S07.E04: The Spoils of War

[Chinspinner]

My thoughts on this episode (just caught up with it on Now TV): -

1) Whether intentionally, or unintentionally (by the writers), Daenerys is turning to the dark side. I hope it is intentional because the seeds of her becoming a tyrant have been there for some time, and they are now starting to flower. 

2) Those cave paintings were convenient. It is not often that I can call out GOT on lazy plot devices, but this was one. 

3) Every scene with Arya was superb, culminating in that brilliant sword fight. The slow realisation (particularly by her sister) that the list of names is not a joke was played very well. 

4) The battle was fantastic, it built tension incredibly (who'll die? Jaime, Bronn or the dragon?) My money was on Bronn, but as a huge Bronn fan, thank God it didn't happen. I am also glad Jaime lived because he is still capable of redemption, and killing a dragon now would have been utter stupidity for the rest of the season(s) to come. So they made the best choice in keeping all three alive. I loved Tyrion's viewpoint from the hilltop and his torn loyalties.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Chinspinner

[Chinspinner]

On 07/08/2017 at 7:51 PM, Daisy said:

this slayed me

This is funny as hell, but for purely artistic purposes, the scene mirrored Bran's fall from the tower. 

[MrsR]

37 minutes ago, Chinspinner said:

2) Those cave paintings were convenient. It is not often that I can call out GOT on lazy plot devices, but this was one. 

Oh come on!! Davos stayed up ALLLL night to paint those!!

[BitterApple]

7 hours ago, MrsR said:

Oh come on!! Davos stayed up ALLLL night to paint those!!

Isn't it amazing how thousands of years had passed yet those drawings weren't faded or eroded at all? 

[Tyro49]

28 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Isn't it amazing how thousands of years had passed yet those drawings weren't faded or eroded at all? 

Well, they were deep inside a cave, not out in the weather.  (Just like our actual cave paintings.)

[scrb]

Plus they use magic Children of the Forest paint.

You know, it has glossy and reflective qualities of 20th century acrylics, despite being used in prehistoric times.

[paigow]

Too bad there were no paintings of creating White Walkers....

[CeeBeeGee]

On 8/10/2017 at 6:56 PM, Gobi said:

The Dothraki are portrayed as an undisciplined horde, whose method of attack is to simply charge the enemy, with no real plan. The Mongols, who inspired the Dothraki, were quite different.

Not that undisciplined--Dany used Drogon tactically, to punch a whole in the Lannister front line, and the Dothraki went through and then enveloped the Lannisters. A kind of inverse double pincers movement.

[enoughcats]

23 hours ago, BitterApple said:

On 8/11/2017 at 9:11 AM, MrsR said:

Oh come on!! Davos stayed up ALLLL night to paint those!!

Isn't it amazing how thousands of years had passed yet those drawings weren't faded or eroded at all? 

The etching were done into Obsidian, which you can't really paint on (anymore than you can paint long term on glass.)  Black obsidian is, however, easily etched with any stone that is harder than silicon dioxide (glass).  Since obsidian is a volcanic glass, pretty much every other extrusive volcanic rock could carve those figures into it.   And there'd be no way to determine when it was done. The white color of the etchings?  pulverized glass ....think glorious white sand beaches made of ground up silicon dioxide. 

[AttackTurtle]

First time poster for GOT, but I've watched this episode a good six times.   It was awesome, but not as awesome as Battle of the Bastards, which IMHO was beyond anything I've seen at the movies.   The moment when Jon Snow stands before Ramsey's Army was epic.

 

The battle scene cone scenes were great; however I loved when Davos was trying to decide how to address Jon Snow as King Snow or King Jon and Jon was like "it doesn't matter".   He really doesn't want to be king of anything....which probably means he'll end up on the Iron Throne.

Edited August 12, 2017 by AttackTurtle

[Katalina]

As for the speculation that Tyrion may betray Dany for Jamie's sake---I think he, and Varys, may betray Dany because she may be a poor, and ego-driven, ruler, a mad Targaryen.

What hints are there that Tyrion is part Targaryen? I've always assumed that Tywin's hostility to Tyrion was due to the fact that his wife died while giving birth to Tyrion.

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I think by the end of it all Littlefinger will try to pit the two sisters against one another and it will look like it has worked but the joke in the end will be on him.

I love this idea.

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I too think Hodor may be among the army of the dead---no one went back to burn the body.

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Oh and P.S. - I forgot how stinking cute direwolf pups were. 

Which is why I never gave a hot damn what happened to Ned---he was going to kill all the direwolves when they were first found, was prevailed on not to, then had a direwolf killed for nipping Joffrey.

Adding, on Saturday, I love this thread. Reading through it throughout the week keeps me nicely in GoT mind until the new ep on Sunday.

[CeeBeeGee]

1 hour ago, Katalina said:

Which is why I never gave a hot damn what happened to Ned---he was going to kill all the direwolves when they were first found, was prevailed on not to, then had a direwolf killed for nipping Joffrey.

Adding, on Saturday, I love this thread. Reading through it throughout the week keeps me nicely in GoT mind until the new ep on Sunday.

What? Ned didn't want to kill Lady. He was forced to. Or rather, he chose to to avoid having her butchered by Ilyn Payne.

[Katalina]

Thanks for reminding of what happened CeeBeeGee---no doubt I simplified it too much!

[Ambrosefolly]

5 hours ago, Katalina said:

Which is why I never gave a hot damn what happened to Ned---he was going to kill all the direwolves when they were first found, was prevailed on not to, then had a direwolf killed for nipping Joffrey.

 

He wanted to give the pups a quick death because the dire wolf mom was dead and they wouldn't last long, and it didn't take much convincing to keep them on as pets.

[justawatcher]

Know what's killing me? I have long game spitballs I want to throw out there so I went over to the speculation thread. Those folks seem to have purposely sook out every spoiler and script leak on the internet. I backed out of there real quick before I saw anything substatial, but dang! where exactly can a non book reader go to toss out some ideas? Not there.

What a shame.

[Meredith Quill]

11 minutes ago, justawatcher said:

Know what's killing me? I have long game spitballs I want to throw out there so I went over to the speculation thread. Those folks seem to have purposely sook out every spoiler and script leak on the internet. I backed out of there real quick before I saw anything substatial, but dang! where exactly can a non book reader go to toss out some ideas? Not there.

What a shame.

Try here or here.

[The Companion]

On 8/6/2017 at 9:00 PM, SimoneS said:

OMG, that was fucking fantastic. Where to begin? I am so glad that I restrained myself and waited to watch the episode in HD.

That has got to be best battle scene on tv evah! Drogon was amazing, the sounds, the CGI. No wonder they have to give Cersei so much plot armor. The gold reached King’s Landing, my ass. Jaime couldn’t kill one person with one hand. Daenerys would defeat her in an hour with her three dragons, the Unsullied, and the Dothraki. The Dothraki were breathtakingly ruthless and brutal. The one thing I don’t understand is why the Dothraki do not have any armor on their horses like the Mongols did. Until that moment, I never considered Tyrion to be pathetic, but damn he really is. “Your people can’t fight!” Ha! I was rooting for the Dotharki warrior to carve up Bronn and Drogon to roast Jaime and Bronn whole. However, I now think that Daenerys needs armor and a saddle also.

 

ALL OF THESE THINGS. The battle sequence was amazing. I love Drogon and this finally delivered on the promise made when baby dragons emerged from the fire. The Dothraki were amazing. I admit, I have a real weakness for the Dothraki, and I loved Khal Drogo (bad acts notwithstanding). Something about the way he called Dany his moon, and the way he seemed so damn proud of her. Why won't the sun rise in the west, just once? Together, they looked unstoppable. I think the psychological effect of that loss may be the real victory for Team Dany. It is going to be hard to convince soldiers to fight against the Dothraki and the dragons. 

On 8/6/2017 at 9:14 PM, Popples said:

I forgot to mention how crazy I went when Bran told Littlefinger that "chaos is a ladder."

Here is an example why I love these boards. We rewound the show three times and could not figure out, for the life of us, what he said. 

On 8/6/2017 at 9:25 PM, NorthstarATL said:

That was some great dragoning! LOVED the episode so much. I thought Bronn might get killed trying to retrieve his gold, which would be a nice poetic offing, especially considering that we got several named deaths the last couple of weeks from Dany's side, and no (that I can recall) named deaths in this week's fracas. I hate the "bend the knee" thing for the very reasons laid out by Missandei. Most everyone who is following or has followed Dany has done so by choice, which is the essence of why she has been a decent ruler and a better alternative to the Lannisters up until now. Even when she's demanded fealty it was almost always from someone who had previously been an enemy and/or tried to assassinate her. This whole thing with Jon Snow is out of character and too Romance novel/RomCom in fabricating obstacles in order to up the UST, and it diminishes what we know of the characters.

I get why people had the "bend the knee" thing, and it honestly seems a little silly given that bending the knee does not appear to always ensure loyalty. I think that Dany is trying to rely on formality because she has been told for a long time that it is important. I see a growing respect between Jon and Dany, so perhaps she will decide to move forward in an equal alliance, especially once she is convinced that the threat to the north is the true threat. I feel a bit for Dany. She is part revolutionary and part old school queen. I think she is trying to find her place in the world.

I did find this comic to be absolutely hilarous:

On 8/6/2017 at 9:29 PM, TigerTimes said:

Yes, it is smashed and burned, but they WILL produce more, especially if it mortally wounds the dragon. I think this could be a blessing for Dany to see that the dragons can be injured, and it is time to take better precautions so that she doesn't lose them.

It drove me nuts that she approached head on. Lining that thing up is really difficult. I can't imagine it would have been possible had she approached from any other angle. The dragon yelp made my poor dog sit up. I don't want to see any more dragon yelping, please.

On 8/6/2017 at 11:40 PM, DrScottie said:

What scene isn't he perving on Sansa when she's there? Dude is creepy and likely to end up on the end of that dagger. 
To be fair, he did have a point about saving them at the Battle of the Bastards. Still a shifty tool, though. 

Man, I desperately want him gone but I am worried he is gonna survive like a cockroach in the apocalypse. I wish someone would call him on his point regarding the Battle of the Bastards. Oh yes, thank you so much for showing up to help squash the family whose power you consolidated after you left Sansa there to be systematically raped and tortured. You are a saint.

On 8/7/2017 at 8:40 AM, Dobian said:

If Jon Snow had one of the dragons, they'd be sitting together on a cliff somewhere brooding.  If Tyrion had one he'd be flying it to pubs and whore houses to impress the women.

I would watch the hell out of Tyrion and his dragon flying from pub to pub. You just know at some point he would have to pee off the side of the dragon.

 

On 8/7/2017 at 5:37 PM, Couver said:

I don't understand why Dany couldn't take Rhaegal and Viserion. They still follow her commands. She used all three to burn the slaver ships. I suppose without riders they may not know where to attack but how amazing would it have been to see all three lay waste to the Lannisters? I'm also worried the other 2 are lacking the combat experience Drogon has. He's also naturally the most aggressive of the 3. Rhaegal and Viserion need some training if they are going to face WW.

 

I agree. Unlike Ramsey Bolton, she doesn't want to take out her own men. She can control Drogon, but it is going to be a lot harder to tell her other dragons where to aim from afar. It would have been fun to have all three, but I don't see a plausible way to have all three know where to attack.

On 8/7/2017 at 9:03 PM, Alapaki said:

I was skeptical that Jaime would be traveling with the rear-guard instead of the gold, given the fact that poaching the gold was one of, if not the primary motives for raiding Highgarden.  

Also, I'd expect the bulk of the Lannister forces to be protecting the gold, which was much more important to Cersei than the food.

I am not sure that he wasn't anticipating a potential attack. He seemed concerned about the Dothraki, but not stunned. Perhaps he was in the rear guard because that was the direction from which a threat was likely. After all, the front of the line had already reached King's Landing. He also appeared to be in the rear to address a specific issue (the slow movement of the troops).

On 8/7/2017 at 9:26 PM, Tyro49 said:

I felt sorry for Tyrion; he really still loves his brother and just wanted him to get away. It's Cercei who's the problem, not Jaime.

 

I go back and forth on Jamie. To be sure, Jamie seems to have more of a conscience than his sister. He also seems to take no pleasure in punishing or hurting others. That being said, in some ways that makes him worse. Cersei is a Joffrey. She has always been cruel and awful and twisted. There is no redeeming her, but she is also who she is. She sees nothing wrong with what she is doing. Jamie knows what he is doing is wrong and he still persists because he loves his crazy sister. I did feel for Tyrion who knows what his brother can be. I don't know that Jamie isn't too far gone at this point, though.

On 8/8/2017 at 1:41 PM, BitterApple said:

I could never understand why the fan base gets so grossed out over the Twincest, but ships the hell out of Jon and Dany. Either way it's a blood relative having sex with a blood relative. 

 

I suspect that the reason people are less squicked out by Jon and Dany is that they weren't raised together. There were some studies that indicated that the thing that makes us so averse to relationships with our siblings is actually the proximity as a child rather than any consanguinity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect While it is obviously just a theory, it may explain why some people are far more grossed out about Jamie and Cersei. It may also be because Cersei sorta feels like she only likes Jamie because she can't hook up with herself. If she could clone herself, the narcissist would look no further.

For me, I am still grossed out by Aunt-Nephew and I really hope the show doesn't go there.

On 8/9/2017 at 7:45 AM, CletusMusashi said:

You know why I'm sure Jon and Danaerys are going to have sex? 

Because it will be yet another way to torture Ser Friendzone.

I figure the dragon will be less injured than we expect. She'll fly back to Dragonstone. Dragonstone, miraculously, will be unconquered, despite her not leaving anybody there except Varys and Missendei, one of whom is busy reading dirty ravens from Grey Worm. D and J will boink, and the next morning Jorah will show up.

Jorah: "Khaleesi! I finally got my rocks off!"

Jon: "Way ahead of you, dude."

Poor Jorah. So kind. So loyal. So friendzoned. 

I am cracking up about the dirty ravens, btw.

Most of what I would have to say has been covered, but I want to reiterate that this episode was really stunning. It feels like we are really ramping up for the end game, but there are still amazing moments and surprises. 

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

I agree. Unlike Ramsey Bolton, she doesn't want to take out her own men. She can control Drogon, but it is going to be a lot harder to tell her other dragons where to aim from afar. It would have been fun to have all three, but I don't see a plausible way to have all three know where to attack.

I go back and forth on Jamie. To be sure, Jamie seems to have more of a conscience than his sister. He also seems to take no pleasure in punishing or hurting others. That being said, in some ways that makes him worse. Cersei is a Joffrey. She has always been cruel and awful and twisted. There is no redeeming her, but she is also who she is. She sees nothing wrong with what she is doing. Jamie knows what he is doing is wrong and he still persists because he loves his crazy sister. I did feel for Tyrion who knows what his brother can be. I don't know that Jamie isn't too far gone at this point, though.

There is Bran the TER/warg, who might just be able to let the dragons know where to attack, if they ever get him into that loop.

I don't know. I think Jamie was too far gone the moment he pushed a little boy out of a window, presumably to his death. Not that I don't kind of like the guy and appreciate that he's not the monster Cercei is, but he's also not a fine human being either. But, imo, there are some things you can't really come back from. Child murder is one of them, for me.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Clanstarling

[The Companion]

44 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

There is Bran the TER/warg, who might just be able to let the dragons know where to attack, if they ever get him into that loop.

I don't know. I think Jamie was too far gone the moment he pushed a little boy out of a window, presumably to his death. Not that I don't kind of like the guy and appreciate that he's not the monster Cercei is, but he's also not a fine human being either. But, imo, there are some things you can't really come back from. Child murder is one of them, for me.

Oh for sure, but he wasn't an option in this battle. 

I don't disagree about Jamie, but I guess my point was that they seemed to want to give him some sort of redemption arc. You could even see a few weeks ago how much it hurt to be told he was a bad person. He clearly wants to act with honor when he is around Brienne. I am never going to classify him as one of the good guys, but I guess by too far gone I mean too far gone to try and do something to stop his sister. I fought giving Theon even the slightest bit of credit for a long time because he seemed to think it was okay that he killed a couple of little boys because their last name wasn't Stark. I do think he has shown remorse and I have somewhat softened my position (though I still think he is terrible). Jamie hasn't even gotten to that point. He doesn't seem to feel remorse for the worst stuff we have seen him do, but they keep hinting that he might at least try to redeem himself if he wasn't so obsessed with his sister. 

[riley702]

9 hours ago, The Companion said:

Dothraki and the dragons. 

Great name for a band.

[Gobi]

8 hours ago, riley702 said:

Great name for a band.

One of those Doth groups that the kids these days are into.

[GraceK]

By far my favorite episode. I'm super Annoyed at the sad music they played while Jaime watched his soldiers burn. Seriously? Your in the middle of sacking and robbing a city for your despot queen and we are supposed to feel bad for you? Jaime has done such horrible things for YEARS and is still supporting his INSANE sister that it was extremely satisfying to see the Lannister army burn. I enjoyed every second they all died and reveled in Jaimes anguish. It was such a triumphant moment for Dany and I had NO pity for them. IMO she should have attackes Kings Landing with all her dragons and killed them all .