S08.E07: The Newlyweds vs The Browns

[Granny58]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

(Although, I'm still a bit skeeved out by her "protection" needs.)

Yeah, WTH is that?

[CofCinci]

11 minutes ago, b2H said:

 Anyone know anything about the ratings on this snoozefest?  Are the numbers there to warrant another season?

The ratings are mediocre but actually factor very little for TLC programming this year and next. They lost series to scandals and other issues.  It's the reason why we are seeing 3 hours of the Browns and that terrible soap opera on TLC. The network has nothing in the can ready to air. Luckily, 90 Day Fiancé was a surprise hit and was easy to spin-off.  They planned an entire evening programming around the Duggars right before Josh's scandals became public. Three hours were cut to one.

3 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

Yeah, WTH is that?

She grew up with a mother who feared the toaster. I'm sure every time Christine screamed for protection from a sound or a thud, Kody came running. It was probably the only way she would receive attention from him.  Mykelti has confused the word "protection" for attentiveness. FT seems attentive and interested in Mykelti.

[riverblue22]

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

(oooh, really?  I have been looking for something to binge-watch until baseball season).

 

28 days 'til pitchers and catchers!

This game was like an end of season interview with a host only they used Mariah and Aspyn to ask the questions.  The questions were totally producer driven.  It was quite boring, but it was nice to see them having some fun and enjoying themselves.

[SunnyBeBe]

I LOVED the first hour.  I thought the game was a great idea and perhaps much more effective therapy for the ladies than actual therapy.  I confess that I did not watch the hour on Robyn.  I don'ts detest her, but, I've seen quite a enough, thank you.  lol 

It seemed to me that Kody knew more about the wives, than they knew about him. I do think that he's pretty observant.  I was also a little surprised at some of the comments that Kody made about Christine and Janelle.  With Christine, he said something about how her being a mystery turned him on.  Christine ate that up.  Then he later said something about getting intimate with Janelle. Very odd, considering now Janelle usually is.  WHAT'S UP? These comments were made in the presence of all the wives. I'll have to rewatch to get the exact wording.  If you know, please chime in.

I can't help but want those girls to get some professional hair care. (Except Aspyn.  She looks great.) Their hair no longer suits them, imo.  I don't think that it's done professionally.  More like a helmet than a natural look.  The color is all wrong too. 

Overall, the family seems to be much happier than they used to be, except for Meri, but, that seems to have been a long standing issue, that we were not entirely aware of.  It does seem like everyone else is happier now that Meri and Kody have separated. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[bichonblitz]

1 hour ago, MV713 said:

 

I threw up a little bit picturing Maddie and Caleb "practicing making babies" - her with her awful grey roots and him with that scraggly beard, balding head and beer gut, ugh!

 

Talk about a couple that stops caring and lets their looks go straight to hell once they get married..........

Edited January 16, 2017 by bichonblitz

[Absolom]

Quote

  13 hours ago, Nowhere said:

How do the wives legally change their name when they're not legally married. In order to get a new ss card, don't you have to prove either marriage or divorce? 

Quote

It's really easy to legally change your name.  Some counties even have the forms online for you to print and then file with local courts.  Or you can buy packages online for like $100.

There are at least two ways to change your name one is by marriage/divorce and the other is by court order.  Either one works.  In some states parents can change the name on the birth certificate up until age 18. 

[preciousperfect]

2 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Seriously.  Why does Maddie look so rough at 21?  Aspyn and Mariah are also 21 and look their age.

Yes I'm curious about this as well. I want to give that poor girl a makeover so bad. Her hair is atrocious. :(

Asypen could definitely help her! She is gorgeous IMO.

Edited January 16, 2017 by preciousperfect

[laurakaye]

On the plus side, I do not think we heard the word "catfish" one time during this episode.  Progress!

[SongbirdHollow]

Just checking in here to get my "didn't watch, didn't DVR" badge. ?

[Juliegirlj]

I bet Maddie was already pregnant and not wanting to color her hair in the first trimester?! 

Not many young women Mykelti's age are so overly concerned with being " protected". And if that is her need, then why choose someone like Tony?!?!...........

Maddie and Caleb seem almost haughty about the fact that they are having sex, a lot of sex, and they LIKE it!!! I think we can assume they waited for marriage. Not so sure about Mykelti and Tony ( OMG- I wish I could un-think that)

christine is so utterly, pathetically thirsty for attention from Kody. I wish she would get empowered and play things cool with him. Bet he would be more interested if she played a teeny bit hard to get. 

[CerealKiller813]

The only reason why I LOVED the newlywed game is that it cemented my love for Mykelti/Tony's relationship. I really believe that there is love there and they seem to know each other's wants, needs, hopes etc. most of all, they have humor which i something I hold as a high priority in a relationship. I respect Mykelti's need for 'protectiveness' in her relationship as I do too (sadly for not so great reasons) and I respect her ability to let that be known. 

I chuckled at moments with Janelle and Christine. They can be funny. Lol sometimes 

[Galloway Cave]

14 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

On the plus side, I do not think we heard the word "catfish" one time during this episode.  Progress!

Unfortunately, we heard it once. Meri said that before the catfish situation, she and Kody called each other Lover. Then we got the Lover Montage, which I hope we are never subjected to again. That nickname has always squicked me out. 

I noticed Maddie said they practiced making babies and emphasized it several times, including when she wrote it on the board. I guess they were setting up for the "oops, we accidentally got pregnant" talk they are going to have with their parents. Or they were really actually trying to get pregnant and just didn't want to admit it, especially in light of Janelle's insistence they finish college.

[Meowwww]

I liked this episode too!   I thought it was fun.  Probably the most honest we will ever get to see.  

Sparks between Christine (who looks amazing btw) and Kody.  Huh.  

Tony saying that Kody would be the next to get married was all kinds of great. 

[Roslyn]

3 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Seriously.  Why does Maddie look so rough at 21?  Aspyn and Mariah are also 21 and look their age.

Maddie was the failure to thrive baby, I'm still haunted by that photo of her at 6-8 months looking like an overdressed newborn.  That many months of poor nutrition when the body is developing will most likely have life long affects.  They may not be obvious, but they are there.

[Roslyn]

I understand Mykelti's desire for feeling protected by Tony.  I think Mykelti is a romantic minded little girl.

Since I'm the recipient of a husband (of 26 years) who DIDN'T step up and protect me when I most desperately needed it...I do get that.  However I think Tony is quite immature for the role of "protecting" in a real world way.  He and Mykelti seem to match with each other, they both seem to be at the same maturity level.

However...when I hear them talk about it...over and over.  I keep getting the mental image of the Office, once again.  The "Duel" between Andy & Dwight over Angela when Dwight, pinned with Andy's Prius against the hedge, yells "You can't even protect her!!" and Andy yells back..."Protect her from WHAT!!??  Bears!!??"

[CofCinci]

21 minutes ago, Roslyn said:

Maddie was the failure to thrive baby, I'm still haunted by that photo of her at 6-8 months looking like an overdressed newborn.  That many months of poor nutrition when the body is developing will most likely have life long affects.  They may not be obvious, but they are there.

Was it Failure To Thrive or really just neglect?  Sounded like neglect to me.

[Roslyn]

The episode...

Well, it wasn't as bad to sit through as the crying and melodrama that is for sure.  It's interesting how it does still show that the wives sit there, play the game and Kody has to jump around and show boat.  I think this more relaxed episode is a window on what their gatherings might be like without cameras, all Kody, all the time. He even admitted he is a narcissist.

I thought it was interesting that Robyn was distressed at the thought of having questions!? Either for real, or producer driven...who knows for sure. But no one pressed her for the exact TIME of her first Kody kiss.  I also thought it was interesting that Janelle (at least acted) like she didn't have a real clue or memory of her first Kody kiss...."oh...yea...I remember a car..."

It does go to show that a couple will always know each other better through monogamy.  Duh. Meri and Kody had a couple of years together before the tribe came along and once Janelle landed everything became about "The Family" and the individualness fell to the wayside.

Aspyns hair...no words are needed.

And Garrison.  Wow!  It is very obvious that the mouthy, disrespectful teen really and truly needed guidance, a male role model and above all a disciplined life.  GOOD FOR HIM for joining the military.  It looks like he is blossoming into a more grounded and respectful young man. I had my doubt with him, he seemed to be the ring leader of the Garrison/Paedon/Gabe bully brigade.

1 minute ago, CofCinci said:

Was it Failure To Thrive or really just neglect?  Sounded like neglect to me.

Very true.  We will never know the real truth of it, but it wasn't like there weren't lots of other babies around to compare with and to know well and truly that something wasn't right.

[luckylisp]

5 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Although, I'm still a bit skeeved out by her "protection" needs.

Me too. What the heck is that all about? 

[laurakaye]

1 hour ago, Galloway Cave said:

Unfortunately, we heard it once. Meri said that before the catfish situation, she and Kody called each other Lover. Then we got the Lover Montage, which I hope we are never subjected to again. That nickname has always squicked me out. 

Ah, I didn't hear it because it was at this point that I covered my ears and started singing "lalalalalala I can't hear youuuuu!"

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Morgalisa said:

 Now if Kody gets married,  I would hate watch the hell out of that!

I just put popcorn on my grocery list. I'm in!

[LilWharveyGal]

Lord help me, but I actually found the first hour enjoyable.  It's amazing how much more likable these people are when they're not focusing on their angsty issues ad nauseum.

There are no games for polygamists?  I'm sure Milton Bradley will jump right on that.  Henceforth, any house built on Boardwalk shall have four kitchens.

[Calibabydolly]

Wait a minute....why are Maddie and Caleb still in LV? Don't they live in Montana now? Or, do they just stay around for filming because this is their "income" from doing the reality show? Where do they live/sleep? In her mom Janelles house? Well aunt Meri has a giant house plus wet bar just sitting over there all empty! I suppose whoever has the most sound proof  walls....so they can go about their business.

I am betting Caleb convinced his new bride to go all natural and stop coloring her hair, especially while pregnant. He sure is a simple, no frills kind of man. I was trying to spot a baby bump in the show last night, but I think her top was not tight enough. I hope Maddie doesn't keep all her baby weight on like her mom seemed to do. Janelle could be so much more if she had kept up her healthy living.

[Granny58]

During the TH segment I thought Janelle's hair and makeup were quite lovely.

[Misslindsey]

12 minutes ago, Calibabydolly said:

Wait a minute....why are Maddie and Caleb still in LV? Don't they live in Montana now? Or, do they just stay around for filming because this is their "income" from doing the reality show? Where do they live/sleep? In her mom Janelles house? Well aunt Meri has a giant house plus wet bar just sitting over there all empty! I suppose whoever has the most sound proof  walls....so they can go about their business.

I think they are in Wyoming now. I really have no idea when this was being filmed but I guessed that it was during a school break/summer because Mariah is around. I have no idea though.

[Cherry Cola]

That was a fun episode.  I actually enjoyed the game.  Not the Robyn part later, I ffd that.  

Mariah's hair looks really nice straightened.  Aspyn is a beauty. Mykelti and Tony are cute and I am glad they know each other well. It's refreshing! Christine's does look fabulous, and definitely the best looking wife.  Meri looked better with straight hair, as shown in the clip show. 

[LucyEth]

At the time and now watching the clips, Christine was the big problem for Robyn and Kody.  She was very jealous admittedly.   Meri picked Robyn, Janelle  couldn't care less but Christine was fake, she really didn't want her in the marriage. She should have objected from the start.  I couldn't believe when Christine called Kody to tell him her water broke and he was with Robyn he sort of annoyingly said "I gotta go, she is gonna have this baby".  Wow, I don't remember that scene.  The first hour with the game show was just silly.  Madison does look bad, must be the pregnancy.  Maybe she does not feel well.

[ghoulina]

4 hours ago, Granny58 said:

Yeah, WTH is that?

I mean, don't get me wrong, I like that my husband is strong and prepared and would do anything to protect his family. But she was asked THE most important thing in a relationship. She didn't say "trust" or "communication" or "compatibility"....but "protection". What does she need to protected from????

 

3 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Talk about a couple that stops caring and lets their looks go straight to hell once they get married..........

Maddie may no longer be dying her hair because she's pregnant. I don't think she looks THAT bad. But she has that type/style of hair that doesn't do "effortless" well. Aspyn could do a messy pony and look great. Madison actually needs to put WORK in or it can look awful.

[Sista Snarky]

I guess we "miss" the Bohemian gathering for Maddie & Caleb that was supposed to happen at Robyn's when they got back from their honeymoon. Unless "honeymoon" = a few free nights in a Yurt at Brian Head.

Maybe that didn't happen at all... if they would have to pay for the cookies & trays themselves.

Good on Logan & Michelle for being out there living their own lives &  not hanging around constantly during filming. They met the siblings away from the circus atmosphere.

Logan probably had enough of Kody when he was told to piss off in Hawaii. 

[leighroda]

I'm not going to lie, it's probably nothing, but I'm starting to wonder if something happened when mykelti was young that makes being protected such a big deal... I would say the thought of a significant other being a protector to some degree is important to me, but I'm not sure I would make it my main talking point, and my reason is I had a crappy childhood and actual trauma. I guess everyone is different, and like I said everyone is different but the way they fixate on it does strike me as odd. 

And ewww, "lover" I had an ex that tried to call me that a few times (mostly joking I think, maybe he only said he was joking because I was repulsed by it... maybe I should ask him...lol.) and I told him I couldn't with that nickname... it made me feel like I was on a bad 80's soap opera.

[Granny58]

1 hour ago, Swim mom said:

Now if Kody gets married,  I would hate watch the hell out of that

I absolutely would be glued to my set.

4 minutes ago, leighroda said:

I'm not going to lie, it's probably nothing, but I'm starting to wonder if something happened when mykelti was young that makes being protected such a big deal...

Yeah, I think we're all trying to figure that out...remember if anybody ever said anything in reference to it, or anything that makes sense.  

[Kohola3]

10 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

Yeah, I think we're all trying to figure that out...remember if anybody ever said anything in reference to it, or anything that makes sense.

Well, after the Jesus Loves Me Duggar mess and that many kids in the family, I wouldn't be shocked to hear about some sort of abuse.  I really wouldn't no matter how solid I think the boys are.  Hopefully I am wrong  but that "feel safe" stuff is just too random.

[Granny58]

6 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Well, after the Jesus Loves Me Duggar mess and that many kids in the family, I wouldn't be shocked to hear about some sort of abuse.  I really wouldn't no matter how solid I think the boys are.  Hopefully I am wrong  but that "feel safe" stuff is just too random.

I up-arrowed you, not because I think any of the boys did anything, but only acknowledging that things like that happen.  

[MarkySnark]

Mykelti was raised by Christine, who believes that everyone outside their little religious bubble is "dangerous" or "unsafe." That is what probably brings on Mykelti's need to be protected. She's been told from Day 1 that outsiders want to break up her family and thus always needs to feel protected.

[Sista Snarky]

44 minutes ago, leighroda said:

I'm not going to lie, it's probably nothing, but I'm starting to wonder if something happened when mykelti was young that makes being protected such a big deal... I would say the thought of a significant other being a protector to some degree is important to me, but I'm not sure I would make it my main talking point, and my reason is I had a crappy childhood and actual trauma. I guess everyone is different, and like I said everyone is different but the way they fixate on it does strike me as odd. 

And ewww, "lover" I had an ex that tried to call me that a few times (mostly joking I think, maybe he only said he was joking because I was repulsed by it... maybe I should ask him...lol.) and I told him I couldn't with that nickname... it made me feel like I was on a bad 80's soap opera.

I think Mykelti knew that angle would work quickest on Christine.

Christine has always been fearful of "outsiders" (Mykelti feels like Tony will do no harm) & has always told her daughters...you are a princess some day a prince will come...to love/protect you & slay all the dragons.

Mykelti couldn't use the perfect  "Saint" angle since that title  belongs to Caleb & knew she had an upstream battle to convince her parents that Tony is perfect...when on the outside Tony looks a little shaky & has a sarcastic way about him.

Mykelti is still so much like a child...she just wanted a big old dance party so she could be married & say how much she loves her husband.

She was told that she was not welcome home...probably felt like a child who was thrown away by her family & her impulsive self found a way to establish a "new family" (starting with husband) in record time.

Mykelti is a shrewd operator.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Sista Snarky

[MollyBrown]

Whenever Kody talks about people who like to push his buttons, it always puts me on alert as a reaction. It just sounds menicing to me.  

 

On on the other hand,  I enjoyed the family time.  Minus the ever present Meri drama. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Granny58 said:

During the TH segment I thought Janelle's hair and makeup were quite lovely.

I agree, I think she's got the most beautiful skin and bone structure.  She'd be a knockout at 160.

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah, what happened to the kids are going to college comment. (Caleb and Maddie.)  I mean, babies are great, but, man, she's so young.  Hasn't she watched Teen Moms at all?  It creates a lot of stress in the relationship, ties you down, exhaust you and puts college on the back burner.  I suppose this is her dream.  She grew up around babies. You'd think she has her fill of baby care duties by now.  Why not, enjoy your marriage, get a degree, then have the baby in your mid twenties?  My parents got married and had me very young, but, today, it just seems so short sighted and immature, imo.  

[IvyDancer]

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, what happened to the kids are going to college comment. (Caleb and Maddie.)  I mean, babies are great, but, man, she's so young.  Hasn't she watched Teen Moms at all?  It creates a lot of stress in the relationship, ties you down, exhaust you and puts college on the back burner.  I suppose this is her dream.  She grew up around babies. You'd think she has her fill of baby care duties by now.  Why not, enjoy your marriage, get a degree, then have the baby in your mid twenties?  My parents got married and had me very young, but, today, it just seems so short sighted and immature, imo.  

I hope this isn't going too far off on a tangent, but that family doesn't seem to have much life experience, which is probably how they get away with this kind of behavior. I mean realistically the children would make mistakes and actually have relationships or whatnot in college with multiple people and learn from them as they matured and grew. But there are many issues at play here - the parents likely didn't attend college, and didn't date around so they don't have the benefit of that knowledge to impart on their children. Also, their culture/religion definitely does not encourage that kind of behavior, and in fact promotes a lifestyle of courting once and then get married immediately/have babies, so that's a big part of it too. 

As much as Madison, Mykelti et al preached about changing the narrative, their actual nurturing and environment would lead me to believe otherwise. Look at the splits - the boys all fled the nest essentially, with Logan living with his gf and the other ones enrolled in the military. The older girls except for maybe Aspen are all Stage 5 clingers and have ended up marrying the first guy who batted their eyes back at them. It's sad, really. 

[Annb67]

Wth kind of name is Mykelti btw? It sounds like your hacking up something. 

[Kohola3]

44 minutes ago, Annb67 said:

Wth kind of name is Mykelti btw?

Made up Mormon.  They all do that.

[Meowwww]

9 hours ago, Granny58 said:

Yeah, WTH is that?

It's her dad's key word.  When Kody heard Tony makes her feel Safe and Protected, he was all in. 

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, what happened to the kids are going to college comment. (Caleb and Maddie.)  I mean, babies are great, but, man, she's so young.  Hasn't she watched Teen Moms at all?  It creates a lot of stress in the relationship, ties you down, exhaust you and puts college on the back burner.  I suppose this is her dream.  She grew up around babies. You'd think she has her fill of baby care duties by now.  Why not, enjoy your marriage, get a degree, then have the baby in your mid twenties?  My parents got married and had me very young, but, today, it just seems so short sighted and immature, imo.  

I feel like Maddie and Caleb just moved to be near college.  Now, if they actually enroll is a whole 'nother thing.  

9 hours ago, CofCinci said:

The ratings are mediocre but actually factor very little for TLC programming this year and next. They lost series to scandals and other issues.  It's the reason why we are seeing 3 hours of the Browns and that terrible soap opera on TLC. The network has nothing in the can ready to air. Luckily, 90 Day Fiancé was a surprise hit and was easy to spin-off.  They planned an entire evening programming around the Duggars right before Josh's scandals became public. Three hours were cut to one.

She grew up with a mother who feared the toaster. I'm sure every time Christine screamed for protection from a sound or a thud, Kody came running. It was probably the only way she would receive attention from him.  Mykelti has confused the word "protection" for attentiveness. FT seems attentive and interested in Mykelti.

No judging!   I am afraid of the toaster.  Stays unplugged except when using.  Google it!  

[SunnyBeBe]

It's difficult to say if young people on reality tv are having babies early and frequently due to increasing their appeal on reality television or something else.  (Oh, I'm not referring to Zach and Tori Roloff.)

Edited January 17, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Chris Knight]

An hour of Robyn ? Gag.  I'm still surprised the kids were so willing to accept a 4th wife, knowing their moms already get shortchanged as it is. And Janelle and Kody should not be honored that Robyn "chose us, she could have had her pick of families..." I really doubt that. She is not attractive and appears to have no education or skills, and was broke with 3 mouths to feed.

So Christine didn't kiss Kody until the wedding because she didn't want to kiss a married man. Well Bitch Robyn apparently saw no issue kissing a married man whose mistress was in labor with his whatever 16th kid.

Robyn is such a liar. "I tried to respect the wives' feelings while courting..." No you didn't. He chose your dress and you did the poor little me bit . And you didn't take a pic with Kody alone at your wedding but then you had him drawn in to a pic of your kids, like a psycho. 

Man, she cries a lot. It's exhausting. She's really packing on the lbs too. Funny how she used to brag to the others about how she was so thin because she kept forgetting to eat. She says this to 3 upset and insecure women struggling with their weight and serious jealousy.

Robyn didn't seem worried to me about telling Meri when Solomon was on his way. And look at Robyn now, Legal Wife ! Of course Meri regrets bringing Robyn in to the family. 

[CofCinci]

13 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

It's difficult to say if young people on reality tv are having babies early and frequently due to increasing their appeal on reality television or something else.  (Oh, I'm not referring to Zach and Tori Roloff.)

The national trend is an older first-time mother.  These reality tv stars are having babies for the cash.

[Galloway Cave]

2 hours ago, Annb67 said:

Wth kind of name is Mykelti btw? It sounds like your hacking up something. 

There is an actor named Mykelti Williamson who played Bubba in Forrest Gump. However, he pronounces his name Michael-T, not the way Christine pronounces it. It's possible she saw his name and liked it the way it looked (it fits in with her weird Mormon name spellings). I have never seen any one else with that spelling.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Galloway Cave

[bichonblitz]

8 hours ago, Roslyn said:

Maddie was the failure to thrive baby, I'm still haunted by that photo of her at 6-8 months looking like an overdressed newborn.  That many months of poor nutrition when the body is developing will most likely have life long affects.  They may not be obvious, but they are there.

Not agreeing with that as an excuse for looking like crap. She was a beautiful bride and a very cute little girl. I'm gonna chalk it up to early pregnancy sickness. But then again, she's married to a mountain man now and I get the feeling he likes his woman to be "all natural". Maybe he should convince her to go back to her natural light hair. 

Edited January 17, 2017 by bichonblitz

[Morgalisa]

I think Kodi is having an affair with Christine. I think he loses interest, sexually, in the legal wife. He and Janelle have always been buds. He's on the outs with Meri. He says because catfishing, but Meri says their relationship has not been good for a long time. Robin was the sex wife, but not anymore. So, yeah, Christine is getting it in.

[Sista Snarky]

48 minutes ago, Morgalisa said:

I think Kodi is having an affair with Christine. I think he loses interest, sexually, in the legal wife. He and Janelle have always been buds. He's on the outs with Meri. He says because catfishing, but Meri says their relationship has not been good for a long time. Robin was the sex wife, but not anymore. So, yeah, Christine is getting it in.

I agree! I also think the journey (it wasn't much of the battle Robyn envisioned "winning")  to rise up was what Robyn enjoyed & she has become very bored & disenchanted now that's she's the legal wife. 

[Meowwww]

I have a friend named Wyntyr.  As in winter.  She is Mormon.  

[Kbo]

Did Mykelti actually say the most attractive thing about Tony was his hair?  Granted there's not a lot to choose from there, but that floppy mop of hair that desperately needs a decent cut...just no. 

And I snickered when they talked about how nobody in their right mind would market to polygamists. Tell us again how you came up with the idea for My Sister Wife's Closet?  That wildly successful jewry business that we haven't heard mentioned in a few seasons.  I'm sure we'll see the details in their next bankruptcy filing.