S21.E04: Week 4: Nick's Hometown

[seasick]

I have ALWAYS been a 'right reasons' watcher-- Hating the plants and the manufacture etc etc. begging for the old innocence and romance to return.    The Chad show on JoJo' s season annoyed me to no end--as did the other planted dramas over the seasons. 

But for some reason something has switched.  The stupidity of these girls has finally put me over the edge.  I actually adore Corinne now and love every thing she does to piss off the others.  I'm beginning to detest Vanessa-- she acts entitled and condescending.  (although I would agree she actually is superior in brains, comportment and looks to the others)  but she still bugs me.  Lighten up Vanessa.--You ARE on a stupid reality show regardless of how bright and superior you think you are.  Yes--'in reality'  you are no better than  the others.   

Raven has a dumb "dead stare" that is creepy.   She should audition for the 'walking dead'. ..unless she can lay off the prescription.  She's a dope and everything she says sound phony to me.   (and it has nothing to do with her accent! I am fascinated and enjoy accents of all kinds)

[truthaboutluv]

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Should have been Luke... Luke had passion.

One person's passion is another's dud because all I remember were his blank faces. Of course I checked out of JoJo's season after two or three episodes because I found all the guys so incredibly dull and uninteresting. But hey, at least if Luke had been the lead we could have looked forward to his album of original songs trying to be pimped during the season, complete with odes dedicated to JoJo. 

[Bobcatkitten]

I don't care where Raven is from. That is a temper than needs anger management. Shouldn't be treated as a comedy sketch. And I don't buy at all that she could kick down a door. 

[waving feather]

Taylor vs. Corinne showdown. If I have to pick a side, it's Corinne all the way. Taylor talks about EQ, but boy, her EQ is low. So much BS was steaming off her when they were confronting each other. I don't blame Corrine for being annoyed. Taylor does talk down to people. Not only to Corinne but she did that to Nick as well during one of their one-on-ones. Girl, stop. Stop trying to explain to people what is book-smart and street-smart. You are not giving a lecture here to 3rd graders. People like Taylor are making me root for Corinne.

Corinne's talking heads are hilarious, because she is just playing along with the producers giving them what they want.

Edited January 25, 2017 by waving feather

[truthaboutluv]

I feel like I missed something with the Raven story. I don't remember the kicking the door down. I remember her saying she had a key so she just unlocked the door and then finding them in the bedroom. I assumed she just walked in because would they lock the bedroom door if the front door was already locked and he lives alone? Maybe when she says she kicked the door, she means that it was slightly ajar and she kicked it wide open.

Not that she went all Hulk and broke down a locked door. Or maybe I'm wrong. And now I've just spent way too much time analyzing this story. What's interesting to me is that this supposedly all happened six months ago. I am always fascinated by these people a few months out of a relationship, coming on The Bachelor/Bachelorette, saying they're ready to marry this lead that at best they'll spend a few hours with.

[yorklee2]

12 hours ago, chocolatine said:

As for the Raven "culture" conversation: I'm not originally from the US, and having never been to the South, I have no notions about the people there other than that they speak with a different accent. I based my initial judgement of her as trashy on the fact that she reacted to her boyfriend's cheating with violence, and was apparently so proud of herself for it that she felt the need to relay the story in graphic detail on national (international? I think people watch the show in other countries) television.

I don't blame any one for coming to this conclusion. I stated as much on page one. Acting trashy is acting trashy no matter where you are from. Some posts did seem to veer into a blanket generalization of our region though which is not fair or accurate. Raven seems to have played right into that perception and although I'm sure she thought it made her look cute it most definitely did not. Just the fact that she would think that speaks volumes about her mindset. And as you said she seemed to be proud of it. And the fact that she would say it on national tv...unbelievable. 

So I can see most definitely why people would get that impression. Although I think that story was embellished somewhat. Last week I said that I didn't think it was fair to judge Raven just by her accent, that so far I liked her and in my opinion we really hadn't seen enough of her to warrant a strong opinion either way. Well I think this week we saw enough to form a opinion and unfortunately it wasn't good. The editors have a way of swaying our opinions back and forth with their editing (for instance on the day time portion of the date she came across very likable) but even if she shined for the rest of the season you can't unhear that horrible story. 

Edited to add: I think it was the language she used that made her look more trashy. The kicking the door down and the fighting made her just look violent and dumb. The knowing what the woman's vagina looked like and him thrusting was not a good visual. Too much information and not necessary. She could have got the message across without going into graphic detail. 

Edited January 25, 2017 by yorklee2

[waving feather]

FWIW, I am not against people calling Corinne out. I liked the way Kristina did it because she was very straight-forward, no BS. She wasn't being condescending like Taylor. You can see the difference in Corinne's reaction too. Corinne basically had nothing left to argue with Kristina because she knew she was beaten but she came onto Taylor aggressively because she could sense Taylor's BS.

Astrid, once again, the voice of reason saying how she was tired of talking about Corinne all the time during group settings. A common enemy is fun and all, but these girls need to fixate on Corinne less.

Danielle reminded me of Brit from Chris' season from the way she was responding with "yeah" to what anyone says. I get that is a habit but man, that is not a good habit.

How old is Raven? Because she looks rough without the make-up when they showed her chilling at the house with Danielle. Corinne, on the other hand, looks much better with less make-up.

Edited January 25, 2017 by waving feather

[yorklee2]

49 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I feel like I missed something with the Raven story. I don't remember the kicking the door down. I remember her saying she had a key so she just unlocked the door and then finding them in the bedroom. I assumed she just walked in because would they lock the bedroom door if the front door was already locked and he lives alone? Maybe when she says she kicked the door, she means that it was slightly ajar and she kicked it wide open.

She had a key to the front door but she said the bedroom door was locked. And yes who would lock their bedroom door if the front door was locked? Just plays right into my theory that the story was embellished somewhat. Even Nick looked surprised when she said that. As if he was thinking "how could she kick a door down??" I've heard when anyone is extremely angry they have more strength than they normally would so I guess it's possible but I have trouble believing it.

Edited January 25, 2017 by yorklee2

[huahaha]

9 hours ago, Nowhere said:

Lol! Did you actually think I was serious? 

Your comment seemed pretty earnest!  ?  Glad you don't actually approve of boob tucking.

[seasick]

1 hour ago, scribe95 said:

And I don't buy at all that she could kick down a door. 

I thought that too.  She's full of baloney.  Trying to be this tough girl--calling Nick an Asshole etc.  She doesn't know enough to realize that "trashy" --which seems to be the most popular thing on tv-- is just trash.   Very unflattering--and by the way it did appear that Nick was told  allow her to tell this  -what she thought was self- aggrandizing -story. It made her sound like an idiot. 

[yorklee2]

45 minutes ago, seasick said:

I thought that too.  She's full of baloney.  Trying to be this tough girl--calling Nick an Asshole etc.  She doesn't know enough to realize that "trashy" --which seems to be the most popular thing on tv-- is just trash.   Very unflattering--and by the way it did appear that Nick was told  allow her to tell this  -what she thought was self- aggrandizing -story. It made her sound like an idiot. 

While I agree mostly with this post I don't remember her ever calling Nick a asshole. Wasn't that Taylor who said that her friends thought he was?

[ljenkins782]

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Danielle had her ponytail strategically placed, I'm guessing the censors weren't going to let her get away with that dress.  Why not wear a fun dress that fits?  Or atleast wear that one at a rose ceremony when it wouldn't be as noticeable when you are standing.

Her hair was a hot mess on that date, did they drive to the date in a convertible or something? 

That was one of the more boring one on ones to sit through, I couldn't wait for them to get back to the house and the other girls. 

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It was a last minute decision. They were supposed to go to St. Thomas or something but a Hurricane made travel impossible so they switched to his hometown. 

Ha, is that why Chris Harrison's speech didn't match up with their destination? He was all "we're beginning a journey that's going to take you around the world...and now...off to Wisconsin!!!" Lol.

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Whitney and Astrid were sitting next to eachother and looked like twins! I haven't heard Whitney say a peep and actually thought her name was Lindsay until coming here.

There's a Whitney? 

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Raven's stiletto attack gave me visions of the kill scene in Single White Female. Nick must really like "spunky" to think attempted murder is cute. I'd have flushed anyone for a story like that. Imagine if a guy told that story? "She was cheating, so I kicked in the door and beat her with his hush puppies." How charming and spunky!

Ugh, that's where my mind went too. That scene freaks me out. 

I thought Nick's face during that story was leading us to a "can I walk you out?" moment, he seemed a bit taken aback by the details. Although to be honest, I thought Raven also showed some signs of regretting telling the story about halfway through it. 

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But why all the dramatic music at the rose ceremony, producers? We know Corinne is getting the last rose because we've seen her in tons of scenes in the this-season-on trailer. Hell, we've seen her fighting with Taylor in the previews for THIS VERY EPISODE. Congrats, Bachelor: you played yourself.

I agree that the show is overplaying its hand with Corinne. So far the structure of the season is exactly like Bachelorette last year, when Chad consumed entire episodes along with his piles of deli meat.  A little goes a long way, folks! Don't spend all your time on the villain, because once they're gone, no one will know anything about the remaining contestants and your viewers will be bored out of their skulls. 

 

Same with Olivia on Ben's season. It's entertaining for a little while and does stir up the rest of the house a bit, but Corinne's nonsense isn't even entertaining anymore. Her interviews are trying so, so, so hard to be soundbites and it's falling flat. She's much more entertaining when she's winding up the others, please cut back on the "cute" talking heads. She's gone off the Chad track and deep into Blonde Twins territory with the manufactured stupidity and I've seen enough of those damn twins to last me a lifetime. 

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The farm date was so dumb.  Nick was uncomfortable, admittedly a city kid, and having the girls shovel poop is just lame.  Gee, what a great date, not only are their 15 people on it, we get to shovel poop!  Said no one ever.

Yeah, that was a lame gimmick. Also, they had regular clothes on, which I'm guessing they had to throw away after wading knee deep in shit all day. This date would have made some sense on Chris Soules' season where they were pretending the "winner" would have to live on a farm in Iowa, but what did this date have to do with Nick? 

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I get that Corinne comes across as insecure and immature but why are these women calling out Corinne's age when there are women that are younger or the same age as her? And to be fixated enough where it literally becomes the circle of conversation is exhausting. Everything that these women can see is what Nick can see as well.

And my last parting note - Taylor, your academic education has got you thinking that you're more mature and smarter than you really are. Don't let competition get in the way of what your occupation is intended for - your role is to help people, not judge them or try to impart a psychological opinion that is unsolicited. I would think it's at the very least an unspoken rule of thumb that people in such fields should refrain from assessing people within their circles (friends, family, co-workers, etc.) and certainly not psychoanalyze someone on national television. As annoying as Corinne is, I would have to side with her on the whole Taylor thing. Taylor, build a damn bridge and get over it fast 

 

Taylor seems utterly delusional about her relationship with Nick and appears to have forgotten that she's actually a year younger than Corinne, who is also too young for Nick. I guess she hasn't seen him with Vanessa, because she would realize that this deep connection she thinks has isn't there. 

Also, she's a classic early 20something who's just learned a bunch of stuff and needs to share with everyone. 

I'm just happy that the inevitable "rivals-go-on-a-2-on-1-date" is finally upon us and Corinne (and possibly Taylor as well) will be left to find their home from the scary location du jour. Looks like alligators will be playing a role in this one. 

[kingshearte]

12 hours ago, deSchenke said:

The manner in which she states her job makes me think she's very insecure. 

The manner in which she does and says everything makes me think she's very insecure. Which really is unfortunate, because under it all, I suspect she's not actually dumb, and while "running a multi-million dollar company" seems like a bit of a stretch, she probably is doing something for her father's company that probably does require some brains. It strikes me as very likely that she has had plenty of people basically assume she's little more than a dumb little sex bunny, so she's trying to declare that not true but maybe has also internalized a lot of it, so that, despite what she says, she kind of feels like that's all she has to offer as well? I don't know. But if what we're seeing is even an approximation of her real self, I am simultaneously sympathetic and soooooooooo done with her.

12 hours ago, DriveInSaturday said:

I'm mad about the over-focus on Corinne (and her "feud" with Taylor) just because it's so darn done to death. Corrine is harmless, drunk, and not terribly clever. Taylor is annoying, sanctimonious, and immature, but ultimately also harmless. They're just basic girls of the same age used to being the tallest and skinniest on the block henpicking each other out of insecurity. Both feel like reality TV stock characters.

It's a particular shame because there seem to be a lot of fun, funny, interesting girls in the "also ran" group like Alexis, Sarah, Astrid, Kristina, and Jasmine that I would like to see get more screen time. Also the girls who are in it for the long haul with the exception of Danielle L have personalities and substance! So there's probably other drama and interesting conversations that have been left on the cutting room floor in favor of standard tropes. The editing is just lazy.

Also this. I can sort of understand all the focus on Chad last year, because the rest of the guys were pretty dull, but there are some legitimately interesting women here. I love Alexis — no hope of winning, but they could totally be buds. And Astrid, Kristina, and Sarah all seem to have insightful and/or witty things to say, and I'd love to hear more of them. A little villain drama here and there is fun, but when we get beaten over the head with it (wrong week to use such a metaphor?) incessantly, it just becomes tiresome. 

[huahaha]

3 minutes ago, kingshearte said:

The manner in which she does and says everything makes me think she's very insecure. Which really is unfortunate, because under it all, I suspect she's not actually dumb, and while "running a multi-million dollar company" seems like a bit of a stretch, she probably is doing something for her father's company that probably does require some brains. It strikes me as very likely that she has had plenty of people basically assume she's little more than a dumb little sex bunny, so she's trying to declare that not true but maybe has also internalized a lot of it, so that, despite what she says, she kind of feels like that's all she has to offer as well?

I was born in a '9 year. At age 11, I told my mother I'd seen three decades and my opinion should be respected. Corinne's "I run a multimillion dollar company" sounds very similar (and similarly immature).

I've also known more than one "assistant to the CEO" who believed they were the COO. Corinne appears to answer phones and trouble shoot. It's a perfectly respectable job, but she's not exactly Sheryl Sandberg.

[JenE4]

4 hours ago, seasick said:

I have ALWAYS been a 'right reasons' watcher-- Hating the plants and the manufacture etc etc. begging for the old innocence and romance to return.    The Chad show on JoJo' s season annoyed me to no end--as did the other planted dramas over the seasons. 

But for some reason something has switched.  The stupidity of these girls has finally put me over the edge.  I actually adore Corinne now and love every thing she does to piss off the others.  I'm beginning to detest Vanessa-- she acts entitled and condescending.  (although I would agree she actually is superior in brains, comportment and looks to the others)  but she still bugs me.  Lighten up Vanessa.--You ARE on a stupid reality show regardless of how bright and superior you think you are.  Yes--'in reality'  you are no better than  the others.   

Raven has a dumb "dead stare" that is creepy.   She should audition for the 'walking dead'. ..unless she can lay off the prescription.  She's a dope and everything she says sound phony to me.   (and it has nothing to do with her accent! I am fascinated and enjoy accents of all kinds)

Welcome to the dark side, Seasick. I hope you'll find that the show is infinitely more entertaining as a Wrong Reasons viewer. If you squint hard enough, you can still see the Right Reasons Love Journey

On to Raven's story. I, for one, believe every vivid detail of that story.   Those were definitely the details of a woman scorned; I'm surprised we didn't get the exact brand of shoe and GPS route to Little Rock. I don't think "Kick down" implies that the bedroom door went flying straight down off its hinges like in the movies, but I would imagine it's not that difficult to kick the little lock part that you can jiggle in the doorknob open and kick the door open.

[Mabinogia]

2 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

Edited to add: I think it was the language she used that made her look more trashy. The kicking the door down and the fighting made her just look violent and dumb. The knowing what the woman's vagina looked like and him thrusting was not a good visual. Too much information and not necessary. She could have got the message across without going into graphic detail.

That just made it soo much worse. Why did she feel the need to say she saw this woman's vagina? I could be more understanding if she's said it as something she was ashamed of, that she lost her temper and did something so incredibly stupid (physically attacking someone is never okay unless you feel your life is in danger) but she was saying it all "hell yeah! I beat the shit out of him because I'm such a bad ass!" It just made her look stupid and violent.

That and the sheer stupidity of telling a guy you want to marry that you are not shy about beating the shit out of him if he messes up. Not something most people are looking for in a mate. HAHA

I will say, Nick has quite a variety of women, and seems into a few different personality types. It's kind of interesting to watch who he gravitates toward

[TheFinalRose]

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She's gone off the Chad track and deep into Blonde Twins territory with the manufactured stupidity and I've seen enough of those damn twins to last me a lifetime. 

 

Then I'm sorry to inform you that the same folks that gave us the sorry Ben & Lauren Ever After were shopping around a reality show with those same damn twins. I answered a poll on Us Magazine online that asked "Would you be interested in such a show?" with a resounding NO. So, I believe, did most of the respondents (I'm hoping) because I haven't heard anything about it since.

[Kbilly]

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"that's not the real answer but ok". 

I was so impressed by that comment from Nick. I have to say he is actually having meaty conversations with these women that we have not heard from Bachelors past. And his ability to roll with that DolphinShark convo was pretty endearing too.

A blog I read compared Vanessa to the actress Nancy Travis and now I can't unsee it!

[Vicky8675309]

I'm sure this has already been discussed but.....

Imagine if a guy beat a woman with a shoe for cheating and then bragged about it on a tv dating show.

[backformore]

If Corrine really does "run" a multi-million dollar company, did it have to shut down so she could go on the Bachelor?

Because, really, if you run the company, you can't just take off like that.

[yorklee2]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

That just made it soo much worse. Why did she feel the need to say she saw this woman's vagina? I could be more understanding if she's said it as something she was ashamed of, that she lost her temper and did something so incredibly stupid (physically attacking someone is never okay unless you feel your life is in danger) but she was saying it all "hell yeah! I beat the shit out of him because I'm such a bad ass!" It just made her look stupid and violent.

Exactly. You said it so well. She initially did say she was embarrassed to tell the story but then negated it by immediately and zestfully jumping right into it. To the contrary she acted anything but embarrassed. No hesitation, no pulling the story out of her, no appearance that it was a painful memory. I wonder if she realizes that now she really should be embarrassed.

Edited January 25, 2017 by yorklee2

[ByTor]

My take on the Raven story isn't that she exaggerated it, I think she flat out made it up.  As soon as she said the bedroom door was locked I said that she's full of crap.  She's soooo embarrassed about being cheated on, and SOOOOO embarrassed by that story, but she got so into saying it on a nationally televised show that she even included flailing those scrawny arms to show how she was hitting them.  

[Canada]

32 minutes ago, TheFinalRose said:

Then I'm sorry to inform you that the same folks that gave us the sorry Ben & Lauren Ever After were shopping around a reality show with those same damn twins. I answered a poll on Us Magazine online that asked "Would you be interested in such a show?" with a resounding NO. So, I believe, did most of the respondents (I'm hoping) because I haven't heard anything about it since.

Ha... sorry to do this to you, but it's real!!

[Captain Asshat]

On 1/24/2017 at 11:17 AM, dleighg said:

Um, does any farm actually milk cows by hand? In the last how many decades?

No, they do not. However, those operations that offer tours tend do have a cow milking demo and allow visitors to <snicker> try their hand at it. Or, they just asked these guys to pull out a cow, stool, and bucket. Besides, this is TB, where any time you can legally televise a woman yanking on something until a white liquid sprays out, it's TV gold.

[dleighg]

6 minutes ago, Captain Asshat said:

No, they do not. However, those operations that offer tours tend do have a cow milking demo and allow visitors to <snicker> try their hand at it. Or, they just asked these guys to pull out a cow, stool, and bucket. Besides, this is TB, where any time you can legally televise a woman yanking on something until a white liquid sprays out, it's TV gold.

Good Lord I'm so naive I didn't even realize that. I was thinking more of the Ben part.

[saltycheese]

4 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I feel like I missed something with the Raven story. I don't remember the kicking the door down. I remember her saying she had a key so she just unlocked the door and then finding them in the bedroom. I assumed she just walked in because would they lock the bedroom door if the front door was already locked and he lives alone? Maybe when she says she kicked the door, she means that it was slightly ajar and she kicked it wide open.

Not that she went all Hulk and broke down a locked door. Or maybe I'm wrong. And now I've just spent way too much time analyzing this story. What's interesting to me is that this supposedly all happened six months ago. I am always fascinated by these people a few months out of a relationship, coming on The Bachelor/Bachelorette, saying they're ready to marry this lead that at best they'll spend a few hours with.

I was so taken aback by her story that I tried to convince myself that maybe she was describing a dream that she had after the cheating took place? 

[bethster2000]

If he had a brain in his head, he'd choose Alexis. Take it from someone who has been happily married for 20 years: you want to choose the person who makes you laugh.

[deSchenke]

So does Raven live with her parents?  Does she not have a car of her own?  She stated she was with her parents at the time of the call, and her "Mama" handed her the keys to her car.

 

I like the Russian.  She's pretty and seems intelligent.  I hope we learn more about her.

[saltycheese]

Vanessa is beginning to bug me. It's like she's taking on a Head Sister Wife role, where all the younger sister wives complain to her when the husband is acting out and it's her role, as the wife with top status, to speak to him on behalf of all of them. 

The scrapbook felt incredibly calculated. It makes sense that she'd save it for a group date, when she needed to make more of an impact. On a solo date, the scrapbook would have gotten lost in the shuffle. 

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, saltycheese said:

 

Vanessa is beginning to bug me. It's like she's taking on a Head Sister Wife role, where all the younger sister wives complain to her when the husband is acting out and it's her role, as the wife with top status, to speak to him on behalf of all of them. 

I didn't get the impression that Vanessa was speaking for anyone but herself when she addressed Nick about the Corinne situation. I thought that was especially the case when she brought up what sounded like conversations they had on their 1 on 1, regarding how he knew people would regard him as the lead. She also kept everything related to just her and her relationship with Nick - e.g. "he knows I care about him..." I don't think Vanessa's feelings were anything other than she was pissed at seeing Nick in a bouncy castle with Corinne.

1 minute ago, saltycheese said:

The scrapbook felt incredibly calculated. It makes sense that she'd save it for a group date, when she needed to make more of an impact. On a solo date, the scrapbook would have gotten lost in the shuffle. 

Funny, I would think it would be the opposite - that it would have way more impact when she had all his attention rather than in the middle of him having to remember nine other conversations with nine other women. 

[saltycheese]

5 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Funny, I would think it would be the opposite - that it would have way more impact when she had all his attention rather than in the middle of him having to remember nine other conversations with nine other women. 

Right - we are agreeing here. Technically she was on the group date when she showed it to him.

I liked her in the beginning. Just not as much lately. 

*Nevermind, we aren't agreeing. I disagree and think that the scrapbook would be a tool best saved for a group date (which is how she used it). She doesn't need the scrapbook on a solo date.  

Edited January 25, 2017 by saltycheese
Misread

[yorklee2]

18 minutes ago, deSchenke said:

I like the Russian.  She's pretty and seems intelligent.  I hope we learn more about her.

I agree. Now that she's getting more confident and coming out of her shell it stands out even more. She's arguably one of the prettiest women there. I think she's beautiful and yes she seems intelligent. More so emotionally intelligent. With her background she seems more grounded and measured.

[OldWiseOne]

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Would Luke have kept Corinne around, essentially taking advantage of her need, naivety and poor boundaries, and ramming his tongue down various bits publicly? I don't think so.

He would have if the producer's told him to.

[Canada]

7 minutes ago, OldWiseOne said:

He would have if the producer's told him to.

Exactly.  The Bachelors do what they're told to do by the producers.

[ljenkins782]

1 hour ago, Canada said:

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Then I'm sorry to inform you that the same folks that gave us the sorry Ben & Lauren Ever After were shopping around a reality show with those same damn twins. I answered a poll on Us Magazine online that asked "Would you be interested in such a show?" with a resounding NO. So, I believe, did most of the respondents (I'm hoping) because I haven't heard anything about it since.

Ha... sorry to do this to you, but it's real!!

Oh wow, that is sorry news indeed. Not that I will watch it or anything (though I did manage to mainline that  horrible Ben & Lauren show during a snowstorm and the presence of the twins made a bad show worse), but I hate that their phony empty-headed bullshit is being rewarded. 

From that link: 

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The virtually identical duo charmed both viewers and executives with their hilarity (both intentional and non). 

THEY DID NOT! Stop trying to make the twins happen! 

Also, whoever is running programming at Freeform needs to be fired, these are terrible ideas and terrible shows. 

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I was so impressed by that comment from Nick. I have to say he is actually having meaty conversations with these women that we have not heard from Bachelors past. And his ability to roll with that DolphinShark convo was pretty endearing too.

I like that he'll push a conversation past the bland agreeing, like not letting DolphinShark off the hook about her Sharkness (I believe her compromise was to agree that she was a Sholphin, lol) and he was right about the cheating thing. 

As for a lot of his other conversations though, I often feel like he's trying too hard. Like, the woman brings up the obligatory painful past story and he immediately goes into therapist/interviewer mode (made worse by his mumbling and tendency to talk too fast). "So, how did that make you feel/how did that shape you, etc?" 

I guess it's technically a legit conversational tactic but it comes across as so inorganic in this setting. His best moments are really when he's just kicking back, that's part of why he was so appealing in BiP. He spent most of his time just hanging out making snarky comments and observations. That's why I like his scenes with Alexis, there's no future there, they both know it and they don't have to force anything.

[Mabinogia]

21 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

As for a lot of his other conversations though, I often feel like he's trying too hard. Like, the woman brings up the obligatory painful past story and he immediately goes into therapist/interviewer mode (made worse by his mumbling and tendency to talk too fast). "So, how did that make you feel/how did that shape you, etc?"

That probably comes from being second oldest of 11 siblings (I think that's right. I know he's on the old end). I felt it more on paradise, but he's like everyone's big brother. So the girls he's not romantically interested in he is big brotherly interested in. That's the feeling I get from him. He's a nurturer. It's one of his better qualities, to me. That, even if he doesn't want to bone them, he is willing to talk to them and actually listen.

However, I think the "painful past" therapist crap is being pushed a bit by the producers who seem to think we just LOVE the sob stories and seeing these idiots rise above their troubled past in front of cameras.

[ByTor]

I love these recaps.  Hard to pick out a favorite part, but this was particularly awesome:

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"I don't know if I'm afraid and turned on or both," Nick says. Yes. That's exactly how he says it. "I don't know if I'm A and B or both A and B." Idiot. Then he gives one of those weird sly-eye looks and says, with his marble mouth, "For the record, I've never cheated on anyone." Except it sounds like, "Aivvnairsheetedneewon." At the end of their date, they skate inside the Milwaukee Art Museum, which is totally original. Don't even think that someone has done something like that before, because they haven't.

[FamilyVan]

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When I think of southern stereotypes I don't think of violence.  It was more "my mama told me to go."  I also think she was playing up the accent, the language and the stories.

Yeah... I have to admit when she was telling this story I was hearing "Fancy Don't Let me Down" in my head... lol

[ribboninthesky1]

21 hours ago, kazza said:

I don't find her vapid, either. Asking his ex why she thought Nick is still on the market was a smart question, assuming she wasn't fed it by the producers. She reminds me of Caila, who was also measured in her demeanor. It's a smart strategy for someone considering post-Bachelor exposure, which I'm assuming includes pretty much every woman on the show. 

Agreed - she reminds me of Caila as well.  

I'm glad not to be alone in disliking Vanessa.  But I always roll my eyes at contestants challenging anyone, whether it is others or the lead, about right reasons or "if you like her/act this way, then don't give me a rose/send me home" whatever.  You chose to come on a show with two dozen women and want to act like it's a typical dating scenario? Sure, Jan. I miss the days when women chose to leave.  Because...you know you don't have to stay, right? That goes for all the whiners. 

[yorklee2]

2 hours ago, ByTor said:

I love these recaps.  Hard to pick out a favorite part, but this was particularly awesome:

Yes! He said something similar in last weeks recap. I laughed out loud both times. Actually I do a lot of laughing reading his recaps. He's funny and snarky. If you didn't get to read last weeks check it out. I hope he does the recaps for the rest of the season.

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, FamilyVan said:

Yeah... I have to admit when she was telling this story I was hearing "Fancy Don't Let me Down" in my head... lol

Well I wasn't before but now I am, lol. 

33 minutes ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

I'm glad not to be alone in disliking Vanessa.  But I always roll my eyes at contestants challenging anyone, whether it is others or the lead, about right reasons or "if you like her/act this way, then don't give me a rose/send me home" whatever.  You chose to come on a show with two dozen women and want to act like it's a typical dating scenario? Sure, Jan. I miss the days when women chose to leave.  Because...you know you don't have to stay, right? That goes for all the whiners. 

True, they signed up for this frankly, creepy and weird show. However, does that mean they are all supposed to just shut up and never have an opinion, ever? Hell, Nick on the first night encouraged the women to see this as their journey too and be honest about how they felt and had his whole empowerment speech. Again, the issue wasn't Nick kissing someone else, being on a date with someone else - of course he's doing that. 

But during what was a pool party where he was supposed to be hanging out with the women, he went off in a freaking pink princess bouncy castle, jumping around with a drunk 24 year old, who was then grinding on him as he kissed her. I like Nick but he looked like a creepy idiot in that scene with Corinne and most people on here have said the two of them together is kind of creepy because she looks like an oversexed child. So what was so wrong in Vanessa addressing Nick directly about the situation because it bothered her?

[yorklee2]

2 hours ago, FamilyVan said:

Yeah... I have to admit when she was telling this story I was hearing "Fancy Don't Let me Down" in my head... lol

I never did like that song. For the singing and the story behind it. Not one of Reba's best for sure.

I get why you thought of it. After her mother gave her the keys to go to what she knew could be a violent situation I can see her encouraging Raven to go on the Bachelor with a, "here's your one chance Raven don't let me down".

Edited January 25, 2017 by yorklee2

[truthaboutluv]

1 minute ago, yorklee2 said:

After her mother gave her the keys to go to what she knew could be a violent situation I can see her encouraging Raven to go on the Bachelor with a, "here's your one chance Raven don't let me down".

LMAO...

[violet and green]

5 hours ago, OldWiseOne said:

He would have if the producer's told him to.

Not all the male leads on The Bachelor behave like this. Not even Juan Pablo.

I choose to believe in Luke! :))

[catrice2]

Gotta disagree with you Yorklee....I love to watch Reba sing that song....something about the head moves and facial expressions.....now I can't stop thinking about the song and luckily I missed Raven telling the story.

[rebel2u]

When I look at Raven from the neck up, she looks to me like a little person.  Not sure why.

[yorklee2]

http://www.inquisitr.com/3917951/the-bachelor-2017-who-is-raven-gates-ex-that-cheated-on-her-why-didnt-arkansas-get-to-see-her-story/

Found this very interesting article about Raven and her ex. Apparently the ABC affiliate in Little Rock didn't run Monday's segment of her cheating story. Hmm...this keeps getting better and better. Reality Steve found out the ex's name and who he was. Thought it was funny though that RS didn't initially know he was a doctor and thought he was a football player. She said it plainly on the episode. Her friend who saw them together at the bar told her that the woman said, "I'm going to f___k that doctor". Just goes to show how much he pays attention.

Something else odd... according to a poll of Reality Steve's most viewers liked Raven better after the episode aired and social media loved her.

Edited January 26, 2017 by yorklee2

[xtwheeler]

22 hours ago, kalibean said:

The most offensive part of that story (IMO) is how damn long she took to tell it. Mine woulda gone something like this, "My momma called me and said she saw my boyfriend kissing on some girl at the bar and that he took her home...so I went right on over there, busted the door open and caught him balls deep. Sure did take that girl's shoe and gave him a what for. Nasty trash." 

Source: lived in the south for 80% of my life. Short, sweet and with a bit of twang, Raven. Sheesh. 

As for the date, I wouldn't have minded any of it except shoveling shit. Feeding a baby cow? Awww. Feeding the big cows and milking cows just seems like a lighthearted way to crack each other up. I loved that they were ripping on him for his awkward teat technique. 

I think perhaps Carrie Underwood should be taken to task for exactly how much damage "Before He Cheats" did to the image of Southern women.  (I won't lie, I love the song.) 

Also, I think many non-Southerners might not know exactly how offensive a term "hillbilly" is.  It isn't synonymous with Southern.

That said, as a Californian, I couldn't imagine what else Arkansas could be beside Southern!

Oh, topic.  I can usually put up with a crazy villain or two. Ashley I and Kelsey Poe were actually even hard to look away from.  But I'll be damned, Corrine is actually so obnoxious and intolerable that I can't watch until she's gone.  She's just so freaking horrible, and despite what the producers think, not enjoyable or entertaining to watch.  Sometimes I wonder what this show would be like if instead of these stupid producer plants we actually had women who really actually stood a chance, and each week the stakes were raised and the emotions deepened and it was harder and harder to say goodbye to someone with real potential.  Imagine if by the time there were 10-12 candidates left, the bachelor had actually spent real, quality time with each one, knew a fairly decent amount about their background, and was discovering who each was as a person.  I would watch the hell out of a show where there were real stakes as real people's emotions and hearts were on the line week after week, rather than decisions being made based on who handled bungee jumping the best since "it is really symbolic about the kind of trust you have and the leaps of faith you make in a relationship." (No it isn't.) 

[Superpole2000]

On 1/24/2017 at 6:53 PM, Nowhere said:

Afterthought. In the video above, why didn't Nick kindly tuck the boob back into the dress or at least alert Danielle to the problem? There's no way he didn't notice but he just kept on dancing.

I can't recall ever being in a situation where I had to tell my date to not expose her nipples, so it's hard to say what would be normal. If I truly cared about my date, though, I would be mortified for her and block her from the audience's view and alert her to the problem. But that's modest old me. Clearly these two famewhoring exhibitionists didn't consider it much of a problem at all.

I have a beef with the editors for thinking ~30 minutes of Corinne per episode is a good use of time. The show is already tough enough to slog through without all of that irritating fake stuff. I really hope they will change this for future seasons. I can't imagine too many viewers are tuning in because of Corinne...more likely that they are tuning in despite Corinne.

[catrice2]

56 minutes ago, yorklee2 said:

http://www.inquisitr.com/3917951/the-bachelor-2017-who-is-raven-gates-ex-that-cheated-on-her-why-didnt-arkansas-get-to-see-her-story/

Found this very interesting article about Raven and her ex. Apparently the ABC affiliate in Little Rock didn't run Monday's segment of her cheating story. Hmm...this keeps getting better and better. Reality Steve found out the ex's name and who he was. Thought it was funny though that RS didn't initially know he was a doctor and thought he was a football player. She said it plainly on the episode. Her friend who saw them together at the bar told her that the woman said, "I'm going to f___k that doctor". Just goes to show how much he pays attention.

Something else odd... according to a poll of Reality Steve's most viewers liked Raven better after the episode aired and social media loved her.

I saw a Cosmopolitan blurb that said how much they loved that she did this and that she "knew her worth."  I think Helen Gurley Brown wanted something different when she created that magazine.   Being a woman and knowing your worth has nothing to do with assaulting someone.   I am disappointed that she hit the woman.  Even if you go crazy, you should go crazy on the person that is cheating on you, and them only.  Again, for all the women who are shouting, "you go girl," supposedly these are real people with real lives.  Imagine if a man had done the same thing? We would be calling for his arrest. 

In no way could I respect her after this, but for those that like her to each their own.  I didn't even see it and I am appalled.  Did she really say, "ride or die?" Nick really likes them  young and immature.  I can't respect him if Corrine and someone who (with mommy's approval) goes around hitting people in the head with a shoe.  I wonder what his parents thought of that little story?  She is lucky that they did not press charges.  She was already not a favorite for me, but this just confirms my first impression....and it had nothing to do with the accent. 

I really, really am having a hard time with Nick.  Maybe I should try to watch another season when I can at least understand what the lead is saying?  I saw been in 1 or 1 1/2 episodes and his "like," and bad grammar just killed it for me. Nick with the tilting of the head and talking like the dummy that is in that scary Twilight Zone episode it is difficult for me to get interested or take him seriously.