less sustainable.

8 hours ago, shantown said:

Actually, Eleanor mispronouncing Chidi's last name as "Ariana Grande" is what caused "Break Free" to be playing.

Now that I'm reminded of that: how did Michael know to include that in the chaos mix? We haven't seen him be omniscient of the neighborhood; in fact we've seen clear signs that he isn't. Was he intentionally eavesdropping just for day 1 of attempt 1? Because in attempt 2 he clearly wasn't.

3 hours ago, Fukui San said:

Memo to Mindy: Write "Bring cocaine to the Medium Place" on Janet's body with a Sharpie.

If they wanted to, they wouldn't have to wait for a reboot. Just send Janet on a delivery as soon as they get back. It wouldn't necessarily be a bad plan to ingratiate themselves to Mindy even more once they knew this was a repetition thing. But then again, apathetic coke fiends aren't really the powerful allies one might hope for.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Amarsir

[LoneHaranguer]

5 hours ago, Tetraneutron said:

I think Michael has a Janet because all neighbourhoods have them. She's part of the architecture.

That would have been a Bad Janet. They said near the end of last season that the Janet we'd been seeing is a Good Janet that Michael stole. I don't recall them fully explaining the difference, but I expect that Bad Janet would  be like an evil genie and give people the worst possible version of what they ask for, quickly giving away the truth, even if her attire and demeanor weren't enough.

[Anisky]

17 hours ago, arc said:

They'd need a new trick because (as per the end of the season premiere) Michael now knows that one and checks for it. Except when he's being sloppy, like forgetting to close the door before Eleanor's orientation starts.

Oh, whoops, I totally forgot about that! 

Okay then, they need to go with that sharpie idea.

6 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

In real life, here in Chicago, restaurants with "punny" names open all the time, and never make it. (With the exception of hot dog stands, which seem to require them.) So don't. :)

Wait, food stands are legal in Chicago now?! When I lived there (2005-2008) food trucks and food stands weren't legal! The city tried to have this all-night culture-and-fun type fest, but there wasn't anywhere to get food or even water because the, like, 2 restaurants that were open in the Loop were all jammed and there was NOWHERE ELSE. Please tell me they changed the law! That would be so cool!

5 hours ago, CooperTV said:

Or is The Good Place supposed to be parallel Real Life in the sense that Real Life is Hell? Are we to assume the showrunner is nihilistic individual who hates human connection and personal improvement?? (I'm joking, of course, but the world-building of the show is so confusing it's a plausible explanation).

Well, I think Michael Schur is known for injecting the literal, direct opposite of that attitude into his shows... so it would certainly be a twist! And The Good Place is now known for its twists! So, maybe. 

After last season I trust the writers a little, so I'm viewing the world building as more "has not yet been fully explained" than "intrinsically confusing", but I acknowledge  that I may be setting myself up for heartbreak.

 

2 hours ago, Amarsir said:

If they wanted to, they wouldn't have to wait for a reboot. Just send Janet on a delivery as soon as they get back. It wouldn't necessarily be a bad plan to ingratiate themselves to Mindy even more once they knew this was a repetition thing. But then again, apathetic coke fiends aren't really the powerful allies one might hope for.

I mean, her home is literally the only accessible safe haven from HELL, and the only place where their demon tormenters cannot find them. She's also the only one besides said demon tormenters who can tell them anything about the events that have been erased from their minds, or who knows how long they've been in Hell. I don't care how apathetic she is or how much she likes cocaine, her good will is incredibly valuable to them. So yeah, send that woman a boatload of cocaine, STAT! (Or more specifically, a train car full. I mean it. Fill an entire car of the train with cocaine. Hey, go for two cars. She's going to be there for eternity.)

56 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

That would have been a Bad Janet. They said near the end of last season that the Janet we'd been seeing is a Good Janet that Michael stole. I don't recall them fully explaining the difference, but I expect that Bad Janet would  be like an evil genie and give people the worst possible version of what they ask for, quickly giving away the truth, even if her attire and demeanor weren't enough.

I know this is probably getting into fanwanking territory, but maybe the only way to prevent Bad Janet from appearing in the city is to replace her with a Good Janet? Like, they need the foundational mainframe in place, so you can't remove Bad Janet or disable her without putting in another Janet?

[Wandering Snark]

I loved when everything was on a stick, even the hot dogs on a stick were on a stick.

Sushi and the Banshees will forever gain my praise, as does my love for whoever suggested to have a freakin' clam chowder fountain. There must be some crazy brainstorming among the writers. Too funny.

I liked the list of things she would substitute for cocaine... including eye shadow. Girl needs her fix!

The Janet reset/pleading montage was awesome.

Also Janet is always so glad to help out but she apparently has the same idea every time, like the 15 times at the neutral place.

[Tetraneutron]

3 hours ago, CooperTV said:

I mean, conditioning is definitely a thing and making people feel bad about themselves could be considered a certain kind of emotional abuse... But highly interactive reality and communication with not-that-unpleasnt individuals is what's basically the real life is. So sometimes they're reminded of shitty things from their past and even [GASP!] reflect on their behavior. But how this slightly uncomfortable environment is torture, I've no idea...

Or is The Good Place supposed to be parallel Real Life in the sense that Real Life is Hell? Are we to assume the showrunner is nihilistic individual who hates human connection and personal improvement?? (I'm joking, of course, but the world-building of the show is so confusing it's a plausible explanation).

Besides the obvious reason that physically torturing people for all eternity isn't exactly good TV, you'd get used to it. In real torture, people eventually die. For all eternity, it would cease to be noticeable. Being forced to confront the worst in yourself and having to know you can never experience happiness or love because of your character flaws? That would suck. Besides, we saw what gets you into the bad place isn't things like stealing or violence or voting for Trump. It's the little things, like cutting off someone in traffic or being rude or liking the Yankees. Makes sense the punishment fits the crime. 

2 hours ago, Affogato said:

I admit the fountain of clam chowder, which is probably full of bugs and salmonella, is pretty disgusting. It probably isn't as bad as being dismembered daily, but the smell alone must be appalling. I don't see Ted making sure the pipes are clean, either.

I think the idea is that, instead of finding each other and working together, they will each make their own hell--Chidi through indecision, Tahani through jealousy (and the eventual inability to find anything to do for others to bolster her feelings of self worth), and so on. 

That's it. The 4 will bring out the worst in each other. That's what Michael said in the season finale - that their personalities are uniquely suited to them making each other miserable forever. 

[possibilities]

12 hours ago, Panopticon said:

Lasagne Come Out Tomorrow.

I don't know whether to send a fan letter to the writing staff or drown myself in a clam chowder fountain so I can forget ever reading that.

I make no apologies; I love the restaurant names and I'm glad someone found and posted the longer list of ones that didn't even make it onto the show.

[sjankis630]

Quote

I laughed so hard when Jason was the one to figure it out. "This is a new low."  When he was eating and drinking his feelings, I thought the people here were right: that he's the one being tortured this season. The hundreds of failures, people turning on him.

I loved Ted Danson sitting in his office in sweats. It was a funny scene.

And don't forget ... "Bees, Bees, Bees, !!"

[Delwyn]

I loved Mindy’s sarcastic delivery of “Oh no, it’s my only copy. Don’t...”

[Isazouzi]

"It was dope. The End."

[Chaos Theory]

18 hours ago, Tetraneutron said:

Besides the obvious reason that physically torturing people for all eternity isn't exactly good TV, you'd get used to it. In real torture, people eventually die. For all eternity, it would cease to be noticeable. Being forced to confront the worst in yourself and having to know you can never experience happiness or love because of your character flaws? That would suck. Besides, we saw what gets you into the bad place isn't things like stealing or violence or voting for Trump. It's the little things, like cutting off someone in traffic or being rude or liking the Yankees. Makes sense the punishment fits the crime. 

That's it. The 4 will bring out the worst in each other. That's what Michael said in the season finale - that their personalities are uniquely suited to them making each other miserable forever. 

And it does work for awhile.  Like Michael says initially things start out well.  Chidi (Which by auto correct has been changing tho Chili lately) gets a stomach ache.  Jason hates being quiet.  Eleanor and Tahani hate each other.  (Which is why I would have LOVED to see their run around as soul mates just to see how long it lasted before Eleanor figured out she was in the Bad Place).  Its when things start to progress Michael loses control even though / because  certain trends do happen.   Eleanor searches out Chidi.   Chidi teaches Eleanor and Jason.    I think when the torture becomes less subtle Eleanor figures it out.  

And you are right.  There is torture porn but that is hardly comedy.   You can throw in a few funny lines about real life torture and the real life people who end up in the Bad Place and the torture they are going through but to actually show it would turn off most audiences who like comedy.  This would be horror and well I like horror just usually not torture porn horror. 

Having Michael be right/not right about humans is what makes this show funny.  And Ted Danson plays the roll fabulously.   Michael "understands" humans probably better then most demons do but he also is blind by our ability to adapt, survive and learn.  Which also makes this funny and the potential for an alliance between the Fab Four and Micheal all the more compelling.   This could be about "torturing" Michael but like with Eleanor it could also be about teaching him to grow.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[Bean421]

I always thought Eleanor and Chidi had a nice chemistry, but I never realized how much I wanted them together until Mindy made her porno. Burning through so many reboots was amazing. This is one of the few shows that doesn't feel completely formulaic and I'm excited to see where this season takes us. 

[tennisgurl]

I really like Eleanor and Chidi too, and I`m a bit surprised how happy I was to see them actually hooking up. No matter what happens in what reboot, they seem to find each other and connect. Maybe this is actually heading into Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind territory, and its a story about memory, as well as about the afterlife and redemption. You cant stop people from growing and connecting, no matter how hard you try, even if they dont have memories.

I still wonder if this is some kind of inside job by Janet on behalf of the real Good Place, and she is trying to redeem people with potential for good and get them into the real Good Place. Or something. 

[SopranoKris]

On 9/28/2017 at 10:04 PM, Zmanda said:

The show is just so hilarious!

 

I love Vicki!  She was wearing the best sweater. Orange with a little turtle on it... does anyone know how I can find out what brand it is?

To me, it looks like the tortise from the 70s Tootsie Pop commercials. "How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop"? 

[Chaos Theory]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I still wonder if this is some kind of inside job by Janet on behalf of the real Good Place, and she is trying to redeem people with potential for good and get them into the real Good Place. Or something. 

The Pilot episode had Janet say that she was not allowed to tell them about the "Bad Place" but she could give them an audio sample.  Janet has made allusions about them being in the bad place throughout the first season.  Its like if you said "I'm in Hell."  Janet would respond, "Right."  Or when Jason asked her to visit him the bad place she said "I literally cannot do that."  

Some of Janets remarks in the first season were incredibly clever misdirects to her being completly aware that they were all in the bad place but unable to outright tell them.  

Edited September 30, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[ThoughtAFool]

I'm still interested in attempt 108, what Michael was saying when interrupted by Eleanor's entrance:

 "Eleanor always seems to realize that they're in the Bad Place just at the moment that..."

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 9/29/2017 at 3:40 PM, Fukui San said:

Memo to Mindy: Write "Bring cocaine to the Medium Place" on Janet's body with a Sharpie.

Write it on her own body in a hidden spot. Or better yet, write "This is the Bad Place; don't let Michael know you've figured it out or he'll reboot you."  Or, maybe Memento herself!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_(film)?wprov=sfla1

On 9/29/2017 at 5:08 PM, Anela said:

I like that the woman in the neutral place, kept the notes for their plans, to stop them covering old territory. 

It was probably a welcome diversion.

[Big Mother]

I'm worried where else this show can go if an entire SEASON'S worth of plots were burned in 2 episodes.

[CherithCutestory]

Quote

I mean, conditioning is definitely a thing and making people feel bad about themselves could be considered a certain kind of emotional abuse... But highly interactive reality and communication with not-that-unpleasnt individuals is what's basically the real life is. So sometimes they're reminded of shitty things from their past and even [GASP!] reflect on their behavior. But how this slightly uncomfortable environment is torture, I've no idea...

But, in the end, it does always fail. So, it's genuinely not a very useful hell. And it doesn't even take that long. So, I don't think the show is at all endorsing the idea that this is genuinely worse than torture.

Michael Schur isn't Jean-Paul Sarte. His worlds tend to be pretty optimistic.

Michael doesn't have much respect for or fondness toward humans. So he thinks this will work. But it doesn't. Because humans aren't static. They don't just torture each other. They learn from each other and grow.

At least in this world.

[piewarmer]

Just stopping by to post (or re-post, if someone already did and i somehow missed it) this pic, which makes me laugh over and over again. Chidi's face!

 

[DrScottie]

I'm wondering what would happen if they brought things to the Medium Place for Mindy. She's doomed to mediocrity with warm beer, the jukebox that just plays covers by the Eagles, and the tape that was formerly Cannonball Run II etc. She never expected any visitors to see her. 

Jason had a whole entertainment system in his budhole that Janet got for him. Janet can get anything, but would that cease to work in the Medium Place? If they loaded the train with a refrigerator for the warm beer, a high definition TV with a Blu-ray player and movies / TV shows., would it work in Mindy's house? 

Of course, there's the cocaine too. Would it enter the Medium Place as powdered sugar or something else? Well, Mindy would still snort it anyway. It doesn't matter as she's dead already. 

[clack]

I don't see why having to continuously reboot the 4 would would be considered a bug, and not a feature.

You get to "torture" them for, say, 50 days or so before they figure out they're in the Bad Place. You then mind-wipe them, and then get to inflict another 50 days of psychological distress, reboot again, and so on, forever.

Why would 100 straight days of torment be considered a success, but 50 + 50 be seen as a failure? Doesn't it amount to the same thing?

And at this point, it's been over 800 reboots. That's been, what? maybe 100 years of psychological torment? Isn't Michael's grand scheme actually working, even if it's not as he originally planned it?

[biakbiak]

15 minutes ago, clack said:

Why would 100 straight days of torment be considered a success, but 50 + 50 be seen as a failure? Doesn't it amount to the same thing?

No because to them it's actually only 50 days they remember,  the point is also for eternity not 100 days.

[theatremouse]

44 minutes ago, clack said:

Why would 100 straight days of torment be considered a success, but 50 + 50 be seen as a failure? Doesn't it amount to the same thing?

And at this point, it's been over 800 reboots. That's been, what? maybe 100 years of psychological torment? Isn't Michael's grand scheme actually working, even if it's not as he originally planned it?

Because the premise of his experiment was "they are perfectly suited to torture each other". And I think he may have even argued they would do so for a thousand years. Unless some of the reboots did last hundreds of years, which I doubt, I think it's implied they lasted maybe at the most as long as the first attempt but probably not much more, by his own (and accepted by Shawn for approving the experiment in the first place) standard, his experiment has failed, repeatedly. Hell, he doesn't know it but the "I love you video" extra proves it. They're not torturing each other for long, they're bonding. And if they're figuring out they're being tortured, by the place not each other, the experiment also failed. Or at the very least, succeeded in disproving Michael's hypothesis.

[Garden Wafers]

1 hour ago, clack said:

I don't see why having to continuously reboot the 4 would would be considered a bug, and not a feature.

You get to "torture" them for, say, 50 days or so before they figure out they're in the Bad Place. You then mind-wipe them, and then get to inflict another 50 days of psychological distress, reboot again, and so on, forever.

Why would 100 straight days of torment be considered a success, but 50 + 50 be seen as a failure? Doesn't it amount to the same thing?

And at this point, it's been over 800 reboots. That's been, what? maybe 100 years of psychological torment? Isn't Michael's grand scheme actually working, even if it's not as he originally planned it?

If I remember correctly, Michael's grand experiment basically had two purposes: (a) provide entertainment for the Bad Place employees and (b) improve efficiency by having the humans torture each other with only minimal demonic assistance for 1000 years. Shawn predicted the humans would only torture each other for six months. In any case, it seems like Michael's experiment has fallen well short of expectations. 

[Kromm]

On 9/28/2017 at 9:17 PM, Terrafamilia said:

Sushi and the Banshees

I wasn't expecting them to rip through scores of resets in just one episode. I eager to see what sort of changes Vicky/Denise wants to make.

I was.

I kind of expected where this episode would go after the setup of last episode, up to and including Michael's offer.

That said, the gravy here is in the execution. It was done pretty much perfectly. Hilarious jokes, actual characterization, "Real Eleanor" or Vicky or whatever her name is being a great foil for Michael, Jason just being Jason, Janet just being utterly perfect.  This was so forking good.

Now the actual nitty gritty details of them fooling Sean will be interesting. They also presumably have to fool all of the other Demons too, especially Vicky.

And I'm going to call it now. The "fooling everyone" stage won't be permanent either. There will be another premise reset coming. What I can't even begin to call is when. It could be one episode from now, it could be the end of the season. I honestly have no idea. But this premise won't go past this season.

8 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

The Pilot episode had Janet say that she was not allowed to tell them about the "Bad Place" but she could give them an audio sample.  Janet has made allusions about them being in the bad place throughout the first season.  Its like if you said "I'm in Hell."  Janet would respond, "Right."  Or when Jason asked her to visit him the bad place she said "I literally cannot do that."  

Some of Janets remarks in the first season were incredibly clever misdirects to her being completly aware that they were all in the bad place but unable to outright tell them.  

Very good observations! I hadn't realized a lot of this.

Although it's worth noting that Janet isn't the only mechanism used to drop hints like that. Sometimes they just dropped out of character's mouths unprompted. For example, Jason is the one who speculates once that they're "on a prank show". And you know... they totally were. And even within this most recent episode we got a weird predictor of what was coming later in the same episode. We saw that one plan to defeat Michael was "Make Michael think he’s the one in the Bad Place". Guess what?  If you think about it, that plan kind of happened. His new "be buddies" idea is as much about him being at the end of his rope as it was about Vicky's attempt at blackmail.  He was the recipient of psychological torture as much as them, in a way.

I think this is always going to be a feature of the writing of this show. We're going to get verbal hints dropped for what's coming.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Kromm

[Kromm]

On 9/29/2017 at 9:13 AM, CooperTV said:

For a show about Hell and torturing of sinners The Good Place has surprisingly low stakes. The last episode's memory wipe-out was completely predictable. This episode's over 800 of the wipe-outs were even more predictable, as Michael's finale decision to (probably pretend) to work together with the main characters.

I don't care enough for The Bad Place's BHS drama to be that invested in the demons' strike or Michael's depression, and the writers aren't giving me enough of the characters I like to still be invested in their struggles. We barely had Tahani last week, we barely had Chidi this time and practically no Tahani at all. But sure, we're supposed to root for Chidi/Eleanor, even though the show made them into stick figures.

Meh.

PS: Mind-wipes creeps me out and I don't find it funny at all.

I will agree (which I suspect many other won't) that some of what's happened are things I totally expected--at the very least once I saw the direction Episode 1 has steered us towards. That's kind of been a pattern with me. I guessed that the Good Place was the Bad Place really early last season, for example, and even a good deal of how that would play out. But in Episode 1 of this season I was somewhat surprised and delighted that they did the equivalent of burning through a whole season in one episode. But when Episode 1 ended I kind of said to myself "next episode they'll probably reboot the world a whole bunch of times". And a poster last week mentioned that they thought they'd wind up teaming up with Michael, and I kind of though, "yeah, I bet they'll do that eventually". I did think it wouldn't be for a few weeks though.

That said, I don't think we are also on the same page about how successful it's been. I think it's been wildly successful. You don't seem as happy with it.

As for Tahani and Chidi, I have full confidence we are going to get much more of them soon. I think this episode was mainly a "Michael and Eleanor" story. The others will get feature episodes too.

[arc]

3 hours ago, biakbiak said:

No because to them it's actually only 50 days they remember,  the point is also for eternity not 100 days.

Yeah. If I promise you a top that will spin for an hour, and it falls over after a minute max, you probably won’t be impressed if I say “you can just keep restarting the top every minute and you’ll get to an hour.” The dream Michael has is for a hell powered by the humans themselves. It’s a more subtle and devious punishment than the traditional Bad Place, but also one that should result in less effort by the Bad Place denizens. If they’re constantly resetting back to the initial high-effort stage of the project, then his project cannot be judged a success even if he’s hidden it from Shawn for 802 attempts.

[biakbiak]

I forgot to mention that I enjoyed that Jason's good place contains the NFL Red Zone channel, it's crack but is annoying when you just want to watch an actual game.

[Ceindreadh]

9 hours ago, Garden Wafers said:

If I remember correctly, Michael's grand experiment basically had two purposes: (a) provide entertainment for the Bad Place employees and (b) improve efficiency by having the humans torture each other with only minimal demonic assistance for 1000 years. Shawn predicted the humans would only torture each other for six months. In any case, it seems like Michael's experiment has fallen well short of expectations. 

If they’re using 300+ demons to torture 4 humans, it’s not really very efficient. 

Heck, putting 300 humans and 4 demons would probably be just as effective long term. All any society needs to implode is just a few strategically placed shit-stirrers. 

[Milburn Stone]

Re the need for efficiency, a "factoid" in my brain helps justify it. I think I remember hearing that due to the growth of earth's population, there are as many people alive right now as all the dead people who have ever lived. If the trend continues, all the Afterlife Places are going to be completely overloaded with new admissions in very short order. There won't be enough already-dead-torturers (if the torturers are indeed previously-alive humans, which I'm not sure about) to handle the crush.

Whether Michael's original brainstorm actually makes sense in terms of achieving efficiency, I don't know, but I can see why the Eternity PTB will have to come up with something.

[Mabinogia]

1 minute ago, Milburn Stone said:

Whether Michael's original brainstorm actually makes sense in terms of achieving efficiency, I don't know, but I can see why the Eternity PTB will have to come up with something.

I'm guessing that eventually the idea would be to faze out the demons in the town which would make things very efficient. The freshly dead would be torturing each other. Less demons are required. Given that more and more people will be dying, this does make sense. If Michael can get the program running properly, there would only be a few demons per town to supervise. It's self service torture. It's actually pretty brilliant if he can get it to work.

[axlmadonna]

On 9/29/2017 at 1:00 PM, The Companion said:

I now want to open a restaurant just to use one of those names.

I want to eat at Pot Pie the Sailor Man right now. 

[Garden Wafers]

1 hour ago, Ceindreadh said:

If they’re using 300+ demons to torture 4 humans, it’s not really very efficient. 

Heck, putting 300 humans and 4 demons would probably be just as effective long term. All any society needs to implode is just a few strategically placed shit-stirrers. 

Oh, I totally agree. I get the impression that the demons were originally supposed to be audience members enjoying the show; demons like Vicky got the occasional audience participation plot for funsies. Now, Michael's plan essentially has them working overtime to keep up the illusion. I wouldn't blame Shawn one bit for shutting down the entire operation. 

 

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

I'm guessing that eventually the idea would be to faze out the demons in the town which would make things very efficient. The freshly dead would be torturing each other. Less demons are required. Given that more and more people will be dying, this does make sense. If Michael can get the program running properly, there would only be a few demons per town to supervise. It's self service torture. It's actually pretty brilliant if he can get it to work.

At that point, isn't Michael just recreating Earth? The only exception is the citizens are probably enjoying a higher standard of living than they ever did in real life. 

[clack]

I think there is still another rug pull waiting to happen. Is Eleanor really the one-in-a-billion perfect choice to torment Chidi, and vice versa? Eleanor and Tahini? Chidi and Jason?

They're all about the same age, they're all physically attractive, they roughly share the same cultural referents, and though their differences are enough to irritate one another, they never flat-out hate each other. In fact, I feel that it's possible that Chidi and Eleanor are indeed genuinely soul-mates.

[Winston Wolfe]

11 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

there are as many people alive right now as all the dead people who have ever lived.

Believe it or not, I remember Thanos pointing that factoid out in an old Adam Warlock comic book.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Winston Wolfe

[Fukui San]

11 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

If they’re using 300+ demons to torture 4 humans, it’s not really very efficient. 

Heck, putting 300 humans and 4 demons would probably be just as effective long term. All any society needs to implode is just a few strategically placed shit-stirrers. 

Yes, if we think about the economics of this at all, it falls apart quickly. We just have to put that part of our brains away. Unless there are a surplus of demons and this is a Works Progress Administration type of deal.

However, we have some clues from last season to see if this demon to human ratio is different than usual. When we met "Real" Eleanor for the first time, she told her version of hell which was intended for "Fake" Eleanor in which she had to organize a party for someone she didn't know, then she transitioned into traditional painful tortures. If this can be taken at face value, she was given a customized torment featuring a fake reality that drove her anxieties, and then she was given physical torture. If everyone is given that amount of attention, the ratio probably isn't 300:1 demon to human but it might be something like 25:1.

It's really amazing how many resources they're putting into punishing people. They must have a limitless budget, or else they'd intentionally put a lot of folks in The Middle Place. That requires almost no demon supervision.

[NJRadioGuy]

19 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

They must have a limitless budget, or else they'd intentionally put a lot of folks in The Middle Place. That requires almost no demon supervision.

Where do you think all the CEOs, investment bankers, hedge fund administrators and corporate attorneys go? I'm just surprised they haven't outsourced to cheaper demons from a foreign universe.

[Ailianna]

I love how Jason's face really lights up and he's absolutely beautiful when someone is nice to him.  When he figured it out, and when Michael told him he gives good advice.  Really adorable.

[Tetraneutron]

12 hours ago, Fukui San said:

Yes, if we think about the economics of this at all, it falls apart quickly. We just have to put that part of our brains away. Unless there are a surplus of demons and this is a Works Progress Administration type of deal.

However, we have some clues from last season to see if this demon to human ratio is different than usual. When we met "Real" Eleanor for the first time, she told her version of hell which was intended for "Fake" Eleanor in which she had to organize a party for someone she didn't know, then she transitioned into traditional painful tortures. If this can be taken at face value, she was given a customized torment featuring a fake reality that drove her anxieties, and then she was given physical torture. If everyone is given that amount of attention, the ratio probably isn't 300:1 demon to human but it might be something like 25:1.

It's really amazing how many resources they're putting into punishing people. They must have a limitless budget, or else they'd intentionally put a lot of folks in The Middle Place. That requires almost no demon supervision.

These are supernatural entities. I don't think money is an issue. They don't have a "budget" at all. 

Besides, they were very specific about what the Middle Place is for. It's not for people who've led average lives. It's for people with extraordinary circumstances about the lives they led. Mindy used all her money to establish a foundation that helps millions - easy Good Place stuff. But she died before she could carry it out. Does she get the credit or not?