S01.E03: Mommie Dearest

[Evagirl]

1 minute ago, Growsonwalls said:

That was Loretta Young, who can also enter the sweepstakes for Golden Age of Bad Parenting. I mean at least she re-adopted Judy, but lying to her for life? That's cold.

I remember an interview with Judy Lewis when she said that she was talking to a friend of hers who was adopted and the friend observed, "You know, I'm adopted and you're adopted but you look just like your adopted mother."

Ahhhhh, you're right!  I'm getting my 40's divas mixed up.  Thanks for the correction.

[Chaos Theory]

Of course I heard of the stuff between Joan and her eldest children I hadn't really heard of BD before this. I kind of overlooked her until now i was even feeling sorry for her a little.  You can't help the lack of talent and Bette might have handled it better but still.  Still knowing the future now...,.damn girl!

I think Pauline (Hi Alison Wright) had the best line.  "and you didn't think you were doing a war picture."

[eleanorofaquitaine]

37 minutes ago, CatMomma said:

I am sorry if you feel I was questioning your take on abuse.  I'm a speech therapist who also works with children of abuse, so if I seemed angry, it is on me. We both agree that Joan was sexually abused, we just read the scene differently from our own perspectives.

ETA: Can we both agree that the show did a great job of showing the psychology of an abuse survivor? 

Yes, happy to do so.  And I do agree with you that her abuse, and the circumstances that led to it, probably played a lot into the kind of person that Joan was as an adult.
 

Quote

 

That was Loretta Young, who can also enter the sweepstakes for Golden Age of Bad Parenting. I mean at least she re-adopted Judy, but lying to her for life? That's cold.

I remember an interview with Judy Lewis when she said that she was talking to a friend of hers who was adopted and the friend observed, "You know, I'm adopted and you're adopted but you look just like your adopted mother."

 

Coincidentally, there was a really interesting story in Buzzfeed a year or so ago about Loretta Young and whether or not she was actually assaulted by Clark Gable.  Everyone involved (including her daughter, Judy Lewis) is long dead and so it is impossible to know. But this was an era where a lot of abuse was ignored, and where a lot of women didn't even realize that they were assaulted because of the norms of the era.

EATA: Gable did, in fact, have an affair with Joan Crawford, though no child resulted from it.

Edited March 20, 2017 by eleanorofaquitaine

[ptuscadero]

41 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

Speaking of Cathy and Cassie, is the first we've seen them portrayed in anything?

Bette Davis wanting to reach out to her "mentally retarded" daughter (obviously, now she'd be labelled as extremely autistic) was also heartbreaking.  She left the bulk of her estate to her son and left out Margot due to the disability, but did she leave a stipulation to her son to take care of his twin sister?

It's actually Cathy and Cindy, and I don't believe we've really seen much about them before. They both refuted Christina's claims of abuse, and as far as I can remember, defended Joan as a wonderful mother.

Margo, Bette's disabled daughter, was supported primarily by her husband, Gary Merrill, until he died. He set up a trust fund for her to continue after his death, which I believe was administered by their son Michael.

[Growsonwalls]

I think that this episode left it up to the viewers to decide upon the abuse claims. Which is as it should be -- life is in shades of gray. We saw that Joan was incredibly controlling and strict with the twins, was an alcoholic, and herself suffered an abusive childhood. All red flags for child abuse. On the other hand we also saw that she loved her children in her own way. I think that the writers and directors handled it well -- the more sensationalistic parts of Christina's story are questionable, but they did put it out there that Joan had a lot of issues and that might have led her to becoming an abusive parent. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Feud: Bette and Joan Has A Mother/Daughter Day

As filming wraps on Baby Jane, Bette's and Joan's parenting goes under the microscope.

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

I also had no idea that Joan tried to adopt more children. 

I didn't either. It was very sad. Her daughters were getting older. They were going to sleep away camp. So he's hanging out in bed with Mamacita. This was a women who projected a real air of strength, but in reality it appears she couldn't stand to be alone. 

[bmoore4026]

15 minutes ago, Tara Ariano said:

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Feud: Bette and Joan Has A Mother/Daughter Day

As filming wraps on Baby Jane, Bette's and Joan's parenting goes under the microscope.

Christ, that throat!

[Valny]

1 hour ago, Evagirl said:

I remember reading several years ago that Crawford had a daughter by Clark Gable and that the little girl looked so much like him, she had her ears surgically pinned back a little bit.  I don't know if it's true or not.  But I didn't read it in a tabloid.  

I don't think I've heard that but I do know Gable had a "secret"daughter with Loretta Young and no one knew about it for years. Well at least the public.

Loved Lange in her death scene. I wish I could do a split screen and compare with the movie, but from what I can remember it's pretty damn good. 

"If the series were to stop right now, who do you think would get the nomination for THE EMMY for best Actress?"

I guess both but I'd give it Lange because I'm such a fan and SS not so much... plus I do think she's doing a really good job so far.

There was one black and white shot of SS playing Jane that looked so much like the movie...I actually thought it looked like they splice it in there.

[atlantaloves]

Well I loved this episode just as much as the pilot, and that is saying a lot.  I had to watch it twice there were so many wonderful zingers. Susan S. is finally "getting" Bette's voice and it really helps. She is so fabulous in this, everybody is. I hope people are watching this wonderful little series, because I am enjoying every juicy moment!  Anybody out there know if it is getting good ratings? Ewwwww, oh and you all are right, Hedda Hopper was a total right winged monster and I too recommend the movie Trumbo, it was my favorite movie of that year. Helen Mirren plays Hopper....and you will HATE HER. Not Helen of course, the character Hopper.

[monakane]

8 hours ago, ghoulina said:

This was incredibly disturbing to hear about. She didn't seem to have a clue, on the surface, that there was anything really wrong with it. But deep down it had to have been killing her. I won't say that someone's past excuses bad behavior, but if there IS any merit to the claims Christina made about her, her horrible upbringing certainly explains it

I was listening to the podcast, "You Must Remember This", and they had a quote from Joan about the situation and it was same quote they used in the show.  The thing that struck me was that Joan said she initiated it.  She didn't recognize the evil that was done to her.  It's heartbreaking.

5 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Bette Davis wanting to reach out to her "mentally retarded" daughter (obviously, now she'd be labelled as extremely autistic) was also heartbreaking.  She left the bulk of her estate to her son and left out Margot due to the disability, but did she leave a stipulation to her son to take care of his twin sister?

The biography I read said that she didn't leave anything because there were trusts in place for Margo which her son oversees.

[bmoore4026]

Just now, monakane said:

The biography I read said that she didn't leave anything because there were trusts in place for Margo which her son oversees.

Good.

[psychoticstate]

4 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Joan saying Gloria Swanson was robbed of that Oscar and not Joan, because she was absolutely right.

Totally agree.  As much as I love All About Eve, Sunset Boulevard is phenomenally classic Hollywood gold.  Gloria Swanson WAS Norma Desmond.  For anyone interested in the golden era of Hollywood, starting with silent films, Swanson is a fascinating character and a woman much ahead of her time - -from being a healthy eating advocate long before it was the norm (she was a vegetarian and anti-sugar crusader) to producing her own films and having her own fashion line.  Truly a fascinating woman. 

[Milburn Stone]

8 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

Totally agree.  As much as I love All About Eve, Sunset Boulevard is phenomenally classic Hollywood gold.  Gloria Swanson WAS Norma Desmond. 

My favorite mind-blowing "fun fact" about Gloria Swanson/Norma Desmond was that both the actress and the character were only around 50.

[bmoore4026]

8 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

Totally agree.  As much as I love All About Eve, Sunset Boulevard is phenomenally classic Hollywood gold.  Gloria Swanson WAS Norma Desmond.  For anyone interested in the golden era of Hollywood, starting with silent films, Swanson is a fascinating character and a woman much ahead of her time - -from being a healthy eating advocate long before it was the norm (she was a vegetarian and anti-sugar crusader) to producing her own films and having her own fashion line.  Truly a fascinating woman. 

I have a feeling Swanson's loss may have been studio politics.  A silent movie actress making a come back and showing she's just as good in talkies and making the studio heads look like shitheels?  They were like "uh-uh".

Just makes me more mad at Jack Warner and the ageism of Hollywood.  They've never given a shit about talent and still don't.

Didn't know that about Swanson.  And, you know what?  Good for her.  She's an underrated trailblazer.  She would fit in just fine in the present day.

[Mindthinkr]

I'm enjoying this mini series but have to say that it gives me flashbacks of Mad Men. Between the opening credits, music, cocktails galore, wardrobe and Kiernan Shipka playing BD...I keep waiting for Don Draper to come in to get the movie advertised! 

[mochamajesty]

12 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

I'm enjoying this mini series but have to say that it gives me flashbacks of Mad Men. Between the opening credits, music, cocktails galore, wardrobe and Kiernan Shipka playing BD...I keep waiting for Don Draper to come in to get the movie advertised! 

I seriously want this to happen.

Can you imagine Roger Sterling and Joan Crawford? LOL

[psychoticstate]

1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

My favorite mind-blowing "fun fact" about Gloria Swanson/Norma Desmond was that both the actress and the character were only around 50.

Isn't that amazing?  50 was considered over the hill, a has been back in 1949/1950.  

In reality, Swanson still had her television show and various tv appearances, her fashion line and her sixth marriage ahead of her.

Interesting fact - Swanson appeared on The Dick Cavett Show with Janis Joplin.  If you can find the You Tube clip, watch it if only to look at Swanson's face and skin.  She would have been 70 or so at the time and her skin was absolutely flawless.

1 hour ago, bmoore4026 said:

I have a feeling Swanson's loss may have been studio politics.  A silent movie actress making a come back and showing she's just as good in talkies and making the studio heads look like shitheels?  They were like "uh-uh".

Just makes me more mad at Jack Warner and the ageism of Hollywood.  They've never given a shit about talent and still don't.

Didn't know that about Swanson.  And, you know what?  Good for her.  She's an underrated trailblazer.  She would fit in just fine in the present day.

Certainly could have been.  Politics absolutely played a part and likely still does.  Nothing against Bette or Judy Holladay, but Swanson should have picked up the Oscar that year.  Nobody else could have done justice to Norma Desmond. 

Yes, she would fit in just fine today! 

[movingtargetgal]

Whatever Happened to Baby Jane will be airing on TCM on Wednesday at 1:45pm.  So everybody set your DVRs. :)   I have not watched it since I was 8 years old because it scared the HELL out of me.  The scene with the rat made my grandmother and I screamed so loud that her landlord came running up to stairs with a baseball bat because he thought someone was being attacked.  As much as I love Bette Davis and Joan Crawford I could never bring myself to watch this film.  However, this series has made me kinda want to watch it.  Wish me luck so that I can screw up my courage.

[meowmommy]

I guess I'm a little surprised they spoilered the ending to WHTBJ.   Probably a lot of people who never saw the movie would be thinking about watching it.

I think both the actresses tonight did a better job of inhabiting their roles.  Felt more they really were BD and JC.  

1 hour ago, bmoore4026 said:

I have a feeling Swanson's loss may have been studio politics.  A silent movie actress making a come back and showing she's just as good in talkies and making the studio heads look like shitheels?  They were like "uh-uh".

And the same could be said about All About Eve's Margo Channing, the supposedly over the hill actress pushed out by the ingenue.

2 minutes ago, movingtargetgal said:

Whatever Happened to Baby Jane will be airing on TCM on Wednesday at 1:45pm.  So everybody set your DVRs. :)  

It's been sitting on my DVR for well over a year and I haven't started it yet.

Edited March 20, 2017 by meowmommy

[annewithaneee]

My heart broke during Joan's explanation of her sexual abuse. I haven't really loved Susan Sarandon in this so far (I'm not seeing Bette at all but Susan Sarandon in vintage costuming), but she played her reaction so well.

This is probably a pretty off-topic, but right after that scene I couldn't help but think even in the 60's, nearly everyone hearing that story would be horrified and see it as abuse/rape. Yet we still have plenty of famous men proudly bragging about their conquests at all of twelve years old, or younger, as a point of pride that other people normalize and congratulate them for. I hope one of these days we as a society can agree that there's somewhat scandalous age/circumstances to become sexually active, and downright criminal and horrifying ones, across gender lines.

[txhorns79]

Quote

That was a good scene. She didn't mind. She knew it was part of her celebrity.  But the part that spoke volumes about Bette was her rushing out of bed to go protect Victor. She had layers for sure, but she was a very good person at heart.

I thought it was telling for the wrong reasons.   I was reminded of that scene from Mommie Dearest where Joan asks Christina why she can't just treat Joan like any stranger on the street would.  Followed immediately by the "Because I'm not one of your fans..." tackle, crazy strangling, monster roar and scene.  With Bette, she immediately ran off to help her co-worker/fan boy when he was in trouble, but she couldn't be bothered to help her daughter, even though she knew that she was terrible, the night before her scene was filmed.              

[annzeepark914]

20 minutes ago, movingtargetgal said:

The scene with the rat made my grandmother and I screamed so loud that her landlord came running up to stairs with a baseball bat because he thought someone was being attacked.  

@MOVINGTARGETGAL:  Thanks for the laugh!  I had a wonderful vision of this happening, baseball bat and all :>)  Just like in the movies!!

[PamelaMaeSnap]

6 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Anna Marie Brinke is knocking it out of the park as Mamacita.  Her "Which water" delivery was perfect.

Actually, I think Jackie Hoffman is playing Mamacita ... she's kicked ass in all sorts of character roles, most recently as Esther, one of the two employees Rory Gilmore "inherited" when she took over as editor at the Stars Hollow Gazette.  Funny thing, when I saw her I first thought it was Rose Abdoo (Gypsy in Gilmore Girls) but knew I hadn't seen her name in the credits.

ETA Anna Marie Brinke was actually the REAL name of Mamacita, and that Germanic feel probably explains her comment about "1937 -- Hitler." But I agree, she is coming as close to stealing a movie from these two as anyone could. 

Edited March 21, 2017 by PamelaMaeSnap

[bmoore4026]

26 minutes ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

Actually, I think Jackie Hoffman is playing Mamacita ... she's kicked ass in all sorts of character roles, most recently as Esther, one of the two employees Rory Gilmore "inherited" when she took over as editor at the Stars Hollow Gazette.  Funny thing, when I saw her I first thought it was Rose Abdoo (Gypsy in Gilmore Girls) but knew I hadn't seen her name in the credits.

ETA Anna Marie Brinke was actually the REAL name of Mamacita, and that Germanic feel probably explains her comment about "1937 -- Hitler." But I agree, she is coming as close to stealing a movie from these two as anyone could. 

Thanks for the correction.  And I went and corrected my post.

[blaase]

2 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

I have a feeling Swanson's loss may have been studio politics.  A silent movie actress making a come back and showing she's just as good in talkies and making the studio heads look like shitheels?  They were like "uh-uh".

Just makes me more mad at Jack Warner and the ageism of Hollywood.  They've never given a shit about talent and still don't.

Didn't know that about Swanson.  And, you know what?  Good for her.  She's an underrated trailblazer.  She would fit in just fine in the present day.

I think what hurt Gloria Swanson more was the thought that many had  back then that  she was just playing herself in Sunset Boulevard.

 She was after all a so called  " faded" eccentric silent film star in real life.

But to me that's such a cop out because she was beyond brilliant period.

2 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

My favorite mind-blowing "fun fact" about Gloria Swanson/Norma Desmond was that both the actress and the character were only around 50.

Agreed, crazy but then again women were living about 12 years less back in 1950, and look at Susan Sarandon at 70 now,  women that age did not look like that back then.

Edited March 21, 2017 by blaase

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I thought it was telling for the wrong reasons.   I was reminded of that scene from Mommie Dearest where Joan asks Christina why she can't just treat Joan like any stranger on the street would.  Followed immediately by the "Because I'm not one of your fans..." tackle, crazy strangling, monster roar and scene.  With Bette, she immediately ran off to help her co-worker/fan boy when he was in trouble, but she couldn't be bothered to help her daughter, even though she knew that she was terrible, the night before her scene was filmed.              

I saw it differently. I think Bette realized quickly that her daughter wasn't cut out for acting and didn't want her daughter to get stars in her eyes. Was it tough love? Yes, but if her daughter had absolutely no talent in acting, why give her hope? Just give her that gig and let her move on. 

I didn't see that as evidence of Bette not caring for her daughter. Being a little tough yes, but not uncaring.

[LittleIggy]

I saw the real BD on Inside Edition , and she was awful about Bette. She has her own "ministry."

[The Wild Sow]

9 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

In the other sad category was Victor Buono getting arrested in that raid; cops did these whenever they were bored.  But Bette Davis talking the police into letting him go was awesome.  Their budding friendship was also nice to watch.  Did they remain close friends?

On a related note, who was the super cute Greaser gay prostitute?

 

And did he ever figure out that his BJ buddy was Victor Buono, not Charles Laughton?  Who was about 40 years older than Buono, of course!

[TheOtherOne]

10 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

On a related note, who was the super cute Greaser gay prostitute?

If it hasn't been answered yet, it was Dylan Wittrock, brother of Murphy regular Finn Wittrock.

(No pics on his IMDB page, but some here: https://www.backstage.com/u/dylanwittrock/

[marsha]

This is only my second post to this forum as I really quite despised Episode 1 and thought Lange was ridiculous casting. At that time Susan sounded nothing like Bette and the only character I had my eye on was Mamacita. That said; I stuck with it anyway. I knew that no matter how good/campy/serious/funny/insane it got, I'll be there. Where there is now a Lange who's breaking my heart as my darling Miss Joan Crawford. Susan is good as Bette and is actually getting better every episode. I loved her scene with the 'Victor Buono' including the ones about his personal life. As much as I despised Episode 1, I LOVED this one and I have to say that Miss Jackie Hoffman is still knockin' it out of the park every week as 'Mamacicta'.

[Penman61]

Decades ago, critic Pauline Kael compared Judy Davis to Bette Davis, saying Judy was a "genius at moods."  In this episode's scenes, Judy as Hedda tonight really convinced me that she should be playing Davis. It made me think back to how amazing Judy Davis was when she played a similarly mercurial and "difficult" star, Judy Garland, in an otherwise forgettable biopic 10-15 years ago.

Honestly, neither of this series' two stars--whom I love and whose artistry I respect--are right for their roles.   Only Sarandon has a passing resemblance to her original (and only in the eyes), but Sarandon's essence rotates between goofy fun gal and seen-it-all modern earth mother.  Sarandon is not flinty, intense, clipped, and tragic, as Bette Davis was.  

As for Lange as Crawford, it's just...not Crawford, not on-screen, not in interviews, not at all.  Both Sarandon and Lange are amazing actresses, of course, and how enjoyable they can be in this series doesn't overshadow the fact that they are just plain miscast.   

I love watching them trying overcome being so miscast, though.

[chillenout]

13 hours ago, Evagirl said:

I remember reading several years ago that Crawford had a daughter by Clark Gable and that the little girl looked so much like him, she had her ears surgically pinned back a little bit.  I don't know if it's true or not.  But I didn't read it in a tabloid.  

No. It was   Loretta Young who  had his baby. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

Isn't that amazing?  50 was considered over the hill, a has been back in 1949/1950.  

Are things really different now?  It doesn't seem like 50-something actresses in Hollywood are all that sought after today.   

Quote

Decades ago, critic Pauline Kael compared Judy Davis to Bette Davis, saying Judy was a "genius at moods."  In this episode's scenes, Judy as Hedda tonight really convinced me that she should be playing Davis. It made me think back to how amazing Judy Davis was when she played a similarly mercurial and "difficult" star, Judy Garland, in an otherwise forgettable biopic 10-15 years ago.

I think Judy Davis is wonderful in this role.  I'm mixed on the hats though.  They seem to keep getting crazier and crazier.  I'm trying to decide whether they are a campy amusement, or just so weird that they are serving as a distraction in the scene. 

[Ina123]

19 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I think Pauline (Hi Alison Wright) had the best line.  "and you didn't think you were doing a war picture."

And she kick-asses the American accent for a Brit. That line was exactly as an American English speaker would say it.

Oh, Martha. Please come back to "The Americans".

 

Her part isn't big enough but Kiernan Shipka is definitely putting in an Emmy award performance. I think she will go on to be a big star.

That is if she doesn't get lung cancer by the time she is 20 with all the smoking she's done in her roles.

[SunnyBeBe]

Does anyone know if Joan really put a weight around her waist when filming the scene where Bette had to to pick her up or was that done just for this tv show? 

[Evagirl]

Letting everybody know that "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane" is coming on TCM tomorrow afternoon.  It was shown a couple of months ago and the host (Ben Mankiewicz) talked about the actual feud before airing the movie.  This morning I did a search to see if it was airing anytime soon because I thought it would really be cool to watch it again after seeing "Feud" and sure enough, it's coming on tomorrow.  I'll be at work, but I set my DVR.  It's coming on around 12:15pm (Central).

[asabovesobelow]

18 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think that's kind of the point, and it's possible to pity and loathe someone at the same time. 

I think that sums it up perfectly. I pity Joan and loathe her at the same time. I'm absolutely loving this series, but it could also be because I wasn't super familiar with either actress beforehand. All I really knew of Joan was Mommie Dearest, and all I knew of Bette was clips here and there. So far, it seems like Bette was a talented, independent, conflicted woman, whereas Joan was an insecure, pathetic mess. The dinner scene was heartbreaking on so many levels.

On another note, I wish the word movie hadn't replaced picture. It just sounds so much fancier.

[Milburn Stone]

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Are things really different now?  It doesn't seem like 50-something actresses in Hollywood are all that sought after today.   

This is true, but things really are that different now, which is demonstrable by one fact. In Sunset Boulevard, the idea of Joe Gillis being ensnared by Norma Desmond was intended to--and did--elicit horror. Whereas today, let's say with 70-year old Susan Sarandon, audiences are more likely to say, "Yeah, I'd tap that."

[PamelaMaeSnap]

2 hours ago, Ina123 said:

Oh, Martha. Please come back to "The Americans".

My hope beyond hope is that since this is a one-and-done and "The Americans" has re-upped for at least one season after this, they'll re-explore Martha in Moscow NEXT season.

[Chaos Theory]

7 minutes ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

My hope beyond hope is that since this is a one-and-done and "The Americans" has re-upped for at least one season after this, they'll re-explore Martha in Moscow NEXT season.

Me too.  Although as a big fan of Alison Wright I am hoping she stays on Ryan Murphy's list of actresses he uses again.  I wouldn't mind seeing her on some of his other projects.  The Americans had one more year in it so finding a showrunner that has projects up to waZoo only serves her well.

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Does anyone know if Joan really put a weight around her waist when filming the scene where Bette had to to pick her up or was that done just for this tv show? 

Yes she did. And Bette really did have a Coca Cola machine installed on set. 

[monakane]

11 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I saw the real BD on Inside Edition , and she was awful about Bette. She has her own "ministry."

In the biography I read about Bette, no one believed BD's book.  The people who knew them all said that BD was spoiled and indulged by her mother and very bratty.  Also, Bette gave a lot of money to BD and her husband for various business ventures.  When Bette's money started drying up, BD wrote the book.  Bette was heartbroken.  

[darkestboy]

Really loved this episode the best.

The insight both Bette and Joan got during their drinks sessions was great. I can understand why the show wanted to acknowledge that Joan was abused by her stepfather but without dwelling too much on it as well as the bits about Bette's own mother too.

As for their parenting skills, Joan signing the card for Christina and the way she was with the twins along with Bette trying to protect BD's feelings, talking about margo and the way she somewhat mothered Victor in this one as well. It added a nice layer to both Lange and Sarandon's performances I felt.

Loved Bette calling out Hedda on her meddling ways and I kind of got a kick out of Joan's on set antics as well during filming.

Where the remaining five episodes will go, I'm intrigued to find out though, 9/10

[aamankwah]

20 hours ago, Evagirl said:

I remember reading several years ago that Crawford had a daughter by Clark Gable and that the little girl looked so much like him, she had her ears surgically pinned back a little bit.  I don't know if it's true or not.  But I didn't read it in a tabloid.  

It wasn't Crawford but another actress.

[Evagirl]

1 minute ago, aamankwah said:

It wasn't Crawford but another actress.

Yesterday someone pointed out that it was Loretta Young.  I was discombobulated yesterday!  LOL

[aamankwah]

11 minutes ago, Evagirl said:

Yesterday someone pointed out that it was Loretta Young.  I was discombobulated yesterday!  LOL

Oh okay! I saw that myself just now.

[txhorns79]

Quote

This is true, but things really are that different now, which is demonstrable by one fact. In Sunset Boulevard, the idea of Joe Gillis being ensnared by Norma Desmond was intended to--and did--elicit horror. Whereas today, let's say with 70-year old Susan Sarandon, audiences are more likely to say, "Yeah, I'd tap that."

I had thought it was supposed to elicit horror because Norma's grasp on reality was shaky, and the whole setup she had going on (doors without handles or locks, the crazy monkey funeral, watching her old movies over and over, the manservant who used to be her director/husband) was scary and strange.     

Quote

Where the remaining five episodes will go, I'm intrigued to find out though, 9/10

I'm very curious as to what they have for another five episodes if the filming of the movie is now over.  I guess the Oscar intrigue, the quasi-comeback for both actresses and Joan's getting herself replaced on Hush, Hush Sweet Charlotte? 

[psychoticstate]

15 hours ago, blaase said:

I think what hurt Gloria Swanson more was the thought that many had  back then that  she was just playing herself in Sunset Boulevard.

 She was after all a so called  " faded" eccentric silent film star in real life.

But to me that's such a cop out because she was beyond brilliant period.

In the 20s, Swanson WAS Desmond, insofar as popularity, fans and money.  And like Desmond, her popularity did began to wane with the talkies. 

Fortunately, Gloria was much stronger than Norma.  She would never shut herself away and become a recluse in a mansion that was falling down around her.  She picked herself up, dusted herself off, said "okay, that happened," and then kept it moving.  If for nothing else, she's supremely admirable for that in my book. 

And like you said, @blaase, she was beyond brilliant.  A gifted actress as well as a smart and astute businesswoman. 

[Unclejosh]

Recently rewatched Baby Jane for the first time since I was a kid and I can't believe BD was 15 in this.  Not in a creepy way, but she was very big for her age or at least appeared that way on camera.  It didn't even look like she was young enough to be the daughter of the neighbor. Anyone else notice this?  How tall is she in real life?