S03.E10: Somebody to Love

[The Wild Sow]

1 hour ago, rur said:

Maybe I'm less creative or insightful than the others here, but I had always thought his last name was a riff on "malevolent".

Whenever the "This show is rated MaLV" disclaimer comes on, I think, "Malvo!"

[benteen]

A messy finale for a mess of a season.  Had its moments to be sure.  I liked that Gloria moved to Homeland Security.  Varga was just gross.  Poor Sy.  Glad Wrench survived at least.

[Macbeth]

That paramilitary moves by security in Emmit's house was impressive.  When I saw it in the commercial I thought Gloria must be trying to kill Emmit.  Nope. They were there just to ensure the transfer of wealth.

My problem with the ending is unique.  The last half hour of the show pays a "homage" to the series finale of Justified.  Raylen gets into a "who is the fasted gun" duel.  Both are shot.  A long moment of prone bodies - are they dead?  In this instance - Raylen comes too (bullet had only grazed his brow.)  Then Justified fast forwards 5 years into the future.  And the moral problem presented is - Will Raylen arrest the convict that got away from him?  There was no ambiguity in this case - the answer was no.

I am just saying - apparently Hawley is a great fan of Justified.

I think the concept of Varga was not well thought of.  He kept trying to woo Emmit with promises of great wealth but who would want to spend anytime in his presence.  I realize that Gordon Geiko's "Greed is good." speech is passe, but there is a reason why it works.  Varga had the wrong packaging.  At the heart of Gordon Geiko lurks a Varga - but you aren't going to entice anyone acting and looking like Varga.  This is a role I can picture James Spader or John Malkovich doing wonders with - if it is written right.

[ThoughtAFool]

5 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

Okay, don't think I'm strange (too late), but when I watched the first season, I kept thinking I've seen Malvo's name before. I play a number of word games.  Lorne Malvo is an anagram for Normal Lover. Don't know if it was purposeful or not.

I find myself thinking of the DC Beltway sniper, Lee Malvo

[LittleIggy]

I didn't like the conclusion. I was hoping at least for Ray Wise to come in and escort Varga to hell. Didn't like Emmitt getting killed either. He wasn't evil.

I knew Nikki wasn't already dead as many people had claimed. Her murder of the innocent trooper shook me. Glad he managed to kill her.

13 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

No, I feel that way too. It wasn't a flashy performance which was right for the brothers. The problem that he had no worthy foil to work against. Varga was just, blah.

Ewan was great as usual.

[Mumbles]

This season was a self-indulgent mess. And that's saying a lot given that last season ended with a damn UFO visit. I liked Gloria fine but I didn't root for her as hard as I did for Molly or Molly's dad/grandad. (And I hated her little sidekick...too much information and the actor really overdid the accent). And the villains were not charismatic like Malvo or Mike or the mother-crime-boss. The violence and crudity of this season also seemed excessive and gratuitous. If there is another season I'm going to wait for good advance reviews or word-of-mouth. The early reviews of this season were tentative but I went along hoping it would pick up speed. There's too much good stuff out there now to waste the time.

[J-Man]

People have pointed out some of the ludicrous plot points, so let me add another: The IRS connection. First of all, the IRS has VERY strict rules about disclosure of tax information. There is no way that agent would be discussing the case he was working on with anyone, irrespective of their law enforcement status. He would be subject to dismissal, and could be sued by the people or firms whose information he disclosed.

Second, he made the point that the transaction he was investigating in and of itself was not illegal, but the fact that taxes had not been paid on the ill-gotten gains made it so. Whether the transaction took place in 2011 or 2012, the no income taxes would've been due until April 15 of 2012 at the earliest. So how could he have known that no taxes were paid? 

[Milburn Stone]

6 hours ago, J-Man said:

People have pointed out some of the ludicrous plot points, so let me add another: The IRS connection. First of all, the IRS has VERY strict rules about disclosure of tax information. There is no way that agent would be discussing the case he was working on with anyone, irrespective of their law enforcement status. He would be subject to dismissal, and could be sued by the people or firms whose information he disclosed.

My impression was that IRS Agent Dollard, having been told by some higher-up to shut down his investigation, was now "going rogue" or simply doing it on his own time. If it's just a bunch of papers on the wall, sent to him by an anonymous benefactor, which he is analyzing in his spare time to satisfy his own curiosity because it is no longer an IRS matter, wouldn't he be exempt from consequences for sharing what he's found?

Just asking, I don't know.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Milburn Stone

[luna1122]

38 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

My impression was that IRS Agent Dollard, having been told by some higher-up to shut down his investigation, was now "going rogue" or simply doing it on his own time. If it's just a bunch of papers on the wall, sent to him by an anonymous benefactor, which he is analyzing in his spare time to satisfy his own curiosity because it is no longer an IRS matter, wouldn't he be exempt from consequences for sharing what he's found?

Just asking, I don't know.

That was also my impression, that, like Gloria, he was doing some investigating on his own. I don't know what the repercussions would be for sharing info there, of course. I must also say that Hamish Linklater rocked that small role.

[SunnyBeBe]

Also, when Emmit's wife left him, believing that he had had sex with the woman in the video, it's likely she would have gone straight to a divorce lawyer in order to get her alimony and share of the property.  So, her lawyers would have asked for immediate information, including copies of financial records.  One more lawyer that Varga would have to have dealt with.  (Chime in if Emmit made her a settlement offer that I didn't see.  There were some portions I missed due to nodding off.) 

[Nancypants]

13 hours ago, rur said:

Maybe I'm less creative or insightful than the others here, but I had always thought his last name was a riff on "malevolent".

Malvo was the Last name of the D.C. sniper

[ChipBach]

On 6/21/2017 at 11:43 PM, luna1122 said:

I agree with his assessment of the politics and the Trump parallels. And I do think the parallels were deliberate. Didn't offend me.

Well...  Since this is been made part of the topic by recappist - I would agree with the current parallels with manufactured facts verses real truth are disseminated by people who believe they represent conventional wisdom.  And a lie repeated often enough by authority is generally accepted by those who embrace the political philosophy of the source.  I disagree that the only creator of fake/false information these days are on the head of one particular political party.  Therein lies the problem stated in the recap, seeing the truth through a particular bias filter and immediately accepting convenient "facts" to support an ideology is indeed a dangerous thing. 

On 6/22/2017 at 0:01 AM, WaltersHair said:

yeah, me too. I must be so desensitized to all the overt politics lately (Handmaid's Tale was just awful in that regard). But this has me stumped.

ETA. I think that's reaching. Trump doesn't lurk in every dark corner or every TV show. But that's my opinion. Why try make that connection?

Well said. 

[luna1122]

24 minutes ago, ChipBach said:

Well...  Since this is been made part of the topic by recappist - I would agree with the current parallels with manufactured facts verses real truth are disseminated by people who believe they represent conventional wisdom.  And a lie repeated often enough by authority is generally accepted by those who embrace the political philosophy of the source.  I disagree that the only creator of fake/false information these days are on the head of one particular political party.  Therein lies the problem stated in the recap, seeing the truth through a particular bias filter and immediately accepting convenient "facts" to support an ideology is indeed a dangerous thing. 

 

The parallels between what I see in the show and real life aren't about fake news/false info. I'd certainly agree that false information comes from everywhere, all sides, all political leanings, at times. I do see, however,  parallels between Varga's character and Trump's. They are not flattering parallels, but I don't believe they are based on manufactured 'facts'.

No, Trump doesn't lurk in every dark corner or every TV show, but he most definitely, IMO, lurked in this one, and that was a very deliberate choice by Hawley, agree with it or like it or not.

[Raja]

On 6/22/2017 at 6:24 AM, withanaich said:

That's what I meant. I thought she was there to make sure Varga (or whomever) didn't escape ... which is why I thought she set him up to attempt just that. Because if anybody was going to abandon the others, it would probably be him.

 

Which is another thing that bugged me about that scene: why didn't he just get off the elevator on the SECOND floor? Does the elevator not stop at the second floor? What was the need for all the James Bond elevator-hatch-escape stuff? And aren't there, like, any STAIRS in that damn building? Shouldn't Nikki and Mr. Wrench have factored in someone trying to escape that way? Maybe Varga should have stationed someone on the stairs in the first place?

When I had a temporary storage locker it was like a contemporary hotel you are limited to what floor you could exit in. While watching I was thinking myself with the way they were acting why not go to another floor and walk down. I do wonder what the fire codes are in self storage lockers.

14 hours ago, Macbeth said:

That paramilitary moves by security in Emmit's house was impressive.  When I saw it in the commercial I thought Gloria must be trying to kill Emmit.  Nope. They were there just to ensure the transfer of wealth.

 

Meemo losing his weapon making him expendable, he was off his game once Mr Wrench showed up. For their tactical movements it was especially strange when the almost all the squad  rode elevators up to the 3rd floor ambush with their backs uncovered all while acting like it was an obvious ambush to be avoided.

[wellread]

While I agree that there are many unsatisfactory loose ends, plotholes and more in Season 3 of Fargo, I don't think Mr. Wrench pursuing Emmit for five years to kill him is one of them.  We remember that Nikki believes that Emmit poisoned Sy and killed his own brother Ray, the man she has come to love.  She thinks Emmit is the big Villain and later tries to recite the Bible verse before killing him, as she was instructed in the "bowling Alley."  So at the end of the scene at the abandoned storage company, when Mr. Wrench asks her if she is happy now that so many are dead, she says that she is not because "the brother", that is Emmit, is still alive.  We have seen the growing bond between Mr. Wrench and Nikki, largely because Nikki treats him with respect, has learned ASL to communicate with him and even  gives him most of the money!  So I find it completely believable that Mr. Wrench would dedicate himself to finishing her mission, that is killing Emmit.  Nikki is probably one of the few people who has treated Mr. Wrench well.

 

What a wonderful conglomeration of shades of truth, misunderstandings, false assumptions and alternative facts Season 3 has been!

[Gobi]

1 hour ago, wellread said:

While I agree that there are many unsatisfactory loose ends, plotholes and more in Season 3 of Fargo, I don't think Mr. Wrench pursuing Emmit for five years to kill him is one of them.  We remember that Nikki believes that Emmit poisoned Sy and killed his own brother Ray, the man she has come to love.  She thinks Emmit is the big Villain and later tries to recite the Bible verse before killing him, as she was instructed in the "bowling Alley."  So at the end of the scene at the abandoned storage company, when Mr. Wrench asks her if she is happy now that so many are dead, she says that she is not because "the brother", that is Emmit, is still alive.  We have seen the growing bond between Mr. Wrench and Nikki, largely because Nikki treats him with respect, has learned ASL to communicate with him and even  gives him most of the money!  So I find it completely believable that Mr. Wrench would dedicate himself to finishing her mission, that is killing Emmit.  Nikki is probably one of the few people who has treated Mr. Wrench well.

 

What a wonderful conglomeration of shades of truth, misunderstandings, false assumptions and alternative facts Season 3 has been!

Agree, but why did it take five years?

[Raja]

9 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Agree, but why did it take five years?

To keep him free for following seasons?

[roughing it]

So many questions still left unanswered.  So the Ray Wise/Paul character in the bowling alley was some type of purgatory director - yea to go up, nay to go down, or back to life to make amends.  But how do you explain his presence with Gloria on the plane and in the bar in California in a previous episode?  Was he a guardian angel protecting her in case the plane went down and in case something bad happened to her in the bar?  This just doesn't make any sense.  Along with much of this season's Fargo.

Gloria's smile at the very end tells me that Varga was dealt with.  Although it would have been sweet to watch the smirk fall from his face.

I too am relieved the season is over.  Hoping for better next time.

[Dowel Jones]

If there is to be following season, I think the coolest thing they could do is revolve all the plotlines off of the bowling alley, and everyone passes in and out according to their destiny.

[MisterBluxom]

9 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

My impression was that IRS Agent Dollard, having been told by some higher-up to shut down his investigation, was now "going rogue" or simply doing it on his own time. If it's just a bunch of papers on the wall, sent to him by an anonymous benefactor, which he is analyzing in his spare time to satisfy his own curiosity because it is no longer an IRS matter, wouldn't he be exempt from consequences for sharing what he's found?

Just asking, I don't know.

I think you are correct insofar as he decided to "go rogue".

But, you know, the shape this country is in today and the direction in which its headed just screams out for more good people to go rogue. That is what we need.  There was a time when people figured they could trust the majority of the population to carry the day by doing the right thing. But today, more and more, I see the only way to right many of the wrongs we face is for individuals to stand up and go rogue on their own.

When they see a wrong that needs to be righted, just like Gloria did, it's a mistake to trust that imbecille assholes like her boss will eventually figure out the right thing to do and do it. There's no hope if people like Gloria sit back and trust her imbecille boss to make things right. She just has to take things upon herself and make them right as a result of her own actions.

Who would you trust in a case like this? Gloria or the New Sherrif? Not much of a choice there.

[AuntiePam]

Hawley & Co. must have had a good reason for making Varga's character so physically repellent.  Has Hawley explained it? 

I'm looking forward to rewatching.  There was a lot of humor and brilliance this season, the little bits and pieces that make the Fargo universe so unique and watchable.  But Varga is a turd in the punch bowl, and I'll probably close my eyes when he's on screen.

[RustbeltWriter]

So Nikki's best trait was strategy and she decides to gun down a state trooper? I'm calling shananigans on that. It seemed like the writers couldn't decide what to do with her so they just slapped a bow on her and called it a day.

[Macbeth]

5 hours ago, roughing it said:

Gloria's smile at the very end tells me that Varga was dealt with.  Although it would have been sweet to watch the smirk fall from his face.

I agree as well.  IMO there is no doubt that she wins in the end.  The light fades on Varga and stays on her.  And Varga is in her house - unable to leave. 

But it is a troubling win, for me.  Because the scene is a callback to the first scene of the season between the prisoner and the Russian interrogator.  Gloria is in the same seat as the interrogator had been in and arguing about what is the truth as he had.  We know from the story that Varga is guilty of the crimes, and that Gloria's truth is the story's truth, but in all of her talk about what would happen next to Varga - nothing is mentioned about a phone call and a right to an attorney.

[AuntiePam]

2 hours ago, Macbeth said:

But it is a troubling win, for me.  Because the scene is a callback to the first scene of the season between the prisoner and the Russian interrogator.  Gloria is in the same seat as the interrogator had been in and arguing about what is the truth as he had.  We know from the story that Varga is guilty of the crimes, and that Gloria's truth is the story's truth, but in all of her talk about what would happen next to Varga - nothing is mentioned about a phone call and a right to an attorney.

[Bolding mine.]  Isn't that because he's not yet under arrest, or being restrained?  I don't think Miranda warnings are required at the onset of questioning. 

[Christina]

It's great to read that some of you really liked this season, because if it was all negative, there may not be another season. I watched this season thinking there would be some payoff eventually, because I enjoyed the first two seasons so much and trusted the storytellers. It is the same reason I didn't give up on this season of The Americans, American Crime, and Broadchurch, which is about to air on BBC America and I will watch it again, because even though I found the season storyline too diluted to be impactful, it is still one of the best shows on television. Perhaps my expectations were just too high. I'm not sure that I'll rewatch this season, and if I do (in hopes of the second viewing being better now that I know the ending), Varga scenes will be fast forwarded because he is disgusting and not at all intriguing or threatening, and one of the reasons I dislike this season so much.

All of the actors are wonderful, and I think that they did the best with the characters and dialog that they could, but the writing just wasn't there. They were probably all excited to get to be in the show, with the prior seasons having overwhelmingly positive reviews with only a few misses. Few people didn't like the entire season, some people didn't like a character or a story line, but most viewers enjoyed the show in large part.

The underlying political storyline this season missed me by a mile, probably because I was so busy trying to figure out where the story was going, and why I wasn't enjoying it. Not one of the characters drew me in, so I didn't care about them. The storylines didn't draw me in, so I didn't care about them. The storyline of people seeing the same facts and reaching different conclusion, and the evil versus good storyline was clear, I just didn't get the comparison to real-world politics.

The quote box disappeared on me, again, but the reason I think the reason the widow Goldfarb was courting an offer to Stussy and Sy was so that her later purchase at rock-bottom prices would look legitimate. Varga was another owner at that point, which I didn't realize until the finale and it was said by IRS Agent Dollard (I kinda zoned out every time Varga was on the screen because he was disgusting), so he wouldn't agree to sell and their plan would ultimately still pay off.

Varga was probably read his rights by the DHS or customs officer that detained him at the airport. They showed him talking to Gloria before she went back to talk to Varga, but I don't remember if there was any mention of him being read his rights.

ETA: Forgot to add that I thought Varga was warned that the IRS had the hard drives by someone at the IRS. In the finale, Agent Dolsaid that he was ordered to end his investigation by a higher-up, who I thought I was supposed to think was involved in the scheme with Varga, and protecting him. I can't say why I would think that when I clearly missed so many connections, but that was my conclusion to the text from "Unknown."

Edited June 24, 2017 by Christina
Added paragraph

[Babalu]

23 hours ago, luna1122 said:

No, Trump doesn't lurk in every dark corner or every TV show, but he most definitely, IMO, lurked in this one, and that was a very deliberate choice by Hawley, agree with it or like it or not.

I didn't really think of this season having a political slant until today, but now I completely agree with you. We didn't watch the finale until last night, and during the last scene, I knew I'd heard part of Varga's speech before but couldn't remember where. This morning, it came to me - it was in a New Yorker article about Robert Mercer, the conservative billionaire who has made huge contributions to the Trump campaign and Breitbart news. Here's what an employee said about him:

Quote

"Bob believes that human beings have no inherent value other than how much money they make. A cat has value, he’s said, because it provides pleasure to humans. But if someone is on welfare they have negative value. If he earns a thousand times more than a schoolteacher, then he’s a thousand times more valuable.”

 link to complete article

I wasn't too happy about the ambiguity of the ending (or about the season as a whole), but now, knowing that Noah Hawley cribbed this from one of the most despicable (IMO) people in the country, the open-endedness makes a lot of sense. We're all in the middle of a very unsettled situation, and it could go either way. Most of us are on the side of the Glorias of this world and want justice to prevail, even though we know life isn't always good or fair. But the Vargas have a lot of power right now, and it is by no means certain they won't continue to enrich themselves by whatever means necessary and tell themselves and us that they're completely justifed doing so. I think this relates to why Varga was so physically repellent and also why many of his pronouncements sounded deep and thoughtful but actually made no sense at all.

[Macbeth]

13 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

[Bolding mine.]  Isn't that because he's not yet under arrest, or being restrained?  I don't think Miranda warnings are required at the onset of questioning. 

Well he didn't have a choice to be there, for me that's clear.  He could have used a phone call to call an attorney, but the similarity to the first scene - leads me not to believe it.

 

1 hour ago, Babalu said:

I didn't really think of this season having a political slant until today, but now I completely agree with you. We didn't watch the finale until last night, and during the last scene, I knew I'd heard part of Varga's speech before but couldn't remember where. This morning, it came to me - it was in a New Yorker article about Robert Mercer, the conservative billionaire who has made huge contributions to the Trump campaign and Breitbart news.

 

Thank you for the link Babalu.  Given that this took place soon after the crash - I couldn't help but to see the politics.  But I didn't equate Varga with Trump.  He reminded me of something that has been around longer and much more sinister.  The fact that he had easy access to phones and computers, but the rooms themselves weren't bugged, I equated Varga with NSA.  IMO

Besides Ewan had stated in an article that he was trying to channel Trump into his character.  I love Ewan, but after reading that article, I wanted to pat him on his head and tell him -"You are a very good actor, but this is beyond your capabilities as an actor." 

Edited June 24, 2017 by Macbeth

[Babalu]

1 hour ago, Macbeth said:

But I didn't equate Varga with Trump.  He reminded me of something that has been around longer and much more sinister.

I don't think Varga = Trump, but I do think he at least partly represents the Trump/Bannon/Mercer/Koch/Adelson/etc. mind set, which is having so much influence on our political system right now.

[lidarose9]

Agree that this was not a strong season, with a disappointing conclusion. In addition to a whole slew of other reasons, I found Gloria Burgle to be a cardboard cut-out impression of the Fargo stock character Sensible Female Police. The writing was OK but the actress blew it. Her deadpan delivery was too lifeless. There is a very subtle but important difference between the understated delivery of past versions and this one. I was pulling for her, of course, but in many scenes, her line reading was off. The best thing about her was the friendship with her pal Winnie. 

I also grew to care about Nikki, but nobody and I mean nobody could get the shit kicked out of them like she did, then get bashed up in a bus accident, then get out and run like hell for miles across late winter Minnesota woods. 

Edited June 24, 2017 by lidarose9

[festivus]

Very unsatisfying. So the only one to come out of this unscathed was the widow Goldfarb.  I enjoyed Nikki and Mr. Wrench, the episode about the robot, some of Sy's lines and not much else. 4/10.

 

ETA: Oh, I did love the music as I always do. Bump to a five. 

Edited June 24, 2017 by festivus

[Stratego]

The ending:  I think most people wanted a definite ending--simple, straight-forward, and (according to their tastes) happy.  But the entire season was based on one's perspective:  Varga = bad and must be defeated by Gloria = good yet the outcome of the show (good or bad) is like the outcome of the election--based on one's perspective and tastes.  The writer's were trying to show that by ambiguity of Varga's fate.  The fate of others was like anvils falling from the sky--too contrived and final--and not ambiguous like Varga's fate.  I think the writer used too many characters to tell his story given there was only ten episodes. It needed to be like 24 and have that many episodes in order to "do things right".

 

Oh, and I claim the "Attaboy" for calling the connection between Varga and Mrs, Goldfarb.

[bosawks]

Man, when Nikki shot the state trooper I couldn't help but think of Lou with those distinctive uniforms.

I think this season was darker but I still really appreciate the fact that this show burrows it's way into my consciousness and has me consider things such as truth, perspective, morality and weakness.

I want a season 4, dammit!

[annzeepark914]

1 hour ago, bosawks said:

Man, when Nikki shot the state trooper I couldn't help but think of Lou with those distinctive uniforms.

 

I agree with you re: the shooting of the state trooper.  Re: a season 4?  I'm not so sure any more how I feel about that.  Maybe if they got back to a story similar to the movie I'd be interested (e.g., some murders, some decent police action, some good ol' Minnesota indignation with a few "characters" thrown in).

[shapeshifter]

On June 22, 2017 at 11:53 PM, LittleIggy said:

I didn't like the conclusion. I was hoping at least for Ray Wise to come in and escort Varga to hell.…

Your words inspire me to believe that Ray Wise's character is waiting in the wings to escort Varga over The River Styx.

 

On June 24, 2017 at 0:53 PM, Macbeth said:

…Given that this took place soon after the crash - I couldn't help but to see the politics.  But I didn't equate Varga with Trump.  He reminded me of something that has been around longer and much more sinister.  The fact that he had easy access to phones and computers, but the rooms themselves weren't bugged, I equated Varga with NSA.  IMO

Besides Ewan had stated in an article that he was trying to channel Trump into his character.  I love Ewan, but after reading that article, I wanted to pat him on his head and tell him -"You are a very good actor, but this is beyond your capabilities as an actor." 

I read somewhere that Varga represented the darkest sides of capitalism: Greedily devouring everything in its path and then spewing out polluted waste. I think to a lesser degree Varga also represents Trump, but I hadn't considered that Emmit was a type of Trump, except for maybe his character being perhaps the wealthiest in his town and having the biggest mansion in town — and maybe also Emmit being the unwitting pawn of sinister, bigger, more powerful, and more clever forces.

Edited June 26, 2017 by shapeshifter
Clarity

[KaleyFirefly]

On 6/22/2017 at 3:10 AM, Bannon said:

If someone is upset by what they read, then it was offensive. 

Then I guess, by your "logic", we can never have anything on the internet that might upset anyone. Let's just have pictures of flowers and bunnies. And no one would ever be allowed to express their opinions, ever. Is that the kind of world you want to live in? I don't.

[Ottis]

Took a few days to think about the final ep, and decided I hated it. It was a cop out, and made me feel like I wasted my time this season.

The evil of Varga was never fully realized. The courage of Gloria, the same. There was the usual collateral damage that made me sad ... poor state trooper.  Ray Wise and his role had no closure. Neither did the bowling alley. Nikki shooting the cop made no sense.

It's not that I'm uncomfortable with "make your own endings." I like them, generally, and even came around on The Sopranos. But this ep was a huge letdown and I don't see redemption unless the next season picks up the same threads.

Boo.

[Bannon]

11 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

Then I guess, by your "logic", we can never have anything on the internet that might upset anyone. Let's just have pictures of flowers and bunnies. And no one would ever be allowed to express their opinions, ever. Is that the kind of world you want to live in? I don't.

Er, it is you who is logically challenged. In no place did I assert or imply that upsetting people is to be avoided. The assertion was made that the term "offensive" was not being employed correctly. That assertion was false, which I demonstrated. I have no problem with writers on this site posting articles which readers find offensive, and I have no problem with readers stating why they think it is offensive. 

[KaleyFirefly]

18 hours ago, Bannon said:

Er, it is you who is logically challenged. In no place did I assert or imply that upsetting people is to be avoided. The assertion was made that the term "offensive" was not being employed correctly. That assertion was false, which I demonstrated. I have no problem with writers on this site posting articles which readers find offensive, and I have no problem with readers stating why they think it is offensive. 

As long as there's free speech, it's all good.

[Kiddvideo]

I guess the ending makes sense if we carry current events through. Varga (Trump) feels this will end no differently than other times he's been challenged because he always comes out the victor. Sure, sometimes he takes a hit but that's just the cost of doing business, glancing blows at the end of the day. Gloria represents people who feel he broke laws, and they both -- just like billions of us around the world -- are waiting to see how it ends.

I still didn't care for it that much even with the teacher's version. Reality is all too real already, and in my reality I don't have to watch people using the bathroom. I win! :-)

[polyhymnia]

On 6/24/2017 at 0:53 PM, Macbeth said:

Thank you for the link Babalu.  Given that this took place soon after the crash - I couldn't help but to see the politics.  But I didn't equate Varga with Trump.  He reminded me of something that has been around longer and much more sinister.  The fact that he had easy access to phones and computers, but the rooms themselves weren't bugged, I equated Varga with NSA.  IMO

Besides Ewan had stated in an article that he was trying to channel Trump into his character.  I love Ewan, but after reading that article, I wanted to pat him on his head and tell him -"You are a very good actor, but this is beyond your capabilities as an actor." 

I agree - I think Varga represented something more shadowy and cannibalistic and said something more about economics than politics (or specifically Trump) but I thought the political take in the review interesting.

I think this was an interesting season.  I hated the ending at first but I actually don't mind endings that leave things up in the air (or open to your interpretation) so it is growing on me.  However, I just convinced Mr. Poly to watch the first season of Fargo and he didn't like how that concluded so I probably am not going to encourage him to watch this season.  Although everyone needs to see Season 2.  It is amazing.

[becauseIsaidso]

As much as I wanted Nikki to make it and, perhaps, go on in partnership with Wrench (as they did seem to have a mutual respect for each other), I knew she had to go - sort of a moral imperative, that, even though she had shown some redeeming qualities, she still had to answer for what went before...Just as in the same vein, I believe that Varga DID go off to punishment richly deserved...Gloria never seemed to want fame, recognition or any of the trappings of celebrity - all she wanted was to do what was right, to make life a bit better...whereas Varga never wanted anything other than to fuck over/abominably use any and every one while never displaying any sort of human feeling, compassion, or remorse - he was nothing and deserved nothing in return - a lifetime forgotten in a cold, dark cell, in a cold, dark, place is exactly the ticket for him - especially with his bulimia. I like that Gloria moved up from little cop shop to bigger cop shop, to the really big cop shop of DHS, and perhaps could go on even further. To her, being able to do what was right seemed to be what her ethos was all about. 

In the Peter and the Wolf analogy, was Nikki the cat? I forget, but think that would be entirely appropriate, given that Ray mewed his way into the next plane - hope they're together, playing kitty bridge - or whatever. I did like that Emmet got offed in the end by Wrench (who apparently had not only the good sense to bide his time, but also the sense of loyalty to try and do for Nikki what she couldn't manage to do for herself - timing IS everything!)- Emmet is what comes to mind as the exemplification of the adage that the only thing necessary for evil to  prevail is for good men to do nothing - or to waffle about protecting their own backsides. He had the potential, the resources and the ability to do the good, right, thing - and he failed. He could have said 'no', but he didn't - just as he could have been honest/compassionate/an actual brother to Ray decades ago in the whole stamp/corvette con, but wasn't. And a whole lotta people suffered because of it.

Actually, when all is said and done, it's just too damn bad 'Ennis' didn't keep his real name - if he had, none of it would have gone down the way it did. 

Liked this season not going BAM-between-your-eyes overt in the message, and perhaps more enjoyable for me because of the subtlety- so I'll be back for more if they (hopefully) keep this up.

Edited June 29, 2017 by becauseIsaidso
because to my DH, misspelling 'Corvette' is an abomination

[MisterBluxom]

I'm hoping someone may be able to help me with something that is mystifying me.

Around the 44 minute mark of this episode, Gloria and Varga are sitting down and trading strange remarks.

Gloria says words to the effect, "six people dead including a state trooper and 200 million dollars missing and you with ... "

I can't make out the rest of what she says. It sounds something like this:

"you at the center of the morass" ... or ...

"you with a hardrive up your ass"

 

I don't know why I didn't stumble over that before. But it seems to me that what she's saying just might be important. I've listened to it over and over but I just can't figure it out.

Does anyone know what she said? Can you tell me what it is? I'm hoping it may just shed some light on what actually happens at the end. Although I suppose I have to doubt it - this being Fargo and all.

 

One other matter that I just caught when re-watching this episode. At that same meeting, Gloria tells Varga what is going to happen and she makes a reference to her and her son going to some fair the next day and she talks about  how she will be in the "Amber waves of grain."  The first time I watched this episode, I knew that sounded familiar. I knew I had heard it before. But I just now realized that it wasn't in this show. It was in this season of The Americans. Is there any possibility the show runners of these two shows actually talked to each other and there is some possible connection between the two shows? I know it's extremely doubtful. But when it comes to Fargo, you just never know.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

I'm hoping someone may be able to help me with something that is mystifying me.

Around the 44 minute mark of this episode, Gloria and Varga are sitting down and trading strange remarks.

Gloria says words to the effect, "six people dead including a state trooper and 200 million dollars missing and you with ... "

I can't make out the rest of what she says. It sounds something like this:

"you at the center of the morass" ... or ....

 

…One other matter that I just caught when re-watching this episode. At that same meeting, Gloria tells Varga what is going to happen and she makes a reference to her and her son going to some fair the next day and she talks about  how she will be in the "Amber waves of grain."  The first time I watched this episode, I knew that sounded familiar. I knew I had heard it before. But I just now realized that it wasn't in this show. It was in this season of The Americans. Is there any possibility the show runners of these two shows actually talked to each other and there is some possible connection between the two shows? I know it's extremely doubtful. But when it comes to Fargo, you just never know.

Gloria says:

"Six people dead including a state trooper and 200 million dollars missing. Those are facts. And you at the center of the morass."

 

Just in case you did not grow up in the American public school system, "amber waves of grain" is the second line of what is the defacto alternate US national anthem, "America the Beautiful" (see more here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_the_Beautiful), so I guess it's just coincidental that the line found its way into the two shows this season.

[MisterBluxom]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Gloria says:

"Six people dead including a state trooper and 200 million dollars missing. Those are facts. And you at the center of the morass."

 

Just in case you did not grow up in the American public school system, "amber waves of grain" is the second line of what is the defacto alternate US national anthem, "America the Beautiful" (see more here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_the_Beautiful), so I guess it's just coincidental that the line found its way into the two shows this season.

Thanks very much ShapeShifter.

[MisterBluxom]

ShapeShifter,

You are correct when you say I didn't grow up in the American public school system. I went to schools in an English speaking country but not the USA.

BTW, I didn't think that "And you at the center of the morass" rang true for Gloria. I didn't think she would use the word "morass" when speaking to someone about her work. It wasn't any kind of serious problem. But, it was somewhat out of place.

I would also like to say that it's been a real pleasure to interact with you this season. IMHO, you are one of the better posters here and I've always enjoyed reading your opinions. If there is another season, I will look forward to reading what you have to say next season.

[Raja]

57 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

ShapeShifter,

You are correct when you say I didn't grow up in the American public school system. I went to schools in an English speaking country but not the USA.

BTW, I didn't think that "And you at the center of the morass" rang true for Gloria. I didn't think she would use the word "morass" when speaking to someone about her work. It wasn't any kind of serious problem. But, it was somewhat out of place.

I would also like to say that it's been a real pleasure to interact with you this season. IMHO, you are one of the better posters here and I've always enjoyed reading your opinions. If there is another season, I will look forward to reading what you have to say next season.

The entire Fargo franchise is full of that specific regional accents and expressions that sound off to the rest of the American public also, it is just one of the quirks of the show.

[MisterBluxom]

On 2017-06-22 at 8:27 AM, luna1122 said:

Pretty much anything is offensive to someone somewhere.

I also wondered, of course, how come Emmit's car started when it wouldn't before, and  how Varga got himself out of the elevator, and  who sent him the text. Russians? Aliens?  I'm still uncertain aliens aren't involved. Or Ray Wise, from a netherworld.

I am fairly alone in thinking Ewan is a good to great actor, apparently, and I felt he was so here.  He sold both roles for me. It's hard to feel empathic for men like Ray or Emmit, but I did, alternately, at different stages and times. I can't say I was sad to see either of them die, they were both shitty people, but I wasn't happy to see it either. I would have been happy to see Varga die, but, of course, the bad guys often truly do win.  As for the acting being subpar to other seasons, I can't agree at all.  Mary E Winstead, Carrie coon, Micheal S, David Thewlis...superior actors, imo, and they all gave it their all. imo.

Carrie Coon DID look really pretty with the longer hair and the vibrant blue of her new uniform. She'd promised to take her son to the fair for his birthday...the son would be 18 now, right? is that weird? when I was 18, I wouldn't be caught dead at a fair with my parents. But I was little shit, probably.

It may be a little different for Gloria and her son since they are from a very small town and she raised the kid largely by herself. Being from a very small town, the son would have very limited opportunities to make good friends. So maybe the two of them were closer than most mothers and sons for that reason.

I'm with you. When I was 18, I escaped to a different city and wanted nothing to do with my mother. Of course, I never liked my mother. I had a very good reason that I won't bore you with. But after turning 18, I hardly spent any time with her at all. She used to encourage my father to beat me for misbehaving when I was between the ages of 6 to 10. My parents thought that would improve my behavior and my attitude towards them. It just made it worse. Ultimately, it made it as terrible as possible. If any parents are interested in some advice from me, I would strongly advise you to discipline your children without beating them. Especially without beating them often. It doesn't improve their behavior. It just tends to make it worse.

Edited July 5, 2017 by MissBluxom

[MisterBluxom]

It's been almost two weeks since I last watched any of the S3 episodes and I must say the season does keep getting better every time I re-watch any of the episodes.

But, ultimately, there is one point that really bothers me and I'm still angry about it.

That is the way the feud (if you can call it that) between Gloria and the fool new sherrif remained unresolved. I feel like the audience really  deserved to see that fool finally and thoroughly humbled.

It's like a debt that Noah owed to the audience but that he never paid.

So many other things that people have complained about could be excused. But I can't find any way to excuse that one. We got that payoff in the first two seasons. Why could we not have gotten paid in S3?

It would have been so simple to have a brief scene in which it was acknowledged that the new sheriff was completely wrong and stupid for chasing an obviously foolish premise and the man he arrested was finally seen to be innocent. Yes, he would have had to admit that several cases remained unsolved. But, so what? They were unsolved.  It was just so irksome that they would prefer to placate this foolish new sheriff by not rocking his boat.

I remain angry about this. The only counter I can see is for someone to say, "But that is the way that the legal system often works today. We don't want to upset a sitting head of a police department by questioning their decisions. So, we prefer to let a case be handled in a way that is very obviously wrong rather than deal with making some statement to the public that person was just plain wrong.

Edited July 16, 2017 by MissBluxom

[shapeshifter]

Gloria having moved on to a job with perhaps better opportunities is the most realistic of satisfying resolutions to such a situation — in spite of many of us spending many years waiting for the proverbial bus to hit either ourselves or our bosses. I guess a more dramatic resolution to that plot point would have distracted from the more complicated arcs.

[MisterBluxom]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Gloria having moved on to a job with perhaps better opportunities is the most realistic of satisfying resolutions to such a situation — in spite of many of us spending many years waiting for the proverbial bus to hit either ourselves or our bosses. I guess a more dramatic resolution to that plot point would have distracted from the more complicated arcs.

Thanks Shapeshifter. It's always good to read your posts. You always make good sense and have a knack for being able to resolve problems. Please come back next year - if there is a next year.