Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Umbelina]

3 minutes ago, BooBear said:

She is his queen, he pledged loyalty to her. What is the point of that if he does what he wants. He has now forced her hand... the secret always puts her reign in doubt. Either keep it to yourself or die. Simple. 

1.  It's not her "reign."  She knows it should be his, by her "legal" logic.  She's a faker and a hypocrite.

2.  No one wants her there, except Jon and Tyrion, and after her latest murders, I doubt they want her there anymore either.

3.  She didn't ORDER him not to tell, she BEGGED him.  He didn't disobey shit.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Umbelina

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, BooBear said:

What? Everyone saw that... all the people up north and they shunned Dany for being who she was.. blood is non their hands. 

Most of them are dead.

That was a teeny tiny part of the 7 Kingdoms, the majority of whom never believed the Watchers on the Wall about it, so why would they believe some stranger?  Northerners and the south don't visit much.

[Eyes High]

5 hours ago, anamika said:

Tyrion is also the noblest of men on the show.

Kit predicted years ago that Tyrion was going to end up ruling Westeros because he was most qualified. So he was lying when he talked about how he never guessed the ending.

Tyrion is the only remaining character on the show who cares at all about the people of Westeros, so yeah, he is the most qualified at this point. As I said upthread, the person who actually gives a shit about the people of Westeros is the one who should be ruling them.

I really like the idea of Tyrion getting to build a better world without having to kowtow to tyrants and abusive assholes as he has had to do for his whole life, surrounded by people he can truly rely on, finally free of his toxic family. Good for him. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Eyes High

[chrisvee]

6 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

I admit I roll my eyes through most of their scenes, but I didn't see disgust, just his usual blank expression. I honestly can't tell whether he's turned on or disgusted in his loves scenes with Dany. Recently, he's been looking a little afraid of her but maybe it's just shock at the whole situation. Idk. But I shouldn't have to guess how he's feeling.

He could be an unsullied at this point. 

I read him as conflicted. He’s strong enough to not initiate, but when she initiates he responds, but then his brain kicks in and he rejects her.

Davos, Tyrion, and Jon all had the same role which was to be gob-smacked.

[anamika]

32 minutes ago, BooBear said:

If I were Dany I would fly on up to Winterfell and have Sansa, Samwell, and everyone else killed right now. They have proven the will stab her in the back for no good reason. 

No matter how sad and angry Sam was with what Dany did to his brother, he did not tell Jon's secret to anyone. Sam thinks Dany is unfit to be queen. And still, he understood this was Jon's secret to tell. Jon did not even have to swear him to silence. He kept that secret for Jon. Because Sam actually cares about Jon.

Sansa? Swearing in front of the Old Gods in the Godswood and then tattling to Tyrion so that she could  destroy Dany and put her brother in the snakepit that is KL? That's clearly treachery. And Dany has every right to get rid of her like she did Varys.

But the show's narrative seems to not allow Jon and Arya (last season) to get rightfully pissed off at all the shit Sansa does. And the showrunners trying to justify Sansa's nonsense. Last episode David Nutter was saying that Sansa did not really tell Tyrion about Jon's parentage and that she just implied it and Tyrion put 2 and 2 together, when in this episode Tyrion clearly states that Sansa told him.

[anamika]

25 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Tyrion is the only remaining character on the show who cares at all about the people of Westeros, so yeah, he is the most qualified at this point. As I said upthread, the person who actually gives a shit about the people of Westeros is the one who should be ruling them.

I really like the idea of Tyrion getting to build a better world without having to kowtow to tyrants and abusive assholes as he has had to do for his whole life, finally free of his toxic family. Good for him.

I would have enjoyed this ending more if he did not destroy Dany's entire campaign that she build up painstakingly over 6 seasons with his moronic advice to her over two seasons and his nonsensical trust in Cersei.

I would have had the same issue if Jon had ended up in charge considering how badly they have written him on the show and am glad that he fucks off to the North to be with Ghost and Tormund.

On the show, no one is fit to be in charge and rule Westeros. They are all petty, moronic, selfish and power hungry to varying levels. I think Gwendoline Christie was the one who mentioned that no character on the show deserved the Iron Throne at the end. And I agree.

Book Tyrion in charge of KL actually makes sense. As Hand of the King in KL he masterfully tackled ruling there and I doubt he is going to be similar to the show version - stupid and noble. One needs a certain ruthlessness to handle KL.

Edited May 13, 2019 by anamika

[cambridgeguy]

Why do I get the feeling someone on the writing staff was a big fan of the original X-Men trilogy?  Dany has gone full Dark Phoenix and Jon's going to Logan up and stab her to save further lives. 

[Stallion12]

17 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Why do I get the feeling someone on the writing staff was a big fan of the original X-Men trilogy?  Dany has gone full Dark Phoenix and Jon's going to Logan up and stab her to save further lives. 

It dies seem simular. 

[stagmania]

7 hours ago, Leila6 said:

More detail from the accurate spoilers:

On Jon killing Dany, he tone of it is very tragic. It's kind of like she's completely consumed by madness and he's saying how much he loves her and he's loyal to her, then he stabs her when he gets close enough. It's obviously traumatizing for him to do because he does love her. 

So they're going for the Buffy/Angel tragedy - sacrificing his love to save the world. Except they've written the romance so poorly that it's not going to land. I don't feel sad about this, I just feel angry.

6 hours ago, Umbelina said:

By the way, the episode title was "THE BELLS" so I guess us spoiled folk know why they withheld it.

Remember a week ago when we all laughed ourselves silly at the idea that she went mad at the sound of bells? Turns out it's a totally fair read on the scene. 

6 hours ago, Couver said:

That's my issue with it. Also the Targaryen legacy is always used against Dany. But people will be fine with a Lannister, son of Tywin and brother of the most recently Queen on the council.

If you want to really do something different then there shouldn't be any one from a major house on this council. And certainly not someone who is a corrupt person.

THIS. The council of fan favorite bros is straight out of bad fanfiction. 

6 hours ago, Lemuria said:

Besides, the ending to the series is totally not bittersweet. It’s hugely tragic. 

I guess the "sweet" part is that all the remaining Starks survive in some capacity. Pretty weak.

50 minutes ago, anamika said:

But the show's narrative seems to not allow Jon and Arya (last season) to get rightfully pissed off at all the shit Sansa does. And the showrunners trying to justify Sansa's nonsense. Last episode David Nutter was saying that Sansa did not really tell Tyrion about Jon's parentage and that she just implied it and Tyrion put 2 and 2 together, when in this episode Tyrion clearly states that Sansa told him.

Jon's complete non reaction to learning Sansa had immediately betrayed his trust was so frustrating. And you're right, it does feel like the show artificially constrains characters from reacting reasonably to Sansa's manipulations. 

41 minutes ago, anamika said:

I would have enjoyed this ending more if he did not destroy Dany's entire campaign that she build up painstakingly over 6 seasons with his moronic advice to her over two seasons and his nonsensical trust in Cersei.

This is what's driving me nuts about Tyrion's arc and why his ending ultimately does not sit right with me. He's been wrong about everything and proven to be a terrible strategist for the last three seasons. Where are the consequences for that? 

[lucindabelle]

Tyrion doesn’t deserve any kind of reward for caring about the “small folk.” He sure as hell didn’t care when it was his family doing the killing. Cersei exploded the sept. Any sane reaction would be to end the war as soon as posssible and get Mussolini off the throne but he tells dany to wait. As a result....

i knownhe WILL be a live and given a hero edit, but I loathe it.

she questioned his Lannister loyalty many times. And she was right. 

[Eyes High]

Costume watch:

Arya has yet to wear her grey outfit, seen on the TV Guide S8 covers.

Tyrion has yet to wear the Lannister outfit from the EW photo shoot. Given how formal it is, and what we now know about Tyrion being arrested in 8x06, I'm wondering whether it's the last thing he wears in the show. At the cover shoot, he's wearing a Hand pin. Is he Bran's Hand, or did they just give him the pin to avoid spoiling anything?

No remaining outfits seen elsewhere in promotional materials for Sansa, although it looks like her Dragonpit outfit is a new one, since it's missing a collar unlike her other dresses to date. (She also has a different hairstyle, with more braids.)

Gendry still has yet to wear the brown leather outfit Joe Dempsie was wearing in the BTS interviews. It must be from the Dragonpit scene.

User Afraidpart, who previously provided legit information (and who said 12 months ago that Jaime and Cersei would die holding each other), provided the following info about 8x06 (and I think this was just before 8x05 aired):

Quote

So I met my friend again, but I was so drunk last night I barely remember much - that being said:

At some point Dany is walking down stairs or something and Jon sees her and the dragon is behind her and it looks like she has giant dragon wings. Uh, not a spoiler, but it's cool apparently.

Dany doesn't get to actually sit on the throne. She touches it though.

Tyrion sits at the table or 'council' or something at the end? He seems to think this was cool or like, a reference to the beginning or something.

He doesn't know anything about Bran.

I asked him what he meant by "Jon Snow finally sees Arya" and he said it was just something he thought but then realized he was wrong about that (can't really delve into why, but he ended up realizing he was wrong), he was even confused when I brought it up. I wanted to clarify because SO MANY PEOPLE were arguing with each other about this lol

Cersei DOES die holding Jaime, and they get burned/something collapses on them or whatever, I don't remember. I already mentioned this but he was very certain this time so I'm bringing it up.

There's some sort of battle where there were the faces of the dead or something, I don't know if this makes sense?

I was very drunk so I'm actually surprised I retained any of this. He was way more in depth about the Mountain/Hound fight, but I forgot the details.

He also just confirmed a bunch of the other stuff I have written in my other posts (Tyrion and the badge being thrown, dragon carrying off Dany, the iron throne melting, etc).

Edited May 13, 2019 by Eyes High

[Heathrowe]

2 hours ago, BooBear said:

She saved them all from the night king at great cost to herself... what did she get for it?  Seeing her performance last night she could have stacked Kings landing two years ago and taken on the night king with ease. 

How did she save them all from the NK? Arya jumped out of a tree and killed him. They were losing before that. My big problem is I don't even know what the point was of bringing Dany and the dragons into that fight. Agree though-she should have moved on KL earlier and bypassed the North.

[galaxygirl76]

7 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

It’s more of the same though. How is this council any different then a King and his small council. It’s not. 

Yeah it really is. I am Groot is basically going to be king whether he gets elected king or not in my eyes it's the same. He doesn't seem to care much so the council, lead by Tyrion will be in charge and we spend 8 seasons about how men are corruptable by power so nothing new there either. 

I am pleased Davos is making it there and that he seems to get away unscathed from the writers character assassinations. He's in my top 3 book characters so this makes me happy. 

I swear I will rage forever and a day if this show ends with Jon finding evidence the Night King/white walkers are alive and it ends with him looking at that, music going dun dun duuuun, and ending with black screen of doom. I can see D&D thinking that would be edgy. 

I have never watched an episode of HIMYM since that finale, I get bitter just seeing the name in my tv's guide. I stopped watching Bones after something I hated happened and never revisited. I know how to hold grudges. If I'm not happy about this ending, I was so upset last night I wanted to cry, I can see GOT ending up like that for me. 

[stagmania]

8 minutes ago, Heathrowe said:

How did she save them all from the NK? Arya jumped out of a tree and killed him. They were losing before that. My big problem is I don't even know what the point was of bringing Dany and the dragons into that fight. Agree though-she should have moved on KL earlier and bypassed the North.

In the end, it seems like the only point was to delay her taking out Cersei until episode 5. Compelling stuff!

[Advance35]

I found it believable.  Dany's pathological need to be viewed as a savior is what sent her on a downward spiral.  The North/Westeros didn't love her just because.......and subsequent to that, we were shown who/what she is at her core.  A monster.   She didn't lose her mind, she just made the choice not to care about collateral damage.   She was aiming for Lannister soldiers but she didn't care if civilians (including women and children) were caught in the crossfire.

She's as big a monster as Cersei.

I don't feel blindsided and I think this was an organic turn for Dany.

Quote

Tyrion is the only remaining character on the show who cares at all about the people of Westeros, so yeah, he is the most qualified at this point. As I said upthread, the person who actually gives a shit about the people of Westeros is the one who should be ruling them.

Out of the remaining characters, he would definitely get my vote.  PD has been one of the pillars of the season and I can't wait to see what happens with him next week.  His scene with Varys was heartbreaking and his slow realization that Daenaerys is the monster Varys feared was sad.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Advance35

[kieyra]

First time spoiler reader.

Fucking Bronn on the council?

Okay, yeah, actor must be bros with the showrunners.

Whatever. 

[clack]

I have no problem with how things end up -- the problem is with the speed at which events happen and characters (particularly Dany) evolve.

Ideally, the whole Night King/final showdown plot should have taken up a full 12 episode season. Then, a 12 episode final season would have room for Euron, the Golden Company, Dany's growing isolation and paranoia. etc.

Everything is feeling too rushed.

Edited May 13, 2019 by clack

[QuinnM]

7 minutes ago, clack said:

Everything is feeling too rushed.

There was discussion and industry gossip about the number of episodes total, the number of seasons etc.  Was there a reason this had to be the last season?

[Bali]

On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 3:34 PM, Minneapple said:

I mean I do remember people being upset, and I think D&D mostly backed off the rape plots and gratuitous violence against women after that, but I don't recall people being as angry as they are now. People are acting like D&D murdered their dog and that the whole series is trash after one episode.

I did rage over the SanSan scene. It's so frustrating that you think they had learned about how to treat violence against women...and then you figure out they haven't learned a damn thing. Did they really make Sansa say she was thankful for her abusers? I mean REALLY? Just like their treatment of people of color. As upsetting as it was that Missandei was beheaded, it's actually more upsetting that she was completely ignored in the first three episodes of the season. These are clues that you know this show is written by two old white guys.

She did say that, and I see more than one side to that sort of thing. My husband and I went through hell before we met. But the one thing we always remind ourselves is that if we hadn't, we might not be able to appreciate what we have together. And what we have together is SO wonderful that I wouldn't trade it for anything in this world. So, am I glad? maybe not. But am I thankful that I've landed where I am, yes. And if that's what I had to go through to get her, then okay.

[Hanahope]

2 hours ago, stagmania said:

So they're going for the Buffy/Angel tragedy - sacrificing his love to save the world. Except they've written the romance so poorly that it's not going to land. I don't feel sad about this, I just feel angry.

Its hard to say there's any 'romance' or 'love' now when Jon is rejecting Dany (I guess because she's his aunt - though he has never said - he's just moody and leaves).

[stagmania]

37 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

There was discussion and industry gossip about the number of episodes total, the number of seasons etc.  Was there a reason this had to be the last season?

Benioff and Weiss wanted to be done and move on to other projects, so they chose to end the story in a limited number of episodes. HBO wanted 10 full seasons. Imagine how much better it would have been with show runners who were actually committed to seeing it through.

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Yeah it really is. I am Groot is basically going to be king whether he gets elected king or not in my eyes it's the same. He doesn't seem to care much so the council, lead by Tyrion will be in charge and we spend 8 seasons about how men are corruptable by power so nothing new there either. 

Groot has more personality than Branch.

[Advance35]

Though some complain about them, Ms. Clarke is still clearly, very much a fan of D&D.  Though she thinks the book has closed on Daenaerys Targaryen, she was apparently adamant that she would never revive the character, unless D&D were involved.

http://houston.culturemap.com/news/entertainment/05-11-19-emilia-clarke-nathalie-emmanuel-comicpalooza-houston-game-of-thrones-season-8-beyonce/

Apparently she's very loyal to them.  The quote is at the bottom of the article under "What's Next."

[Minneapple]

15 minutes ago, stagmania said:

 Benioff and Weiss wanted to be done and move on to other projects, so they chose to end the story in a limited number of episodes. HBO wanted 10 full seasons. Imagine how much better it would have been with show runners who were actually committed to seeing it through.

But I cannot imagine how bad this would have gotten over 10 seasons. Look at all the complaining we're doing. Over 10 bloody seasons? It would have been a tragedy. It's not like the show SUDDENLY GOT BAD this season. 

[stagmania]

4 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

But I cannot imagine how bad this would have gotten over 10 seasons. Look at all the complaining we're doing. Over 10 bloody seasons? It would have been a tragedy. It's not like the show SUDDENLY GOT BAD this season. 

The major reason it's so bad is that they tried to cram about 4 seasons worth of plot into 13 episodes, so no I don't think it would have been as bad as this. The real ideal would have been for D&D to hand off the show to writers who were still interested in it.

[Raachel2008]

14 minutes ago, stagmania said:

The major reason it's so bad is that they tried to cram about 4 seasons worth of plot into 13 episodes, so no I don't think it would have been as bad as this. The real ideal would have been for D&D to hand off the show to writers who were still interested in it.

Agreed. Even full seasons 7 and 8 would have give them more time to develop certain plots.

[Colorful Mess]

I dont think Jon loves her, I think he's saying anything he can to get her to not kill him and his family. 

He looks at his feet when he lies. He looked at his feet every time he said something he didn't mean.

He only tells her he loves her AFTER she burns Varys and threatens Sansa. 

He looked at his feet then too, and gave her more "my queen" b.s. Even she caught on that it's fake. 

I dont think this will be played like Buffy/Angel at this point. More like Joffrey/Sansa.

[HunterHunted]

4 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Why do I get the feeling someone on the writing staff was a big fan of the original X-Men trilogy?  Dany has gone full Dark Phoenix and Jon's going to Logan up and stab her to save further lives.

It might be that guy on staff who wrote X-Men Origins: Wolverine.

[Minneapple]

I think Jon loves Dany. I just wish Emilia and Kit had better onscreen chemistry. I think they could have better sold "tragic romance" if they weren't a black hole of chemistry. 

I wonder if I'll have the motivation to go back and read through nearly 300(!) pages of this thread and see our reactions to spoilers and spoiled speculation. It's almost over. WE WERE SO INNOCENT IN THE BEGINNING.

[Stallion12]

I'm still confused on how wrong friki was and HBO went after him.

[BadAssRobinArryn]

19 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

I'm still confused on how wrong friki was and HBO went after him.

They didn't do so after the Tyrion leaks. They only shut him down after he correctly spoiled the plot of 8x1. Not to mention that there still can be a Tyrion Trial. One leaker said that Dany arrests him for freeing Jamie, though I don't know anymore if it was a reliable leaker.

Edited May 13, 2019 by BadAssRobinArryn

[galaxygirl76]

1 minute ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

They didn't do so after the Tyrion leaks. They only shut him down after he correctly spoiled the plot of 8x1. Not to mention that there still can be a Tyrion Trial. One leaker said that Dany arrests him for freeing Jamie, though I don't know anymore if it was a reliable leaker.

I think that was part of the outline from the person who was right about last night. IIRC, she puts him on trial but Jon kills her before Tyrion gets toasted.

[Night Person]

RThe problem for me with Dany’s story arc is that her actions were SO over the top. I really don’t have an issue with her giving in to her dark side and committing acts that turn Jon and Tyrion against her.  If this is GRRM’s ending, D&D didn’t really have any other choice.

They could have had her torch the surrendering army and the Keep with Cersei inside. It would still have been morally horrifying to Jon and Tyrion because of the dishonor of killing a surrendering army and the loss of the innocent life when the Keep collapsed.  But Dany could have defended her actions by insisting that she would never be safe without destroying Cersei and her army. 

This would also have set up an even more difficult dilemma for Jon because there would be at least some justification for her actions.  As it is now, he shouldn’t have any qualms at all about killing her.

They went way too far by having her destroy the whole city and kill thousands of innocent people.  It just wasn’t believable. It totally felt to me like the primary goal was to shock the audience.  Plus all of the scenes of the dragon destroying the city got a little boring at the end.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Night Person

[Oscirus]

5 hours ago, anamika said:

I would have enjoyed this ending more if he did not destroy Dany's entire campaign that she build up painstakingly over 6 seasons with his moronic advice to her over two seasons and his nonsensical trust in Cersei.

I would have had the same issue if Jon had ended up in charge considering how badly they have written him on the show and am glad that he fucks off to the North to be with Ghost and Tormund.

On the show, no one is fit to be in charge and rule Westeros. They are all petty, moronic, selfish and power hungry to varying levels. I think Gwendoline Christie was the one who mentioned that no character on the show deserved the Iron Throne at the end. And I agree.

Book Tyrion in charge of KL actually makes sense. As Hand of the King in KL he masterfully tackled ruling there and I doubt he is going to be similar to the show version - stupid and noble. One needs a certain ruthlessness to handle KL.

As much as people blame Tyrion for his bad advice and while he should get some blame, people forget that Euron snuck up not once but twice on Dany and her allies in the middle of a war. That's bad execution and really other than the castle rock thing, wasn't really any bad advice implementation wise.

As for capture a wight plan which was yea, dumb, that was a group effort. It was def his bad idea, coupled with Jon's thought that people would put their differences aside in the middle of a war.  And as soon as they got caught, it should've been a too bad for you type sitch. 

Maybe she should've smoked the city and told tyrion to work his diplomatic magic earlier.  Maybe that works, maybe it doesn't, I reckon we'll never know.

So Tyrions hand, Sams maester, Davos is coin and Bronn's  War guy in the end?

[DarkRaichu]

New speculation:
What if the notes that Varys wrote were for Iron Bank and whoever in charge at Dorne.  And since we have time magic, in mere 2 days, all of them sent army (+elephants!) to back Jon.  The combined forced defeated Dany and put Jon on the Iron Throne.

The kicker is. the Iron Bank levied the cost of this backup army + Cersei's debt on Jon's administration.  Jon is bankrupt and has to go up north to live in shame (as a lumberjack) with Tormund and Ghost.

Sansa takes over the 7 kingdoms and moves the capital to Winterfell

She sends Arya wearing a Jon lookalike skin to Braavos to "negotiate" the term of the debt with the Iron Bank.

The last scene is of Iron Bank person (Mycroft) sitting in a diner with his spouse as you see Arya coming riding her white horse

The End

Seriously, I come up with these silly speculations just to see if GoT writers can come up with something worse.  So far they got me 2 for 2 😛

Edited May 13, 2019 by DarkRaichu

[CherryMalotte]

13 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Jon is bankrupt and has to go up north to live in shame (as a lumberjack) with Tormund and Ghost.

Jon might be down for that if he could skip and jump and press wild flowers.  

Sorry, couldn't resist.  

Back to the speculation...if the spoilers seem to be pretty much true about Jon and his coup de gras with the emotionally injured Dany (and pissed off, don't forget she's pissed) I think what will really set off that sword arm is her making another 'Your sister doesn't liiiiiiiikeeeee me' comment.   He's seen the fear side of her, and it's scaring him.  

[Shanna Marie]

On the question of why bother with Jon's true heritage, given the spoiled outcome, I think there's a big difference between a random bastard, even if he's been hailed King in the North (maybe especially if he's been hailed King in the North) slaying the rightful (if psychotic and cruel) queen and the rightful heir to the throne killing a tyrannical usurper.

With the former, there's probably yet another war for the throne all over again. With the latter, he has at least some authority to declare enough, get rid of the throne, set up some other form of government and remove himself from contention to truly break the cycle. Yeah, there's always going to be some squabbling because people, but at least this way there's a chance of changing things.

And maybe the constant battles for the throne are the true "Long Night," so that Jon ending that is him fulfilling his destiny, being the prince who ended the cycle of wars.

[Raachel2008]

46 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

What if the notes that Varys wrote were for Iron Bank and whoever in charge at Dorne.  And since we have time magic, in mere 2 days, all of them sent army (+elephants!) to back Jon.  The combined forced defeated Dany and put Jon on the Iron Throne.

I think he was senting letters to Dorne, Riverrun, the Vale, etc trying to bring them to his plan of supporting Jon as king. 

[Raachel2008]

38 minutes ago, CherryMalotte said:

Back to the speculation...if the spoilers seem to be pretty much true about Jon and his coup de gras with the emotionally injured Dany (and pissed off, don't forget she's pissed) I think what will really set off that sword arm is her making another 'Your sister doesn't liiiiiiiikeeeee me' comment.   He's seen the fear side of her, and it's scaring him.  

Nope, I think it will be seeing Arya in the crowd. The teaser after the episode showed Arya behind the Unsullied in formation, and there was a spoiler saying that "Jon SEES Arya". I think he will see Arya in the crowd, realize that his sister almost died, and it will finally sink in that Dany is a tyrant that won't stop, that nobody will ever be safe anymore and kill her. I mean, the massacre already showed him that, but seeing Arya will made Jon accepet that no ammount of talk wil ever change Dany's mind. 

[Lemuria]

8 hours ago, BooBear said:

Jon had not betrayed her... she wouldn't have this problem right now. 

Are you saying that Jon’s telling his family—two members of which kept their word not to reveal it and one of whom decided to betray him for her own “irrepressible ambition and desire to rule—who he really is, is the reason Dany burnt KL to the ground? Then she wasn’t very stable to begin with, was she? Not to mention that it’s a pretty misogynistic idea. Dany could have chosen to go with, “They’re not crazy about me right now? Well, I’ll win their affections,” rather than choosing “I’ll force them to love me.”

In the end, her choices were her own. 

But even if Jon had kept silent, do you think, after the destruction of the city, that Sam would have?  Or for that matter, Arya and Bran?

[QuinnM]

1 minute ago, Raachel2008 said:

Nope, I think it will be seeing Arya in the crowd.

I need to look closer at the teaser.  If she looks like she did when she rode out of KL then it's pretty scary for someone that cares about her.  She looks rougher than she did killing the NK.

[Jextella]

I know the spoilers have Dany getting killed, but is there a case to be made for an ending that has Dany taking/keeping the iron throne?

Maybe she kills Jon Snow.   There would inevitably be some sort of rebellion years down the road, but for now, could it be she stays alive and rules?

Edited May 13, 2019 by Jextella

[onyxrose81]

Just now, Jextella said:

I know the spoilers have Dany getting killed, but is there a case to be made for an ending that has Dany taking/keeping the iron throne?

Maybe she kills Jon Snow.   There would inevitably be some sort of rebellion.

Nope.  She dead.

[Raachel2008]

4 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

I need to look closer at the teaser.  If she looks like she did when she rode out of KL then it's pretty scary for someone that cares about her.  She looks rougher than she did killing the NK.

[Stallion12]

6 minutes ago, Jextella said:

I know the spoilers have Dany getting killed, but is there a case to be made for an ending that has Dany taking/keeping the iron throne?

Maybe she kills Jon Snow.   There would inevitably be some sort of rebellion.

It's pretty clear the leaks are mostly right, small details might be missed. For example, I doubt he's going to the watch, but he will go north, and I think it'll be a council with bran, not just bran king. However it won't deviate far from the outline, unless multiple endings were filmed and they chose another.

[QuinnM]

6 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

Thanks, hate when I'm away from media.  That's not a pretty face nor is it a happy one.  I remember from the teaser that Davos and John were walking through it together and then Tyrion alone.  This isn't going to end well. (Yes I know I keep saying that)

[lucindabelle]

So do we believe Jon kills dany and drogon flies away with her or is it Jon kills dany and she comes back to life or what? 

[Jextella]

2 hours ago, QuinnM said:

I need to look closer at the teaser.  If she looks like she did when she rode out of KL then it's pretty scary for someone that cares about her.  She looks rougher than she did killing the NK.

2 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

I thought of PTSD throughout all of Arya's scenes.

Masie Williams is a really great actress, I think.   

I've always thought that good child actors often don't grow up to be good adult actors.

Masie and Sophie are exceptions - but especially Masie.   It's hard to tell with Bran!

Edited May 13, 2019 by Jextella

[Colorful Mess]

3 hours ago, Minneapple said:

I think Jon loves Dany. I just wish Emilia and Kit had better onscreen chemistry. I think they could have better sold "tragic romance" if they weren't a black hole of chemistry. 

I wonder if I'll have the motivation to go back and read through nearly 300(!) pages of this thread and see our reactions to spoilers and spoiled speculation. It's almost over. WE WERE SO INNOCENT IN THE BEGINNING.

I dont think its a tragic romance at all. I think its a hostage situation with Dany as the abuser. That's what it always was from the first moment they met. He says zero words except "My queen" and "as you command." Dany's character arc is tragic, but their "thing" isn't real, because Jon always feared her. In that context you can't trust anything he says because he's just trying to survive her. She flipped out partly because she realized he doesn't love her. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Colorful Mess

[QuinnM]

1 minute ago, Jextella said:

I thought of PTSD throughout all of Arya's scenes.

I also thought of CTE.  She got her melon bounced off a wall by one of the dead maybe a week ago?  It's hard to say because Dany wouldn't give her time to recuperate.  During her run through the streets she was out cold in one fall and obviously disoriented when she came out at the end.  And that goes to the actress as well since it was obvious that the character was overwhelmed.