S13.E09: Week 9: Overnight Dates

[Canada]

12 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

That seems like an over-generalization based on 10 minutes of screen time but obviously mileage varies. Then again, I got the impression I was seeing that Rachel's family was down-low being called uppity from the initial comment quoted, which makes me uncomfortable as a Black woman to see. 

I didn't call them uppity.  I called them snobby and uptight.  If you choose to see colour in that comment, that's on you.

[dleighg]

4 minutes ago, Canada said:

I didn't call them uppity.  I called them snobby and uptight.  If you choose to see colour in that comment, that's on you.

Yeah I thought about this and thought that my DH and I (we are white) might give a similar vibe to Rachel's family, as would most of my husband's extended family. It's more or less WASPy reserve. Since the word uppity wasn't used, we shouldn't insert it just because they are black. Though of course they wouldn't be called WASPy either. But the adjectives were just that, adjectives.

[LilJen]

17 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I find it nauseating how people leave this franchise as if the people they were on the show with are the best friends they ever had and they had no friends before the show.  It is like some kind of illness.  I wonder, however, how many of them would actually be there for them if they were really down and out and not just for a social media picture or a trip to a bar or some resort to have fun? 

This! All these "these are now my best friends for LIFE" come off as fake. I can buy that a few of them become good friends, but most of them just go back to their lives as they were before the show.

[Chick2Chic]

15 minutes ago, Canada said:

I didn't call them uppity.  I called them snobby and uptight.  If you choose to see colour in that comment, that's on you.

I said it gave me the impression of them down-low being called uppity and not that you actually used that specific word, but if you can't see why anyone would get that impression - especially a Black woman - then that would be on you. You have your opinion and I have mine. 

[comosedice]

4 hours ago, Siggystardust said:

As soon as I saw his father, I knew where his cheeks came from. Cannot believe this is an actual debate. Cheek defense squad. You never fail me internet. LOL

I am choosing to interpret this as you knowing the signature work of the family's surgeon.

[ljenkins782]

58 minutes ago, LilJen said:

Quote

I find it nauseating how people leave this franchise as if the people they were on the show with are the best friends they ever had and they had no friends before the show.  It is like some kind of illness.  I wonder, however, how many of them would actually be there for them if they were really down and out and not just for a social media picture or a trip to a bar or some resort to have fun? 

This! All these "these are now my best friends for LIFE" come off as fake. I can buy that a few of them become good friends, but most of them just go back to their lives as they were before the show.

It's all business. The show wants recognizable faces from previous seasons to come back to pretend to be BFFS with the new lead because every contestant has fans (except maybe Lee and Whaboom! ;) ) and more people may watch. That's pretty much the same reason they take selfies and attend events together that they can post about on social media. 

The posts with a whole bunch of former contestants will likely draw more attention because of the familiarity factor and having a lot of followers/likes can lead to companies paying them to shill on social media. I'm not saying all of them are going to become Instagram shillers as a career (though some do), but who wouldn't take a bunch of cash for simply posting pictures? Considering the amount of dignity and privacy they give up to do these shows, not to mention the amount of hate they probably deal with daily on social media, that's a perk they can get in return. 

[mostlylurking]

1 hour ago, Chick2Chic said:

it gave me the impression of them down-low being called uppity

What does this mean??  Is it offensive to call a black person uppity?  I always though uppity just was another word for uptight or condescending.  Seriously asking.  I'm half Portuguese half Brazilian (if it matters).  

[dleighg]

2 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

What does this mean??  Is it offensive to call a black person uppity?  I always though uppity just was another word for uptight or condescending.  Seriously asking.  I'm half Portuguese half Brazilian (if it matters).  

absolutely. In fact, the word is not typically used for white people. It was commonly used back in the day (say before the 60s) for a black person who was not subservient enough -- who "acted white." https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/11/yep-uppity-racist/335160/

[mostlylurking]

6 minutes ago, dleighg said:

fact, the word is not typically used for white people.

Truly did not know this.  I have for sure called white people uppity.  OMG.  Never knew this, and I consider myself pretty well read (and humble!).  Thank you for this.  I learned something today.

Edited July 26, 2017 by mostlylurking

[SnapeCharmer]

32 minutes ago, comosedice said:

I am choosing to interpret this as you knowing the signature work of the family's surgeon.

Um...

[dleighg]

27 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

Truly did not know this.  I have for sure called white people uppity.

just to clarify, there's no real disrespect (other than what's intended) in calling white people uppity. It's just that it's kind of an old-fashioned term, colored (no pun intended) by its historical roots. And I also want to reiterate, that the person whose comment started this, IMHO did not use, or intend, anything like "uppity." If even synonyms of "uppity" become racist, then we are very vocabulary-limited indeed.

[StatisticalOutlier]

3 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

Deleted scene with Rachel's cousin and Peter. 

Peter:  "She and I's connection was instant."

[Canada]

The word uppity can be used for people of any colour.  This notion that it's only used towards black people is just biased BS.

[Ohwell]

23 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Peter:  "She and I's connection was instant."

The funny (sad?) thing about it is that whenever he says that (She and I's, Rachel and I's), he just just looks and sounds so pleased with himself.

[comosedice]

Just now, Canada said:

The word uppity can be used for people of any colour.  This notion that it's only used towards black people is just biased BS.

Are you absolutely sure about this? If a person tells you a term you are using is offensive to him/her, it doesn't hurt to listen and stop using it, unless, of course, your intention was to offend. I'm ignorant about the usage of the word uppity. I have never used and don't plan to.

3 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

The funny (sad?) thing about it is that whenever he says that (She and I's, Rachel and I's), he just just looks and sounds so pleased with himself.

Well, he doesn't know that it's not correct grammar. I can't hold it against him. Those who know should correct him and explain why it's wrong. I know I don't know everything, so I try not to be quick to judge others for the same.

[StatisticalOutlier]

7 minutes ago, Canada said:

The word uppity can be used for people of any colour.  This notion that it's only used towards black people is just biased BS.

It can be used for people of any color, but it's particularly offensive to black people.  Remember Clarence Thomas referring to the hearing on Anita Hill's accusations as a "high tech lynching for uppity blacks..."

[Stinamaia]

6 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

 

We're seeing a well-known dynamic at work here. Some people who come from less-than-successful backgrounds but then achieve success (as Rachel's family obviously has) hate where they grew up and people who act "too White Trash" (or "too Mexican" or "too Asian" or "too Black" or whatever). Eric is obviously a smart and well-spoken man who has made great strides to improve his life; however, his speech and mannerisms are still very "hood," for lack of a better term. Rachel's parents, who have spent their lives integrating themselves into upper-class white society, would totally see Rachel choosing Eric as a step in the wrong direction. They seem snobby and uptight because that's how the people they work and socialize with carry themselves, so they're mirroring that behavior as a way to be accepted.

(FYI: My fiancee is from Chicago and knows a couple of African-American classmates at Columbia College who came up out of the projects, got scholarships and today are very successful. Not only do they never, ever go back to the projects they grew up in, they refuse to even drive through those neighborhoods or associate with the people who still live there.)

Where did you get the information that Rachel's parents came from less than successful backgrounds?  I hadn't seen that.   As for your fiancee's acquaintances, perhaps they are reluctant to return to scenes of their childhoods because of the pain of unpleasant memories.  I know I had some extremely unpleasant years in one town, and even driving through the town many years later makes me have a bad feeling.  I avoid it. I also grew up in a less successful home (dirt poor), yet the people I grew up with were very quiet and reserved, as am I  I didn't get that way because I was trying to be accepted.  If anything, I became more out going to become accepted.  I don't know.  These kinds of generalizations make me queasy.  I know black lawyers in Texas a generation older than Rachel who came from very well to do backgrounds.  

I saw something different in Rachel's family.  I saw expectations for success and expectations for behavior.  Those things seem pretty normal to me and were present even in my less than successful home.

5 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

That seems like an over-generalization based on 10 minutes of screen time but obviously mileage varies. Then again, I got the impression I was seeing that Rachel's family was down-low being called uppity from the initial comment quoted, which makes me uncomfortable as a Black woman to see. 

Not just you as a black woman.  Me as a white woman too.  Maybe I'm too defensive. It made me squirm a bit.  If it wasn't so intended, I'm glad it wasn't.

[truthaboutluv]

6 minutes ago, Stinamaia said:

Where did you get the information that Rachel's parents came from less than successful backgrounds?  I hadn't seen that.  

Not sure about the poster but I know she mentioned it in her People blog when she was explaining why she was nervous about Eric's MTP date. She wanted to make it clear it wasn't because of his background because neither of her parents came from affluence.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

13 minutes ago, Stinamaia said:

Where did you get the information that Rachel's parents came from less than successful backgrounds?  I hadn't seen that.   As for your fiancee's acquaintances, perhaps they are reluctant to return to scenes of their childhoods because of the pain of unpleasant memories.  I know I had some extremely unpleasant years in one town, and even driving through the town many years later makes me have a bad feeling.  I avoid it. I also grew up in a less successful home (dirt poor), yet the people I grew up with were very quiet and reserved, as am I  I didn't get that way because I was trying to be accepted.  If anything, I became more out going to become accepted.  I don't know.  These kinds of generalizations make me queasy.  I know black lawyers in Texas a generation older than Rachel who came from very well to do backgrounds.  

I saw something different in Rachel's family.  I saw expectations for success and expectations for behavior.  Those things seem pretty normal to me and were present even in my less than successful home.

I may have made some hasty assumptions regarding the upbringing and attitudes of Rachel's parents. However, I STILL say Rachel's mom would not want her to end up with Eric, and that was the source of the mostly well-masked hostility towards him.

As for my fiancee's friends: Their not wanting to return to the projects they grew up in, even to visit, is rooted in two things: A hatred for the projects themselves, and the fact that most of their family and friends still in the projects accused them of "acting white" when they enrolled at Columbia.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Sir RaiderDuck OMS

[violet and green]

On 7/26/2017 at 3:24 AM, truthaboutluv said:

Judging by the reactions I see online for Peter, unfortunately you and I maybe be in the minority on that sentiment. Trust me, I get it but yeah, the fanaticism that seems to have developed around this guy, if Rachel doesn't pick him, no way they don't make him the next Bachelor. 

Cool news!

On 7/26/2017 at 3:49 AM, 1992austenlover said:

Honestly, I think that the reason why they were harsher on Brian is because I get the sense that Brian's personality is just very different to what they are used to dealing with and is therefore very hard for them to understand. 

Yeah, smarmy. That guy has 100 red flags posted on his forehead! Then throw in Mommy and you can hear the sirens wailing, Danger ahead!

I feel sorry for Rachel - here's hoping we get a good Bachelor out of this season, at any rate.

[SnapeCharmer]

Re: Uppity

I've learned a long time ago to not engage with anyone I suspect is unwilling to empathize, understand or at minimum open themselves to another point of view on issues dealing with race. I felt the same way about that comment as Chick2Chic, but I  knew addressing it was futile. Especially as a Black woman. The minute you reveal that you are indeed a Black woman and that - that A. B. C. action was offensive, the walls of resistance goes up from those who are unable and unwilling to consider the message due to the messenger. Dr. Joy Degruy can explain inherent bias, coded language and living while Black (woman) better than I. So here goes:

I guarantee if Dr. DeGruy had called that woman out before her sister-in-law did, the outcome would have been very different.

[Alapaki]

9 hours ago, Siggystardust said:

As soon as I saw his father, I knew where his cheeks came from. Cannot believe this is an actual debate. Cheek defense squad. You never fail me internet. LOL

Well, I'll throw my .02 in on cheek-gate.

I found it interesting that when Peter was describing Miami (presumably as a metaphor for Bryan), he said it's full of "fake boobs, fake butts, and fake cheeks".  I found that an add thing to include, because most people wouldn't lumps in cheek-implants as a common cosmetic surgery procedure butts and boobs.  

That doesn't mean it's true of course.  But it suggests that is isn't only viewers who questioned whether Bryan had an after-market modifications. 

[SnapeCharmer]

19 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

Well, I'll throw my .02 in on cheek-gate.

I found it interesting that when Peter was describing Miami (presumably as a metaphor for Bryan), he said it's full of "fake boobs, fake butts, and fake cheeks".  I found that an add thing to include, because most people wouldn't lumps in cheek-implants as a common cosmetic surgery procedure butts and boobs.  

That doesn't mean it's true of course.  But it suggests that is isn't only viewers who questioned whether Bryan had an after-market modifications. 

So, let me dip my toe in crazy BN conspiracy theory land and take a guess that production prompted him to say that. All this cheek implant talk has been swirling around the net since shortly after the premiere, so considering that the show was airing while they were still filming, I would bet, they put that little kernel in the guy's ear during their interviews, and he repeated it. He needs to stir up a rivalry at this point, and well, he desperately wants that Bachelor gig.  

And let's just say, Bryan and his family have the MJ family plastic surgery plan. Instead of noses, they do cheeks. Who cares? I care more about whether he's selling us a real love story or not. Bryan is failing miserably, a close second behind Peter, who cannot even phone it in at this point. Rachel tried, but even she is struggling to make it convincing at this point in the show. At least the finale looks like it might be good. They might finally show us something convincing but too bad it comes too little too late. 

[Stinamaia]

I think they wrapped filming before the show aired. 

I know nothing about cheeks. 

[SnapeCharmer]

15 minutes ago, Stinamaia said:

I think they wrapped filming before the show aired. 

I know nothing about cheeks. 

Well there goes that theory. But I still wonder who started this rumor? Because it does not look like he has cheek implants. Just a family trait. Like Peter's gap teeth.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Siggystardust

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Peter:  "She and I's connection was instant."

I loved the cousin's visible effort to keep a straight face after hearing that.

[dirtypop90]

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Not sure about the poster but I know she mentioned it in her People blog when she was explaining why she was nervous about Eric's MTP date. She wanted to make it clear it wasn't because of his background because neither of her parents came from affluence.

I noticed she also slipped in that she has dated men with a similar background to Eric before.  I haven't seen enough of Rachel's family to make any judgment about them, but Rachel does not come off as one of "those" type of middle-class black people who want nothing to do with lower-income black people.  

Plus, her family liked Peter and I saw in a deleted scene that he told them he was a personal trainer.  I'm sure they also knew he doesn't have a 4-year degree because I'm sure they looked them all up. 

[Miss Slay]

10 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Rachel's parents, who have spent their lives integrating themselves into upper-class white society, would totally see Rachel choosing Eric as a step in the wrong direction.

I'm sorry, I just had to jump in to correct you. There is a very active upper-class black society in Dallas. Upper class blacks have their own communities.

[ridethemaverick]

33 minutes ago, Miss Slay said:

I'm sorry, I just had to jump in to correct you. There is a very active upper-class black society in Dallas. Upper class blacks have their own communities.

This. I was confused by that comment as well because the upper class black families I know have no desire to be part of white society. I actually found it surprising that the uncle and sister were married to white people because that's still somewhat frowned upon in those circles. 

I think the Lindsays are a lovely family and based on my lived experiences, I have no doubts about their ability to cut loose. I'm sure they play Frankie Beverly and Maze at the cookout just like the rest of us. They just don't do it on tv. 

Edited July 27, 2017 by ridethemaverick

[Refresh]

5 hours ago, Siggystardust said:

Well there goes that theory. But I still wonder who started this rumor? Because it does not look like he has cheek implants. Just a family trait. Like Peter's gap teeth.

I heard it from actress Allison Williams via the Here to Make friends podcast. 1st episode recap she threw it out there, she's a fan of the show. Probably seen a bit of plastic surgery in her life. She seemed very sure. It stuck.

Honestly I don't actually think Bryan actually has implants but the idea is Hilarious to me.

Like, maybe that's why we don't ever see Bryan hanging out with Copper the dog because Copper keeps trying to chew his cheek like a dog toy. Woof.

[waving feather]

2 hours ago, Refresh said:

Like, maybe that's why we don't ever see Bryan hanging out with Copper the dog because Copper keeps trying to chew his cheek like a dog toy. Woof.

LOL! Poor Rachel would have to compete with her dog to get to Bryan's face. Imagine them sleeping in bed together in the morning, being woken up by Copper on top of Bryan chewing his cheeks.

Sorry, I just find the whole cheeks implant thing hilarious. Heh.

[DEL901]

I can't believe any of the men, but most especially Peter who met Copper before, didn't bring a dog toy along with the flowers.

[ljenkins782]

15 hours ago, Canada said:

The word uppity can be used for people of any colour.  This notion that it's only used towards black people is just biased BS.

Of course it CAN be used on people of any color, it just has a different connotation, based on a very real history, when used in reference to a black person.   That's true of most loaded terms or pejorative descriptors, they can have different meanings when applied to certain groups. 

That being said, it wasn't the word used by the original poster and I don't think it was the intent either. 

Quote

Well there goes that theory. But I still wonder who started this rumor? Because it does not look like he has cheek implants. Just a family trait. Like Peter's gap teeth.

Bryan's cheeks really don't stand out that much to me. I just saw Benjamin Bratt on an episode of Modern Family, if you want to see some serious cheeks, look at that guy! Like Bryan, he's also of South American descent. 

[Chick2Chic]

3 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

Bryan's cheeks really don't stand out that much to me.

During earlier eps of the show, his cheeks looked chubby in a weird way to me but looking at this headshot pic that just floated across my twitter timeline, they don't look as puffy (though that could also be surgery settling in if that's the case). It's not something I paid attention to with him, TBH, after the first couple of eps. 

 

3 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

Like Bryan, he's also of South American descent. 

There's no set phenotype throughout the continent, IMO. IIRC, Benjamin Bratt's mother is indigenous Quechua (Peru) and Bryan is of Colombian descent.  I don't recall BB having big cheeks though when I watched him on Law & Order back in the day. Who knows now, though.

[alannaofdoom]

On 7/26/2017 at 11:14 AM, Catronia said:

The back and forth about Bryan (me, not a fan) reminds me of a line from Into the Woods:

PRINCE CHARMING: I said I was charming, I never said I was sincere.

Well now I'm imagining Bryan belting it out: "Agony! Far more painful than yours..." 

[JudyObscure]

Just another guy with cheekbone implants, but Not from Miami.

[Ohwell]

Wow, now we're bringing Abraham Lincoln into it.

I think it's one thing to have high cheekbones (which I find attractive, like with Benjamin Bratt) but it's another thing to have chubby high cheekbones like Bryan's that I don't find attractive.  However, depending on the angle of his face, sometimes it's not as pronounced. 

[chocolatine]

My problem with Bryan's cheekbones/implants is that they don't go with the rest of his face. Benjamin Bratt's and Abraham Lincoln's faces are/were all angles. Bryan's face looks like a soft oval with the cheeks looking prosthetic, kind of like Angelina Jolie's in Maleficent.

[SnapeCharmer]

Re: Cheek implants from Miami to Abe Lincoln

[comosedice]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Just another guy with cheekbone implants, but Not from Miami.

The resemblance is striking. Miami Cheeks wishes. Poor, old, dead Abe being dragged into this. SMH.

[Ohwell]

19 minutes ago, comosedice said:

Poor, old, dead Abe being dragged into this. SMH.

Yes, for real.

[slade3]

21 hours ago, Siggystardust said:

Re: Uppity

I've learned a long time ago to not engage with anyone I suspect is unwilling to empathize, understand or at minimum open themselves to another point of view on issues dealing with race. I felt the same way about that comment as Chick2Chic, but I  knew addressing it was futile. Especially as a Black woman. The minute you reveal that you are indeed a Black woman and that - that A. B. C. action was offensive, the walls of resistance goes up from those who are unable and unwilling to consider the message due to the messenger. Dr. Joy Degruy can explain inherent bias, coded language and living while Black (woman) better than I. So here goes:

I guarantee if Dr. DeGruy had called that woman out before her sister-in-law did, the outcome would have been very different.

Thanks for posting this video. My husband is white and we've embarrassed several white cashiers for doing similar stuff to us. Rude white cashiers become flustered when they realize they've behaved badly while another white person is watching.

O/T but I hate the word uppity. It's usually followed by the "n" word when referring to Black people.

It's also not surprising that Rachel's parents might be considered "snobby" and "uptight" by some since most Black people who aren't shuckin' and jivin' are considered "snobby" and "uptight". This is the world educated Black people have always lived in. I wear my perceived "snobbery" like a badge and I hope Rachel's family does, too.

[dleighg]

yes thanks for that video. It illustrates a lot, and gives a new perspective to the term "white privilege" which is often made fun of as "just bitching."

[violet and green]

On cheekgate: To me, it's classic "pillowface" from injectables, not actual cheek implants. They've deflated, lately...

[Kira53]

Absolutely injectables!  I had noticed the recent deflation.  I assume that he had gotten got too much "enhancement" and had it done too close to the season.  It doesn't even look like high cheekbones.

[rebel2u]

On 7/26/2017 at 8:48 PM, Siggystardust said:

Re: Uppity

I've learned a long time ago to not engage with anyone I suspect is unwilling to empathize, understand or at minimum open themselves to another point of view on issues dealing with race. I felt the same way about that comment as Chick2Chic, but I  knew addressing it was futile. Especially as a Black woman. The minute you reveal that you are indeed a Black woman and that - that A. B. C. action was offensive, the walls of resistance goes up from those who are unable and unwilling to consider the message due to the messenger. Dr. Joy Degruy can explain inherent bias, coded language and living while Black (woman) better than I. So here goes:

 

I guarantee if Dr. DeGruy had called that woman out before her sister-in-law did, the outcome would have been very different.

Please, can we get back to talking about The Bachelorette and True Love? 

[SnapeCharmer]

34 minutes ago, rebel2u said:

Please, can we get back to talking about The Bachelorette and True Love? 

Why are you quoting me then? Anyway. You're late, the discussion moved on a long time ago. 

[rebel2u]

It was commented on an hour and a half before I posted.

 

Anyway, that's my opinion. . .

[SnapeCharmer]

1 minute ago, rebel2u said:

It was commented on an hour and a half before I posted.

 

Anyway, that's my opinion. . .

And that was mine, hours ago. Next time you may exercise your right to ignore my posts that you do not like and I'll do the same to yours.

[ladle]

On 7/24/2017 at 10:04 PM, truthaboutluv said:

Did they show Bryan's overnight date? Did I black out and forget it or did it not get shown in the episode? 

Did they show Peter's??