S07.E04: The Spoils of War

[Zanne]

On 8/7/2017 at 5:01 PM, BitterApple said:

IIRC, the prophecy said she'd be killed by a younger brother....

 

On 8/7/2017 at 5:17 PM, NeenerNeener said:

If it didn't mean that Tyrion would have to be dead, I'd like Arya to kill her wearing Tyrion's face. But...I don't want Tyrion dead, so it will have to happen some other way.

Jamie is Cersei's younger brother, too, since she was born first. What if Arya killed Cersei wearing Jamie's face? She wants to kill whomever shoved her brother out the window, so it would serve her purposes and get two lions with one face.

[riley702]

1 hour ago, CletusMusashi said:

If Bronn rescues Jaime, he's entitled to some gold for it. In other words, Jaime should give Bronn a hand.

LOL

[ElectricBoogaloo]

16 hours ago, MrsR said:

He did order Bronn to activate the Scorpion. Bronn told him to do it himself and Jaime pointed out he couldn't operate it with one hand.

If you read the original post, the criticism was that Jaime only ordered Bronn to do that AFTER he wasted a lot of time dicking around which resulted in most of his men being burnt to a crisp and the food that they had just confiscated from Highgarden being torched. The sequence of events was:
(1) Jaime sees a dragon flying over the Dothraki heading straight towards his men and the supplies
(2) Drogon torches his men and some wagons
(3) The Dothraki break through the first line and Jaime tells the others to hold the line which results in his men being stabbed and beheaded by the Dothraki
(4) Jaime watches as the Dothraki rise in their saddles and start aiming arrows at his army (he is literally sitting on his horse doing nothing but watching the destruction of his men and supplies)
(5) Drogon circles around and torches more wagons and men
(6) Jaime orders the archers to assemble
(7) Drogon comes in for a third pass and burns even more wagons and soldiers
(8) Jaime finally decides to use the weapon SPECIFICALLY MADE to take down a dragon against the dragon that has thrice toasted his shit

I'm not a military strategy expert, but if I knew I'd be facing a seemingly unstoppable enemy weapon and someone gave me something that was designed to disable said weapon, I would get that thing ready to go as soon as I saw said weapon coming at me. It would have taken two seconds to dispatch ONE soldier to get the Scorpion armed and ready as soon as Jaime saw Drogon flying towards them. Instead, he let his men and supplies get fireballed THREE times before he thought oh hey, maybe I should use that special dragon weapon now instead of saving it for a special occasion!

13 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I could never understand why the fan base gets so grossed out over the Twincest, but ships the hell out of Jon and Dany. Either way it's a blood relative having sex with a blood relative.

For me, the difference is that you can't get much more related than twins (I'm not saying I'd give a big thumbs up to aunt/nephew relations, but they're not AS related as twin siblings) but on top of that, Cersei and Jaime grew up together knowing that they were twins and knowing that they should not be fucking. Jon and Dany don't know each other from Adam. They haven't spent the last 25 years being raised as siblings so if they're attracted to each other, right now it's no different than being attracted to some rando.

For what it's worth, apparently there are a fair number of instances where children who were not raised by both bio parents find their opposite sex bio parent (meaning a son finds his mother or a daughter finds her father) as adults and then end up having a consensual sexual relationship. In addition to the numerous stories you can find online about these relationships, my old boss used to get calls at his lab from people in these relationships who wanted to know if there was scientific data to justify that what they were doing was okay (and no, he didn't work at some weird incest lab!). Every time he got another one of these calls he was like, "Uh, why do people keep calling ME to ask about this?"

4 hours ago, Casually Observant said:

I wondered about when Jaime told Bronn to activate the Scorpion and Bronn responded with, "You do it!"  Was Bronn reluctant to use such a thing on the magnificent dragon or did he think that Jaime should get the accolades if he killed the dragon, or was he just afraid of getting killed or incinerated on the way to the wagon with the device?  What do you guys think? But it was true that Jaime could not have done it with only one good hand.

I think it was none of those reasons. Bronn is a mercenary who was promised a castle several seasons ago and still hasn't received one yet. He has always been honest about being a mercenary. He does what he does for the compensation, not due to loyalty or personal feelings. He did what he was asked but he still hasn't received his castle, so why should he run across the battlefield to use this weapon? Why risk life and limb and drawing the wrath of a dragon who is currently incinerating everything in sight when chances are he will not receive any additional payment?

2 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

If Bronn rescues Jaime, he's entitled to some gold for it. In other words, Jaime should give Bronn a hand.

[Lady S.]

FWIW, Benioff confirms in the Inside the Ep that Jon/Dany are meant to be attracted to each other. In case anyone couldn't tell tptb's intentions from the lingering looks, the stepping closer and closer to each other, the shot of them walking out of the cave framed as if they were holding hands, or Davos's efforts at matchmaking. I swear, I think someone on here even said the only reason for Edd wouldn't tell Jon about Bran's arrival was to delay that reunion/parentage reveal until after Jon met Dany. There's no other reason for that plot contrivance that I can see and the only sure way to prevent incest would be for Jon to know and purposely avoid it. 

[CletusMusashi]

You know why I'm sure Jon and Danaerys are going to have sex? 

Because it will be yet another way to torture Ser Friendzone.

I figure the dragon will be less injured than we expect. She'll fly back to Dragonstone. Dragonstone, miraculously, will be unconquered, despite her not leaving anybody there except Varys and Missendei, one of whom is busy reading dirty ravens from Grey Worm. D and J will boink, and the next morning Jorah will show up.

Jorah: "Khaleesi! I finally got my rocks off!"

Jon: "Way ahead of you, dude."

[paigow]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

my old boss used to get calls at his lab from people in these relationships who wanted to know if there was scientific data to justify that what they were doing was okay (and no, he didn't work at some weird incest lab!).

Your old boss was Gil Grissom? Dyslexic, literal motherfuckers kept calling his insect lab for advice?

[Clanstarling]

8 hours ago, Lady S. said:

Worth pointing out that Jaime said the Mad King meant to burn the entire city, including the Red Keep with himself and Jaime inside. I don't think Jaime was wrong in his kingslaying, but taking the small risk of punishment from a new king who needed the old one killed anyway (at worst, I think he would have still had the option of escaping execution by asking to join the Night's Watch) vs. the very certain risk of getting blown up along with thousands of innocent people is more a necessity than a selfless sacrifice. The fact that most people judge him as his father's son and assume his motives for betraying the Targs were no better than Tywin's is because Jaime never felt the need to explain himself to them.

I think a fair number judged him for being an Oathbreaker - a huge deal for the Kingsguard who swear to protect the King/Queen, despite the fact that probably the majority were relieved that he did it.

7 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

If Bronn rescues Jaime, he's entitled to some gold for it. In other words, Jaime should give Bronn a hand.

Lol. It could become a new standard of measurement - a hand's worth of gold.

[Haiti D]

Re: Drogon's injury

 

maybe this will parallel Khal Drogo's injury.   It may seem superficial but might lead to infection.  And a witch will promise a cure, etc.  And Dany will murder a horse again lol, I dunno

[penelope79]

What an amazing episode! Gosh, I'm gonna miss this show!

I saw lots of comments about Sansa being jealous of Arya. Personally, I don't think so. Sansa never wanted to master the sword, as well as Arya never wanted to be a "Lady". Their personalities always balanced each other, hence I don't see why any of them should be jealous. It was my impression that, instead,  Sansa looked worried and surprised: I guess she couldn't believe her own eyes seeing Arya fighting so impressively. And probably realized how much they missed of each other's lives, to the point that they're quite different from the bickering sisters they used to be. I liked their reunion and I also loved that they hugged twice. :)

As for Arya and Brienne, it was nice but as far as  I'm concerned I think scenes like these waste the precious time of a very short season (as much as I'm loving it, S7 would have benefited from a longer season, 7 episode are really few).

As many of you already mentioned, the battle was awesome. I'm usually not into battle scenes in movies or tv shows, but GoT makes me love them. I got shivers down my spine when I heard the Dothraki approaching and wow, they were absolutely frightening! I appreciated that little touch of the Lannister soldier trembling in fear. And that was even before Daenerys and Drogon gloriously appeared on my screen! With this episode I understood once more how much I love Dany's character even though, maybe too many times, I read comments that clearly show double standard, as far as she's concerned.

That said, as much as I root for her ( and the Starks, and Tyrion etc.), and even though I want Jaime to finally abandon Cersei once and for all (and find his road to redemption), I reliazed I don't want him to die, at least not now. I know he's not dead and he will be saved for sure, but you know what I mean. His arc is far from being over and his death can wait, for now.

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

For me, the difference is that you can't get much more related than twins (I'm not saying I'd give a big thumbs up to aunt/nephew relations, but they're not AS related as twin siblings) but on top of that, Cersei and Jaime grew up together knowing that they were twins and knowing that they should not be fucking. Jon and Dany don't know each other from Adam. They haven't spent the last 25 years being raised as siblings so if they're attracted to each other, right now it's no different than being attracted to some rando.

This is exactly how I see them, too. And it's also the reason why I could not understand why so many people were ready to see Jon and Sansa hooking up "because they are ONLY cousins": yes, that's true, but they have also been raised as brother and sister. Jon and Daenerys just met and do not even know they are related. For me, this is the huge difference between them and Jaime/Cersei, even though normally I don't root for incests, lol!

Someone wondered upthread about the average viewer's reaction to Jon and Daenerys getting together (my apologies for not remembering who). If the average viewer is someone who watches the show but never read the books, nor googled about it,  I think everything will be ok. People like my colleagues, some friends, and even my 75 yrs old mother love the show, but are not aware of anything else except of what the show clearly points out. Which means that, in this case, while all of them understood that Jon is actually Lyanna Stark's son, at the same time nobody caught that bit of info about Rhaegar Targaryen being his father. Daenery's older brother. And no, not Viserys, the one who died with a golden crown. The other one. Yes, she had another brother who died before the beginning of the show... I think you all get my point. GoT is a wonderful show, but not the easiest to follow. :) These viewers will probably find out that Jon and Daenerys are related when Bran tells Jon, and maybe Jon and Dany will be already a couple by then.

In any case, in that cave, for a moment I thought Dany was about to propose to Jon, too, ahah!  Jokes aside, I don't know why nobody came up with the idea of a marriage between the two yet, in order to cement their alliance once and for all. It would actually be the perfect solution to many issues, most of all the "bend the knee" one.

[taanja]

15 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

I'm kind of miffed that Arya didn't at least apologize to Brienne for not trusting her back in season four's finale and running from her, since she really was there to take her home.

What had Brienne ever done to earn Arya's trust? Arya didn't know her from jack. 

[DarkRaichu]

9 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

Much as I like the dragons, I think some people are overestimating how likeable te dragons are. To me, they are awesome. If they were attacking me, they would quickly shift from "endangered species" to "terrifying monster." Think how scary a saltwater crocodile or great white shark is, then how scary they would be if they could fly. Now make them bigger, give them firebeath, and make them apparently quite willing to fight a prolonged battle against your entire army. Bronn fighting off a dragon is no more a case of "Bronn-hulk SMASH puny endangered species!" than it would be if he were banishing a demon. A very, very large, very, very aggressive demon. That breathes fire.

That sounds like a plot for the next Sharknado (VI, is it??) :D :D :D

[DrSparkles]

Phew, if it weren't for these forums, I wouldn't know Jamie from Tyrion! J/k. I love Nickoli, so it's hard to hate on Jamie (for me).

I've been rewatching the series (seasons 1-3 so far) & I had completely forgotten about Jamie, Brienne, and the bear!!! Jamie returned for Brienne & jumped in the bear ring to save her. Damn. And as AWESOME as it was to see Dany flying in on a dragon, her speech in Seas 3 when she freed the slaves was a HELL  YEAH  moment for me.

I'd also like to see Tyrion riding a dragon & Jamie to kill Cersei. I did think for a split second Jamie was gonna be eaten by Drogon & I thought that would be a pretty cool death (for him, not me!). If I see Hodor as a wight, I'm going to cry like 7 babies.

[Daisy]

14 minutes ago, DrSparkles said:

Phew, if it weren't for these forums, I wouldn't know Jamie from Tyrion! J/k. I love Nickoli, so it's hard to hate on Jamie (for me).

I've been rewatching the series (seasons 1-3 so far) & I had completely forgotten about Jamie, Brienne, and the bear!!! Jamie returned for Brienne & jumped in the bear ring to save her. Damn. And as AWESOME as it was to see Dany flying in on a dragon, her speech in Seas 3 when she freed the slaves was a HELL  YEAH  moment for me.

I'd also like to see Tyrion riding a dragon & Jamie to kill Cersei. I did think for a split second Jamie was gonna be eaten by Drogon & I thought that would be a pretty cool death (for him, not me!). If I see Hodor as a wight, I'm going to cry like 7 babies.

Honestly, I'm with you. there is SO MUCH about this show that I love... but I can't keep everything straight. like it took me ages to realise there was a JORAH (whom I love), JOJEN (who is meera's brother) and JAQEN who is the faceless man. i wrote so many posts interchanging the three of them and i thought i felt so smart keeping up and a lovely poster was like. yah. no. you got them ALL wrong. 

And the little nuances that you only get from here.... lol i think this is a show you can rewatch several times and I think still pick things up. 
Hodor better not be a wight though. the Line must be drawn HEAH!

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

If you read the original post, the criticism was that Jaime only ordered Bronn to do that AFTER he wasted a lot of time dicking around which resulted in most of his men being burnt to a crisp and the food that they had just confiscated from Highgarden being torched. The sequence of events was:
(1) Jaime sees a dragon flying over the Dothraki heading straight towards his men and the supplies
(2) Drogon torches his men and some wagons
(3) The Dothraki break through the first line and Jaime tells the others to hold the line which results in his men being stabbed and beheaded by the Dothraki
(4) Jaime watches as the Dothraki rise in their saddles and start aiming arrows at his army (he is literally sitting on his horse doing nothing but watching the destruction of his men and supplies)
(5) Drogon circles around and torches more wagons and men
(6) Jaime orders the archers to assemble
(7) Drogon comes in for a third pass and burns even more wagons and soldiers
(8) Jaime finally decides to use the weapon SPECIFICALLY MADE to take down a dragon against the dragon that has thrice toasted his shit

I'm not a military strategy expert, but if I knew I'd be facing a seemingly unstoppable enemy weapon and someone gave me something that was designed to disable said weapon, I would get that thing ready to go as soon as I saw said weapon coming at me. It would have taken two seconds to dispatch ONE soldier to get the Scorpion armed and ready as soon as Jaime saw Drogon flying towards them. Instead, he let his men and supplies get fireballed THREE times before he thought oh hey, maybe I should use that special dragon weapon now instead of saving it for a special occasion!

 

my best guess... is that Jamie was totally, completely... poleaxed about what he was seeing. i'm more curious how on earth they decided to take it with them. like did they think Dany COULD attack that line?
. 

[Gobi]

3 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Honestly, I'm with you. there is SO MUCH about this show that I love... but I can't keep everything straight. like it took me ages to realise there was a JORAH (whom I love), JOJEN (who is meera's brother) and JAQEN who is the faceless man. i wrote so many posts interchanging the three of them and i thought i felt so smart keeping up and a lovely poster was like. yah. no. you got them ALL wrong. 

And the little nuances that you only get from here.... lol i think this is a show you can rewatch several times and I think still pick things up. 
Hodor better not be a wight though. the Line must be drawn HEAH!

my best guess... is that Jamie was totally, completely... poleaxed about what he was seeing. i'm more curious how on earth they decided to take it with them. like did they think Dany COULD attack that line?
. 

I imagine  they brought the ballista with them  because they knew they could be attacked by a dragon at any time. Why it didn't have its own crew (maybe they ran away? If so, poor choice of crewmen), and why Jamie was so slow in reacting is hard to say. I agree with those who say he was just stunned. It's one thing to know dragons exist, and quite another to see one for  the first time (especially if it's attacking you).

[enoughcats]

14 minutes ago, Gobi said:

 because they knew they could be attacked by a dragon at any time.

When did Cersei and her wizard learn that dragons were on the march../ wing?  And from whom?  

Further, who told them that a dragon would be used to attack her army after the (generally) unknown raid on HighGarden?  Someone with a lot of trust by Cersei because she deflected her 'big gun' away from protecting herself to protecting the end of the trail of gold and food.  

Who was so trusted by Cersei that those decisions were made?  And why is the only person that I can think of Varys?

[Couver]

10 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

 

Much as I like the dragons, I think some people are overestimating how likeable te dragons are. To me, they are awesome. If they were attacking me, they would quickly shift from "endangered species" to "terrifying monster." Think how scary a saltwater crocodile or great white shark is, then how scary they would be if they could fly. Now make them bigger, give them firebeath, and make them apparently quite willing to fight a prolonged battle against your entire army. Bronn fighting off a dragon is no more a case of "Bronn-hulk SMASH puny endangered species!" than it would be if he were banishing a demon. A very, very large, very, very aggressive demon. That breathes fire.

I personally just get attached to animals on TV shows/movies. They are more sympathetic since they don't 'sin' in the way human characters do. The dire wolf deaths have always hit me especially hard. I agree that the dragons are a terrifying sight now that they are grown but all I can see when I look at them are the three little baby dragons chained up in the House of the Undying. Which is funny because even as babies they were scary since they burned the warlock in that episode. I find they just do what they do by nature and to protect or help their mother. Weird I know but it was super sweet how even wounded Drogon was not letting that bad man near his mom. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Couver

[Unknown poster]

23 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

When did Cersei and her wizard learn that dragons were on the march../ wing?  And from whom?  

Further, who told them that a dragon would be used to attack her army after the (generally) unknown raid on HighGarden?  Someone with a lot of trust by Cersei because she deflected her 'big gun' away from protecting herself to protecting the end of the trail of gold and food.  

Who was so trusted by Cersei that those decisions were made?  And why is the only person that I can think of Varys?

I highly doubt that was was the only Scorpion in the arsenal. Qyburn told Cersai that he had men working around the clock when he unveiled the initial weapon. 

[DarkRaichu]

39 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

When did Cersei and her wizard learn that dragons were on the march../ wing?  And from whom?  

Further, who told them that a dragon would be used to attack her army after the (generally) unknown raid on HighGarden?  Someone with a lot of trust by Cersei because she deflected her 'big gun' away from protecting herself to protecting the end of the trail of gold and food.  

Who was so trusted by Cersei that those decisions were made?  And why is the only person that I can think of Varys?

I think they just like to be prepared.  Like if you know your enemy is famous for their cavalry, you want to bring a group of soldiers with spears and shields just in case.  In this case, his enemy has dragon, so he is travelling with his best anti-dragon weapon just in case of ambush 

[Calamity Jane]

23 hours ago, sadie said:

Oh and P.S. - I forgot how stinking cute direwolf pups were. 

My daughter just went to Dublin for the U2 home concert, and took a Game of Thrones tour while there.  One of the sites they went to was where the dire wolf pups were found, and she got to meet two of them, now all grown up!  I think for her it was the highlight.  

[kdm07]

On 8/7/2017 at 3:00 AM, CletusMusashi said:

Dragonstone needs better security protocols. I know that Jon and Davos aren't going to ambush Dany and Missi in the mine and slaughter them, and I believe that Dany also believes that, but shouldn't... whoever the hell is on guard duty.. want to send a bunch of people along anyway? 

I actually don't know who's doing anything. There didn't seem to be any servants left in the castle when they arrived, but Dany and Missendei, and, yes, Jon still have access to hair stylists. Maybe the Dothraki women and children came along and are doing all the peripheral stuff, but if so we should be seeing them. Is Varys like Alfred Pennyworth, dusting the entire mansion in between strategic sessions?

In our house, our theory is that Missandei is doing her own hair and Dany's. No idea who's doing Jon's hair though.

[CletusMusashi]

Davos, I guess. That's why they're so inseperable.

He's a man of many skills, and this is one that he never really got to  use on Stannis.

Edited August 9, 2017 by CletusMusashi

[Star Aristille]

3 hours ago, taanja said:

What had Brienne ever done to earn Arya's trust? Arya didn't know her from jack. 

Maybe not, but she had no reason to lie to her.  Unless Arya was just salty from her killing the Hound.

[taanja]

2 minutes ago, Star Aristille said:

Maybe not, but she had no reason to lie to her.  Unless Arya was just salty from her killing the Hound.

I'm not sure what you are saying?

I've watched that scene a couple times. Brienne and Pod happen upon Arya and the Hound out in the middle of nowhere. The Hound is taking a shit. Arya tells him he can shit another time cuz there are people there. Brienne figures out who Arya is and tells Arya that she is there to protect her (per Catelyn Stark) but Arya has never met her before and says her mother is dead and why should she trust that Brienne wants to protect her? That's when the Hound and Brienne start their epic fight.

Arya doesn't see Brienne or Pod after that. She only goes down to where the Hound is laying all bloody and almost dead. Then she takes off for Bravos.

So? What lie? 

[Star Aristille]

Just now, taanja said:

I'm not sure what you are saying?

I've watched that scene a couple times. Brienne and Pod happen upon Arya and the Hound out in the middle of nowhere. The Hound is taking a shit. Arya tells him he can shit another time cuz there are people there. Brienne figures out who Arya is and tells Arya that she is there to protect her (per Catelyn Stark) but Arya has never met her before and says her mother is dead and why should she trust that Brienne wants to protect her? That's when the Hound and Brienne start their epic fight.

Arya doesn't see Brienne or Pod after that. She only goes down to where the Hound is laying all bloody and almost dead. Then she takes off for Bravos.

So? What lie? 

I meant Brienne had no reason to lie to Arya at that time.  Obviously.

[CletusMusashi]

About Jaime: I don't think he's as close to pure evil as Cersei. Hell, I don't even think he's as evil as Papa Tarly. "Hey, you know what would make these soldiers work better? Whipping them!" "Um, can't we try just telling them to hurry up first?" But he is a douche bag. Like Cersei and Tywin, he is perfectly capble of using a veneer of civility and even kindness, but just like them when he's under stress that veneer crumbles rapidly. He inherited a lot of his father's "We're better than anybody else, especially the lowborn" bullshit from Tywin, and a lifetime around Cersei didn't help that any. Bronn is the best right hand man money can buy, and Tyrion appeciated that. Jaime was getting extremely dickish about a "lesser" person getting uppity with him about being cheated. I'm not even sure how many hero points I give him for the regicide. I mean, wasn't he in the city that Aerys was about to burn up? it's nice that everybody else got saved, too, but I think a big part of his motivation was that he didn't want to burn to death as collateral damage. Just like if Bronn had ended the war by killing Drogon and Dany, I'm sue there are lots of southerners who would consider him a hero. But once he had that scorpion, he wasn't shooting it to be a hero. He was shooting it to avoid being Dothraki-stomped or turned into crispy-fried dinosaur chow.

About rescuing Jaime: I'm not sure any swimming will even be necessary. The deep water is literally right next to the shallow water. Just sort of crawl-hurdle onto the higher section of ocean floor, and water will be immediately shallow enough to stand up. Or... maybe Euron will teleport by real fast and fish him out with a magnetic anchor.

[ImpinAintEasy]

5 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

About Jaime: I don't think he's as close to pure evil as Cersei. Hell, I don't even think he's as evil as Papa Tarly. "Hey, you know what would make these soldiers work better? Whipping them!" "Um, can't we try just telling them to hurry up first?" But he is a douche bag. Like Cersei and Tywin, he is perfectly capble of using a veneer of civility and even kindness, but just like them when he's under stress that veneer crumbles rapidly. He inherited a lot of his father's "We're better than anybody else, especially the lowborn" bullshit from Tywin, and a lifetime around Cersei didn't help that any. Bronn is the best right hand man money can buy, and Tyrion appeciated that. Jaime was getting extremely dickish about a "lesser" person getting uppity with him about being cheated. I'm not even sure how many hero points I give him for the regicide. I mean, wasn't he in the city that Aerys was about to burn up? it's nice that everybody else got saved, too, but I think a big part of his motivation was that he didn't want to burn to death as collateral damage. Just like if Bronn had ended the war by killing Drogon and Dany, I'm sue there are lots of southerners who would consider him a hero. But once he had that scorpion, he wasn't shooting it to be a hero. He was shooting it to avoid being Dothraki-stomped or turned into crispy-fried dinosaur chow.

About rescuing Jaime: I'm not sure any swimming will even be necessary. The deep water is literally right next to the shallow water. Just sort of crawl-hurdle onto the higher section of ocean floor, and water will be immediately shallow enough to stand up. Or... maybe Euron will teleport by real fast and fish him out with a magnetic anchor.

 

Jaime is/was arrogant. He no doubt thought he was better than everyone, particularly when he still had his sword hand. But that plays into my opinion of his bitterness. I know it sounds like I'm just making excuses for him, and I guess I am, but I view his banter with Bronn no differently than Tyrion's. Tyrion bickered with him about wanting more money too. 

 

As as far as Jaime killing Aerys to save his own skin, I simply don't believe that to be the case. He is not afraid of dying, and contrary to popular belief, he did take his oaths seriously, and was extremely conflicted about having to kill Aerys. He even kept his oath to protect the king's secrets(the reason he never told anyone about Aerys' plan to incinerate the entire city).  So I do consider the regicide to be extremely heroic in that it basically ruined his own life/reputation, where as a soldier an honorable death may have been preferable. I believe he may have even expected to be executed or sent to the Wall by the usurper. 

[Tyro49]

When Dany got her dragon eggs as a wedding present back in season 1, was it ever stated or implied that they were the only ones in existence? I know they were very rare, but were they the only ones? I'm asking because we know the dragons' true purpose is to destroy the WW.

[CeeBeeGee]

5 minutes ago, Tyro49 said:

When Dany got her dragon eggs as a wedding present back in season 1, was it ever stated or implied that they were the only ones in existence? I know they were very rare, but were they the only ones? I'm asking because we know the dragons' true purpose is to destroy the WW.

I have been thinking about that as well. They couldn't possibly be the only ones, and we know the eggs can last without being hatched for a long time.

 

Also I am still marveling over the Dothraki being able to stand in their saddles like that and shoot arrows--I was watching/reading something yesterday where a commenter poo-pooed the idea but I ride horses and really, it's just a matter of raising the stirrups appropriately. You'd have to be an amazing rider, of course, but the technology is there, it just has to be modified. (The invention of the stirrup was a big deal in military technology.)

[SimoneS]

50 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Also I am still marveling over the Dothraki being able to stand in their saddles like that and shoot arrows--I was watching/reading something yesterday where a commenter poo-pooed the idea but I ride horses and really, it's just a matter of raising the stirrups appropriately. You'd have to be an amazing rider, of course, but the technology is there, it just has to be modified. (The invention of the stirrup was a big deal in military technology.)

Very true. The Mongols are the first known military to use stirrups which were invented by the Chinese. Mongol children learned to ride from childhood and were expert riders by the time they were drafted into their military. Many of them were amazing archers as well. They would stand in their stirrups and shoot their arrows, picking off their enemies after they were scattered by gun powder weapons. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by SimoneS

[paigow]

2 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

Davos, I guess. That's why they're so inseperable.

He's a man of many skills, and this is one that he never really got to  use on Stannis.

Super skills - since he really only has less / fewer than 2 functioning hands....

[paigow]

2 hours ago, taanja said:

I'm not sure what you are saying?

I've watched that scene a couple times. Brienne and Pod happen upon Arya and the Hound out in the middle of nowhere. The Hound is taking a shit. Arya tells him he can shit another time cuz there are people there. Brienne figures out who Arya is and tells Arya that she is there to protect her (per Catelyn Stark) but Arya has never met her before and says her mother is dead and why should she trust that Brienne wants to protect her? That's when the Hound and Brienne start their epic fight.

 

The clinching point was the Hound forcing Brienne to confess that Jamie Lannister gave her that fancy golden sword - Oathkeeper - before fighting....

[MrWhyt]

5 hours ago, enoughcats said:

When did Cersei and her wizard learn that dragons were on the march../ wing?  And from whom?  

Further, who told them that a dragon would be used to attack her army after the (generally) unknown raid on HighGarden?  Someone with a lot of trust by Cersei because she deflected her 'big gun' away from protecting herself to protecting the end of the trail of gold and food.  

Who was so trusted by Cersei that those decisions were made?  And why is the only person that I can think of Varys?

She knows Dany has dragons, she knows Dany is her enemy, ergo they brought along weapons that can hurt their enemy when they went out in the field.

[Absurda]

Regarding Jamie, I like him and I hope he's not dead. I don't know if he can be fully redeemed but he does have redeeming qualities and has done good things. Of course, he's also done a lot of bad things. To me, this makes him more of a grey character than really black or white and makes him pretty interesting.

To me, the big difference in Jamie's bad deeds vs. someone like Cercei is he doesn't take pleasure in it. He's not petty or cruel and he doesn't enjoy watching people suffer like Cercei does. Even when he pushed Bran out the window it wasn't because he really wanted to hurt Bran or see him suffer but it was the only real way to protect him and his sister. So, he's been bad but not evil but he's also had times where he's been good but not, necessarily, virtuous

I want to see more of Jamie and I absolutely want to see him have a reunion with Tyrion. So, to my mind, if Bronn pushed him in the water, Bronn can very well fish him out. Though, I do have day dreams about Jaime being fished out by a giant dragon foot and being captured that way.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Also I am still marveling over the Dothraki being able to stand in their saddles like that and shoot arrows--I was watching/reading something yesterday where a commenter poo-pooed the idea but I ride horses and really, it's just a matter of raising the stirrups appropriately. You'd have to be an amazing rider, of course, but the technology is there, it just has to be modified. (The invention of the stirrup was a big deal in military technology.)

The behind the scenes featurette about the loot train battle talks about that. The horse stunt coordinator said they had special stirrups made for the Dothraki archers. It's a pretty interesting video if you haven't already seen it! It's posted in the Inside the Episode thread. 

[ennui]

3 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Also I am still marveling over the Dothraki being able to stand in their saddles like that and shoot arrows--I was watching/reading something yesterday where a commenter poo-pooed the idea

Really? I've seen that same stunt at trick riding exhibitions. I didn't think anything of it -- dramatic, yes, but doable for anyone who knows how and has the right saddle.

[Save Yourself]

Brilliant episode for all the reasons that the many posts here have already discussed. 

I cried when Arya finally got back to Winterfell and when she reunited with Sansa. The fight scene with Brienne was awesome and it was great that such a massively popular show depicted a duel between two females with the same earnestness that they would two male characters. 

My main quibble with this episode was when Missandei said that Dany was the Queen they chose - Davos made the quip about changing sides but I assumed he was going to say and Jon is the King the North chose, I can't understand why he didn't make that retort. I thought it was casting unearned shade onto Jon who has been the most selfless character in the entire show, time and again he has voluntarily faced death, has not wavered in his desire to pull together an army to defeat the real enemy, the white walkers, and has not wanted accolades for his courage. Davos knows all this - and that Jon was even killed by his own men for his efforts! - so to dismiss Jon like this (even in a joking manner) didn't feel true to Davos.

I'm blind to the chemistry between Jon and Dany, though I admit I am biased as I dislike Dany with all her entitlement and million titles. I never thought they'd go there since it seems too obvious but looks like I might be wrong given how other posters have interpreted their scenes. 

I'll be surprised if Jaime is taken hostage as it's already been done, I actually think that Tyrion might rescue him. I really want to see a reunion between the two, I felt so sad for Tyrion watching his conflict with the battle as a whole and then his fear when Jaime went on his suicide mission. Speaking of, I believe that Jaime saw the opportunity to kill Dany knowing it was incredibly unlikely he'd make it and was risking his life but decided to take the chance anyway given what he said to Bronn earlier about not abandoning his men. 

[Bec]

Eh, I didn’t take Davos’ "mind if I switch sides?" remark as a dismissal of Jon at all. it speaks well of Jon’s character that his adviser would feel comfortable joking with him about switching sides without worrying about getting his head chopped off. Davos was dropping some not-so-subtle hints at Jon there: “nudge, nudge, see, the Dragon Queen is nice, you two would make such a cute couple!”

I don’t think Dany and Jon will be a couple by the end, but oh, there’s definitely some romance brewing right now. It’s just not going to last. Because nobody is allowed to be happy for long on this show. There’ll be drama and brooding galore when they find out they’re related.

6 hours ago, Couver said:

all I can see when I look at them are the three little baby dragons chained up in the House of the Undying.

The fact that we watched them hatch from eggs and grow up from little baby dragons probably has a lot to do with how attached we are to those dragons despite their "mythical creature" status and terrifying potential for mass destruction.

4 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

I'm not even sure how many hero points I give him for the regicide. I mean, wasn't he in the city that Aerys was about to burn up? it's nice that everybody else got saved, too, but I think a big part of his motivation was that he didn't want to burn to death as collateral damage.

This reminds me of this exchange from Guardians of the Galaxy:

Rocket: What has the galaxy ever done for you? Why would you want to save it?

Starlord: Because I'm one of the idiots who lives in it!

[ParadoxLost]

6 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

 I'm not even sure how many hero points I give him for the regicide. I mean, wasn't he in the city that Aerys was about to burn up? it's nice that everybody else got saved, too, but I think a big part of his motivation was that he didn't want to burn to death as collateral damage.

And it was his father and Lannister soldiers he was saving.  I wonder if he'd have been that quick to become a Kingslayer if Ned and his army arrived first.  Would Jamie have saved the "innocents" or would he have abandoned his post and let things shake out as they would.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, Save Yourself said:

My main quibble with this episode was when Missandei said that Dany was the Queen they chose - Davos made the quip about changing sides but I assumed he was going to say and Jon is the King the North chose, I can't understand why he didn't make that retort.

The writing has been really shaky this year. It's like they're trying to insert some comic relief and it's falling flat. IIRC, Davos made that comment in response to Missandei's explanation about marriage and bastards, which really has no relevance to a middle aged man who's not married and who's only son is dead. 

[Save Yourself]

4 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

The writing has been really shaky this year. It's like they're trying to insert some comic relief and it's falling flat. IIRC, Davos made that comment in response to Missandei's explanation about marriage and bastards, which really has no relevance to a middle aged man who's not married and who's only son is dead. 

I'd have to rewatch up be sure but I thought it was when she gave her speech about all the slaves that Dany freed and the other things she's done that have impressed Missendei which supported her statement that Dany is the Queen they chose. 

[BitterApple]

9 minutes ago, Save Yourself said:

I'd have to rewatch up be sure but I thought it was when she gave her speech about all the slaves that Dany freed and the other things she's done that have impressed Missendei which supported her statement that Dany is the Queen they chose. 

I just looked up the clip on YouTube and you're right. 

I still find it odd considering Jon is also a king who was chosen, but I know it's a petty gripe about a convo that was episode filler.

[Bcharmer]

7 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

About rescuing Jaime: I'm not sure any swimming will even be necessary. The deep water is literally right next to the shallow water. Just sort of crawl-hurdle onto the higher section of ocean floor, and water will be immediately shallow enough to stand up. Or... maybe Euron will teleport by real fast and fish him out with a magnetic anchor.

I was imagining Jesse Pinkman doing this, and then yelling, "Yeah, bitch! MAGNETS! OH!"

[The Kings Foot]

13 hours ago, Save Yourself said:

 

My main quibble with this episode was when Missandei said that Dany was the Queen they chose - Davos made the quip about changing sides but I assumed he was going to say and Jon is the King the North chose, I can't understand why he didn't make that retort. I thought it was casting unearned shade onto Jon who has been the most selfless character in the entire show, time and again he has voluntarily faced death, has not wavered in his desire to pull together an army to defeat the real enemy, the white walkers, and has not wanted accolades for his courage. Davos knows all this - and that Jon was even killed by his own men for his efforts! - so to dismiss Jon like this (even in a joking manner) didn't feel true to Davos.

I'm blind to the chemistry between Jon and Dany, though I admit I am biased as I dislike Dany with all her entitlement and million titles. I never thought they'd go there since it seems too obvious but looks like I might be wrong given how other posters have interpreted their scenes. 

 

I thought a better response from Davos would have been to ask Jon "Do you wanna switch sides ?" implying that Jon would find it desirable to be serving Dany too.

Or to say "Chosen by her people hmmm ? Remind you of anyone King Jon ? "

 

As for Dany and Jon, Im actually sensing heat from Dany as in she's definately attracted to Jon, but Jon just gives off his usual half absent minded expression. I certainly didn see him staring at her good heart lol.

[Mabinogia]

11 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I still find it odd considering Jon is also a king who was chosen

I think that's the point, to show they have more in common than they think. Jon thinks Dany is only queen because of her name so Missandei needs to tell him she is not. That she is chosen, like he is. Dany knows Jon was chosen, since he's a bastard it wasn't exactly his birthright, so Davos doesn't really need to make that point again, and not when Dany isn't around to hear it anyway. I enjoyed that scene. I like those human moments better than most of the battle scene's. Though I did like this battle, though it could have been cut considerably and still have been powerful.

I like the dragons. I don't want the dragons killed. They are no more monsters than the humans. At least they aren't killing just for fun and don't enjoy making people suffer.

[MrsR]

I don't think Dany is entitled. I think she's immensely practical. And she's not just some ordinary girl, not by a long shot.

 

She has essentially two choices. Die, or go big. As long as she's alive there will be someone, somewhere who wants her dead. Or her King's blood, or her royal status so they can climb the ladder.  She can't really effectively hide. She's simply too famous and critically important in the overall game. So she has to go BIG. She's learned all of this as a child and a young adult. She was sold and used as a pawn for her status. She's had assassination attempts on her simply because of her blood. 

So go for it. Save yourself by taking on the whole world. If there are people so put out about the possibility of her affecting the crown in Westeros, then take the crown and control it. 

[charmed1]

I'm curious about the school for Fancy Lads that Bronn said Dickon's an alum of. I don't recall seeing any of the young characters receiving formal schooling, other than the Citadel I guess. And "Fancy Lad School" immediately made me think of Cabin Boy and all his adventures with the crew of the Filthy Whore.

I noticed upon second watch, that the Davos/Missandei questioning was sort of mutual. It was Missandei who asked why Jon's last name was Snow...to which he rather hilariously replied, "mmm yeah, I'm a bastard...soo."

Edited August 10, 2017 by charmed1

[taanja]

19 hours ago, paigow said:

The clinching point was the Hound forcing Brienne to confess that Jamie Lannister gave her that fancy golden sword - Oathkeeper - before fighting....

Right. Therefore reinforcing Arya's natural mistrust of all strangers.

[paigow]

Why is there no horn / flag icon communication system to direct the Dothraki?

Tyrion: The Queen has crashed behind enemy lines..protect her!

Dothraki: ????

[Gobi]

4 hours ago, paigow said:

Why is there no horn / flag icon communication system to direct the Dothraki?

Tyrion: The Queen has crashed behind enemy lines..protect her!

Dothraki: ????

The Dothraki are portrayed as an undisciplined horde, whose method of attack is to simply charge the enemy, with no real plan. The Mongols, who inspired the Dothraki, were quite different.

[Lemuria]

On 8/7/2017 at 2:51 PM, Daisy said:

this slayed me

LOL!!