S02.E14: Candy Morningstar

[MostlyC]

After cutting off all contact from his family and the police department, Lucifer returns to help solve an up-and-coming guitarist's murder.

He's baa-ack!

 

This thread will unlock after the episode has aired. EST

[paulvdb]

So Lucifer is airing on Sundays in Canada now? And advertising a show on another network. They showed a Supegirl ad on a billboard in one scene.

[Happy Harpy]

6 hours ago, paulvdb said:

So Lucifer is airing on Sundays in Canada now? And advertising a show on another network. They showed a Supegirl ad on a billboard in one scene.

Yes it does.

Now that I'm done bouncing around because my show is baaaaaaack! I have just one thing to say before it airs in the US.

Spoiler

Oh, Lucifer. You, well-meaning, devilish, goofy, cunning, adorable IDIOTMORON you.

[DEL901]

Yup.  Sunday nights and I'm dying to post, but I'll wait.

[jewel21]

You mean I could have watched it yesterday instead of waiting for today? Damn, I need to program my PVR.

[Unclejosh]

Good return!  Far too long of a break!

[Zipper]

When I realized it was Monday, May 1st, I gave a little squeal.  Can't wait!!

[Shades of Red]

Welcome back show!  It's back and as strong as ever.  I'm lucky enough to live up north and have already watched this twice!    The case of the week wasn't interesting, but I did like the focus on the relationships and characters.

[gameoff]

So glad this show is back.  Great episode as usual, and I'm glad there was more to Candy than met the eye.

[FormerMod-a1]

I was really enjoying Candy.  Too bad she's leaving already.  I wonder how Luci will explain that.

[gik910]

Yay! Welcome back show!

Lucifer's little smirk when he got mom talking about the flaming sword was everything. As was his performance of Eternal Flame.

I kind of loved Candy. I also want flashbacks of what Lucifer got up to in Vegas.   Wonder how he is going to explain her being gone?

I do wish that there was a bit of a bigger time jump- to really ramp up the mystery of being missing but that is a minor, minor thing.

And Dr. Linda!  I always love me some Dr. Linda.

[dippydee]

I've missed this show so freaking much! I'm so happy it's back!

There isn't much to say about the mystery of the week because it's really just background noise for the entire cast being awesome even when they were basically all Lucifer/Chloe shippers the entire episode. Even Mrs Morningstar turned out to be a great surprise.

As usual it's all the random little interactions that were so fun. Chloe/Maze (I hope she makes Maze but new plates or her entire salary is going to be spent on replacing cutlery), Lucifer/Dan, Dr Linda/Lucifer were all as fun as ever. All we needed was a Trixie sighting and it would have been golden.

[Shades of Red]

Lucifer singing The Bangles' song!  So much fun!

[jewel21]

I loved Maze checking out Candy's ass and boobs, heh, Also nice to see there was more to Candy than meets the eye. I, too, wonder how Lucifer will explain her disappearance. Great episode, I really missed this show.

[thuganomics85]

Yay, Lucifer is back!  It's been way too long.

I figured Lucifer had some kind of game going on, because even if he is pushing Chloe away because he found out "Dad" had Amenadiel bless her, I just didn't see him falling in love with someone like Candy enough to marry her, but I honestly didn't predict that it was going to end up that he hired her to pretend to be his wife, in order to fool his family and Chloe.  Lucifer really is going all out here!  I also wonder how he is going to explain her disappearance; especially since he gave her his ring too.  Is he just going to say it didn't work out, knowing that at this point, whatever he and Chloe had romantically is already over (for now)?

I see the show is all for finding different ways to have Lucifer sing on the show.  Hey, if Tom Ellis has got the voice (along with the acting talent), why not?!  There is so going to be an all musical episode in this show's future!

Ella just wanting everything to work out again was fun.  Even Dan was trying to be helpful.  It might have been cheap, but I still loved Dan busting Lucifer "hiding" behind a plant, all while holding a branch in front of his face.  Their relationship is still one of my favorites.

Not enough Maze, but her checking out Candy and mocking Charlotte still made up for it.

Still not sure what to make of Charlotte.  I do believe she is sincere about wanting to have a relationship with Lucifer and Amenadiel, but I still think she could betray them on some levels, in order to get back to Heaven.

Case of the week was fine, although Chloe pretending to be "Candy" was great.

Every time Dr. Linda probably thinks Lucifer can't surprise her anymore, he still manages to.  She really is the best therapist in the entire city, hell, the world.

[johntfs]

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

She really is the best therapist in the entire city, hell, the world.

I predict that Dr. Linda will eventually be raptured up to Heaven to deal with the laundry list of Mommy/Daddy issues that the angels have.

Edited May 2, 2017 by johntfs

[enoughcats]

18 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

She really is the best therapist in the entire city, and in  hell, and the rest of the world.

FIFY

[GaT]

They got me. I spent the entire episode wondering how the show was going to change with Lucifer being married to Candy, then we go to the end. I'm so glad he's not really married.

Edited May 5, 2017 by GaT

[Kelda Feegle]

Wonderful episode but I still can't stand the Mum or the Mum storyline.

[MorganSte]

OK, so if Lucifer is against lying and personally won't do it, how do we explain Candy?  I'm pretty sure he flat out introduced her as his wife.  Did they actually get married?

[Rosiejuliemom]

34 minutes ago, MorganSte said:

OK, so if Lucifer is against lying and personally won't do it, how do we explain Candy?  I'm pretty sure he flat out introduced her as his wife.  Did they actually get married?

It seems like they did. There was also that bit at the end about divorces being expensive. I'm assuming it is a paper marriage.

[fastiller]

40 minutes ago, MorganSte said:

OK, so if Lucifer is against lying and personally won't do it, how do we explain Candy?  I'm pretty sure he flat out introduced her as his wife.  Did they actually get married?

&

4 minutes ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

It seems like they did. There was also that bit at the end about divorces being expensive. I'm assuming it is a paper marriage.

Yes.  There's something to how he 'helped her' out in Vegas.  I like Candy (or whatever her name really is) and want to know what went on in Vegas.  

[enoughcats]

5 minutes ago, fastiller said:

want to know what went on in Vegas.  

Could that be the story arc that they're saving for fall?

[Good Queen Jane]

10 hours ago, gik910 said:

I do wish that there was a bit of a bigger time jump- to really ramp up the mystery of being missing but that is a minor, minor thing.

I agree. Two weeks is an average vacation. A month or six weeks would have explained more of the angst over his disappearance.

[UNOSEZ]

I mean Chloe was really kinda bitchy this episode... She was super mean to candy and about candy.. Super judgy... I know shes supposed to be hurt that Lucifer vanished for two weeks.. But ugh.. Not to manage unprofessional.  I generally like Chloe but I wasn't feeling her this episode 

[DEL901]

34 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

I agree. Two weeks is an average vacation. A month or six weeks would have explained more of the angst over his disappearance.

Yes, but when Chloe went to his condo, all the furniture had dust covers.  No one does that for a two week vacation.  She probably expected him to be gone a long time and was devastated... and then he comes waltzing back in after only 2 weeks...  and has a wife...  Yeah, she was pissed..

[greekmom]

11 hours ago, Shades of Red said:

Lucifer singing The Bangles' song!  So much fun!

I want the WHOLE version!!!! Please show make this happen.

Otherwise, Luci is back and I have missed him!  Glad that there was more than meets the eye with Candy and the "marriage".

Can't wait for next week's episode.  When is Chloe going to realize actually who Luci is!??!?!

[retrograde]

59 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

I agree. Two weeks is an average vacation. A month or six weeks would have explained more of the angst over his disappearance.

Two weeks is also a little more forgivable than months, though. Given he disappeared without a word after she'd almost died, I think the angst makes sense.

[Zipper]

YAY!  So much to like about this ep.  Luci singing, Maze appreciative, Amenadude, Chloe's wide range of WTF, and Dr. Linda' barely controlled eye rolls.  I thought that something was up with Candy.  There was something fundamentally too large about her "ditziness" for Lucifer, but at the same time an undercurrent of "good person" that made some sense.  I didn't have it figured out, but I was suspicious of the marriage.

The only false moment, to me, was when Luci first introduced Candy, and he seemed genuinely surprised that Chloe didn't want him on the case.   He cannot be that dense.  Her first reaction would be anger-- she was developing more than friend feelings for him, and regardless of his motivation for bringing Candy into the mix, he must have appreciated that Chloe's feelings being hurt might impede his return to their partnership.  

All came out well, though.  I'm sincerely hoping that Mom's story arc is nearly its end.  I didn't realize how tedious her "let's barge into heaven and start a war" bit had worn on me.  But when she started up with that at the end of the ep, I was the one eye rolling.  This show isn't going to attack heaven (at this point in time), so let's move this along.

[CheshireCat]

9 hours ago, GaT said:

Thy got me. I spent the entire episode wondering how the show was going to change with Lucifer being married to Candy, then we go to the end. I'm so glad he's not really married.

I'm actually not sure I am. At least, it could have been fun if they had kept the charade up for a little longer, I think.

[enoughcats]

1 hour ago, Zipper said:

he must have appreciated that Chloe's feelings being hurt

I want him to have the full range of human feelings.  Not be a Data like automaton, emotion wise.  We know he knows anger.  Does he get "pity"?  Compassion?  Different kinds of affection?  

Lust...he knows or at least knows some symptoms.  

Love....I'm not sure he or any of his kin get love the way humans do.  And he and his demon, brother and Mother may not understand how feelings exist, much less how they can be hurt.

 

Or am I over nit picking on this?

[Maherjunkie]

No, not at all.  I was wondering did Luci somehow get Candy from sort of sex trafficking situation?  I don't know why I got that impression exactly.

[Gigi43]

38 minutes ago, Maherjunkie said:

No, not at all.  I was wondering did Luci somehow get Candy from sort of sex trafficking situation?  I don't know why I got that impression exactly.

 

I'm under the impression she was a stripper (or maybe even prostitute?) and Lucifer saw her getting smacked around or something.

 

I had wondered at some point if Candy was a fake wife, but then I thought eh, Lucifer doesn't lie and his whole thing is rebellion so maybe, if Dad wants him to be with Chloe, he would marry some random stripper for spite. Anyway I'm guessing they did have a wedding of some sort as to make his claims of marriage not a lie. I wish they'd had Candy meet Amenadiel. Actually had she stuck around for another episode I wouldn't have minded. I thought she was going to be a lot more annoying than she was even before the reveal. 

 

Lucifer wasn't full of his usual one liners. He even called Dan and Trixie by their actual names. But I thought Chloe as Candy was hilarious. I'm slightly disappointed Lucifer didn't break out some NSYNC for Chloe but I loved that whole scene.

 

Sooo is Azreal's blade "the piece" Uriel meant?! I have to go watch the episode where the blade was going around again. Something had actually happened to it like it was heating up, when Lucifer was holding it at the penthouse if I remember right.  So, if the blade is THAT important though... why the -pun intended- hell isn't Azreal trying to get it back? Is she up there checking under all the heavenly couch cushions and closets for it?

 

I'm so glad this show is back!

[Maherjunkie]

I love Tom Ellis' voice but for some reason he didn't sound right for that song.  (That doesn't mean I won't listen to it on YT a thousand times)

[tennisgurl]

Oh, show, you've returned! Your certainly looking well!

Oh Lucifer, its always one step forward, three steps back with you. He had to have known that Chloe would be (understandably) upset that he disappeared right after her near death experience, abandoning his apartment and not sending so much as a text. I get that he's upset and feels like Dad is manipulating him and Chloe, and that Chloe isn't even really into his because Destiny, but...who cares? He has no idea why Dad did this, and he has no idea if this actually affected Chloe's feelings, he is REALLY jumping to conclusions here. All he knows is that Dad manipulated things to get her conceived. He didn't make her like him, or him her, because free will exists! That's kind of a big biblical deal! At least, in most stories it is, so I assume it is here too.

Anyway, I love that EVERYONE seems to be shipping Chloe/Lucifer now! Even Dan has jumped on the bandwagon! I laughed super hard at Dan immediately seeing through Lucifer attempting to tail him, and rather pathetically hiding behind a potted plant. I'm hoping for more Lucifer and Dan bonding soon, they actually make a fun odd couple, and I would love seeing Chloe's reaction to them hanging out and becoming friends.

The CoTW was alright, this was clearly more of a "lets check in on the characters" kind of episode, so it did its job. The one thing that kind of rubbed me the wrong way was when the ex of the dead musician was saying how he was immature and spoiled, and Chloe was agreeing with him, it came of came off as "domestic abuse is ok if its an annoying guy". I know that Chloe was projecting because she was pissed at Lucifer, and the woman admitted she was wrong to get physical, but it felt like we were mostly supposed to be sympathetic towards her, when I don't think it would have been the same way if the genders were switched. Minor thing though.

I liked Candy, and that she was actually a lot smarter than she seemed. It seems like she and Lucifer were never actually married, he was just trying to figure out what mom was up to, but I would be alright seeing her again. I wonder what Lucifer will tell everyone about her? That she just left him suddenly, or that they broke up and she went back to Vegas? Chloe pretending to be Candy was funny.

We only saw Maze, Doctor Linda, Amenadiel for a little bit each, but I liked what we saw, and it was good to check in on everyone. Just nice to have the show back!

[White Sheep]

10 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Yes, but when Chloe went to his condo, all the furniture had dust covers.  No one does that for a two week vacation.  She probably expected him to be gone a long time and was devastated... and then he comes waltzing back in after only 2 weeks...  and has a wife...  Yeah, she was pissed..

I was thinking that also. Dust cover. He gone for a long time!  Months, years maybe.   

It would have been nice to have her around for a while. But one and done for her. Really to starting to grow on me!  

Is it just me.  Or does anyone else.  Think Chloe trys to be so straight lace.  She doesn't know how to loosen up or deal with unexpected problems.  

Edited May 3, 2017 by White Sheep

[CheshireCat]

Now that I've watched the episode properly, I definitely would have wanted Candy to have stayed. She was fun. Cliché but fun. And there would have been potential for everyone/Chloe to figure out that she's not really as dumb and actually quite nice. I also liked her with Lucifer.

I don't know what it is but there's just something about the romance between Chloe and Lucifer that doesn't work for me. Chloe's great when she's upset/jealous and when she doesn't want Lucifer anywhere near her and they're great as partners/friends, so it can't really be about chemistry per se. And yet, whenever they go beyond the friendship, I'm just not convinced that she wants that. I'm as intrigued by that as Lucifer was about Chloe not being affected by his devil thing ;-)

Rachel Harris has to be the best. That scene... I'm definitely going to watch that again in a moment. And then again. And again.

And Maze checking out Candy - hilarious! Mom and Candy were fun, too.

Did Candy really know all about Lucifer though? He said it to Linda but I'm not entirely sure.

It would have been fun if now that Lucifer knows about Chloe he would have been invincible in her presence again, but I guess she can hurt him because she was blessed by Dad and since heavenly creatures can hurt each other, the blessing means she can hurt Lucifer.

As far as Lucifer hurting Chloe is concerned - I think he knows that he hurt her. When Dan told him that he didn't think Chloe was talking about him in interrogation, Lucifer seemed to know, he just didn't seem to want to know. I also think that Lucifer thought that Chloe would be over it by now. I think he gets the concept of having hurt her, just not that he should have called and that there are people who are worried about him and how someone who's worried reacts. Maze said that Lucifer tended to disappear and reappear, and she didn't sound like she was worried when Lucifer disappeared. So, this is probably new to him and since he's used to reappearing and picking up where he left off, he obviously didn't understand what the big deal was.

Side note - I think the disappearing/reappearing comment from Maze explains a little why she wasn't expecting their field trip to earth to be permanent. It sounded as if it's possible that she thought it was going to be like his disappearing acts and since he always came back, she probably expected him to do his thing and then return to Hell.

So... Chloe knows the professor was the only one with the antidote, has heard Lucifer tell her plenty of times that he's the Devil, and still, she refuses to even consider that he could actually really have been through Hell?

I don't know but when he said that he had been through Hell, figuratively and literally and Chloe said that she was the one who almost died, I rolled my eyes and thought, honey, it's not all about you and maybe if you'd listen... (Nice role reversal, since Lucifer usually makes it all about him).

I think Lucifer meant to stay away longer, and that that's the reason for the dust covers. He said as much to Amenadiel, I think, that he wanted to protect Chloe and that was why he left and that he couldn't stay away but it definitely sounded like he'd wanted to. I think that maybe he wanted to come back and that's why he decided to come back with Candy and not that he set out to "find" Candy.

Amenadiel's "I've been watching over her for weeks" made it sound like it was a lot longer though.

And can I just say that I missed a smiling Lucifer in his three-piece-suit?! ;-)

[Delphi]

I knew there wss more to Candy.   I liked her and could not figure out for the life of me why.   She's in on the plan,  of course. 

Loved Linda.   She's just the perfect grounded member of the team. 

I think my favorite part was Lucifer singing the Twitter handle of the show, "Crime-solving Devil, It makes sense, Don't overthink it”.

[White Sheep]

Dr. Linda rocks.  She needs to end the show. By writing a fiction book on her experiences.   

How much did it cost and how BIG (cts) was candy ring??  

Edited May 3, 2017 by White Sheep

[Rushmoras]

So, Lucifer saved the life of an actress and made a deal with her just to figure out what Mum is planning? How did he know that it would work? Also, why on earth he was so surprised that Chloe was pissed off on him for bailing on her on their date/non-date, being a no-show for two weeks and arriving with a trophy wife? I mean even he can't be that dense.

[johntfs]

41 minutes ago, Rushmoras said:

I mean even he can't be that dense.

He's clearly not.  The "Candy" gambit was designed to do two basic things: 1) Frustrate his Father's (and Mother's) plans for Chloe and himself 2) Push Chloe away from romantic involvement with himself because he believes her feelings for him were implanted by his Father and not something she felt of her own free will.  I'm certain he's wrong about that part and that we'll likely find that Chloe was put in Lucifer's path because Father wanted him and her to be happy.

Edited May 3, 2017 by johntfs

[Badsamaritan]

Oh Show, How I have missed Thee!

I actually guffawed during the interrogation scene with Chloe and the ex-wife, when they showed Dan and Luci, and Dan's comments about Chloe not being mad at him, and just the way he stared at Luci like, 'Really, dude? You know she's talking about you, right??' I rewound that scene a few times, and laughed out loud every time.

I'm ok that Chloe hasn't put two and two together with Luci being the Devil. Show established from the beginning that she's not a believer in anything Holy. So why would she jump to the conclusion that Luci literally went to Hell for her? I'm a Bones watcher, so I'm used to characters that don't believe in God and Heaven and Hell basically using Occam's Razor to explain stuff. Chloe could've just thought maybe the Dr. wrote the formula down after all or gave it to someone and Luci went thru metaphoric Hell to find it.

I also understand Chloe being kinda bitchy towards Candy. I mean, who hasn't been a little jelly when their crush takes up with someone else? And someone she thought was a stripper on top of it? She has to be thinking 'You left me and MARRIED A STRIPPER???!!?' But at the end when Candy came to the crime scene and they had their little chat, I think Chloe had come to terms with her and understood she wasn't a bad person, so she showed growth and I'm good with that.

Pure spec on my part - I think 'Dad' is trying to get Luci 'redeemed'. Regardless of the rebellion, I believe God loves him and wants the best for Luci. He was punished like any other wayward child (granted, his punishment was not like human children, heh) but I think God wants him back in the fold. Luci is obviously special to God, so I think He created Chloe to help get Luci on the right path, to take him through a human redemption experience. Think about it - Luci is the one who has had the most exposure to his Dad's human creations because of his role in Hell. So for me, it makes sense that God would use a similar human experience to bring Luci back to the Light. And of course, Luci is still being super rebellious about it all and not seeing the big picture. God is giving Luci some tough love.

Have I mentioned how happy I am this show is back??

[DEL901]

2 hours ago, johntfs said:

He's clearly not.  The "Candy" gambit was designed to do two basic things: 1) Frustrate his Father's (and Mother's) plans for Chloe and himself 2) Push Chloe away from romantic involvement with himself because he believes her feelings for him were implanted by his Father and not something she felt of her own free will.  I'm certain he's wrong about that part and that we'll likely find that Chloe was put in Lucifer's path because Father wanted him and her to be happy.

I wonder if Lucifer meant to stay away for a long time (hence the dust covers) but couldn't because he loved/missed Chloe too  much?  So when he met/found Candy, she was the perfect shield (or so he told himself).  He could come back and be with Chloe but without any emotional baggage on either side.  Big fail, but he's still learning to deal with human emotions and the fallout.

[Bruinsfan]

On 5/2/2017 at 7:54 AM, UNOSEZ said:

I mean Chloe was really kinda bitchy this episode... She was super mean to candy and about candy.. Super judgy... I know shes supposed to be hurt that Lucifer vanished for two weeks.. But ugh.. Not to manage unprofessional.  I generally like Chloe but I wasn't feeling her this episode 

Chloe does seem to think that she's entitled to be the center of Lucifer's world now, which isn't a good look on her. Nor is shrill petulance and hostility when dealing with third parties. At least when she was mad at Dan all the time he had actually done things that were serious personal and professional betrayals, not just causes for annoyance over him not behaving exactly how she wanted.

[Zipper]

On 5/2/2017 at 9:45 AM, enoughcats said:

Or am I over nit picking on this?

I don't think you're expecting too much or nit picking.  He may not have known or understood the full range of human emotion at the outset, but between his relationship with Chloe (where he's previously had to deal with her negative responses to his behavior and her feelings about their partnership) and his work with Dr. Linda, I think it's reasonable to expect he would get how his disappearance and reappearance with Candy would put Chloe off.

On re-watch, I think his initial response to her was just trying to stay in the glib-salesman part, to put a hard stop on any relationship development between them.  It's not until she says their partnership is done that we get a glimpse of his maybe realizing that he pushed her a little far.  It's a nice bit of work from Ellis, that flash of 'oh shit' in his eye when he thinks he might have screwed the pooch for real.  Hence, I think his serenade, to show her he's still as charming as ever.  

And, I agree with tennisgurl, Luci's jumping to the conclusion that Chloe's feelings are all of dear old dad's making really ignores the idea of humanity's free will.  

Totally shallow, but did anyone else notice something odd going on with Chloe's lower lip?  It seemed oddly immobile at certain moments.  

[wayne67]

On 5/3/2017 at 6:49 AM, tennisgurl said:

Oh Lucifer, its always one step forward, three steps back with you. He had to have known that Chloe would be (understandably) upset that he disappeared right after her near death experience, abandoning his apartment and not sending so much as a text. I get that he's upset and feels like Dad is manipulating him and Chloe, and that Chloe isn't even really into his because Destiny, but...who cares? He has no idea why Dad did this, and he has no idea if this actually affected Chloe's feelings, he is REALLY jumping to conclusions here. All he knows is that Dad manipulated things to get her conceived. He didn't make her like him, or him her, because free will exists! That's kind of a big biblical deal! At least, in most stories it is, so I assume it is here too.w back!

Well it depends on what you think free will and God entails... because in the Bible he's said to have hardened Pharoah's heart (for some reason) and he is not above interfering with human affairs what with letting angels murder people for the sake of the lols... Or was that the ordeal with Job... It was a boring and confusing book. 

Also God is supposedly Omniscient so he knows a human and Angel's every choice... which is presumably how he arranged to have Chloe born into an attractive woman in a position to influence and weaken Lucifer into a position of monitoring his ex wife... 

So even though Chloe is free to make whatever choice she wants, God knows how to rearrange all the pieces in order to get her to make the decision he wants her to. If that's falling in love with Lucifer so Lucifer is more engaged in rehabilitating the 'bad souls' then that's what's going to happen. 

Presumably God does what "pattern Angel" did on a larger scale with 'better' results. 

[Inquiry]

On 5/3/2017 at 4:41 AM, johntfs said:

He's clearly not.  The "Candy" gambit was designed to do two basic things: 1) Frustrate his Father's (and Mother's) plans for Chloe and himself 2) Push Chloe away from romantic involvement with himself because he believes her feelings for him were implanted by his Father and not something she felt of her own free will.  I'm certain he's wrong about that part and that we'll likely find that Chloe was put in Lucifer's path because Father wanted him and her to be happy.

 

I remember a fellow poster speculating that Dad's endgame in blessing Chloe's mom was actually Trixie, not Chloe, which I think would actually be believable. Especially since it was only after speaking with Trixie that Amendadiel seemingly got his mojo back in 2x13.  A large part of me thinks that we're going to get some twist that there's more to Dad's plan and Lucifer/Chloe falling in love was more a happy by-product of that grander design. 

As far as Chloe's free will goes, there are so many avenues they could take. The ideas of predestination and free will seem fundamentally at odds and some brilliant theologians have written numerous voluminous works trying to reconcile the two (see: John Calvin's "double predestination"). It's a very rich vein if they want to explore it, which I hope thw riters do. At the very least, it's an organic obstacle the writers could use in keeping the two apart. I'd rather see Lucifer and Chloe having to grapple with the idea if their love is real than the writers throwing some triangle in the mix or something. But, I think Chloe has to find out that Lucifer is actually the Devil for their relationship to really progress any further. I'm thinking that maybe the cliffhanger for the season finale. It's past time and the with the things she's seen and what she knows of Lucifer, she can't be kept in the dark forever. If the writers do that then they're going to tremendously weaken Chloe's character and her relationship with Lucifer in the process.

As far as the episode goes, I completely loved it. I love how well this show balances humor and drama. It can have me intensely intrigued to boisterously laughing with just one line.

A part of me thinks that they should have made Lucifer's sojourn longer, but, from his talk with Amnedadiel, it seems that he really just can't be away from Chloe for an extended period of time. Dude's got it bad but has no idea what to do about it. I certainly think, as other posters have said, that he intended to stay longer.

The show has done a great job of developing its characters. I want to give special shout outs to Dan and Amendadiel. If you compare their characters in the pilot to now there's such a fundamental difference. Dan and Lucifer becoming friends was something I'd never expect, but it's brilliant and the episodes have increasingly built upon it. There's a part of me that thinks Dan might realize Lucifer is actually who he claims to be before Chloe. I'd approve if he only knew an episode or two beforehand because I think the interactions he'd have with everyone would be golden (Oh my god, I slept with you mom...a goddess."). Something I like is that the writers aren't forgetting that Dan and Chloe were married. Yes, he's helping her reconnect with Lucifer, but that doesn't mean there aren't any residual feelings (which he actually blurted out in an episode). And the writers have also done a great job with Amendadiel after slipping a little in the first few episodes of season 2. He's a great mediator between Lucifer and Charlotte. And I love his relationship with Lucifer. You can tell that Amenadiel is still stubborn; still doesn't really understand Lucifer, but he loves him. And I think you can say the same is true for Lucifer. Their relationship is wondrously complicated and unlike Lucifer/Charlotte (also very complicated), I find it quite compelling. I will say, though, that I hope the writers find their way back to Amenadiel/Maze. That relationship is so fertile with possibilities, but we have only gotten snippets. I want some more substantial, damn it!

I know some might think Chloe was being bitchy, but I understood why. The two were obviously heading somewhere romantic, she almost dies, and he just...vanishes. Without a word. And then he reappears as if nothing happened with a wife on his arm. I'd have been bitchy too. Lauren Graham's acting was really top notch in this episode though. Her disbelief, that faint smile, and the way she touched Lucifer when he first showed up like she had to make sure he was real, were fantastic. As was her subtle doubling over like she couldn't breathe when she first saw Candy. Also had to laugh at her scrubbing down the counter Candy was perched at when Maze was ogling her. For the record, I don't think Chloe has a problem with strippers. I think she had a problem with Lucifer dating a stripper. The scene where she fully processes that Lucifer also went through something really traumatic was also very well done. I don't blame Chloe for not understanding sooner. As Candy said, the situation (and its aftermath up to and including that conversation) was "bananas."  

Not typically a fan of Charlotte, but I thought she was better this episode. Her delivery of "You're kidding" after Amenadiel said someone tagged Lucifer was great. It was like he'd been mugged or something.        

[CheshireCat]

2 hours ago, Inquiry said:

I remember a fellow poster speculating that Dad's endgame in blessing Chloe's mom was actually Trixie, not Chloe, which I think would actually be believable. Especially since it was only after speaking with Trixie that Amendadiel seemingly got his mojo back in 2x13.  A large part of me thinks that we're going to get some twist that there's more to Dad's plan and Lucifer/Chloe falling in love was more a happy by-product of that grander design. 

If Trixie had been endgame then why is Chloe the one making Lucifer vulnerable?

I could see that Trixie was a consequence but I don't think she was endgame. If she were, I think there would be no need to make this show about Lucifer and Chloe.

 

2 hours ago, Inquiry said:

As far as Chloe's free will goes, there are so many avenues they could take. The ideas of predestination and free will seem fundamentally at odds and some brilliant theologians have written numerous voluminous works trying to reconcile the two (see: John Calvin's "double predestination"). It's a very rich vein if they want to explore it, which I hope thw riters do. At the very least, it's an organic obstacle the writers could use in keeping the two apart. I'd rather see Lucifer and Chloe having to grapple with the idea if their love is real than the writers throwing some triangle in the mix or something. But, I think Chloe has to find out that Lucifer is actually the Devil for their relationship to really progress any further. I'm thinking that maybe the cliffhanger for the season finale. It's past time and the with the things she's seen and what she knows of Lucifer, she can't be kept in the dark forever. If the writers do that then they're going to tremendously weaken Chloe's character and her relationship with Lucifer in the process.

I certainly hope that she won't be kept in the dark forever! I actually wish they'd pursue it a bit more actively. It seemed rather present in S1 then took a backseat in S2. So, now Chloe has just accepted that Lucifer is Lucifer and it seems kind of wrong. You're not suspicious of someone and then drop looking into it when the weird/unexplained things continue. I mean, the events of ep 13 were rather... suspicious. And there's the "what do you really want" thing he keeps doing. And probably a lot of other things which slipped my mind due to the long break but it just seems wrong that they've made this a complete non-story.

I'm not sure if the relationship can progress only once Chloe accepts that Lucifer is the devil but it'll be certainly interesting to see what happens once she does. She doesn't believe and I'm currently wondering if they can even deal with her finding out and everything that it entails on a TV show. It's not just about accepting but if you don't believe, you believe that everything you've ever done was your own choice. Then suddenly you not only find out that the beings you didn't think were real are real but also that you were part of a plan. If that doesn't bring on an identity crisis, I don't know what would.

They had this talk between Lucifer and the priest in S1 that God had a plan but I guess, the question is, what kind of a plan is that and how much influence does God have? And is he forseeing things or is he simply putting the pieces of the puzzles needed to achieve a bigger picture into people's paths? Can they really go the forseeing route on the show? Because, if it's the forseeing kind, doesn't that mean that Lucifer was right and wouldn't that also mean that he won't be able to ever reconcile with his father because he'd be right about simply being a pawn in Dad's game?

Lots of questions, lots of things to explore on the show!

[Gemini2]

New to this forum and not tech savvy so bare with me if I am not doing it right. Love love this show. I really think it is one of the best. That being said  I thought this epsiode was good but not  the usual great epsiode have come to expect. My biggest problem is that if indeed they were not married then Lucifer lied, and that is huge. While I get  why he did it, still that is one of the tennents of this show 'Point of Pride" so not sure how they will correct that . I also thought while the charcter of Candy was wonderful the whole plot of getting married felt a little cheesy. I think they could have gone another way if he wanted to separate himself from Chloe. Also at some point when is it going to dawn on someone that because Chloe is immune to his powers everything she does is her own free will. Lucifer is suppose to be one of the smartest angels so a bit baffled by this and you would think it would occur to one of the other celestial at least as well. I truly hope this does not go on for much longer as it would start to irritate me. 

[CheshireCat]

23 minutes ago, Gemini2 said:

New to this forum and not tech savvy so bare with me if I am not doing it right. Love love this show. I really think it is one of the best. That being said  I thought this epsiode was good but not  the usual great epsiode have come to expect. My biggest problem is that if indeed they were not married then Lucifer lied, and that is huge. While I get  why he did it, still that is one of the tennents of this show 'Point of Pride" so not sure how they will correct that .

Thought: as a celestial being, can Lucifer perform a marriage ceremony? Can he declare them husband and wife? In that case, he would not have lied. It would have been a marriage before God, just not before the state.

 

23 minutes ago, Gemini2 said:

I also thought while the charcter of Candy was wonderful the whole plot of getting married felt a little cheesy. I think they could have gone another way if he wanted to separate himself from Chloe. Also at some point when is it going to dawn on someone that because Chloe is immune to his powers everything she does is her own free will. Lucifer is suppose to be one of the smartest angels so a bit baffled by this and you would think it would occur to one of the other celestial at least as well.

Chloe is immune because her parents were blessed by Amenadiel, so she has something celestial inside of her. Amenadiel, Maze and Mom are immune to Lucifer as well. But Lucifer believes he and Amenadiel are pawns in his Dad's game and since Chloe is the product of Dad's blessing, Lucifer believes she, too, is nothing but a pawn. And since Lucifer believes that he and Amenadiel are pawns, he doesn't believe that they're immune to Dad's manipulation, consequently, he doesn't believe Chloe can be immune to Dad's manipulation.

I don't know what Mom thinks. She does believe that Chloe was put into Lucifer's path and, apparently, so do Amenadiel and Maze. We don't know if any of them think that her feelings for Lucifer were her own or Dad's doings/intentions.