S19.E39: Finale, Winner Revealed

[ProfCrash]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/09/21/big-brother-finale-how-did-this-contestant-implode-after-playing-a-near-perfect-game/?hpid=hp_no-name_hp-in-the-news%3Apage%2Fin-the-news&utm_term=.1b1f443168a6

 

Love the title "‘Big Brother’ finale: How did this contestant implode after playing a near-perfect game?"

[JudyObscure]

6 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Given that, it's going to be very difficult for anyone to catch [Raven] in any evil deeds and slap the cuffs on her.

One thing  for sure, as the guards walk her out of the court room, she'll beam from ear to ear and give a gigantic high kick.

 

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

 I never wanted Josh to win, because IMO he was the biggest bully in the house.  When your an adult you own your own shit.  I don't care if anyone put Josh up to bullying anyone or not.  Josh did what he did all on his own.

I agree.  My joy at watching Paul lose was overshadowed by my disgust at watching Josh win. Josh loves to tell us that he's a smart man with a college degree and his own business.  I refuse to view him as a pre-teen who has some growing up to do.  He was awful to men who weren't in a position to defend themselves, even worse to women, cheating at games, hating and name calling for the pure fun of it right up through Kevin's eviction.  No amount of girlish gestures or  babyish bawling changes any of that.  Lots of bullies are weak and tearful when it comes to their own selves, in fact, it's classic.

There was really no one to root for this season and the final two were the two worst people in the house.  The show doesn't have to be this way.  Survivor casts it's show from  the same pool of people  and manages to make most seasons inspiring at least in part, even if the endings are sometimes frustrating.  Big Brother just doesn't want to show us decent people and thinks we enjoy watching Raven's shrill screaming and Josh's pot banging.   Next year I'm going to find something else to watch if I have to learn to love golf.

[ghoulina]

16 minutes ago, eurekagirl mOo said:

Party of One----So sad Paul lost. He played the best game and that should have been the deciding factor. Josh was a big baby (who cries that much!) who was obnoxious and a way worse bully than Paul ever was.

Personally, I think Paul is way more gross than Josh, because he USED Josh to bully others FOR him. Josh did that stupid pots and pans thing once, and then every time there was a little conflict, Paul encouraged him to bring them back out. He riled him up. He riled them all up, calling them his "dogs" and basically siccing them on Jody or Melena. If someone went off to be by themselves, Paul would be like - "Come on everybody!" Then he'd sit back and watch as Josh acted like a lunatic and Alex and Raven yelled at people. He was a mad dictator. And I ended up feeling sorry for Josh, because I suspect he has some emotional issues that Paul took pure advantage of. 

 

20 minutes ago, Ananayel said:

I need a Survivor type reunion, in which people address what they've found out since the show, but I know we'll never get it.

This show could stand to learn a FEW things from Survivor. I wish we had more of a free-flowing, dramatic jury discussion on BB, like the final Tribals on Survivor. The agreed upon questions, being read off a card, with no back and forth really doesn't work for me. 

[illini1959]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I thought she said something like, "No one wanted to use Christmas' body".  What does that even mean?  I know I am taking it one way, but I am not sure that it was meant to be taken the way  I am taking it.  That just made me hate Alex even more.

I thought she said something to the effect of "When Christmas couldn't use her body" she took her game in another direction. 

My 2 thoughts are, 1 - when Cody was IN the house, it seemed like everyone (viewers) hated him. Why all the love now? I get that he was the only one Paul couldn't control, but that was his only redeeming attribute, wasn't it? He clearly didn't want to be in the house or in the jury house, hated all the other house guests (can't blame him there) but HE chose to be on BB. So, guess I'm missing something :)

2 - I'm not a Paul fan, not at all. But, from my standpoint, he played the game every.single.second. he was in the house. Someone up thread said they wished people would vote FOR someone instead of AGAINST someone, and I agree. Not that he would've won, but like someone - sorry my memory is so bad! - Raven? said - true he had help the first few weeks but after that?? THEY kept him in the house, they had plenty of chances to get rid of him. 

Aside from all that, did anyone notice at the end when all the hugging/mugging was going on, Kevin's arm was stuck between 2 people?? He literally had to yank his arm out! And he didn't look too thrilled about it, either ;) 

[Boilergal]

The  only thing that could have made Josh's goodbye messages montage better -  if they did the Paul GBM Lie first, and Josh's follow up.

Jury Management is a BIG part of the game, and that is where Paul sucked and lost.

At one point Cody said something like - he would have to vote for Paul or the person that evicts him - so I thought for sure when Cody said he was keeping his promise it was a vote for Paul.  

I needed a cigarette after that vote was revealed - and I don't smoke!

[BlackMamba]

imma beat eric's ass ?

Paul will be forever haunted not taking this guy F2 

Edited September 21, 2017 by BlackMamba

[watch2much]

40 minutes ago, Ananayel said:

I have to disagree that Paul played a better game and so deserved to win. Jury management is crucial, and he blew it. He lied when he didn't need to, manipulated when he didn't need to, didn't own his gameplay, and somewhat fell into the trap that woman from Survivor did (Dawn?) When you make people feel so intensely personal about your situation, and they believe that it transcends game, they take the inevitable betrayal very badly.

I agree completely.  This idea that winning the most comps and vetos makes you the best player is stupid.  the jury is comprised of people who weren't able to do that but felt they had a right to win the money, too.  I knew when the jury began to question him there was hope he would lose.  He took responsibility for nothing.  The bullying--it wasn't him.  the final 2 promises, he never said he wasn't playing for himself.  His goodbye message are what killed it for him.  instead of trying to to tell them he had nothing to do with it, he should have been stroking ego...telling them what strong players they were and how much their friendship means to him.  

the best player and the one deserving to win is the one who can do everything, including placating a bitter jury.  I'm not a fan of Josh, but it was clear he was easily manipulated and since the jury were all manipulated by Paul, they could understand how Josh would be.  but Josh took responsibility and apologized.  His sincerity came out.

and all of a sudden Paul would be able to "clear some financial burdens" with the money.  Hey, I remember his mother saying last year she wanted him to win so he could buy her a Bentley and she was being shown waking her son as she did every day in the huge house.

all in all it made him look like the weasel he is instead of the mastermind he thinks he is.

and Columbus Day, when she said her mother told her to "kill them with kindness" I almost fell off the chair.  was that when she was cackling as people were bullied?  and then she hopes people see that despite her broken foot she prevailed--yes, as long as people threw comps to you and you did nothing but cozy up to Paul.

Paul, Paul, Paul, you should have taken Matt--no one would voted for him.  

you didn't deserve to win because you are too narcissistic, egotistical, and lack empathy or insight.

Edited September 21, 2017 by watch2much
spelling

[Vixenstud]

*Listening to the birds sing, happy that all is well in Puppet Land once again*

CHILE, what an ending to a sucky season!!

First, let me give a shout out to Paul via this lovely clip from 1976’s Carrie:

 

 

 

Maaaaaaaaaaaan, when that fool lost $500,000 for a second time I howled like a banshee!  And the non-vote came from CODY, who won AFP!!  AND he lost to someone who he constantly talked down to and used as a howling monkey for his own game purposes!!  What poetic justice and couldn’t have happened to a nicer hobbit. 

Frankly, I thought Paul had it in the bag….I thought Jalex would have swallowed their bitterness and voted for him but I guess not.  Elena’s vote surprised me too. 

While I hated Josh’s bullying tactics and endless need to be one of the ‘cool’ kids, I was happy for his win.  When he evicted Winter Wonderland I kept screaming at the screen, so sure he was going to lose; but shit, it wouldn’t have matter who sat next to him at the end he would have won anyway.  I do hope that Josh sees this season and tries to make amends with some of the HG's like Mark/Elena/Kevin.

Loved Jessica’s ‘I told you so!’ to all the HG’s but it would have been sweeter to have Dominique chime in, especially to Alex….’So Alex, you did a runteldat to Paul about me calling him a snake, how did that work out for you, hun?’

When Cameron spoke I kept getting visions of Cindy Brady in my head….yes, I’m going to hell, but his lisp was distracting, sorry.

Wished Mark instead of Jason would have been one of the finalists in AFP….liked watching Alex’s face when Kevin’s name was mentioned.

HG’s I hope never darken my screen again:  Alex, Lying Raven and her Spoogeboy Matt, Jason, Elena, Dominique and Tinsel.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Vixenstud

[BlackMamba]

3 minutes ago, watch2much said:

 

you didn't deserve to win because you are two narcissistic, egotistical, and lack empathy or insight.

I agree. 

I didn't like him last year because of this very reason.  How he treated Tiffany when she cried the weeks she was on the block  (along with Davonne ?) last season showed me what a prick he could be.  

Will said it best to Julie last night that even though Paul did everything right gamewise he treated the houseguests like they were disposable and didn't at least pretend to be sorry for taking their 500G dreams away.  

Last year,  I had more of his back in F2 because he was an underdog, won comps as the target and wasn't a production pet.  That's why many fans loved him last year especially when he and Frank had their rivalry  -  Frank was a production pet. 

This season I was happy he lost.  As a vet with all the advantages: production influence,  weak cast and  weak twists.  He should had been able to win if managed the jury, showed some empathy for cutting others, not breaking many promises and own his moves.  It shouldn't been hard this time around. 

[Pondlass1]

14 minutes ago, illini1959 said:

But, from my standpoint, he played the game every.single.second. he was in the house.

He was playing with showmances and sheep, tho.  The smartest thing Paul did was to isolate sets of partners so they talked Game with no one but each other and HIM. (Sometimes the isolation was deliberately cruel and Xmas was only too keen to go along which makes her not very nice IMO)

[BlackMamba]

8 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

He was playing with showmances and sheep, tho.  The smartest thing Paul did was to isolate sets of partners so they talked Game with no one but each other and HIM. (Sometimes the isolation was deliberately cruel and Xmas was only too keen to go along which makes her not very nice IMO)

Yeah but I will say about Xmas had she made F2 she definitely could had taken some votes from Paul too.  Big Brother is a social experiment.  Christmas worked her social game So well so Alex didn't put her and Josh up on  DE.  Paul did better had he aligned with Matt and Raven but those assholes coasted and could never win shit.

Edited September 21, 2017 by BlackMamba

[MrHufflepuff]

2 hours ago, Blissfool said:

Bitter Jury = Bitter Paul

He told Julie, "They will have to live with their votes."

Yeah, I doubt there will be any regrets.

I'm sure it will be like this..

- EIGHTY YEARS IN THE FUTURE -

Cody lays on his hospital bed, weak, frail, hooked up to machines.  A tired Jess sits next to him, holding his hand.   Cody stirs.  His lips move.  He is trying to say something, but he is too weak.  Jess leans over to press her ear to his lips.  With his last breath, Cody manages to say his final words: "I should have voted for Paul."

Cody gasps and is gone.  Jess nods, in sadness, but more in relief.  For Cody's words of regret have managed to soothe her in her time of loss.  "Yes," she says to herself quietly, "yes, you should have."

- AND SCENE! -

[Racj82]

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Random thoughts, and other useless crap.

As was said above, Paul was coming into the house no matter what.  There is no way that he would be sitting around all summer long just in case he would be brought onto the show.

I hope some of you can go back and listen to what Alex said about Christmas when the jury was gathered around Doctor Will. 

I thought she said something like, "No one wanted to use Christmas' body".  What does that even mean?  I know I am taking it one way, but I am not sure that it was meant to be taken the way  I am taking it.  That just made me hate Alex even more.

Alex came off as incredibly petty and couldn't let go of the fact that Paul wasn't going to take her to the final three.  Yes, he lied to her.  Being lied to is part of the game.  Grow up.

I don't think the jury is that deep.  I don't think any of the jury questions mattered.  They were all just so bitter, because Paul didn't take them to the end.  Yes, Paul had the three eviction safety.  That wasn't something he earned.  It was given to him by an outside force.  I hated it.  I can't fault him for  getting it.

Most of the house guests looked like fools for not playing the game all season long.  Then,  when they get exposed for looking like fools, some of them doubled down on looking bad by voting for Josh. 

I would have rather had Paul win, because after the first three weeks, he earned it.  Granted, without that three week free from eviction gift, maybe Paul isn't in the game.  It is hard to tell, because the house was full of people that didn't seem to want to play the game.

 I never wanted Josh to win, because IMO he was the biggest bully in the house.  When your an adult you own your own shit.  I don't care if anyone put Josh up to bullying anyone or not.  Josh did what he did all on his own.

The winner of this show isn't supposed to be the one who needs the money the most.  That shouldn't factor into the equation at all.  I don't know if Josh needs the money or not. 

The only person who came off looking good tonight is Christmas.  She didn't embarrass herself.  She was self aware about her behavior in the house.

What color is the sky in Raven's world?  IMO, she looked like she was totally out of it.  Matt was acting weird too.

Mark seems like a nice guy, but he does occasionally have outbursts that are more than a bit over the top.  Short fuse.

ETA:  I felt bad for Cameron, I don't know why some members of the jury laughed at him.  I was hoping that he would win AFP.  I thought Cody acted like an ass both inside and outside of the BB house.  I hate to see him rewarded for it.

In regards to the using Christmas body thing, Alex said use her for her body meaning be there comp beast and control who people may have wanted to go home that way. That wasn't an option because she barely played them for obvious reasons so she had to turn to social game.

[TresGatos]

Quote

Elena’s vote surprised me too. 

There was a moment in the Jury questioning of Paul, I think it was when he was trying to deny final 2 deals, when Elana looked back at Mark and I just sensed Paul had lost both their votes.

[Vixenstud]

12 hours ago, Mumbles said:

How did Jason get more AFH votes than Mark?

 

I didn't like that at all, especially given his rape comments.....it should have been Cody, Mark and Kevin as the finalists.

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Random thoughts, and other useless crap.

As was said above, Paul was coming into the house no matter what.  There is no way that he would be sitting around all summer long just in case he would be brought onto the show.

I hope some of you can go back and listen to what Alex said about Christmas when the jury was gathered around Doctor Will. 

I thought she said something like, "No one wanted to use Christmas' body".  What does that even mean?  I know I am taking it one way, but I am not sure that it was meant to be taken the way  I am taking it.  That just made me hate Alex even more.

Alex came off as incredibly petty and couldn't let go of the fact that Paul wasn't going to take her to the final three.  Yes, he lied to her.  Being lied to is part of the game.  Grow up.

I think she meant no one was using her for her athletic ability but I agree. I rooted for Alex to win the first week but she turned out to be a horrible person. 

[Gummo]

Best possible end to a horrible season. 

 

The lesson?

 

Jurors can accept being lied to for game purposes. They won't accept being publicly humiliated for no good reason except to feed the ego of a little hairy homunculus. 

[GalvDuck]

I've done a search and I can't find any updates.  

Do we know if Josh's home fared okay after Irma?  

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, illini1959 said:

My 2 thoughts are, 1 - when Cody was IN the house, it seemed like everyone (viewers) hated him. Why all the love now? I get that he was the only one Paul couldn't control, but that was his only redeeming attribute, wasn't it? He clearly didn't want to be in the house or in the jury house, hated all the other house guests (can't blame him there) but HE chose to be on BB. So, guess I'm missing something :)

I never hated Cody. I thought he made some dumbass game moves in the beginning. But at least he TRIED. If he played a season with different players, I might have lambasted him harder for his game play. But compared to these morons who were happy to lay down and die for their master, Cody did alright, to me. 

Game play aside, I didn't mind him as a person. I actually appreciated that he couldn't be fake and wouldn't hold court the way some HOHs did. He has a temper, but he's also a Marine who's served overseas and I think he's likely doing his best. 

23 minutes ago, Vixenstud said:

I didn't like that at all, especially given his rape comments.....it should have been Cody, Mark and Kevin as the finalists.

That's what I was expecting. I actually voted for both Mark and Cody. Jason....even if I hadn't seen some of the stuff he said/did when perusing the Feed thread, I just never found him to be that likeable. He was kind of an idiot and just let Alex lead him around by the nose. And she's not that bright either, so I just found him quite pathetic overall. Hated his stupid Whistlenut shirt and the way he was way too close, for a married man, to Alex. 

 

19 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Thank you for further clarification.  I have got to get my mind out of the gutter.

I don't think it's your fault. The way Alex worded it does kind of give that impression. She's no wordsmith. 

[ProfCrash]

OK, The Cody/Jessica interview on Rob Has a Podcast was great.

[YouKnowNothing]

To begin, Christmas is absolutely gorgeous. When they first showed her sitting on that bench during part 3 of the final HOH, she is just stunning! But then you remember her stank ass personality and it kind of ruins it. Speaking of ruining things, Raven. I love when Mark called her out before the round table even got started. What I really noticed about her in that segment though is that her attitude regarding Big Brother is what's ruining the game. The point of Big Brother is not to lie, manipulate, and backstab your way to the top. Primarily because that's just ONE strategy in a sea full of strategies. You do not have to isolate the determined evictee, belittle them, and bully them. In fact, Alex summed up why that is not the end-all-be-all strategy when she voted for the person who STABBED HER IN THE FRONT, NOT THE BACK. It is way easier in general to forgive people like Josh who get up in your face and then apologize for it than it is to forgive someone who basically said and did the same things behind your back and made you look like a damn fool (and isn't even a little bit sorry for it!). Which is why I'm totally cool with the jury voting the way they did. Essentially, they got to choose whose bad behavior to excuse and the majority chose to forgive Josh, not Paul. That's the SOCIAL part of the game that is so often over-looked. One of the BB veterans said that if Paul loses, he deserved to lose because of bad jury management.... and he did. And I won't call the jury members petty or bitter. I'll call them human. 

Edited September 21, 2017 by YouKnowNothing

[Mumbles]

Quote

I don't think it's your fault. The way Alex worded it does kind of give that impression. She's no wordsmith. 

Plus I still remember her goodbye message when Jess was voted out, how she (Alex) planned to keep Cody company in her absence. Alex could be pretty gross. 

[TOL]

2 hours ago, Mumbles said:

As for Cody's "promise" that he alluded to when casting his vote, I think he told Paul flat out in the house that he would never vote for him to win

 

This is interesting. I think that could make sense considering how brutally honest Cody is.  

The other thing I was thinking is that he gave Jess a (bitter) promise before she left.  From the jury round table I think he grudgingly admired Paul's game, and it appears that Jess did as well after watching it unfold from home.  

In any case, I was surprised by his vote.

[ProfCrash]

LOL the Raven interview is awesome. She is beyond delusional. She totally missed that Rob was mocking her with her many illnesses. She has getting married while her Mom is alive in #1 on her bucket list.

[Callaphera]

6 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

What color is the sky in Raven's world?  IMO, she looked like she was totally out of it.  Matt was acting weird too.

Green, of course! For Gastroparesis! 

ETA: If y'all didn't know I was going to make that joke, shame on you.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Callaphera

[backformore]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Personally, I think Paul is way more gross than Josh, because he USED Josh to bully others FOR him. Josh did that stupid pots and pans thing once, and then every time there was a little conflict, Paul encouraged him to bring them back out. He riled him up. He riled them all up, calling them his "dogs" and basically siccing them on Jody or Melena. If someone went off to be by themselves, Paul would be like - "Come on everybody!" Then he'd sit back and watch as Josh acted like a lunatic and Alex and Raven yelled at people. He was a mad dictator. And I ended up feeling sorry for Josh, because I suspect he has some emotional issues that Paul took pure advantage of. 

Yeah, I kept thinking about one clip were Paul encouraged Raven to bully someone (probably Mark, but maybe Cody?)  and as soon as she did, she turned to Paul who kissed her on the forehead and said something like "good girl, I'm proud of you."  It was a weird moment, because I felt like Paul tapped into Raven's need for a paternal figure's approval.  Raven didn't come up with "puppet master"  on her own.  Paul must have, at some point, told her that the 2 of them were the smartest ones in the house, and were the  puppet masters who could control everything..

The same way, he tapped into Josh's sensitivity about bullying.   Josh saw others as "bullies"  and defended his own outrageous behavior as fighting back against bullies.  

With Alex, it was fairly easy to unleash her weird sociopathy on others - It didn't take much to cause her to HATE someone.  

And several times, when HG's were evicted, Paul gave them a hug, said he loved them, and deflected the blame, even though he had orchestrated their eviction.  Once they had a chance to think about it, each HG could see that Paul had clearly directed every other ouster, so why think he wasn't also being the puppet master behind theirs?  

And I think at the end, Paul thought he was sitting pretty because he thought he had orchestrated things so that the jury HATED Josh.  That was his plan - get Josh to attack the future jury members, so that the final vote would come down to "the guy who tried to protect me" vs. "the guy who screamed and banged pots in my face."  Paul was outplayed by Josh, who clued people in through his good-bye messages.  But Paul also made the mistake of believing that he was so much smarter than everyone else in the house.   Granted, he has a good 30 IQ points over not-Mensa Raven, but he under-estimated the other's ability to see through his bullshit.  (Ok, not Kevin, who was befuddled by the whole thing)

[ProfCrash]

OK you have to listen to the Rob Has a Podcast interviews because some of them are awesome. Mark and Elena interviews is hilarious. Raven is delusional. Cody shows some real personality. I am just on the Matt interview but seriously great stuff.

http://robhasawebsite.com/shows/big-brother/ Rob Has a Podcast

http://thebigtimeonline.com/big-brother-19-backyard-finale-interviews/ The Big Time interviews. I have not listened to these but the folks at Survivor Sucks love them.

[backformore]

2 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

OK you have to listen to the Rob Has a Podcast interviews because some of them are awesome. Mark and Elena interviews is hilarious. Raven is delusional. Cody shows some real personality. I am just on the Matt interview but seriously great stuff.

http://robhasawebsite.com/shows/big-brother/ Rob Has a Podcast

http://thebigtimeonline.com/big-brother-19-backyard-finale-interviews/ The Big Time interviews. I have not listened to these but the folks at Survivor Sucks love them.

THANK YOU!  I was looking for that. 

[Vixenstud]

17 minutes ago, backformore said:

Yeah, I kept thinking about one clip were Paul encouraged Raven to bully someone (probably Mark, but maybe Cody?)  and as soon as she did, she turned to Paul who kissed her on the forehead and said something like "good girl, I'm proud of you." 

And I think at the end, Paul thought he was sitting pretty because he thought he had orchestrated things so that the jury HATED Josh.  That was his plan - get Josh to attack the future jury members, so that the final vote would come down to "the guy who tried to protect me" vs. "the guy who screamed and banged pots in my face."  Paul was outplayed by Josh, who clued people in through his good-bye messages.  But Paul also made the mistake of believing that he was so much smarter than everyone else in the house.   Granted, he has a good 30 IQ points over not-Mensa Raven, but he under-estimated the other's ability to see through his bullshit.  (Ok, not Kevin, who was befuddled by the whole thing)

That stands out to me as well....he kissed her on the forehead and said "That's my girl!"  Asshat.

Paul got played by the meatball, the very meatball he always underestimated and never thought had a thinking bone in his body; this will always be delicious to me!

[neece26]

I'm no fan of Josh but damn, Paul's loss was so satisfying.   I did not watch his first season but something about him made me loathe him from day one - maybe it was the whole "your boy" schtick.  

I think Paul still could have pulled out the win but he really choked on the jury questions and closing statement and ultimately could not close the deal.   Even if he babbled a bit, Josh said all the right things when it mattered.  All Paul did was blow his own horn without any nods to the people on the jury - bad idea.

Glad to see Cody win AFP.  He may have his issues but I appreciated that he was authentic and not playing a character for TV.

Xmas saying she killed people with kindness was the laugh of the day!

[Artsda]

1 hour ago, TOL said:

As for Cody's "promise" that he alluded to when casting his vote, I think he told Paul flat out in the house that he would never vote for him to win

 

He said it was a jury house promise in the RHAP interview.

[hoosiermom]

Haven't watched this the past 3 weeks but after reading all your comments I will have to watch the finale!

[sasha206]

15 hours ago, Cherry Cola said:

What is with Will looking young in face, but letting the hair grey? i am confused. 

He used to be SO good looking and then he discovered botox and filler and now his face may look young in one sense, but looks way to waxy for me.  I like the grey hair!

[Vixenstud]

That's it!  He looks like a Yankee Candle now.

[ProfCrash]

48 minutes ago, Artsda said:

He said it was a jury house promise in the RHAP interview

It was kind of confusing. He said on the show it was a promise and then in the interview he said it was a promise but not a promise kind of a pact but not really a pact. In the end I get the feeling that it was a discussion and an agreement but I am not sure that Cody fully bought into it as a 100% commitment to vote against Paul.

[Cutty]

Unless I'm mistaken, Jason was the only houseguest who got a home segment. He got a very lovable edit on the show. I'm not surprised he finished top three for AFP.

[MisterBluxom]

8 hours ago, Cutty said:

Cody saying "I'm keeping my word" when he voted. Wonder what that was in reference to. Maybe a pact he made with Mark and Elena to not vote for Paul? 

I hope Cody was just trying to twist the knife as he stuck it into Paul. He told people that he would vote for Paul even though Cody hated him because Paul played the best game.

So, I hope Paul heard him and believed that meant Cody was voting for Paul to win. Then, when the final vote was read to break the 4-4 tie, Paul would have seen it was Cody's vote and would have thought that meant he won.

From the Thrill of Victory into the Jaws of Defeat - in just a split-second. Oh, how delicious. Big LOL at Paul. Well done Cody!

Edited September 21, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Cutty]

1 minute ago, ProfCrash said:

It was kind of confusing. He said on the show it was a promise and then in the interview he said it was a promise but not a promise kind of a pact but not really a pact. In the end I get the feeling that it was a discussion and an agreement but I am not sure that Cody fully bought into it as a 100% commitment to vote against Paul.

I don't think Cody wanted to admit they had all agreed to vote against Paul beforehand. 

[MisterBluxom]

We all knew Paul was unhappy. But, dammit! I wanted to see tears - or at least some sign of how shocked and unhappy he was. I wanted him to fall to his knees and cry out, "Why, Oh Lord? Why? Why? Why?"

[Ceeg]

The thing that gets me about Paul, is that AFAIK he still hasn't even acknowledged where he messed up or that he made any mistakes in the game. He truly is Russell Hantz. And I don't understand how any veteran and lover of this game can't understand that along with skills (both social, physical, and mental) and luck, jury management is a huge part of this game. Paul played lived with these people for months and months, he saw them act like hyenas at the very idea of being slighted, he saw them bully and cast aside people who were no longer useful to them. And he still thought it would work out great for him, once they found out that he stabbed them all in the back while shouting FRIENDSHIP? Alex said it best (lol I can't believe): she voted for the person who stabbed her in the front. 

But Paul still doesn't seem to understand. I guess his ego is too big to believe his fatal flaw (twice) was jury management.

[LoneHaranguer]

4 hours ago, eurekagirl mOo said:

So wanted Kevin to win Favorite. I just loved him from beginning to end.

ITA, and this represents another part of the season Paul managed to screw up. Not to denigrate Cody, but I doubt he'd have beaten Kevin without the FU-to-Paul vote.

3 hours ago, Racj82 said:

In regards to the using Christmas body thing, Alex said use her for her body meaning be there comp beast and control who people may have wanted to go home that way. That wasn't an option because she barely played them for obvious reasons so she had to turn to social game.

Perhaps it was just her injury that served to highlight all of the physical comps this season, but it seemed like the producers were favoring people good at physical games this season. Was that a subtle way of helping Paul?

[Kip Hackman]

6 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't understand all of the joy that people are getting from Paul losing this thing.  It isn't as though Josh (as the winner) is any great human being.

As a person who never watched the feeds and never read spoilers, just from watching the episodes, it appeared to me that Josh wash a bigger jerk than Paul was.

I get that people were angry at having Paul in the house and the advantages he had, but those advantages (unless proven otherwise) were nothing that he had any control over.  I can understand being upset at production.

For me, rooting against Paul was the equivalent of rooting against production.

[Michichick]

5 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't understand all of the joy that people are getting from Paul losing this thing.  It isn't as though Josh (as the winner) is any great human being.

As a person who never watched the feeds and never read spoilers, just from watching the episodes, it appeared to me that Josh wash a bigger jerk than Paul was.

 

Your avoidance of spoilers and feeds info might be a reason why you don't get why some of us are so happy.  To be clear, I don't think there's anything better or worse about being a show-only viewer versus a feeds/spoilers viewer but it can certainly color how each of us see the house guests.

For me, being a person who watched the feeds and read spoilers had tremendous influence in how I viewed Paul. I agree Josh isn't a great human being, but I utterly despise Paul and was delighted to see him lose. 

[Callaphera]

11 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

But what I can't understand, is why anyone would support some members of the jury acting like petulant children.  They shouldn't be mad at Paul for their failures in playing the game.  They had a choice.  They made the wrong choice.  Now, because they sucked at the game, and couldn't get over it, they took it out on Paul?  Bullshit.  Poor sportsmanship across the board.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man. But seriously, just because it wasn't the choice that you would like them to make doesn't make it the wrong choice. It was the right choice to them for whatever reasons. As was stated above by @Michichick, it may be a difference of feed watchers versus broadcast only watchers. As a feed watcher, I didn't think the jury could have made a better choice or a better vote count. I don't consider it poor sportsmanship. Jury management is one of the more important parts of the game and Paul proved that he didn't learn from his mistakes last season. You need to make sure that you cover your ass with the jury. Paul didn't do that very well and I think Josh's goodbye messages towards the end really helped torpedo that last bit of Paul's management. Did he play the best game? Well, he was the only one who played, really. But that doesn't mean that he deserves the win. Sometimes it's about respect more than gameplay. 

17 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I think this is the second bitter jury in a row.  That is not a good sign for future seasons of BB.  That just gives house guests more incentive to lie around and not make waves.

I'd disagree but only because Paul was in both seasons, in F2, with bitter juries. There's a common denominator there. 

[Christina]

8 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

As a person who never watched the feeds and never read spoilers, just from watching the episodes, it appeared to me that Josh wash a bigger jerk than Paul was.

Paul was vile and vindictive, which was clear when watching the feeds. The pots and pans banging was because Paul told Josh he would get AFP for it. Towards the end, Josh refused to get in Kevin's face like he did with Cody, Jess and Mark, and Paul trashed him for it. Alex going off on Kevin was because Paul was telling her that Kevin was badmouthing her and Jason, and Paul was blaming Kevin for things he did. He admitted it to Josh on the feeds, along with admitting he was the one behind the Megan abuse. 

Josh was awful on his own, too, but the broadcast shows didn't air Paul's lies and manipulations, his ORDERS to the others to ignore and/or berate the person on the block, and then he would approach them and be all kind and friendly, feigning disbelief that they were being shunned and excluded, when that was happening because he ORDERED it. 

No one had to listen to him, but failure to do so resulted in that person becoming the next victim of the abuse. Watching the feeds got downright uncomfortable, because I was watching grown adults act like 13-year-old bullies all because the popular kid told them to and told them that the audience would love it. The entire season was full of crappy people who should never have been cast, but once they got together, they devolved into adolescence. Paul got a good edit and he didn't deserve it.

[simplyme]

33 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't think there is anything that Paul could have said that would have swayed more votes his way.   I just think it would have pissed off the jury more.  He could have owned up to everything, and it wouldn't have mattered.

BTW, Paul should have won last year instead of Whiny Cindy Brady.

Here's the thing: Both BB and Survivor are social games. In order to win, a player has to eliminate people who will vote for them instead of whoever else they are up against. That means they need to read their competitors correctly.

Josh actually had a better read on the jury overall, and his strategy of using the goodbye messages to come clean and throw Paul under the bus was more effective than Paul's strategy of "sic others on them and act innocent."

Paul didn't lose because people were bitter. He lost because he played an inferior social game to Josh.

As Jeff Probst will tell people (and Russell Hantz), the game in BB and Survivor isn't about who the viewing audience likes or thinks played the best. That's (usually) a different game. It's about who the JURORS think did so. So a player can make the viewers ooooh and ahhh as he/she works their way to the final, but that just guarantees a better placement/more money. One cannot win without jury management, and Paul blew it again.

And yes, I do think that Paul could have managed to get Mark, Elena's, or even Cody's votes had he handled things differently. None of them were huge Josh fans.

Edited September 21, 2017 by simplyme
Typo, clarity, removed indeterminate yous

[watch2much]

2 hours ago, Vixenstud said:

That stands out to me as well....he kissed her on the forehead and said "That's my girl!"  Asshat.

 

then had her barking like a dog.  I was in pharmaceutical sales and was told you never make a doctor look or sound stupid no matter what they say.  Paul could have won this easily if he had just stroked some ego and apologized.  but to be stabbed in the back and then in a goodbye speech continue to insult their intelligence by not admitting it, he did irreparable damage.  except to Raven and Matt who were truly too dumb to know their "intelligence" had been insulted.

[Ceeg]

47 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't think there is anything that Paul could have said that would have swayed more votes his way.   I just think it would have pissed off the jury more.  He could have owned up to everything, and it wouldn't have mattered.

It's not about one thing he could have said to sway votes. It's the fact that he played for the entire season without keeping the Jury in mind. The reason the jury was pissed off at him isn't because he didn't own up to his game on finale night. It's because he literally had alliances with every single person in the house, and it bit him in the ass when they all compared notes. He lacked the foresight to see how that would play out with the jury and it cost him the game. Again.

Quote

BTW, Paul should have won last year instead of Whiny Cindy Brady.

I'm of the mind that whoever wins the game is who "should have won" the game.  There's no such thing as a person who loses that deserved to win (and I say this as a big Vanessa Rousso fan; she controlled that house until the F3, Steve won and he deserved it). Big Brother isn't only about comp wins and making it to the end. It's about managing every member on the jury to get to a point where you vote their ass out and they STILL give you the money. 

Edited September 21, 2017 by Ceeg

[Kip Hackman]

In the end, what bit Paul was all the unnecessary bullying & harassment, which he orchestrated (and the show downplayed). You can attribute Mark & Elena's votes directly to that.

[watch2much]

I think what's most amazing to me is that Paul still doesn't get it.  He didn't watch last's season and he said he won't watch this.  So he's never going to understand why he loses.  He is Russell Hantz all the way.  nothing endearing about him.  I was not a fan of Josh, but he did have an endearing quality.  but he was exploited by Paul to do things.  I wish Josh had acted differently and maybe someone in his family can explain the season to him and he'll feel some remorse.  He still thinks Paul is a great friend (when there was evidence Paul didn't hold him in any regard at all.)  He was a robot Paul programmed to do his dirty work expecting all the people he bullied to hate him.  He totally chose the wrong person to take with him, he was wrong in how he gave his goodbye speeches, and he was wrong in his answers. That's why he lost.  As Josh kept answering he had the ring of sincerity....Paul kept trying to spin how he was the greatest player and trying to convince the jury of an alternate universe from what they experienced.  It was a great night.  Wish I could see Alex, Xmas, Raven, et al, when they find out how they were really perceived.  They obviously had been prepped about the bully topic....they kept references that people only saw a few hours....not knowing it was those on the feeds exposing their most flagrant acts.   Xmas, you are not a kind and positive person; you are a shrew: you claim to be a competitor--why didn't we hear you lobbying Josh to take you to final 2? You are pathetic.  and trying to explain how you worked in Iraq and knew soldiers is not the same as a Marine in combat....you are just vile.Alex you are no gamer, you talked Jason out of ideas that were correct, now go home and lose the kitty ears. Matt and Raven, you deserve each other.  Kevin, Cody confided in you and you ran to Paul.....wouldn't South Boston call that ratting out?  All in all...it was a great night.