S01.E13: Three Sentences

[wilnil]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

So Kevin married Sophie, wonder what went wrong.  

I kind of like the character of Kevin, so it's sad to say, but it would be pretty much in character for him to cheat on her, especially if he was already an actor at that point and meeting attractive actresses -- he'd crave the ego boost of having other women be into him even if not particularly wanting the extracurricular sex.

Editing to add: I definitely saw the "Sofie" spelling on the note we saw in Kate's brief memory flashback. Might have been one of the other girls writing it and misspelling her name, though.

Edited January 25, 2017 by wilnil

[birkenstock]

2 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I am all about Young Kate. I know I shouldn't judge Sophie at age 10 but unless the show shows Sophie and Young Kate continual besties during the teen years, I ain't gonna like her.

Yes! It's been almost an hour since the show ended and I'm holding a grudge against a fictional 10 year old.  Sophie is not a true best friend. My heart softened when Kevin said he loved Sophie and wouldn't share, but Kate deserved better from her twin and bff. How did no one stay with Kate at the Madonna party? She's a cool kid! Also, what caused her to drift apart from her former bff Grace?

The horse guy was a total creeper. Insisting that they would get together was a major red flag. 

I wonder when the birthday party was in relation to their birthday.  Randall never intended on inviting his whole class (so it would be short notice) while Kevin and Kate's friends knew to expect invitations. I liked that his true friends were the only ones there instead of classmates who would have attended solely out of obligation. I love that Randall had a nerd friend he drew mazes with. 

Edited January 25, 2017 by birkenstock

[UsernameFatigue]

2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I thought Rebecca said they were expecting 45 kids.  It just looked like a normal party because Randall's class didn't show.

I think this will be a UO, but I thought William was a jerk.  You show up unexpectedly to your son's work, he tells you he needs to work through lunch, and you emotionally blackmail him into taking the afternoon off?  I haven't seen any indication that Randall needed to learn how to treasure moments with his family so count me unimpressed.

I like Toby, and I really liked him with Kevin.  Glad he could help Kevin out, but what a crappy brother Kevin has the potential to turn out to be.  Kate is pissed at her mom for being thin,but she is super close to the brother who marries her mean-girling best friend?  Nice.

Horse guy needs to be reported to the head of the retreat center.  Yuck.

I didn't think that William was being a jerk so much as the writers were writing a scene that I do not think was in keeping with William's character. He has never been to Randall's workplace before, but shows up without calling first. When Randall says he is working through lunch, William doesn't take no for an answer. Then when they are leaving Randall makes a point of saying to the co worker that he is just grabbing a quick bite, not even taking a full lunch hour. So I do not buy for a minute that William would then proceed to expect his son to take the afternoon off as if he has no responsibilities and is not expected back at work. 

I like Toby too, and would love more scenes of him with Kevin. They were hilarious together. And I knew as soon as Toby asked Kevin who the love of his life was that it would not be either Olivia or Sloan as he didn't date either long enough for them to gain that status. And I am not putting a lot of stock in the whole "Kevin married his sister's best friend" stuff. I have erased the show already, but when Kate said Sophie was her best friend before the party, didn't Jack ask about another girl who he thought was her best friend? Some girls at that age have a different 'best friend' every month so I somehow doubt from that conversation that Sophie would necessarily be best friends even several weeks later, let alone years. 

And yes, I thought the horse guy was creepy and should be reported too! Since when is it OK to hit on a client/patient at your workplace? Because Kate is overweight she is supposed to be flattered? Uh, nope. 

[Court]

Horse dude was sexually harassing her as far as I'm concerned. It was gross.

[chocolatine]

Great episode after last week's dud!

The Madonna costumes really bugged me though. The birthday parties were in 1990; at that time Madonna was in the middle of her men's suits with cone bras phase. The outfits that the girls wore were early-mid 80s Madonna. Despite that, Jack vogueing with Kate was my favorite part of the episode.

William thinking an iPod is an iPad was adorable, as was Beth "feeling" William when he came downstairs with a renewed zest for life. I will disagree with most of you guys though and say that it was wrong of him to show up at Randall's workplace and make him take the afternoon off. He should have waited until the weekend. It's never just "one account" in that kind of cut-throat environment. Letting family issues affect his work will be seen as a weakness, his boss will remember it for years to come, and it will affect his chances to get other accounts, performance reviews, bonuses, promotion prospects, etc. It's cruel and toxic, but it's reality. William probably doesn't understand the implications though, since he's never worked in that kind of environment, so I give him a pass.

The mean note at the pool was signed "Sofie", but Kevin's birthday card was signed "Sophie". Maybe those were two different girls? Either way, Sophie definitely had her sights set on Kevin since she brought a card for him even though she was technically going to Kate's party. Did anyone notice that present-day Sophie was wearing scrubs? I wonder if the marriage failed because of incompatible career aspirations.

Kate can't be the first camp visitor horse guy has made unwelcome advances towards. I can't believe he still has a job there.

[MsJamieDornan]

2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I think this will be a UO, but I thought William was a jerk.  You show up unexpectedly to your son's work, he tells you he needs to work through lunch, and you emotionally blackmail him into taking the afternoon off?  I haven't seen any indication that Randall needed to learn how to treasure moments with his family so count me unimpressed

I'm going to agree with you but my reaction to it is a bit different. My feeling was, that is not the personality we know William to have. The William we know wouldn't show up unannounced and then ignore all Randall's requests that he needed to get back to work. That William we saw tonight was very different than the usual William.

Edited January 25, 2017 by MsJamieDornan

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

thought horse guy was far more attractive than Toby, and initially seemed more normal.  But that comment at the end?  Yeah, I agree.  I would have reported him.

His first interaction with her was asking of she was on the phone with her boyfriend and when she said brother but said she had a fiance said "will see about that," lcompletely inappropriate. My BF who likes Toby even noted "do the writers think all fat dudes are assholes with no boundaries?"

[MsJamieDornan]

Does Toby have a job ?

[RachelKM]

19 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

His first interaction with her was asking of she was on the phone with her boyfriend and when she said brother but said she had a fiance said "will see about that," lcompletely inappropriate. My BF who likes Toby even noted "do the writers think all fat dudes are assholes with no boundaries?"

For reals.  Do they think this crap is attractive?  Horse guy was a full on creep.

I've been neutral to annoyed with Toby, but mostly because I think his "grand gesture" thing is over done and much of it was pretty officious and only isn't stalkery to the extent that Kate seems to actually be charmed by it (which, in my opinion, diminishes her more than helps him).  But I often enjoy him with other people.  For the most part I enjoyed him with Kevin.  Except, did they actually have to say he "do[es] nice things to make women love [him]."  That is straight out of the nice guy syndrome play book.... which brings us back to the first point...  It doesn't really help much that he said you have to really love her for it to work, since that is still about him and his needs.

3 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

 

That bugged the hell out of me. If you're going to have these kids be Madonna fans, at the very least dress them at least close to how Madonna looked in 1989 or 1990.

Honestly, I kind of wished Kate and the girls had been Paula Abdul fans. This show really doesn't seem to get that the late 80's/early 90's aren't the same as the early/mid-1980's.

This.  At first I thought the writers forgot what year the kids were born in again (see: Second grade for Challenger explosion discussion).  Although, even if it had been 89, they would have been more likely to be emulating the True Blue/Whose That Girl era rather than the Like A Virgin look. 

I agree that Paula Abdul would have been more appropriate for 10 year olds in 1990.  Like a Prayer/Vogue era Madonna were not really grade school friendly looks.

3 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I think this will be a UO, but I thought William was a jerk.  You show up unexpectedly to your son's work, he tells you he needs to work through lunch, and you emotionally blackmail him into taking the afternoon off?  I haven't seen any indication that Randall needed to learn how to treasure moments with his family so count me unimpressed.

I felt the same.  I agree with others that showing up at all was somewhat out of character for William.  But I think being out of character was supposed to be the point.  But his tone deafness to the fact that Randall was stressed was a little annoying too. 

Edited January 25, 2017 by RachelKM

[NutMeg]

The scene of birthday Kate with her dad made me lose it - too close to my relationship with my dad (we were both very social introverts, and while my mom made me feel I was an alien he always made me feel he got it, he got me). My dad passed away 10 years years ago, so while I cried and cried, it wasn't for Kate, Jack, or any fictional character, it was because this crazy show reminded me of this very, very precious bond we had and which has proven very unique. I know it's weird to feel emotionally overwhelmed watching a TV show, I know... 

[WhosThatGirl]

This show. 

Im kind of over Kate's storylines honestly. I realize her big issues are her weight but.. I don't know. I need something more. I also feel like they aren't even trying with love interests for her. Yes horse guy is a million times worse than Toby but I don't like Toby at all and yeah. Can Kate like Kelly Taylor "choose me"? Can that be an option? 

The Kevin has an exwife who was his childhood sweetheart and fair weather friend to Kate twist! Wow.

Im going to place my bets that Jack died when the kids were 15. Remember "15s tough" he said to the windowed women in that one episode. I also think Kevin would take his dad dying when he's 15 as a catalyst for him to live to the fullest and marry up Sophie right out of high school. Just what I'm thinking. Kevin seems to work on impulse more often than his siblings. Randell seems like the planner( in the pilot when he brought William home, Beth was like "the hell? I thought you weren't going to see him", it was pointed out that this was out of character for him). And Kate seems to be the one who overthinks herself out of situations and then finds a reason of somebody else's choices to NOT do what she wants to do. (See also the gastric bypass surgery, I'm not saying she should have done it but she even said in tonight's episode that she was so excited but with Toby's recent heart surgery, she could find a reason to say no easily. I'm not saying she's right or wrong, I just think my point was a little validated).

Edited January 25, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[ElectricBoogaloo]

That Was Us:

[Randomosity]

Man, Kate attracts jerks. (Although, I do admit that Toby is a lot easier to deal with when he's interacting with Kevin. Or probably anyone not Kate.)

Regarding the girls' outfits and Paula Abdul vs different iterations of Madonna? Remember, these kids aren't watching the latest videos on Youtube and seeing the latest photos online. MTV and maybe some teen magazines at best, though I can see parents limiting that for 9-10 year olds. They couldn't see Madonna's looks on the radio or on their cassette tapes. So I don't think it's a huge crime that their looks are dated by a few years. They may well be stuck on how she looked in one poster they got of her when they were 5. Or they had a cassette of an earlier '80s album and knew how she looked from that era. I distinctly recall that during my elementary school years (late 80's-'91) that the generic "Punk Rocker", looking pretty much as the girls were in the episode, was in HEAVY rotation as a Halloween costume. And that drew not only on Madonna's style, but others like Cyndi Lauper; her crazy look was also very much early 80s. So maybe they were overly specific in calling it a 'Madonna' party, but dressing up like that in that year, and at their age? Totally spot on.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I love how much Rebecca and Jack love their kids. It's so sweet to see them talk about how awesome Randall is or to see the looks on their faces when they realize that Kevin's Princess Bride party was all for Sophie. But I guess 10 year old Kevin wasn't kidding when he said that he loved Sophie. I'm just so glad that he didn't run straight back to Olivia because ugh. When Sophie opened the door and all we could see was the back of her head and some blonde hair, I thought has it been long enough for Olivia's hair to grow that much? I was relieved when the camera angle switched and it was Anyone But Olivia.

I love that even at 10 years old, Randall understood that it's better to have three awesome real friends than a bunch of "friends" who would ditch you for, say, your twin's pirate party. And I love that he knew the other kids at school weren't his friends but he was okay with it and he still loved school. Such a sweet and wise little kid.

I don't know if Kate and Jack are brave or stupid for having all three birthday parties at once. I know it seems more efficient but it also seems like the best way to create complete chaos. I would have spread them out so that one was Saturday morning, one was Saturday afternoon, and one was on Sunday. If they had suggested that, how would Kevin have contrived a way to get Sophie to his party?

Watching footage of the earlier birthday parties, I felt for Rebecca who was trying to make it a great day for three kids plus Jack. That's a lot of pressure!

As hokey as it may seem that Kate had a breakthrough in that drumming class, a friend of mine teaches a movement class and he said it's really common for people to burst out crying for seemingly no reason. I saw it happen with a friend of mine who just started sobbing in the middle of class and even as she was crying hysterically, she said, "I don't even know what I'm crying about!"

Normally I LOATHE when people just show up at other people's places of work on tv shows, but I thought that even though it was out of character for William to do so, it made sense given what we saw of him earlier. He was super peppy and happy at breakfast and said he had never felt better. Beth told Randall it was an energy boost from not doing chemo anymore (which is exhausting) so it totally made sense to me that William was so exuberant that he thought it would be a great idea to drop by Randall's office, see where he works, and go to lunch with him.

Although I loved seeing Randall teach William how to drive, I was annoyed with him for most of the episode. Your dad is an adult. Yes, an adult who is dying, but an adult. If you had just told him, "I have a huge presentation due tomorrow, so can we go shopping and have lunch tomorrow?" I am 100% sure that William would have gladly waited a whole day to spend time with him. Instead, Randall got all grumpy while William was trying on glasses. And we can't put this all on William dragging him away from work because Randall was already being really snappy with the new guy (even before he found out that they were in competition with each other).

For the record, I don't blame William for being so picky about finding a place that had the right syrup. I mean, let's be honest. He's going to die. This might be the last egg cream ever, so why settle for one that isn't exactly what he wants?

I like Ferg on Longmire, but I do not like how aggressive his character is being with Kate. He is being way too pushy. I'm all for confidence but saying, "This is going to happen," to a woman who already told you she's engaged and just came to say thank you for pushing her? He was creepy verging on menacing.

Toby was helpful in getting Kevin to realize he still loves Sophie, but other than that he was so annoying. This is a guy who said he does nice things and romantic grand gestures to get girls to like him, thus proving that he is a textbook Nice Guy. Ugh. But then the turned around and told Kevin that a romantic grand gesture is only effective if used on the love of your life. If Toby has been doing this grand gestures for two decades, how many loves of his life has he had? Hee, but I had to laugh when he said if Julia Roberts wasn't the love of Hugh Grant's life in Notting Hill, he was just annoying her at a press conference.

Nitpick #1: none of the kids I knew had theme parties in 1990. Things were not like now. A theme party in the 80s meant your mom bought the matching paper plates and napkins with a cartoon character for the cake and ice cream, and if you were lucky you got an ice cream cake from Baskin Robbins with the little plastic characters on top. So having a Madonna themed party and a Princess Bride themed party? That definitely didn't happen with anyone I knew. I mean, I applaud Kate and Kevin for having awesome taste because I loved Madonna and the Princess Bride (I still love both of them!), but no. And party favors back then were a little plastic bag with candy and maybe a plastic ring. No one I knew would have bedazzled gloves to give to everyone.

Nitpick #2: Madonna in 1990 was no longer wearing those floppy bows in her hair, mesh shirts, or fingerless gloves. Vogue was the right reference for that timeframe, but the costumes the girls were wearing definitely were not.  I get not wanting to have ten year old girls running around in gold lamé cone bras, but still.

According to IMDB, the kids' ages at the funeral is:
 

Spoiler

15 (the cast list for this episode lists four sets of actors for the Big Three: the main cast members, 5 year old Kate (from the video footage), 9/10 year old Kate/Kevin/Randall, and 15 year old Kate/Kevin/Randall. The 15 year old actors are the same ones from S1.E8 (The Best Washing Machine in the Whole World).

[talktoomuch]

Didn't look at the spoiler above but I'm pretty sure it was the 15 yo Big Three in the funeral scene. Teen Randall and Teen Kate were pretty recognizable. 

I thought the point of Dickish Horse Guy is to show Kate that she doesn't have to rush into things with Toby because he's not the only man who will be attracted to her.

Loved the Randall/William day. The man is dying. Fairly or unfairly he wants to spend these last moments with the son he is just now getting to know. Randall didn't have to agree, but he did, so he ultimately values these last moments, too.

[ShadowFacts]

54 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Nitpick #1: none of the kids I knew had theme parties in 1990. Things were not like now.

I agree, at least in my locality, theme parties were not done much beyond the latest favorite popular cartoon or movie character on the cake or decor. 

 

42 minutes ago, talktoomuch said:

I thought the point of Dickish Horse Guy is to show Kate that she doesn't have to rush into things with Toby because he's not the only man who will be attracted to her.

I am thinking another possibility is that she will in some sense have her head turned by this ass, and realize she is not ready to commit to Toby or anyone.

Though I really enjoyed this episode, thought it was a little too heavy on the massive birthday party.  I realize I enjoy present day scenes more.

My nitpick:  with the surgeon saying to Kate they could schedule the surgery in February, it still must be January.  January in New York/New Jersey can have mild, snowless spells, but the trees cannot be in full leaf.  I hate when shows ignore that, shoot in California but pretend they are in a different climate.  I never stop noticing it. 

[MyAimIsTrue]

8 hours ago, Artsda said:

Jack & Rebecca were troopers to take on 3 different parties with all those kids all alone with no extra backup.

I was thinking the same thing.  My sister and I have the same birthday (we're not twins, I'm four years older) and as kids we were not allowed to have our birthday parties on the same day because it would have been too much.

[Crs97]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

If you had just told him, "I have a huge presentation due tomorrow, so can we go shopping and have lunch tomorrow?" I am 100% sure that William would have gladly waited a whole day to spend time with him

I have to disagree on this.  When William asked about lunch and Randall said he needed to work through it, William pushed back with the "who knows how many good days I have left" comment specifically designed to manipulate Randall into changing his mind.  Then he hears Randall tell someone they are grabbing a quick sandwich, and he decides to drag out the afternoon and ask for a driving lesson.  There is no way William was going to be kept from making Randall do what William wanted, and he knows Randall well enough now to know what buttons to push.  I wish Randall had stood up to him, but my annoyance is with William on that episode.

[Tiger]

I loved Beth taking a "hot minute for some yogurt", but can they please give her more than two lines per episode, or even better an actual storyline?!?  

Jack's ass looked damn good in those jeans.

I really likes FatCampHorseTrainerGuy.  I dont think he came across as creepy or pushy.  I think he had a certain swagger/confidence that the writers think Toby does but definitely does not.  I also saw more chemistry between Chrissy and that actor then I've ever seen between Chrissy & Chris.  

Speaking of Toby, he was extremely obnoxious with Kevin.  When he was blatering on about Hugh Grant, I was hoping a huge gust of wind would blow him off that balcony. 

Even if Kevin's Sophie is the same girl who wrote the piggie note to Kate, I dont think it's fair to judge someone by something they did when they were in elementary school.  Actually, if she had tortured a dog, I would condemn her; but all she did was write a mean note.  

Lastly, I loved Kate's primal scream as she remembered Jack's funeral.   I now feel validated for all the primal screams I've let out the past few years.

[PRgal]

9 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

 

Honestly, I kind of wished Kate and the girls had been Paula Abdul fans. This show really doesn't seem to get that the late 80's/early 90's aren't the same as the early/mid-1980's.

I suppose the writers were probably too young to remember this!  It wouldn't surprise me if many of the writers are in their 30s and too young to remember if they did not have older siblings.  A 1990 Madonna would have had a high ponytail and red, red lips.

[Haleth]

Kevin and Sophie were a surprise.  Did anyone else think she'd tell him she had remarried and had a bunch of kids?  Maybe he had kept up with her life and knew she was single.  I hope we get to see Kevin squirm his way back into her life.  (I'm not going to hold her actions as a 10yo against her.  Kids rarely understand empathy.)

Little Kevin was adorable with his shrugging off the party business.  That is a kid who understands that spending the day with his father is more important than a big account.  (Although he probably went back and worked all night to finish, then kicked ass with his presentation.)  Sterling Brown is such an exceptional actor, you could see on his face the moment he thought, screw the account.

I'm usually bored by Kate's one note story, but she got to me when she screamed.  All that pent up loneliness, shame, grief.  It's a nice switch to have her getting so much male attention, even if one (both? ymmv) are jerks.  (While on the subject, I wish Toby would shave off that very distracting curlycue on his forehead.)

The funeral is going to kill me.  If they have Jack's and William's deaths in the same episode (finale?) I will be inconsolable.  (FTR, even if they use the 15yo actors for the Big 3 at the funeral, it doesn't mean they can't be aged up to (say) 18 for the episode.  We still don't know when Jack will die other than it was when the kids were still pretty young.)

6 hours ago, birkenstock said:

Also, what caused her to drift apart from her former bff Grace?

Did Kate dump Grace for Sophie?  Even a sweet girl like Kate can be mean.  About the Madonna dress, the early costumes are what little girls would glom onto.  The super feminine tutus and bows are more fun for a 10yo than the 1990s sleek suits and cone bras.  Out of date?  Yeah, but pretty!

5 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

That William we saw tonight was very different than the usual William.

That's why Beth had the line about him having an energy burst from being off the meds.  William was definitely pushy, but he doesn't know if there will be a tomorrow for him.  Randall did the right thing and will sleep better for it.  (And Beth would approve.)

Edited January 25, 2017 by Haleth

[PRgal]

44 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I agree, at least in my locality, theme parties were not done much beyond the latest favorite popular cartoon or movie character on the cake or decor. 

 

I am thinking another possibility is that she will in some sense have her head turned by this ass, and realize she is not ready to commit to Toby or anyone.

Though I really enjoyed this episode, thought it was a little too heavy on the massive birthday party.  I realize I enjoy present day scenes more.

My nitpick:  with the surgeon saying to Kate they could schedule the surgery in February, it still must be January.  January in New York/New Jersey can have mild, snowless spells, but the trees cannot be in full leaf.  I hate when shows ignore that, shoot in California but pretend they are in a different climate.  I never stop noticing it. 

Or you had parties at, say, a bowling alley or something.  I had my 11th at Chuck E. Cheese just for kicks.  Because it would be the last chance for me to do something "kid-ish" before it gets TOOOOOOOO embarrassing.  :P 

 

1 hour ago, Randomosity said:

Man, Kate attracts jerks. (Although, I do admit that Toby is a lot easier to deal with when he's interacting with Kevin. Or probably anyone not Kate.)

Regarding the girls' outfits and Paula Abdul vs different iterations of Madonna? Remember, these kids aren't watching the latest videos on Youtube and seeing the latest photos online. MTV and maybe some teen magazines at best, though I can see parents limiting that for 9-10 year olds. They couldn't see Madonna's looks on the radio or on their cassette tapes. So I don't think it's a huge crime that their looks are dated by a few years. They may well be stuck on how she looked in one poster they got of her when they were 5. Or they had a cassette of an earlier '80s album and knew how she looked from that era. I distinctly recall that during my elementary school years (late 80's-'91) that the generic "Punk Rocker", looking pretty much as the girls were in the episode, was in HEAVY rotation as a Halloween costume. And that drew not only on Madonna's style, but others like Cyndi Lauper; her crazy look was also very much early 80s. So maybe they were overly specific in calling it a 'Madonna' party, but dressing up like that in that year, and at their age? Totally spot on.

But kids have older siblings who may have access to MTV, magazines, etc...Someone would have brought them to school. 

[luna1122]

Yeah, apparently fat guys are all horny, pushy, gross douchebags in "this is us"-land. Tho I liked Toby far more last nite, interacting with Kevin. They were kind of hilarious. (But "Notting Hill" sucks, no matter how charming and floppily adorable Hugh Grant is. Julia Roberts' character is an asshole.)  If Kate actually falls for this guy, I'm gonna want to smack her. I get, after Jack, that she would be attracted to guys who make big gestures and are big personalities. But big personality does not have to mean creepy, sexually harassing freak with no boundaries.

So Kevin had a wife and a divorce at 24, to his childhood sweetheart. That WAS a twist. I love Alexandra Breckenridge and think she can add depth and interest to the role, so I'm looking forward to seeing how this all pans out. If she WAS one of the mean girls who dissed Kate, I hope it's eventually addressed.

The idea of all those kids in one house is my like my version of a circle of hell.

I do not care if the Madonna outfits were less than current for the day. The looks they were wearing were iconic Madonna, if not necessarily timely.  And a bunch of ten year olds in cone bras would not be something I need to see, or hopefully no parent would allow.

In those shades, William looked dead on like a less-grey Sonny Rollins.

Precious little Randall, already knowing the value of good, true friends over a crowd.

[taragel]

5 hours ago, biakbiak said:

His first interaction with her was asking of she was on the phone with her boyfriend and when she said brother but said she had a fiance said "will see about that," lcompletely inappropriate. My BF who likes Toby even noted "do the writers think all fat dudes are assholes with no boundaries?"

Seriously, it's really curious to me if the writers think these guys are charming. I think they definitely DO perceive Toby that way with his "king of romantic gestures" bullshit, but now... two out of two of Kate's suitors are incredibly aggressive. Is it a fat bias thing? Also the message that Kate only attracts fat dudes is NAGL. Then again---she's only ever around fat people and her family. So maybe if they gave her a real job or something to do besides dwell on being fat... sigh. 

And Kate would have been jumping through a lot of hoops to get her gastric bypass covered by insurance at the point where they're to scheduling. They showed none of that journey which could have been far far more interesting than all this ridiculous love life stuff. 

Also....what was the last thing that Kevin recited to Sophie about her being like his arm? Why did he spell out all the punctuation? That made no sense to me. He is so incredibly awkward for a dude who looks like that. Lol.

[GodsBeloved]

Just when I was ready to kick Kevin to the curb I find out he's been in love with his sister's best friend since he was 10 ... dayum show!

[qtpye]

10 hours ago, ShortyMac said:

What I took from that was that when Jack died, Kate lost someone who accepted her and and loved her no matter what, always cheering her on. She was clearly a daddy's girl. From what we've seen, Rebecca made Kate's weight an issue, while Jack didn't.  

***

I really enjoyed this episode.

When Little Randall was talking, I could totally see Adult Randall in him.

Very nice scenes with Randall and William.

Forever singing Beth's praises. She's my favorite.

I liked the twist of Kevin visiting his ex-wife. I look forward to seeing where that goes.

I loved the scenes from the kids' parties. 

Not a fan of Douchey Horse Guy.

I agree about the horse guy (yuck).  It better not be him acting like a jerk and Kate being fascinated by his "charm".

I am sick of Jack being so damn perfect.  Yes, Jack loved Kate for who she is, as most fathers do.  However, young Kate starting a path to morbid obesity is not okay.  Her weight should be an issue, however Rebecca is not handling it well either.

What I do not understand is that I control what my children eat (they are 4 and 7).  They have fruits for snacks and once in a while get a sweet treat.  They already understand the difference between sometime food and all the time food.  I want them to have a healthy relationship with food and their bodies.  I want them to know it does not matter what they look like as long a they are healthy.  They do not get bad food, unless I give it to them.

My question is how is little Kate so much larger then her two brothers, who are probably being fed the exact same thing (the occasional grape fruit aside)?  Is it a medical issue?  Is her metabolism that much slower?  By the way, I hated the scene in that episode where Jack said yuck and pushed her grape fruit aside and poured her a bowl of sugar cereal.  If all fruits and veggies are yuck, your kids will never eat them.

My guess is that Kate is being used for Kevin's purposes.  I have a feeling that Kevin wanted the separate parties, because he did not want to share the spot light and Kate goes along with whatever Kevin wants ( I bet this is a pattern for their life).  I also think that most of the girls at Kate's party were there more for Kevin then Kate.  They all either had a crush on him or just thought he was cool.  My heart broke for little Kate when she got that note at the pool with a picture of  pig...and yes Sophie was one of the names, but there might be more to that story...maybe another mean girl signed her name without her knowing?

It's odd, because, even though all the children are cute, I really do not find little Kevin to be more charming or attractive then his brother and sister.

I also like how the writer's understand that kids do not let their parents know about everything happening in their lives, no matter how awesome their parents are.

Rebecca and Jack had no clue what was going on with Randall and they probably will never know about the ugly note Kate received at the pool.

By the way, I hate to ask this...why do Randall's classmates not like him?  Is it just as simple as racism?  He really is an amazing little guy.

I also hate the trope that Randall is too work oriented and should be having a good time when William pops into his office for a day out.

First, there is no indication that Randall puts his work in front of people he loves.  He was at his daughter's soccer game and always goes out of his way to help family and friends.

Second, as charming as the actor is, William is the one who abandoned Randall for a life of drug addiction.  Randall owes him nothing.

Firms like the one where Randall works are very competitive.  If Randall loses his job, the loss of income will affect his family harshly, even though his wife also works.  It's like William is manic pixie dream biological father.

[Mldh598]

More twists, as usual. For some reason I thought it was Olivia when she first opened the door, and I was not happy. Did not see the ex wife coming!

In a past episode, Kate refers to watching the 2006 Superbowl with her Dad. If they were 10 in 1989 (as we saw tonight), and at the funeral they looked to be maybe late teens, that may not make sense. Or maybe it will later on somehow. LOL

I am NOT looking forward to the Kate-Toby-Horse Guy triangle. I'm not feeling that at all - too soon for this to happen in their relationship. 

This is my favorite hour of the week - this show is wonderful! I'm not sure how the writers keep it all together. Talk about a super complex storyline!

[Crs97]

39 minutes ago, taragel said:

Also....what was the last thing that Kevin recited to Sophie about her being like his arm? Why did he spell out all the punctuation? That made no sense to me.

He told her he had three sentences.  He had already blown through two when he realized he had more to say so he kept throwing in punctuation so his last thought would fit as the last sentence.

Quote

they probably will never know about the ugly note Kate received at the pool.

I thought Rebecca found it and showed it to Jack.  Jack wanted to create a scene, but Rebecca said that would make things worse and he ended up giving her his magic shirt instead.

[luna1122]

4 minutes ago, qtpye said:

What I do not understand is that I control what my children eat (they are 4 and 7).  They have fruits for snacks and once in a while get a sweet treat.  They already understand the difference between sometime food and all the time food.  I want them to have a healthy relationship with food and their bodies.  I want them to know it does not matter what they look like as long a they are healthy.  They do not get bad food, unless I give it to them.

But you can't control what they might eat at school or someone else's house. Kate has access to food there that they may not give her at home. And an allowance, probably, to buy junk they may not know about. I'd imagine that there is some metabolic issue too, with her.

4 minutes ago, qtpye said:

By the way, I hate to ask this...why do Randall's classmates not like him?  Is it just as simple as racism?  He really is an amazing little guy.

I don't think it's necessarily that they don't like him. He just said they aren't his friends. He's a little introvert/nerd, who goes his own way and doesn't really care if everyone likes him. Lots of kids are like that, and it's not a matter of others not LIKING them. They're just more loners or prefer to only get close to a few. I always had several very close friends (who are still, by and large, my friends today) but not sure I would have scored a bunch of kids at my birthday party either. (I grew up a JW, no birthday parties). And sure, there is probably, sadly, some racism happening too.

I do think grown up Kevin is very charismatic, but child Kevin is no cuter or more charming than any of the others. Less, even.

[qtpye]

10 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Quote

they probably will never know about the ugly note Kate received at the pool.

I thought Rebecca found it and showed it to Jack.  Jack wanted to create a scene, but Rebecca said that would make things worse and he ended up giving her his magic shirt instead.

You are probably right, I think I missed that episode.  However, it still would illustrate that they found the not, not that little Kate told them.

Edited January 25, 2017 by qtpye

[Neurochick]

9 hours ago, Spencer Hastings said:

RE:  Kevin and Sophie; these hoes ain't loyal.  If she is indeed the little rat face monster that wrote that note at the pool, I'm done with him.  I need to rewatch but I THINK rat face spelled her name with as Sofie, while Sophie the user spelled her name with a PH. I don't even like Kate but that made me more angry than the funeral. 

I don't get this.  Sophie was ten years old when she wrote that mean note to Kate.  Most of us aren't the same today as we were at ten, at least I hope not.  I've heard stories of people who are best friends today, who hated each other in elementary school.  Many people do mature, grow up and realize they were assholes when they were younger, some don't but I don't see them in the majority.

Now if Sophie was twenty when she wrote that note, I'd think differently. 

Quote

Second, as charming as the actor is, William is the one who abandoned Randall for a life of drug addiction.  Randall owes him nothing.

True, but it was Randall who sought William out, not the other way around.  In the beginning of the episode, Beth told Randall that the reason William was acting differently was because he was off chemo.  She told him her father acted the same way, almost like he was high, so I got why William was acting differently.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Neurochick

[GodsBeloved]

10 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

The Sloane/Kevin brigade must be pissed.

Nah not me. I was happy Sloane cut Kevin off at the small talk. Good for her that she isn't going to be second choice even for "hot" Kevin. 

And I am glad Kevin took to heart what Toby said and he's willing to go back to his first choice and try to make it work again. Adult Kevin grew up a bit and I loved it. 

I continue to love kid Randall. I loved that he wasn't phased at the number of kids at his party. Loved that he knows that it isn't the quantity of "friends" you have but the quality of the ones you have.

 I am not even gonna talk about Jack's ... nope not gonna talk abut it.

[qtpye]

4 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

I don't think it's necessarily that they don't like him. He just said they aren't his friends. He's a little introvert/nerd, who goes his own way and doesn't really care if everyone likes him. Lots of kids are like that, and it's not a matter of others not LIKING them. They're just more loners or prefer to only get close to a few. I always had several very close friends (who are still, by and large, my friends today) but not sure I would have scored a bunch of kids at my birthday party either. (I grew up a JW, no birthday parties). And sure, there is probably, sadly, some racism happening too.

I appreciate your thoughtful answer and it does make sense.  I am an introvert as well and I get sick of television portraying as sad pathetic loners.  Yes, we do like to be alone and shun being the center of attention, but we often have great friends, just not a lot of them.  Besides, Rory Gilmore, they usually are not celebrated on television.

It is awesome that little Randall grew up to have such a great life.

[GodsBeloved]

23 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

Well I'm glad Jessie made it out of the Alexandria Safe Zone.

Omgosh that was Jessie! eek! I hope Sophie is a nice lady so I won't transfer my hate of the Jessie storyline to Sophie.

23 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I think this will be a UO, but I thought William was a jerk.  You show up unexpectedly to your son's work, he tells you he needs to work through lunch, and you emotionally blackmail him into taking the afternoon off?  I haven't seen any indication that Randall needed to learn how to treasure moments with his family so count me unimpressed.

LOL I kept thinking I hope William crashes the car. I'm so wrong for that I know!

[RedDelicious]

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Kate can't be the first camp visitor horse guy has made unwelcome advances towards. I can't believe he still has a job there.

Seriously!!  Does he do that to every pretty girl that comes to camp?  UGH!! 

[GodsBeloved]

7 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I'm going to agree with you but my reaction to it is a bit different. My feeling was, that is not the personality we know William to have. The William we know wouldn't show up unannounced and then ignore all Randall's requests that he needed to get back to work. That William we saw tonight was very different than the usual William.

You know Beth did talk about William being different because his energy isn't being zapped from chemo. I wonder if this is closer to who William really is vs the more "meek"/chemo'ed one we have seen.

Edited January 25, 2017 by GodsBeloved

[mtlchick]

 

Quote

The Madonna costumes really bugged me though. The birthday parties were in 1990; at that time Madonna was in the middle of her men's suits with cone bras phase. The outfits that the girls wore were early-mid 80s Madonna.

Quote

lthough, even if it had been 89, they would have been more likely to be emulating the True Blue/Whose That Girl era rather than the Like A Virgin look.  

I'll fanwalk that it was easier (and more wardrobe budget friendly) to dress up the girls in lace gloves, tank tops, tulle skirts and tons of necklaces as opposed to see through bras, mens suits and monocles.  Hell, last time I dressed up for an 80s party, I dressed up similar to that and that was 5 years ago when I was 34!

Quote

I know it's weird to feel emotionally overwhelmed watching a TV show, I know...  

This show got me weepy over a washing machine so you're not alone.  (hugs.)

 

Quote

You are probably right, I think I missed that episode.

Watch it if you can, I think it was my favourite episode thus far.  Really showed what each kid's major insecurity was and the parents trying to juggle them.

 

 

Quote

My feeling was, that is not the personality we know William to have. The William we know wouldn't show up unannounced and then ignore all Randall's requests that he needed to get back to work. That William we saw tonight was very different than the usual William.

That's where I am on that as well to an extent.  From the time we've seen William and Randall, William has been physically beaten down by the chemo and drugs and as Beth said, he's a bit more upbeat.  I guess William wanted  Randall to be spontaneous, not be so rigid and show what kind of man he (William) is when he's a good mood and not thinking about the cancer.  On the flip side, Randall is still at work.  It couldn't have waited until Saturday?

[memememe76]

28 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I don't get this.  Sophie was ten years old when she wrote that mean note to Kate.  Most of us aren't the same today as we were at ten, at least I hope not.  I've heard stories of people who are best friends today, who hated each other in elementary school.  Many people do mature, grow up and realize they were assholes when they were younger, some don't but I don't see them in the majority.

Now if Sophie was twenty when she wrote that note, I'd think differently. 

But I as a viewer, all I know about Sophie was that she was a Mean Girl to Kate. Now,  Kevin treated Kate terribly too but we have seen Kevin treat her well in other episodes. I am willing to give Sophie a chance, but for me, it will be how she treats Kate in future episodes, not how she interacts with Kevin. 

As for Randall and his lack of popularity, I think his scene with Sanjay was telling. He was passed but he could have hid it better. Kevin seems to be on all the time, Kate has that same capacity in certain situations like at work. Randall, I haven't seen it. 

Edited January 25, 2017 by memememe76

[Tikichick]

Rebecca's gushing about Randall being such a great kid and being so anxious about Randall's lack of birthday guests while not really having a clue or seemingly caring about Kate's experience made me so uncomfortable.  It's clear there is a barricade in the Rebecca/Kate relationship, possibly because Rebecca's relationship with her mother is so toxic.  I'm also giving Rebecca's relationship with Randall an even deeper glance.  I've wondered if it's possible she's so determined to be a great parent to him because he's figuratively filling the place of the child she never had the chance to parent, or if she's terrified and guilty about her initial inability to bond with Randall.  Lots of deep story potential with her relationships with both of these children in particular.

On 1/25/2017 at 8:52 AM, mtlchick said:

That's where I am on that as well to an extent.  From the time we've seen William and Randall, William has been physically beaten down by the chemo and drugs and as Beth said, he's a bit more upbeat.  I guess William wanted  Randall to be spontaneous, not be so rigid and show what kind of man he (William) is when he's a good mood and not thinking about the cancer.  On the flip side, Randall is still at work.  It couldn't have waited until Saturday?

I took it that William was absolutely delighted to wake up with energy and feeling good and he doesn't trust it's ever going to happen again.  He feels great, he finally knows his son and can spend time with him and it's a gorgeous day.  I think he feels the universe is nudging him to take his one shot so he will have no regrets tomorrow. 

[Lady Calypso]

Oh wow, Kate, you need to find better love interests. I'm not sure whether they brought Horse Trainer Guy to make Toby look better or not, but Toby certainly looks a bit better compared to him. "I have a fiance." "We'll see." We'll see? Nope. That line solidified my solid dislike of the guy, and solid dislike of the storyline, especially since it's clear where they're heading with it. Typical TV trope. On the plus side, now I hate someone more than Olivia, and I didn't think that would ever happen.

The flashbacks were great, for the most part. I'll focus on the birthday parties. I love that Kevin's a fan of Princess Bride. I loved the Kate/Jack scenes a lot. While Randall/Rebecca get great moments, Jack/Kate get equally great scenes. Now, can we get some one on one moments with Kevin and his parents? And more than just one in episode four? 

I actually enjoyed the Kevin/Toby scenes. I always thought that Toby had potential underneath the sex and dirty jokes. He actually gave decent advice, and it led to another surprising twist of Kevin and Sophie. I did laugh at his use of punctuation to extend his three sentences. So, he married in his early twenties, so that's interesting. Yet, it's not totally surprising because I've thought about why he never got married or seemingly had any long term relationships, especially since he's been so adverse to casual sex and meaningless relationships.

I wonder if it's possible that Kevin got married to Sophie young as a result of Jack's death. 

I also was annoyed that William got Randall to blow off an afternoon of work to treasure family moments, as if Randall doesn't treasure family moments. I know William has limited time left, but he also has to be respectful of Randall and his life, as well. 

Damn. That reveal of Jack's death, though. 

[dcubed]

39 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

He told her he had three sentences.  He had already blown through two when he realized he had more to say so he kept throwing in punctuation so his last thought would fit as the last sentence.

I thought Rebecca found it and showed it to Jack.  Jack wanted to create a scene, but Rebecca said that would make things worse and he ended up giving her his magic shirt instead.

Thank you!!!  I didn't get the punctuation either and this makes perfect sense!

Yes, Rebecca found the note (the ink was smeared due to getting wet) and showed it to Jack.  He wanted to say something to the girls and Rebecca stopped him so out came the magic shirt. 

[Neurochick]

3 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Rebecca's gushing about Randall being such a great kid and being so anxious about Randall's lack of birthday guests while not really having a clue or seemingly caring about Kate's experience made me so uncomfortable.  It's clear there is a barricade in the Rebecca/Kate relationship, possibly because Rebecca's relationship with her mother is so toxic.  I'm also giving Rebecca's relationship with Randall an even deeper glance.  I've wondered if it's possible she's so determined to be a great parent to him because he's figuratively filling the place of the child she never had the chance to parent, or if she's terrified and guilty about her initial inability to bond with Randall.  Lots of deep story potential with her relationships with both of these children in particular.

I agree with this.  I also remember how happy Rebecca was when she was able to nurse Randall.  She was so worried about him fitting in, because she knew he was different from other boys in their neighborhood.  Maybe she wasn't able to see that Kate, because of her weight, was different from the other girls in their neighborhood

 

9 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

But I as a viewer, all I know about Sophie was that she was a Mean Girl to Kate. Now,  Kevin treated Kate terribly too but we have seen Kevin treat her well in other episodes. I am willing to give Sophie a chance, but for me, it will be how she treats Kate in future episodes, not how she interacts with Kevin. 

 True, but I also think that most people change from ten years old, to twenty or thirty.  If they haven't, that's another issue.  Kids can be real cruel to one they perceive as different and hopefully when you grow up and experience life, you see how narrow minded you were as a child. 

[GodsBeloved]

13 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

On the flip side, Randall is still at work.  It couldn't have waited until Saturday?

No because who know how many more good days William has ?

[Tikichick]

The more I think about what we've seen so far of young Kevin with his parents kind of makes him a type of walking illustration of the old adage, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.   As in, Kevin's parents don't seem to ever register that wheel requiring lubrication.  

Interesting to watch two parents who didn't have great parents themselves lovingly parent three children in vastly different ways -- all while looking at the present day "proof in the pudding" so to speak.

[dcubed]

2 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

True, but I also think that most people change from ten years old, to twenty or thirty.  If they haven't, that's another issue.  Kids can be real cruel to one they perceive as different and hopefully when you grow up and experience life, you see how narrow minded you were as a child. 

+100.  I remember going along with two girls that made fun of someone for their weight (which is ironic as I struggle with weight now).  I was nine and they were the popular girls and I wanted to be one.  I am not a jerk now; in fact I'm pretty nice and always reflective of my behavior and how to be a better person.  Nine and 10 year old kids should not be expected to be perfect,  thoughtful, and never hurtful.  Heck, I know very few adults like that.  We're human.  We're flawed.  It's not what we do wrong as much as what we do to make amends and become better people. 

[Lady Calypso]

29 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

But I as a viewer, all I know about Sophie was that she was a Mean Girl to Kate. Now,  Kevin treated Kate terribly too but we have seen Kevin treat her well in other episodes. I am willing to give Sophie a chance, but for me, it will be how she treats Kate in future episodes, not how she interacts with Kevin. 

Except do we? We don't know that this Sophie and note Sofie are one in the same. It hasn't been confirmed. If they are, then we know that Sophie didn't sign her name to that note since we have to assume that she didn't misspell her own name for whatever reason. I mean, it seems highly likely that it's the same Sophie, but it's possible that Sophie was not even part of the note writing and those other two girls just signed her name. We could get a scene of Sophie apologizing to Kate and that's how they become best friends. Who knows? All I know is that there's assumptions about Sophie, and they're not unwarranted, but they are still assumptions at this point. 

Plus, I agree that people do change. Who we are at 9 or 10 is usually not who we are by 20 or 30. 

[qtpye]

I guess Kevin is easy to overlook, because he seems so lucky compared to his siblings.  He has no weight or race issues.  I think his biggest problems is he does not get the type of grades that Randall does.  Also, he grew up to be incredibly handsome and got paid tons of money for the most superficial of reason.  He also has beautiful women throwing themselves at him all the time.

It's sometimes hard to believe we are the same species.

[OtterMommy]

8 hours ago, birkenstock said:

I wonder when the birthday party was in relation to their birthday.  Randall never intended on inviting his whole class (so it would be short notice) while Kevin and Kate's friends knew to expect invitations. I liked that his true friends were the only ones there instead of classmates who would have attended solely out of obligation. I love that Randall had a nerd friend he drew mazes with. 

My guess is that it was near or on their birthday--given that they had the banner to celebrate Jack's birthday as well.  

[VioletNevermind]

10 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I think this will be a UO, but I thought William was a jerk.  You show up unexpectedly to your son's work, he tells you he needs to work through lunch, and you emotionally blackmail him into taking the afternoon off?  I haven't seen any indication that Randall needed to learn how to treasure moments with his family so count me unimpressed.

I thought the exact same thing.  I didn't like how he just sashayed unannounced into Randall's office like he owned the place and totally brushed aside Randall's insistence that he had serious work to do.  Is family more important than work?  In the grand scheme of things, yes, of course, but there are times when family should respect their loved one's deadlines and big, career-making moments.  I also really didn't like it when William sat silently through Randall's statements in the car, then immediately segued into a request to drive his car, etc.  I cannot stand it when people do that.  It's beyond rude.  I supported my best friend all the way from her cancer diagnosis to her last moments in the hospice center four years later, so I'm well aware that the patient has every right to be a little bit self-centered as their life draws to a close, but I just don't think William has enough credit in the proverbial bank to justify all of this.  In fact, this next statement might be better suited to the Unpopular Opinions thread, but I'll just say it: I'm not a fan of William's.  I'm still trying to unpack why, exactly, I feel like that.  I know it has something to do with the fact that William has gotten away with an awful lot, mainly due to Randall being such an awesome person.  I am an unapologetic Randall superfan.  I would have attended his party with freaking bells on and demanded (I had a deep dislike of social injustice as a kid; still do) that the rest of the class attend, too.  Randall is the best thing about this show and this family, for that matter.

Edited January 25, 2017 by SuzyLee

[Tikichick]

3 minutes ago, dcubed said:

+100.  I remember going along with two girls that made fun of someone for their weight (which is ironic as I struggle with weight now).  I was nine and they were the popular girls and I wanted to be one.  I am not a jerk now; in fact I'm pretty nice and always reflective of my behavior and how to be a better person.  Nine and 10 year old kids should not be expected to be perfect,  thoughtful, and never hurtful.  Heck, I know very few adults like that.  We're human.  We're flawed.  It's not what we do wrong as much as what we do to make amends and become better people. 

And never underestimate the power of peer pressure.  How easy for a kid to get caught between wanting to be liked, not wanting to make yourself a target or hurting someone else.  I think one of the most fascinating things I'd like to see is how Kate and Sophie got past it, or didn't truly get past it as the case may be.  It also shows why Olivia with Kevin must have thrown up major red flags with Kate.