S05.E11: Be My Guest

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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Holmes and Watson race to find a woman who's been held captive for years before the kidnapper takes drastic steps to avoid being caught. Also, Watson becomes frustrated when Shinwell refuses to focus on his informant training with her and Holmes.

[paigow]

Who is the bad guy....Lumiere?? Mrs. Potts??

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, paigow said:

Who is the bad guy....Lumiere?? Mrs. Potts??

Everybody knows Gaston is the culprit!

[johntfs]

Of course not, it's obviously...

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo:

[Trini]

Groan... I knew it was odd when they showed that lady pouring creamer. But I usually don't try and guess the killer beforehand.

[Cotypubby]

I knew it was the ex-wife as soon as she showed up, that actress is too recognizable (The Wire) for just one quick scene. The coffee creamer was also way too prominent, I knew that would figure in to revealing her because they made sure to have the label of the fake brand front and center.

Usually the case isn't this simple to figure out.

[GaT]

1 hour ago, Cotypubby said:

I knew it was the ex-wife as soon as she showed up, that actress is too recognizable (The Wire) for just one quick scene.

I didn't know who she was & didn't recognize her, but I knew she was the accomplice right away.  

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

I knew it was the ex-wife as soon as she showed up, that actress is too recognizable (The Wire) for just one quick scene. The coffee creamer was also way too prominent, I knew that would figure in to revealing her because they made sure to have the label of the fake brand front and center.

Usually the case isn't this simple to figure out.

Yes, Deirdre Lovejoy has always been at least somewhat of a sociopath whenever I've seen her as a guest star, even when her character was an innocent psycho. Too bad they didn't use her as a red herring.

But I did love Joan's sweater with the yellow horizontal stripe and the coat with the many buttons — both fit her perfectly — and also the black and white skirt later in the episode.

[Writing Wrongs]

I wish they'd lose the Shinwell storyline. But since the actor's name is now in the opening credits, I guess he's around for good.

[fauntleroy]

Instead of spending time with sleepy Shinwell fiddling with locks (which feels like a thing from 70 years ago) and learning Spanish (from Watson?) I wish they'd show more about the victim. She was only in the beginning in a collar, and in the end in a trunk. Jeez what a lousy gig for an actress. A brief scene at the end, maybe later Watson checking in on her at the hospital, would have been nice. As it was she was just a McGuffin in human form.

[MaryHedwig]

Just now, fauntleroy said:

Instead of spending time with sleepy Shinwell fiddling with locks (which feels like a thing from 70 years ago) and learning Spanish (from Watson?) I wish they'd show more about the victim. She was only in the beginning in a collar, and in the end in a trunk. Jeez what a lousy gig for an actress. A brief scene at the end, maybe later Watson checking in on her at the hospital, would have been nice. As it was she was just a McGuffin in human form.

I was looking forward to Sherlock comforting the 2 victims as he did in the episode long ago where he found an imprisoned Russian bride in the basement. I love that more tender part of Sherlock. Also, I was looking forward to Watson mentioning some connection to the victims due to her ethnicity: "If not for my grandfather's bravery that could have been me."

[Mama No Life]

Yeah, I'm not one that tries to figure it out so it was pretty telegraphed that I knew the Gravedigger was guilty just because they showed her pouring creamer.  Try harder show.

[iMonrey]

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I knew it was the ex-wife as soon as she showed up, that actress is too recognizable (The Wire) for just one quick scene.

Yup - an all too frequent problem with this show. Recognize the witness from myriad other shows? Then it's almost assuredly the guilty party.

I don't understand the point of Shinwell. And it's hard to believe Nelsen Ellis went from playing a character who was so fabulous on another show to a character who is so boring on this one. I think maybe that's the problem; he's trying so hard to get as far away from Lafayette as possible that he's coming off like a sleeping zombie. But, the writing isn't doing him any favors either. He's just not interesting, at all.

Edited January 9, 2017 by iMonrey

[Loandbehold]

As someone who spent his formative years in Rockaway Beach - represent! I was glad that they got the subway stops correct. However, there is a Boardwalk that goes all the way to Beach 116th Street (at least). Now, if ex-wife lactose intolerant tossed him into Jamaica Bay, that would be more the view you could have. Of course, you wouldn't want to dump a body in the bay when you have a nice large ocean less than a mile away.

[MissLucas]

This episode really suffered from casting fail - as soon as lady serial killer from Bones (aka Gravedigger) showed up wielding that coffee creamer like Longclaw the jig was up.

Did Watson get a new coat? I can't remember seeing that burgundy coat before - nice change of pace since she wore almost exclusively black and white throughout the episode.

[mojoween]

I was really drawn to the girl who gave them more information on the possible accomplice at the police station.  The actress had a very arresting presence and I wish there was a way to get her in every episode.

Otherwise yeah, it was totally the Gravedigger.  Also we were giggling because it's a long way from a disgraced former prison warden to a kidnapper.

[sidwich]

I have to agree.  This one was telegraphed from a mile away.  I've never seen the actress playing the ex-wife in anything else before, and I knew it was her after her scene.  They just emphasized the "He has NO FRIENDS.  NO FRIENDS.  NONE.  NADA." so much that the only possible answer had to be the ex, and then the whole immigration and pornography elements really sealed it.

[thuganomics85]

Of course Bellick from Prison Break would be keeping women chained up in his apartment!  Wade Williams rarely plays cuddly to say the least.  But, yeah, as soon as I saw that his ex was Deide Lovejoy and the blatant scene of her pouring cream in her coffee in front of Joan, I knew she would end up being involved as well, so that twist wasn't surprising.  Done it by your obvious guest casting again, Elementary!

I'm glad Shinwell is finally starting to listen to Joan more, but his storyline still isn't gripping me like it should be.  I was actually more interested in the actual case this time, and wanted to see more from the victims.  I agree that there should have been more scenes of Sherlock and Joan checking on them and making sure they are as good as they can be. 

At least Sherlock gave Bell some coffee after-all!

I did like the beginning, where you see Sherlock and Gregson wrapping up a case.  I like it when they sometimes just have other cases that are either being finished off, or going on elsewhere, during all of the main ones for the particular episodes.

[WendyCR72]

36 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

But, yeah, as soon as I saw that his ex was Deide Lovejoy

 

I have only seen this actress in a "decent/good person" role twice, both times on Law & Order: Criminal Intent as two separate characters, the latter time as an FBI agent whom I was sure would be corrupt because, well...Deirdre Lovejoy was in the role. LOL!

But she will always be known as the creepy Gravedigger from Bones to me.

[roseha]

Would anyone mind telling me what happened in the second half (spoiler tag okay)?  I missed it.  Thanks, I can't find a summary online anywhere.

[tennisgurl]

Even if I didn't know the actress from a bunch of other stuff (where shes played bad guys in the past) I would suspect it was the ex wife right away. Who else could it be? Although, it was nice to have a more straight forward mystery without 400 twist and turns no one could ever see coming. I figured it all out pretty quickly. Also count me in on wanting to see more of the victims, with Joan and Sherlock talking to them, or reuniting the second woman with her friend from the cruise ship. All the poor main victim had to do was be on a chain, and tied up in a trunk. That must have been a fun casting call. And we hardly got any time with evil ex wife, she was just arrested and done pretty much. Why the divorce if they had their woman kidnapping hobby to bring them together? To cover up? The ending was just really rushed to me. 

I liked Shinwell at first, but lately his story has just become dull, and a distraction from the main characters and the cases. 

I did enjoy things about this episode, and the premise was interesting, it just could have been better. 

[shapeshifter]

Shinwell's plots bug me the same as do reruns of Leave It To Beaver and Dennis The Menace, neither of which I have ever been able to tolerate. It's like a murder mystery, only instead of being scary, it's annoying. I was slightly relieved that Shinwell didn't do the dope deal and was instead working on locks — not that I think lock picking is a suitable skill for an excon to be developing.

[kieyra]

Agree on lack of denouement for the victim.

I was admiring the way they'd set up such an effective hook in the teaser--the collar imagery was very disturbing, the villain was fucking disturbing, and the actress pulled off the fake smile behind haunted eyes very well. I was IMMEDIATELY invested in her story. I was hoping they'd cut to her trying to come up with her own plan for escape. When that didn't happen, I was hoping we'd see her actually being rescued from the collar itself by Sherlock and Joan, ideally with one of them killing the fuck out of that guy in the process.

But no, her rescue was almost an afterthought. 

[juliet73]

This episode started off with so much potential.  Prison Break Bellick plays such a good creep(er). But as soon as the coffee creamer ex wife appeared, it went downhill real quick! The writing became lazy and the story felt very rushed. This could have been made into suspenseful 2 part/2 week episode with more story about the multiple victims, etc.

Less Shinwell.  

I have a feeling this is going to be the last season for this show... 

[Sile]

Good old Chekhov's coffee creamer...

[basil]

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I was looking forward to Sherlock comforting the 2 victims as he did in the episode long ago where he found an imprisoned Russian bride in the basement. I love that more tender part of Sherlock

 

I expected that as well. One of my favorite moments in the series - of course, another was when he stabbed Moran, so go figure.

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As someone who spent his formative years in Rockaway Beach - represent! I was glad that they got the subway stops correct. However, there is a Boardwalk that goes all the way to Beach 116th Street (at least). Now, if ex-wife lactose intolerant tossed him into Jamaica Bay, that would be more the view you could have. Of course, you wouldn't want to dump a body in the bay when you have a nice large ocean less than a mile away.

They finally "finished" the "boardwalk" (actually concrete now) after Hurricane Sandy. ELEMENTARY shoots in the Rockaways a lot, without mentioning it. I've worked on a couple of episodes there. I couldn't figure out this location, though I know the peninsula well. Maybe in Far Rockaway, Riis Park or Ft Tilden. Not that many places have so much abandoned/destroyed piers built so closely together, with so many dunes. Breezy Point, maybe? I don't think the peninsula ever gets to be a mile wide. It's only seven miles long.

The Rockaways are known for body dumping, but they usually end up in an abandoned area, not the ocean.

The show? Sure, husband/wife teams sex slave teams do exist, but they are rare. Rarer still is the wife continuing on after killing/losing the husband - in fact, I can't think of a single case. I'm a bit baffled as to why the wife needed a new slave.

[Texasmom1970]

Like everyone else the blatant focus of the coffee creamer was too much. It was like here from the moronic viewers here is a clue so you feel smart.

I seriously want that back coat with the white buttons Lucy wore at the start of the episode. I actually loved everything she wore, not that I could afford any of it though!

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Shinwell's plots bug me the same as do reruns of Leave It To Beaver and Dennis The Menace, neither of which I have ever been able to tolerate. It's like a murder mystery, only instead of being scary, it's annoying. I was slightly relieved that Shinwell didn't do the dope deal and was instead working on locks — not that I think lock picking is a suitable skill for an excon to be developing.

I wondered if that skill might be a parole violation. It's not exactly legal to pick locks, for all that Sherlock and Joan employ it often.

 

9 hours ago, kieyra said:

I was hoping they'd cut to her trying to come up with her own plan for escape.

Me too. It was a missed opportunity, in my opinion.

[Loandbehold]

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They finally "finished" the "boardwalk" (actually concrete now) after Hurricane Sandy. ELEMENTARY shoots in the Rockaways a lot, without mentioning it. I've worked on a couple of episodes there. I couldn't figure out this location, though I know the peninsula well. Maybe in Far Rockaway, Riis Park or Ft Tilden. Not that many places have so much abandoned/destroyed piers built so closely together, with so many dunes. Breezy Point, maybe? I don't think the peninsula ever gets to be a mile wide. It's only seven miles long.

They finished "rebuilding" the boardwalk recently. But, the boardwalk has been there for many decades, yet there was no evidence of it in the shot. I don't remember how much further than 116th Street the boardwalk goes. Certainly not as far as Breezy Point or even Neponsit. It does go far towards Far Rockaway. Jamaica Bay may not be one mile from the Atlantic at that point on the penisula (width of the peninsula not its length), but it has never had a boardwalk and you can't see the Atlantic from the ground at Jamaica Bay. You're right that they most likely filmed the scene  far above 116th.

[withanaich]

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I'm a bit baffled as to why the wife needed a new slave.

It seems that since they got divorced, they each continued with their little hobby, separately. His and hers slaves, if you will. She didn't want to be around him anymore, so they wouldn't be sharing captives anymore either. The only reason they were back in contact is that he thought he was going to get busted, so he called his ex-wife to go "take care of" the woman he was keeping captive. He did it because there was no one else he could call (no friends, remember?) and she agreed to help even though she hated him (there are lots of reasons people break up even when they have stuff in common) because if she refused, she knew he could reveal that she was doing the same shit he was, just somewhere else with a different victim. 

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I wondered if that skill might be a parole violation. It's not exactly legal to pick locks, for all that Sherlock and Joan employ it often.

True enough. Shinwell associating with known criminals is also technically a parole violation, though, but the fact that he's doing it as a registered informant apparently gives him an out. I wonder if it wouldn't be the same for him picking locks. I think (especially given the vagaries of TV writing), that Shinwell has a get-out-of-jail-free card for anything up to (and maybe including) murder, as long as it occurs while he's on the job, so to speak. 

[iMonrey]

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I have to agree.  This one was telegraphed from a mile away.  I've never seen the actress playing the ex-wife in anything else before, and I knew it was her after her scene.  They just emphasized the "He has NO FRIENDS.  NO FRIENDS.  NONE.  NADA." so much that the only possible answer had to be the ex, and then the whole immigration and pornography elements really sealed it.

I recognized her from American Gothic. But it was also just too convenient that she worked for the department in charge of immigration.

On another note, I'm not a fan of Marcus' new hairstyle.

[withanaich]

Heh. I hadn't noticed, but my husband glanced at the TV while I was watching and asked me if Marcus had just gotten out of bed.

[snarktini]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

But it was also just too convenient that she worked for the department in charge of immigration.

This seems logical, actually. Someone who wants to abuse people would want to put themselves in a position to easily find victims. She chose a job to enable her sickness. (Or that of her ex, depending who started it. I tend to think she was warped from the start. To me it's more plausible she chose this career for this purpose, rather than she worked to help immigrants and then switched sides. Unless she actually disliked immigrants along and viewed an ICE job as a way to control them? Who knows. They didn't give us a lot to work with.)

Even though they divorced, I thought they were still be in contact for slave purposes. She had a burner phone that she was willing to answer, which didn't seem one-off. Their divorce was 6 years ago and he kidnapped the young woman 5 years ago, so unless he still had access to the database (they said he didn't) the ex wife may have helped him. 

FWIW, I don't mind the addition of Shinwell. Not in love with his character, but the story holds some interest for me.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

. . . On another note, I'm not a fan of Marcus' new hairstyle.

According to people surveyed on Family Feud, short men do things like that with their hair to make them look taller. As a short person myself, I'm okay with it.

[basil]

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They finished "rebuilding" the boardwalk recently. But, the boardwalk has been there for many decades, yet there was no evidence of it in the shot. I don't remember how much further than 116th Street the boardwalk goes. Certainly not as far as Breezy Point or even Neponsit. It does go far towards Far Rockaway.

I'm pretty sure they rebuilt it back to Beach 123rd st, where it ended pre-Sandy. I believe it goes all the way down to Far Rockaway in the easterly direction. It does pick up again east of Riis Park (around Beach 150th or so) and continues past it and the golf course. Beyond that is Ft Tilden and the wooded areas where bodies tend to be found IRL. 

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Jamaica Bay may not be one mile from the Atlantic at that point on the penisula (width of the peninsula not its length), but it has never had a boardwalk and you can't see the Atlantic from the ground at Jamaica Bay. You're right that they most likely filmed the scene  far above 116th.

No boardwalk on the Jamaica Bay side, true. There's only room for a sidewalk because of Beach Channel Drive. Last times I worked for them was on 110th st, and another place way out in Far Rockaway. Also, I think one of the final scenes in Paint It Black was filmed under the elevated train around 108th. I've been in and out of the Rockaways since the 70s. Hell, I remember the long-gone amusement park Playland. You actually can see the Atlantic from the Jamaica Bay wall in a few places, and it's so narrow that during huge storms, like Sandy and an unnamed Nor'Easter in the 90s where the ocean met the bay....but back to the show.

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It seems that since they got divorced, they each continued with their little hobby, separately. His and hers slaves, if you will. She didn't want to be around him anymore, so they wouldn't be sharing captives anymore either. The only reason they were back in contact is that he thought he was going to get busted, so he called his ex-wife to go "take care of" the woman he was keeping captive. He did it because there was no one else he could call (no friends, remember?) and she agreed to help even though she hated him (there are lots of reasons people break up even when they have stuff in common) because if she refused, she knew he could reveal that she was doing the same shit he was, just somewhere else with a different victim

.

I didn't see any indication that the wife was keeping slaves, and that's so rare for a woman to keep sex slaves without a male partner (to my knowledge, anyway), but eh, fiction, and ELEMENTARY's mysteries have never been a strong point for me.

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At least Sherlock gave Bell some coffee after-all!

This is why I watch the show, little moments like that. I think Sherlock was just jerking Marcus around, and I loved that not a word was spoken nor even a look exchanged after Sherlock handed him the cup.

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Shinwell associating with known criminals is also technically a parole violation, though, but the fact that he's doing it as a registered informant apparently gives him an out. I wonder if it wouldn't be the same for him picking locks. I think (especially given the vagaries of TV writing), that Shinwell has a get-out-of-jail-free card for anything up to (and maybe including) murder, as long as it occurs while he's on the job, so to speak.

He may get away with associating with known criminals during specific cases, but not even Joan and Sherlock are allowed to use lockpicks. They've always denied doing so, saying that they've "found doors unlocked", with the exception of times when they pretty much had to admit it. Even then, they'll cover by claiming they heard a baby in danger or something like that. Even in this episode, Sherlock tells the Captain "Let's just say I have a working knowledge of [the suspect's] doorlocks and leave it at that, shall we?". Shinwell gets caught lockpicking, I don't think he'll get the nudge/wink they do. The Captain barely tolerates it from them. I doubt Shinwell would fare as well.

Edited January 11, 2017 by basil

[rubyred]

I don't know, man. This Shinwell thing is like the slowest burning slow burn EVER. He's still there even though he contributes next to nothing to the plots, so I have to think they're building up to something. It better be worth it, because the show grinds to a halt --there's just no energy -- in every Shinwell scene. This is particularly glaring in Watson/Shinwell scenes, because LL plays Watson so low-key she's practically somnambulant. This is not a criticism, btw, I like Liu's take on the character and her understated performance. And NE does a good job inhabiting Shinwell as well. But the scenes completely lack urgency. Make me care, show. 

[theatremouse]

19 hours ago, basil said:

Sure, husband/wife teams sex slave teams do exist, but they are rare. Rarer still is the wife continuing on after killing/losing the husband - in fact, I can't think of a single case. I'm a bit baffled as to why the wife needed a new slave.

She didn't. He took the one by the beach before they caught him, and the call to her was to make sure the wife took care of the one at the beach, who was new. I didn't get the impression they'd permanently continued helping each other since the divorce, just that he knew he could trust her to assist if he thought he would be kept away for a while. But that she knows his hidey spots. It was just a misdirect that the call was not about the same person we saw him with in the opening scene, and not the person the main characters were looking for. But they were both him, as far as the scenes read to me. Hence the coffee creamer being the giveaway: because suddenly beach-captive had soymilk, because the wife suddenly bought groceries. It wasn't the wife all along with either of the two. She only put the other one in the trunk to tie up loose ends.

[basil]

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She didn't. He took the one by the beach before they caught him, and the call to her was to make sure the wife took care of the one at the beach, who was new. It was just a misdirect that the call was not about the same person we saw him with in the opening scene, and not the person the main characters were looking for. But they were both him, as far as the scenes read to me. Hence the coffee creamer being the giveaway: because suddenly beach-captive had soymilk, because the wife suddenly bought groceries. It wasn't the wife all along with either of the two. She only put the other one in the trunk to tie up loose ends. 

Ok, I have to watch this again. How many places did this guy have? There was the modern(ish)-looking one where we see the first slave with the collar. The other shabby-looking place Holmes and Watson broke into that no one had been in for a week, and the beach house. Maybe the first two were the same place, but if so, where was the original slave when Holmes and Watson broke in? Why did the guy get a new sex slave (a slave the new slave never saw), and where had the earlier one been kept before she was put in the trunk? Why did the wife help instead of letting her husband hang for his crimes rather than take the risk of killing him and getting caught herself with the slaves? My head hurts.

Also, I doubt anyone else cares, but the beach scenes were almost certainly shot at Ft Tilden in Rockaway Park, the west end of the peninsula. When you see Joan walking up the path to the beach, she's actually on a road that leads west to an old elevated military installation, Battery Harris East, which is a great hike and place to birdwatch from. You can see the Atlantic, Jamaica Bay, NYC and NJ. It's a beautiful 360 degree view. I recognized the building behind her, known as T-7. When they are on the beach, you can see T-7's roof behind them. A lot of shows film there for the same reason bodies get dumped there -  because it is fairly desolate.

[theatremouse]

1 hour ago, basil said:

Ok, I have to watch this again. How many places did this guy have?

Why did the wife help instead of letting her husband hang for his crimes rather than take the risk of killing him and getting caught herself with the slaves? My head hurts.

Two different places for keeping kidnapped people:

1) first-scene house with woman-who-was-in-trunk was presumably house-he-got-in-the-divorce since when the ex-wife was arrested she said something like "he left it in my name didn't he?" ie used to be their house.

2) beach house with woman-they-weren't-looking-for-but-yay-rescued.

Third place: apartment where he presumably actually lives and Holmes and Watson broke into.

No idea how he can afford three residences, but that's what they showed.

Why did she help? Because she participated in a way that suggests she's just as psycho, not some sort of abused-also-so-went-along-with-it sitch.

[MisterGlass]

On 1/10/2017 at 4:31 PM, shapeshifter said:

On 1/10/2017 at 1:05 PM, iMonrey said:

. . . On another note, I'm not a fan of Marcus' new hairstyle.

According to people surveyed on Family Feud, short men do things like that with their hair to make them look taller. As a short person myself, I'm okay with it.

Every time I see him lately all I think of is the 80's.

[basil]

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I was really drawn to the girl who gave them more information on the possible accomplice at the police station.  The actress had a very arresting presence and I wish there was a way to get her in every episode

That would have been Ruthie Ann Miles, who won a Tony for her portrayal of Lady Thiang in The King and I on Broadway last year (year before last?) Great actress, glorious voice.

23 hours ago, theatremouse said:

Why did she [the ex-wife] help? Because she participated in a way that suggests she's just as psycho, not some sort of abused-also-so-went-along-with-it sitch.

Yeah, I guess I'm just going to have to handwave that whole thing. I may have missed it, but I didn't see any evidence that she ever engaged with the slaves. I'm not even certain she could be proven to procure them (he found the second one on his own when he gave her a ride in the rain). Statistically, women just don't keep sex slaves. She didn't seem to have any of her own. If she had ignored his call to "take care of" the slaves, they either would have died and he might have gotten away with it, or more likely Sherlock would have gotten him. If the ex-wife had stayed out of it, what would they have had on her?

Now she's pretty much on the hook for her husband's murder, two counts of kidnapping and Christ knows what else.

[possibilities]

If she wasn't in on it, why wouldn't she just go to the police and disclose that her ex was holding the women? They wouldn't have died; the cops would have rescued them sooner. The idea that she would show up to feed and transport them rather than free them, strikes me as proof of her guilt, not of her innocence.

Edited January 12, 2017 by possibilities

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, basil said:

That would have been Ruthie Ann Miles, who won a Tony for her portrayal of Lady Thiang in The King and I on Broadway last year (year before last?) Great actress, glorious voice.

Yeah, I guess I'm just going to have to handwave that whole thing. I may have missed it, but I didn't see any evidence that she ever engaged with the slaves. I'm not even certain she could be proven to procure them (he found the second one on his own when he gave her a ride in the rain). Statistically, women just don't keep sex slaves. She didn't seem to have any of her own. If she had ignored his call to "take care of" the slaves, they either would have died and he might have gotten away with it, or more likely Sherlock would have gotten him. If the ex-wife had stayed out of it, what would they have had on her?

Now she's pretty much on the hook for her husband's murder, two counts of kidnapping and Christ knows what else.

Maybe she liked to watch.  Plenty of people are fans of football even though they don't actively play it.  Maybe the slaves' fear and desperation was a turn-on for her.  Maybe at the end she "got" to kill them.  Then maybe she eventually got tired or bored by the whole thing.  Tired and bored of him.  Maybe she got high enough in ICE that could satisfy her "needs" in subtler ways by abusing her position in dealing with frightened, vulnerable people.

Of course the family that slaves together kind of needs to stay together on some level.  She can't afford for him to get caught because she knows he'd rat her out for a lighter sentence.  So it's best to just lead the cops to the victim she knows hasn't seen her, kill her kidnapping ex and get rid of his other slave, one who may have seen her, or one who her ex-hubby might have told about her.

[LisaM]

I was ready for Joan to become a captive - same ethnicity, etc... So glad that they did not go in that direction.

I'm not a fan of this type of storyline so I wasn't thrilled plus - the creamer.

I prefer Kitty to Shinwell.

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

If she wasn't in on it, why wouldn't she just go to the police and disclose that her ex was holding the women? They wouldn't have died; the cops would have rescued them sooner. The idea that she would show up to feed and transport them rather than free them, strikes me as proof of her guilt, not of her innocence.

It seems to me I remember her saying something about her husband having something on her - mutually assured destruction. Though I don't recall what.

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, LisaM said:

I was ready for Joan to become a captive - same ethnicity, etc... So glad that they did not go in that direction.

I'm not a fan of this type of storyline so I wasn't thrilled plus - the creamer.

I prefer Kitty to Shinwell.

I never thought Joan would be a captive.  A lesser show would do that but not this one.  Also Joan is a former surgeon who has been trained by Sherlock Holmes.  She probably fourteen ways to kill a dude using her pinky.

I really miss Kitty.  I wonder what Ophelia Lovibond is doing these days.  Off to IMDB to check.

[PaulaO]

I have lost interest in this show, and have watched only 1 or 2 episodes this season.  The Shinwell story is not necessary and it's clear he's to replace Alfredo (not that anyone can replace Alfredo). And I won't watch any show that features people being held hostage.  The cases involving technology/math, etc. are much more interesting.

[sinkwriter]

I'm glad they didn't make Joan a captive, but it did briefly cross my mind as a worry that they'd go there. I'm relieved this show doesn't go to the places that standard programs usually do because they feel they have to stir up melodrama.

However, on a side note, I would like them to step up the emotional connection a bit, somehow. Because I feel like lately the show has been coasting along without really giving me something to connect to as a viewer. I really liked the Kitty storyline (surprising, because at first I was very wary), I loved the first couple of seasons, but I feel like the show has gotten a bit complacent and boring. They don't need to resort to cheesy antics or melodrama, they don't need to orchestrate romance between the leads, or anything like that -- I'm so glad this show has never really done that and has kept to the assurance that Holmes and Watson will not be romantically involved (that's a huge feat, in an arena where it seems every show tries to force a romance for its leading characters, whether it's believable or not). But I would like to see them work a little harder to make emotional connections in their cases and stories.

Example: as someone else mentioned in this thread, we connected immediately with the poor young woman who was being held captive, but then all we see of her is that end trunk scene where Captain Gregson pulls her out and that's it? Why didn't they have any sort of emotional follow-through for her character and in connection with Sherlock who was the first one to figure out something weird was going on with the husband who took her? That would have made this episode much more resonant.

Also I feel that Sherlock and Joan have been living separate lives this season, which bores me because I connect most to the show through their camaraderie, their friction, their humor with one another, and the way they work and live together. 

[mahree]

14 hours ago, basil said:

Quote

I was really drawn to the girl who gave them more information on the possible accomplice at the police station.  The actress had a very arresting presence and I wish there was a way to get her in every episode

 

That would have been Ruthie Ann Miles, who won a Tony for her portrayal of Lady Thiang in The King and I on Broadway last year (year before last?) Great actress, glorious voice.

 

And she was AMAZING in The Americans