The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[Vaysh]

Jana threw a tea party, it is said to be recent. There's  couple of pictures.

https://www.facebook...669035256563460

 

Haha, I was actually excited to read that sentence! I was all Oh, Jana threw a party! Jana has actual friends?! Yay!

 

...and then I clicked the link and saw she was just doing what she does every day, with the same kids, only with added funny hats. Oh Jana...

[kelslamu]

I never understand how these people see mechelle as any type of role model.  Unless, that is, you are looking for how to have a slew of kids and still be all about yourself.  I question if most of those produggar posters have ever really watched the show.  I don't think Jana has any idea of what life can be.  If she does, I feel even more bad for her.  

[springtime]

I looked at the picture and it must have been the wrong one, because all I saw was a slew of little kids.  I thought high tea would be someplace special for Jana, not some nonsense for the kiddies.  I'm not going to take Jana with me the next time I go for tea with the Queen if she doesn't straighten up.

Poor Jana- wish she had a nice group of peers to have tea or coffee with!

BTW- When did rice and beans become tea party foods? lol

Edited June 16, 2015 by springtime

[GEML]

I think a lot of people who are pro Duggar on impulse come from severely dysfunctional homes, where their own mother and/or father was not only just sort of absent, but perhaps outright abusive or completely unstable. They see a mother who smiles a lot, and does fun things with her children, and a father who jokes with the family and children who willingly gather around for Bible time and tell the audience, "there's always someone to play with."

If you came from a home where none of those things happened, that's a nice home.

It's only when you peel back the layers of the Duggar home that you see they have their own problems, and depending on what the starting point of the person watching- they may STILL look like a pretty nice family. There are a lot of hurting people out there.

[Churchhoney]

I never understand how these people see mechelle as any type of role model.  Unless, that is, you are looking for how to have a slew of kids and still be all about yourself.  I question if most of those produggar posters have ever really watched the show.  I don't think Jana has any idea of what life can be.  If she does, I feel even more bad for her.  

 

I think a lot of times we see what we're hoping to see. I'm sure to a lot of people the idea of a huge home where everybody's comfortable and happy and there are lots of people to socialize with is a cherished dream, and the show presents just enough of that that some viewers can see only that and not even notice the rest.

[GeeGolly]

Hmm, I think many viewers watch the show to get a peak into another family's life. I'm not sure everyone thinks it is all or nothing; a perfect family or a failure of a family.

 

I also think the tea party was cute. When my daughter was little she always loved to do 'grown-up' activities. If the party was solely for publicity, i hope that was lost on the little ones. 

[kokapetl]

It's pretty easy for viewers to ignore the parts of the show they don't want to hear or see. When Josh or Jill were on screen, I would automatically stop paying attention and start playing with my phone. And to be honest, I think this show was best enjoyed if you had prejudged the family and were viewing for evidence to support your opinion. The little kid antics are entertaining, but the rest of it is a boring show about stultified people doing mundane things.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Kokapetl

[GEML]

I think there are plenty of people who watch for a wide variety of reasons. I was responding to the comment about a poster on FB who wished she could talk to Michelle just once to get advice. That's pretty blind adoration, in my view, but that person typically, I'm betting comes from a home life that likely is pretty consistently alienated from her own parent(s), untaught in building a family of her own, and likely comes from a world where seriously dysfunctional families are the life she knows best.

Under those circumstances, yes, the Duggars DO look good.

[Aja]

From what I understand of the typical woman's experience with Gothardism, Michelle Duggar appears to lead an enviable life indeed, sister-diddling son and all.

[kokapetl]

Michelle has 19 kids, and they range from happy, to sullen, to outgoing, to shy etc. I think this allows viewers to reach any number of conclusions about Michelle's parenting skills.

[GEML]

But none of them are out of control, back talking, sneaking out at night (achoo!) drinking or doing drugs, confronting (on camera) mental illness, etc. Michelle and Jim Bob seem to have a strong affection (cough cough) after thirty years of marriage. To a lot of people who live every day of their lives in domestic chaos, I understand why that's appealing.

[bigskygirl]

But none of them are out of control, back talking, sneaking out at night (achoo!) drinking or doing drugs, confronting (on camera) mental illness, etc. Michelle and Jim Bob seem to have a strong affection (cough cough) after thirty years of marriage. To a lot of people who live every day of their lives in domestic chaos, I understand why that's appealing.

I see your point of view. My family could put the dys in dysfunctional. I used to pretend I was part of the family on shows like The Waltons or Eight is Enough to survive what was going on in my life. I also thought the guys on Emergency or Adam 12 would save me too.

 

I do not know if I would have found the Duggars to be appealing when I was growing up, but I can see why some people do. 

[kokapetl]

I agree, the Duggars appear to be, and probably are, a happy family. That's one of the reasons I enjoy watching their show. The vast majority of them, including the titular Jana, are still inherently appealing, pleasant people, which is why I'd watch the show if it continued.

[Absolom]

"High tea" indeed.  I was expecting something more like what the other older daughters and Michelle had while Jana was sewing bridesmaid dresses for Jill.  Perhaps they asked the younger girls what they wanted for "tea."  It looked cute and a chance to teach some manners perhaps. 

 

I think many people watch TV superficially and on the surface the Duggars can appear to be a fine Christian family.  If you take what is said on the show as truth, then it's easy to be taken in by the glossy appearance.

[Darknight]

But none of them are out of control, back talking, sneaking out at night (achoo!) drinking or doing drugs, confronting (on camera) mental illness, etc. Michelle and Jim Bob seem to have a strong affection (cough cough) after thirty years of marriage. To a lot of people who live every day of their lives in domestic chaos, I understand why that's appealing.

But what's the point in saying this if the Duggar kids can't face the real world? Most kids aren't doing these things anyway. A 25 yo being at home doing nothing with life but raising kids isn't impressive. It's sad! And this is how cults Suck people in. The false image on the outside

[GEML]

My point was if you've been raised in domestic chaos, then even a facade looks pretty good to you.

And again, cults most often draw from college educated young people who have been dealt some chaos, but who have also known some security and fear what life will be like without someone to tell them what to do. Cults don't really want people from truly hardcore dysfunctional backgrounds (just the type to think Michelle is MotY) because that type of person may not be able to fit into the group dynamic and assimilation well enough.

The Duggars have NEVER been about recruiting. It's about making money. And there's been plenty made, going into their pockets, the Bates' pockets, the Kellers' pockets and even some into David Wallers. That's all in some way going back into Gothard's ministries, if not his pockets.

[sometimesy]

Jana now 'appears' to be a single gal posting on social media. Let's keep it up. They are aware of our concerns for her. Now we need her to go on a trip with Jinger and Joy without the children.. for fun and relaxation. We want pics with newspapers (to prove the timeline). Maybe check out photography options for Jinger in NY?

 

C'mon let them go JB, it will save the show, be a great spinoff.

Edited June 16, 2015 by sometimesy

[Cherrio]

I don't think the Gothard type is recruited from higher education campuses. 

  I think its main draw are young men who are stunted educationally, very insecure and have a strong need to feel superior.  The Gothard lifestyle would probably be their only chance at that.

 JB is a perfect example.

[dillpickles]

I don't think the Gothard type is recruited from higher education campuses.

I think its main draw are young men who are stunted educationally, very insecure and have a strong need to feel superior. The Gothard lifestyle would probably be their only chance at that.

JB is a perfect example.

Most of the guys at my college fit that bill to the last dot. ;)

[GEML]

The Bates family have college degrees. As did the Paines. As did the Wallers, I believe (....I'd say it's at least 50/50.

That he doesn't recruit on college campuses has been one of Gothard's biggest defenses when accused of running a cult, by the way.

Edited June 16, 2015 by GEML

[Cherrio]

Most of the guys at my college fit that bill to the last dot. ;)

That is scary.

[Sew Sumi]

"High tea" indeed.  I was expecting something more like what the other older daughters and Michelle had while Jana was sewing bridesmaid dresses for Jill.  Perhaps they asked the younger girls what they wanted for "tea."  It looked cute and a chance to teach some manners perhaps. 

 

I think many people watch TV superficially and on the surface the Duggars can appear to be a fine Christian family.  If you take what is said on the show as truth, then it's easy to be taken in by the glossy appearance.

And let's face it, their core audience is a group of people who do everything based on blind faith. When you read the leghumper comments all over the internet, one is not impressed with their ability to think independently or form cogent thoughts. They TOTALLY buy what the Duggars are selling, hook, line, and sinker. They refuse to even entertain the thought that a person named Bill Gothard even exists. Although his teachings are everywhere in Duggarville, those who are blind cannot, and willfully WILL not see. I am glad that some figured this out with Joshgate, and it must sting for them to finally realize just how badly they misjudged these people. 

 

Appearances, especially that of a "happy" family, can be deceiving. I think there is a lot going on behind those vacant eyes and what I see as often forced smiles. Especially with Jana, whose still waters likely run very deep. 

[Joe Jitsu913]

And let's face it, their core audience is a group of people who do everything based on blind faith. When you read the leghumper comments all over the internet, one is not impressed with their ability to think independently or form cogent thoughts. They TOTALLY buy what the Duggars are selling, hook, line, and sinker. They refuse to even entertain the thought that a person named Bill Gothard even exists. Although his teachings are everywhere in Duggarville, those who are blind cannot, and willfully WILL not see. I am glad that some figured this out with Joshgate, and it must sting for them to finally realize just how badly they misjudged these people.

Appearances, especially that of a "happy" family, can be deceiving. I think there is a lot going on behind those vacant eyes and what I see as often forced smiles. Especially with Jana, whose still waters likely run very deep.

I've known a lot of families like the Duggars within my own church growing up. Perfect, smiling, GODLY families at church on Sundays but behind closed doors there was adultery, abuse, mental illness, fights, lies etc. Reminds me so much of the Duggar facade.

I bet Michelle does a lot of screaming, locks herself away in the master bedroom and cries and leaves Jana with the childcare.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Joe Jitsu913

[Dianaofthehunt]

Ya'll see this?

http://www.inquisitr.com/1913298/jana-duggar-is-done-with-19-kids-and-counting-what-will-she-do-now/

 

I wonder if it's real. If so, at age 25, Jana needs to realize she doesn't have to ASK Jim-Berb for anything. ('Course, it doesn't help that she has no income of her own.)

 

Oh, I hope there's some truth to this!

[bluebonnet]

That article is months old.  The show may still be canceled.  Jana does (did) have income of her own, she was on a reality show.  Whatever she did with her earnings is another issue entirely.  

[Dianaofthehunt]

Oh, dammit. 

All  right, carry on.

[JoanArc]

http://www.inquisitr.com/2178569/19-kids-and-counting-is-josiah-duggar-still-courting-marjorie-jackson/

 

Still dating. Those are phone booths, not confessional booths.

[Darknight]

Not Jana related but cults are kinda like gangs. People join both to feel safe, have a family, and joining is suppose to lead to protection.

[Fuzzysox]

http://www.inquisitr.com/2178569/19-kids-and-counting-is-josiah-duggar-still-courting-marjorie-jackson/

 

Still dating. Those are phone booths, not confessional booths.

LOL me thinks they are in a Catholic church somewhere exploring changing their religion they look like confessional booths to me.

[duggarshow]

One comment was a lady who really wanted to have "just one conversation" with Michelle about her "godly mom wisdom".  How can people look at J'Chelle and Boob and thinks "they might have covered up their sons crimes to prevent him from facing legal consequences for molesting his sisters before going on reality TV but I can't think of better role models for Christian parenting".  WTF? 

 

I look at them and think they held their son accountable for his actions, got counseling for him and his siblings and kept them separated until they felt it was safe to bring them all together again. In the midst of everything going on (at that time and now), they haven't let go of their faith. I don't think they're perfect by any means - none of us are - but one of the things I really admire about them is that they haven't let the opinions of others change them. I'm sure they've heard or read at least some of the negative talk about them, but they persevere in their chosen lifestyle and good for them!!  I'd love to sit and talk with them. I really hope their show continues. 

[Sew Sumi]

I was looking at this last night (originally posted on the duggarfam FB page). I think Marjorie does have a wonky leg/foot. She's 3 for 3 in pictures where we can see it. I can see it looking strange once, but three times? It doesn't seem to hamper her much, or at all. I hope they reveal what happened at some point. 

[JoanArc]

LOL me thinks they are in a Catholic church somewhere exploring changing their religion they look like confessional booths to me.

There's a phone behind Joshiah. Also, confessional don't have glass windows on the doors. I would support a 'Si becomes Catholic' TV show.

[GEML]

I really wish I thought they got Josh and the daughters counseling.  But I don't think they did, or if they did, it was only because it was mandated by law and they did the barest minimum possible.  And I say that as someone who generally likes them.

[Fuzzysox]

There's a phone behind Joshiah. Also, confessional don't have glass windows on the doors. I would support a 'Si becomes Catholic' TV show.

I'm joking of course our confessionals look close to that but not exact but I do love your idea of a Si reality show!

[JoanArc]

I'm joking of course our confessionals look close to that but not exact but I do love your idea of a Si reality show!

19 Sacraments and Counting!

[Fuzzysox]

19 Sacraments and Counting!

Yessssssss!

[Fosca]

I look at them and think they held their son accountable for his actions, got counseling for him and his siblings and kept them separated until they felt it was safe to bring them all together again.

 

 

Jim-Bob and Michelle only separated Josh from the rest after being notified of his behavior at least two separate times over the course of nearly two years and learning that he had progressed from molesting two older siblings in their sleep (or reasonable facsimile thereof) to molesting younger children, including a five-year-old sibling, while they were awake and aware and apparently around others.  If they had separated Josh from the rest after the first incident of molestation (or if Josh had only done it once--once is a mistake, thrice is a pattern, what Josh did looks a hell of a lot like a compulsion)  and actually done all you say (I still don't believe they got any counseling from anyone other than perhaps their parents), then I'd be less concerned (not to mention less squicked out).  As is, particularly given the incest joke that Josh made later on, I'm not nearly as confident as you are that he's all better and all is well.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Fosca

[ChocolateAddict]

I look at them and think they held their son accountable for his actions, got counseling for him and his siblings and kept them separated until they felt it was safe to bring them all together again. In the midst of everything going on (at that time and now), they haven't let go of their faith. I don't think they're perfect by any means - none of us are - but one of the things I really admire about them is that they haven't let the opinions of others change them. I'm sure they've heard or read at least some of the negative talk about them, but they persevere in their chosen lifestyle and good for them!!  I'd love to sit and talk with them. I really hope their show continues. 

For me accountability = facing consequences.  Josh was sent away for 3 months, big deal.  He was not reported to authorities and faced no real consequences for his actions.  When he was 18, he and JB refused to allow him to be interviewed by the police which reinforces how they didn't want law enforcement (read: the people who are paid to deal with felonies like the ones that Josh committed) to be involved.  

And I would take the "counselling" with a grain of salt.  As in, a boxful of salt.  First it was "we got Josh counselling" then it was "well actually we sent him to a camp" and then it was "not as much a camp as working with a friend for three months".  I don't believe that they would have been to qualified non-Gothard counselors because they wouldn't want to run the risk that the counselor might involve the police or Family Services.  Throughout this whole process it has been Josh, Josh, Josh, Josh, Josh so I don't see them getting long-term intensive counselling for the girls. I also can't see Boob paying for it.  

With the "felt it was safe to bring them back together" - that was an unqualified position for them to take.  Josh had not been assessed by a qualified, specialized counselor who would have made a risk assessment and worked with the family to institute real changes.  The "safeguards" were nothing sort of pathetic and pretty much every qualified person consulted about this has said the same.  The girls shouldn't have been locked in their room for a start.  They also treated all their boys like potential molesters - not allowing them to be alone with their sisters, not allowing them to have their baby sisters on their laps and essentially separating them.  They didn't address the real questions about why one of their children may have molested the others, what environmental pressures may have contributed to that and looking forward, the best way to ensure that everyone feels safe without resorting to arbitrary rules about hide-and-seek and locking the kids in different rooms.  

And as for "they haven't let the opinions of others change them", I think it is pretty clear that they have.  Look at 14 Kids and Counting - prairie dresses, certainly no iPhone 6s, MacBooks or fancy clothes.  To appeal better to their audience, they changed plenty of things in that house.  They realized that people thought that they were backwards and cult-like so they changed to keep their show.  In particular, Boob used to be a lot more outspoken about abortion, death penalty, etc., before the TV show when he realized that if he wanted the TLC cash, he was going to have to turn down the political shouting.  Boob and J'Chelle realized that people were put off by the throwback-to-the-olden-days style dresses because it looked cult-like and so the girls started wearing more modern clothing with maxi skirts and tee-shirts. There have been plenty of FU internet moments where they changed their behaviour or added something to their lives to prove something to their naysayers.  Plus there have been plenty of charity stunts, the one a few months back where they showed up to the store to give away food and ended up taking it all back.  Ditto the one where Josh and Anna showed up to the women's shelter with a massive and useless teddy bear, looks good on camera but isn't good for anything else.  

"They held onto their faith" - I'm not a Christian (disclaimer!) but I have done a lot of study into Christianity, so this is my read on the situation.  It is one thing to believe something and it is another thing to act it out in real life.  I'm more than willing to accept that they believe in Christ's love with all their heart, etc., etc. but I don't believe that they have lived these principles out.  First up, they didn't have Josh reported to the authorities (Romans 13) and didn't obey the law of the land.  They certainly don't love all people (John 13:34) and they definitely judge others (Luke 6:37).  I would argue that they are like the hypocrites in Matthew 6:5 who put more emphasis on outward displays of Christianity rather than personal.  They don't do a whole lot of Bible reading and praying, mostly they seem to just talk about how they read the Bible and pray. And quite frankly I am prepared to use their own standards against them and judge them by their own words as per Matthew 7:2 "For with the judgement you pronounce you will be judged and with the measure you use it will be measured against you".  I know that this passage relates to God's judgement but it is a principle that the Duggar's aren't recognizing now.  This "liberal media smear" is actually about calling them out for their hypocrisy and secrecy (remember the robo-calls?) rather than persecuting a poor innocent family.  I could go on about the religion side but I'll leave it for now.  

By all means they can persevere with their lifestyle - they can knock themselves out with that one.  But I cannot accept that after this they can be held up as models for good parenting or Christian life.  

(Mods, if the religion side of my post is too much Bible talk, I'll move it to the Religion thread)

Edited June 17, 2015 by ChocolateAddict

[Ilovemylabs]

I've known a lot of families like the Duggars within my own church growing up. Perfect, smiling, GODLY families at church on Sundays but behind closed doors there was adultery, abuse, mental illness, fights, lies etc. Reminds me so much of the Duggar facade.

I bet Michelle does a lot of screaming, locks herself away in the master bedroom and cries and leaves Jana with the childcare.

And I have known many church families who are Godly and their lives are OK.  Sure they have troubles like illness, unemployment, etc., but their kids turn out OK and they are happy people whose faith sustains them through the difficulties of life.

[CofCinci]

If she's still around, the show must be as well.

[becca3891]

I can't believe I'm the first one to mention that Marjorie is wearing one of those maxi length patterned striped cotton skirts in that latest picture! I think it's all over for her pants wearing days and her college graphic arts classes. :( I think the fact that the Duggars are starting to post on social media again indicates that the storm has passed over and TLC may yet be giving them a chance. At least, a spinoff for the married/courting couples.

 

They really do remind me of theater kids. I've never been sure about the theories that he's gay -- because there are plenty of straight guys who are into theater and fashion rather than sports and hunting -- but either way, the Gothard world is not the place for guys like Josiah, so I feel bad for him.

[silversage]

In that video clip they were standing under a chalkboard picture of wedding bells.

[Churchhoney]

I doubt they were in DC,  but the phone booths in some congressional office buildings looked just like that. I'm sure those are phone booths, not confessionals. They yanked the phones out of most of the Capitol Hill ones years and years ago. But at least some of the booths stayed after the phones were removed -- they provided a private place where you might use your cellphone or whatever, and they were sleek -- if old-fashioned looking -- wood, to go with the marble halls.. I think they're in in old phone booths in some public building in Little Rock. Maybe Josiah's contemplating a run for the legislature. lol

[GEML]

I think that there is a show too. Maybe down scaled a little, more half hours instead of two hour long extravaganzas, but I think there's a show.

[anony mouse]

Maxi skirts are trendy right now, particularly the striped/chevron ones. I don't think seeing her wear one is an automatic death knell for pants.

[GEML]

I will go further and say that I've known families that were in terrible distress, but coming to God and a Christian life turned that family around. It does sometimes happen, you know! :)

[doodlebug]

I think shipping them off to maybe Cleveland would be adequate. There's almost nothing going on but it would still be way more than they're used to and it would provide culture shock but cushioned by the presence of hordes of middle Americans who are almost exactly like their families except with Yankee accents.

 

They could call the show "Duggar Tots in Cleveland." And have Betty White introduce each episode as a grandmotherly figure in a revival of her Golden Girls character, Rose.

I live in Cleveland, we don't want them either. They'd be lost here, too. Don't know where you heard 'there's almost nothing going on' here, time have changed for the better 'round here.  The Duggars are southerners, not Midwesterners and Cleveland has a lot more diversity than the Duggars would like.  They seem to only want to mix with other white Protestant fundamentalists.  Cleveland is filled with Catholics, Muslims, Hindus and nonreligious types of all races, too.  They Duggars couldn't walk down the streets here without being exposed to people of all races and cultures, not at all 'exactly like their families'.  We've got a few conservative fundies, but not many. And quite a few of those (homeschoolers, no pants on women, no birth control) in these parts are Roman Catholics which would cause the Duggars to head straight to the prayer closet in fear.I'm always amazed that there are still so many New Yorkers who are so unaware of the rest of the country. It's not the wilderness out here in flyover country, you oughta visit sometime and see for yourself.

 

As far as Marjorie's skirt, there are racks and racks of skirts just like hers at Target and Kohl and everywhere else.  I've got a couple myself. Very comfortable. I'm not ready to give up on her yet.

Edited June 18, 2015 by doodlebug

[Aja]

I know people who strive every day to live their lives in accordance with the Bible, and I find it admirable and beautiful. I wonder if the Duggars can conceive of a God they don't have to be mortally terrified of.

[galax-arena]

I would argue that they are like the hypocrites in Matthew 6:5 who put more emphasis on outward displays of Christianity rather than personal. 

They wouldn't be all that unusual in that regard. One survey result carried out by the Barna Group indicated that for a good number of Christians, their number one priority is the appearance of seeming right and abstaining from sin. This was in conjunction with a book I read by a conservative Christian author about why people leave the evangelical church (which I've referenced on the forum multiple times, so apologies if anyone's getting tired of hearing about it, haha; but it was a very cathartic/validating read for me!). The point was made that they care more that other people see them as pure Christian warriors, to the extent that they will prioritize calling out and judging sin over exercising compassion, and that that drives people away. Of course, the common rebuttal here is that calling out sin is exercising compassion because it would be unloving to not let people know how much God disapproves. Sigh.

 

And sure, I know several Christians whose faith I admire greatly. But I notice that the Christians I admire aren't the ones who insist on shoving their beliefs down everyone's throats and go around with their noses in the air, believing that they're so much better than everyone else. I don't trust the ones who make a point of constantly emphasizing what great Christians they are. Even if they don't have any skeletons in their closet, that's too much pride for my tastes. 

[Happyfatchick]

You know what the Duggars might say about people chasing down scripture verses to defend their points? PRAISE THE LORD!!! Our "misfortune" has caused them to consider the Bible!!!