S01.E03: Mistress-New-Mistress

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

After a close call, Dorothy and Lucas learn the Wizard has sent his guards to kill her. In Emerald City, the Wizard seeks advisement from his counsel as he begins to lose control and the witches begin to show their power. Meanwhile, Tip and Jack venture to the City of Ev to find a cure following a life-changing revelation.

 

 

[Primetimer]

The Oz reimagining finds its groove, but does it make any sense?

View the full article

[BindsTheTuna]

Frank Morgan. Heh. I see you, show.

[Morrigan2575]

This was a good episode but, I'm disappointed we didn't get the promised West/Dorothy face to face.

I really liked Dorothy's storyline, I'm massively curious about her background and who she is. Could she be the wizard's daughter? Could she be the Beast Forever?

The scenes with Wizard/West were great, I really love her, she's an interesting character. The Wizard/Nun (I can't remember her name) was great. I loved how they put some humanity into the Wizard and (pardon the pun) pulled the curtain back. For a minute I thought he was.going to push her off the balcony to make sure she didn't tell anyone about his lack.of power.

I really felt for Tip, the scene where she couldn't figure out what bathroom to use and was tragic. I also felt for her during her breakdown at the end. However, I'm not sure how to feel with that final scene.  Mostly I'm in shock, poor Jack.  

[TobinAlbers]

Hopefully that dagger is magical and will somehow play into Jack not being dead/resurrected. Because Tip doesn't need that on her conscience right now and Jack didn't deserve to go splat.

Mistress West is coooooold with that nun. Rubbing in her face her mother worked in a brothel and conceived her there, that the Wizard had done her mom but wasn't her dad. I get she's in pain and lashing out but sheesh!

Shirtless freshly washed Lucas on the beach is a great way to start an episode. 

Edited January 14, 2017 by TobinAlbers

[Senna]

Jack, noooo!  I hope he can be saved somehow.

I like that Dorothy was willing to part with Lucas after the events of last episode (even if they still ended up together because of circumstances).  I was also slightly amused by the contrast of Dorothy wanting Lucas' real self to be someone who "says everything's going to be OK" and later in the episode, Tip getting mad when Jack kept saying "everything's gonna be OK."

I'm finding the witch of the West interesting so far, and I'm curious to see what they do with her character.

[Cthulhudrew]

Could Dorothy's mother have been exiled because she was the one who really controlled the giants and not Frank? Hmm...

I think the Tip storyline has potential, though a) I kind of would have liked to have seen more of Tip as a boy before suddenly being thrust with the reality of him really being a girl (even if it was obvious from the start). I think it would give more gravitas to his current dilemma. I also don't care for the melodrama to be wrought vis a vis shoving Jack to his death. They don't really need to be so heavy handed with these plots, and I think they play out better when they take a slower pace (I liked the scene with the apothecary and Tip, f'rinstance).

Is there to be no Tin Man in this show? :'(

[thuganomics85]

So, Dorothy basically acquired East's powers or something, thanks to those gauntlets?  Wasn't sure what to make of all of that, but it looks like she possess some kind of power, now.  Curious to see where this goes, and the relationship between her and Lucas, which started out frosty, but already seems to be thawing again.

Yikes, the ending of the Tip/Jack storyline was dark.  Especially since they had mainly been keeping it light, with Jack still clearly in "Wow, I can't believe my best friend is now this hot girl!" mode, with all of the awkward glancing and whatnot.  But that was one long fall, and it didn't look.... good for him.  Not sure where this is heading either, but this might actually be the storyline I'm most interested in, surprisingly.

The stuff with the Wizard is getting a bit more interesting now.  At least Vincent D'Onofrio seems to have settled on an accent this time.  Not sure what is going on with Anna yet, but she seems to be getting set-up to being a major player going forward (even if Isabel Lucas is only a guest in the credits.)  West continues to be a good wildcard.

The actor playing East's guard was really good, and I feel like I've seen him somewhere before.

[iMonrey]

I was on the fence about this show after the two-hour premier but this episode had me falling off it a little bit. I was initially impressed they are including some features of the later Oz books but after this episode I'm starting to get the impression the writers were just handed some cliff notes and a grab bag and are throwing names into the story without proper reference. And - the Wizard's real name is Frank Morgan? That's just a little too on the nose. Are we going to find out Lucas' real name is Ray Bolger and Dorothy's real name is Judy Garland?

As someone who was immersed in the Oz stories in my youth I'm having a harder time watching this than someone less familiar with the canon. For instance it was interesting to hear Tip and Jack talk about going to Ev but then when they got there I wondered how the hell they managed to do it without crossing the desert. And whether there's a desert.

I'm still interested enough to keep watching and I'm sure I'll make it through the whole season but at this point I'm not overly enthusiastic about what they're doing with the story. Re-imaginings of The Wizard of Oz as a darker, grittier adult story are sort of a dime a dozen and while this one is taking some interesting turns the concept isn't really fresh anymore. My reaction is leaning towards "eh, another try at this."

[AzureOwl]

I had something really weird happen to me while watching this episode. When Jack got off the table I was just thinking that maybe Tip should really think about covering up that cleavage, and just then the waitress spoke up and said the same thing. 

1 hour ago, TobinAlbers said:

Mistress West is coooooold with that nun. Rubbing in her face her mother worked in a brothel and conceived her there, that the Wizard had done her mom but wasn't her dad. I get she's in pain and lashing out but sheesh!

So far the Mistress of the Western Fields is doing a bang up job as the Vessel of Truth... but not so much in the Solace department.

[LittleIggy]

I'm loving this show. Singh has such an eye for visuals - costumes, locations, etc. Stunning! I totally adore Toto. What a handsome doggie. And, yes, shirtless Lucas was yummy! ;-)

[zxy556575]

I rarely-to-never rewatch episodes but am finding I want to savor this and take in all the small details. The trailing swirls on Dorothy's red mistress dress were beautiful for the second time in the tornado as they were when we saw a similar effect on East.

What was the pill bottle that Eamonn found outside East's castle? Something that fell out of Karen's coveralls?

I seriously want to pack West off to rehab. Also to an orthodontist.

Not that it's infallible, but

Spoiler

Jack is listed in the IMDB credits for 10 episodes.

Edited January 14, 2017 by lordonia

[WendyCR72]

9 minutes ago, lordonia said:

The trailing swirls on Dorothy's red mistress dress were beautiful for the second time in the tornado.

Hmm. Does this red dress replace the ruby slippers?  ;-)

[Shorty186]

So I guess that's it for Glinda? What was the point of being in the first 2 episodes if West was the one who sucked out East's magic? I mean, other than reminding people unfamiliar with Baum's novels (like me) that this is a character they know?

[missysays]

8 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Hmm. Does this red dress replace the ruby slippers?  ;-)

I think the jeweled gauntlets are supposed to be the ruby slippers and will come into play later on in the series too. That red dress was amazing though.

Edited January 14, 2017 by missysays

[missysays]

10 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Could Dorothy's mother have been exiled because she was the one who really controlled the giants and not Frank? Hmm...

I think the Tip storyline has potential, though a) I kind of would have liked to have seen more of Tip as a boy before suddenly being thrust with the reality of him really being a girl (even if it was obvious from the start). I think it would give more gravitas to his current dilemma. I also don't care for the melodrama to be wrought vis a vis shoving Jack to his death. They don't really need to be so heavy handed with these plots, and I think they play out better when they take a slower pace (I liked the scene with the apothecary and Tip, f'rinstance).

Is there to be no Tin Man in this show? :'(

I wonder if that Wizard's guard is the equivalent of the Tin Man and we'll learn more about his backstory as the series goes on. He is part of the main cast group photo and his armor could be their allusion to the Tin Man just as the straw stuck on Lucas when he was on the cross was his Scarecrow nod.

I am also hopeful that we haven't seen the last of Jack. He is also in the same cast group photo so he may be back later on. Contrast this with Mombi (the crazy witch who held Tip captive) who is not included in the group photo. Though I don't think we've seen the last of her either since she came back to life after Lucas "killed" her.

This is all to say i continue to be intrigued by this show and this episode provided enough cliffhangers and questions to keep me going.

[Fireball]

Dorothy

I’m really interested in her backstory. Who was her mother? Why was she exiled? Who is Dorothy’s father?

I also think the writers are doing a good job of being ambiguous regarding if Dorothy is a witch or not.

Last episode we learn:

• Only a witch and kill a witch which could indicate that Dorothy’s a witch but she didn’t actually pull the trigger so that indicates she’s not a witch.
• But Dorothy got the ruby gloves when the witch of the East died indicating Dorothy’s a witch, but the gloves could have just gone to the nearest female indicating Dorothy’s not a witch.

This episode we learn:

• Dorothy can use the gloves and walk on water indicating she’s a witch, but maybe anyone wearing the ruby gloves can walk on water indicating she’s not a witch.
• Dorothy was unable to control the weather indicating she’s not a witch, but maybe she couldn’t control the weather because she hasn’t received any training which means she still could be a witch.

Tip

The show surprised me I did not see Jack’s accidently death coming at all. I really thought the writers would go the whole one of them falls in love with the other, but because Tip use to be a boy it’s awkward route. So is Tip a witch? I mean the shove seemed especially strong. Also didn’t Tip’s “mother” say something about Tip being dangerous? Or am I misremembering?

I wonder where Tip’s story will go; will she meet up again with Dorothy and Lucas? Base on the bar scene, I don’t think her being on her own is a good thing. It doesn’t seem Oz is safe place for a single female.

The council/nuns

Their hats make me giggle! They look like bonnets on steroids.

I don’t really care about the power struggle between the Wizard’s “old” favorite and his “new” favorite (her name's Anna I think) I also don’t understand why Anna would be so loyal to the Wizard? Why not tell Glinda about the Wizards secret? Is it just that she thinks she’ll have more status/power with the Wizard? Are we setting up that Anna is in love with the wizard? Also why would Anna tell the Wizard she figured out his secret? It seemed like a dumb move to me. I thought the Wizard was going to throw her off the balcony for a second there.

The Wizard

I like that we found out some things like why the Wizard really wants the Prison of the Abject open. I thought maybe he wanted it open because his “true love” was in there which would explain why he hated magic. But nope he outlawed magic to hide the fact that he’s a charlatan.

I wonder what he found in the Emerald City that made him not powerless. Did he just come into his powers when he entered the city? (I’m guessing no since he needs the prison opened.)

The Wizard Guards

What was the pill bottle that the guards found? Is it important? I didn’t catch what the bottle said. The main guard is good looking, but to be honest I'm not that interested in their story. I’m guessing the main guard will end up being the Tin Man.

The Witch of the West

I enjoy her always catching the Wizard off guard. However, I will at some point want her to get her act together.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Fireball
Because I don't know what to call the women in funny hats

[AzureOwl]

4 minutes ago, Fireball said:

The Wizard Guards

What was the pill bottle that the guards found? Is it important? I didn’t catch what the bottle said. The main guard is good looking, but to be honest I'm not that interested in their story. I’m guessing the main guard will end up being the Tin Man.

It was a prescription bottle, so it had Dorothy's name on it. So now Eammon will know he is looking for a girl named Dorothy Gale.

[Fireball]

Just now, AzureOwl said:

It was a prescription bottle, so it had Dorothy's name on it. So now Eammon will know he is looking for a girl named Dorothy Gale.

Thanks. I didn't catch that.

[CooperTV]

I'd say I enjoyed the Emerald City storyline more than anything else this time because of those fraught, complicated, strange dynamics and bits of character moments of the Wizard, Mistress West (superb acting from the actress here), Anna and the unhappy councilwomen. CSI: Emerald City with its mystery of three sex workers' forced suicide by the Beast Forever was the most interesting part for me in terms of the overall plot. Oops? Also, the Beast Forever is one sarcastic bastard, what with the impotent men/the Wizard's magic impotence parallels.

I know the show wants me to be invested in Lucas/Dorothy but. Nah. I don't care, show. They're gorgeous people but I still don't care.

Mistress East's castle location was really pretty, and I liked the camera work and the surrealistic images of the world between worlds. Otherwise I was not particularly interested in anything Dorothy wants to know. I'll find soon enough, I guess.

Oh, Jack, no. Tip's realization was sad and I understand her/his devastation but the ending was off-putting. Well, they need to make Jack

Spoiler

into Pumpkinhead (for reasons)

, after all.

[rollacoaster]

Hey, did anyone else see Mistress East's guardian and think, "Strong Belwas!" Just me? Ok, I'll show myself out.  

[Mari]

3 hours ago, Fireball said:

Dorothy

I’m really interested in her backstory. Who was her mother? Why was she exiled? Who is Dorothy’s father?

I also think the writers are doing a good job of being ambiguous regarding if Dorothy is a witch or not.

Last episode we learn:

• Only a witch and kill a witch which could indicate that Dorothy’s a witch but she didn’t actually pull the trigger so that indicates she’s not a witch.
• But Dorothy got the ruby gloves when the witch of the East died indicating Dorothy’s a witch, but the gloves could have just gone to the nearest female indicating Dorothy’s not a witch.

This episode we learn:

• Dorothy can use the gloves and walk on water indicating she’s a witch, but maybe anyone wearing the ruby gloves can walk on water indicating she’s not a witch.
• Dorothy was unable to control the weather indicating she’s not a witch, but maybe she couldn’t control the weather because she hasn’t received any training which means she still could be a witch.

 

I don’t really care about the power struggle between the Wizard’s “old” favorite and his “new” favorite (her name's Anna I think) I also don’t understand why Anna would be so loyal to the Wizard? Why not tell Glinda about the Wizards secret? Is it just that she thinks she’ll have more status/power with the Wizard? Are we setting up that Anna is in love with the wizard? Also why would Anna tell the Wizard she figured out his secret? It seemed like a dumb move to me. I thought the Wizard was going to throw her off the balcony for a second there.

The Witch of the West

I enjoy her always catching the Wizard off guard. However, I will at some point want her to get her act together.

Dorothy:  There was a comment made in the first pairing of episodes that talked about someone (can't remember what she was called without rewatching) being gone, and therefore no more witches would be born.

I've been just assuming that the person they were talking about was Dorothy's bio mom, and Dorothy is a witch without any training.  The funeral scene established that while the power is natural for them, it does require specific training.

Of course, you know what they say about assuming. . .   

Anna:  I didn't get the impression she was truly  loyal, so much as ambitious.  If she can prove her loyalty and usefulness, while undercutting the other Blue Hats, she'll gain status.  

West:  And, absolutely yes--West is interesting, but if she's going to stay interesting for me, she's going to have to move beyond damaged addict.  

[cooksdelight]

14 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Is there to be no Tin Man in this show? :'(

 I guess we'll need to keep an eye out for a guy with heart problems.

Witch of the West as a drugged-up oversexed drunk is hysterical.

I am finding myself more concerned about Toto's welfare than anyone else's.

[Hiveminder]

3 hours ago, AzureOwl said:

It was a prescription bottle, so it had Dorothy's name on it. So now Eammon will know he is looking for a girl named Dorothy Gale.

Didn't Dorothy find a pill bottle in her mother's trailer?  I think it makes more sense that it was that. It doesn't seem like The Wizard would recognize Dorothy's name, but he should recognize Karen's name if he's the one who brought her to the WotE's castle. 

[paulvdb]

The name on the bottle was Dorothy Gale. I couldn't read anything else on it, so I don't know what kind of pills were in it.

[missysays]

After watching this episode, I think the majority of the critics who damned the first two episodes as being flat storytelling with no character development didn't give it enough of a chance.

For me, there was character development galore -especially amongst the secondary storylines. If you look more closely at the Tip storyline it's a complex layering of an adolescent who has been abused and possibly kidnapped their entire life. On top of it you might say it's an allegory about the struggle of a transgendered person. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread the moment when Tip doesn't know which bathroom to go to spells out in a nutshell what most transgendered people feel. Their gut tells them they are one thing but physical appearance and social norms says they have to behave in a different way. I was also impressed by the directing and acting of the actors who played bit parts in Tip's scenes. The waitress who walked up to Tip and warned him about covering up wasn't unkind. After her verbal warning, she gently and sympathetically touched Tip on his forearm. Also, the herbalist was also very kind in his revelation and warning to Tip about the true nature of the "medicine."

The Wizard and Anna scenes were also interesting bc you don't expect him to be so sympathetic to her and to relate to her in some ways.

Really great nuanced stuff in there. I hope the viewing audience continues to give the show a chance.

Plus, it doesn't hurt that Dorothy and her Scarecrow are gorgeous to look at and have a great chemistry.

Edited January 14, 2017 by missysays

[CooperTV]

7 minutes ago, missysays said:

I think the majority of the critics who damned the first two episodes as being flat storytelling with no character development didn't give it enough of a chance.

I had an impression critics had all ten episodes available for review and analyzed the show as a whole? At least AVClub and IGN ones did. It isn't the case for others?

[NorthstarATL]

2 hours ago, missysays said:

On top of it you might say it's an allegory about the struggle of a transgendered person. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread the moment when Tip doesn't know which bathroom to go to spells out in a nutshell what most transgendered people feel. Their gut tells them they are one thing but physical appearance and social norms says they have to behave in a different way.

I assume even in Oz the difference between the bathrooms has to do with body parts and plumbing, which has nothing to do with social norms or feelings. But I get your point. I lived with a transgender as a housemate and he managed to change a few things at a major company. I also have several sisters, ranging from girly girls to tomboys, and the sudden breasts reminded me of one sister who got the most and wanted them the least. We all have our crosses to bear, I guess.

   I'm liking this take on the story thus far, but am far more interested in the witches and Wizard than in Dorothy and her companions.

[Camera One]

This episode was pretty much on-par with the first two episodes... a few interesting elements, and about average in terms of engagement.

I'm glad the Wizard is slightly more human in this episode, as he was quite tiresome last week.  There was an icky vibe with Glinda's girl that he shared most of the scenes with, though.  I wasn't sure if she was attracted to him or what.  As someone said above, why would she promise not to tell Glinda?  I'm still not interested in The Beast forever stuff.  It's so ambiguous.

There was some nice little moments between Dorothy and Lucas, though a lot of the time, I'm not sure what he is actually saying.  It was predictable that her mother was in Oz, though I'm not sure why she needed to stand in the funnel cloud to figure that out.  It's almost like they write scenes for the visuals rather than for plot that makes sense.  

Ev is some steampunk world?  As iMonrey said, it's more of a name-drop.  I did like the scene at the apothecary as well.  It feels like this is a completely different show since they didn't give a sense of where Ev is, or how it is related to other places.  Is it supposed to be some random city?

[cooksdelight]

I noticed when the blue-headed nun lady was showing something to D'Onofrio, there was a diagram of a circular floral shape. I'm pretty sure I saw the dots (as small circles in the diagram) that are tattooed onto Dorothy's hand (and her mother's).

[Fireball]

10 hours ago, Mari said:

Dorothy:  There was a comment made in the first pairing of episodes that talked about someone (can't remember what she was called without rewatching) being gone, and therefore no more witches would be born.

I've been just assuming that the person they were talking about was Dorothy's bio mom, and Dorothy is a witch without any training.  The funeral scene established that while the power is natural for them, it does require specific training.

Of course, you know what they say about assuming. . .   

Anna:  I didn't get the impression she was truly  loyal, so much as ambitious.  If she can prove her loyalty and usefulness, while undercutting the other Blue Hats, she'll gain status.  

West:  And, absolutely yes--West is interesting, but if she's going to stay interesting for me, she's going to have to move beyond damaged addict.  

Oh I'm assuming Dorothy is a witch too, but I could see the writers saying it was the Ruby Gloves that gave Dorothy the power.

So Anna's ambitious. That works much better for me than she's loyal to the Wizard she's known all of 2 sec. ;) Blue Hats! Great name; I couldn't think what to call them other than nuns or women in funny hats.

 

8 hours ago, bikebrh said:

I can say that Tip is

Spoiler

not a witch, but Tip is a VERY important character you need to keep an eye on.

 

I'm sure you were just trying to be nice by answering my post, and I thank you for that. However, I wasn't looking for an definitive answer about Tip; maybe I should have worded my post differently. But I wish you had added a spoiler tag like I did it would have kept me unspoiled.

[missysays]

6 hours ago, CooperTV said:

I had an impression critics had all ten episodes available for review and analyzed the show as a whole? At least AVClub and IGN ones did. It isn't the case for others?

Perhaps AV and IGN did. I was thinking of the ones I read in Hollywood Reporter and LA Times. I thought while they mentioned that there are 10 episodes that they spoke mainly about the first few hours - meaning the two hour debut. 

[dargosmydaddy]

8 hours ago, paulvdb said:

The name on the bottle was Dorothy Gale.

Didn't Dorothy pop a pull in the first episode? It was during her trek with the head Munchkin guy, and she said something about a headache... I remembered thinking it was a little odd she just happened to have aspirin with her, but maybe it was this bottle? 

[Ariah]

Let me just say how much I love the subtle acknowledging of the Oz lore by having the powerful witches perish by water. In this world they drowned, not melted, but still.

I still love this show and I'm still baffled by the speed at which everyone seems to travel. I mean, everyone (except Dorothy and Lucas) is able to do travel jump-cuts. And the main couple simply walks. This cannot be good for Lucas' busted knee. He was seriously limping even more than in the episodes prior. Let the guy get some rest!

Dorothy looked lovely as the new Mistress of the Eastern Wood. And I'm fully on board the Dorothy x Lucas ship.

I may be seeing/over-interpreting things, but I have a feeling Sullivan, the Blade of Mistress East was in love with the witch. The way he dropped to his knees with resignation, when he learned she took her own life (half-truth, courtesy of Dorothy) kind of broke my heart.

I also wonder how good is really Lucas with the sword - if he really doesn't remember much, muscle memory can get him only a short distance. Hopefully, we'll learn that soon enough.

When Anna ensured the Wizard she won't spill his secret to Glinda... She planted a big fat seed of doubt in Frank. Now he realises that every member of his council is a spy for the Maiden of the Northern Light. I don't know if he was not expecting that. I, for sure, was.

My heart broke for Tip, who learned the 'truth' about him/herself. And them there was Jack - stupid, naive and confused with feelings he was not supposed to feel. This couldn't have ended well. Since I know who Tip is supposed to be, the revelation was never a surprise to me. What is surprising, though, is the maturity with which the topic is tackled. There's little comedy that could have been there if taken by lesser writers. Every choice has dramatic consequences. You cannot just wish something like this 'ok', you cannot just kiss a girl into silence. Reality will hit you like a paved courtyard.

Don't ruin that, show.

[tanita]

I'm thinking that Jack may become the Tin Man and the brooding wizard guard is the Cowardly Lion.

[CooperTV]

13 minutes ago, tanita said:

I'm thinking that Jack may become the Tin Man and the brooding wizard guard is the Cowardly Lion.

I'm thinking the Curly Hair Sour Man is a Tin Man, and Jack is going

Spoiler

to be who's Jack is supposed to be in the books. Which is a stick man with a pumpkin head.

[adam807]

12 hours ago, missysays said:

19 hours ago, CooperTV said:

I had an impression critics had all ten episodes available for review and analyzed the show as a whole? At least AVClub and IGN ones did. It isn't the case for others?

Perhaps AV and IGN did. I was thinking of the ones I read in Hollywood Reporter and LA Times. I thought while they mentioned that there are 10 episodes that they spoke mainly about the first few hours - meaning the two hour debut. 

We did get all 10, but honestly who has time for that? I watched 5 for my initial review. The NY Magazine review specifically mentioned he watched 3 (the debut plus this one). I have since watched the whole thing because New Year's weekend was quiet and I enjoyed it, but am taking pains not to spoil anything in my weekly coverage here. Critically speaking, I feel comfortable saying that if you're enjoying it you'll keep enjoying it and it probably gets a bit better. If you feel it's not for you, it's not going to become for you. If you're a frustrated Oz purist, you're not going to get any less frustrated (which is not to say you might not enjoy it anyway!). :)

Edited January 15, 2017 by adam807

[adam807]

20 hours ago, Mari said:

There was a comment made in the first pairing of episodes that talked about someone (can't remember what she was called without rewatching) being gone, and therefore no more witches would be born.

That was the Witch of the South. She's also referred to as West and Glinda's mother, but I'm not sure if that's meant literally or not.

[sjohnson]

The Oz reimagining finds its groove, but does it make any sense?

View the full article

I own a copy of Immortals just because it looks so good. (I have The Fall too but that's actually a story that engages me, sue me.) So I'm going to watch this series. It's a lot like Hannibal, though, what do all these little bits and pieces from books have to do with this series?

Unless you assume Tip is stupid, stupid, stupid, the possibility that she at some level wanted to kill Jack is very real. I think a boy that offended at another boy kissing him would punch, not push. And one who wasn't that aggressive would recoil rather than stand his ground and shove with all their might. I think the show, despite all the dialogue about Tip feeling like a boy, meant this to be a woman killing a rapist. Kickass heroine, hurrah?

[iMonrey]

Ratings aren't too good. 0.8 in the key demo and 3.2 million total viewers - a drop from the Grimm lead-in, which itself is a show that's suffering from falling ratings. So far Zap2It has it as a "toss-up" for renewal but given how expensive it seems to have been to produce it I'm not liking its chances.

[Kelda Feegle]

On 1/15/2017 at 3:39 AM, rollacoaster said:

Hey, did anyone else see Mistress East's guardian and think, "Strong Belwas!" Just me? Ok, I'll show myself out.  

nope but I cannot see Lucas as anything other than NotJakeGyllenhall and the dark witch as NotStevieNicks

[tennisgurl]

Oh Jack! I guess it can be confusing when your a hormonal boy whos best friend just turned into a hot girl literally over night. I feel like this isn't really his end though. I feel like Tip will find out she has magic powers or something and she will bring him back to life somehow. I am really interested in her story, and I like that they're not playing her (his?) transformation from boy to turn as a joke. It was would easy for writers to just turn it into "now he has boobs and likes shopping and cries, yuck yuck yuck", but instead they're playing it for actual drama. So far, its working. Plus, the city Tip and Jack went to looked super cool. 

I still like Dorothy and Lucas and their adventures, the two actors have solid chemistry together, and it gives us lots of road trip time to explore the land. I continue to love the look of everything, and the visuals are amazing. So this guy made The Cell? I remember that movie vaguely, so I had to IMBD it. If I remember right, it looked amazing, but the plot was kind of meh. This could be a nice change for the director, considering this already has tons of source material for him to dig into, plus a whole magical land to explore. 

Its almost like we are watching three different shows at once that take place in the same area and occasionally intersect. We have the road trip/discover of identity story with Tip and Jack, the road trip/mysterious backstory/romance with Dorothy and Lucas, and the political drama and murder mystery stuff in the Emerald City. I am really interested to see how they tie them all together eventually. 

[Cthulhudrew]

On 1/14/2017 at 7:29 AM, missysays said:

I wonder if that Wizard's guard is the equivalent of the Tin Man and we'll learn more about his backstory as the series goes on. He is part of the main cast group photo and his armor could be their allusion to the Tin Man just as the straw stuck on Lucas when he was on the cross was his Scarecrow nod.

I think Eamonn is the Cowardly Lion stand-in. While he's not cowardly that we've seen, their depiction of him as an expert hunter/tracker seems to be an allusion to the hunting prowess of big cats. Plus, when the other guards were contemplating killing him in the pilot, they mentioned wanting to make it look "as if lions did it." And the man who attacked him looked like a predator mauled him. Eamonn may be a lycanthrope.

[Happytobehere]

So last week, the rarely hired because we know why, dark-skinned black woman is the Wicked Witch who deserves to die.  This week, a different black girl kills someone who tried to help her.  Sensing a them and I'm out.

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, Mari said:

West:  And, absolutely yes--West is interesting, but if she's going to stay interesting for me, she's going to have to move beyond damaged addict.  

Ad move her chin down to 90 degrees. Her upturned face in Every Single Scene really got to me!

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

 I am finding myself more concerned about Toto's welfare than anyone else's.

Every time I hear Dorothy call for Toto, I hear him thinking "Don't call me 'Dog'!  I have a name!!!!"

[Mari]

42 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

Ad move her chin down to 90 degrees. Her upturned face in Every Single Scene really got to me!

Ooh.  . . I didn't even notice it until you pointed it out, but you're right.

It's petty, but that's gonna bug.

[mammaM]

9 hours ago, adam807 said:

That was the Witch of the South. She's also referred to as West and Glinda's mother, but I'm not sure if that's meant literally or not.

The Wizard called her Mother South and said since she was gone no other witches will ever be born. I've been to the dentist and am now living on antibiotics and painkillers so bear with me but I've been thinking....maybe "mother" is literal, the other witches all have a "thing", maybe South is the only fertile witch. Every Mother South has four daughters who eventually become the cardinal witches and with South gone, no more witches. And if Karen is Mother South that means Dorothy is a witch. Of course it also means she has three sisters somewhere. Like I said, I'm on alot of painkillers right now

[Morrigan2575]

35 minutes ago, mammaM said:

The Wizard called her Mother South and said since she was gone no other witches will ever be born. I've been to the dentist and am now living on antibiotics and painkillers so bear with me but I've been thinking....maybe "mother" is literal, the other witches all have a "thing", maybe South is the only fertile witch. Every Mother South has four daughters who eventually become the cardinal witches and with South gone, no more witches. And if Karen is Mother South that means Dorothy is a witch. Of course it also means she has three sisters somewhere. Like I said, I'm on alot of painkillers right now

I've been wondering about Mother South. We obviously have more magic and witches than just the Cardinal Witches (although they are obviously special/higher level). I'm wondering if South/Mother Witch is Just more a representation of fertility and magic. Not that she's the only one that can birth Cardinal Witches but that their power flows through her?

One thing that's been said a couple of times is that Cardinal Witches aren't hereditary. East's protector assumed Dorothy was East's acolyte.  They are supposed to take on an apprentice to Pass on their knowledge/spells/powers?

I'm Thinking Dorothy is leading towards a rebirth of magic Cardinal Witches in Oz.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[phoenics]

In the other thread, people mentioned a similarity between Lucas and the Scarecrow/Tin Man character in the Tin Man Series.

I never saw the Tin Man series, but I've been thinking about the Scarecrow character a lot and wondered if perhaps he was actually the Tin Man or a mashup of Tin Man and Scarecrow?  I kinda think the Lion character (Eamonn) is probably going to have a bit of Tin Man in him too eventually - or maybe he's a Lycanthrope.

Tip and Jack howling at the moon made me think that werewolves exist in Oz.

I wonder if Dorothy is the daughter of The Wizard and her mother is the South Mother.  She died back in Kansas, right?  I think those "cops" were actually from Oz sent to kill her.  The way the cop looked at Dorothy - I couldn't tell if that was a police brutality reference or meant to illustrate that they came to kill her.  Remember the dead cop already?

I knew Tip was a girl from her first line.  I'm wondering if the woman holding her - forgot her name - is a character I'm remembering now from the books or not.  

 

In the books I think she pretends to be the Witch of the South and keeps Tip captive as a boy to prevent her/him? from ascending the throne.  I think I have that right.

I felt terrible for Tip - I was kinda upset that they had her shove Jack off the balcony.  I understood her shoving him, I was mad that the railing gave way.  It feels like too much for this story and the darkness of it kinda hurt me.

This show is visually stunning.  The scene where Dorothy ran over East was just ... wow.  That red dress (looks better on East than Dorothy, though DG was pretty in it)... wow.  That red dress is everything.  Her on the rock?  What?!?!  More of that please!

I had thought that Beast Forever was nature, but with the women "possessed by magic" committing suicide, I don't know.  Did Anna resolve that?  And how did she know it was going to snow?  That whole section with her left me confused.  Maybe I have to watch it again.  And was there a connection between the snow falling in Oz and Dorothy going into the funnel and bringing back the lab coat from the snowy place?  And where was she?  Why did it look like she was kinda home with all of the artifacts clearly from our world (dolls, toys, the lab coat)?

Why did The Wizard personally send Dorothy's mother (the interloper) back?  Is she a witch or not?

The funnel/twister - is that a portal of some sort?  Could Dorothy go back home that way?  And if she could, could East?  I'm so confused yet intrigued by this show.

Anyone else get "Once Upon A Time" vibes from this show?

[mammaM]

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I've been wondering about Mother South. We obviously have more magic and witches than just the Cardinal Witches (although they are obviously special/higher level). I'm wondering if South/Mother Witch is Just more a representation of fertility and magic. Not that she's the only one that can birth Cardinal Witches but that their power flows through her?

One thing that's been said a couple of times is that Cardinal Witches aren't hereditary. East's protector assumed Dorothy was East's acolyte.  They are supposed to take on an apprentice to Pass on their knowledge/spells/powers?

I'm Thinking Dorothy is leading towards a rebirth of magic Cardinal Witches in Oz.

That might make more sense than my theory. Though if that's true, Oz still needs a South. Maybe Dorothy can't control weather because she's not trained, or not a witch, or maybe she's the wrong kind of witch. It seemed that Glinda and West couldn't do each other's magic (or Easts). But she could wear the gauntlets. It seems that for a rebirth of magic you need two more cardinal witches (that's assuming Glinda and West don't get killed). Again, if you don't like my theory I plead painkillers