S07.E02: Stormborn

[Francie]

3 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

But it's a younger and PRETTIER woman so that leaves off Brienne and Lyanna (who may be nice looking but is not a patch on Cersei). Ditto Arya.

Sansa is possible but I don't see it. She'd be miserable ruling the iron throne.

I like the idea that it's just as obvious as it seems,it just didn't occur to Cersei.

Daenerys for the win.

Ah, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So outward looks wouldn't make this prophecy true, because it would always be a matter of debate.

There's only one younger female character that has been referred to, over and over again, as a beauty. 

[sashabear21]

I really wish Sansa had been the one to go as an emissary to Dragonstone, because while Tyrion's a good adviser to Dany, he still does not know a whole lot about the North and how the people up there operate.  I think Jon will be polite about it, and I think Sansa would be like, "Hey Dany, take a seat, in fact, take a couple of seats".  I don't think she would put up with a whole lot of Dany's whining about what was "stolen" from her.  Dany didn't really have much stolen from her.  If Robert's Rebellion hadn't happened, and her batshit daddy didn't actually go and set King's Landing ablaze, her brother Rhaegar would have been on the throne, his children in the line of succession, she'd be living in a keep somewhere married to her albino Joffrey-lite brother, and that would be her life.  None of this would have been hers for the taking from the get-go, and she probably would have had a real shitty life as a result.  She's very opposite from Sansa, who actually saw her father who was a good man killed in front of her, her family murdered, and was married off to a sadistic madman, and then took back the place she grew up in, her home.  Sansa just wanted her home back, the last place she was when her family was all together and happy, Dany just wants all this because she feels like she should have it.  I'm having a very hard time rooting for Dany at the moment because she's coming off as a spoiled little shit.  And really she rode on a boat across the Narrow Sea with Varys, she couldn't have had that pissing match with him sometime on the boat? Even if it were a flashback it would have made more narrative sense.  

[Clanstarling]

On 7/23/2017 at 7:05 PM, Popples said:

Loved seeing Hot Pie and Nymeria again! Although, now I think he's going to die.

I know what you mean. The minute he said he and Arya were survivors, I thought "uh oh." 

 

On 7/23/2017 at 7:57 PM, BitterApple said:

Yeah, I'm not really getting why she expects to be serenaded and welcomed with open arms when the Targaryens were just as shitty as the Lannisters. 

She's been sold that bill of goods for a very long time, I don't see why she would think differently.

23 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

youd think Nymeria would have at least sniffed her affectionately wouldn't you?

Well, she stopped baring her teeth. If I recall correctly, the last time the two were together, Arya was throwing rocks at her to drive her away. For her own safety, of course, but it wasn't exactly a sweet separation. So I think Nymeria did acknowledge Arya, but was not ready to be buddies again.

22 hours ago, ptuscadero said:

That's kind of what I expected to happen tonight. Theon rescuing his sister, killing his uncle, and likely dying in the attempt. They keep inching toward a redemption story for him, and yet they missed an easy one in this episode.

When do they ever give anyone an easy redemption?

21 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

Sorry, that's not a girl thing. I love fight scenes and battle scenes. My favorite so far was "Hardhome."

I don't tend to care for battle scenes because I have trouble following what's happening. Particularly in this one, since it's at night. 

12 hours ago, RedHawk said:

So does Tyrion know that Sansa is with Jon at Winterfell? If so, not a word to his wife in that note? I mean, I know space is scarce and they need to write kinda like it's an old-time telegram, but wouldn't a brief "My love [or maybe draw a little heart?] to Sansa" have been nice? That Ramsay thing wasn't real, Tyrion, and she dumped him hard and took everything in the divorce, so you have another chance.

Tyrion didn't know Jon was at Winterfell until he was told. I doubt anyone thought to mention Sansa, and wonder if anyone in the south actually knows she's there. Jon's the one they see as a threat or potential ally.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Clanstarling

[tennisgurl]

Personally, I don't see Theon jumping ship (literally) as merely cowardly, I think there was some tactics there as well. He had to know that he was screwed, and that running up on Euron would just end in his death, so by escaping, he can regroup and come back to have a Big Damn Heroes moment. At least, that's what I REALLY hope this is leading towards. The poor guy needs to have one big moments in the sun, then to die and end his misery.

So many characters interacting, so many call backs to the past! My sister and I had to keep pausing to remind ourselves what happened in the past that they're talking about! We got call backs to Jon and Tyrion hanging out on the Wall, Sam being there for Lord Mormonts death, the deaths of Neds father and brother, and the returns of Hot Pie and Nymerya! I certainly didn't expect either of them to pop up! Seeing Hot Pie was super adorable (Your pretty!) and Nymeria game me all kinds of feels.

Missandei and Grey Worm make it finally work! I hope this means he isn't doomed. They're super cute together.

I LOVED Varys dropping truth bombs all over Dany abut her crazy father and what an asshole he was. His excuses for serving and betraying pretty much every king he's served didn't totally line up (screwing with Roberts rule when his only Targ option was Visyeries was a pretty bad call) but I do believe that he wants what's best for the people, and he will work for Dany as long as she's a good leader. That being said, Dany could use a big slice of humble pie. I like Dany, and I think she could be a good ruler, but she's still pulling her "his queen has summoned him and he WILL bend the knee" bullshit. Slow your rolls there, Miss Mother of Dragon's.

I could watch Jon push Littlefinger around all day long.

[sashabear21]

22 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I could watch Jon push Littlefinger around all day long.

The only ship I have for this series is Littlefinger and his head busted up against a brick wall. I totally ship it! 

[BitterApple]

1 minute ago, sashabear21 said:

The only ship I have for this series is Littlefinger and his head busted up against a brick wall. I totally ship it! 

Me too.

Brienne x Tormund? Getting annoying

Jon x Dany? Blech, makes me want to puke

Brienne x Jaime? Would be nice, but not gonna happen

Littlefinger x the most miserable, painful death in the history of the show? Yes, please.

[sashabear21]

Brienne x Tormund is getting a little too much fan service and the actors clearly are having a hell of a good time with it, but it really makes no sense at all. Jon x Dany makes me want to puke as well.  I really don't want it to go there,  I have a horrible suspicion that it will.  I'm not into it at all.  Brienne x Jaime, I don't think Jaime's going to make it.  He might actually go out protecting Brienne from Cersei, but I don't see them ever together romantically.  Littlefinger x some sort of horrible death! Hoping for it and totally here for it! 

[LittleIggy]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

 

Littlefinger x the most miserable, painful death in the history of the show? Yes, please.

Seriously? I don't get the extreme hate for Lord Baelish. He's a player not a sociopath. 

[CletusMusashi]

14 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

Cersai's twisted Meister is so damn creepy. I'm scared for Dany's dragons, and wonder what would happen if the night king got hold of a dead dragon?! He has plenty of horses and now giants in his army- can't even imagine how awful a reanimated dead dragon would be! 

My guess is that they can only really turn people. I know, we've seen zombie horses. But if those are the only four-legged wights, and do not seem to be overwhelmly common or useful, then I am inclined to write them off as collateral. Maybe, sometimes, if a human on a horse is mobbed by wights, and both man and horse die at close range, in close contact, then the zombie mojo leaks over into the horse a bit. But they can't just randomly turn, say, a herd of mammoths. Which is why the wall is still standing.

[BitterApple]

Littlefinger betrayed Ned, conspired to murder Joffrey, let Sansa take the rap for murdering Joffrey, gave Roz to Joffrey to be tortured and murdered, conspired to murder Jon Arryn, murdered Lysa Arryn and sold Sansa off to Ramsay. He's got some of the dirtiest hands in Westeros, even if he's not usually the one wielding the knife. 

[CletusMusashi]

On 7/23/2017 at 11:23 PM, Stardancer Supreme said:

I think that the fact that Nymeria didn't allow her pack to feast on Arya and her horse was recognition enough.

I think they were already full of that plump British pop singer they'd eaten half an hour ago.

[Jamoche]

1 hour ago, sashabear21 said:

The only ship I have for this series is Littlefinger and his head busted up against a brick wall. I totally ship it! 

This show really needs a scene like Babylon 5's Vir getting his wish to make a little wave at Morden's head on a pike :)

[ImpinAintEasy]

I'm fine with Jon and Dany. It makes for the most obvious political match. I think there is a resistance to having the two main characters get together because maybe It would be too cliche or obvious. Or people may simply not like one of the two(usually Dany). I guess I just don't see what the problem is. But I'm also not one of those people who believes GRRM set out to simply bust every trope known to fantasy and avoid things just because they were too obvious. He's more likely to do the obvious(Jon/Dany pairing) and have it end tragically. 

[ImpinAintEasy]

2 hours ago, bethster2000 said:

Absolutely right and beautifully put.  Sending Sansa with Brienne and Pod makes so much more sense.

 

None of them seem to give a damn about the white walkers or take them seriously. Sansa is focused on Cersei. Jon's sole reason for going to Dragonstone is to convince Dany of the threat of the white walkers so that she would allow him to mine the dragonglass for weapons and provide support via her fire breathing dragons. So given that, how the hell would those three be better to go meet with Dany? Jon is in the right, he just has the thankless task of convincing people that the white walkers are real and a far greater threat than anything else, and that's putting it mildly. I don't know how any viewer could continue to fault Jon in his single minded focus on the Night King and his army of dead. We know he is fucking right! We've seen it with our own eyes. So why is he so wrong to go to meet with Dany himself? And specifically, why would Sansa of all people be a better choice to go and win her support? Just because she was married to Tyrion, a man who doesn't believe in "grumpkins and snarks"? How much of a threat could the army of dead really be if the man who is king and has fought them isn't willing to show up in person to ask for aid?

 

So yeah, I disagree with you.

Edited July 25, 2017 by ImpinAintEasy

[CrinkleCutCat]

4 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Littlefinger betrayed Ned, conspired to murder Joffrey, let Sansa take the rap for murdering Joffrey, gave Roz to Joffrey to be tortured and murdered, conspired to murder Jon Arryn, murdered Lysa Arryn and sold Sansa off to Ramsay. He's got some of the dirtiest hands in Westeros, even if he's not usually the one wielding the knife. 

....and yet he is one of my favourite characters! Maybe your list is WHY I like this character.... 

[penelope79]

12 hours ago, Amarsir said:

On that note, what logic was behind that Tarly scene?

You're a Tyrell bannerman - an important and loyal one. Cersei just assassinated 3 Tyrells and a bunch of other people. The head of the Tyrells declares war and everyone knows you're a huge asset. Cersei invites you to come to King's Landing and be surrounded by Lannisters. And you say "OK, but let me bring along my next of kin."???

And then the conversation ends with you saying you're still probably going to fight them, and Cersei & Jaime's reaction is "OK have a good trip, see you at the war."?

Besides, if it's a known fact that Cersei killed all Tyrells heirs, whenever Cersei keeps mentioning Lady Olenna Tyrell calling her a "traitor", how come nobody stopped her and said:"So, SHE is the traitor, now? You killed her son, her grandson and her granddaughter... and SHE is the traitor?"

 

6 hours ago, ImpinAintEasy said:

I'm fine with Jon and Dany. It makes for the most obvious political match. I think there is a resistance to having the two main characters get together because maybe It would be too cliche or obvious. Or people may simply not like one of the two(usually Dany). I guess I just don't see what the problem is. But I'm also not one of those people who believes GRRM set out to simply bust every trope known to fantasy and avoid things just because they were too obvious. He's more likely to do the obvious(Jon/Dany pairing) and have it end tragically. 

I am afraid, too, that it will not be a "happily ever after". It's GRRM we're talking about, after all.

Anyway,  I am all for Jon and Daenerys getting together! For several reasons, both shallow (much like in Grey Worm and Missandei's case, they're both so beautiful and it already looks like they have lots of chemistry) and serious (their paths always mirrored each other, politically it would make so much sense etc). And personally I don't think it would be too cliché, not the way the story developed. From S1 up to S5, with Jon dead and Daenerys in Mereen, there were almost 0 chances they could run into each other. But then Jon came back to life and became KITN, and Daenerys finally sailed to Westeros. They've both been through a lot, so much so that their meeting it was all but granted. Maybe it's just me, but Jon and Daenerys eventually in the same room, face to face, it's a reward now, not a cliché. Finally, as for the incest, I think it's funny that there are/were so many people ready to see Jon with Sansa (a girl he grew up with and that he believes to be his sister) but want to puke at the idea of Jon and Daenerys, who never met before and don't even know they're related. :)

By the way, I think the fact that they're going to great lengths to prevent Jon from learning about his true parentage BEFORE his meeting with Daenerys (Bran has yet to reach Winterfell), it proves once more that they will get together somehow, will develop feelings for one another and then will find out they're related. All of this while fighting against the WW and Cersei. What is going to happen next, nodoby knows.

Edited July 25, 2017 by penelope79

[kieyra]

6 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Seriously? I don't get the extreme hate for Lord Baelish. He's a player not a sociopath. 

The show has been writing him (and not very subtly) as a loathesome weasel for a few seasons now. At this point he's just cartoonishly oozing around Winterfell and leering at Sansa and getting knocked back for his completely obvious manipulation attempts. So I assume he's going to pull off one last betrayal and then die for it. In the meantime the writers are ham-fistedly reminding us he's a scheming perv.

[Daisy]

9 hours ago, sashabear21 said:

I really wish Sansa had been the one to go as an emissary to Dragonstone, because while Tyrion's a good adviser to Dany, he still does not know a whole lot about the North and how the people up there operate.  I think Jon will be polite about it, and I think Sansa would be like, "Hey Dany, take a seat, in fact, take a couple of seats".  I don't think she would put up with a whole lot of Dany's whining about what was "stolen" from her.  Dany didn't really have much stolen from her.  If Robert's Rebellion hadn't happened, and her batshit daddy didn't actually go and set King's Landing ablaze, her brother Rhaegar would have been on the throne, his children in the line of succession, she'd be living in a keep somewhere married to her albino Joffrey-lite brother, and that would be her life.  None of this would have been hers for the taking from the get-go, and she probably would have had a real shitty life as a result.  She's very opposite from Sansa, who actually saw her father who was a good man killed in front of her, her family murdered, and was married off to a sadistic madman, and then took back the place she grew up in, her home.  Sansa just wanted her home back, the last place she was when her family was all together and happy, Dany just wants all this because she feels like she should have it.  I'm having a very hard time rooting for Dany at the moment because she's coming off as a spoiled little shit.  And really she rode on a boat across the Narrow Sea with Varys, she couldn't have had that pissing match with him sometime on the boat? Even if it were a flashback it would have made more narrative sense.  

 

9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Personally, I don't see Theon jumping ship (literally) as merely cowardly, I think there was some tactics there as well. He had to know that he was screwed, and that running up on Euron would just end in his death, so by escaping, he can regroup and come back to have a Big Damn Heroes moment. At least, that's what I REALLY hope this is leading towards. The poor guy needs to have one big moments in the sun, then to die and end his misery.

So many characters interacting, so many call backs to the past! My sister and I had to keep pausing to remind ourselves what happened in the past that they're talking about! We got call backs to Jon and Tyrion hanging out on the Wall, Sam being there for Lord Mormonts death, the deaths of Neds father and brother, and the returns of Hot Pie and Nymerya! I certainly didn't expect either of them to pop up! Seeing Hot Pie was super adorable (Your pretty!) and Nymeria game me all kinds of feels.

Missandei and Grey Worm make it finally work! I hope this means he isn't doomed. They're super cute together.

I LOVED Varys dropping truth bombs all over Dany abut her crazy father and what an asshole he was. His excuses for serving and betraying pretty much every king he's served didn't totally line up (screwing with Roberts rule when his only Targ option was Visyeries was a pretty bad call) but I do believe that he wants what's best for the people, and he will work for Dany as long as she's a good leader. That being said, Dany could use a big slice of humble pie. I like Dany, and I think she could be a good ruler, but she's still pulling her "his queen has summoned him and he WILL bend the knee" bullshit. Slow your rolls there, Miss Mother of Dragon's.

I could watch Jon push Littlefinger around all day long.

 

I am curious, truly why no one has really slapped that truth bomb on her. Nothing was stolen from her.  The Targaryans were usurped. I think if I remember my lore (which HAH i doubt it), wasn't it the Targs that basically took over King's Landing and created the 'seven kingdoms'? Jamie said it best when Cersei spit it out - she doesn't have seven kingdoms, she has at best three. The North obviously wants to be ruled by Northerners. Olenna gives zero fucks about anyone/anything, Dorne (if Elaria dies) has no one, the Freys were massacred, the Iron Born (for the most part) want to be left alone to rape and pillage... (all because Jamie and Cersei couldn't wait and had to get it on at Winterfell and push Bran out the window. good job you two). 

But anyway. so if Dany wins... and seven kingdoms go, you know what, Dany, we good. We don't want to be ruled as one lump let us do our own thing - is that good enough for Dany? I don't really get the feeling that it is. she wants what she feels her family has lost, but I think that's never going to come back. And It's interesting that no one is bringing that fact up.
 

[Clanstarling]

8 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Seriously? I don't get the extreme hate for Lord Baelish. He's a player not a sociopath. 

Eh, I think he's both. The player part is fun, but his perverse obsession with Sansa and her mother, not so much.

8 hours ago, Jamoche said:

This show really needs a scene like Babylon 5's Vir getting his wish to make a little wave at Morden's head on a pike :)

One of my favorite scenes. It was so satisfying. 

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

I am curious, truly why no one has really slapped that truth bomb on her. Nothing was stolen from her.  The Targaryans were usurped. I think if I remember my lore (which HAH i doubt it), wasn't it the Targs that basically took over King's Landing and created the 'seven kingdoms'? Jamie said it best when Cersei spit it out - she doesn't have seven kingdoms, she has at best three. The North obviously wants to be ruled by Northerners. Olenna gives zero fucks about anyone/anything, Dorne (if Elaria dies) has no one, the Freys were massacred, the Iron Born (for the most part) want to be left alone to rape and pillage... (all because Jamie and Cersei couldn't wait and had to get it on at Winterfell and push Bran out the window. good job you two). 

But anyway. so if Dany wins... and seven kingdoms go, you know what, Dany, we good. We don't want to be ruled as one lump let us do our own thing - is that good enough for Dany? I don't really get the feeling that it is. she wants what she feels her family has lost, but I think that's never going to come back. And It's interesting that no one is bringing that fact up.
 

Technically, usurped essentially means stolen. So technically, she's not wrong.  But the Game of Thrones (in history as well as in fiction) is all about people thinking they are the only rightful rulers, as well as the offspring of ousted leaders working to regain their "rightful" kingdoms. So she's not alone in her belief (well, most of her fellow would-be monarchs are dead, but other than that...)

Quote

a :  to seize and hold (office, place, functions, powers, etc.) in possession by force or without right usurp a throne

Edited July 25, 2017 by Clanstarling

[Fretful]

I think that Sam used rum because he would have had to ask someone for Milk of the Puppy, but there's always plenty of drink around.

[shockermolar]

Quote

Littlefinger betrayed Ned, conspired to murder Joffrey, let Sansa take the rap for murdering Joffrey, gave Roz to Joffrey to be tortured and murdered, conspired to murder Jon Arryn, murdered Lysa Arryn and sold Sansa off to Ramsay. He's got some of the dirtiest hands in Westeros, even if he's not usually the one wielding the knife. 

Quote

....and yet he is one of my favourite characters! Maybe your list is WHY I like this character.... 

 

I actually think the most disturbing aspect about LF is that he did ALL OF THOSE THINGS because of a freakish life-long obsession with Catelyn Stark. And to me, the worst of it was his manipulation of Lysa Arryn from when she was basically a child, which is is actually what caused all of this if you think about it. Because he basically whispered all the crazy into her ear, she poisoned John Arryn, which is why Robert went to Winterfell to command Ned to be his Hand, which is why Cersei and Jamie were sexing it up in the abandoned tower when Bran found them, which led to him being pushed out the window. And LF's manipulation is why Lysa sent the Raven to Catelyn telling her that "someone" had poisoned John Arryn, which is why Ned agreed to go to Kings Landing with Robert. And BOOM! here we are.

[Macbeth]

12 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

 

I don't tend to care for battle scenes because I have trouble following what's happening. Particularly in this one, since it's at night. 

This is the first GOT battle I had a hard time following.  I think it was actually sped up a little to add to the sense that yara's forces were completely overwhelmed. It made it feel more like a cartoon - which doesn't help given Euron is one big cartoon. 

[BitterApple]

8 hours ago, CrinkleCutCat said:

....and yet he is one of my favourite characters! Maybe your list is WHY I like this character.... 

Like Cersei, he's definitely one of those characters you love to hate. Every time people count them out, they prove smarter than everyone thought. I'm curious to see if he does in fact get in Sansa's ear and convince her to do something stupid while Jon's away.

Regarding Jon/Dany, I don't ship them not so much because of the cliche factor but because I've liked her character less and less with each passing season. I don't want him turning into a lapdog for her the way Jaime has for Cersei. I do agree it's inevitable though. There's really no one else of age for him to hook up with. Lyanna is too young, and there's too much of a squick factor if he got with Arya or Sansa. So Dany it is!

Edited July 25, 2017 by BitterApple

[Couver]

14 hours ago, nachomama said:

Can the night king add to his army south of the wall? And/or do they begin to deteriorate in the southern weather? I know it's "winter" but still warmer than sub-zero. He better not get a dragon white Walker! 

I think he absolutely can. Based on what we have seen on the show the WW seem to have some type of weather/cold manipulation. I assume if/when they breach the wall they'll bring the snow and cold with them. That's what makes them so scary. Their numbers are already huge but every time they engage with any of the Westeros forces they'll have the chance to add even more to their army.

And agreed no dragon WW please.

[enoughcats]

12 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I could watch Jon push Littlefinger around all day long.

Jon gets a lot of gravitas from the size of his cloak.  I know Sansa just made if for him, but I have the overwhelming urge to flea treat it (It's summer and flea treating large furry animals happens here in summer).  Will he take it off to meet Danny, or will he pass out from being so hot when all about her are not wearing  a lot of clothes.

32 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

like a cartoon - which doesn't help given Euron is one big cartoon. 

Euron....cartoon...Popeye movie....Bluto....size and attitude.

[Philbert]

11 hours ago, Jamoche said:

This show really needs a scene like Babylon 5's Vir getting his wish to make a little wave at Morden's head on a pike :)

 

Although Sansa walking away from Ramsey as he got eaten by his own dogs with a big ole smirk on her face was pretty damned close :)

[BitterApple]

4 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Jon gets a lot of gravitas from the size of his cloak.  I know Sansa just made if for him, but I have the overwhelming urge to flea treat it (It's summer and flea treating large furry animals happens here in summer).  Will he take it off to meet Danny, or will he pass out from being so hot when all about her are not wearing  a lot of clothes.

 

I think they do that to bulk him up. In real life he's short and slight of build. Sansa towers over him in their scenes, and if I recall, she's around 5'9" or so. 

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note:

A reminder to please keep discussion in here confined to the episode; character arcs/motivations etc belong elsewhere, as does speculation on what may/may not happen in the future.

Thank you.

[Kellyim10]

On 7/23/2017 at 11:33 PM, LisaBLingLing said:

The Hound is wandering around the North with the Brothers Without Banners, isn't he?  What are the chances he and Arya cross paths again?

I can't help but want them to have a respectful, slightly affectionate meeting.

[paigow]

2 minutes ago, Kellyim10 said:

I can't help but want them to have a respectful, slightly affectionate meeting.

Hound: I asked you to kill me...you refused...now I will kill you, then have some chicken...

[Keepitmoving]

You know what I can't buy? How long it's taking for someone at The Wall to send a raven to Winterfell to tell Jon that his brother is alive. Winterfell is getting ravens left and right, yet not one telling them that Bran is alive?

I also don't see why the North has to bend the knee to any ruler, they should be able to exist on their own. Isn't that territory larger than all of Westeros and maybe a couple of other houses combined?

I can't see Jon with Danny, don't see it. I guess because his first love turned out to be a rough around the edges kind of gal, physically tough and not prissy looking, so now that's the type of woman I see him with. But, Danny's desire to be better than her father, to not abuse those who are less fortunate, to not enslave people does give her some depth, when she's not whining about her birth right. So maybe he'll be attracted to that side of her. 

[paigow]

1 hour ago, enoughcats said:

but I have the overwhelming urge to flea treat it

Davos: Samwell! King Snow is ill!

Sam: Looks like GreenLyme...

[taanja]

21 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

You know, given that, why didnt Viserys marry Daenerys? I mean ew but I do wonder.

Incest when they've never met is less horrible. Similarly, it would feel like incest had any of the Stark girls gotten with Theon because they grew up with him.

 

So where did Euron get the flax for the sails?

Same place Arya got the poison.

And I can't be the only one noticing that making a meat pie is damn hard. Maybe she put on the face of the head cook, but I really do wonder how she prepared the sons' bodies with nobody noticing. It made a nice image onscreen, shades of Greek tragedy and all, but on reflection isn't very probable.

 

I can buy killing them.

Turning them into meat cuts that get put into a pie is just harder to believe. Somebody help me out with a scenario?

 

NOBODY BETTER HURT NYMERIA.

 

DRAGONS BETTER NOT GET HURT.

 

That is all.

In a show with Direwolves and dragons and night walkers and priests raising the dead---I am thinking such things as acquiring poison and flax to make sails is really no big deal. And making meat pies with dead bodies? Dude! All Arya forgot was to brown the butter before making the crust!

[paigow]

21 minutes ago, taanja said:

And making meat pies with dead bodies? Dude! All Arya forgot was to brown the butter before making the crust!

HotPie: A man was here yesterday...liked my crust so much, he carved a star into the table...

Arya: Was he a knight?

HotPie: No...Lord Macheline 

[scrb]

Speaking of battle scenes, I always suspect that it's a movie/TV trope that generals and kings are right in the middle of these medieval battles if not leading the charge.

I can buy that kings and generals are the best warriors in sword combat and so on but in a melee with dozens of individual combats to the death, why would a king or a general want to be in the middle of that?

He may absolutely be able to dominate any single foe but he's still vulnerable and could be stabbed from the side or the back.  In fact, if a particular leader is too valuable, the opponents could charge groups of fighters just to take him out.

In the Battle of the Bastards, Jon got lured into trying to save Rickon and was way out in front.  Lucky he wasn't killed in the hail of arrows or got trampled by the charging mounted fighters that Ramsay deployed.  Ramsay just stayed back.

In this episode, Euron was the first to come across the gang plank and was right in the middle of the battle.  It's more cinematic to have a major character -- all kings and generals would be major characters -- looking like a superhero, slaying dozens of opponents by himself.

But in history, generals didn't risk their lives.  That's certainly the case today, they just send fodder into the battles.

[FnkyChkn34]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I think they do that to bulk him up. In real life he's short and slight of build. Sansa towers over him in their scenes, and if I recall, she's around 5'9" or so. 

He's 5'8", and quite muscular.  Not sure I'd call him either "short" or "slight of build."  He's average height, and weight.

I think they give him that cloak because it's cold, it's the north, and winter is here.  He looked good when he was inside in just his leather armor.  I bet that is what he'll wear when he meets Dany.

Edited July 25, 2017 by FnkyChkn34

[taanja]

13 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Littlefinger betrayed Ned, conspired to murder Joffrey, let Sansa take the rap for murdering Joffrey, gave Roz to Joffrey to be tortured and murdered, conspired to murder Jon Arryn, murdered Lysa Arryn and sold Sansa off to Ramsay. He's got some of the dirtiest hands in Westeros, even if he's not usually the one wielding the knife. 

What are you trying to do? get me hot? Reading this list is why I love me some littlefinger!

[Lady S.]

9 minutes ago, scrb said:

But in history, generals didn't risk their lives.  

Sure, they did. Not always, but plenty of kings were injured, sometimes fatally, in battle, from Alexander the Great to Richard III. They usually had elite guards and sometimes were more likely to taken alive for ransom than killed, but sometimes risks were taken. (Jon's mistake was charging in on his own when he'd planned on letting the Bolton men charge first, but he never would have had the freedom to sit at the back of his army the way Ramsay did. An outnumbered army of doubtful loyalty risking everything for an untried general would be the kind of circumstances calling for the example/morale boost of personal leadership.) And Euron is a crazy fantasy viking, of course he'd want to go berserker in the thick of it.

[akrinord]

9 hours ago, penelope79 said:

Anyway,  I am all for Jon and Daenerys getting together! For several reasons, both shallow (much like in Grey Worm and Missandei's case, they're both so beautiful and it already looks like they have lots of chemistry) and serious (their paths always mirrored each other, politically it would make so much sense etc). And personally I don't think it would be too cliché, not the way the story developed. 

But how would Jon/Dany make sense politically? I get it would make sense from her perspective - through marriage she would secure the North as part of her kingdom - but from his? It's not like Dany will just let Jon stay king in an independent North, she will demand that he bends the knee and recognises her as his queen. The North would have to give up its independence and Jon move to King's Landing to be the queen's consort. Which the North would just lie down and take....? Not very likely. Jon/Dany would soon have a rebellion on their hands. Not to mention: does anyone really see Jon living the rest of his life in KL? He's essentially Ned Stark 2.0.

It would be a much smarter move for Jon to either marry a daughter of one of the most influential northern houses - like one of Manderly's daughters for instance - to secure his position as KITN, or a daughter from a house of some other powerful region the North wants to form an alliance with. But as a king who wants to secure a) your/your family's position and b) your countries independence you just don't marry another regent. Then something has to give.

[SoothingDave]

21 hours ago, Pogojoco said:

Dragonstone is just North East of King's Landing. Dorne is South. You have to pass the outer water of Blackwater Bay to get to Dorne.

You do also have to pass Dragonstone to get out of King's Landing to the Narrow Sea. I still maintain sending ships past there wasn't the best idea when they know Euron is hanging out with Cersei. 

 

I get what you're saying but unless they had ships out at the mouth of the bay, they're not going to know anyone passed by.  

[DrSpaceman73]

4 hours ago, shockermolar said:

I actually think the most disturbing aspect about LF is that he did ALL OF THOSE THINGS because of a freakish life-long obsession with Catelyn Stark. And to me, the worst of it was his manipulation of Lysa Arryn from when she was basically a child, which is is actually what caused all of this if you think about it. Because he basically whispered all the crazy into her ear, she poisoned John Arryn, which is why Robert went to Winterfell to command Ned to be his Hand, which is why Cersei and Jamie were sexing it up in the abandoned tower when Bran found them, which led to him being pushed out the window. And LF's manipulation is why Lysa sent the Raven to Catelyn telling her that "someone" had poisoned John Arryn, which is why Ned agreed to go to Kings Landing with Robert. And BOOM! here we are.

It seems to be a lifelong obsession not just with Catelyn Stark with all the Stark/Tully women.  Except Arya.

Which is odd and never really explained, as far as I can tell.  Maybe its more in the books, but why the Littlefinger obsession with her and that family of females?  They are not unattractive, but also not the most attractive in the 7 kingdoms.  There doesn't seem to be, as far as I have picked up, anything they have done for him that would make him loyal to the family for any reason.  And he is loyal to no one. 

[garyvp]

On 7/23/2017 at 10:01 PM, SimoneS said:

Another great episode! How the hell did Euron’s fleet get so close to Yara’s fleet without them seeing it. Was the watch asleep? Contrived as hell, but damn the attack and fight was well done. Theon is so freaking weak, abandoning Yara like that.

 

Battle ground goofs - Wondered about that as well.  Not unlike Rickon not running  a Serpentine pattern from Bastard Bolton. Like, if I had the dragons I would only use them to attack the fleet where it would be difficult to fire that crossbow them. Stay away from the castles. Right.

It is not that Theon is weak; he is, but he is smart enough to know and accept that fact. More to the point, he knew that he really could not save Yara, so what is the point of giving Euron the pleasure of killing them both? This way he has a chance for revenge, and then he will die exacting it. Nor does he really care about what people think of him, it is what he thinks of him.

Ever since the very first episodes when Arya and Nymeria parted company, you knew there would be this reunion - what a beautiful scene. No, Nymeria can't come with her. But you know that Nymeria (and her pack)will follow Arya from a distance and protect Arya when it matters.

Ellaria Sand will poison someone we don't like.

[CletusMusashi]

17 hours ago, sashabear21 said:

The only ship I have for this series is Littlefinger and his head busted up against a brick wall. I totally ship it! 

I'm still holding out for him to get violently buggered by Shagga, son of Dolf. But those hill guys seem to have been completely forgotten.

[paigow]

49 minutes ago, garyvp said:

Battle ground goofs - Wondered about that as well.  Not unlike Rickon not running  a Serpentine pattern from Bastard Bolton.

Rickon -despite having grown taller than Ramsey- was a boy ...Yara and crew have seen a lot of combat and have no excuses...

2 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

But those hill guys seem to have been completely forgotten.

Maybe they are roadies for Edd Shireen...

[CletusMusashi]

About Dany's conversation with Varys: 

It was long overdue, so overall I was glad to see it. I understand why it didn't happen the second they met: when he first came to town she was elsewhere, and after that she was busy, but I agree that at this point it was kind of "um... why now?" The best hypothesis I can offer is that he was really, really annoying on the entire boat trip over. Trying to outsnark Lady Olenna for that long probably put his superbitch powers into hyperdrive.  Dany isn't used to boats, so she's just trying to keep the barf down while standing there quietly and regally in her George Washingron pose, and the entire time Varys is making one smug, sarcastic quip after another, and by the time they finally get off the boat he's on her last nerve, so after she gets her bearings back she finally just vents!

I do kind of love the zany mismatched group that she's accumulated as her posse. It's like "300," except shown from the point of view of the Persians. (If the random giant frankenmonster guy was with the Greeks.)

Edited July 26, 2017 by CletusMusashi

[Stardancer Supreme]

23 hours ago, scrb said:

I think the Sand Snakes' strength is their quickness and the use of attacks from distance because they're not going to be as strong as men.

On the ship, the battles are in close quarters so they can't come in for quick strikes and tumble away to evade retaliation.

So that would explain why they were relatively easily taken out by Euron.

 

Or maybe Benioff and Weiss, along with Martin, no longer had any ideas for Dorne or at least the Sand women.

Being Desert fighters, they would have been out of their element on the water.  While I did expect the Sand Snakes to go down, at least they didn't go down easily. 

[justawatcher]

17 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Littlefinger betrayed Ned, conspired to murder Joffrey, let Sansa take the rap for murdering Joffrey, gave Roz to Joffrey to be tortured and murdered, conspired to murder Jon Arryn, murdered Lysa Arryn and sold Sansa off to Ramsay. He's got some of the dirtiest hands in Westeros, even if he's not usually the one wielding the knife. 

which are some of the exact reasons I think he's going to be the one sitting on the throne when it is all done. C'mon- the man created his own sigil!

[Pogojoco]

3 hours ago, SoothingDave said:

 

I get what you're saying but unless they had ships out at the mouth of the bay, they're not going to know anyone passed by.  

I also get what you're saying....but Euron knows Yara's fleet is with Danaerys and Danaerys is at Dragonstone and that she's allies with Dorne. Where else would he hang out than at the mouth of Blackwater Bay, watching for Yara's ships? 

 

If I were Tyrion, I'd send Elaria to pick up the Dornish army another way and have them meet Yara's fleet, which stays at Dragonstone- meet by land from the Southwest or however by sea/land Dorne usually comes north and surround King's Landing. 

 

Or try to call out Euron's fleet from Blackwater by attacking something (Stormlands? Maidenpool? Something?)

 

In any case,  Tyrion being wrong or right, someone should've kept watch. Unless Tyrion wanted Elaria captured- he did seem not a huge fan for what she did to Myrcella. It's treason and all that, but it would distract Cersei and make her think she's won something. Just a thought. 

[meep.meep]

Since Tyrion sent Myrcella to Dorne over the objection of her mother, it wouldn't be strange if he felt responsible for her death.

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, Couver said:

I think he absolutely can. Based on what we have seen on the show the WW seem to have some type of weather/cold manipulation. I assume if/when they breach the wall they'll bring the snow and cold with them. That's what makes them so scary. Their numbers are already huge but every time they engage with any of the Westeros forces they'll have the chance to add even more to their army.

Which is why the Stark motto is "Winter is Coming", they just didn't add "And the Night King (?) is bringing it with him."

3 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

It seems to be a lifelong obsession not just with Catelyn Stark with all the Stark/Tully women.  Except Arya.

Which is odd and never really explained, as far as I can tell.  Maybe its more in the books, but why the Littlefinger obsession with her and that family of females?  They are not unattractive, but also not the most attractive in the 7 kingdoms.  There doesn't seem to be, as far as I have picked up, anything they have done for him that would make him loyal to the family for any reason.  And he is loyal to no one. 

To be fair (to Arya), he hasn't seen her since she's grown up. Maybe he'd like his own skilled assassin.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Clanstarling