S08.E21: Guard Llama, Flag, Validated, Guardian Bikes

[yeswedo]

Quote

To show how their smartphone app can improve personal security, two entrepreneurs from Chicago, Illinois, bring a live guard llama into the Tank; two entrepreneurs from Irvine, California, deliver a safer take on the bicycle by innovating the brake system; a trio from Seattle, Washington, have an app that helps shoppers and diners earn free parking in exchange for their business; and business partners from Santa Clarita, California, hope to convince the Sharks to take a shot with their free photo-printing service. Also, a follow-up with former professional football player Al "Bubba" Baker from Avon, Ohio, and his de-boned rib steaks known as Bubba's Boneless Ribs, which Daymond John invested in during season 5.

[SayMyName]

The advertising on the back of the print would seem to be a big problem for Flag. That was my first thought. If you frame it the ad goes away and who looks at the back of a photo anyway.  I looked up the app in the Apple app store and it says 9.99 and you get up to 20 free prints a month. Free panoramic prints up to 14 inches. No wonder they are burning through cash. I can't see how they will stay in business with a 1 time 10 bucks for an indefinite number of prints and shipping per account. Plus the reviews say the prints are great when they come but they often don't come.

[nottopbravo]

I wish the llama was there every week to comment on the deals.

[mtlchick]

Guard Llama the product is not the greatest product ever.  Guard llama the animal is something I want in my life.  He was the real brains behind the operation.   If he wails, the entrepreneur needs to take the deal.  If he poops, the deal isn't worth it. 

[PumpkinPK]

Lori's color block dresses are so ugly.  Why does she have so many?

The Flag photo lady was really channeling Stevie Nicks tonight.

[cooksdelight]

Lori's dress makes her tits look like they are hanging sideways.

Loved the llama. He should be Mr. Wonderful's new sidekick.

[bilgistic]

Chris Sacca's great-grandmother told him not to text and drive? My great-grandmothers both died in the late 1970s/early 1980s before I reached the age of 10. Chris Sacca is only six months younger than me. Whatever, digital cowboy.

Edited April 15, 2017 by bilgistic

[retrograde]

Hate Sacca, but have to agree with him on QR codes. Yeesh. 

[cooksdelight]

Sacca's an asshole.

[hoodooznoodooz]

That color block dress is so awful that it makes her other (cut-out/peekaboo?) dresses look attractive. 

[bilgistic]

I freaking hate that dress. The concept behind that dress was popular with stars for half a minute five years ago. Move ON, Lori.

[LittleIggy]

2 hours ago, nottopbravo said:

I wish the llama was there every week to comment on the deals.

A llama es un quadrupedo! (Points if you get the reference). Yeah, I would totally be down with that. The llama was awesome!

[Dots And Stripes]

2 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Chris Sacca's great-grandmother told him not to text and drive? My great-grandmothers both died in the late 1970s/early 1980s before I reached the age of 10. Chris Sacca is only six months younger than me. Whatever, digital cowboy.

It was a joke so it was supposed to be ridiculous.

I enjoy Cuban and Sacca making snide comments back and forth about how Uber is best/the worst. I was happy to see Cuban backed the bike guys. Making bikes safer is definitely worthwhile and I was happy they got a deal. I was disappointed that Sacca, who seemed to think the idea was worthwhile, didn't want to be involved.

[hkit]

I'm taking a Lyft instead of an Uber from now on just to spite Sacca. 

[Eolivet]

I don't understand who Chris Sacca is supposed to appeal to. He doesn't have name recognition like Mark Cuban. He has no real personality type that isn't filled by Mark or Kevin. I don't want to invoke the "m" word here, but is he supposed to be a draw for the millennials? Because he invests in new, hip things like Uber! and Twitter!

Somebody please explain to me the target demo for the appeal of Chris Sacca.

And why someone would name a digital GPS panic button "Guard Llama."

[Primetimer]

Kevin O'Leary is the One Who Knocks...Other People's Businesses. And there's good reason for that on this episode, in which every pitch has its share of problems.

View the full article

[Wings]

When the highlight is Cuban and Sacco snarling at each other, you have a bunch of lousy products.   Sacco is an ass.  

[theatremouse]

Given how Sacca can't seem to stop talking about Uber every time he's on, I'm starting to think his participation is product placement. I mean, I get that for once in this episode, mentioning Uber was actually relevant to the discussion of the company at hand, but he undermined his own point because he's invested in it. I get that he was saying their transportation dealio was too complicated and had too many options, but saying "no, it should just be MY COMPANY and nothing else" is tremendously self-serving and I thought Mark's rebuttal to him was valid. And I'm not on the Mark's always right train. Sacca has this weird, overly forceful way of talking, whether he's in or out that gives me this kind of "I think it and therefore the end" vibe. It really annoys me. He seems like a very instinctive, knee-jerk reaction guy, rather than someone who can be swayed by additional data or logic. It may be a character he's playing but it's quite off putting and I just want him to shut up.

[basiltherat]

LittleIggy, is the llama reference to the Monty Python sketch?  If so, every time I see a llama (and I see them often in my imagination) I say, YYAAMAA!!

Because I hate Sacca, I not only do not take Ubers, but I take REAL TAXI CABS instead!

I must have been properly trained by Shark Tank, because as soon as the safe brake guys started, I shouted "Licensing Deal, dummies"

So glad Bubba's is doing well.

[EtheltoTillie]

The panic button made no sense.  You would be called on the phone by the police and have the opportunity to enter a disable code.  If you entered a different code, the robbers would be fooled into thinking you entered the correct one?  Well, they just saw you explain that on TV, so no one would believe it.  I just didn't like the phone callback idea.

Parking app was too confusing, frame company was ridiculous.  The bike company seemed like a good product.

[slowpoked]

10 hours ago, Dots And Stripes said:

I enjoy Cuban and Sacca making snide comments back and forth about how Uber is best/the worst. I was happy to see Cuban backed the bike guys. Making bikes safer is definitely worthwhile and I was happy they got a deal. I was disappointed that Sacca, who seemed to think the idea was worthwhile, didn't want to be involved.

God that was a thing of beauty. I don't always like Mark but Sacca always gets so sanctimonious about Uber, like it's the best thing ever invented. When Mark told him "yeah, sure that's why parking lots are empty..." and Sacca couldn't think of a quick comeback, and when the Validated guys said "Yes, we know Uber and Lyft are successful, but in the grand scheme of things, they really only represent 5% of the entire transportation mode..." and Mark had that winning smirk on his face.

My husband said maybe the Validated guys should target Valet parking instead. I see some value in their product but Sacca is right that it is complicated. And parking at strip malls are already free. In some places, even the big malls like Westfield already have free parking.

I like the bike guys, and I'm glad they got a deal. Barbara is right that maybe they just need to hire the right PR person/salesman, but the business itself is sound.

[Dots And Stripes]

4 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I don't understand who Chris Sacca is supposed to appeal to. He doesn't have name recognition like Mark Cuban. He has no real personality type that isn't filled by Mark or Kevin. I don't want to invoke the "m" word here, but is he supposed to be a draw for the millennials? Because he invests in new, hip things like Uber! and Twitter!

Somebody please explain to me the target demo for the appeal of Chris Sacca.

And why someone would name a digital GPS panic button "Guard Llama."

I don't think all of the sharks need to be appealing to any particular demo. What I enjoy about Sacca is that he's a counterweight to Cuban. He can get under Cuban's skin in a different way than the others. It's nice to see Cuban challenged. When they go back and forth it doesn't really matter who wins either. Both sometimes need to be taken down a peg and they do that to each other.

[BusyOctober]

Count me in as baffled how advertising on the back of a picture is a money maker.  The woman kept saying that the ad "will be there forever!".  So? What?  Ten or twelve years from now when I finally get around to updating my photo gallery, I'm supposed to remove the old picture, flip it over and see a logo for Burger King or VISA or whom ever and be consumer driven to go make a purchase from these companies? Or is it supposed to be some fun archeological clues to the era I lived in for my descendants to muse over as they clean out my house after my funeral?  Don't get it. At all.

[nutella fitzgerald]

3 hours ago, theatremouse said:

Sacca has this weird, overly forceful way of talking, whether he's in or out that gives me this kind of "I think it and therefore the end" vibe. It really annoys me. He seems like a very instinctive, knee-jerk reaction guy, rather than someone who can be swayed by additional data or logic. It may be a character he's playing but it's quite off putting and I just want him to shut up.

Emphasis mine.

I've always gotten the sense that the night before taping, Sacca comes up with as many "witty" comments/pseudoburns as he can ("Kids these days text a lot...texting and driving! No wait - I'll say my great-grandma said it so it'll be quirky!" [self high five]) and then spends the next day regurgitating them at every silence that goes longer than a beat. Can't you just picture him in his cowboy shirt at craft services, screaming "OLD PEOPLE ARE THE ONLY ONES NOT USING UBER!!!" as Daymond is looking through the sodas to see if any Diet Cokes are left?

[lh25]

2 hours ago, slowpoked said:

When Mark told him "yeah, sure that's why parking lots are empty..." and Sacca couldn't think of a quick comeback, and when the Validated guys said "Yes, we know Uber and Lyft are successful, but in the grand scheme of things, they really only represent 5% of the entire transportation mode..." and Mark had that winning smirk on his face.

I re-watched that moment a few times.  I actually used Uber on a recent vacation for the first time and loved it, but for me it is a vacation thing, not a take it to the mall thing.

[slowpoked]

27 minutes ago, lh25 said:

I re-watched that moment a few times.  I actually used Uber on a recent vacation for the first time and loved it, but for me it is a vacation thing, not a take it to the mall thing.

I also take a lot of Uber during out-of-town trips because it spares me the hassle of having to rent a car. I would also take it in hard to park places like maybe bars or clubs or restos when I'm out with a group of friends. I see its value and convenience.

But I still can't forget Sacca's ridiculous declaration of Uber eventually ending car ownership in one of the earlier episodes this season (or maybe last). I think that's what got under Mark's skin the most and it felt like since then, whenever Uber is brought up, he just wants to take it to Sacca. 

[cooksdelight]

I tend to really tune out when I see Sacca, so I don't have a whole lot of memories about this episode....which is bad news for the pitchers if others do as I do.

[Wings]

38 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

I tend to really tune out when I see Sacca, so I don't have a whole lot of memories about this episode....which is bad news for the pitchers if others do as I do.

Same here.  

Sacca is an irritant. 

http://www.businessinsider.com/chris-sacca-interview-returning-abc-shark-tank-mark-cuban-2016-11  

Quote

"I see my role on the show as keeping Mark honest," Sacca, 41, recently told Business Insider. "I’ve known him for years. The nature of our friendship is ball-busting. And I feel almost like that’s what I’m there to do, is bust Cuban’s balls for all those who are at home watching who can’t do it from home, but really want to."

I like the regular cast in that, the sum of the parts make a good whole.  I favor Cuban and Barbara and tend to listen to them closely when they speak.  I like Daymond immensely, good man.   Kevin adds comedic value.

 I don't like Lori and find her irritating most of the time.

Robert is a sweet man but he does not hold my attention when attempting to make a deal.  His love of animals is compelling and I adore the fact he married Kym (DWTS partner).  

I would not like to see either Lori or Robert replaced, though.   Everyone together delivers a good show. 

Edited April 15, 2017 by wings707

[shksabelle]

Oh God, the Validated dudes!  From Portland-big surprise. They "pivoted" to a "minimally viable product", to wit, another stupid app.  If I want to you out to a physical location, I will get in my car, drive there, do my business, and drive home.  If I want to complete said business online for whatever reason, no ridiculous point system is going to make me change my mind. 

[bilgistic]

Two nights ago, I ordered a bunch of stuff I've been needing from various online-only stores. Normally, I might get them at Target, but I hate going out and fighting crowds. No app is going to improve that.

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Two nights ago, I ordered a bunch of stuff I've been needing from various online-only stores. Normally, I might get them at Target, but I hate going out and fighting crowds. No app is going to improve that.

Yup. If an online store offers free shipping and free returns, and the prices are equal to or lower than brick and mortar stores, I'm ordering online. But if I'm going to a restaurant or event and there's no free parking (there's very little free parking in my city), I'd be interested in an app that validates parking or offers free rides. It would have to be much simpler than what the Validated guys demo-ed though. They should follow the "don't make me think" principle for their user experience.

Does Chris Sacca only own one shirt? In every episode and in all the photos I've seen of him he's wearing that black faux-cowboy one. Didn't his great-grandmother teach him to dress nicely when he's on TV?

[theatremouse]

Every episode they're intentionally in the same outfits because the segments that end up in any one episode were not necessarily filmed the same day. So, in show, yes it is only that shirt. But he also tends to wear that style shirt in general, so if you saw photos of him out in public wearing nearly that shirt, it's also not surprising.

[KaveDweller]

8 hours ago, lh25 said:

I re-watched that moment a few times.  I actually used Uber on a recent vacation for the first time and loved it, but for me it is a vacation thing, not a take it to the mall thing.

I live in the suburbs and have a car, so I rarely have use for Uber, but I did use it on vacation and when my car broke down. I think it gets used more in cities or other areas where it is less common to have a car. But I still enjoyed Mark's digs on Uber. 

And maybe the Validation thing makes more sense in cities too? Most places around me (malls, restaurants, other stores) have free parking. If you do have to pay, it is a few dollars for the evening. Fancier restaurants have valet that costs more, but I don't typically go to them so I can't speak to how much. But I know if I drove into NYC I'd have to either pay $30+ or drive around for an hour to find a place on the street.  Which is why I never do that. But I didn't really understand how their app works. It sounded way too difficult to actually bring in money. You have to get stores/restaurants to sign up and then get users to download the app. 

This episode had some really useless products.

[Shalmanese]

It was interesting because the theme for this episode seems to be fundamentally good ideas marred by the wrong entrepreneurs attacking the market.

Guard Llama: The hard part of this is not the key fob, it's integrating with tons of patchwork legacy emergency responders around the country/globe. So you hit the emergency alert button and the Guard Llama HQ has your photo and real time location, how does the cop nearest to you sitting in a patrol car get access to it and use it in an actionable way? It's not rocket science but it's a long hard slog of integrating with a ton of different services to try and make this a seamless experience. Once you've done the work however, you have a defensive moat and are attractive as an acquisition target. Imagine Apple being able to announce that the new iPhone 9 now has a feature where when you call 911, optionally they'll be sent your photo, any pertinent health info, real time location and a bunch of other stats? That's a real improvement in public safety and a huge selling point.

Flag: These guys didn't even talk about the huge differentiation factor in their business which is that photographs are a fantastic source for targeting data for advertising. The killer feature isn't the real estate per se, but the ability to become hyper targeted as you build up portfolios of info about your customer base. If your customers are taking photos of babies, you can start sending them offers for toddler clothing. If they're sending photos of the great outdoors, adventure equipment. Food, restaurant coupons etc. 

Validated: I actually thought this was a great idea but the criticism is right that their customer experience is way too convoluted. They should be straightforward offers of "buy at least X, get Y free". Like how Amazon's $35 free shipping limit often entices people to buy just a little more than they were planning to in order to get the offer, Validated should work with stores to craft offers that get people just over the line. Notice how basically every restaurant offer is about the price of 2 entrees plus about 20%? It's because it's a great way to get people in there and get them ordering drinks/desserts/other high margin goods and it works.

Guardian Bikes: These guys suck at sales and are too concerned about short term cash flow. They failed at licensing, assumed it was because licensing wasn't lucrative enough and built their own bikes because the money looks better. Instead, they should have just gotten better at licensing.

[LittleIggy]

12 hours ago, basiltherat said:

LittleIggy, is the llama reference to the Monty Python sketch?  If so, every time I see a llama (and I see them often in my imagination) I say, YYAAMAA!!

 

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! Yeah, me, too-- any llama reference or sighting has my brain back in that sketch! Good times!

[starri]

If Guard Llama had involved actually attack llamas, *I* would have invested.

I switched from Uber to Lyft a few months back.  I'd love to say is was motivated by Sacca, but it was primarily due to their strike-breaking when the yellow cabs were refusing to do pick ups at JFK in protest of...well, let's not get into politics.  And because their CEO is, if such a thing is possible, and even bigger asshole than Sacca.

I haven't lived in a place that's truly dependent on having a car for a while, so maybe my perception is skewed, but there's an upscale mall on Long Island called Roosevelt Field that I have a really, really hard time imagine someone Uber-ing to.  For one thing, it's got to cost a lot more than parking would, and if you live in an area like that, you have a car.  Probably a really nice car.  And it's not my experience that people Uber TO places.  FROM, yes.  I think the only time I've ever taken an Uber that wasn't home has been trips to the airport.  "They probably went to the mall in an Uber."  I went to the mall on the subway yesterday, Sacca.  Fuck you.

I have a very vague memory of a Web 1.0 website called FreeCar.com, that would essentially give you a car that was covered in advertising, a la NASCAR.  And as you can see, that concept was so successful that it forever changed the way commerce works.

[marny]

I'm just so tired of everything being about stuff to add to your smart phones.

[cmfran]

Glad to hear the BBQ rib guy is doing well, but wow, that burger looked sad.

[Whimsy]

On 4/15/2017 at 2:30 PM, lh25 said:

I re-watched that moment a few times.  I actually used Uber on a recent vacation for the first time and loved it, but for me it is a vacation thing, not a take it to the mall thing.

 

7 hours ago, starri said:

 

I switched from Uber to Lyft a few months back.  I'd love to say is was motivated by Sacca, but it was primarily due to their strike-breaking when the yellow cabs were refusing to do pick ups at JFK in protest of...well, let's not get into politics.  And because their CEO is, if such a thing is possible, and even bigger asshole than Sacca.I

I only use Uber on trips too (NYC and Las Vegas). I tried to use Lyft, but I feel the app was not as user friendly. 

Despite liking Uber, I'm sick of Chris Sacca. 

[Amarsir]

I predict that within 2 years Shutterfly will start putting ads on the back of their photos. It won't have to carry their business. It will just be added revenue because why not? And since they're already so big and don't have to cover the cost, they can price it cheaply enough to get all the advertisers they could want. "Flag" (apparently that's their name, I had to rewind 4 times) was a terrible business but might have found a valuable idea.

I felt like Validate wants to copy iBotta but from a narrower angle. iBotta is basically a rebate service, offering cash back by shopping at a place or for a thing. They're successful enough that they got me to download and use it (although I kinda stopped once I got $30 out).  Geographically targeting to say "If you're parking here, shop at these places" isn't the dumbest thing. And iBotta doesn't seem to mind being "the bank" as Cuban put it. The difference is A) they can target manufacturers OR retailers. B) It's much more flexible, where I can get a quarter one day and $4 plus a $5 bonus the next. C) Validate also needs to sign up parking lots, which is a whole other layer. It's so many moving pieces they'd have bombard the world with sales reps.  As limited as Uber is (Mark's right), at least it's only one party.

On the Llama device, Mark: "It's not a good product because it's going to get you sued." Lori: "I disagree with Mark. This is a great product and you're great people. But you're going to get sued, so I'm out."

The bike did sound like a good product. Mark had a ton of contingencies, but made them a good offer. I'd like to follow up on that and see if they closed.

[Wings]

14 minutes ago, Amarsir said:

 

I predict that within 2 years Shutterfly will start putting ads on the back of their photos. It won't have to carry their business. It will just be added revenue because why not?

 

Because nobody looks at the back of a pictures.  :^)

[Amarsir]

3 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Because nobody looks at the back of a pictures.  :^)

Nobody looks at the back of receipts either. (Or the front in many cases.) Doesn't stop that from being a common advertising spot.

As someone who occasionally has to buy ads, I'm shocked at how much money they go for at times. It wouldn't be hard to convince me that advertisers are overpaying. However, if Visa is spending $1 per print like these guys said, then that's their problem. I'd happily take their money.

[retrograde]

3 hours ago, Amarsir said:

Nobody looks at the back of receipts either. (Or the front in many cases.) Doesn't stop that from being a common advertising spot.

I work in the newspaper business, and something I know is that most people don't actually read the ads or catalogues. What they do do is leave newspapers and catalogues lying around their house, where they catch glimpses of the ads and brands over and over again. So I can see the same appeal for the backs of photos, so long as they can convince the advertisers of it. 

[cooksdelight]

All my printed photos are in frames, albums....places I cannot see the back of the photo. It's a stupid idea, in my opinion. 

I also have worked in advertising, local newspaper.... people here don't leave the newspaper lying around to glance at ads later. They read it, toss it, use it in their pet's cage. I worked in direct mail marketing, and if a credit card company gets a 1 percent return, it's a good day. People don't look at ads they can hold in their hands anymore. They look at ads online when forced to while waiting for their YouTube video to load.

[MrSmith]

15 hours ago, cmfran said:

Glad to hear the BBQ rib guy is doing well, but wow, that burger looked sad.

That burger looked really gross to me and my wife. There is no way we would ever put that thing in our mouths. Just gross to add a rib to a burger. Yuck!

As for Uber, I hate Uber. I hate Uber's CEO. And I hate Uber. I also hate Chris Sacca. So, for all those reasons, I'll never use Uber. And because Uber and Lyft unfairly compete with taxis (and because taxi drivers go through actual background checks and have to have some "skin in the game" by paying toward their medallions), I'd never use either Uber or Lyft. Sure, using a taxi will cost me quite a bit more, but I'd rather spend more money (even if in LV where they tend to drive the long way back from the airport) on a service where I know the driver has a reason not to be a dick and where the driver is unlikely to be a criminal or attempt anything criminal.

[questionfear]

The Guard Llama guys are missing a big opportunity...rather than use bluetooth and your phone, slap a phone chip and SIM in there and have it sold as an add-on to your phone plan. Verizon would happily upsell you on a $5/month connected panic button. 

[Thriftykins]

Chris Saca has been mildly bothering me for a while now.  His ugly shirt, his perpetual scowl, his stupid beard, his mercurial temprament... His comment that something like "80% of the people at the mall took an Uber" just pushed me over the edge.  It makes him look like an utter douchebag who is completely out of touch with everyone outside of big cities and his little Silicon Valley bubble.  Mark's retort "that's why the parking lots are empty, right?" was perfect.  Has Saca even BEEN to a shopping mall recently?  The huge parking lots are always full of cars.  Maybe it's different for downtown malls where you would have to pay through the nose to park, like the Circle Center Mall in Indianapolis... but most malls are out of the way and taking an Uber would be stupid.

[cooksdelight]

33 minutes ago, Michael Stabosz said:

Chris Saca has been mildly bothering me for a while now.  His ugly shirt, his perpetual scowl, his stupid beard, his mercurial temprament... His comment that something like "80% of the people at the mall took an Uber" just pushed me over the edge.  It makes him look like an utter douchebag who is completely out of touch with everyone outside of big cities and his little Silicon Valley bubble.  Mark's retort "that's why the parking lots are empty, right?" was perfect.  Has Saca even BEEN to a shopping mall recently?  The huge parking lots are always full of cars.  Maybe it's different for downtown malls where you would have to pay through the nose to park, like the Circle Center Mall in Indianapolis... but most malls are out of the way and taking an Uber would be stupid.

Preach it, Michael! Thank you for saying everthing I think about that asshat.

[Thriftykins]

You know, I for one was glad that this episode did not feature either some kind of clothing or a product with the phrase "all natural" in the description.

[columbot]

On 4/15/2017 at 1:05 PM, wings707 said:

Same here.  

Sacca is an irritant. 

 

So you're saying...he's disrupting Shark Tank?