S33.E13: I'm Going For A Million Bucks / S33.E14: Reunion

[Negritude]

.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Negritude

[ghoulina]

51 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

During FTC, I remember Bret heavily rolling his eyes during one of Ken's answers.  Not sure what the animosity was there, but I don't understand the basis for it.  It made Bret come off like a jerk.

Brett gets way too OTT for me. He was comparing not getting David out of the game earlier to not getting Osama Bin Laden when they knew where he was. David...Osama...same thing. He's just a bit much. Ken DID get David out. They're just pissed that David wasn't evicted before THEM. But everyone has to play their OWN game. 

[Negritude]

8 hours ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

Ugh yes. If possible, Zeke annoyed me more than Chris with that stupid question. First of all, what about this season was "revolutionary" - I personally saw the same style and type of game I have always seen.  And Hannah, I love you, but stop trying to make "trust cluster" a thing. 

Maybe it's my love for Ken talking but it just seemed like another way to bring Ken down. And by the way, Zeke, on some seasons, a player like Ken who succeeded in challenges, was very loyal but did the right move when he needed to (getting David out) might have given him a win.  And hell, maybe in some ways playing the old school game in a new school season is somewhat revolutionary...

Yes! All that talk about Ken's game being "old school," tell that to Colby lol. That's just one way to play, they were talking like it's been THE way to play. I don't remember how much Hatch fished or chopped wood, but he damn sure wasn't some stoic, loyal "provider." But these kids are going to come in and revolutionize the game you guys! Instead of alliances, there'll be trust clusters! GTFOH. Give me a break. Its the same shhh, different island, every season.  

Edited December 15, 2016 by Negritude

[peachmangosteen]

10 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I don't know how Zeke could've been so undervalued by himself.  I think it takes some confidence to graduate from Harvard, lose as much weight as he has and say you're good at pretty much everything you try.  Wasn't that what he said in the game?  I like him a lot, don't get me wrong.  But I roll my eyes a bit at the PSA endings they tack on.  

Yea really. The show trying to shoehorn Zeke in as one of the 'awkward, not-confident people' was kind of hilarious. I was surprised Zeke played along since, like you said, he had said literally the exact opposite multiple times during the season. The whole thing was so strange, but funny.

[Wings]

If I were faced with voting for those F3, Adam would have gotten my vote and not because of his mom.   Ken was cold and aloof and Hannah, though she mentioned her 'revolutionary' awakening, was still viewed as a weal player who wasn't worthy of the win.   Not saying she was but rather how she was seen. 

I was impressed with Jay's exit attitude.  In general most of them were upbeat and pleasant group.  Even with that I was not all that into this season but it left me with a pleasant taste in my mouth,  even with mom dying.  It was a poignant story and I liked how Adam mentioned that when he rose to an observer position he could see that.  

13 minutes ago, candall said:

I'm no good with past Survivor details, but other than Hasselbeck discovering her celiac condition, I don't remember anyone who came out the other side of this thing with many benefits other than bank, maybe some new pals, a certain celebrity status and of course, the value of the experience itself.

 Cochran was a success story.  Offered a job as a TV sitcom writer immediately after the show aired!   Hasselbeck also got a host position on The View which is not shabby.  

[fishcakes]

8 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

He was comparing not getting David out of the game earlier to not getting Osama Bin Laden when they knew where he was. David...Osama...same thing. He's just a bit much.

Right? As soon as he said "bin Laden," I was like, "no no no don't go there ahhhh no he went there."

[Alapaki]

47 minutes ago, backformore said:

I really hated how Bret kept referring to some other players as "the crazies".  It made him look more and more like the high school bully who picks on the smaller, nerdier kids. 

I hated the theme this season - Gen X vs Millenials - and how Jeff, all season, kept bringing it back to that.  People are different, I  hate to be stereotyped as being the same as everyone else in my generation, rather than an individual.   After the first few episodes, I didn't think the generation thing played as big a role as the producers intended. 

That was part of Bret's bullshit theory that everyone else's optimal strategy should've been "help Bret win".

As far as the "theme".  They're always just bullshit that Probst shovels to self-validate the phony myth that the show is some Grand Social Experiment that yields Profound Observations.

However . . . . 

18 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I don't know how Zeke could've been so undervalued by himself.  I think it takes some confidence to graduate from Harvard, lose as much weight as he has and say you're good at pretty much everything you try.  Wasn't that what he said in the game?  I like him a lot, don't get me wrong.  But I roll my eyes a bit at the PSA endings they tack on.  

I don't think it's at all remarkable when someone like Hannah or Dave or Cirie comes in afraid of the experience and exits at day 39 with the realization that, no, we don't die from living lean outdoors for 5 weeks.  That's a very normal thing I think all of them out there probably experience.    

I'm going to choose to tell myself (because it's the only way to stop my eyes from rolling) that Zeke was working TPTB's knobs bigtime the whole time he was out there by knowingly feeding them sounds bites that were guaranteed to parlay him to maximum screen time and invites back.

In a way, it's kind of funny that TPTB are that easily manipulable by players who know how to play that meta-game.

[cooksdelight]

I keep thinking back to Adam giving his precious immunity idol to save Hannah. I suppose he thought that would buy him some loyalty down the road, but boy... she would not bend.

[Alapaki]

Quote

He was comparing not getting David out of the game earlier to not getting Osama Bin Laden when they knew where he was. David...Osama...same thing. He's just a bit much.

Bret also strikes me as the type of guy who, growing up, would insist "I'm not gay, but all these guys who suck my dick are!"

[Haleth]

I thought that was really offensive too.  However the eye rolling may have been editors' shenanigans. I take quick cuts for jurors' reactions with a grain of salt. 

[Sarahsmile416]

11 minutes ago, wings707 said:

If I were faced with voting for those F3, Adam would have gotten my vote and not because of his mom.   Ken was cold and aloof and Hannah, though she mentioned her 'revolutionary' awakening, was still viewed as a weal player who wasn't worthy of the win.   Not saying she was but rather how she was seen. 

I was impressed with Jay's exit attitude.  In general most of them were upbeat and pleasant group.  Even with that I was not all that into this season but it left me with a pleasant taste in my mouth,  even with mom dying.  It was a poignant story and I liked how Adam mentioned that when he rose to an observer position he could see that.  

 Cochran was a success story.  Offered a job as a TV sitcom writer immediately after the show aired!   Hasselbeck also got a host position on The View which is not shabby.  

And this is exactly what introverts struggle with, I think. The perception that one is cold and aloof when in reality we are just sometimes literally anxious about having to engage in a social situation.

Though honestly I think what Ken struggles with is not just social anxiety and introversion but also the fact that he is very much an old soul and probably comes off as very awkward in person. 

Edited December 15, 2016 by Sarahsmile416

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

Zeke was working TPTB's knobs bigtime the whole time he was out there by knowingly feeding them sounds bites that were guaranteed to parlay him to maximum screen time and invites back.

I agree he was following direction well and

Spoiler

it worked since he played a second season this past summer already, from what I read here, which was solely the cast spoiler.  Who else wished Michelle had gone back over either of these two?  

Edited December 15, 2016 by Guest

[mythoughtis]

I think Chris credited Adam for changing Kens mind about David because of Adams argument at tribal council. Adam pointed out that winning the game for his daughter trumped loyalty. Up until that minute Ken had discounted Hannah and her fumbling attempt at persuasion. I do not think Ken would have voted David out otherwise. 

[Apocalypso]

How many idols were used in this game?  I lost count but it sure seemed like the most ever.  That last one that Adam found, so late in the game, as well as Ken's advantage, really irked me. 

Grumpy that Adam got an undeserved blowout.  However, otherwise happy - the season was great, and the reunion show was much better handled than most other recent seasons.

[Negritude]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

We had that discussion here during the show, too.  My teen daughter asked, 'Ken is a single father?  Seriously?  How?'  I said, 'Well, technically your dad is also a single father.  Any unmarried man with a kid is.'  Her:  'No.  That's not a single father'.  She was less impressed when I told her Ken didn't know he was a father til the kid was four, so she must have a very involved mother in the picture.  

Funny aside:  My daughter had to write a short 'who I'm thankful for' paper on Thanksgiving in English.  One of the sentences is:  "(My mom) basically raised me herself, but it never felt like one of those single mother sob stories like on American Idol."  Heh.  

Smart kid

[candall]

19 minutes ago, wings707 said:

... 

 Cochran was a success story.  Offered a job as a TV sitcom writer immediately after the show aired!   Hasselbeck also got a host position on The View which is not shabby.  

Yeah, I should have stuck with describing that benefit as "exposure on network television" instead of changing it to "a certain celebrity status."  No question many players have been able to parlay a Survivor appearance into bigger and better things, but I don't think that necessarily correlates into the "personal growth" stuff I was rambling on about.

Edited December 15, 2016 by candall

[blackwing]

2 hours ago, annewithaneee said:

I loved this season! The Final Three didn't represent the savviest of the group, but they were all very palatable personalities, which is a nice change.

My two cents: Adam's tearful admission at FTC was probably planned, especially with the gentle leading question by Jay. I don't think that it was a matter of not being able to hold it back anymore; he knew that his story would be most impactful if it was revealed for the first time right before the vote. Also, had he revealed it to the group earlier on in the season, somebody would have seen this sort of thing coming and seen him as a bigger threat. I'm guessing that was his plan from the jump, probably encouraged by his mom, before he ever stepped foot on the island.

If that's true, I have even more respect for him. If life gave me that kind of kick in the ass, I would be happy to use the reveal strategically. I think there are really obnoxious ways to tug at jury's heart strings, and that wasn't one of them. The tragedy of the situation was real, and the tears were real, so if he planned the timing of the moment, good on him. Well-deserved win.

I fully agree that the tragedy was real, but in my opinion, I can't think of a more tasteless and obnoxious way to tug at heart strings than to reveal that your mother is dying, and it was your mother's dream for you to be on Survivor.

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

During FTC, I remember Bret heavily rolling his eyes during one of Ken's answers.  Not sure what the animosity was there, but I don't understand the basis for it.  It made Bret come off like a jerk.  I too am very surprised that Ken didn't get any votes.  Adam said something to the effect that Ken's style of play might have won him the game in the early seasons of the show, but Survivor has "evolved" since then.  I don't really get how loyalty, providing, and winning crucial immunity challenges doesn't add up to a couple of votes.

Bret IS a jerk.  He was an ass during his questioning, and at some point when Ken was still talking, he just turned away and said something like "thank you, I've made my decision" without even letting Ken respond.  I really despise how Jeff said that Bret revealing he is gay to Zeke was "THE" moment of the season.  What?  Firstly, Bret is an ass.  Secondly, he is a classic bully.  But worst of all, Jeff seemed to imply that finding out that the stereotypical overweight Bahstahn cop is gay is akin to finding a magical unicorn.  It was almost like he was saying "OMG, usually the gay people that casting finds for us are flaming queens like Reed Kelly, his boyfriend Josh, Brice the hairdresser, Brandon from Africa with his limp wristed arrow shooting, Tai, John Carroll and Jeff Varner.  How cool is it that a fat cop can be GAY?!?!?!"

1 hour ago, gator12 said:

Watching some of the Jury speak videos before they voted. Yeah Adam had this thing won before the FTC.

David calling Hannah saving him an irrational move, yeah he wasn't going to vote for her. And he call Ken a goat that wasn't playing the game.

Seems really ungracious by David.  There were multiple times when David was on the block, especially early on, and his only friend was Ken.  Nobody wanted to work with David and it was always Ken who would calmly try to talk to the other side and try to convince them to make a different move.  I would have thought that David would have recognized that Ken made the move he had to make by voting him out.  

[Negritude]

14 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

Bret also strikes me as the type of guy who, growing up, would insist "I'm not gay, but all these guys who suck my dick are!"

Totally, and I also have a far fetched theory about where some of his animosity toward David really comes from. David is probably the type of kid someone like Bret would've picked on just for being perceived as gay. I wouldn't be surprised if David was called sissy or f-g a time or two in his formative years. Bret has probably tried very hard his whole life to prove his manhood and that he's "just one of the guys" while David holds no such pretense. Just a hunch.

[mythoughtis]

I didn't have any problem with Adams' behavior at FTC as it came to Hannah. Yes he interrupted her interrupting of him during questions that were asked of HIM.  She did it often. Did he keep interrupting her during the questions that were asked to HER? 

Adam  betrayed alliances but those  alliances weren't truly relying on him after the first time. Every single one of Hannah's alliances stupidly continued to expect her to be reliable to their side even after rhe number of votes that she flipped on at TC.  That is why she was called a flipper and Adam wasn't. 

Edited December 15, 2016 by mythoughtis

[Rachel RSL]

32 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Up until that minute Ken had discounted Hannah and her fumbling attempt at persuasion. I do not think Ken would have voted David out otherwise. 

I do. People basically have their minds made up about who they're voting for before they go to TC. I can only think of literally one time, off the top of my head, when someone was actually persuaded to change their vote while at TC. (Ciera was persuaded by Hayden)  Hannah most likely did convince him of that before they got to TC.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Rachel RSL

[annewithaneee]

19 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I fully agree that the tragedy was real, but in my opinion, I can't think of a more tasteless and obnoxious way to tug at heart strings than to reveal that your mother is dying, and it was your mother's dream for you to be on Survivor.

Fair enough. Usually I take a really cynical view of these kinds of things. But they auditioned, and seemed to get decently far in the casting process, to get on the show together. I think that means it's something they legitimately both loved, and wanted to be a part of -- it sounds silly on paper, because it's a reality show. And how tearful he was, it could easily be read as overwrought, melodramatic, maybe even bad acting. 

For me, if I imagine myself in this scenario (and it's admittedly easy for me to do, because buddy-watching reality competition shows is one of the bonds I have with my own mom, and we would freak out if I got on one of those shows): life's handed your mom this really shitty diagnosis'; mom pushes you to go on the show and not wait anyway because 1.) carpe diem and other cliches and 2.) mom's got her husband and other son to care for and support her and probably doesn't want to put another person she loves through months of end-of-life suffering when you could be doing this thing you both love instead; you get on the show and know that telling everyone about the sad news back home might paint a target on your back (Jason from just last season with his daughter who has Autism and astronomical care-related bills...not the reason he went out, but Cydney was on high alert once his sad story was out there); at the same time, you know that a well-timed FTC reveal of that sad, very true story might run up the score on your votes and if that fucker lung cancer helps secure you the win, use it. It just didn't feel exploitative to me. If he and his mom were superfans, they'd probably talked about it and he had her blessing. He couldn't change the reality of what was going on back home, and there was no point in concealing it from the show entirely...if you're going to put it out there, time it correctly.

[Alapaki]

39 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I fully agree that the tragedy was real, but in my opinion, I can't think of a more tasteless and obnoxious way to tug at heart strings than to reveal that your mother is dying, and it was your mother's dream for you to be on Survivor.

As I understand it, the median life expectancy after diagnosis with Stage IV lung cancer is about 8 months.  Of course there are a lot of caveats and some people respond much better to treatment than others.  But Adam had every reason to assume that he had less than 12 months left with his mother.  Jeff said the show offered him the option of having every one of those months with her, and competing on a future season.  He could've had that time with his mother and given his mother the satisfaction of knowing that he'd be on the show.  

Instead, he chose to trade away more than a month of that limited, precious time, in order to on this season.  He had to assume that his mother would most likely never make it to the point where this season began to air and she could actually see him competing on Survivor.  And there was a non-trivial chance that she would not live to see him return for filming.

As the saying goes, "life is tragedy" (and I just recently lost a parent, so I know how it feels).  But Adam made a conscious decision.  And one has to wonder how much of his angst/fear/sorrow/etc. was not just from the fact that his mother had an advanced-stage terminal illness, but the fact that she had an advanced-stage terminal illness and he was nearly half-a-world away?  And the latter was completely his own doing, when he knew he would have the opportunity to spend his mother's final days/weeks with her and still get to compete.

[Guest]

I would choose 'play now and my mother will have a chance of seeing me play or at least seeing me come home and tell her I won' over 'play after she's gone, in the hopes the offer still stands, and she'll never know if I ever did get the chance.'

51 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

I didn't have any problem with Adams' behavior at FTC as it came to Hannah. Yes he interrupted her interrupting of him during questions that were asked of HIM.  She did it often. Did he keep interrupting her during the questions that were asked to HER? 

I wondered if Hannah's interrupting was doing her no favors.  We didn't see this but the jury would've-- Jeff or a PA was probably out of the shot trying to get them to stop that shit and speak only when it was their question.  We saw Ken glance pleadingly in Jeff's direction when he wanted to jump in and defend himself once, and Ken kept quiet after that glance, which I took to mean he was playing by the rules while Hannah wasn't. 

[Special K]

Further to the who-is-a-real-introvert discussion:  Introversion is not the same thing as social anxiety or social awkwardness.  It's not really about how other people view you (life of the party, wallflower, etc.).  It's about how being with other people/in social settings makes you feel.  Introverts, even if they are sometimes the "life of the party," feel worn out and diminished by social interactions, while extroverts are energized and fueled by socializing.  Introverts are nourished by being alone, and extroverts usually dislike too much alone time. It's often about where you feel most "yourself."

[snarts]

I enjoyed the season but hated the theme.   Thankfully, after the merge, Jeff was the only one who mentioned it.  Well, except for the juror with the ridiculously stupid question.

One thing that I did learn about millennials (which I should have already known from watching Are you the One) is that they throw out the "I love you"s to everyone.  Makes my cynic Gen X ass very uncomfortable.

I will miss Ken as weekly eye candy.  I do wonder what the vote count would've been had he kept David.  Would it have been the same landslide?

[Boilergal]

2 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

That's a HUGE assumption to make without any basis. Ken never showed any hint of homophobia or bigotry and almost everybody has said in their exit interviews that he was a nice guy.

I'm not saying he went on a big homophobic rant or anything like that - but sometimes your views come out in innocent conversation with someone that you perceive to have the same standards.  Something like - "I knew when I saw that shirt that Zeke was our token gay guy"  or "usually the gay guys are the least athletic".    Since we only see minutes of what happens - and days of conversation are left on the cutting room floor - I wonder if there was something that was said in innocence that left Bret feeling judged by Ken.  

[Rachel RSL]

Could be. Just going by the, admittedly heavily edited, versions of their personalities that we saw on the show though, I'm more likely to believe that Bret is just kind of a dick.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Rachel RSL

[JudyObscure]

I think Bret came off as a jerk to Hannah, because he is one.  He consistently eye rolled the other people, ridiculed them and called them crazies.  Last night in the build up to what Jeff called the best moment of the season we have Bret saying that he didn't like Zeke at first because of his clothes.  His clothes!  Which just reinforces my belief that he only told Zeke he was gay to forge a false friendship for strategic reasons.  Yes, I know Bret really is gay, but I don't think that matters in this instance.

1 hour ago, fishcakes said:

Oh, but what I didn't like was when Jeff was telling the audience that Adam's mom had lung cancer even though she was never a smoker. I know there's a stigma attached to lung cancer because people think that only smokers get it, but it doesn't help to erase that stigma when people take pains to point out which people are the innocent victims of lung cancer and not the people brought it on themselves because they were dirty smokers. It's not only small-hearted, but the result is that all victims of lung cancer are hurt because there are fewer charitable dollars going to research.

I know.  I've always hated the "Did he smoke?" question about cancer.  I've heard  smoking used as a reason  to  withhold sympathy for all sorts of cancer.  "She had pancreatic cancer?  Well, she was a smoker you know."   People don't get all judgmental about heart disease victims and say, 'Well he ate bacon, you know." Actually none of it makes sense to me.  The yearly big charity drives for the same two or three diseases and never, ever  a mention for many, many  others. 

[Lantern7]

11 hours ago, MattDuffysCat said:

And Westworld isn't coming back until 2018 (damn you HBO, really). 

There could have been a crossover. "Before we leave, I can reveal to you that Hannah was a host the entire time." "Wait . . . I'm a host? I'm not human?!?" "No, you are not." "But . . . what about my neuroses? What about my attraction to Ken?" "Ken broke your programming. He does that. [Probst adjusts himself]"

Reading Kim's recap . . . I think David slipped in one of the letters he got when he found an idol. And I forgot about Bob Crowley. Then again, who hasn't?

[azshadowwalker]

Just dropped by to see who won, since I checked out as soon as Jay left. That was the final three? Yuck. I guess Adam won by default. Still despise him, though. What a worthless fucking season. 

[blackwing]

15 minutes ago, Boilergal said:

I'm not saying he went on a big homophobic rant or anything like that - but sometimes your views come out in innocent conversation with someone that you perceive to have the same standards.  Something like - "I knew when I saw that shirt that Zeke was our token gay guy"  or "usually the gay guys are the least athletic".    Since we only see minutes of what happens - and days of conversation are left on the cutting room floor - I wonder if there was something that was said in innocence that left Bret feeling judged by Ken.  

As long as we are making up hypothetical conversations, couldn't you just as easily say that Bret didn't like Ken because Bret came on to Ken and Ken rejected him?  Or that Bret asked Ken to let him see his junk and Ken refused?  There's been absolutely no evidence for that of course, just as there is zero evidence that Ken is homophobic.

The easiest answer is that Bret looked like a jerk because he actually IS a jerk.  And given some of his behaviour that we actually DID see aired (his treatment of David at the tribal council where he and Zeke asked him if he was going to cry, or something like that).... it seems the most likely reason.

[brilliantbreakfast]

6 hours ago, thejuicer said:

I thought David came across very classy. No bitterness, no snarky juror comments, even hugged Ken on his way out. He seems like a wonderful human being.

Watch his Ponderosa video and you'll forget all about Ken.  THIS is the guy you want to be with.  (:-D)

[Special K]

Just now, blackwing said:

 

The easiest answer is that Bret looked like a jerk because he actually IS a jerk. 

This.  He's a jerk.  And a tool.

[Boilergal]

2 minutes ago, blackwing said:

The easiest answer is that Bret looked like a jerk because he actually IS a jerk.  And given some of his behaviour that we actually DID see aired (his treatment of David at the tribal council where he and Zeke asked him if he was going to cry, or something like that).... it seems the most likely reason.

Or that Ken comes off as a long winded, self righteous, judgmental pompous ass and Bret did appreciate the lectures. -- Per Will's assessment of having to have a conversation with Ken.

[DEL901]

2 hours ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

And this is exactly what introverts struggle with, I think. The perception that one is cold and aloof when in reality we are just sometimes literally anxious about having to engage in a social situation.

Though honestly I think what Ken struggles with is not just social anxiety and introversion but also the fact that he is very much an old soul and probably comes off as very awkward in person. 

I think that with Ken's social anxiety, it made conversations difficult for him.  What came across as lectures was him trying to share something... but if he has anxiety and doesn't seem to make a lot of eye contact, he might not have read the cues that he was going on too long.   And I don't think he is super comfortable with going back and forth with someone... like when he went to Jay about the rumour that he was going to be voted next... as soon as the arguing started, he took off.  That's all probably why he was "living off the grid"... he was more comfortable being alone.  I have to give him props to putting himself out there, going on a show that valued social interaction when he hated it, all because he found out he was a father and wanted to be able to do right by his kid.

Also, he was on the bottom of the Gen X tribe almost from the beginning.  I think that also went back to the fact he didn't act the way they expected him to act based on his looks.  As much as we all admire his face and physique, he probably cursed it many days when people would try to interact with him because of his externals but he couldn't because of his anxiety.  They probably figured he was stuck up.  I'm guessing, repeat guessing, that Bret's feelings at least partially had to do with not being able to be buddy-buddy with him not realizing that Ken had trouble being that way with anyone.

Edited December 15, 2016 by DEL901

[iMonrey]

Quote

 I was shocked that even moron Taylor asked a decent question. 

It sounded very scripted. They used to let the final three give opening statements. Now, the first question just happens to be "Give me an opening statement." Coincidence? The last question also sounded very much like "give me a closing statement." Which gave Adam the perfect opportunity to break down and confess his "secret."

Look - I believe this was a very genuine moment for Adam, but I can't help feel manipulated. I realized weeks ago there had to be some reason why the show was spending so much time on Adam's sad story. And the fifteen minutes they spent on Adam at the reunion show felt overly exploitative. It's a live show - so when they cut to Michaela or some other cast member wiping away their tears, that's no coincidence. That's some director in the control booth yelling "Go to camera 3 and show Michaela crying." Cameras are trained on Adam's family the whole time in order to catch the best reaction shots.

While Adam may or may not have used his mother's illness to his advantage, the show most certainly did. They milked it for all it was worth. 

Quote

Yet Hannah, who also made moves that ultimately failed, gets literally zero credit for anything and basically gets disrespected by a bunch of people she played better than. Damn, it is hard to be a woman!

I wasn't a big Hannah fan this season, but I thought she did an admirable job at FTC owning and defending her game, and the jury just wasn't having any of it. So I'm forced to agree there was some blatant sexism going on there WRT her game vs. Adam's. 

[anthonyd46]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I saw a lot of sour grapes on that jury.  Many of them looked and acted very bitter.  It seemed to be all directed at Ken.

I think this is another case of bitter jurors Chris and Bret just not being able to accept Ken beat them. They didn't like the guy from the beginning. Neither did Jessica or Sunday, but Jessica warmed up to him when he told her the correct information and she didn't believe him. Overall I think it just let a bad taste in Chris and Bret's mouth and they had power over some jurors for sure.

[Charlesman]

19 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Reading Kim's recap . . . I think David slipped in one of the letters he got when he found an idol. And I forgot about Bob Crowley. Then again, who hasn't?

Yeah, Kim's recap missed that. Another bone to pick with her! David totally re-used his idol note with his fake one!

[anthonyd46]

2 hours ago, wings707 said:

Cochran was a success story.  Offered a job as a TV sitcom writer immediately after the show aired!   Hasselbeck also got a host position on The View which is not shabby.  

Hunter Ellis has a Tv show or did. Colby hosts top shot. I know none of these shows are the view, but its something.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I think Bret came off as a jerk to Hannah, because he is one.  He consistently eye rolled the other people, ridiculed them and called them crazies.  Last night in the build up to what Jeff called the best moment of the season we have Bret saying that he didn't like Zeke at first because of his clothes.  His clothes!  Which just reinforces my belief that he only told Zeke he was gay to forge a false friendship for strategic reasons.  Yes, I know Bret really is gay, but I don't think that matters in this instance.

Bret never bothered me.  I eyeroll at these people, too, and I call my coworkers crazies behind their backs, and for sure would in a confessional situation.  It's just shorthand for 'they don't make decisions the same way I do'.  I didn't hear that Bret disliked Zeke for his clothes, just that he didn't think he'd have much in common with him or want to work with him since he's a different kind of guy.  Though I do think he outed himself to Zeke for game purposes.  But I thought it was smart.  And I think they truly were friends by then.  

Re. the David crying comment at tribal... This cast seems pretty comfortable making fun of each other's secrets and insecurities.  I cringed at Chris calling himself Bret's tv boyfriend or however he put it.  

[Rachel RSL]

21 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

I'm guessing, repeat guessing, that Bret's feelings at least partially had to do with not being able to be buddy-buddy with him not realizing that Ken had trouble being that way with anyone.

I think Bret also tends to pre-judge people in general. When he was having his "coming out" conversation with Zeke, Bret said he didn't plan to hide that he was gay but then he saw that he was on a tribe with "macho Ken and Chris".  I think the last word any of us would use to describe Ken is "macho" but Bret took one look at him and had all sorts of preconceived notions. Sounds like he held that against him for the rest of the game.

[le bordel chaud]

Adam is my least favorite winner ever. His levels of arrogance and douchebaggery are off the charts.  I can't stand the sound of his voice or the sight of his face at this point. I don't find him likable at all, and I kept hoping that by some miracle he wouldn't win. (I feared he was getting the winner edit ever since he found his first idol in Episode 3, I believe.) I also hate that he acts like he is some kind of brilliant mastermind strategist, when IMO his game was quite weak overall and the smartest thing he did was make it to the end with two people he could beat. 

In fact, I found almost everyone unlikable and it was a very unpleasant season because of that. I just want to forget that it ever happened and hopefully Season 34 will be a return to form for my favorite TV show.

Edited December 15, 2016 by delicatecutter

[Alapaki]

32 minutes ago, Charlesman said:

David totally re-used his idol note with his fake one!

I caught that as well.  You could see the Jay unwrapping the parchment from around the HII when he broke open the coconut.

I'm really curious what would've happened had Jay revealed the fake HII before the vote.

I'm guessing David admits to crafting it himself.  But do the others believe him?  With so much paranoia about HII's, I'm not so sure.

David had Individual Immunity, but Adam was exposed.  So Ken, Hannah and Bret would've had an easy vote for Adam rather than voting for Jay and trusting David.  Lots of ways for that to play out.

To say nothing of the added wrinkle of Ken's secret Legacy Immunity which didn't get revealed until after the votes were cast.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

 

I would choose 'play now and my mother will have a chance of seeing me play or at least seeing me come home and tell her I won' over 'play after she's gone, in the hopes the offer still stands, and she'll never know if I ever did get the chance.'

 

I watch this show with my sons, and I hope it will continue to be a lifelong tradition. I've loved this show since I was, what? 19? 20? I can't even remember. Now I'm watching my little boys and if they one day had the chance to go BE on Survivor, I'd be so thrilled. I won't dare to guess what I'd do if I was in such a terrible situation as having terminal cancer, but I'd like to think that I'd try and convince my son(s) to go, just as Adam's mom did. If you know you're dying, you're just counting down days till it's over. That's pretty effing bleak. KNOWING that he was out there, for sure, 100% had to have given her some real joy in her final days. 

 

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

And I forgot about Bob Crowley. Then again, who hasn't?

Not me! Never. I'm a total oddball, but Gabon was one of my favorite seasons and Bob one of my favorite winners. 

 

1 hour ago, Boilergal said:

Or that Ken comes off as a long winded, self righteous, judgmental pompous ass and Bret did appreciate the lectures. -- Per Will's assessment of having to have a conversation with Ken.

Will is 18. Many high school kids find that older adults come off as long winded and judgmental. I know he was out there, and I wasn't. But I really don't think Ken intends to be that way, and it's quite possible that Will's interpretation is colored by immaturity and inexperience. 

[pamplemousse]

I'm not going to question Adam's choice in playing Survivor when his mom is terminally ill. That's his choice and he has the right to make it and it does not make him a shitty person or a bad son or anything of the sort.

I don't think he won because of his 'sob story.' I think he won because everyone on the jury thought he played the best out of the final 3 or liked him the most, or a combination of the two. There's nothing wrong with him telling them at FTC what his motivation was for being on Survivor, everyone has some sort of motivation and wants to explain why they are there in addition to duh, they want a million dollars. Was he just supposed to lie and say it was for some other reason? How come it's ok for other people to give the reason behind why they're there and not him? Because his reasoning is more compelling or tragic than some other people's? So that's his fault? 

I'm not excited about next season. I like watching novices to the game, and this season was one of the more entertaining ones. I especially do not need to see people who've played the game more than twice.

ETA: David really got me when, on his way out of the game, he thanked everyone for playing the game with him and said "Vinaka," and others also repeated "Vinaka." I played a lot of competitive sports when I was younger and even though there is only one winner in Survivor, I got the sense in that moment that for all the scheming and in-fighting, that group of people sitting there in that moment were like a team. I don't get that sense often with this show. People say this season was crappy with a lot of dumb novice players doing dumb shit, but I thought it was a great season with a group of people that had a real sense of unity and team spirit when it mattered. There were a few players I wasn't crazy about, but none of them were completely vile, there was definitely dysfunction and dissension but overall they all seemed to mostly like each other and get along.

Edited December 15, 2016 by pamplemousse

[Alapaki]

7 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Will is 18. Many high school kids find that older adults come off as long winded and judgmental. I know he was out there, and I wasn't. But I really don't think Ken intends to be that way, and it's quite possible that Will's interpretation is colored by immaturity and inexperience. 

Possibly.  And I don't want to defend Will because I believe the douche in strong in that one.  But I think we did hear several comments from Ken (mostly, I think, in confessionals, and one as recently as morning 39 about Hannah talking too much) that had a definite "you kids get off my lawn!" affect to them.  

That doesn't mean that's how he actually interacted with people around camp (as opposed to the confessionals).  But I think it does show that a condescending attitude is probably somewhere in there.

[Rachel RSL]

7 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Many high school kids find that older adults come off as long winded and judgmental. I know he was out there, and I wasn't. But I really don't think Ken intends to be that way, and it's quite possible that Will's interpretation is colored by immaturity and inexperience. 

Also,  I don't think he said that talking to Ken, in general, was like having your finger and toenails ripped out, I think he said working with Ken was. A bit of a difference. Will and Ken had never been aligned before so Will never had to pass Ken's "job interview" before.

[hatchetgirl]

I know feel like an ass about questioning Adam seeing his mom.  Boy, that was touching.  :(

[valandsend]

Who was drawing those squiggles on their voting ballots, and what were they? There was one that appeared to be a hand flipping its middle finger.

[Rachel RSL]

I noticed that Jay drew something on his ballot when he voted for Ken and I was like: "Is that a penis?"  But maybe it was a middle finger lol. In any case, I think he's the culprit.