Season Five Discussion

[Cranberry]

If you want to discuss season five as a whole, this is the place!

[Allie56]

I think I liked this season overall. It seems like, from the other threads, that most people are sick of Crazy Eyes, but I remain enamored of Uzo. The shot of her crying while tied to the bed got me right in my heart. 

The Good: 

• I like the idea of the prison riot taking place over a season. It shakes up the daily prison routine and let us see a lot more strange couples interacting. It definitely sticks out as a very different style, but I liked it.
• Putting Boo and Pennsatucky together has redeemed two characters I couldn't stand before.  Their scenes are amazing. 
• I liked seeing the women pull together and do normal things, like start a coffee shop.
• I loved the opportunity to see more of the prison.
• I also liked seeing the women freak out over small luxuries that I take for granted, like a latte or being able to eat all the candy I want. 
• Flaca and Maritza's beauty blog. 
• Gloria's complicated and difficult storyline. 
• Poussey's library memorial. 
• Bayley's slow descent from guilt and depression. I felt so bad for the kid, even though he killed one of my favorite characters. 
• Fig!
• Flashback cameos. 

The Bad:

• Way too much meth heads. I don't think they are funny. I think they are horrible people and I hated every moment wasted on them.
• Way too much of the neo-Nazis and the new Latina girls. If we'd just seen them running the coffee shop together, that would have been enough. I cannot stand the neo-Nazis AT. ALL. They are odious and repulsive and I hated having to hear their white power nonsense. 
• I didn't like Maria's storyline, ringleading guard humiliation with abandon and then somehow ending up releasing them all so Gloria cannot get furlough. 
• Piper. I really related to Piper in the first episodes of the first season, as I'm also a neurotic WASP who would have no idea how to survive prison. Her personality from season to season is so inconsistent. She is kind of the worst now. 
• Too much time wasted on humiliating the guards with no advancement of the story. 
• I started off on Taystee's side, but by the end when she was demanding that Bayley go to prison without understanding how the law has to work...I was done. 

I'm sure there is lots more I'm forgetting, but these are what stick out to me.

[MrsR]

Hell of a cast reset.

 

So there will be no more Daya, no more Aleida. No meth heads, or Maritza, No more Boo. The White Supremacists are gone. No more Brooke. No more Sister.

We will probably still see Pennsyltucky. Maybe Chang. Maybe Maria and Sophia. 

 

Over all I did enjoy the season. I never expected the Meth Heads to redeem. And the way they all treated Humps body was disturbing. And I cheered when Pisacatella bought it. With him dead, the core group can claim they were held captive by him and they will be okay.

 

Blanca and Red were awesome. Luschech never fails to deliver the funny.

 

Great season for Tastee.

[DianeDobbler]

Ok, I haven't finished watching the entire season, but want to talk about it overall versus one particular episode. Allie, I agree with most of your summing up. I liked this season better than a few recent seasons. I just disagree about Piper. I'm used to her. I don't have expectations of her - she is what she is. It's when they tried to turn her dark, and then tried to get "sexy" with her that I thought was stupid. She and Alex have a natural, unforced vibe, it just is what it is and IMO makes sense to let that ride. Piper isn't someone I'd be friends with, but I think Taylor Schilling is a good point of reference for the show.

I'm not such a big Danielle Brooks (Tastee) fan. She works hard, etc. but IMO doesn't hold the screen have that charisma / authority. It's not always about talent - I think she has talent. I think Adrienne C. Moore (Black Cindy) is a star, and I think Samira Wiley (who played Poussey) was compelling despite not being the strongest actress there for awhile. Or rather, she at times seemed to be a poor fit for some of the material they were giving her. It's hard to play in the middle.

MrsR, I haven't gotten to the episodes that tell me no more Boo. Why no more Boo? (I don't care about spoilers.) I enjoyed Boo's storyline this season - what I've seen of it. I do think the writing found its groove with some of the characters it had struggled w/in the past. I enjoyed Nikki a lot more this season. I, too, could have done without some of the guard torture exercises. Some of that felt bloated.

Glad to see the back of Daya. Way in the past when she was having her guard romance, there was something appealing there, even though we knew there had to be more or she wouldn't be in jail. After this season I think she's dangerous. Doesn't mean she's not human. But she's dangerous.

[Captanne]

I binged the series last weekend so it's not fair for me to judge broad brush strokes that were meant to be episodic but some things stood out for me.  I think the torture scenes from the meth-heads were to invoke "The Lord of the Flies" sensations from the viewers.  Some of these inmates are not just in jail because of isolated criminal behaviour but because they are rotten eggs through and through.  Personally, I found it unwatchable and a bit strained -- but remember that is through a binger's lens, not an episodic, weekly experience.

I like Piper and Vause because of what DianeDobbler mentioned.

OTH, I do like the actor who plays Taystee very much.  I have never understood the appeal of CrazyEyes and in this series, she is off the charts.  I didn't realize her medication kept her so (relatively) in check.  When she's off it, I lose the ability to identify with her plight.

[Ceindreadh]

4 hours ago, MrsR said:

Hell of a cast reset.

 

So there will be no more Daya, no more Aleida. No meth heads, or Maritza, No more Boo. The White Supremacists are gone. No more Brooke. No more Sister.

We will probably still see Pennsyltucky. Maybe Chang. Maybe Maria and Sophia. 

 

Over all I did enjoy the season. I never expected the Meth Heads to redeem. And the way they all treated Humps body was disturbing. And I cheered when Pisacatella bought it. With him dead, the core group can claim they were held captive by him and they will be okay.

 

Blanca and Red were awesome. Luschech never fails to deliver the funny.

 

Great season for Tastee.

I don't think we can necessarily rule out any of the characters. Yes, they were separated on the buses, but at that point I think it was more about getting them back behind bars in a hurry. Any or all of them could be transferred back to Lichfield in and when it reopens. 

Heh, could make for some interesting contract negotiations because every character could potentially be written off or return. 

[kieyra]

@DianeDobbler, at the end of the season one group of inmates is in location A, and the others are being shipped off to (B, C, D?), with a few possible escapees, maybe. I think the theory was that anyone not in location A won't be returning to the show, and while I can understand why people would think that, AFAIK it's just a theory. 

(So in other words, Boo didn't end the season in location A.)

That said, the cast is incredibly, incredibly bloated, and a shake-up is probably in order. 

Season overall:

I struggled with this season after the first 3 episodes or so. I liked the riot setup at first, but then of course things got bleak and torture-porny, and I already watch so many bleak shows, and reality sucks right now ... and I grew fatigued over the meth-head scenes (which seems to be a common theme), and Crazy-Eyes being crazy, and I got so sick of looking at that one woman's jacked-up, septic face, and Alex spending half the season in a muddy tank top, and ... yeah. Lots of storylines were either too disturbing, or went on far, far too long and grew repetitive. 

And no way was I sitting through the Piscatella horror movie stuff at the end. 

I like Alex and Piper together. I think Piper has achieved a certain self-awareness.

[WhosThatGirl]

I don't think we are doing that big of a cast reset. I do think we will be losing a few but not people like Boo. A few may be MIA, this cast has always been sort of like that, they've had many moments where characters were sidelined because the actors had other projects. I remember LC being sidelined because she was busy doing other projects and they sent Sophia to the shoo. 

I would say this season wasn't my least favorite or my favorite. It would probably rank it as number three. Last year still goes number one for me and the season before that as number 2. 

I did like that it was fast paced. And every episode ended with me wanting to watch the next one( hence why I finished the season in A Weekend). It wasn't perfect by any means but I enjoyed it.

I don't like the Pennstucky storyline at all and wish they would end it, actually. I don't get it and I don't enjoy it and it's uncomfortable to watch for me. As were the theater scenes with the guards. Look I get that the COs are not great people, and Bailey did kill someone accidentally and the other guards said stood around and let bad things happen and said nothing but Someone else mentioned that the searches that are done to the inmates are class is over because the inmates have committed crimes. I feel like there's a difference. It made it really hard to root for the inmates participating.

This is another season where I liked Alex more than I have in past seasons. 

Im pretty meh on piper. Which is probably better than my hate for her last year but she is such a meh character in a series where she essentially started as our central character. For the past couple seasons before this one I would have assumed they were fazing her out but now given the ending we got this season I don't know what they are planning to do. 

[funandfitpt]

I was rewatching Season 1 and it shows Tastee working in the library and Poussey joining her to get out of cleaning crew. In a flashback this season it showed Poussey being in charge of the library and Tastee being new and that's how they met. Big inconsistency there.

[ImpinAintEasy]

Just finished the season last night and I thought it was a big step down from the previous couple of seasons. Too many characters I don't particularly care about. I may be in the minority, but I can't stand Piper and Alex together. They are fine separate from each other(though still not my favorites), but I just don't like the chemistry between the two. I would be fine with them getting married and riding off into the sunset, never to be seen again.

[Madding crowd]

Just finished watching and thought this was a depressing season with little to show at the end. I despise seeing torture so whether it was the inmates or the guards doing the torture, I hated it. I also didn't at all see this as a non-violent riot. When you take prisoners and abuse them it cannot be called non-violent. The guards were sexually assaulted, kept from medication, beat, kept in port-o-potties in intense heat,  and in the case of Humps, murdered. There was also no organization to the riot. Taystee and Cindy communicated with the outside at times, but very little of that went back to the rest of the prison. Most of the women had no idea what was going on at all and had no vote in what the demands were. As others have said, way too much of the meth heads, the nazis and the violent women who wanted to attack the guards.

I also found it unrealistic that at no time did the 'outside people' make an attempt to determine the number, names and conditions of the hostages. In a prison like this there could be any number of guards, medical staff, visitors, prison staff etc and never once was this determined by either the governor's office or the prison officials. They showed Fig asking about Humps one time, but even she made no effort to visually verify he was ok. I also found it odd that the guard who relied on insulin was shown to have no ill effects after three days which is impossible. The officials also never inquired about prisoners who were in the sick bay and might require medical assistance. Even upon finding out a guard was shot, there was no attempt to send in medical care or to try to get the injured officer out of the prison. In the scene where Daya turned herself in, I fully expected Humps to be brought out on a stretcher as well, but they didn't seem to care. (Not saying the viewers should care but it seemed unrealistic). Usually in hostage situations, efforts are made to find out the physical condition, identify,  and number of hostages and the first order of business is to get medical care for anyone hurt. 

 I also felt bad for Linda being mistaken for a prisoner-while she is not the most likable person, she was taken hostage like the the others and Caputo should have been honest about her identify. I also don't think she is a murderer for her drunk girlfriend dying outside (and it seems a bit much considering they were likely in a heavily populated area). I remember several occasions when I was in college, quite drunk and left behind by friends. I guess I could have froze to death outside, but I was usually in areas with a lot of bars, and I was never that far gone. It's always kind of shitty to leave behind a drunk friend (and shitty to lie to the cops), but I wouldn't call her a murderer.

The story of Suzanne continues to be heart breaking. I know these prisons are not big on mental health care, but I think Suzanne would be too much for the prison to handle and I have no doubt she would be in a mental health facility. Lorna is also crazy but can maintain just enough to get by.

I no longer have any sort of feelings for Alex or Piper. They both come across as narcissistic and cold and they have little connection with the rest of the people. I did enjoy Gloria's scenes and felt sorry for her. 

[kdm07]

I'm gonna try and sort out my thoughts about this season. It's probably one of the weaker ones so far (Season 3 still remains the worst because of the Stella character) but when I think about how much time passes in this season, things make a little more sense to me. IIRC all of Season 5 occurs over roughly 3 days so they oscillating emotions from almost every character makes perfect sense when you realise that people are trying to deal with the grief/shock/rage of Poussey's death and stay above water with the whole riot situation. I'll come back and edit this post once I get some time to break it all down.

I will say this though: that ending had me close to throwing something at my TV. I can't believe I have to wait another year to see what happens next.

Edited June 16, 2017 by kdm07

[MakeMeLaugh]

So is Litchfield the only prison in the USA that doesn't have cameras in protective cases in all public areas? Wouldn't the administration have Poussey's death on video, plus Humps getting shot, etc., etc.? We've watched only through episode 7 and I'm yawning. So much stupid filler.

[shantown]

I would love to know how they decided on those 10 (Frieda, Suzanne, Cindy, Taystee, Red, Piper, Alex, Nicky, Gloria, Blanca) being the 10 left in the bunker. 

Nicky could have taken Morello, but she didn't. Others chose to leave. Anyone else could have seen where they were heading. It makes me wonder if that's the core group we're focusing on next season or if it was a random group or what. I wouldn't mind if that's the focus next year. I'd miss Flaritza, but I would't mind if we never saw the meth heads or nazis ever again.

[WhosThatGirl]

Well Taylor/Piper still gets top billing in the cast so it makes sense why she was chosen. And I think now very much Piper and Alex are a package deal so. The others in unsure about. Although suzanne is always somehow in the big mix of this show, they seem to really the character. The only moment I truly liked Suzanne was when she was adamant about breakfast and the times it was served. It just struck something in me that the writers have her a trait that because of her mental illness, she needs a structure and that includes when meals need to be. I don't know why it just did something to me. The other characters in unsure about why they chose them.

I don't see them getting rid of Morella or Boo though. I just don't. Or Pennstucky. The problem is the cast is so large now.

And the metheads need to go I agree. 

[Blue Plastic]

There is too much time between seasons for the cliffhangers to even be that effective.  We left last season after Poussey had just been killed, tempers were flaring all over the prison, and Daya was holding the gun on Humps.  But then a whole year in real time passes until they release more episodes, at which time I can barely remember any details of what was going on.  Poussey's group is still supposed to be reeling because it's only been a few days after her death, but in reality it's been a year and I can't relate to the timeline the characters are living in.  Now this season, we get a few miserable "days" full of torture, barely anything else happens except for that misery and torture, and are given another cliffhanger.  By the time next season rolls around, I'll have forgotten what happened again.

Hated the meth heads, the white supremacists, and Ouija+1.  They all took up an awful lot of screen time and I hated every minute of it.

Hated every minute of the guard torture.  No, they are not the nicest people but rape?  That was rape and it went on for a long time and was almost presented as though it was supposed to be amusing to the audience.  Well, it wasn't.

Hated every minute of Piscatella torturing Red et al.

The only thing I liked was Red's group in the bunker/empty pool and Maritza and Flaca making You Tube beauty videos.

I like Taystee but she wasn't going to get anywhere since Humps was dying/dead.  Suzanne was annoying but I felt sorry for her that she didn't have her medication and stabilizing schedule.  It's a good story to tell but they let her scenes go on too long because they like the actress, IMO.

[ExplainItAgain]

On 6/16/2017 at 3:49 PM, MakeMeLaugh said:

So is Litchfield the only prison in the USA that doesn't have cameras in protective cases in all public areas? Wouldn't the administration have Poussey's death on video, plus Humps getting shot, etc., etc.? We've watched only through episode 7 and I'm yawning. So much stupid filler.

Didn't they mention this in an earlier season? They have some cameras up but they're not on? I swear the female guard (Fischer?) asked about the cameras and Caputo quietly told her they don't work? They also recorded all the phone calls but they never monitored them. There was a scene where Fischer was listening to the calls (that I thought was going to go somewhere...but was oddly never mentioned again).

 

On 6/16/2017 at 0:00 PM, funandfitpt said:

I was rewatching Season 1 and it shows Tastee working in the library and Poussey joining her to get out of cleaning crew. In a flashback this season it showed Poussey being in charge of the library and Tastee being new and that's how they met. Big inconsistency there.

Was the scene this season explicit that Poussey was working there? I thought she was just in the library. I think she said to Taystee to "come see me" but I think that was a reference to her liking books (talking to Taystee about Alice in Wonderland) and spending a lot of time in the library. I'd have to rewatch but I don't think they explicitly said she worked there.

I binged this whole series in the last month or so. This season was definitely better than 3, and maybe 4, but not as good to me as 1 or 2.

For me the good was:

• The reign of Piscatella is over.
• I really liked Taystee this season. For once, someone other than Piper screwed things up for everybody.
• Enjoyed more of Frieda's story and I enjoyed all the little glimpses we got of people being inventive and creative with their time and the items in the prison.
• Blanca's makeover and her and Red teaming up. I like unexpected pairings (like Boo and Tucky last season).
• No Healy. Thank god. My least favorite character after Alex.
• Casting (in particular little Frieda and Dascha's daughter as younger Daya)

The bad:

• Way too much time on the meth heads, the Nazis, and Oujia and her gang.
• Even a small glimpse of Pornstache and his "Mommy! Mommy!"
• Me, personally, I am over Suzanne. I can't watch any more scenes of her freaking out. I completely understand that this is realistic to prisons but it's getting to be too much to watch.
• Maria's whiplash. First she's in charge, leading the riot, assaulting the guards, then she's outside with the resistance, then she chucks it all to escape with the prisoners. She knows how things go - she can't possibly think that she'd be getting a fair deal for releasing the guards.
• Pennsatucky/Donuts. Ugh.

Edited June 17, 2017 by ExplainItAgain

[chrissybk]

So, I came here to fangirl! I had to tell someone (and I thought who better than all of you lol) that I commented on one of Miriam Morales' instagram posts and she liked my comment and replied back to me. For those who don't know, she plays Pidge who is Ouija's sidekick for lack of a better description lol.  

[absnow54]

I really felt like this season dragged. The first few episodes were great, but by the middle of the season, it just seemed like we were seeing the same thing over and over. I feel like they could have wrapped up the riot in the first half of the season and spent the second half on the aftermath. As someone pointed out earlier, this format doesn't really work well with cliffhangers. It's hard enough to remember a plot thread from 3 months ago let alone a year, and with the timeline this show has been operating on, four days ago for them is two years ago for us (I think they even joked about this when they were talking about the hacked up prison guard that Alex killed at the end of season 3... or was it sometime during season 4?) I guess I'm going to have to do an entire series rewatch leading up to season 6 so that I'm caught up again.

[funandfitpt]

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 6:55 PM, ExplainItAgain said:

Didn't they mention this in an earlier season? They have some cameras up but they're not on? I swear the female guard (Fischer?) asked about the cameras and Caputo quietly told her they don't work? They also recorded all the phone calls but they never monitored them. There was a scene where Fischer was listening to the calls (that I thought was going to go somewhere...but was oddly never mentioned again).

 

Was the scene this season explicit that Poussey was working there? I thought she was just in the library. I think she said to Taystee to "come see me" but I think that was a reference to her liking books (talking to Taystee about Alice in Wonderland) and spending a lot of time in the library. I'd have to rewatch but I don't think they explicitly said she worked there.

I binged this whole series in the last month or so. This season was definitely better than 3, and maybe 4, but not as good to me as 1 or 2.

For me the good was:

• The reign of Piscatella is over.
• I really liked Taystee this season. For once, someone other than Piper screwed things up for everybody.
• Enjoyed more of Frieda's story and I enjoyed all the little glimpses we got of people being inventive and creative with their time and the items in the prison.
• Blanca's makeover and her and Red teaming up. I like unexpected pairings (like Boo and Tucky last season).
• No Healy. Thank god. My least favorite character after Alex.
• Casting (in particular little Frieda and Dascha's daughter as younger Daya)

The bad:

• Way too much time on the meth heads, the Nazis, and Oujia and her gang.
• Even a small glimpse of Pornstache and his "Mommy! Mommy!"
• Me, personally, I am over Suzanne. I can't watch any more scenes of her freaking out. I completely understand that this is realistic to prisons but it's getting to be too much to watch.
• Maria's whiplash. First she's in charge, leading the riot, assaulting the guards, then she's outside with the resistance, then she chucks it all to escape with the prisoners. She knows how things go - she can't possibly think that she'd be getting a fair deal for releasing the guards.
• Pennsatucky/Donuts. Ugh.

You are correct. I guess I just assumed Poussey was working in the library.

[Kbilly]

I just couldn't get past how unrealistic this was that the authorities would go so long just allowing rioters the time to build library memorials,curate outdoor living spaces and open and close a coffee shop. Wouldn't there be people on all perimeters? The back fence with the gaping hole would just not be patrolled? It just spoiled the whole thing for me. It was like nonsense interspersed with Emmy reel fodder for Suzanne and Taystee.

Edited June 19, 2017 by Kbilly

[leighroda]

On 6/17/2017 at 5:51 PM, Blue Plastic said:

There is too much time between seasons for the cliffhangers to even be that effective.  We left last season after Poussey had just been killed, tempers were flaring all over the prison, and Daya was holding the gun on Humps.  But then a whole year in real time passes until they release more episodes, at which time I can barely remember any details of what was going on.  Poussey's group is still supposed to be reeling because it's only been a few days after her death, but in reality it's been a year and I can't relate to the timeline the characters are living in.  Now this season, we get a few miserable "days" full of torture, barely anything else happens except for that misery and torture, and are given another cliffhanger.  By the time next season rolls around, I'll have forgotten what happened again.

Hated the meth heads, the white supremacists, and Ouija+1.  They all took up an awful lot of screen time and I hated every minute of it.

Hated every minute of the guard torture.  No, they are not the nicest people but rape?  That was rape and it went on for a long time and was almost presented as though it was supposed to be amusing to the audience.  Well, it wasn't.

Hated every minute of Piscatella torturing Red et al.

The only thing I liked was Red's group in the bunker/empty pool and Maritza and Flaca making You Tube beauty videos.

I like Taystee but she wasn't going to get anywhere since Humps was dying/dead.  Suzanne was annoying but I felt sorry for her that she didn't have her medication and stabilizing schedule.  It's a good story to tell but they let her scenes go on too long because they like the actress, IMO.

I think you're right about real time being too long. I meant to rewatch the earlier episodes before the season came out but didn't get a chance to, so when it came to the outrage/sadness I felt for Poussay, and wondering what Daya would wind up doing, I just didn't care anymore, even if I had rewatched I don't think I would have had the same feelings I had initially watching. It's the flaw of Netflix, it's hard to stay interested after a full year. 

[WhosThatGirl]

I did like parts of this season. The beginning was exciting and the end was good. The middle episodes did drag a lot.

I liked the concept and I liked little things, like the fact that the inmates need the consistency, even if it wasn't explicitly shown like with Suzanne and her not getting her keds but needing the schedule of prison events,I think all of then need a schedule of some kind even if they were rebellious against it, they need things to do and keep them or else it chaos.

 

Also aside from a small select few, most of them weren't doing good. Despite thinking they were. I know it's been said but the terrorizing of the gaurds isn't an eye for an eye. The cavity searches that are done to the inmates are because the inmates      are criminals. And most of the guards biggest crimes was standing by and not speaking up when bad things were going down. Crappy yes, but worth all the torment they had to go through? I personally don't think so.  I mean I thought the talent show episode was funny and I laughed but I wish that had been it. I wish they didn't do half of what they did to them. It was hard to feel sad for the inmates after that. 

And I'm over the methheads. They got a few laughs out of me but after three episodes, it got old and annoying. They aren't cute or funny. I remember disliking Flacka and Martiza I'd take them over the methheads any day. 

[KikiBda]

No Healy because he killed himself right? 

[LJonEarth]

I thought the balance of wackiness and serious material wasn't right. This might just be the meth heads issue that everyone else is mentioning. At the midpoint, I was really considering dropping the show for a while at least.

[ExplainItAgain]

43 minutes ago, KikiBda said:

No Healy because he killed himself right? 

No, he waded into the lake, but came out when his phone rang (he thought it was his wife calling back, but it was the prison). He later checked himself into the psychiatric hospital. There was a brief glimpse of him in there, either in the last episode of S4 or the first of this season, can't remember.

[possibilities]

I am glad there was no Healy. I don't want any more of him.

[questionfear]

My speculation is that they might start the next season with everyone in different prisons being transferred back to a reopened Litchfield under state governance again. They could frame it as a PR decision-look, we're moving people back to their "home prison" and showing how much nicer it is now, and I wouldn't be shocked if there's some storyline or brief moment of them trying to get some of the returned prisoners to speak out about how much better Litchfield is now. That gets everyone back with a reset of the prison, and anyone who can't come back/doesn't make it through cast negotiations is just "transferred to another facility". 

[April Bloodgate]

I don't understand why the final 10 stayed in the bunker. How was that better than coming out peacefully? They were going to be roughed up a bit, handcuffed, and taken out either way, but by hiding out til the end, they've made things so much worse for themselves. Other than saying with Alex's arm she "couldn't handle" the guards, what reason was there to stay hidden? 

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, questionfear said:

My speculation is that they might start the next season with everyone in different prisons being transferred back to a reopened Litchfield under state governance again. They could frame it as a PR decision-look, we're moving people back to their "home prison" and showing how much nicer it is now, and I wouldn't be shocked if there's some storyline or brief moment of them trying to get some of the returned prisoners to speak out about how much better Litchfield is now. That gets everyone back with a reset of the prison, and anyone who can't come back/doesn't make it through cast negotiations is just "transferred to another facility". 

Now, I do think we'll eventually see them being moved back to Litchfield, but I think they might want to explore each group of inmates at different prisons. It provides them with more story opportunities while giving certain actresses a little bit more time off. They could have each episode focused on a different prison setting and the different groups. I don't think they'd move them all back to Litchfield right away. I do think we'll start losing cast members for next season, just to filter out the ensemble a bit.

15 hours ago, ExplainItAgain said:

No, he waded into the lake, but came out when his phone rang (he thought it was his wife calling back, but it was the prison). He later checked himself into the psychiatric hospital. There was a brief glimpse of him in there, either in the last episode of S4 or the first of this season, can't remember.

Totally forgot about him checking himself into the psych hospital, although now I do remember the scene. 

17 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

And I'm over the methheads. They got a few laughs out of me but after three episodes, it got old and annoying. They aren't cute or funny. I remember disliking Flacka and Martiza I'd take them over the methheads any day. 

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Flaca and Maritza's dumb, vapid personalities and I was not liking much of their Youtube arc, but they are still watchable while I can't stand watching the meth heads. I'd rather see Flaca/Maritza making dumb comments over the meth heads. 

[possibilities]

On 6/20/2017 at 0:05 PM, April Bloodgate said:

I don't understand why the final 10 stayed in the bunker. How was that better than coming out peacefully? They were going to be roughed up a bit, handcuffed, and taken out either way, but by hiding out til the end, they've made things so much worse for themselves. Other than saying with Alex's arm she "couldn't handle" the guards, what reason was there to stay hidden? 

I don't think they had clarity about what was happening at first, and their instinct to stay out of the violence once it started sounding scary was probably as far as it went. Piper thought they were winning their demands, and that order would be restored peacefully, so they also probably thought they could eventually come out quietly and not be caught as having been in the bunker in the first place. And then after shots were fired and things got terrifying, they pretty quickly realized it was too late and agreed to Freida's plan to basically surrender to it and either die together holding hands with their dignity intact, or hope for mercy.  I actually think it was the right call. We saw how Piscatella was shot on sight. The cops sweeping the building believed the "missing inmates" were probably armed and planning to fight. Odds are, they would have been shot on sight just like Piscatella was. They really had no good options. This way they can claim they were hiding because they were scared, maybe. The video of Piscatella torturing them might even help their case seem credible, if they are given any chance at all before the triggers are pulled (which because it's TV they will be-- the show isn't going to kill off this many of their most prominent characters in one go. They might actually sacrifice some, but not all of them).

[questionfear]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

I don't think they had clarity about what was happening at first, and their instinct to stay out of the violence once it started sounding scary was probably as far as it went. Piper thought they were winning their demands, and that order would be restored peacefully, so they also probably thought they could eventually come out quietly and not be caught as having been in the bunker in the first place. And then after shots were fired and things got terrifying, they pretty quickly realized it was too late and agreed to Freida's plan to basically surrender to it and either die together holding hands with their dignity intact, or hope for mercy.  I actually think it was the right call. We saw how Piscatella was shot on sight. The cops sweeping the building believed the "missing inmates" were probably armed and planning to fight. Odds are, they would have been shot on sight just like Piscatella was. They really had no good options. This way they can claim they were hiding because they were scared, maybe. The video of Piscatella torturing them might even help their case seem credible, if they are given any chance at all before the triggers are pulled (which because it's TV they will be-- the show isn't going to kill off this many of their most prominent characters in one go. They might actually sacrifice some, but not all of them).

If anything, what happened to Piscatella probably helps them a little bit, because they will be far more cautious entering the bunker. The cops don't have any context for why Piscatella emerged, so for all they know he's already subdued everyone in the bunker, plus they may not want to explain how they shot someone, then walked through two rooms and down some stairs before shooting people AGAIN. 

[Athena]

There were lots of times during this season that I wondered why I kept watching this show. I do not generally like prison shows and coupled with the torture and misery for most of this season, I had moments where I thought I would quit after this season. I do not like most of the characters anymore and can't find them rootable. I think the only ones I find entertaining are the original bunker ladies group led by Freida. I liked that Blanca being added to the Red team mix.  I couldn't stand so many of the others aforementioned. I get it; they are criminals and back stabby and prone to destructive behaviour. I was really uncomfortable with the Pensatucky situation; we are suppose to be but that last scene with them creeped me out.

I still think the acting is still good generally. The breakout star of this show is probably Michelle Brooks. She's on Broadway and doing good guest roles in other things. I disagreed with her Bailey scapegoating through the whole season but Taystee is more of a protagonist than Piper now. Piper's whole arc this season was being with Alex. Her half-hearted attempt at being important in the negotiations was a blip.

A little highlight for me was seeing Pablo Schreiber again. He is fantastic on American Gods and is 1000% times more attractive there. It spilled over to here. I always like Mary Steenburger too.

The ending of the season was not bad in the sense that they got rid of Piscatella and the riot did not have too many causalities. I am curious to see what happens with the bunker ladies. That's about it really.

The show is really stretching past its prime which is usually true of shows around S5, but I find it hard to think I will rewatch any of this show when it's done. I'm not a completionist generally, but the show has gotten me attached to some of the characters. I think I will watch next season, but I do not look forward to it like I use to.

[snowwhyte]

I don't think this season was a particularly strong one. There was too much going on but at the same time it was fairly repetitive. There was too much focus on characters that are annoying or that I am not invested in. 

I think the show has the potential to carry on after Piper leaves. It has become more of an ensemble show now but it needs to phase out characters that are played out and bring in new characters that are interesting and enjoyable to watch. I wouldn't particularly want to see flashbacks for the Nazis or the Dominicans but I miss those flashbacks that actually surprised me and revealed hidden aspects to the women.

It does seem like they are going to have to make changes next season so hopefully they'll be changes for the better.

[leighroda]

I think the difference with them shooting Piscatella on site and and what would happen if one of the women had come out was the guard didn't mean to shoot to kill piscatella, he was shooting some kind of capsule (I don't remember what they called it I think some kind of pepper spray) and he was shooting at the ceiling like he had been corrected before, but Piscatella is like 7 ft tall so he was shot in the head, which killed him. I don't doubt had it been a woman that it would have been a violent take down, but I don't think they would have been immediately shot at.

[kaygeeret]

All your comments are interesting.

When I finally watch I will keep them in mind.

I was destroyed by Poussey's death.  The so lovely scenes of her past life or dreams or whatever they were - so lovely, just like I felt about the character.

I watched the last epi from last season last night (how many times can I use the word last?), and just could not continue today.

I will get there of course and will be back when I am finished watching the season.

[WhosThatGirl]

I mean.. I enjoyed this season. Was it my favorite? No. But I enjoyed it more than the first two seasons. Although I don't think anything can top last season for me.

And I thought the start of this season was excellent. The first three episodes were very exciting and I kept wanting to watch. And the last four episodes were excellent too. But I agree with others, this season was kind of stuck at an impasse.

 Probably because the writers were locked into the story they had cultivated. They were knee deep in the riot but they couldn't have the prisoners roll over and so we spend a lot of episodes where nothing majority was happening and our focus was on terrible secondary characters like the nazis and the methheads who got too big of a roles this season. Most of this season was filler. But the writers made a choice to have this season be all about the riot and we couldn't rush from the start to the end. 

[LadyNebula]

Ugh, the meth heads.  When the white supremacists have more redeeming qualities, you know those characters need to go.  

[Guest]

On 6/20/2017 at 9:05 AM, April Bloodgate said:

I don't understand why the final 10 stayed in the bunker. How was that better than coming out peacefully? They were going to be roughed up a bit, handcuffed, and taken out either way, but by hiding out til the end, they've made things so much worse for themselves. Other than saying with Alex's arm she "couldn't handle" the guards, what reason was there to stay hidden? 

For a cliffhanger.  That's all I can guess. 

The whole situation seemed very manufactured to me.  I'm fine with suspending disbelief to a point but this got crazy.  I understand their point that guards can be monsters but practically everyone involved in the prison or law enforcement is a monster in this show.  I think SWAT teams are probably trained in how to handle a gun properly and how to minimize casualties in these situations.  This team was more like they just picked up a bunch of moron sadists dying to kill or beat people and stuck them in riot gear and sent them in.  

[LJonEarth]

I happened to listen to something about prison riots this weekend. It made me understand where the writers were getting a lot of the material from this season. I still didn't like much of this. But I appreciate it a bit more.

[Kiddvideo]

Looks like they solved the story problem about why Piper had such a short sentence but is still in the joint. Tack on a few more years for Pipes.

Isn't Litchfield still a federal facility even if it's privatized? How would the governor have authority to negotiate changes? That kept bugging me.

Fig really worked for me this season. She's always been so needlessly awful, but her no fear no bullshit approach was just what the situation needed for both sides to reach an agreement. If only Taystee hadn't thrown it away. They sacrificed Daya for the greater good, and I even think Poussey (just based on my interpretation of her character) would've told Taystee to take the deal even if it meant possibly sacrificing justice for her (which wasn't even a certainty.)

i'm 50/50 on watching it next season. My work situation is pretty flexible right now, so I had it on in the background. If I have to watch it on my own time, I'll probably just read the recaps.

[Diane12251]

This was a very intense season - and I thought most of the acting was very good.  Piscatella's back story was very insightful about his character.  Although the scene when he was torturing Red was hard to watch, it was very good.  Seeing Red's character in flashbacks in Russia was also very good - I hope they go into her back story next season.  I didn't like the meth heads scenes or the white supremacists, but then both are a reality of prison.  I think that's the point - that you not like certain aspects but they all add to the whole mindset of how bad prison really is.  Bailey going to Poussey's father's house to seek some sort of forgiveness was heart-breaking.  Bailey was just a product of the system, and he never should have been a prison guard - too kind-hearted.  I thought Tastee got carried away with "wanting everything," and should have made the concession to get everything else but justice for Poussey - but then, once the authorities found out that Humps was dead, the whole thing could have been scraped anyway so it all was probably futile from the beginning.  I actually liked Figueroa this season - and the interactions between her and Caputo were great.  About the group that remained in the pool - it makes sense that they would stay there until the end because at the point where they realized what was happening in the main prison, it was too late for them to go out peacefully.  Standing there, arm-in-arm, was their best bet for staying alive.  To me, putting everyone on different buses doesn't mean that they are writing out a bunch of people - but it does mean a re-boot for next season.  As some have said, the cast has gotten very bloated so a cleansing is probably best.

[kieyra]

I'm rewatching season 3, and I'd forgotten all the books got burned because of the bed bugs. I can't remember how they restocked the library, and not sure of the implications for that copy of Alice in Wonderland. 

[Searchqueen]

I agree that much of this season was cringeworthy and hard to watch. I actually hated the "Talent Show" and couldn't understand why they wouldn't let the one guard go to the bathroom. The treatment of the hostages made me lose all sympathy for the prisoners who tortured them. Stripping, cavity searches, no water... Gross.

I also hated how they treated Judy King. Sure, she got ridiculous privileges and was a total bitch, but making her a slave and keeping her on a leash? A 60-year-old woman? Disgusted me.

I loved Nicky's unselfish heart. I felt sorry for the women who didn't want anything to do with the riot or the hostages. They will suffer as if they were guilty. And although I cannot stand the meth-heads, I had to cheer when they burned up everyone's folders. It will be interesting to see how they sort that out next season, with no computer backup.

Why they put this show in the "comedy" category is beyond me. It's not funny. There is witty banter, and some moments are funny, but it is bleak and painful. And too much of the "comedy" is making fun of stupid, drug-addled, or mentally handicapped people. And the weekend at Bernie's hijinks with the dead guard was horrific.

[kieyra]

Gave it another shot after binging the whole series again, including season four.

The season four rewatch reminded me of a lot of things:

Caputo really already did know, last season, about Piscatella being a murderer (but not for long). I'd also forgotten how awful Piscatella was in the first place (such as the sleep torture of Red). 

I'd forgotten Sophia is JUST back from her lengthy stint in SHU and possible suicide attempt. 

I'd forgotten that all the guards were awful in S4, and that the stripper dude was the one who started forcing Flores to stand on the table, starting the chain of events leading up to the riot. 

I'd forgotten (probably out of self defense) what Humps did to Maritza. 

I had forgotten Nicky ended S4 still actively trying to score drugs. 

So ... short version, I should probably have rewatched S4 to begin with. 

That said, S5 is still very difficult to watch. The chaos, the assault and humiliation with the guards and Judy King, the people who are walking around with clothes spattered with what looks like raw sewage (including Alex), even though they have running water and eventually electricity, and Jesus god, Kukudio's face. I literally can't watch any of her scenes. That actress had a fucking thankless job this season. 

I'm somewhat taken with Brandy the Nazi. The actor caught my attention the first time, and I looked them up. Brandy is played by Asia Kate Dillon, who identifies as gender non-binary (and prefers the "them" pronoun, which is difficult for me to type because I have some copy-editing background, but I'm trying to get used to it). Actually, I really like the scene with the Nazis and Frieda. (Love Frieda.) I know a lot of people want the show to jettison the meth heads, the Nazis, and the newer Latin crew, but I wouldn't mind if we got some flashbacks on Brandy and Helen. Brandy is obviously intelligent, and I would be interested to know how she (she the character) ended up a nazi.  (Obvious answer, grew up programmed, but still.)

I'll watch anything with Boo and Pennsatucky. Ditto Nicky and Lorna.

A lot of the Piper/Alex scenes for S5 are ruined for me because Alex is wearing a sewage shirt for much of it. 

Love Flaritza.

Over Daya. One thing re-watching the whole series has made apparent is that she's not really bright enough to survive prison. 

A lot of S5 is just unwatchable for me, and part of it is totally shallow (the grossness). Part of it is the chaos that they play like a series of wacky comedy sketches to fill time, part of it is the repetition with the negotiations, partly the treatment of the guards, and part of it is just stuff I don't care about at all, like the white supremacist's romantic troubles or the obsession with Cheetos. 

Looking forward to a return to a normal format next season, and hopefully a pared-down cast. I don't know if I'll be able to stick around if they put the primary cast in Max with even worse conditions and even more brutal guards.

Edited to add: I just realized why they put Red out of the game for much of the first half of the riot, at least, and out of her mind on speed--otherwise she would have done a much better job of organizing the situation and keeping things from getting out of hand, at least for "her" girls. And she sure as shit would have been helping Frieda hoard food. Red and Flores on speed were funny--but not that funny. 

(Ok, the Bigfoot/penis face thing was funny. There's also a little bit where Red says a sentence in Russian, and Flores replies in Spanish, and it's evident from subtitles that they understand each other anyway. Because drugs?)

Edited July 10, 2017 by kieyra

[kieyra]

Hah. Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt spoiler:

Spoiler

I just saw the episode of Kimmy Schmidt where Gretchen gets sent to Litchfiend, and Black Cindy takes her under her wing. Cute crossover, and now I guess these two shows exist in the same tv universe!

[rho]

1 hour ago, kieyra said:

Hah. Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt spoiler:

  Hide contents

I just saw the episode of Kimmy Schmidt where Gretchen gets sent to Litchfiend, and Black Cindy takes her under her wing. Cute crossover, and now I guess these two shows exist in the same tv universe!

I blame this on binge overload but for a hot second there I got

Spoiler

Gretchen and Cyndee confused and thought we had finally solved the mystery of White Cindy!

[kieyra]

Just now, rho said:

I blame this on binge overload but for a hot second there I got

  Hide contents

Gretchen and Cyndee confused and thought we had finally solved the mystery of White Cindy!

For my part, I just realized I spelled it 'Litchfiend', which sounds like a video game monster. 

[GreekGeek]

All in all, I agree with those who said that there were too many filler scenes and that the season would have been more effective had the riot occupied approximately half the episodes and the aftermath the other half. I also think it was problematic that only a few days passed on the show since Poussey's death, but it's been a whole year for us viewers. We've had time to grieve as much as is possible for a fictional character, so it was hard to put ourselves in the inmates' shoes. I also forgot several plot points, like who the woman with the badly beaten face was (Maureen) and how she got that way. 

A few random thoughts:

I wondered where Chang was throughout the riot, and was happy to see Lori Tan Chinn's name in the opening credits in the last episode. Too bad she didn't get more to do, but her one scene was great.

I liked the "I'm with MCC!" cry in the last episode. Kind of like the famous "I'm Spartacus!" in the Kirk Douglas movie, except that in the latter the other slaves were trying to protect Spartacus.

I agree with the countless comments that there was too much of Angie and Leanne. When they set fire to those records, I wondered if they would burn along with the papers. Their "comedy" wasn't funny, and neither were the scenes of Ouija and Pidge. If anyone is wondering about snorting coffee, here's an explanation of why it's not a good idea. The article doesn't mention vomiting or diarrhea as aftereffects, though. In connection with that, can we not have any more scenes of anyone throwing up or shitting?

The flashbacks appear to be unpopular, but I hope they continue. I like the glimpses of the characters in different times and places, and I ususally like the casting of their younger selves (or the same actor with different hair, i.e. Piscatella.) Loved Young Red in the USSR and Young Frieda in the Girl Scouts. Exception: Piper and Alex flashbacks. The ones we got in "Tattoo You" added nothing to the characters, and went on way too long.

Since the actor is still in the opening credits, I hope Healey will be back in S6. He's done some awful things, but I find him oddly sympathetic. He really wants to connect with people--especially women--but is terrible at it. 

[kieyra]

I'll voice the potentially unpopular opinion that I was happy to have Healey gone and was hoping he would stay that way. To me he was as problematic as Coates (this is the man who left Piper to be killed by Pennsatucky because she didn't fit ihis ideal of a proper (straight) woman), and I hated the quasi-romance arc with him and Red. 

Didn't he also get rid of that one counselor he felt threatened by? Birdie? Or did she actually do something wrong? Can't remember now. She was the one who ran the drama class.