S01.E13: Chapter Thirteen: The Sweet Hereafter

[Old House Nut]

I like Fred, and I hope he is around in Season 2. HOWEVER, it is a painfully gimmicky gimmick when someone faces a shooter who is purposefully aiming his gun at a victim was is shot but then is seen in a hospital's ER at the start of the next season with everyone pacing around the waiting room for news from a doctor. I'm no marksman, but it is totally absurd to think that Fred wouldn't have been dead on the spot. 

Edited May 13, 2017 by Old House Nut

[Bruinsfan]

On 5/12/2017 at 9:55 AM, Dee said:

Since Riverdale is committed to the "Core 4" and Kevin they're never gonna be anything more than tertiary characters at best.

Reggie is also a core character in the source material though, and I gather might have been so in the show if not for Ross Butler's scheduling issues.

On 5/12/2017 at 10:44 AM, starri said:

...did Cheryl remember to let her Grandma out of the attic first?

I wish we'd seen Nana Blossom cackling and wheeling herself out of the flames unsinged!

On 5/12/2017 at 1:30 PM, Scott said:

I was mostly just amazed that a bunch of horny 15-year-olds are having such cinematic sex, when in real life, Archiekins would likely have, um, shot his "pep" before Veronica had her shoes off.

As others have pointed out, Archie probably got enough after-school tutoring to resolve that issue. There might not have been anything for the Serpents to interrupt if they'd caught a red light on the way over to Jughead's, though.

On 5/12/2017 at 1:51 PM, maxineofarc said:

That Riverdale, which we're constantly told is a small town, has both a "south side" whose residents apparently aren't invited to the town jubilee and a whole extra high school, is unlikely. I lived in a town of ~6000 as a kid and we and the surrounding towns (the surrounding towns were quite a bit smaller in population) had to join forces in a regional high school. It would make more sense if this was sort of a Springfield/Shelbyville situation with the "south side" a different town entirely.

My hometown had about 50,000 people when I was a teenager, and had both a central high school and a smaller one for the "wrong side of the tracks" downtrodden part of town. People on the coasts tend to forget there's middle ground between vast metropolis and scarcely-populated wasteland.

[Last Time Lord]

4 hours ago, The Crazed Spruce said:

I'm partial to Andre The Black Nerd's videos, myself.

 

I think we should be best friends.

[Scott]

5 hours ago, morakot said:

You forget that Archie spent the summer satisfying Miss Grundy so he should have some experience in slowing down.

I absolutely did my best to forget about her storyline completely, and evidently it worked a little too well.

[ottoDbusdriver]

On 5/11/2017 at 10:25 PM, The Crazed Spruce said:

Anyone else think that the entire group should've fallen in the friggin' lake? I mean, they know the ice is thin, and they all scramble onto it, and even huddle in one spot, even though it's broken in two places, and is even cracking under their feet!

Stunned as a box of rocks, as my late mother would say....

Hey Archie -- did you think of maybe trying to use your foot to break through the ice, what with the fact that it was protected by a shoe.

Archie's song SUCKED !!!  Why does Josie keep egging him on with how great it is ?
And why was Veronica on stage at the microphone with the Pussycats, but not singing.

If they really wanted to make it a true cliffhanger they should have faded to black after the exterior view of Pop's when the gunshot went off.
I guess now we're never going to find out Fred's important news was.  Or why the thief left all that money behind on the floor by Fred ?

Edited May 14, 2017 by ottoDbusdriver

[rho]

There are so many things about this show that I love. Like the wardrobe and the cool neon aesthetic. I'm looking forward to Hiram getting out next season and how he fits into the Riverdale dynamic. Plus the Serpents taking Jughead as one of their own. So many interesting things are happening.

The only downer is Archie's fucking music subplot. This last one sounded like Christian rock and it totally makes me doubt Josie's music credibility when she decided to let him perform that instead. I'm so over it. Such a shame too, because the actor who plays Archie is adorable and charming as hell. But all I ever do it eyeroll at him.

[queenanne]

On 5/12/2017 at 2:43 PM, ZoloftBlob said:

So, frankly I was disappointed in this episode. Yes, we get a whole lotta crazy and excitement and so much of it makes utterly no sense at all. Why did Papa Blossom blow Jason's brains out? Why did Hermoine do a sudden heel turn on Fred? Why in this town that's quintessentially small is there more than one high school? And the other high school is a gritty urban hell hole? Complete with uniformed gangs? (I seriously expected the Riffs and the Warriors to be throwing down in the cafeteria). I can kinda buy Jughead finally being on Child Services radar after FP's arrest for horrific murder (the first murder in small town Riverdale in ages, which means apparently the Serpents and the kids from Urban Hellhole High are law abiding despite all the drugs in the syrup) but really, the family friend that the kid is already living with isn't good enough to foster parent because of a DUI arrest? And while Archie was bandaged up professionally, after a near death suicide attempt, Cheryl Blossom gets... nothing but a brief moment by the fire? No one took her to the hospital? No one told her mom or a teacher or a parent that she tried to kill herself and almost took four other kids with her in the frozen river? I don't mind melodrama at all but it needs to be *faintly realistic*. And of all the people to shoot, of course its Fred.

LOLing at "Urban Hellhole High".  Good to know that everyone can cut school at a moment's notice even if it's Jughead, on his first day.  Oh well - guess he might drop out and join the Serpents, no?  Cole Sprouse is really impressive,  I mean parts of me guesses he should be impressive, as he's been acting all his life, but it's a good lesson as to what experience and training can give you before thrusting yourself upon the world stage, so to speak...  Mourning the death of the beautifully baroque Blossom mansion.

Ugh, Madchen Amick even cries pretty.  Disgusting! :)  Conversely, who went nutbars in the makeup department with the half-face of clownish fuchsia blusher on everyone this week?  Betty at the dance, Hermione in the hall, Josie onstage...

It would make sense if they ditched Fred apart from logistics, because it had seemed odd that Hermione was going to queue up with her almost-love and her husband in the same town, but I refuse to be left with the particularly bad acting that is Molly Ringwald.  Maybe Juggy's foster family can take Archiekins.

On 5/12/2017 at 2:51 PM, maxineofarc said:

Does Val just not have anything else to say since she dumped Archie? FIGURE THIS OUT, SHOW.

That was embarrassing.  I mean, she wasn't even allowed to react to the fact he was caught making out with Veronica!  I mean, the actress did/does, because she's not an idiot, but they can't even be nice enough to give a closeup for this reaction shot.

11 hours ago, starri said:

In all honesty:  this weird little show on the CW had a group of teenagers handling a love polygon better than most shows with actual adult characters.  What a refreshing surprise.

This is because they're committing to it, which I applaud them for.  So many other shows, you can see the puppetry and strings going on behind the scenes as they angle for the "chemistry fit" that will make SM and message boards explode, largely by dint of switching up the characters' love interests or interactions once every episode.  Look, showrunners, I've no problem with the experimentation, but at least give us a chance to explore it before piling on like the "Meetings" all contain scenes where the hero/ine is looking over their shoulder at the "Partings" portion of the manual.  I'm glad they're not going all dog-in-manger about every relationship.

[Chas411]

I definetly got vibes that Archie was into Betty this episode. I think he really likes Veronica but he strikes me as the type who's always going to be more interest by what he doesn't have. 

[STFUFrank]

On 5/12/2017 at 11:17 AM, Eneya said:

This is like PLL when the youngest Sasha looked the oldest.

What are the actors ages?

KJ (Archie) is 19 (I think he'll be 20 soon)

Camila (Veronica) - 22

Lili (Betty) - 21

Cole (Jughead) - 24

Ross (S1 Reggie) was the oldest at 26. I'm not sure how old his successor is. 

[Eneya]

29 minutes ago, TotalHellion said:

KJ (Archie) is 19 (I think he'll be 20 soon)

Camila (Veronica) - 22

Lili (Betty) - 21

Cole (Jughead) - 24

Ross (S1 Reggie) was the oldest at 26. I'm not sure how old his successor is. 

Thank you. :)
OKay, I can live with this. :) I survived Troian Belissario playing a 17 year old while she was... 27(?), I will survive this. :)

[Dee]

1 hour ago, TotalHellion said:

KJ (Archie) is 19 (I think he'll be 20 soon)

Camila (Veronica) - 22

Lili (Betty) - 21

Cole (Jughead) - 24

Ross (S1 Reggie) was the oldest at 26. I'm not sure how old his successor is. 

Actually, Ashleigh Murray (Josie) is the oldest, at 29

[Chas411]

I forget she's even in the show since she never seems to do anything bar encourage Archies awful music. Hopefully she gets more next year.

[methodwriter85]

There's an interview where they talk about Suite Life, and KJ said he loved that show when he was little. The interviewer quickly adds that he wasn't THAT little as if to maintain the illusion that KJ and Cole are the same generation. LOL. (By some standards, Cole is a Millennial while KJ is among the first of the Generation Z.)

[truthaboutluv]

28 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

The interviewer quickly adds that he wasn't THAT little as if to maintain the illusion that KJ and Cole are the same generation. LOL.

They are four/five years apart, so I don't think it's an illusion to suggest that they are essentially from the same generation. They were both born in the 90's, and essentially both grew up in the 2000's. And yeah K.J. was probably young while watching Suite Life because it's not like Cole himself was an adult when he was doing Suite Life. He and his brother started that show at like 12/13. 

[Bruinsfan]

Did anyone else crack up when Penelope had that line about her husband in the "sweet hereafter"? He murdered his own son in cold blood and then [allegedly] killed himself—if there's anything sweet in his hereafter it'll be the honey getting poured on him before he's tied down next to the infernal equivalent to an anthill!

Edited May 14, 2017 by Bruinsfan

[pamplemousse]

13 hours ago, rho said:

There are so many things about this show that I love. Like the wardrobe and the cool neon aesthetic. I'm looking forward to Hiram getting out next season and how he fits into the Riverdale dynamic. Plus the Serpents taking Jughead as one of their own. So many interesting things are happening.

The only downer is Archie's fucking music subplot. This last one sounded like Christian rock and it totally makes me doubt Josie's music credibility when she decided to let him perform that instead. I'm so over it. Such a shame too, because the actor who plays Archie is adorable and charming as hell. But all I ever do it eyeroll at him.

 

I like the aesthetic and look of the show too -- it reminds me of Edward Hopper's art, specifically Nighthawks, mixed in with the throwback '80s chic of "Drive." I wonder if that may actually be the production designers' intent/inspiration.

I had to FF through Archie's musical performance. He's not a terrible singer, I've heard much worse, but the musical montages just don't work for me. I hope Josie & the Pussycats are more integrated into the show next season instead of just showing up for the musical montages and usually to be Archie's backing band.

I don't think I'm in the demographics that Cole Sprouse is appealing to, but I certainly see why so many people (my gf included) are gaga over him. I know nothing about the Disney show he was on, but he's definitely got the brooding yet vulnerable James Dean-ish (ok, maybe James Dean-lite at this point, so young Johnny Depp or Matt Dillon?) thing working for him. He and the actress who plays Betty have a really solid and nostalgic chemistry that reminds me of Diane Lane/Matt Dillon in films like The Outsiders or Rumble Fish. I never care much about "ships" in shows aimed at teen audiences (I'm guessing teens and maybe early 20s are what most shows on the CW are geared to? I don't know, I don't watch CW shows except for this one), mostly because they seem to switch romantic configurations and partners around so much, but Betty/Jughead spark -- probably because of the actors since I think the show's writers have given them some corny lines throughout the season but they manage to carry them off. 

I do hope that Archie was being sincere and telling the truth when he told Veronica that he looked at Betty & Jughead longingly because he wants that with Veronica, and not because he has romantic feelings for Betty. I still remember the -- was it? -- first episode when he made Betty cry after he told her that he loved her as a friend and doesn't have romantic feelings for her. Dude, sit down, shut up, stay away from Betty except in a friends capacity, and be happy with Veronica who is way better than you deserve. I actually like Archie but his grass-is-greener mentality when it comes to the young women he's lucky to have in his life is annoying. Archie and Veronica are good together, he has the most chemistry with her, so I hope there's not too much Archie/Betty in the future because I have a feeling they would be deadly boring together although they make good friends. Archie/Betty come across too siblings-ish for my taste, more so than Cheryl and her odd relationship with Jason.

Fred better not be dead. My gf and I started watching this show not for the teens but for the stellar collection of actors that we remember were the hot young things back in the '90s  -- Luke Perry, Madchen Amick, Marisol Nichols, Skeet Ulrich.

[Eneya]

4 hours ago, Dee said:

Actually, Ashleigh Murray (Josie) is the oldest, at 29

She is what now? Damn... I thought the most surprising age was that of Lane from The Gilmore Girls (34 or something?) but this is close second... she DEFINITELY doesn't look her years. Oh, god... is she the next immortal Bianca Lawson, forever doomed to play a teen?

[luna1122]

I was only able to watch this yesterday, so I'm way behind...but what a great episode. First, I love (as usual) all the film/tv allusions. The title, The Sweet Hereafter...that's one of my top five favorite movies ever, I firmly believe it's also one of Jughead's.  The Breakfast Club slide/scramble as Archie, Betty and Veronica went running to find Jug at his new school. Veronica referencing "Prince Valium" ala Lydia Deetz in Beetlejuice. "This isn't the wire". "Save the cheerleader...". Fun.

I still feel slightly squicky about crushing so hard on Cole Sprouse, but DAYUM. Him throwing Betty up on the counter and tearing each other's clothes off...I was never so annoyed by a knock on the door before. But then Jug slid on that Serpent jacket and managed to look even hotter.

I really hope Fred's not dead. (is there a movie allusion/Drop Dead Fred joke there somewhere?)

[TheLastKidPicked]

4 hours ago, luna1122 said:

First, I love (as usual) all the film/tv allusions.

We have a theory about this at our house.  There seems to be two distinct demographics here:  The teenagers, obviously.  But also the parents of these teenage viewers who get to enjoy the references to their childhoods.  This way parents can enjoy talking about the show with the kids.

Are any of you seeing that cross-generational viewership at your houses?

[pamplemousse]

11 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I still feel slightly squicky about crushing so hard on Cole Sprouse, but DAYUM. Him throwing Betty up on the counter and tearing each other's clothes off...I was never so annoyed by a knock on the door before. But then Jug slid on that Serpent jacket and managed to look even hotter.

 

My gf has been making comments all season that he looks like a young Leonardo DiCaprio circa Titanic era. I have noticed that Cole Sprouse and Leo have very similar-sounding voices, at least to my ears. 

[phoenics]

Well - I finally caught up.  Just now.  Someone mentioned this show in the race and ethnicity thread and while I still think the concerns people had about token diversity are still VERY well founded (I really hope they resolve some of the glaring issues I noticed in a longer season) - I really do like this show.  I think it came on one night after The Flash or something and I got sucked in immediately.  But that was well into the season so I had to go back and catch up.

And I finally caught up.

Whoo boy - this show is a humdinger.

First of all - I never watched that Suite Life show, so I had no idea who Cole Sprouse was.  At all.  But Jughead is probably my favorite character, with Betty/Veronica tied at second and then the adults and somewhere down the line... Archie.  Cole Sprouse - I cannot believe that's the kid/twin from Suite Life (I mean I knew OF the show, but never watched and didn't know who the actor(s) were)... he's AH-MA-ZING.

AMAZING.  I LOVE that he does the narration for the story because he grounds the story so well.  I LOVE Jughead as a character and I'm shipping Bughead super hard.  I wonder if that was the writers' original intent because I figure it probably wasn't.  I don't know if they plan to have Archie waffle back and forth between Betty and Veronica like a young Ridge Forrester, but I sincerely hope not.  

Honestly - the moment they centered Jughead - this might as well have been renamed Jughead comics because that guy is IT for me.

And PLEASE GOD NO don't let Dyl - I mean Fred - die.  Please don't do that show.  Better would be to have Fred in a coma or with steep medical bills that can only be paid by letting the Lodges buy him out.  Then he has to start over and it creates a huge rift between Archie and Veronica.  

Count me among the others who thinks that Hermione Lodge is actually the real big bad here.  How do we know that Hiram actually did what he did to end up in jail?  How do we know it wasn't Hermione and Hiram simply took the fall.  Or - maybe Hiram did the dirty work for his family, a la Cookie on Empire?  And now that he's getting out, Hermione is preparing the way for him so that he won't out her or uproot what she has built?  She seemed WAY too comfortable going dark.  Honestly I think while she thought Hiram offed Jason, she was being the "good wife and mom" and very reserved - except for a few things here or there.  But then the moment she knew he was innocent, it's like her claws came out, or her mask fell off and she did a 180.

I think she's the villainess - less so than Hiram.  Either that or they are equally bad.  Poor Ronnie.

I have a soft spot for Veronica and Betty's friendship - I love seeing them as friends - two women... yay!  I wish The Flash would take note.  Anyway - I love them and I love the friendship between the four of them.

Bughead!  What!  That love scene caught me completely off guard - as did the profession of love.  Cole Sprouse is a National Treasure - the way he said it was just SOOOOOO intense... I honestly think that if the show plays its cards right, they could have another Blair Waldorf and Chuck Bass coupling on their hands - not that Betty and Jug are like Blair and Chuck - just that the show wasn't originally going there but decided to because of Leighton's and Ed's chemistry (and thank goodness they did).  I hope the show does the same with Bughead - GO with them, show!

I'm sure they'll dabble with Archie/Betty at some point, but I think they'd be better off bringing back a recast Reggie to vie for Ronnie's attention, once the strain of whatever happened with Fred/Archie at the hands of the Lodges causes a rift with Archie/Ronnie.

I did like Archie saving Cheryl - but he's just not doing it for me.  I like Archie well enough, but I'm not drawn to him (though I don't mind seeing him shirtless) as much as I am Jughead.  I'm riveted in Jug scenes... 

Cheryl - oh bless your heart.  I love you and your crazy self.  I can't wait to see what shenanigans you get up to next year.  I was cheering when she burned that house down - her mama is awful.  Burn, baby, burn!!  She did telegraph "I AM GOING TO KILL MYSELF" pretty loudly.  Everything she was doing reeked of "getting her affairs in order" and "making things right with all those she had wronged", lol.  She's so dramatic, lol.

Now some of the bad:  Show - Please please please stop writing Josie and the Pussycats as glorified extras.  And really - they couldn't give Valerie some face time when they caught Archie and Ronnie kissing?  And has the other Pussycat EVER spoken a word?

For a show that is aware enough of itself to actually have two women characters invoke the Bechdel Test in a conversation, can they NOT see how awful they are being to their characters of color other than Hermione and Ronnie?  Specifically the black female characters?  Feminism isn't feminism unless it's intersectional show.  Get it together.

Also I have to agree with posters who have mentioned how the "bad" guys on the show:  The Serpents, etc.. and the bad kids on the bad side of town, etc., Jughead, actually seem to be the good ones at heart, while the richer "good" folks on the show engage in all sorts of tomfoolery and basically get away with it.

Notice how Clif Blossom (cliffhanger, get it?  haha) framed Hiram and the Serpents - who had already been cast by the show as the "bad guys" from the beginning and then had them all take the fall for him murdering his own son?

I wonder if that's foreshadowing Hiram actually being presumed guilty, but it's really Hermione who has been behind all of that.

[Snookums]

Quote

. I adore how Archie saved Cheryl, but I wish there had been more follow up to her suicide attempt

As do I, because not to put to fine a point on it, Cheryl should have been stone cold dead.  Snuffed it! Bought the farm! Shuffled off this mortal coil and joined the choir invisible! Water that cold will kill you in seconds. She should have had a heart attack just from the shock, not floating around like a Nordic mermaid and hallucinating her dead-ass brother! Both she and Archie should have been in the ICU under heating blankets and getting saline drips, not sitting in front of fireplaces and merrily playing their Earnest Rock in the latest talent show! (At least Archie got a proper cast on his damn hand.)  

Not to mention that apparently not one adult, including Cheryl's remaining parent, in this sorry viper pit of a town even knows about this! NOT COOL, SHOW. I get that Veronica and the others aren't professional counselors versed in suicidal ideation (quitting things formerly important to someone and their giving away possessions are signs to watch out for) and the rescue was written far more for drama than realism, but there is no way a bunch of teenagers, no matter how good they are at solving murder mysteries, should be asked to shoulder the burden of caring for a mentally spiraling teenager. That is WAY above any high schooler's pay grade. Treating Cheryl's attempt to end her life, no matter how purple and floridly written and enacted, as just another one of her "crazy" quirks does a huge disservice to a very real issue. 

Okay, off the soapbox. Moving on...

FRED! NO! But I'm not really worried, because of the way Archie leaped in front of him, obviously making the shooter's aim go wild and hitting Fred in the side instead of the head or heart. Not that getting shot is a good idea at any time but I'm sure this will be a "coma for two episodes" and then Fred will be recovering (after at least one attempt on his life in the hospital) and his near-death brush will be the big mystery solve for season two. Hopefully this will recruit Archie fully into the Teen Gang and they can phase out the whole music thing.

(Because that performance at the Jubilee was--a lot of okayness. I was way more focused on the fact that Valerie doesn't even get a line with Archiekins and both Veronica and Silent Melody are singing backup without opening their mouths. There was no reason for the Pussycats to be onstage except their absence was getting pretty glaring.)

Thank you whoever posted that Cole is 24 because I feel slightly less filthy drooling over him. He and Betty are thick as syrup with the chemistry. And when he put on the jacket? Wowsers. I said aloud "Girl, if you weren't gone on him before, you are now." 

As long as Alice is revealing secrets left and right, I wish she'd get into how she was Homecoming Queen of Riverdale High while also hanging with the Serpents of South Side. What is the timeline here??? They keep hinting about this big past with HP and her but when was this? When they were both ten? I guess we can ask Nana Blossom, the chronicler of the town secrets, if she escaped that fire.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Riverdale Raises A Milkshake To Its Best And Brightest

The season finale sees one life saved, another (perhaps) lost, and a raging inferno at Crimson Peak.

[Affogato]

On 5/13/2017 at 5:54 PM, Bruinsfan said:

My hometown had about 50,000 people when I was a teenager, and had both a central high school and a smaller one for the "wrong side of the tracks" downtrodden part of town. People on the coasts tend to forget there's middle ground between vast metropolis and scarcely-populated wasteland.

Not exactly, but I think the term 'small town' threw me, anyway. I would think of that as large town....Sorry if offended. As a bruinsfan aren't you on a coast?

[Snookums]

Quote

- and as we further ponder how it became winter in Riverdale literally overnight,

That might explain why not one character has appropriate winter wear! It's bad enough when the kids are walking around town in light spring jackets, or when Archie rescued Cheryl wearing a hoodie, but when Betty was getting ready for the Jubilee she is wearing a light, sleeveless shirt that's for midsummer! Hermione and Veronica are also dedicated to the bare arms look past any point of reason. No wonder this town's crazy--they're all freezing to death.

[pamplemousse]

In uni I had a close friend originally from upstate NY and he used to always be in his shirt sleeves on what was pretty cold days to everyone else. He said where he grew up, anything above 30 degrees Fahrenheit was considered "warm weather," which surprised me. I wonder if Riverdale is supposed to be in that area of the United States and trying for verisimilitude, the actors are dressed inappropriately for the weather on purpose (because let's be real, they're all dressed as if they live in L.A., although I guess the show is filmed in Vancouver or something?)

Edited May 16, 2017 by pamplemousse

[Bruinsfan]

Quote

As a bruinsfan aren't you on a coast?

No, but the hockey team I root for is.

I've heard communities the size of mine referred to as small towns before by people who think anything with less than a couple million is a one-horse town. I've found that screenwriters have NO idea what sort of businesses can be supported by what size town/city. Small towns that don't even have their own city police force don't have luxury apartment buildings with doormen, and they sure can't support an active nightclub scene.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Bruinsfan

[SeanC]

Things like Riverdale having expensive apartment buildings and nightclubs, etc. is pretty much in the tradition of fictional TV towns that gradually acquire whatever the writers feel the story needs at a given moment.  Look at Sunnydale on Buffy, for instance, which acquired everything from an airport to docks to a UC campus over the years.

[secnarf]

15 hours ago, Snookums said:

Not to mention that apparently not one adult, including Cheryl's remaining parent, in this sorry viper pit of a town even knows about this! NOT COOL, SHOW. I get that Veronica and the others aren't professional counselors versed in suicidal ideation (quitting things formerly important to someone and their giving away possessions are signs to watch out for) and the rescue was written far more for drama than realism, but there is no way a bunch of teenagers, no matter how good they are at solving murder mysteries, should be asked to shoulder the burden of caring for a mentally spiraling teenager. That is WAY above any high schooler's pay grade. Treating Cheryl's attempt to end her life, no matter how purple and floridly written and enacted, as just another one of her "crazy" quirks does a huge disservice to a very real issue.

I thought this storyline started off really well - illustrating the signs to look out for, and what this might look like. Making amends, giving away prized possessions, withdrawal from activities, not necessarily outwardly depressed (may be peaceful), etc. are all signs that people learn but it's easier for younger viewers to understand and remember when they see it. And really, anybody who did not see Cheryl's suicide attempt from a mile away desperately needs to familiarize themselves with these signs.

I was less impressed with the text to Veronica (which struck me as more of a cry for help, not so much in keeping with her previous behaviour), and thoroughly annoyed at the lack of repercussions, but I am giving them a pass on this since Cheryl did burn the house down and repercussions for that and the suicide attempt may come in season 2. I'm not so sure it was passed of as one of her quirks, but I did feel there were inadequate consequences.

I'll have to go back and re-watch, but I wonder if the burning the house down was intended to be a murder-suicide.

[Snookums]

Quote

I've heard communities the size of mine referred to as small towns before by people who think anything with less than a couple million is a one-horse town. I've found that screenwriters have NO idea what sort of businesses can be supported by what size town/city. Small towns that don't even have their own city police force don't have luxury apartment buildings with doormen, and they sure can't support an active nightclub scene.

GAHHHH THIS. If Riverdale were a small town enmeshed with several others, I could see a more cosmopolitan side to the place. But if it's isolated enough to only have a County Sheriff as its law enforcement and no city/town police, it  does not contain penthouses and high fashion nightclubs! Under The Dome made me nuts in this regard, too--the zoning was beyond ridiculous and into clinically insane.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Snookums

[Mabinogia]

12 minutes ago, Sonoma said:

With Riverdale, a dome can fall upon it, cannibalistic humanoids can be lurking on the outskirts, a zombie apocalypse can break out, vampires and witches can start sucking blood and casting spells... and I wouldn't bat an eyelash as long as Betty, Veronica, Jughead, Archie, Kevin, FP, Alice, etc. were around doing what they do while an eyelash or nail or lip gets two coats of Cover Girl to the tune of a 80s/90s/00s cover.

This. Completely! I am so in love with these characters and this insane town that I don't care what storylines they roll with and really, the crazier the better. If I find out tomorrow that The Lodge highrise is next door to Betty's house, that's fine. Maybe some whacky waffle magnet renovated his house to be a high rise. Who knows. Just have over aged teenagers wafting around in crazy outfits doing whacky things and I'm in. And Alice. I need Alice being her batshit awesome self and I'm good.

[jay741982]

19 hours ago, Snookums said:

As do I, because not to put to fine a point on it, Cheryl should have been stone cold dead.  Snuffed it! Bought the farm! Shuffled off this mortal coil and joined the choir invisible! Water that cold will kill you in seconds. She should have had a heart attack just from the shock, not floating around like a Nordic mermaid and hallucinating her dead-ass brother! Both she and Archie should have been in the ICU under heating blankets and getting saline drips, not sitting in front of fireplaces and merrily playing their Earnest Rock in the latest talent show! (At least Archie got a proper cast on his damn hand.)  

Not to mention that apparently not one adult, including Cheryl's remaining parent, in this sorry viper pit of a town even knows about this! NOT COOL, SHOW. I get that Veronica and the others aren't professional counselors versed in suicidal ideation (quitting things formerly important to someone and their giving away possessions are signs to watch out for) and the rescue was written far more for drama than realism, but there is no way a bunch of teenagers, no matter how good they are at solving murder mysteries, should be asked to shoulder the burden of caring for a mentally spiraling teenager. That is WAY above any high schooler's pay grade. Treating Cheryl's attempt to end her life, no matter how purple and floridly written and enacted, as just another one of her "crazy" quirks does a huge disservice to a very real issue. 

Okay, off the soapbox. Moving on...

FRED! NO! But I'm not really worried, because of the way Archie leaped in front of him, obviously making the shooter's aim go wild and hitting Fred in the side instead of the head or heart. Not that getting shot is a good idea at any time but I'm sure this will be a "coma for two episodes" and then Fred will be recovering (after at least one attempt on his life in the hospital) and his near-death brush will be the big mystery solve for season two. Hopefully this will recruit Archie fully into the Teen Gang and they can phase out the whole music thing.

(Because that performance at the Jubilee was--a lot of okayness. I was way more focused on the fact that Valerie doesn't even get a line with Archiekins and both Veronica and Silent Melody are singing backup without opening their mouths. There was no reason for the Pussycats to be onstage except their absence was getting pretty glaring.)

Thank you whoever posted that Cole is 24 because I feel slightly less filthy drooling over him. He and Betty are thick as syrup with the chemistry. And when he put on the jacket? Wowsers. I said aloud "Girl, if you weren't gone on him before, you are now." 

As long as Alice is revealing secrets left and right, I wish she'd get into how she was Homecoming Queen of Riverdale High while also hanging with the Serpents of South Side. What is the timeline here??? They keep hinting about this big past with HP and her but when was this? When they were both ten? I guess we can ask Nana Blossom, the chronicler of the town secrets, if she escaped that fire.

I bet we get more about Alice and FP's Past next season. RAS has said Betty will come to see the pull of being in the Serpents next season along with Dark Betty returing and Her and Juggy exploring their dark sides. Ill bet Her and Jug are Serpents next season Alice and FP finds out then we get Flashbacks to them when they were Betty and Jughead's age. Won't be surprised to find out they were dating(Please writers have Cole and Lili play young Alice and FP they were already looking like them with their style by the end of the episode).

[rmontro]

I was watching that scene where Archie is beating on the ice trying to save Cheryl, and I couldn't help but think that here we are in the season finale, and this is the first time they've given him something interesting to do.  Aside from this heroic act, Archie has probably been the least interesting main character on the show.  And damn, Betty, Veronica, and Jughead just stand there, how useless did they look?

Does anyone know what year of high school this is supposed to be taking place in?  It's a bit of a stretch to see most of these actors as high schoolers to begin with, and they're only going to look older as time goes on (assuming the series continues on for awhile, which I hope it does, because it's such silly fun).

[Affogato]

19 hours ago, pamplemousse said:

In uni I had a close friend originally from upstate NY and he used to always be in his shirt sleeves on what was pretty cold days to everyone else. He said where he grew up, anything above 30 degrees Fahrenheit was considered "warm weather," which surprised me. I wonder if Riverdale is supposed to be in that area of the United States and trying for verisimilitude, the actors are dressed inappropriately for the weather on purpose (because let's be real, they're all dressed as if they live in L.A., although I guess the show is filmed in Vancouver or something?)

I grew up in Minnesota and  I would chop wood in a long sleeved shirt and down vest, like a sensible luddite, and I seem to make some adjustment to my attitude when it falls below 0 degrees F that keeps me comfortable, but I don't remember ever seeing summer dresses in the middle of winter in my high school.

[Affogato]

17 hours ago, SeanC said:

Things like Riverdale having expensive apartment buildings and nightclubs, etc. is pretty much in the tradition of fictional TV towns that gradually acquire whatever the writers feel the story needs at a given moment.  Look at Sunnydale on Buffy, for instance, which acquired everything from an airport to docks to a UC campus over the years.

Sunnydale, 38,000 inhabitants, one small main street, twelve huge Gothic cemeteries. And a hell mouth...

It might make more sense if Riverdale proves to be close to a larger city, Like Neptune is close to LA and San Diego.

[Bruinsfan]

52 minutes ago, rmontro said:

And damn, Betty, Veronica, and Jughead just stand there, how useless did they look?

That was actually smart, the ice had already collapsed in one place and concentrating all their weight in one spot might have resulted in five allegedly teenaged popsicles instead of one. Archie was far and away the most athletic, so he had a better chance than any of them of breaking through to Cheryl. Though perhaps a "try kicking it, dumbass" wouldn't have been out of order.

[Mabinogia]

13 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Though perhaps a "try kicking it, dumbass" wouldn't have been out of order.

That was me, shouting at the tv, through that whole scene. Not only would it have been less bloody, but it would have gotten through the ice a lot faster and saved Cheryl much sooner. Though I suppose it wasn't as dramatic, and Cheryl does adore drama so maybe it was for her benefit. (I do like Archie/Veronica, but I wouldn't be adverse to some Archie/Cheryl along the way lol)

[CletusMusashi]

I'm not sure he had a clear idea how to kick through. Stomping would break it, sure, but the stomper could easily fall right into the crack. I could see maybe lying on his back and bashing it with heel kicks, but is that really an intuitive thing that he would have thought of in a moment of stress? I'm not even convinced it would work all that well. We do know that he practices hard on a punching bag, and we also know that he isn't exactly the smartest character on the show, so "Archie SMASH!" is probably going to be the first thing that occurs to him. And when time is that critical, decisiveness is better than nothing.

Edited May 18, 2017 by CletusMusashi

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 5/13/2017 at 4:37 PM, Old House Nut said:

I like Fred, and I hope he is around in Season 2. HOWEVER, it is a painfully gimmicky gimmick when someone faces a shooter who is purposefully aiming his gun at a victim was is shot but then is seen in a hospital's ER at the start of the next season with everyone pacing around the waiting room for news from a doctor. I'm no marksman, but it is totally absurd to think that Fred wouldn't have been dead on the spot. 

I'm guessing there are a fair amount of real-life shootings at close range where the victim manages to hold on and survive.

[CletusMusashi]

Major characters rarely if ever die of gunshots to the torso. Sometimes for extra "realism" they might spend the next season in a wheelchair, but pretty soon they'll be back up to kick some ass. Now if you're being attacked by a gang of evil extras, those guys can be dropped left and right by aiming at their center of mass, but plot armor works pretty well on everything except the brain.

[methodwriter85]

On 5/17/2017 at 10:24 AM, rmontro said:

Does anyone know what year of high school this is supposed to be taking place in?  It's a bit of a stretch to see most of these actors as high schoolers to begin with, and they're only going to look older as time goes on (assuming the series continues on for awhile, which I hope it does, because it's such silly fun).

I'm pretty sure they're supposed to be sophomores. (Except for Polly, Jason before death, and Cheryl. Cheryl mentioned being a senior in the pilot.)

On 5/16/2017 at 6:56 PM, Mabinogia said:

With Riverdale, a dome can fall upon it, cannibalistic humanoids can be lurking on the outskirts, a zombie apocalypse can break out, vampires and witches can start sucking blood and casting spells... and I wouldn't bat an eyelash as long as Betty, Veronica, Jughead, Archie, Kevin, FP, Alice, etc. were around doing what they do while an eyelash or nail or lip gets two coats of Cover Girl to the tune of a 80s/90s/00s cover.

It's felt pretty clear that this isn't supposed to exist in any kind of grounded reality, the way Dawson's Creek, The O.C., Beverly Hills 90210, One Tree Hill were. It's definitely a stylized kind of reality, like Veronica Mars or Pretty Little Liars. I do kind of enjoy these people seem to exist in some kind of floating timeline where 16-year old kids are going to make references to the 1970's or 1980's or have actually gone to drive-in movie theaters instead of the branded multiplex.

[rmontro]

On 5/16/2017 at 6:40 PM, Sonoma said:

With Riverdale, a dome can fall upon it, cannibalistic humanoids can be lurking on the outskirts, a zombie apocalypse can break out, vampires and witches can start sucking blood and casting spells... and I wouldn't bat an eyelash as long as Betty, Veronica, Jughead, Archie, Kevin, FP, Alice, etc. were around doing what they do while an eyelash or nail or lip gets two coats of Cover Girl to the tune of an 80s/90s/00s cover.

I totally agree.  It wouldn't surprise me at all to see zombies or vampires on Riverdale.  Great comment about the Cover Girl.

[secnarf]

On 2017-05-19 at 8:24 PM, methodwriter85 said:

I'm pretty sure they're supposed to be sophomores. (Except for Polly, Jason before death, and Cheryl. Cheryl mentioned being a senior in the pilot.)

It's felt pretty clear that this isn't supposed to exist in any kind of grounded reality, the way Dawson's Creek, The O.C., Beverly Hills 90210, One Tree Hill were. It's definitely a stylized kind of reality, like Veronica Mars or Pretty Little Liars. I do kind of enjoy these people seem to exist in some kind of floating timeline where 16-year old kids are going to make references to the 1970's or 1980's or have actually gone to drive-in movie theaters instead of the branded multiplex.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by this. Having watched both OTH and Veronica Mars, I don't quite get what the difference is.

[methodwriter85]

15 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by this. Having watched both OTH and Veronica Mars, I don't quite get what the difference is.

Tree Hill was a soapy town, but you had the sense it was supposed to be like a real town. Neptune was a dark, noir-ish town where corruption was upped to the nth degree underneath the pretty beach town vibe. The reality was heightened. Similar to how Sunnydale existed in a dark, stylized reality.

[Neurochick]

On 5/11/2017 at 10:10 PM, Dee said:

Everything to do with Josie & The Pussycats was extremely gross. The only gig WOC can get on CW shows are as Neo-Mammies. Never change CW.

This.  I had stopped watching this show because of the disgusting way it treats black women.  The CW is nothing more than a kiddie version of CBS.

[imakicola]

I know this is common, but did anyone else notice how different the pop's exterior set looks between Archie first going in, and the shooter running out? Obviously one is the real exterior from the pilot and the other is the recreated set. But the front door was a sideways door of a vestibule at the beginning of the scene, and st the end the door is right in the middle and it's big and red. 

[queenanne]

On 5/16/2017 at 3:25 PM, Snookums said:

That might explain why not one character has appropriate winter wear! It's bad enough when the kids are walking around town in light spring jackets, or when Archie rescued Cheryl wearing a hoodie, but when Betty was getting ready for the Jubilee she is wearing a light, sleeveless shirt that's for midsummer! Hermione and Veronica are also dedicated to the bare arms look past any point of reason. No wonder this town's crazy--they're all freezing to death.

 

On 5/16/2017 at 3:40 PM, pamplemousse said:

In uni I had a close friend originally from upstate NY and he used to always be in his shirt sleeves on what was pretty cold days to everyone else. He said where he grew up, anything above 30 degrees Fahrenheit was considered "warm weather," which surprised me. I wonder if Riverdale is supposed to be in that area of the United States and trying for verisimilitude, the actors are dressed inappropriately for the weather on purpose (because let's be real, they're all dressed as if they live in L.A., although I guess the show is filmed in Vancouver or something?)

Yeah, I'm from near Syracuse and that sounds like lies, lol, though generally men do run hotter metabolically than women.  I do remember the occasional outlier male in shorts during a day when I wondered if said male were trying out for the Polar Bear Club; whereas I might have signified this 15-degree uptick in weather by exchanging my fleece-lined boots and wool socks for ... plain old fashioned leather boots with wool socks.  

However... I actually like the weird principle of "Riverdale underdressing", because it is true to my experience of teens going to formal dances in cold climates, or even, to the mall - it's not that they're "warm" in 30-degree-and-below weather; it's more that they don't want to be the uncool weirdos burdened with dragging their winter wraps around inside the majority-warm area once they gain the safety of the indoors. They'd rather freeze, trot, jog, or hustle race-walking the 100 feet risking frostbite between Points A and Point B.  

Edited June 4, 2017 by queenanne

[Jeddah]

11 hours ago, queenanne said:

However... I actually like the weird principle of "Riverdale underdressing", because it is true to my experience of teens going to formal dances in cold climates, or even, to the mall - it's not that they're "warm" in 30-degree-and-below weather; it's more that they don't want to be the uncool weirdos burdened with dragging their winter wraps around inside the majority-warm area once they gain the safety of the indoors. They'd rather freeze, trot, jog, or hustle race-walking the 100 feet risking frostbite between Points A and Point B.  

I like the idea that the people of Riverdale dress to look good regardless of weather or situation. It fits with Veronica's glamorous cape in the pilot that was way too warm for summertime, or Jason's white outfit which seemed impractical for someone about to stage his own disappearance.

[Artsda]

On 5/11/2017 at 10:28 PM, Craphole Island said:

Also Archie was great in this episode but are we actually supposed to believe him when he told Verinica he wants what Jughead and Betty have with her? Because I feel like his looks DID say otherwise.

That's what I thought. He said one thing, but the looks to Betty while singing that song said something else. 

I really hope Fred makes it. 

Where was Grandma supposed to be when Cheryl burned the house down? I do hope too she packed all her clothes before she burned it down because now she has no clothes. 

Jughead sure took that Serpent jacket pretty fast. 

[Enginerd]

To me, it seems like the overlapping of time periods is a key element of the setting of Riverdale. It's been described as not being set in a particular year or time, but it also seems like all these different decades sort of exist simultaneously on top of the contemporary timeline. You have Betty and her family, who seem  very 1950s Americana. Fred has sort of a 90s emo grunge thing going. The Lodges seem all about 80s glamour and excess, although Veronica also dwells in a prim midcentury vibe. Jughead seems more in the now. Archie seems kind of 80s to me for some reason, as did Miss Grundy, especially with her heart sunglasses. Old cars, but new computers and phones. Classic diner. High school girls with names like Betty and Ethel. The Blossoms seem to belong to an even older period, maybe 1900s or 1910s, with their posh white summer clothes and gloomy estate and twisted ideas of many kinds.

Likewise, it's starting to seem like the seasons are also coexisting. Furs can be worn when it looks like summer, skimpy clothes when there's snow, maple trees can be tapped in the autumn, a girl can spend a minute in a lake under ice and be transported back across the snowy woods to town yet not freeze to death. The year or season simply does not matter. Normally it would seem like sloppy continuity or sacrificing reality for plot, but when it's all the time everywhere, it does seem more like a deliberate and interesting style choice.