S07.E07: The Dragon And The Wolf

[FnkyChkn34]

16 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

The pacing of this episode felt very uneven.  Tons of ponderous slow scenes in the beginning featuring Cersei and build up to the wight (which underwhelmed me), super fast "Oh hey, Littlefinger, you're a traitor" and "Oh by the way, Jon's a legit Targaryen and the true heir to the Iron Throne."

It was uneven, but I liked it. Good build up, IMO.

[henripootel]

So many good things, so many bad.

Why does Cercei care if John adds his thousand men to the fucking nightmare that is the Dothraki, the horror show that is the Unsullied, and the completely sphincter-straining terror of dragon fire?  Suddenly the northmen are a deal breaker?

Odd that it's Cercei who also understands the heart of the matter.  She can't ever ever support Dany, nor can she oppose her, so let the Night King deal with her first.  Why in god's name would anyone think Cercei would do anything other than this?

Nice to see Italica again - walked around the spot where they filmed the big meet up.  And the Ice Dragon was fucking awesome.  Also nice of Bran to get out of the tub and straighten a few things out.  

 

Missing end credit sequences:

Euron meets with the Golden Compass representative, heaves bag of gold on the table.

Euron: There's your deposit.  You'll need gear to fight Dothraki, Unsullied, and dragons.  Oh, and also an army of zombies.

Golden Compass guy blinks twice, pushes bag back across.

 

Back at Winterfell.

Bran: Got some news for you Jon - you're real name is Aegon Targaryen, which makes Dany your paternal aunt.  Probably shoulda mentioned that before you guys boned on the boat.

All in the Great Room look slightly sick.  

Edited August 28, 2017 by henripootel

[scarynikki12]

The scene with Bran and Sam also proves that, while Bran may know everything, he doesn't really KNOW everything.  Meaning, he needs to focus on something specific and then he knows.  Otherwise it's just a file on the computer that is his brain and he won't realize its significance if he doesn't access it.

[mojoween]

Wait so Tormund and Beric are dead?!?

[Matt K]

19 minutes ago, CaptainTightpants said:

Nothing in life has prepared me for the possible death of Tormund the most beautiful of gingers. If the rumors are true, and we will not get season 8 till 2019, I may literally die!

Well he is the Wyndham Wizard, so I think he should be fine. 

 

Man that was a good episode.  Although I'm sad we got all that petty stuff between Arya and Sansa when we could have all the awesome sisterly bonding instead.

 

And if anyone watches People of Earth, Rhygar looked a lot like Don the alien which kind of took me out of the moment. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Matt K

[jeansheridan]

4 minutes ago, magdalene said:

I think we are supposed to see the Jon/Dany coupling as a cautionary tale ala Rhaegar/Lyanna - look how well that turned out.

But if Rhaegar had been more upfront about it, more public, a war could have been avoided. Maybe. Same with Lyanna. Dad it isn't rape, it's love and he will marry me. I know Dorne would rebelled or been insulted but that kingdom is so remote. Find Robert a new wife and done. All the anger came from what they thought was a rape.

 

Jon and Dany are quite upfront about their business. She never hid Daario either. And as Littlefinger said, they make an obvious couple. I mean, everyone was shipping them. They're gorgeous and worthy of each other. 

[spottedreptile]

8 minutes ago, FemmyV said:

Rheagar looked a lot like Vyserius. Did Harry play him?

Apparently not. Even though they look very alike, the actor was Wilf Scolding, not Harry Lloyd. Oddly, he reminded me more of Thor.

Edited August 28, 2017 by spottedreptile

[Oscirus]

Also can we marvel at Jon's stupidity?  Yea, Cersei wouldn't have sent her army anyway, but holy shit dude, learn to lie for crying out loud.

[dirtypop90]

1 hour ago, Advance35 said:

 

Jon continues to prove he should NOT be King in The North.  He couldn't out-intrigue a swatted fly much less a true "player."  I liked that Sansa was lamenting the political ramifications of him giving the North away to Dany.   I also find it very interesting that she couldn't recognize the significance of Dany being beautiful.  I remember in Season 5 when LF told her to make Ramsay her own creature, Sansa said "I don't know how to do that."  Her lack of sexual knowledge is a weapon she lacks due to inexperience.  Though this is a noticeable change from the book because in  Winds of Winter we are seeing her evolution in how she deals with men.

 

I read this scene differently. I think she reacted that way because she sees Jon as different than the men she has encountered---the fact that Dany is beautiful wouldn't affect Jon the way it would most men; he is all about loyalty, duty, honor etc. and would never be taken by a woman's beauty.  She's probably never even seen Jon with a woman or heard him speak about one.

Edited August 28, 2017 by dirtypop90
typo

[nodorothyparker]

Everyone at the Wall should be dead.  I know, plot armor and all, but they should all be dead.  Otherwise it's yet another round of dazzling pyrotechnics with no balls for follow through.

I'm trying to decide if Littlefinger meeting his end in Winterfell's dingy great hall is supposed to be a larger lesson about how the mighty will fall or it's yet another instance of giving fan favorites something to do.  Most of this story the last couple of episodes has been ridiculously contrived and feels like a hugely underwhelming end for a character Varys warned us seasons ago would be willing to see it all burn down to be king of the ashes.

Jaime better be picking Bronn up on his way out of town.

[WatchrTina]

1 minute ago, Francie said:

You know the man [Qyburn] has taken the arm sample and has already manufactured 3 of those things in his dungeon laboratory. 

Nope -- Jon took the arm back from him and set it on fire (following the instructions I was screaming at the TV.)

[Captain Carrot]

I enjoyed this episode for what it was, but this episode proved that something could be cool and bad at the same time. (Usually when you thought about it for a few minutes). Littlefinger thinking that he had gotten rid of Arya, only to be put on "trial" and executed by Arya. Cool. Sansa and Arya stringing him along all season, including arguing when no one else was around. Just bad writing, and it would only have taken a line or two about needing to get Royce on board with the idea.

Having a dragon wight destroy the wall. Cool. But the Night King only had the dragon because they went north of the wall. Does this mean that all they had to do was close the gates and wait out the winter to beat the Night King?

[Kanner]

OMG! Tormund and Beric! I hope they are alive somehow. I know they showed them off to the side but damn. 

Is that supposed to be realtime? Could that be the future?

I am not a fan of Sansa but I liked how this was done. It was clear that it wasn't until that last conversation that she realized all about Littlefinger. His game backfired because Sansa knows being a Lady of anything was never Ayra. It woke her up and she remembered Bran and his skills. Nice that it was clear they were all in on it at the end.

Since Cersei already made the plans with Euron, it didn't matter if Jon lied or not so I'm with him telling the truth.  I am also fine with everyone calling him on it.  He defended himself well. It just showed how small a person Cersei is. 

The scene with Jon and Dany in the dragon pit was crackling. 

Poor Jorah at Painted Table.

Did they just put Viserys' old wig on the actor for Rhaegar? Not good.

What the hell Tyrion? Are you going to take Littlefinger's place as the creeper? If that is jealousy it is coming out of nowhere for me.

Boatsex! Yum.

[dirtypop90]

3 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

But if Rhaegar had been more upfront about it, more public, a war could have been avoided. Maybe. Same with Lyanna. Dad it isn't rape, it's love and he will marry me. I know Dorne would rebelled or been insulted but that kingdom is so remote. Find Robert a new wife and done. All the anger came from what they thought was a rape.

 

Jon and Dany are quite upfront about their business. She never hid Daario either. And as Littlefinger said, they make an obvious couple. I mean, everyone was shipping them. They're gorgeous and worthy of each other. 

I don't think the north will ship it.

Edited August 28, 2017 by dirtypop90

[Francie]

7 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

That scene between Sansa and Arya and Littlefinger was satisfying.

DO YOU DENY IT?

I now you're quoting the show, but I have to say it was anticlimatic for me. 

[Amethyst]

I swear, if something happened to Tormund...he better be OK.  As in safe, not just alive.  He needs to be back onscreen next season, talking about his potential monster babies.

[Macbeth]

3 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

In related news, the Mountain SUCKS as a bodyguard.  He should have interposed himself between that thing and his queen as soon as it started for her.

Maybe the Mountain identified with the wight.  Like meets like.

[Oscirus]

Just now, Francie said:

9 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

That scene between Sansa and Arya and Littlefinger was satisfying.

DO YOU DENY IT?

I now you're quoting the show, but I have to say it was anticlimatic for me. 

Me too, it was like the show was patting it self on the back for making the Starks defeat of Littlefinger "epic."

[Growsonwalls]

I don't agree that we're not supposed to get "attached" to the nephew-aunt. Jon and Dany are obviously the best choices to rule Westeros. They have been routinely depicted as more enlightened rulers than Cersei. So I think the audience is absolutely supposed to support them, and the way to seal their partnership is ... well, biblically. So I;m not sure what the writers have in mind but if the series ends with anyone but Dany/Jon as the leaders I think many will be disappointed.

[ParadoxLost]

1 minute ago, nodorothyparker said:

Everyone at the Wall should be dead.  I know, plot armor and all, but they should all be dead.  Otherwise it's yet another round of dazzling pyrotechnics with no balls for follow through.

But Jon having to fight Tormund as a white walker is not something I think I can deal with.

That's why I'm not sure that Tormund's plot armor is strong enough; because I find that horrible enough to be a possibility.

[domina89]

Did Bronn and Podrick leave just so Lena Headey wouldn't have a scene with Jerome Flynn? Seriously? Woman can hold a grudge!

[Amarsir]

31 minutes ago, Francie said:

So, it looks like the dragon has its second head. 

What the heck does the dragon have three heads mean, then? 

TBD, apparently. Could it mean a child between them?

[Kanner]

I love smart Sam. Bran briefly explains what the three-eyed raven is and Sam is able to use Bran's ability on the first try. This is why you need Sam around.

[hypnotoad]

Quote

I can tell I'm just all the way over Cersei because I was bored as hell during her big scenes with Tyrion and Jaime, which I know objectively featured some top notch acting.

I wasn't bored at all. I enjoyed the hell out of both scenes - especially Show!Jaime finally walking away. Cersei is the worst, but Lena Headey always manages to make her slightly human. Unlike book Cersei who never seemed remotely human to me.

Quote

Revealing Jon's parentage in the same episode he has sex with his aunt is disgusting. There is no amount of "hotness" makes incest root worthy or sexy or anything good.

I think the reveal was handled in a strange way but the rest doesn't bother me in the least. This is a world in which Dany was expecting to marry her brother. Plus, we've had 7 seasons of twincest. Frankly, aunt sex seems far better in comparison. I think Jon and Dany have chemistry - now that is unpopular opinion for sure.

I don't care how often we see them, the White Walkers and the army of the dead scare the crap out of me. I was sure the wall would come down because of the Night King's connection to Bran.

And wasn't the whole going and grabbing the wight plan Tyrion's? As I recall he came up with that ... so why are people still blaming Jon?

Edited to add:  I was quite pleased that I was correct and Arya and Sansa would take down Littlefinger. I admit most of that story arc made little to no sense, but Littlefinger died and all is right in my house! I cheered when Arya cut his throat.

This show makes me bloodthirsty!

Edited August 28, 2017 by hypnotoad

[FemmyV]

5 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

I don't think the north will ship it.

I think the North will be fine, once they see what the Dragons can do.

[dirtypop90]

Just now, Growsonwalls said:

I don't agree that we're not supposed to get "attached" to the nephew-aunt. Jon and Dany are obviously the best choices to rule Westeros. They have been routinely depicted as more enlightened rulers than Cersei. So I think the audience is absolutely supposed to support them, and the way to seal their partnership is ... well, biblically. So I;m not sure what the writers have in mind but if the series ends with anyone but Dany/Jon as the leaders I think many will be disappointed.

I'm sure but hasn't it already been said the ending will be bittersweet?  Game of thrones is no fairytale and has never pretended to be. I think the two needed to come together to defeat the whitewalkers but that's it IMO I think there has been quite a bit of foreshadowing this season that Dany will not rule.

[leopardprint]

I find the R+L=J thing to be the most underwhelming and predictable aspect of the whole show and that scene didn't do much to change my opinion. Does it even matter if Jon is the one true heir? Daenarys' forces follow her for her not because she is the Targaryen heir. The one question would be the dragons and I think that would just be a stalemate? 

[Francie]

8 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Also can we marvel at Jon's stupidity?  Yea, Cersei wouldn't have sent her army anyway, but holy shit dude, learn to lie for crying out loud.

At least play coy, man.  Try, "I'll go North for now, and then let's see how it goes." 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Francie

[Amethyst]

1 minute ago, ParadoxLost said:

But Jon having to fight Tormund as a white walker is not something I think I can deal with.

That's why I'm not sure that Tormund's plot armor is strong enough; because I find that horrible enough to be a possibility.

That crossed my mind, too.  Even if he lives, there's a possibility that all of the warriors at the Wall could be turned.  

[Blonde Gator]

Well, that was pretty spectacular.

Um, but who played Rhaegar?  Sure looked like Harry Lloyd to me.....either that, or they reused Viserys' wig.

Poor dead dragon.  His wings are full of holes.  I think he's an undead dragon (wight) rather than a Wight Walker dragon, with a mind of his own.  Hmmmm.

Run, Tormund, run, you magnificent hunk of wildling!

[Arynm]

Cersei and Tyrion brought me to tears with their scene! The best actors were really giving it their best. I was all in.

I also shed a tear when Littlefinger met his end, but for an entirely different reason. Family got to stick together, you know.

Dany is pregnant for sure. Still not sure if Cersei is, she is such a snake, I hope she meets a very uncomfortable end. Yay to Jaime, for finally saying see ya! Just as the snow starts to fall. He has great timing.

[stagmania]

So that sex scene was a total romance fail, but I think it's still fairly obvious that Daenerys is going to get pregnant. Which seems to suggest one of Jon's big torments next season will be finding out and then having to choose between marrying his aunt or letting his child be born a bastard, on top of dealing with his feelings about his true parents and claim to the throne. And Daenerys will of course fiercely protect the baby she never thought she could have, and be wary of Jon trying to take the throne. So this may actually be a set up for them to be working together but not trusting/feeling comfortable with each other as they fight off the Night King.

[Oscirus]

2 minutes ago, hypnotoad said:

And wasn't the whole going and grabbing the wight plan Tyrion's? As I recall he came up with that ... so why are people still blaming Jon?

Because the execution of said plan was Jon's and his execution was shit.

[dirtypop90]

4 minutes ago, FemmyV said:

I think the North will be fine, once they see what the Dragons can do.

I think they will be terrified of her and said dragons and begin to see Jon as other. I wonder how soon Sansa, Arya, and the Northern lords will find out Jon is Targaryan.  I wonder if Jon finds out first but then decides to keep it form them, and then shit hits the fan when they find out.

Edited August 28, 2017 by dirtypop90

[screamin]

14 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

After Rhaegar, before Lyanna, though I doubt she'd even know about that given the condition she was in.

The death of Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon came at the same time as Robert's successful usurpation of the throne and the KG at the Tower seemed perfectly aware of Robert's usurpation. Since it had happened at least several weeks before Ned came to the tower, they probably had a connection to some raven informant, and Lyanna likely knew of it before she went into labor.

[Francie]

5 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I don't agree that we're not supposed to get "attached" to the nephew-aunt. Jon and Dany are obviously the best choices to rule Westeros. They have been routinely depicted as more enlightened rulers than Cersei. So I think the audience is absolutely supposed to support them, and the way to seal their partnership is ... well, biblically. So I;m not sure what the writers have in mind but if the series ends with anyone but Dany/Jon as the leaders I think many will be disappointed.

 I will bet that the end will be anything but Dany and Jon co-leading Westeros .

[Blonde Gator]

1 minute ago, Amethyst said:

That crossed my mind, too.  Even if he lives, there's a possibility that all of the warriors at the Wall could be turned.  

Even WORSE, would be Hodor as a wight.  Poor sweet Hodor, who got left behind, with no one around to burn his body.  THAT would totally bum me out.

[FemmyV]

1 minute ago, Blonde Gator said:

Poor dead dragon.  His wings are full of holes. 

I wondered about that, but decided it was probably just snow.

[Katsullivan]

Add to the list of things that made Littlefinger's execution & the entire Winterfell Stark Sister plot this season so unsatisfyingly fan-ficcy:

Whatever happened to Stark way:

Quote

Yet our way is the older way. The blood of the First Men still flows in the veins of the Starks, and we hold to the belief that the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword.

[WatchrTina]

A lot of tonight's plot hinged on Jon's decision to tell the truth when lying would have possibly served his interests better.  I say possibly because actually, it would not have mattered if Jon had lied and agreed to Cersie's demand because we now know that Cersie had no intention of honoring her promise anyway.  If Jon had lied, Dany would have learned not to trust him.  In the end his honorable Stark instincts were right and they won him the princess.

So . . . Jon doesn't want to believe that Dany is barren. Well I think it's pretty clear where this is going.  They'll knock boots all through the final season (oh GET OVER IT TYRION) and she'll turn up pregnant and they'll get married and live happily ever after.  Or get eaten by a snow-dragon.

6 minutes ago, Arynm said:

Dany is pregnant for sure. Still not sure if Cersei is, she is such a snake

I assumed Cersei was lying about being pregnant last week but now I believe because:

1. Tyrion called her out on it and he knows how to read her, and
2. Jamie is suddenly less important to her because she has another Lannister to love instead.

Edited August 28, 2017 by WatchrTina

[anyanka323]

We know that both the showrunners and GRRM have been both heavily influenced by the Lord of the Rings, both the books and films, but it was especially obvious in the final sequence when the wall went down.  The Night King on poor Viserion was their version of the Witch King on his dragonesque mount.  The blowing of the horns was reminiscent of Pippin lighting the beacons at Minis Tirith. 

It would be an interesting parallel if a woman, either Arya and Brienne with their Valeryian steel weapons as individuals or a team, was the only one who could kill the Night King, as a reference to Eowyn being his killer in the Return of the King. 

[Amers]

38 minutes ago, Francie said:

So, it looks like the dragon has its second head. 

What the heck does the dragon have three heads mean, then? 

My theory is it's a metaphor for Jon, Dang, and their child. 

[GrailKing]

30 minutes ago, stagmania said:

I know this will probably be a point of contention, but to me this episode made it clear that Sansa and Arya's fighting last week was sincere. Sansa didn't catch on to Littlefinger's manipulation until the end of their first scene tonight-when he made the absurd insinuation that Arya wants to be Lady of Winterfell. That's what snapped Sansa out of it. He doesn't know Arya and he miscalculated. Kind of love that this was his downfall. And however dumb this plot was, I'm happy Sansa and Arya are back on the same side and I'm not holding the bad writing against either character. 

 

Nah, she caught on last week, as soon as he mentioned Brienne's vows.

This week just confirmed what he wanted to do, and Sansa was ready.

I would have liked a bit more drama or Royce say something to confirm Sansa was talking to him.

I liked the banter on the WF wall. I assume Sansa will at least meet Danny and size her up.

They should take a dragon to white harbor at least.

[Kanner]

Nervous Jon was so cute.

[Oscirus]

2 minutes ago, screamin said:

The death of Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon came at the same time as Robert's successful usurpation of the throne and the KG at the Tower seemed perfectly aware of Robert's usurpation. Since it had happened at least several weeks before Ned came to the tower, they probably had a connection to some raven informant, and Lyanna likely knew of it before she went into labor.

I somehow doubt that Rhaegar would've let anybody bring upsetting news to her. It seems if anything he was shielding her from that shit. So even if the guards knew, she likely didn't

[beaker73]

28 minutes ago, Francie said:

I think it was a message to the audience -- don't get too attached. Don't start rooting for them.

I certainly hope so. I think I'm one of five people that don't like the pairing. 

[FemmyV]

3 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

I think they will be terrified of her and said dragons and begin to see Jon as other. I wonder how soon Sansa, Arya, and the Northern will find out Jon is Targaryan.  I wonder if Jon finds out first but then decides to keep it form them, and then shit hits the fan when they find out.

Arya will probably be pretty stoked - her wolf isn't Nymeria for no reason. The rest? Who knows

[littlemommy]

So, of all the things to get hung up on, I got hung up on this:

Jaime says "Kill me". Cersei nods at Zombie Gregor to kill him. Gregor doesn't. Jaime walks away. Gregor continues to not kill him.

What the hell did I miss? I mean, I shouted "Noooo!" in dismay, because I love Jaime. Zombie Gregor always follows orders. Unless he inexplicably doesn't.

Edited August 28, 2017 by littlemommy

[The Kings Foot]

23 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Man am I happy that Littlefinger got played. That was the fitting way for him to die more then being killed by his own knife. 

Bran: Jon needs to know 

Too late, Bran. Jon just banged his aunt.  Since most of us already knew that Jon was a Targaryen, the dramatic music wasn't necessary. What was with Tyrion creeping on Dany and Jon? 

I guess Cersei doesn't care if she's the Queen of corpses, then dies. I think she wins the dumbest Lannister award. Does she not understand that if Dany and Jon's armies fall they will just join the ranks of the undead? Jamie finally caught a clue and I guess be the only force from the south.  The Gold company will probably see the walking dead and turn and run. Gold isn't worth your life.  And now there's an Ice Dragon. 

If Dany and Jon defeat the NK, Cersei is still dead. The Iron throne only seats one.  So from her pov it doesn't matter. 

[Francie]

8 minutes ago, domina89 said:

Did Bronn and Podrick leave just so Lena Headey wouldn't have a scene with Jerome Flynn? Seriously? Woman can hold a grudge!

From what I've heard, the issue was on his end.  He was having trouble keeping his head in the game when shooting scenes she was in. 

In any event, I think it was just a reason to take out two actors who had no further purpose in the scenes. 

I do think the better scene would have been hanging with them instead of some of the others.