S07.E02: Stormborn

[sashabear21]

13 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

Also, I don't think John will be bending a knee, I can't see it.

 

I hope when she asks Jon to bend the knee that Jon tells her to go fuck herself.  I know that won't happen, as he needs her dragons and army to defeat the White Walkers, but that's what happens in the Game of Thrones that plays in my head.  

[deedee]

I'm not sure why Dany is listening to Tyrion-didn't he compromise with the masters the last time he was in charge, and if Dany hadn't returned with her dragons when she did, he and Greyworm and Missy would have been screwed? If I have Dame Diana Rigg telling me to be a dragon, I'm going to listen to her!

[paigow]

2 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

The Sand Snakes are supposed to have crazy fighting skills yet Euron took out two of them fairly easily. I think Dany is in for a much tougher fight than she imagined.

Bronn could have killed them in Dorne...Ramsey scared off a bunch of Iron Born...so Iron Born beating Sand Snakes is NOT like Ali vs. Frazier....

4 minutes ago, sashabear21 said:

I hope when she asks Jon to bend the knee that Jon tells her to go fuck herself... but that's what happens in the Game of Thrones that plays in my head.....  

Then he dies....

[SoothingDave]

19 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Do we know if Sam really even wants to be a maester?  He's doing it because he was ordered to by Jon, but Jon is no longer the Commander of the Night's Watch.  Maybe Sam will just be the rebellious student, learning all he can as fast as he can, and then get the hell out.  He's got Gilly and a kid, and Jon is King of the North.  He can just go meet up with Jon and never become a maester; it's not like Jon will punish him for abandoning the Wall and breaking his oath.

Being a maester is the only path to respect a guy like Sam can find.  He loves reading and absorbing knowledge.  

[RedHawk]

9 minutes ago, Absurda said:

I really hope they are more creative than hooking Jon and Danaerys up romantically. It's just so boring.

Not to mention incesty since (if the hints are correct) he's her nephew. Incest is okay for Lannisters but I hope Targaryns have better taste.

But the Targaryens are all about incest! They married their siblings, hence the crazy gene. And the white hair.

[Absurda]

Training to be a maester was Sam's idea. He asked Jon for those orders because he had Gilly and the kid, knew he'd never be a truly skilled fighter and figured this was the best way he could help.

[ImpinAintEasy]

7 minutes ago, Absurda said:

 

I really hope they are more creative than hooking Jon and Danaerys up romantically. It's just so boring.

Not to mention incesty since (if the hints are correct) he's her nephew. Incest is okay for Lannisters but I hope Targaryns have better taste.

 

Erm, I guess you missed that Jaime and Cersei justified their incest because the Targaryens did it. They are the blood of the dragon and they wanted to keep their bloodlines pure. Dany's parents were brother and sister. So aunt and nephew who never knew each other, much less that they were related, is nothing compared to the usual Targaryen practice. I think it's a given that they will get together. 

[paigow]

Titles, Shmitles... Qyburn saved The Mountain...Sam will cure Jorah only to watch Old Tarly decapitate him....

[Absurda]

okay, I sit corrected vis a vis Targaryns and incest. I must have missed that. I figured since one of them was married to the princess of Dorne (the one murdered by the Mountain) they didn't do that.

[RedHawk]

39 minutes ago, SoothingDave said:

Sam sure seems to be going out of his way to try to get kicked out of the Citadel.  First "borrowing" a book and now performing unauthorized forbidden medical experiments.  

That he would risk his future as a maester to do this for someone he doesn't know seems implausible.  Even if successful at saving Jorah, it will be known that he did what he was forbidden to do.

His ultimate goal is not really to become a maester but to learn what he needs to learn to help Jon Snow and defeat the White Walkers, and fast! After slogging away in the bogs for weeks and realizing he's not on the swift track for training, and that he will be dumped on and dismissed when he asks questions, he's taking matters into his own hands and doing what needs to be done. In other words, screw the maesters and their damned chains.

[taanja]

5 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

Arya's table manners are a lot like The Hound's. Can't wait to see her sit down and eat with Sansa. Funniest blink-ad-you'll-miss-it line of the week was when Hot Pie was giving advice on how to create the perfect pie and Arya muttered "I didn't do that."

 

Yes. Haha! I noticed that. Which made me really really want a Hound and Arya reunion. My speculation is that like Nymeria-- Arya will find she can't "go home" Meaning the home she remembers is gone forever. I think her days at Winterfell will be numbered. Was Littlefinger on her list? Maybe she'll kill him before she leaves?

[Tyro49]

15 hours ago, Drogo said:

Arya: Come with me. 

Nymeria:  What's that? Bad connection. You're breaking up, can't hear you..

I keep hoping that Nymeria and her pack will follow Arya, but as wild wolves, not tame pets. Nymeria knows who Arya is, and will act when necessary.

 

I was not expecting that battle, or its results! I'm left with an awful feeling that Cersei will somehow end up on top when this is all over.  I know it's not going to be a "Happy Ending", but that would be intoloerable!

[FnkyChkn34]

4 minutes ago, SoothingDave said:

Being a maester is the only path to respect a guy like Sam can find.  He loves reading and absorbing knowledge.  

Until something happens to Davos, and Jon makes him Hand of the King (for example).  Just because Sam's father didn't want him doesn't mean no one else will.

[Azi]

Why do I find Cersei and Qyburn so... endearing? Sort of? They seem to be really close and it seems like there is genuine trust between them. Cersei is so paranoid otherwise, but I guess that he seems to respect her without trying to boink her or telling her to get married again really helps. The giant crossbow thing is pretty dumb, but I did like the scene a lot.

I also liked Greyworm and Missandei. I'm not someone who needs nudity or sex in my shows, but if there is, then I want it to be two hot people who actually want to sleep with each other.

I assume Varys doesn't have the same network of little birds as before, since Qybutn "inherited" his little birds? He seems certainly less all knowing than before.

[Keepitmoving]

Also, wasn't there a flashback or a childhood memory of Cersie's where she remembers some prophecy about losing all three of her children (check) and that a woman younger and more beautiful than her would take her throne?  This episode was before she killed Olena's granddaughter and that entire religious posse, I forget what they were called.  But I remember thinking that Cersie probably thinks that she's the beautiful young woman that the prophecy was referring to since she had managed to win the heart of not just one but two of Cersie's sons. But the prophecy was really referring to Danny. 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[FnkyChkn34]

17 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

His ultimate goal is not really to become a maester but to learn what he needs to learn to help Jon Snow and defeat the White Walkers, and fast! After slogging away in the bogs for weeks and realizing he's not on the swift track for training, and that he will be dumped on and dismissed when he asks questions, he's taking matters into his own hands and doing what needs to be done. In other words, screw the maesters and their damned chains.

Thank you, that was also my point.  You elaborated much better than I did.

[Macbeth]

37 minutes ago, ImpinAintEasy said:

There is something more to Euron than meets the eye. When we first met him on that swaying rope bridge, there was a great storm raging. When his brother mentioned that he heard he lost his mind during a storm, he responded that "I am the storm, brother. The first storm and the last." And what did we see in this episode? A giant storm. When his fleet appears, it is bringing the storm with it. Perhaps that is why he was undetected? Maybe he has some magic that controls the weather and the seas?

Well. Shit. This is probably true.  

[meep.meep]

8 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Bwah. I was wondering about the rum also. Maybe they were "discovering" the West Indies while we were all paying attention to the Game of Thrones or more likely they are being cautious because of the current opioid epidemic. Regardless you would think that Sam would brought milk of poppy with him as it is an effective pain reliever and he did want Jorah to stay quiet.

It's because there are pirates around.  If you have pirates, you have to have rum.  

Don't they have anyone standing watch on the Iron Born fleet?  That's Mariners 101.  In case you encounter something, like maybe pirates.  Or an iceberg.

I don't think that crossbow is going to work well against dragons.  But it might work really well against a wight Giant.  And those guys at Winterfell instructing the children, would be better off making crossbows because anyone can use a crossbow, it doesn't require strength like a long bow does.  Probably why it was Joffrey's weapon of choice.

There's enough eunuchs around for a game of Marry Shag Kill - Varys, GreyWorm, Theon - you pick.

[seacliffsal]

So far this season has been AMAZING!!!  I, too, thought it was Yara hanging from the ship, but I will watch again to make sure.  However, I was surprised how relaxed Yara was before the attack.  On a mission, yet paying more attention to a budding sexual encounter than ensuring that all was well.  Just last season she told Dany about her crazy uncle out for revenge-then they are sailing to/fro Dorne and are...attacked.  I agree with others than Theon realized there would not be a good outcome to trying to save Dany from Euron, so live another day.  

I also loved seeing Hot Pie and Nymeria.  I think that Nymeria and Ghost will both be there when there is a real need.  I have always been more invested in the direwolves than in the dragons.  I hope that Dany loses at least one dragon so that she will start to know some of the loss that the Starks have experienced.  She also talks about the death of her father, but Sansa actually saw the execution of her father and Arya could hear what was happening even though her eyes had been covered.  Her sense of entitlement based on what she believes she has lost and is owed, pales in comparison to what the Starks have experienced.  Even in her marriage to Drogo-he eventually listened to her and tried to please her.  Not so much with Ramsey Bolton and Sansa.  

I appreciate that there is doubt about who will "win" the Iron Thorne.  It would be so great if after all of the upcoming desolation occurs Gendry just shows up in KIngs Landing and just walks into the throne room and sits down... 

Edited July 25, 2017 by seacliffsal
I gave Ghost the wrong name...

[WaltersHair]

Quote

I sense a three-peat of walking out of fire naked to convince everyone she is a badass again cause her speeches just aren't working for me.

So true. I'd listen to the 10 year old up at Winterfell before I'd listen to Danny.

[Dobian]

Theon and Grey Worm were both in scenes showcasing their lack of a certain appendage.  Am I sensing a theme here?

They really are rushing things forward.  Westeros used to seem much bigger, the main characters would almost never run into each other.  Now they seem to just hop on a Westeros Air red eye flight and are at their destination in hours.  Dany sends a note to Lady Olenna, who is hundreds of miles away, and she shows up, what, two scenes later?  It would have taken a couple of weeks to get the note and then travel by horse and then boat to get there.

[SillyOldClothCat]

17 hours ago, Popples said:

I think she meant that Nymeria wouldn't just abandon her pack to go with Arya.

Thank you, that makes sense!

[Couver]

1 hour ago, Tyro49 said:

I keep hoping that Nymeria and her pack will follow Arya, but as wild wolves, not tame pets. Nymeria knows who Arya is, and will act when necessary.

 

I was not expecting that battle, or its results! I'm left with an awful feeling that Cersei will somehow end up on top when this is all over.  I know it's not going to be a "Happy Ending", but that would be intoloerable!

I honestly feel like the show checked in with Nymeria for the reason you are suggesting. That come the final big battle with the WW Nymeria is going to show up with a ton of wolves. 

[lucindabelle]

2 hours ago, ImpinAintEasy said:

 

Erm, I guess you missed that Jaime and Cersei justified their incest because the Targaryens did it. They are the blood of the dragon and they wanted to keep their bloodlines pure. Dany's parents were brother and sister. So aunt and nephew who never knew each other, much less that they were related, is nothing compared to the usual Targaryen practice. I think it's a given that they will get together. 

You know, given that, why didnt Viserys marry Daenerys? I mean ew but I do wonder.

Incest when they've never met is less horrible. Similarly, it would feel like incest had any of the Stark girls gotten with Theon because they grew up with him.

 

So where did Euron get the flax for the sails?

Same place Arya got the poison.

And I can't be the only one noticing that making a meat pie is damn hard. Maybe she put on the face of the head cook, but I really do wonder how she prepared the sons' bodies with nobody noticing. It made a nice image onscreen, shades of Greek tragedy and all, but on reflection isn't very probable.

 

I can buy killing them.

Turning them into meat cuts that get put into a pie is just harder to believe. Somebody help me out with a scenario?

 

NOBODY BETTER HURT NYMERIA.

 

DRAGONS BETTER NOT GET HURT.

 

That is all.

[enoughcats]

2 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

But the prophecy was really referring to Danny. 

Or is Danny a red herring? 

There are a lot of young women left.  Not just Sansa and Arya.  A certain very young lady from Bear Island.  Brienne .  The surviving sand snake.   Gillie.  Danny's translator (whose back story we really don't know.)  

[Keepitmoving]

2 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Or is Danny a red herring? 

There are a lot of young women left.  Not just Sansa and Arya.  A certain very young lady from Bear Island.  Brienne .  The surviving sand snake.   Gillie.  Danny's translator (whose back story we really don't know.)  

Yeah maybe she is, maybe it's too much of a wrapping up in a nice bow for Danny to get the throne. But I just thought about that prophecy as giving me hope that Cersei will get hers. Whether she lives or dies, her ass will lose that throne to someone. I love Cersei's evil ass, she's certainly a character you love to hate; but I still want her to get what's coming to her in the end. 

I also don't think that Jon will survive in the end. 

[shockermolar]

Let's put aside the whole "when/how did Euron build an entire huge ass fleet of giant warships" for a second. Here's my question about the grand plan - who exactly is still backing the Lannisters that they even need to be a threat?  

Look at a Westerosi map - there are ton of them online. 

Jon & Sansa have control of The North (Stark). They are allied with The Vale (Arryn via cousin Robin/Littlefinger). TWO kingdoms.

Danerys is on Dragonstone, allied with Dorne (the Martels) and The Reach (Lady Olenna) as long as Tarly and his group don't turn on her.  TWO kingdoms.

Theoretically the Lannisters have the Riverlands - assuming that they know Walder is dead and they put someone with ability in place at the Twins and Riverrun, and also assuming Edmure Tully doesn't finally stand up for himself, otherwise that entire area is in chaos. They have the west via Casterly Rock, but who is actually the Warden there? Kevan is dead, right?  The only absolute allies they have are the Ironborn. TWO Kingdoms.

The south-eastern Stormlands above Dorne no one ever seems to talk about really. In fact for a long time that's where I assumed the Iron Islands were. So I'm not sure what house has power there other than Brienne's family. And you could say that they ally with the Starks - although for some reason I have the impression that she's the last of her house? 

Basically, the Lannisters control a central swathe of Westeros at what is the narrowest portion of the continent. They have enemies above in the form of Stark supporters. And they have the Dothraki directly to the east, Dany's allies to south and potentially the unsullied from the west should they take Casterly Rock.  Yes, Euron's fleet is going to be a problem. BUT what he destroyed can't be the entirety of Dany's fleet. After all, the 2nd part of their plan is to move the ENTIRE Unsullied over to Casterly Rock via ship. They have to have a bunch of other ships for that to be in play.

The Dornish and the bannermen of The Reach don't need to descend on Kings Landing from the sea - they just have to take the Roseroad, and the Starks and Knights of the Vale can take the Kings Road.  

When what's left of the house you swore fealty to is a woman who everyone knows slept with her brother, killed her husband and blew up the Sept of Baelor, AND you have forces coming at you from 2, 3 or even 4 sides? At what point do you just say screw this crazy lady and open up the gates of the city?

[enoughcats]

11 minutes ago, shockermolar said:

At what point do you just say screw this crazy lady and open up the gates of the city?

To this add rampant cholera from the sewage running through the streets as a result of the sewers blown up belos the Sept.  

Cholera is not the way to keep an army on it's .....feet. 

[Lady S.]

3 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

It occurs to me in this episode that Littlefinger understands Cersei and King's Landing but that he doesn't get the North as well as he thinks he does.   Whenever there's a meeting of Jon and the Northern Houses, Little Finger doesn't sit with the other lords.  He's always off against the wall standing apart from them.   He's fixated on the idea that Sansa is the key to gaining leadership in the North but that hasn't been shown.  When Littlefinger lied to the other Lords and spread the false rumor that Ramsey kidnapped Sansa from him, the Lords didn't rally around Littlefinger to rescue her.   There was so much bitterness because of Ned and Robb's mistakes, and Sansa was being judged as if she willingly married Tyrion and Ramsey instead of them feeling sympathy towards her for being forced to marry the enemy.  Sansa's public support of Jon prior to the Battle of the Bastards did not get them the Northern support they needed.  Littlefinger was convinced that Jon was beneath his notice because Jon was a bastard and assumed the Northern lords would reject Jon.  Yet Jon was named King.   Littlefinger helped save the day in the Battle of the Bastards and yet the Northern Lords don't seem to notice him in a heroic light.  Jon was the one who they turned to for leadership.  He overestimated Sansa's value and underestimated the North's willingness to support Jon.  So Littlefinger has a record of getting it wrong when it comes to the North. 

I saw a comment on a review last week that Littlefinger is out of his element in the North just as Ned was in King's Landing. He's on the Starks' own turf now, and smarmy scheming isn't as much use. As you say, even if he somehow manipulated Sansa into marrying him, it still wouldn't work out well. The only reason he still has influence is because his stepson is a twit and Sansa was desperate enough to make use of him when they didn't have enough allies. His pitch to Jon was terrible, "Hey, I was a huge fan of your mean stepmother so now I want to bone her daughter, your sister. And you owe me for helping Sansa after I sold her to the Boltons, so ..."

 

2 hours ago, ImpinAintEasy said:

There is something more to Euron than meets the eye. When we first met him on that swaying rope bridge, there was a great storm raging. When his brother mentioned that he heard he lost his mind during a storm, he responded that "I am the storm, brother. The first storm and the last." And what did we see in this episode? A giant storm. When his fleet appears, it is bringing the storm with it. Perhaps that is why he was undetected? Maybe he has some magic that controls the weather and the seas?

I was thinking that the storm theme could refer to Jon ("the last, best hope against the coming storm") and Euron too. The kingsmoot scene last year was disappointing, but I thought his first scene dispatching Balon was great, including the storm part setting up what a lunatic he is.
 

Quote

Balon: I heard you lost your mind during a storm on the Jade Sea. They tied you to the mast to keep you from jumping overboard.
Euron: They did.
Balon: And when the storm passed, you cut out their tongues.
Euron: I needed silence.
Balon: What kind of an ironborn loses his senses during a storm?
Euron: I am the storm, brother. The first storm and the last. And you're in my way.

I'd love if there was some dark magic follow-up to that. The ironmen have been such chumps until now. Crazy Euron is the first one who actually seems like a Pirate King/fantasy Viking expy. (And I wonder if the mutilations setting off Theon's PTSD were his men cutting out tongues.)

Updated. (Grumpy Snake was the one speared to the ship, Whip-It Girl was the one hanging from the prow, and Bad Pussy was the one captured alive because she was with her Mama.)

[Cyranetta]

There was something so satisfying about Arya having happy moments. It was as if she had been on a long arc of development towards becoming nothing more than a human weapon, but is now being pulled back towards humanity. For her to learn that she is not really a Lone Wolf vis-à-vis family (even though she is a lone wolf vis-à-vis wolves, at least for now), and for Hot Pie to be the agent of her finding out resulted in a most un-GOT feeling of uplift (which probably means utter desolation to come for all involved).

There was something almost as uplifting about Tyrion remembering Jon Snow with something close to fondness, and Sansa remembering Tyrion with respect, if not fondness.

In this show, uplifting moments have the unsettling effect of increased dread.

[lucindabelle]

1 hour ago, enoughcats said:

Or is Danny a red herring? 

There are a lot of young women left.  Not just Sansa and Arya.  A certain very young lady from Bear Island.  Brienne .  The surviving sand snake.   Gillie.  Danny's translator (whose back story we really don't know.)  

But it's a younger and PRETTIER woman so that leaves off Brienne and Lyanna (who may be nice looking but is not a patch on Cersei). Ditto Arya.

Sansa is possible but I don't see it. She'd be miserable ruling the iron throne.

I like the idea that it's just as obvious as it seems,it just didn't occur to Cersei.

Daenerys for the win.

[Pogojoco]

5 hours ago, SoothingDave said:

No, other way around.  You'd have to pass Dragonstone if leaving King's Landing.

Dragonstone is just North East of King's Landing. Dorne is South. You have to pass the outer water of Blackwater Bay to get to Dorne.

You do also have to pass Dragonstone to get out of King's Landing to the Narrow Sea. I still maintain sending ships past there wasn't the best idea when they know Euron is hanging out with Cersei. 

[Lady S.]

1 hour ago, lucindabelle said:

You know, given that, why didnt Viserys marry Daenerys? I mean ew but I do wonder.

I'm sure he would have in a normal course of events if they still had some power, but he was desperate enough to let Illyrio talk him into selling her off. (The line about letting all the Dothraki and their horses fuck her if that was what it took to get an army.) I always thought the scene of him inspecting her naked body in the pilot was pretty squicky, so it wasn't too surprising when Cersei first said the Targs practiced incest as the norm throughout their reign. (Which wouldn't mean they never married outside their House. There wouldn't always be close relatives available. Rhaegar never had any sisters because Dany wasn't born until after his death.)

 

2 hours ago, Couver said:

I honestly feel like the show checked in with Nymeria for the reason you are suggesting. That come the final big battle with the WW Nymeria is going to show up with a ton of wolves. 

That's what I'm hoping for. The wolves have been fairly good against wights unless cornered in an enclosed cave like Summer was at the end. Although they're still being stingy regarding Ghost. 

Poor guy hasn't gotten any action since killing Rast and some wildlings in s4.

[scrb]

5 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

I suspect that if Littlefinger succeeded in getting Sansa to marry him that it wouldn't be the automatic path to being King he thinks. 

He really has a lot of confidence in his ability to seduce women to gain power, with a name like Littlefinger ...

[scrb]

I think the Sand Snakes' strength is their quickness and the use of attacks from distance because they're not going to be as strong as men.

On the ship, the battles are in close quarters so they can't come in for quick strikes and tumble away to evade retaliation.

So that would explain why they were relatively easily taken out by Euron.

 

Or maybe Benioff and Weiss, along with Martin, no longer had any ideas for Dorne or at least the Sand women.

[RedHawk]

2 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

You know, given that, why didnt Viserys marry Daenerys? I mean ew but I do wonder.

 

He sold her to Khal Drogo for an army. The Targaryen children were penniless and she would have been of no value to him as a wife.

[SuzieQ]

I love this board and the people!! I have forgotten a lot of what happened in the earlier seasons and you guys are a wealth of info!  Love you guys!

Edited July 24, 2017 by SuzieQ

[kieyra]

The writing is getting really clunky, as characters just have to deliver chunk after chunk of colorless exposition. I miss the days when there was a bit more subtlety to the dialogue (in between the rape and torture). Can you imagine the current writing in the mouth of someone like Tywin Lannister? The last two seasons have been very cartoonish in that respect, I guess since they departed from the books. (But there has to be more to it than that--feels like a change of writing staff, or being in a rush so close to the finish line. Something tells me this show's writers' room is not a meritocracy, though.)

(Peter Dinklage should be grateful they're not making him deliver more dialogue. No one's getting Emmy noms next year at this rate--some material can't be risen above.)

I guess this is nitpicking, since I don't see a lot of complaints about it (vs all the logistical plot holes); I'm just always interested in the dialogue and I watch with captions on. 

I really hate to voice what I suspect is a "piling on" opinion, but Emilia Clarke's acting ... is showing.

No idea why they used Yara and Ellaria's flirtation/kiss as the death knell, but it was predictable and it bugged.

Nothing scares me on this show as much as those giant wolves snarling. Must be some primal humanoid fear. 

Edited July 24, 2017 by kieyra

[BitterApple]

5 hours ago, sashabear21 said:

I hope when she asks Jon to bend the knee that Jon tells her to go fuck herself.  I know that won't happen, as he needs her dragons and army to defeat the White Walkers, but that's what happens in the Game of Thrones that plays in my head.  

You and me both. If it's D&D's intention to make the audience hate Dany by turning her into an insufferable bitch, mission accomplished. I'm starting to root for Cersei at this point. 

[kieyra]

40 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

You and me both. If it's D&D's intention to make the audience hate Dany by turning her into an insufferable bitch, mission accomplished. I'm starting to root for Cersei at this point. 

I can't go that far (Cersei), but they are making Dany needlessly antagonistic to her allies and I have no idea why. And I mentioned in a recent post, but Emilia Clarke isn't helping matters. I'm trying hard to make sure I'm not viewing this through a gendered lens (where a man is kingly but a woman doing the same thing is bitchy), but they're writing Jon to be a reasonable sweetheart by comparison. So yeah, I blame the writers.

ETA: Unless we're supposed to think Dany is growing into her imperious, hereditary insanity ...

Edited July 25, 2017 by kieyra

[Keepitmoving]

30 minutes ago, kieyra said:

I can't go that far (Cersei), but they are making Dany needless antagonistic to her allies and I have no idea why. And I mentioned in a recent post, but Emilia Clarke isn't helping matters. I'm trying hard to make sure I'm not viewing this through a gendered lens (where a man is kingly but a woman doing the same thing is bitchy), but they're writing Jon to be a reasonable sweetheart by comparison. So yeah, I blame the writers.

ETA: Unless we're supposed to think Dany is growing into her imperious, hereditary insanity ...

Eh, the entitled attitudes of the characters on this show doesn't bother me. Antagonizing just cause I can behavior, doesn't bother. What gets my eyes rolling is when you can't back your nasty attitude up with action. So the more Danny loses, the more I'll get sick of hearing her claim the throne as her birth right every damn episode. Because if you can't win, then you don't deserve it. See I hate Cersei, but I love to hate Cersei, I don't want her to change, she's a bad ass because she backs up her mouth with action.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Amarsir]

2 hours ago, shockermolar said:

Let's put aside the whole "when/how did Euron build an entire huge ass fleet of giant warships" for a second. Here's my question about the grand plan - who exactly is still backing the Lannisters that they even need to be a threat?  

On that note, what logic was behind that Tarly scene?

You're a Tyrell bannerman - an important and loyal one. Cersei just assassinated 3 Tyrells and a bunch of other people. The head of the Tyrells declares war and everyone knows you're a huge asset. Cersei invites you to come to King's Landing and be surrounded by Lannisters. And you say "OK, but let me bring along my next of kin."???

And then the conversation ends with you saying you're still probably going to fight them, and Cersei & Jaime's reaction is "OK have a good trip, see you at the war."?

[Absurda]

I was a little confused about Cersei's pitch to the Tarlys. She was saying the Dothraki would slaughter, rape, torture, etc them. But, if they are Tyrell bannermen, the Dothraki would be on their side so they'd be safe from that. In theory.

Dany's demand that Jon come and bend the knee sounded jarringly arrogant, but might make sense politically.

When Dany made her alliance with Yara it was essentially "independence for the Iron Islands in exchange for support" and one of her advisers (can't remember who) said she couldn't keep making deals like that or she'd have no kingdom to rule. Now, here's the north declaring itself independent and with their own king.

Dany can't have an independent north floating about. An independent Iron Islands is no big deal, but the North is far larger, more powerful and more consequential. They would always be a threat to her reign and their king a potential rival for the throne.

Demanding Jon come bend the knee to her not only restates her claim ("I am the rightful ruler in Westeros, including the north") but would also let her know where the North stands.

If Jon bends the knee then she has the entire North sworn to her and behind her. If he doesn't, she'll know she has another threat out there and may need to add the North to her "to do" list after Cersei.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Absurda
Because the Tyrells and Tarlys are different families.

[Bubbles1967]

22 hours ago, BitterApple said:

 

Count me in with those who are getting tired of Dany's smug entitlement. 

I'm with you. Seriously  Dany? Jon bend the knee?  F you!

She will be taken down a notch when she finds out about the battle. 

I gasped when I saw Euron's ships.  Holy shit.

I really thought Dany was a shoo in for Queen but I underestimated Cersei. I should know better.

[nachomama]

Can the night king add to his army south of the wall? And/or do they begin to deteriorate in the southern weather? I know it's "winter" but still warmer than sub-zero. He better not get a dragon white Walker! 

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, kieyra said:

ETA: Unless we're supposed to think Dany is growing into her imperious, hereditary insanity ...

If she does, wouldn't that make for a much more interesting story arc? I mean, Tyrion and Varys have been shipping for this girl, for what, two years now? How unbelievably epic would it be if they went through all this trouble to assemble an army and then she turns out to be a total nutter? Or if Tyrion or Jon end up having to kill her once she goes full-on Mad Queen? 

I understand she has to be a strong character to be taken seriously, but for all her annoying moments I've never found her as arrogant as I did in that "bend the knee" scene. 

[kieyra]

2 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

If she does, wouldn't that make for a much more interesting story arc? I mean, Tyrion and Varys have been shipping for this girl, for what, two years now? How unbelievably epic would it be if they went through all this trouble to assemble an army and then she turns out to be a total nutter? Or if Tyrion or Jon end up having to kill her once she goes full-on Mad Queen? 

I understand she has to be a strong character to be taken seriously, but for all her annoying moments I've never found her as arrogant as I did in that "bend the knee" scene. 

I like your Mad Queen arc and I want to watch *that* season.

Edited July 25, 2017 by kieyra

[Philbert]

20 hours ago, Dobian said:

Theon: Westeros' Ultimate Survivor

Webster's just announced that they have changed the definition of "coward" in their dictionary.  It is now simply a picture of Theon Greyjoy.

 

Having watched that scene three times now, I am beginning to think that there was more than a little tactical calculation in that 'cowardice.' At that point, Theon and Yara were fucked. At least now, he's got a chance to follow and get her back. He might very well be following the old adage, "He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day."

Theon is due for one glorious moment before he dies in this show-I suspect it will come at Euron's expense.

[Pogojoco]

Yeah, I get the Targaryen incest thing- Though that's been played down in the show, other than Cersei and Jamie. And their incest has been treated as something to hide, to kill for, as a symbol of their dysfunction.  Starks are anti-incest, though. 

I hope they team up as non-romantic partners or maybe rivals.  Straight up romance between the two is boring and I'll be disappointed if they go there. (Yeah, they probably will. Sigh.) 

 

And yes, the "bend the knee" thing was something.....

Edited July 25, 2017 by Pogojoco

[kieyra]

6 minutes ago, Philbert said:

Having watched that scene three times now, I am beginning to think that there was more than a little tactical calculation in that 'cowardice.' At that point, Theon and Yara were fucked. At least now, he's got a chance to follow and get her back. He might very well be following the old adage, "He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day."

Theon is due for one glorious moment before he dies in this show-I suspect it will come at Euron's expense.

I've seen several explanations for his choice, and all of them are fine with me (it was tactical, it was a result of his PTSD, he refused to be recaptured after Bolton, etc). Even a combo of all. I agree it's down to him and Euron either way. I'd like to think he's going to rescue Yara and that's his impetus, but I don't see Yara living past the next episode. I like her character a lot for some reason, and I wish she got to be the pirate queen, but I have to remind myself that Theon is a day-one character they have spent endless hours of screen time on, and she isn't. He gets the destiny, for good or ill, and she is fodder.