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S23.E05: Avant Garde

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Law Roach discusses the importance of personal style; Nicola Formichetti takes the models out of their comfort zones. 

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Sometimes this show seems more about the luck of getting a workable makeover and decent fashion to wear. The girls who get fifteen pound headgear, twelve inch stiletto platforms or lace and fringe that gets caught in everything have a disadvantage, period. 

The whole part about the aesthetic was awkward. Most of them had underdeveloped style, so help them to hone it. NYC is a mecca for finding fashion, so take them to a place like the Bowery store Patricia Field had (now closed, sadly), Century 21 or Goodwill in upscale neighborhoods and teach them how to shop. 

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RTV Games has been pretty much right so far about the boot order. I wish I could remember who goes next, but that site is infested with malware now and I don't dare go over there to look. I should have copied the list when I first saw it. If I remember correctly, though, 

Spoiler

India goes far (and possibly Paige does too), which surprised me because of India's wonky eyes. Courtney may be gone about mid-season, which is coming up soon. 

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I really dislike Marissa. I want to like Kyle, but now she seems like one of those who won't try and then complains when she's criticized.  I liked Giah, but she really wasn't a model.  Binta's a decent model but they seem to see something more in her than I do.  Boy, India's hair faded quickly.  I originally thought Courtney was being picked on, but she's really perfected being a victim and didn't learn anything from last panel, did she?

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Kyle's in the wrong industry if she's not comfortable in heels or wearing dresses. This probably one of those rare moments where I miss the old show. She's not practicing wearing heels, walking,  or her poses. She deserves to be in the bottom 2, but I don't know that she gets why she's there.  Giah is just a pretty girl and her makeover didn't help her one bit.

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I'd love to say I had any actual idea about what was up in this episode. But I don't. First off, they've done the personal style critiques before. In cycles two and three at least, anyone remember Simon (?) whoever, buyer for Barney's, making Catie cry? I've been wondering how they would keep things fresh and come up with new ideas for shoots and now I have my answer. That supermarket stuff looked straight out of the 90s. Not happy Giah went home, but that makeover all but doomed her. Can't stand Krislian, can't remember Tatiana. And I'm starting to feel like this show has been on for months..................maybe next week will be better.

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Wow, the pho-tos (when there are actually photos) are abysmal this season. Not just the models, but the photographers. I swear, it looks like they're taking the photos with disposable cameras.

Not that the mother-show was great the past few seasons, but it was better than this reboot.

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The judging of the pho-os of the week was some predictable bullshit. Coryanne and Cory's photos were striking because they were in the most stunning looks, floor-length gowns with trains, and a full body shot. Coryanne's face was doing less than nothing in hers, but the picture looked good because the dress looked good! 

Also Law's teach/challenge made me yearn for the days of Miss Jay so hard. All he had in him was vague criticism and self-indulgent nonsense. Him and Rita need to try to stop selling me on what makes them experts. It's not going to work, because who the hell even are they, and it's irritating. 

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I stopped watching original version a few years ago and really didn't think I'd give this one the time of day, but decided to check it out anyway and I'm still watching so...

Positives: I'm glad the "boys" are gone. I hated that dynamic. Also, male models just aren't as interesting to me, and they're just as catty, so why bother? Just give us the girls. Kelly is gone and that's always good so I don't have to avert my eyes every time she's on the screen, because she's NOT. Sorry, but her personal style is uber boring and she always looks dirty to me. Like she needs a good hair washing and scrubbing.

Negatives: this is a mostly stereotypical, and, at the same time, boring crew. I liked Giah as a person, so I'll miss her, although as a Texas native who also did not come from privilege, you don't necessarily have to have money to be stylish, so I got kind of tired of the "I'm from Texas and I'm poor and we don't know nothin'" shtick.

I don't think Marissa looks fun; I think she looks mean. I hate her attitude and I'm sorry she's doing so well, so far. Tatiana I don't see anything special about so I kind of don't get that falling down over the photos love that she's getting. Courtney is very model-ly so I see why they love her pics so much, but I'm not sure anyone would ever want to work with her a second time. I'm not sure she wants to conquer her oh poor me-ism. I agree with the Paper guy: I think they should cut her loose because they are not going to want her to represent ANTM, even though that thought is laughable. Has anyone from the show ever done much of anything? I mean Nile (Nyle?? howsoever you spell it) went on to win DWTS, but, once again, I think he won that (and this) because he's pretty and he's deaf.

Chrisliane's not that sexy; just sayin'. Don't know why they keep saying she can be the social media brand. Like thousands of others out there? Nothing special.

My favourites right now are the twin (sorry I cannot remember her name) and Paige. I want Kyle to do well because I love the look but I think she can't do anything BUT that look so it's going to be very limiting for her. On the show, at least. She definitely looks like she could have a high fashion modelling career.

Edited by PepperMonkey
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As is typical with ANTM they never pick the girls' best pictures.  CoryAnne got great feedback during her shoot but they chose that photo of her.  Tyra once addressed this by saying sometimes the girl did good but the light wasn't right or this wasn't right and that's why she chose a photo that wasn't that great (okay, Tyra).

Giah seemed like a nice girl but maybe modeling isn't for her.  I've never seen anything in Kyle and her complaining about having to wear dresses and heels because she's so boyish is annoying.  You're trying to be a model and are going to have to do things out of your comfort zone.  Suck it up or find something else to do.  Though, agree that walking lessons would be good.

Courtney is draining.  This is the second time she's been called out at panel and she still doesn't seem to get it.

As for the challenge, I get that Law like's Tati but I'd have given the win to Binta.  I also like the idea of taking them around to places in NYC and showing how they can develop their style and take advantage of the fact that they are in NYC.

CoryAnne did well this week but whichever girl pegged the fact that Cory needs to be loved and adored nailed it.  Cory needs to toughen up.

Edited by milkyaqua
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Methinks Law Roach has gone neither hunting nor fishing if he thinks Giah was dressed for either.  It was, however, an amusing comment.

(Actually, what she was wearing would be appropriate for Bonnaroo, no matter what Alex wrote in his recap.)

Edited by proserpina65
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I'm trying to figure out how they're judging these pics from the photoshoots.  I think Marissa would have been ripped apart with her pose from the old judges.  The looking back over her shoulder with her chin tucked down so you lost the lower portion of her face and no neck.  I recall Tyra hating no neck!  And Tatianna just got the saddest outfit.  She has a beautiful face, but did not look like a model.   As much fuss as they're making about Courtney's attitude, she still looks the most bookable.  She does need to stop whining though.

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I gave up trying to figure out how they were choosing these pics and the callout order after epi 2.  It makes no sense.  Marissa had better pictures (pretty much all of the girls did) so it makes no sense how they are choosing them.  Tyra always chose pics based on who she wanted to get rid of regardless of feedback she'd gotten from Mr. Jay on set.  I know Drew liked Marissa on set but the pic chosen doesn't reflect his level of enthusiasm.  I'm almost tempted to think Tyra is still choosing the pics even though she's not involved day-to-day (she did choose the semi-finalists so this isn't that far fetched for me to believe anyway).

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Yeah, during the photoshoot most of them seemed to get better pictures. You couldn't see neither Marissa's nor Courtney's dresses. Paige looked dead. CoryAnne looked good but was serving amputee a bit. Which in the end didn't matter because they got good critiques but still.

The photographer was hot. Why didn't they introduce him? Rude.

I don't know what it is... but Tatiana gives me psychopath vibes lmao. She just sounds so calculated and put together.

I like Krislian. I mean I know she's never going to win but at least it seems she wants to learn how to be better and I do find more potential in her than in Giah (even if it's just as an instagram model).

Paige reminds me of someone else but I can't say who and it's been driving me mad since day one.

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I feel like Kyle thinks that because she has such a unique look (unique in that it's different from the others on the show), a cool hairstyle, etc. that she doesn't have to actually work for the shot-she can simply glare soulfully into the camera and be done with it. She's right in that she doesn't know how to move her body or work her angles, but that's something she SHOULD be working on. Having a unique look will only get you so far-both in the show and in the actual industry. 

I didn't think many of the photos were actually GOOD. The clothing came out okay but it was hard to see most of the girls' faces. Some had heads tilted at weird angles, some were simply lost in the clutter of the photos. I actually thought Krislian's wasn't too bad because at least you could see both her face and the clothing. 

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1 hour ago, Saintz said:

Yeah, during the photoshoot most of them seemed to get better pictures. You couldn't see neither Marissa's nor Courtney's dresses. Paige looked dead. CoryAnne looked good but was serving amputee a bit. Which in the end didn't matter because they got good critiques but still.

The photographer was hot. Why didn't they introduce him? Rude.

I don't know what it is... but Tatiana gives me psychopath vibes lmao. She just sounds so calculated and put together.

I like Krislian. I mean I know she's never going to win but at least it seems she wants to learn how to be better and I do find more potential in her than in Giah (even if it's just as an instagram model).

Paige reminds me of someone else but I can't say who and it's been driving me mad since day one.

Paige reminds me a lot of Dakota Fanning when she was in the Runaways movie.  India looks like she could double for Kate Hudson.  JMO

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I agree with CoryAnne getting the best photo this week, but honestly, the avant garde dress that she ended up getting helped her a lot. 

Kyle just seemed kind of over the competition this week. I like her edginess so I hope she does better next week, although according to the preview, it seems like she's more interested in pursuing other things, a.k.a. Marissa, lol.

I also like Krislian because she seems nice. Although she does tend to wear sexy clothes, she just naturally exudes sexiness to me without trying. I'm surprised that she stayed another week though because the judges don't seem to like her all that much especially Rita, but her photo was betters than Giah's.

The best moment of the episode for me was Drew's mini rant to Courtney during panel. She has so much potential, but her personality and behavior don't help her. She's basically her own worst enemy at this point because if she just focused on modeling and not complaining, she would be a lot more likeable. I think she needed to hear what he said to her and we'll just have to wait and see if she changes.

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Geez, Kyle, bitch much?  She seems like a typical Millennial to me... she's spent her entire life being told that she's special, she's cool, she's androgynous, she's a perfect little snowflake.  But in reality, there's nothing special about her.  She cuts her hair short and wears masculine clothes... OMG, what a rebel!!!  No one's ever done that before.  Her face was a picture when being criticised!  It did make me laugh.

I don't understand why people think Krislian is so sexy and how she can compare herself to Jennifer Lopez.  She's got no boobs and no ass.  In that white dress, during the personal style challenge, her abdomen stuck out further than her chest did.  Another case of someone telling herself something that's not actually true.

That photoshoot was stupidly ridiculous.  Ugly clothes, ugly shows, ugly resulting photographs.  Sorry, pho-os.

Looks like Binta's up to her usual tricks next week, with a new target victim.  The sooner she goes, the better.  Or gets on some meds.

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6 hours ago, zoltana said:

Paige reminds me of someone else but I can't say who and it's been driving me mad since day one.

Sometimes she reminds me of Rod Stewart's daughter Kimberly. 

I liked that they styled Tatiana to be high fashion by basically giving her pre-makeover hair back lol

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All my thought are about Kyle so far:

- Never realised before how much Kyle looks like Lady Di

- I call bullshit on the models having to walk on these shoes - I'm sure they normally would just put them on before the shoot

- And talking about shoot, Kyle's picture looked like a crime scene to me :)

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1 hour ago, NutMeg said:

- I call bullshit on the models having to walk on these shoes - I'm sure they normally would just put them on before the shoot

It does seem ridiculous to risk expensive clothes and jewelry, potential damage to location, and injury to the model just to make her walk in shoes not meant for ambulation.

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I don't think Marissa looks fun; I think she looks mean. I hate her attitude and I'm sorry she's doing so well, so far.

She reminds me of Santana from Glee. Considering how much I couldn't stand Santana, this is not a compliment. 

Coryanne turned it out this week. She definitely got the best dress and I liked her posing. She looked 8ft tall. She could be good if she'd put effort in. 

One thing I appreciate with the judges on this reboot is they're not into sob stories and bullshit. Though I groaned when I heard "so who stays and who goes?" I guess they had to inject some Tyra-isms in. 

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12 hours ago, Steph619 said:

The best moment of the episode for me was Drew's mini rant to Courtney during panel. She has so much potential, but her personality and behavior don't help her. She's basically her own worst enemy at this point because if she just focused on modeling and not complaining, she would be a lot more likeable. I think she needed to hear what he said to her and we'll just have to wait and see if she changes.

It's not just the complaining. There's a difference between confidence and arrogance and it's a measure of humility. I think she's faking confidence she doesn't have, and to your point she gets in her own way. Sometimes I feel like the judges forget the women are young and still learning.

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2 hours ago, schroob said:

It does seem ridiculous to risk expensive clothes and jewelry, potential damage to location, and injury to the model just to make her walk in shoes not meant for ambulation.

I thought the same thing! Why would they make them walk around in them? Just walk to the supermarket in your regular shoes and put them on right before the shoot starts.

I'm sad that Giah is gone. No, she wasn't a model, but I liked her personality.

I guess I would be a horrible judge because I hated all the photos.

Edited by MaggieG
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55 minutes ago, schroob said:

Sometimes I feel like the judges forget the women are young and still learning.

True, but if this is the industry they want to work in, they need to grow up quickly. Courtney could book a first job but she would never be asked to come back or be the face of a campaign because there are a million other thin blondes with thick brows out there who would be much easier to work with.

IDK why Kyle thinks she's so unique when she is basically ever androgynous model out there. Ripped jeans, a white shirt and black leather jacket is probably about the least original outfit ever.

Still loving India. I agree with Rita in that Instagram should have gone. She's nothing special and has huge bags under her eyes. She can go back to Instagram with new followers. She's already won. I don't think Giah would have gone much father, but I think she would have benefited more from staying on the show and learning.

I did think that panel interruption was interesting. Rita really doesn't like Instragram does she? Not only did she stop everything to try to change the outcome, she then had to explain it to Instragram to her face. Basically "I don't want you here". HA!

Stupid photo shoot and what is the point of designing shoes that can't be walked in? I will never understand "fashion"! hahaha

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2 hours ago, schroob said:

It does seem ridiculous to risk expensive clothes and jewelry, potential damage to location, and injury to the model just to make her walk in shoes not meant for ambulation.

In this same vein, I was flabbergasted at Marissa pouring milk over what I presume was an expensive designer gown.

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1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

True, but if this is the industry they want to work in, they need to grow up quickly. Courtney could book a first job but she would never be asked to come back or be the face of a campaign because there are a million other thin blondes with thick brows out there who would be much easier to work with.

I did think that panel interruption was interesting. Rita really doesn't like Instragram does she? Not only did she stop everything to try to change the outcome, she then had to explain it to Instragram to her face. Basically "I don't want you here". HA!

can't stand Courtney. If she won't be able to walk a runway or pose, no one is going to care about her back implants or allergies. Bitch, suck it up, or preferably, get gone. There will not be a special addendum to Vogue or on a Lagerfeld runway to explain why Courtney is a special snowflake.

Hate Rita Ora. Had no real career before this and ANTM is not your platform for stardom. I live for the side eyes between Law and Ashley when she speaks (last week was GOLD!) Bitch, no one knows or cares who you are. You have a RIMMEL cover. Rimmel that gets like 2x4 vertical pegs in Walmart. Why didn't Ashley get the lead host job (or at least Zendaya since they're dragging her name out so much)?

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

In this same vein, I was flabbergasted at Marissa pouring milk over what I presume was an expensive designer gown.

The kid and I wondered if she asked permission before doing this, since most Avant Garde looks are one of a kind and cannot be replicated. I'm sure she thought there would be a great shot captured with the milk flowing but what was chosen was still blah, short torsoed, and not much to write home about.

12 hours ago, Canada said:

Geez, Kyle, bitch much?  She seems like a typical Millennial to me... she's spent her entire life being told that she's special, she's cool, she's androgynous, she's a perfect little snowflake.  But in reality, there's nothing special about her.  She cuts her hair short and wears masculine clothes... OMG, what a rebel!!!  No one's ever done that before.  Her face was a picture when being criticised!  It did make me laugh.

 

One of the kid's best friends (trans boy) since elementary looks exactly like Kyle and at least he has the ability to show some facial expression (at 16). Kyle needs to understand that there are plenty of good looking boy/girl/andro folks and she is nothing special, especially without a walk, body movement, or personality. Check out more high profile andro models like Merika who can do more than wear a 1986 George Michael outfit. COVER_MERIKA.jpg?fit=662,500

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53 minutes ago, sunsheyen said:

One of the kid's best friends (trans boy) since elementary looks exactly like Kyle and at least he has the ability to show some facial expression (at 16). Kyle needs to understand that there are plenty of good looking boy/girl/andro folks and she is nothing special, especially without a walk, body movement, or personality. Check out more high profile andro models like Merika who can do more than wear a 1986 George Michael outfit. COVER_MERIKA.jpg?fit=662,500

The cheekbones, honey!

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On 1/10/2017 at 2:43 PM, zoltana said:

I'm trying to figure out how they're judging these pics from the photoshoots.  I think Marissa would have been ripped apart with her pose from the old judges.  The looking back over her shoulder with her chin tucked down so you lost the lower portion of her face and no neck.  I recall Tyra hating no neck! 

I was sitting on my couch yelling "where's your neck??" hehe. Old habits die hard.

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35 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

I was sitting on my couch yelling "where's your neck??" hehe. Old habits die hard.

They really must be seeing things that we aren't seeing. I didn't think Coreyanne's pic was all that but they were blown away by it.

Is it bad that I want Janice D to come back for at least one episode? At least that would be somewhat interesting LOL

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It's hard to get a good photo when your butt is lodged in a meat case, especially if your butt is covered with balloons.  Even Paige, who was really working it if I recall correctly, did not get called very early, and the photo chosen basically has her half submerged in the case with very little of the dress showing, and that wasn't really her fault.  I know Giah was never going to go far, but being made to wear balloons under your skirt (and they seemed so disgusted with her when they popped) and then sit on them was just a set-up for her to fail spectacularly.  

Especially in certain makeup and hairstyles, Paige looks like Courtney Love to me (most noticeable on the naked shoot, least so in her hang around the house look).  

And I just realized who her less made up looks remind me of!  Because I am old, it both took me a while and took me way back!  Jenilee Harrison in Three's Company!  Look at her dropped-open mouth in this picture.  (To some extent Suzanne Somers of that era too, but other than hair color, more Harrison).

Edited by Jobiska
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22 hours ago, sunsheyen said:

can't stand Courtney. If she won't be able to walk a runway or pose, no one is going to care about her back implants or allergies. Bitch, suck it up, or preferably, get gone. There will not be a special addendum to Vogue or on a Lagerfeld runway to explain why Courtney is a special snowflake.

Hate Rita Ora. Had no real career before this and ANTM is not your platform for stardom. I live for the side eyes between Law and Ashley when she speaks (last week was GOLD!) Bitch, no one knows or cares who you are. You have a RIMMEL cover. Rimmel that gets like 2x4 vertical pegs in Walmart. Why didn't Ashley get the lead host job (or at least Zendaya since they're dragging her name out so much)?

The kid and I wondered if she asked permission before doing this, since most Avant Garde looks are one of a kind and cannot be replicated. I'm sure she thought there would be a great shot captured with the milk flowing but what was chosen was still blah, short torsoed, and not much to write home about.

One of the kid's best friends (trans boy) since elementary looks exactly like Kyle and at least he has the ability to show some facial expression (at 16). Kyle needs to understand that there are plenty of good looking boy/girl/andro folks and she is nothing special, especially without a walk, body movement, or personality. Check out more high profile andro models like Merika who can do more than wear a 1986 George Michael outfit. COVER_MERIKA.jpg?fit=662,500

Merika?  Merika from Love and Hip Hop Merika?! They said she was a model but I truly didn't believe them lol. She looks like a tall Justin Bieber on tv.

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Courtney's eyebrows look great in the photos abs horrible "in person". I wonder what they look like for real in person. Maybe she is shading them in badly? I don't even notice her general awfulness as a person anymore because it's all I see.  

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Apparently they look like Chia Pets, according to some snotbag who was around in the first episode that went home for being butt ugly.

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On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 6:22 AM, DEL901 said:

I really dislike Marissa. I want to like Kyle, but now she seems like one of those who won't try and then complains when she's criticized.  I liked Giah, but she really wasn't a model.  Binta's a decent model but they seem to see something more in her than I do.  Boy, India's hair faded quickly.  I originally thought Courtney was being picked on, but she's really perfected being a victim and didn't learn anything from last panel, did she?

Re: India's hair.  I don't know if you watched the original ANTM, but they gave Sophie (the Brit winner of C18) cotton candy pink hair after her hair color coming in was bleached blonde.  Sorry, "platinum".  Anyway, that girls hair faded so fast it was unreal.  I don't know if they touched her up as time went along or if they aired her THs out of order, but she spent the whole show with hair that changed brightness and it drove me nuts.

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All the "avant garde" dresses the hamsters wore this week look like Lady Gaga's old stage clothes from her "Bad Romance" era, probably because they actually are. I am surprised no one was asked to pose in the "meat dress", the "Kermit the frog dress" or the "condom dress" from the "Born this way" video.

I used to like Kyle but now I think she has a bad attitude and can't pose to save her life. She is still way better than Krislianne though. Sadly Krisliane will never be Jennifer Lopez or even Jaslene the ANTM winner from cycle 8.

Giah is indeed a pretty girl from the mall but not a model. I can see her being in music videos though and maybe some print ads. Not surprised she was eliminated.

At this point, I am not sure who among the hamsters can actually represent the ANTM "brand" and fit the Paper magazine and Rimmel London image. If I had to choose, I will probably go with the girl with the purple hair since she seems young and vibrant, and will probably be the most fun to hang around.

I agree with an earlier poster about Tatianna and Marissa. Tatianna is like a pre-programmed cyborg that is too well put together and says all the right things at the right time. Scary! As for Marissa, all I see is mean Kardashian sister with absolutely zero model potential.

Binta and Courtney both need to be on meds. They are extremely annoying and should be double-eliminated ASAP.

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Damn, Rita.  I didn't know you were that cold, trying to stop elimination to plead for Krislian's ouster and then outright telling her that you wanted her gone.  I mean . . . damn.

Based on the challenge, I'd have given it to Tatiana or Binta.  Both of their chosen looks were striking and fit the ideas they had for their particular niche.  I might've leaned slightly in Binta's favor, but I can see why Law went with Tatiana.  And at least this time, despite losing, Binta actually seemed happy for Tatiana's win.

Yeah, I didn't get sold on this photoshoot at all.  Most of the girls' bodies I couldn't make out in the final photos, and that's Drew and Nicola's fault, not theirs.  But based on what I saw, CoryAnne deserved the first callout.  But I might've given Paige the second spot, and then Cody.

Speaking of Cody, she definitely seems a lot better with Tash not around, so good for her in focusing.

Courtney can't possibly last for much longer.  With all of the complaining, I can't see Rita, Ashley, Drew, or Law wanting to work with her.

Marissa does seem and feel like a piece of work.  But her edit feels the most winner-ish, so I won't be surprised if she takes it all.

I liked Giah from a personality standpoint, but I agree that she was no model.  And based on the bottom two, while I agree that Kyle is starting to show some bad attitude, she at least has an interesting enough look and personality that I was okay with her staying.

Not as strong of an episode as last week.  Hope this cycle starts getting better again.

Edited by Michel
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On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 5:22 AM, DEL901 said:

  Boy, India's hair faded quickly. 

As someone who has been sporting purple hair for almost a year now, yes, those "fashion colors" wash out the moment you think about washing your hair.

I do full on purple (I have medium blond hair naturally with some highlight from previous style) and have to color it every 3 weeks or so. I try to survive as long as possible on dry shampoo, to minimize washing. Though I actually like how it fades from vibrant lilac to pastel lilac to silver to my natural ash blond, so it's all good :)

The color they gave her was not too bright initially, so I knew it'll be gone in an instant. I wonder what color they used on her... After trying couple brands I found that Spark holds the longest.

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