S01.E07: Part VII

[Drogo]

Cora journeys into the past, finally remembering the night in question.

[Auntie Anxiety]

Why am I still watching this stupid show? Stupid and boring is a bad combination.  And to make matters even worse, my DVR shut off before it ended so I don't even know how the episode ended. And I'm not really sure that I care.

[tennisgurl]

So Cora stabbed Frankie because he accidentally killed her sister during sex? I have to say, I didn't exactly see that coming. I also didn't figure out that when she was remembering the ex girlfriend, she was actually remembering her sister. So, the whole thing isn't some crazy death cult, but just some bros covering up an accidental murder? Or does the murder cult come later? I was promised a murder cult!

Cora constantly saying she "isn't a killer" continues to be rich, especially if this is how things basically end. She might have been crazy at the time, but she did stab a guy over something that was apparently accidental. Unless the aforementioned murder cult becomes a thing. 

[Laurie4H]

Did they ever explain her track marks?  So I'm assuming they kidnapped her shot up her up with heroin to keep her silent?

[LoveLeigh]

This episode was awful, more lurid that Flowers in the Attic. it is just idiotic and an insult to intelligence. Cora IS a murderer. I wish the script would stop with the excuses and trying to find out why. 

Cora is a nut and the sister is a creep. And we had to see them kiss again? Total garbage. 

[Irlandesa]

42 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Why am I still watching this stupid show? Stupid and boring is a bad combination.  And to make matters even worse, my DVR shut off before it ended so I don't even know how the episode ended. And I'm not really sure that I care.

I'll tell you anyway.  So Frankie and Phoebe were having sex.  Cora thought she was having sex with JD but the weird guy they were with earlier in the episode appeared out of where and was the one actually having sex with her (from behind).  Cora looked over and saw her sister's hand hanging limp and moving.  We see Frankie trying to give her CPR when we hear her ribs break.  She gets up to try to pull him off of her.  JD takes an ashtray and hits Cora. 

27 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Cora constantly saying she "isn't a killer" continues to be rich, especially if this is how things basically end. She might have been crazy at the time, but she did stab a guy over something that was apparently accidental.

Right.  I don't think Frankie* would be considered a "murderer."  Phoebe was of age.  She understood her heart situation.  She chose to take whatever she took. She probably had a heart attack during sex. Sex isn't a weapon unless it's without consent.**  He tried to rescue her as soon as he realized.  There was the sense that Phoebe was going to live that night or bust and she kind of knew it could be her last night.

*Am I a weirdo for finding Frankie to be an absolute dreamboat in this episode?  Or at least as much as one can be while doing drugs and having an orgy. 

**The two assaults here were with Cora when JD hit her and when the weirdo stranger started having sex with her.

I understand that is going to be a traumatic night but I'm not sure how it is going to excuse her killing Frankie.  And remember the distinct pattern in the way she stabs?  They have a lot to explain that since we're being to led to believe there's something ritualistic. 

So do we know for sure that Maddie was the dead body or is it Phoebe?  And who killed JD? 

Edited September 14, 2017 by Irlandesa

[BamaGirl]

First of all, if Frankie was a medical student like he said, he would have known that you DON'T DO CPR ON A COUCH! You do it on a hard surface. It seems they were having sex on the floor, so why would he move her to the couch to do CPR, when, as someone in the medical field, he'd know better?? (Unless they were on the couch doing some post-sex cuddling by then...)

If Pheobe died and Cora disappeared for two months, why wasn't there a publicised, massive search for them? Is the skeleton at the school bus going to be Pheobe? Her parents talked about her dying, though, so how was her death explained to them?

Personally, I think that was a LOT of sex and drugs for a sick teenager who's never been around peers before. 

The scene where she's talking to her sister outside the bar, but we'd already seen it as Cora talking to the other girlfriend... That was a trip! It did make more sense with the conversation being between Cora and Pheobe, IMO.

All in all, a very trippy, not-sure-what-I-should-believe episode. Although I was happy enough not to see Ambrose or that skeleton-face lady detective they brought in to be over him.

[Irlandesa]

1 minute ago, BamaGirl said:

First of all, if Frankie was a medical student like he said, he would have known that you DON'T DO CPR ON A COUCH! You do it on a hard surface. It seems they were having sex on the floor, so why would he move her to the couch to do CPR, when, as someone in the medical field, he'd know better?? (Unless they were on the couch doing some post-sex cuddling by then...)

They were having sex on the couch but yes, he should have moved her to the floor.

[yourmomiseasy]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

*Am I a weirdo for finding Frankie to be an absolute dreamboat in this episode?  Or at least as much as one can be while doing drugs and having an orgy. 

 

I thought he was really sweet too how he seemed so smitten with the creepy sister and didn't care about her being sickly.  Unless of course he was just playing her.  And yeah, there is all the drug fueled orgy stuff.  So maybe not a prince charming, but if they'd met somewhere else doing something else that'd be the shit of romance movies.  Especially when compared to JD the creep.

I gasped when the chest cracked.  Ugh.

The sister is still totally creepy, but the sex obsession seems less bad knowing she's 19 and not 12.  

So for real all the baby stuff was Maddie?  Because it has been told 3 different ways now.  

I was excited for a creepy sister vs Maddie show down.  Maddie is no match for that creepy manipulative freak.  I'm okay with a filler episode of creepy sister just being let loose on the world and doing her worst.

[lucindabelle]

So my theory about Cora being phoebe (the woman we know as Cora) is completely shot.

ill have to watch again I didn't notice the rib cracking or the wrong guy having sex.

but phoebe was definitely having consensual sex.

cora misunderstood what she was seeing.

sinilarly nobody was shooting at the girls in the water they were just shooting to make noise to come back to the truck.

if this were the end I'd say poor Frankie. I can definitely understand why they'd want to cover it up since there was drugs etc.

but questions remain.

1. Why did Jd hit her husbands dad with a baseball bat?

2. Who shot JD? (Could be random drug deal)

3. So JD settled down with someone and has a  baby but Maddie is still hanging out?

4. Why was Cora chained to the bed and for how long?

[lucindabelle]

The thing where Cora remembered talking to Maddie but it was really phoebe- that's what I thought this whole thing was going to be like, that at some point we'd see Cora lying in the bed and that the woman we know as Cora is really Phoebe.

 

shoot. I like my theory better. But it's wrong.

[Razzberry]

I actually missed Bill Pullman and his dominatrix.... feel like I need a shower after this.

[Iguessnot]

6 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I'll tell you anyway.  So Frankie and Phoebe were having sex.  Cora thought she was having sex with JD but the weird guy they were with earlier in the episode appeared out of where and was the one actually having sex with her (from behind).  Cora looked over and saw her sister's hand hanging limp and moving.  We see Frankie trying to give her CPR when we hear her ribs break.  She gets up to try to pull him off of her.  JD takes an ashtray and hits Cora. 

Right.  I don't think Frankie* would be considered a "murderer."  Phoebe was of age.  She understood her heart situation.  She chose to take whatever she took. She probably had a heart attack during sex. Sex isn't a weapon unless it's without consent.**  He tried to rescue her as soon as he realized.  There was the sense that Phoebe was going to live that night or bust and she kind of knew it could be her last night.

*Am I a weirdo for finding Frankie to be an absolute dreamboat in this episode?  Or at least as much as one can be while doing drugs and having an orgy. 

**The two assaults here were with Cora when JD hit her and when the weirdo stranger started having sex with her.

I understand that is going to be a traumatic night but I'm not sure how it is going to excuse her killing Frankie.  And remember the distinct pattern in the way she stabs?  They have a lot to explain that since we're being to led to believe there's something ritualistic. 

So do we know for sure that Maddie was the dead body or is it Phoebe?  And who killed JD? 

I think Cora knew the other guy was going to join in because he previously rubbed her knee suggestively and when she looked at JD to see his reaction, he gave her a creepy smile. 

The stab pattern theory is a bit outrageous. Cora was obviously flailing wildly at Frankie, not stabbing him. Not a repeatable action.

 

6 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

So do we know for sure that Maddie was the dead body or is it Phoebe?  And who killed JD? 

It's Phoebe. The state cop stated they had Cora's DNA in the blood on the blanket. However they did not know about her sister.

[AnimeMania]

38 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

Cora was obviously flailing wildly at Frankie, not stabbing him. Not a repeatable action.

I think that was the pattern that she used to stab him.

I am guessing that scene they keep showing where all the naked bodies are writhing on the floor in an orgy while the song is playing, never happened?

There was a second car following JD, the one that had all the guns and it probably had the guy in the mask in it. What happened to those guys?

Frankie's father had to cover all this up and make it appear that Frankie was in California at the time. He lied to the police.

[eXiled]

I had just made up my mind to stop watching this hot mess of a show when I remembered that next week is the last episode.

[lucindabelle]

Or maybe Frankie's dad sincerely believed he was in California. Frankie hasn't been home.

 

i sincerely dog the show, guesss I'm alone in that.

[Straycat80]

I'm confused. How can the body by the bus be Phoebe? Didn't they talk about Phoebe being dead in an earlier episode? The parents were so obsessed with Phoebe because of her health I can't imagine they would have moved heaven and earth, called the police, whatever, to find her. 

Have we seen Maddie in present time? I missed seeing parts of past episodes.  

[TattleTeeny]

I have to admit, I was starting to wonder if there even is a Maddie at all--I was looking for Sixth Sense-ish clues like is anyone really talking to her, or could what they're saying be to themselves or to anyone else? 

Quote

 

Quote

So do we know for sure that Maddie was the dead body or is it Phoebe?  And who killed JD? 

It's Phoebe. The state cop stated they had Cora's DNA in the blood on the blanket. However they did not know about her sister.

 

But that could just mean that it's Cora's own DNA on the blanket; siblings' DNA is not identical.  

Also, that creepy-ass pink (pink?!) mask--was that just a random memory snippet? Because from what was shown at the end of an earlier episode, I kind of assumed it (as well as the others in that closet) would be a bigger thing than just some dude-bro running around with it on his face. 

I feel like I could buy the stab pattern thing if it's revealed that Cora had also done it in some other instance far earlier than the ones we see here, like as a small child or something (or even as a sort of an OCD counting ritual; in the first episode, I remember thinking that she seemed to display an almost OCD tendency). While I know that stuff like that does definitely happen in murderers' MOs, it seems to be rooted deeper than what's being portrayed here and also with some kind of "logical" reasoning behind it.

Edited September 14, 2017 by TattleTeeny

[gesundheit]

You're not alone, lucindabelle. I think the show is quite good, and last night's episode was really exciting (even though I feel a bit dirty!). Very much looking forward to what happens next and what the mitigating factors would be if Cora gets away with killing Frankie. If this were the whole story, it's obviously not enough, but considering she blocked out months of her life afterwards and turned up at a rehab facility with track marks, who knows what kind of dissociation happened. I really liked how every flashback she had actually happened, but they were just sometimes other people or an innocent moment that seemed sinister if remembered in just a flash. Anyway. Don't do molly, kids, you'll make REALLY bad decisions!

[notcreative enough]

I have a butt load if questions that I'm sure this show won't answer.

Do we know the body under the bus was female? I don't know how it could be Phoebe. Super crazy Mommy might not care if Cora disappeared but if Phoebe went missing she would search high and low for that kid. They said she died a month or 2 after Cora went missing. It could be a lie up it's an easy on to check. So either Frankie and JD snuck her body back into the house or dropped her off at the hospital. If she was in a coma it would explain why no one went to look for Cora.

Frankie's girlfriend said he had an intense relationship for a few months. The thing with Phoebe was only a few hours but I can see how someone dieing while your having sex with the would fuck you up. Or was it the kidnapping Cora for 5 months.

Cora was coked out so I don't really blame her for freaking out at the "party" and I'm not entirely sure she knew she was having sex with the weirdo. From what she was snorting and what JD put inside her I'm surprised she could function. JD is such a pussy he can't over power a 110 pound woman he needs to smash her head with an astray. Loser. 

Ok so Cora was missing for 2-5 months. (Someone posted 2 but I feel like I remember 5 but it really doesn't matter.) When the old guy finds her she had stitches in her had. JD wackes her in the head. I don't know how long stitches stay in but i feel like that's a long time. I always assumed she didn't remember because of the head injury so unless she gets hit again it's irrelevant. The keep her drugged up and use her for a sex slave??? I can see the weirdo saying he would take Cora off their hands. So if there is a sex cult they sure are waiting for the last minute to bring it up. 

Where did JD get the limp from? If it didn't mean anything he wouldn't need a limp.

The drug deal woman with the baby is that JD's old lady? Maybe she didn't feel like walking in front of a car was necessary.

Why would they ever let Cora go? Did they know that she didn't remember anything that happened?

If Phoebe did die at least she went out happy. She was sex crazed and got some. It was her choice to go out that way if that how it ended up. I don't think Frankie would have been charged with anything. JD was the one supplying the drugs so he would get possession but he wasn't selling anything. I don't know the proper term but I feel like it would be the accidental murder charge. Like no one meant for her to die but the drugs she took lead to her death. I'm sure a good lawyer would say it was the cancer but what to do I know. 

[Zoe]

^ JD claimed his limp was from Lyme disease.

 

I had read general spoilers for the book, so I already knew Phoebe had been there that night, and I figured that Maddie's parts were some kind of composite.  I didn't expect the whole "love at first sight" thing with Frankie though. Unless there's something more after they try to cover it up, there's no way he deserves what will happen.

[LoveLeigh]

This entire exploration of "why" doesn't matter, except to the extent it is interesting. Cora still murdered Frankie at the beach, no matter how this is perceived. She still has to go to prison. 

You do the crime, get ready to serve the time. Sayonara, Cora. 

In a way, it is sad she remembers. Now she has years in jail to ponder what happened. 

 

(Not really, it is fiction and Cora is Jessica Biel) 

[BigBlueMastiff]

11 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Why am I still watching this stupid show? Stupid and boring is a bad combination.  And to make matters even worse, my DVR shut off before it ended so I don't even know how the episode ended. And I'm not really sure that I care.

I am with you, gave up last week, only coming here to find out how it all ends.

[SoSueMe]

2 hours ago, eXiled said:

I had just made up my mind to stop watching this hot mess of a show when I remembered that next week is the last episode.

I know what you mean. In for a penny, in for a pound. It is beyond me how they can wrap this thing up in any logical way. It is lurid and misleading and the acting is not great. It reminds me of those click bait pop-ups that look sinister or creepy and turn out to be extreme close-ups of ordinary mundane things.

Just an observation, Phoebe probably went out the way she wanted, he was better than she deserved. She was one sick puppy in more ways than one. The Frankie character was the real victim, all the way around. 

[tennisgurl]

11 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

*Am I a weirdo for finding Frankie to be an absolute dreamboat in this episode?  Or at least as much as one can be while doing drugs and having an orgy. 

 

Not at all. Compared to the other guys, Frankie was Prince freaking Charming. The death of Phoebe was clearly accidental, and if he was charged for her death, it would probably be accidental murder or manslaughter at worst. He was actually sort of sweet in how charmed he seemed by Phoebe, it was clearly consensual sex, and he did try to save her, even if he was so panicked he didn't do very well.

If anything, Phoebe was probably just fine with how everything went down. The way she was talking to Cora earlier, she sounded like she was ready to die, and considering how sexually frustrated she was, having sex with a hot guy after doing coke and mali in the middle of an drug orgies was exactly how she would have wanted to go out.

[Laurie4H]

If you're so sick that you can barely walk, how could you be sex crazed is my question?  I loose interest if I have a sinus headache.  I guess everyone is different. 

The dialogue written for Phoebe is a bit contrived or maybe it's how the actress delivers it.

[Cotypubby]

I don't buy that Phoebe actually died in that scene. That makes no sense with what we know. So she disappears in the middle of the night and her super protective parents don't bother to ever look for her or report her missing? They just say "Oh well she died while Cora was away"? There is no record that Cora's sister went missing and was never found? No police report? Yeah right.

[TattleTeeny]

Maybe she can barely walk more because she is barely allowed to walk than because of her actual illness?

[Darian]

1 minute ago, Laurie4H said:

If you're so sick that you can barely walk, how could you be sex crazed is my question?  I loose interest if I have a sinus headache.  I guess everyone is different. 

 

Well, since you asked...Without going too far into TMI territory, I will simply say when I was 16, I underwent treatment for cancer and it was rough. I could barely function but  I was still a teenage girl, hormones and all, with an added desire to experience sex before/in case I died. 

 

Those partying scenes dragged and dragged. I haven't been watching close enough, but I swear the way the mother talked about Phoebe's death, it wasn't a mystery and her body wasn't missing. Did they sneak the body back into her bed? This show...gah. 

[diebartdie]

10 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

1. Why did Jd hit her husbands dad with a baseball bat?

2. Who shot JD? (Could be random drug deal)

3. So JD settled down with someone and has a  baby but Maddie is still hanging out?

4. Why was Cora chained to the bed and for how long?

#1 Because Cora's husband got JD's wife (and mother of an infant) arrested for hard drugs.

#2 My money is goons representing Todd from the orgy (Todd is the rando who shot up before feeling up Cora's knee)

#3 Yeah I dont get that either

#4 Well, choose from column A, "her sister was accidentally killed during drug fueled sex" and from column B, Todd agreed to take her off JD's hands and finally....your guess is as good as anyone else's with this weirdo show

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

3. So JD settled down with someone and has a  baby but Maddie is still hanging out?

Do we even know if that random blond was Maddie at JD's house? I personally didn't get a good look. But if so, why did she do nothing (from what I remember) during that whole scene? Another thing that makes me wonder if she's even real (not that I have any sensible idea of why she wouldn't be).

[Madding crowd]

I find this show intriguing but there are a lot of questions I have and it doesn't look like it will end the way we all thought. It is kind of like a mystery novel that throws out all kind of hints of something really crazy going on and then ends on a mundane note. My questions and nit picks doen't mean I am not enjoying; I tend to nitpick the shows I like the most. My questions/nitpicks after this last episode:

-what age was Cora supposed to be in the party scene? When we first saw baby Phoebe, Cora was about 4-5 years old so she should have been around 23. Was she going to college or working?  Considering her choice of clothes and wearing makeup etc, why would the parents still let her live at home?

-How did bedridden, religiously brought up. Phoebe know so much about sex and drugs? Again, don't get her parents allowing cell phones and unlimited internet.

-Why would her parents just say she recently died versus she was missing? She meant the whole world to the mother.

-What about the scary mask people and the hunters? Did none of this really exist? So the truth is Phoebe died during consensual sex plus drug taking and Frankie tried to save her? Is that worth killing him for?

-JD looks way older than Cora is supposed to be, has other girls hanging around and doesn't treat her well. She is a lovely woman, why is she interested in him?

Final comments: Frankie was pretty hot in the party scenes and Cora has the same pained look on her face during the flashback as she does in jail. Was she supposed to be having a good time? It didn't look like it at all. I hope the finale adds something else here, otherwise she is just a murderer who also holds some responsibility for her sister dying at that time. 

[Iguessnot]

2 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

This entire exploration of "why" doesn't matter, except to the extent it is interesting. Cora still murdered Frankie at the beach, no matter how this is perceived. She still has to go to prison. 

You do the crime, get ready to serve the time. Sayonara, Cora. 

In a way, it is sad she remembers. Now she has years in jail to ponder what happened. 

 

(Not really, it is fiction and Cora is Jessica Biel) 

Yeah, what we are seeing explains what happened but doesn't absolve her from responsibility. Secondly anyone else who can corroborate Cora's story is dead. Maggie's whereabouts are unknown, but I don't think she was downstairs. JD had already told her to go. 

[Iguessnot]

5 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I think that was the pattern that she used to stab him.

I am guessing that scene they keep showing where all the naked bodies are writhing on the floor in an orgy while the song is playing, never happened?

There was a second car following JD, the one that had all the guns and it probably had the guy in the mask in it. What happened to those guys?

Frankie's father had to cover all this up and make it appear that Frankie was in California at the time. He lied to the police.

I recognized the stabbing pattern, but whaling on someone who you think might be doing your sister harm, is just not done like that and it looked silly.

[mytmo]

I could've swore Cora's mother yelled at Cora about Phoebe dying because Cora was not home so I'm thinking she did not die that night during sex?

Also didn't JD say something to Cora's husband about Cora liked having 3 guys on the floor?  Where's the other guy?  The jittery sex scenes make me nauseous.

So confused so against my better judgement I'll have to watch again.

[Broderbits]

I was going to say if you want the real story, read the book, except that's fiction too! However, it does explain things more clearly and makes much more sense than this claptrap.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

I recognized the stabbing pattern, but whaling on someone who you think might be doing your sister harm, is just not done like that and it looked silly.

But why not? I don't think there's a set way to do something like this, and it would depend on where you were, where the attacker was, and how nuts you were. I'd think you'd just do whatever you could, without weighing the pros and cons of effectiveness/lack of silliness, in the moments you had.

Edited September 14, 2017 by TattleTeeny

[Teddybear]

I really really dislike everything about the sister.  I think it comes down to her being a bad actress.  I hate every scene she's in, which is unfortunate.  

I want to know how she so magically looked fairly healthy all night when she could barely breathe and stayed in bed all day at home.  

[BamaGirl]

31 minutes ago, Teddybear said:

I want to know how she so magically looked fairly healthy all night when she could barely breathe and stayed in bed all day at home.  

I noticed that too. As her time with Frankie went on, she looked healthier and healthier. She lost that sick grey color, and her cheeks and lips pinked up. Maybe she was "in love"?? Maybe being out of the sick bed helped her? Maybe the makeup crew got lazy...

So many good questions and interesting points are being made by everyone here! There's a lot to wrap up next week, and I'm not confident they'll tie up all the loose ends. After it's over, I may re-watch some episodes to catch the little things I missed.

Also, I noticed that I had trouble understanding the dialogue sometimes in this episode. I can't remember specific examples, but several times I thought, "what did they just say?" Did anyone else notice that?

[TattleTeeny]

Maybe the drugs and the booze. I don't know the specific differences between molly and ecstasy, but the latter can make you flushed, as can alcohol, and all wide-eyed and shit. Plus adrenaline from substances and maybe even teenage raging hormones? Maybe even just being out and about made her look better before it all crashed and burned.

[yourmomiseasy]

5 hours ago, SoSueMe said:

I know what you mean. In for a penny, in for a pound.

That's how I got stuck watching Bones until it ended :(

 

3 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I find this show intriguing but there are a lot of questions I have and it doesn't look like it will end the way we all thought. It is kind of like a mystery novel that throws out all kind of hints of something really crazy going on and then ends on a mundane note. My questions and nit picks doen't mean I am not enjoying; I tend to nitpick the shows I like the most. My questions/nitpicks after this last episode:

-what age was Cora supposed to be in the party scene? When we first saw baby Phoebe, Cora was about 4-5 years old so she should have been around 23. Was she going to college or working?  Considering her choice of clothes and wearing makeup etc, why would the parents still let her live at home?

-How did bedridden, religiously brought up. Phoebe know so much about sex and drugs? Again, don't get her parents allowing cell phones and unlimited internet.

-Why would her parents just say she recently died versus she was missing? She meant the whole world to the mother.

-What about the scary mask people and the hunters? Did none of this really exist? So the truth is Phoebe died during consensual sex plus drug taking and Frankie tried to save her? Is that worth killing him for?

-JD looks way older than Cora is supposed to be, has other girls hanging around and doesn't treat her well. She is a lovely woman, why is she interested in him?

Final comments: Frankie was pretty hot in the party scenes and Cora has the same pained look on her face during the flashback as she does in jail. Was she supposed to be having a good time? It didn't look like it at all. I hope the finale adds something else here, otherwise she is just a murderer who also holds some responsibility for her sister dying at that time. 

I was thinking she was just in to him because she's sheltered and he's a bad boy and showed some interest, but then I remembered her sister pimping her out, so it's not like she hasn't met any guys before.  So, I don't know.

[Iguessnot]

2 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

But why not? I don't think there's a set way to do something like this, and it would depend on where you were, where the attacker was, and how nuts you were. I'd think you'd just do whatever you could, without weighing the pros and cons of effectiveness/lack of silliness, in the moments you had.

What I'm trying to say is that Cora is not the Bride doing the Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique. The original fight was just an impulsive release of rage, not the macarena, so such a deliberate pattern, repeated three times now, looks silly.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Iguessnot

[DoubleUTeeEff]

3 hours ago, mytmo said:

I could've swore Cora's mother yelled at Cora about Phoebe dying because Cora was not home so I'm thinking she did not die that night during sex?

IIRC, Cora's mother told Detective Ambrose that Phoebe died of lymphoma a month after that July 4th weekend. So either she is lying or Phoebe did not actually die in this episode. I guess we have to wait and see. It could be that this whole incident happened, Phoebe lived and after Cora still left home like she was planning, lost her memory from trauma or abuse, was shot up with heroin at some point and wandered the streets for awhile.

I guess certain things that we've been shown have been unrelated to the case. Like Cora and Phoebe's scam they were running on men they stole from and the fact that the hotel had sexual harassment/assault issues. The mask is just someone having fun? There is no weird sex cult? Just JD pimping Cora out?

We still need to know the identity of the body. Was it Phoebe? Was it Maddie? Someone else? Is Maddie still around? 

I can say that even though Cora and Phoebe were having sex in the same room at the same time, at least the only sister to sister contact this time was a closed mouth kiss! That was a relief.

[SoSueMe]

2 hours ago, BamaGirl said:

I noticed that too. As her time with Frankie went on, she looked healthier and healthier. She lost that sick grey color, and her cheeks and lips pinked up. Maybe she was "in love"?? Maybe being out of the sick bed helped her? Maybe the makeup crew got lazy...

So many good questions and interesting points are being made by everyone here! There's a lot to wrap up next week, and I'm not confident they'll tie up all the loose ends. After it's over, I may re-watch some episodes to catch the little things I missed.

Also, I noticed that I had trouble understanding the dialogue sometimes in this episode. I can't remember specific examples, but several times I thought, "what did they just say?" Did anyone else notice that?

Sometimes closed captioning helps, but that tends to fail when you need it the most (during low mumbling dialogue).

[TattleTeeny]

1 hour ago, Iguessnot said:

What I'm trying to say is that Cora is not the Bride doing the Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique. The original fight was just an impulsive release of rage, not the macarena, so such a deliberate pattern, repeated three times now, looks silly.

I don't know what that reference is, but OK. And I'm saying that maybe it still could make sense. It probably won't and we're probably just supposed to believe it's some kind of trauma-induced muscle memory (which is as good a reason as any in a work of fiction, I suppose), but it's also possible that she has some kind of reason for such a "system."

[YoureSoUrban]

Quote

I want to know how she so magically looked fairly healthy all night when she could barely breathe and stayed in bed all day at home.  

THIS.

Quote

As her time with Frankie went on, she looked healthier and healthier. She lost that sick grey color, and her cheeks and lips pinked up. Maybe she was "in love"

And THIS.

Is this a joke?? Are the writers serious with this Phoebe person?? Bedridden, critically ill, can barely walk out of the house, certainly never been to a bar, but she can spout rom com-level witticisms with the hottest guy in the room, confidently flirt until he's completely smitten and romantically deflowers her?? Anyone who's gone to high school knows it's hard to put a single sentence together when you're within 50 feet of your crush. But pale, frail, socially-isolated Phoebe charms Frankie straight out the gate. This is so ridiculous it's offensive. I was thinking the entire thing was a fantasy sequence since, as someone noted above, it was the lamest.party.ever. and Cora was so... detached, just drifting from room to room like she just landed on this planet, the exact same look on her face no matter what was happening -- even during sex -- until she noticed Phoebe was in distress.

Only one more ep to go, thank God.

[SoSueMe]

46 minutes ago, YoureSoUrban said:

THIS.

And THIS.

Is this a joke?? Are the writers serious with this Phoebe person?? Bedridden, critically ill, can barely walk out of the house, certainly never been to a bar, but she can spout rom com-level witticisms with the hottest guy in the room, confidently flirt until he's completely smitten and romantically deflowers her?? Anyone who's gone to high school knows it's hard to put a single sentence together when you're within 50 feet of your crush. But pale, frail, socially-isolated Phoebe charms Frankie straight out the gate. This is so ridiculous it's offensive. I was thinking the entire thing was a fantasy sequence since, as someone noted above, it was the lamest.party.ever. and Cora was so... detached, just drifting from room to room like she just landed on this planet, the exact same look on her face no matter what was happening -- even during sex -- until she noticed Phoebe was in distress.

Only one more ep to go, thank God.

Perfectly stated.

[Neurochick]

I love this show.  I think it's brilliant.  Sometimes I think we like putting people in boxes, saying, "if you're sick then you wouldn't act like___"  or, "these people act this way and IRL these people won't act this way."  In real life, people aren't robots and human beings act however they want to act.  

What's this about a "sex cult?"  Where did that come from?  The only people having sex were Cora with JD and the other guy and Phoebe and Frankie.  The camera angles made it look like there were more people involved.  There were also no hunters, as Cora thought.  She and Phoebe were washing Phoebe's dress and the guys were shooting guns to tell them to come on.

The issue in the show is, Cora had blocked the whole incident from her mind, here memories were on point, but they weren't accurate.  Conversations with Maddie were really with Phoebe; Cora saw someone step on Maddie's ribs, breaking them, but it was really Frankie breaking Phoebe's ribs when trying to do CPR.  Yes, he should have put Phoebe on the floor, but they were all on goodness knows how many drugs, and when people are fucked up, they don't exactly think rationally.

Someone asked why was Cora living at home when she was 23; well I lived at home until I was 24.  There are some people who don't believe in kicking children out when they turn 18, some people believe children should live with them until they get married.

As for Cora hitting Frankie; I don't get the criticism that, "people don't hit like that?"  People hit however they want to hit, especially in a drug crazed haze.

Frankie mentioned that he'd come from California and was "hiding out" in the club, so his father probably didn't even know he was there.  He did tell his girlfriend that he had a relationship "for months" that changed him.  That was probably his cover story, as he couldn't tell his girlfriend that he had a one night stand with a girl who died in the middle of sex; that would be enough to change anybody.

As for Phoebe looking so healthy; yes she was sick, but I wonder if the reason she looked so sick was because her mother was sucking the soul and life out of her.  When Phoebe went to the bar, that was the first time she, at 19, was experiencing life and no one was treating her like she was made of glass, that was what she wanted.  As for Phoebe having a computer, I assumed it was what the father wanted, he didn't seem to be as religious as his wife, remember he was having an affair with the neighbor.  Phoebe had done nothing but lie in bed and live through her sister; she wanted to experience life, she wanted to have sex and nobody and nothing, not even illness was going to stop her.  I had a friend in college who had a bad heart and she wanted to go out and drink and have sex and party; she wanted to experience life because she didn't know how long she'd live (she died at 58).

Now, my questions are; whose body did they find?  Cora remembered a school bus and that's where they found the body. How did Cora know about the bus?  If Frankie accidentally killed Phoebe, then why did the parents say Phoebe died two months later?  I'm going to assume that Phoebe didn't die right then and the parents blamed Cora.  In the mother's mind, Phoebe was the "good" one, while Cora wasn't.  I think Cora always felt like she was a "sinner" because, in her mind, Phoebe died because of her.  

A few episodes ago, Ambrose interviewed a woman who was JD's landlord; apparently JD and Maddie lived with this woman and told her they were into polyamory, but in reality they stole from the woman; I wonder if JD was planning to steal from that creepy guy he introduced Cora to, he got rid of Maddie for a new partner, Cora and unfortunately, Cora going nuts on Frankie ruined the plans.  

Edited September 15, 2017 by Neurochick

[Laurie4H]

I assumed Phoebe looked better because they did her make up to go to the bar.  Lipstick, blush, eyeliner, and mascara can do wonders.  

[Iguessnot]

4 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

I don't know what that reference is, but OK. And I'm saying that maybe it still could make sense. It probably won't and we're probably just supposed to believe it's some kind of trauma-induced muscle memory (which is as good a reason as any in a work of fiction, I suppose), but it's also possible that she has some kind of reason for such a "system."

The reference is from Kill Bill. Google the phrase and you can see a clip of the scene.