S33.E12: Slayed the Survivor Dragon

[iMonrey]

Quote

Who could beat him though, besides maybe Jay? The panel, led by Michelle, is looking for a champion, not necessarily the person they like the most.

I call bullshit on that. They always say they're going to vote for the person who played the best game but their egos never allow them to actually acknowledge or recognize good game play. The way Zeke, Bret, Chris, Taylor and Jay rolled their eyes right out of their heads every time David opened his mouth at TC speaks volumes of what they think of his game play. Even if we think David played a good game it doesn't necessarily mean they think so.  

[hatchetgirl]

From what I've read, Adam's mother didn't see him. He was still across the world 2 days after she passed, so why? I'd think that immediately after the finale, survivor would get him home asap just for the publicity alone.

[jay741982]

Maybe Adam made F3 and that's why he didn't make it home 

[truthaboutluv]

He would not have made it home whether or not he made F3. At this point, Adam's in the game until the end because even if he gets booted before F3, he's on the jury, which has to vote for who gets the million. 

Edited December 8, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[green]

3 hours ago, woodscommaelle said:

This may have already been discussed (I watch the show and casually read the boards but I still don't know these people's names and who is on what alliance so it's confusing to me to follow along) but is 'resume' this year's 'voting block?'  I don't feel like I've ever heard the word used in past seasons.  And I hear it a lot this season.

Resume means just what it means in real life.  The skills you list to hopefully get you your dream job.  In this case what you present to the jury to be given the job of Winner of Survivor.  AKA your big moves and strategy and tactics and loyalty to certain players and challenge wins etc.

Hatchetgirl, that is sad news.  I hope you are wrong but am guessing you are probably right now.

My guesses regards the winner this season:

Jay - if he makes it to finally three he has the best chance of winning given who is on the jury and would be a deserving winner if not my personal pick.

David - probably deserves it but unless Ken and Hannah both end up on the jury he probably doesn't have the votes there.

Adam - deserves it too but until I saw hatchetgirl's post I would have guessed he got the call to fly back home and left the game immediately.

Hannah - has been playing hard but never could get other people to listen to her much other than the Sunday vote.  Jury would see her more as a loyal lieutenant than anything else as a result.  Definitely not a goat.

Ken and Brett - the two goats of the remaining six.  Brett keeps saying he is playing the game but never does.  Ken doesn't seem to know there is a game going on.  Neither will get a single vote from the jury for sure.  Yes Ken seems a good guy but he is not a Survivor player.  He owes his position in the final 6 to David and David in part to him. 

And I seriously doubt Ken's "advantage" means he gets to vote someone out.  That is way too powerful in a final 6.  Maybe an advantage like skipping one part of a 4 part immunity challenge or something.

[hincandenza]

So much of what I would have said has been said, and so eloquently, so I'll just add some random two cents:

I'm disheartened that some people here are knocking on Adam for crying about his mom.  @green made a beautifully impassioned defense of this, but yeah... she is literally on death's door, he knows it, and is struggling mightily as any child would be.  This is nothing like Fairplay or others, and I hope against hope that Adam at least had a chance to talk to his mom (even via Skype) at least once before she passed, either after FTC or from Ponderosa. 

Regarding David: most of the contestants have been repeatedly vocal to each other that David is a huge threat to win, so clearly they think that he's done enough to be a viable candidate.  This season seems to mostly be people (excluding say Taylor and Michaela; I'm so happy she didn't make the jury) who get that it's a game and don't harbor lingering ill will about being outmaneuvered; Ponderosa seems a happy place without a lot of bitterness.  Against Jay, I don't think David wins (although a David/Jay/Adam finale would be the most interesting to me, because all have a legitimate case to make and there would be no goats), but I don't think the jury hates him.  And while Adam, Hannah, and Brett may quickly realize they need to vote him out, they'll probably be so focused on waiting for Jay to not win immunity that it'll suddenly be a final four with Ken and David still locked in orbit with each other.  If David makes the jury- and I consider that pretty likely at this point- he'll have a very strong case against everyone except Jay.  His ideal final three is probably him, Hannah, and Ken, and the latter two have every reason to ride along to at least ensure a seat there.

I would never want to be on Survivor- I'm too old and out of shape, I hate cameras, and I really hate camping (if I don't have a proper bidet toilet and hot shower to get me going in the morning, I'm a bigger mess than Hannah)- but I'd like to try some of these challenges.  I find I often think immediately of a trick or gimmick that would make it easier when watching them compete; for example, in the balance/disk rolling challenge (where David was comically tossing the disks) my very first thought was "You should snap that holding pole in two, then use it to set up guide rails to aim a rolled disk".  I was also surprised that Adam wasn't admonished by Probst for helping Ken win to the point of not really even playing the challenge; I'm surprised there isn't a hard and fast rule about aiding other competitors.  Because if that's legit, then the next IC the other players should actively try to impede Jay's attempts so he can't win immunity; the mental image of a grubby Hannah tackling Jay at the hip has me chuckling heartily. :)

[SlackerInc]

I think Hannah's targeting of Sunday is defensible.  People leave "tempting goats" in the game, and they can end up taking your spot in the finals.  And I'm glad Sunday is gone.  I listened to her exit interview on RHAP and boggled at how clueless she was about the game, even now.

[piequinn35]

10 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I agree.  The two of them crying together in the hammock will go down as one of my all time favorite Survivor moments.  This show brings out the raw person under the façade like none other. It will always fascinate me.

At this moment, Will and Zeke were having fun in the hammock in Ponderosa lol

[Haleth]

54 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

He would not have made it home whether or not he made F3. At this point, Adam's in the game until the end because even if he gets booted before F3, he's on the jury, which has to vote for who gets the million. 

Didn't they let Terry go home when his son became extremely ill?  He wasn't on the jury but I can't believe the producers are that heartless to make Adam wait.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Haleth

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, Haleth said:

Didn't they let Terry go home when his son became extremely ill?  

Yes they did. And to be honest, I'm surprised that Adam wasn't told that he needed to get home unless the family didn't contact the show. However my response was to the comment that maybe Adam didn't make it because he was F3 and I was noting that even if he didn't make F3, he'd still be on the jury, so he would have still been there till the end. I'm sure he'll explain what happened at the reunion show.

[Rachel RSL]

It also could be that the end came rather quickly. I've lost several family members to cancer and they can go downhill extremely fast. Awake and talking one day and gone the next.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Rachel RSL

[LanceM]

The way I see the final six in terms of their winning chances:

Jay - If he is in the F3 he wins against anyone

David - If he is the F3 he wins against everyone but Jay

If neither of these two are in the FTC than Hannah and Adam have the best shot, though I'd give the edge to Hannah at this point.

Ken and Bret have no chance of winning against anyone, unless it is a final two and they are the final two than one of them has to win.

[Lamima]

35 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

It also could be that the end came rather quickly. I've lost several family members to cancer and they can go downhill extremely fast. Awake and talking one day and gone the next.

This. My dad died from lung cancer in 2001. He was 54 and working full time. Living a normal life when he started having back pain that led to an MRI. On Dec 19th he was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer, Dec 26th he was admitted to hospital and Dec 31st he passed away. Whirlwind of a time that was.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Lamima

[Rachel RSL]

That's awful :(  But it's a sad truth about cancer.  Whether Adam got to see or talk to his mom or not, I hope he at least made peace with his decision to go on the show because it sounds like it made his mom really happy.

[cleo]

The thing with Adam is, he has given up the last amount of time he could have spent with his mother and he will never get that back. 

sure, that is not what he intended but that was the risk, and that i understand, is what happened.

He talks like he wants to believe being in survivor is noble or heroic due to her wishes, but I think in the long run that pales in comparison to what he lost.

In saying that, I'm trying not to judge, it is just very sad.

I like his and Jay's relationship as well. Here are two opponents that have some moments of respect and appreciation and human decency towards one another. Yeah we don't see that much these days, unfortunately.

Edited December 9, 2016 by cleo

[Nedsdag]

23 hours ago, mojoween said:

That wasn't Will.  That was Leif Garrett.

I am so not ready for this season to be over.

Sunday voted Jay, Bret voted David with Jay.  How odd.

Leif Garrett wishes he still had Will's hair. I hope there's no male pattern baldness in Will's genes.

The producers should've called the show "The Adam Show" from the way he played Jay like a fiddle to his gameplay. It doesn't mean he'll win, but he has been entertaining. Plus, I loved, loved, LOVED the way he helped Ken on the second immunity challenge and Jay's reaction during it.

Who'd thunk that "weak", panic attacked, lousy player Hannah would be the last woman standing for either team. The fact that David is still alive is also a miracle. It just goes to show it takes more than just physical ability (although it would help), and of course a little luck, to stay alive in this game. Outplay, Outwit, Outlast, indeed!

And yes, this has been a memorable season. I cannot wait for the reunion show to see how sexy Ken will look with more meat on his bones.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Survivor Jettisons Two Contestants As We Jump Toward The Finale

It's a double elimination, and with all of the remaining contestants trying to make big moves, anyone could be going to jury.

[Subrookie]

I'm a little confused why Will was getting any credit for saving Hanna? Sure he changed his vote but Adam played his idol. What they must do during tribal is actually show every vote that was cast otherwise no one would have ever known that Will had gone with Adam's group and everyone would have thought Adam saved her. I was confused by the editing of that part of the show. 

[ForeverAlone]

As much as I was hoping David would get voted out this episode (not because I necessarily dislike him as a player, but only because it would make sense to vote him out, since he is a threat to win the game), I didn't think it would be  him, Jay, or Adam, only because the show typically sticks two boring boots into the one hour double boot episodes. 

I can't say that I am sorry to see Will or Sunday go. I can see why Hannah would want to vote out Sunday, only because she seems to think there is only room for one goat at FTC. But I really do shake my head at everyone else who seems content to leave threats in the game. But at least it will make for an interesting finale. I honestly have no clue how this will shake out or who will win. I tend to think Jay or David have the best shots of winning, but you just never know. 

And fun fact, but this is the sausagiest final six this show has ever seen. It's like the reverse gender Vanuatu/One World. :) :) :) 

Edited December 9, 2016 by ForeverAlone

[mojoween]

The pic from the recap post reminded me that I loved that shot of Hannah that the cameraman framed in the crook of David's arm.

Also, apropos of nothing, Ken is still hot.

[sadiegirl1999]

Came back tonight to say that I LOVED when they were playing the 1st IC, and Will was failing miserably, which Jeff pointed out.

Will says, "Thanks Jeff!"

I always love it when castaways give him crap.

And I think this is the 1st time at a TC with rain that Jeff actually fixed/styled his hair. It was hilarious.

[Maverick]

22 hours ago, GaT said:

Anybody know why there were 2 TCs tonight?

 They had to because they haven't nearly killed a castaway or three this season.  

[Lingo]

So can anybody figure out why David wanted to put a single vote on Jay and the rest on Bret (or Sunday)? For the life of me I can't think of any strategic value in that whatsoever. It didn't help flush out the idol because Jay didn't see the vote before he played his idol. And even if by some miracle Bret/Sunday had an idol of their own, the single vote on Jay would not be enough to send him home. So wtf? As Kim said in the recap, just put all 4 votes on the person you're voting for. You don't actually have to waste a vote on Jay, you just have to convince him you're all voting for him.

[hincandenza]

2 minutes ago, Lingo said:

So can anybody figure out why David wanted to put a single vote on Jay and the rest on Bret (or Sunday)? For the life of me I can't think of any strategic value in that whatsoever. It didn't help flush out the idol because Jay didn't see the vote before he played his idol. And even if by some miracle Bret/Sunday had an idol of their own, the single vote on Jay would not be enough to send him home. So wtf? As Kim said in the recap, just put all 4 votes on the person you're voting for. You don't actually have to waste a vote on Jay, you just have to convince him you're all voting for him.

I already can't remember those conversations- and I literally watched it only yesterday- but I think the gist was that David obviously knew he was on the chopping block and (rather calmly, Ken) tried to plan around that.  A Jay/David tie means David goes home instead of Jay when Jay's idol is played.  The goal was to flush the idol this week while also removing someone not in the David/Ken/Hannah alliance, and you flush the idol by making the person holding it believe in a credible threat of going home that night.

I vaguely recall there being a plan to do their split 3/1 vote to counteract what they'd assume was 3 votes for David on the other side.  A 4/3 Jay/David vote sends David home if Jay plays the idol, and plans for a 4/3 vote on Brett/David could intentionally or unintentionally leak from Adam, and result in Jay playing his idol for Brett and sending David home while cementing his final tribal "resume".  However, a 3/3/1 tie between Brett (later Sunday) and David would force a re-vote while also scaring Jay to play his idol, even if every single person knew that was the plan ahead of time.  

The logic is that once Jay sees his name on the first vote, he'd be thinking "Shit, I didn't play the idol... I'm worried I'll get at least 3 votes on the revote". David/Ken/Hannah/Adam planned to then put all 4 votes on Brett when the re-vote occurred in order to break the tie.  I'm not actually clear on whether, in a tie situation like that, Jay would even be allowed the option to pull out his idol after the first vote was read, but I think that's what they were banking on.  

In the end, it didn't matter and worked out just as well: Jay still used his idol, and the core alliance tightened the noose on Jay and Brett.  The biggest risk now to D/H/K is Adam flipping to Jay/Brett, since he has to have considered that a) he's not in the D/H/K group, and b) if he makes the finale then both Brett and Sunday (with whom he had a "let's not take the threats" conversation this very episode) are never going to vote for him.  Me, I suspect Adam just wants to make the finale, so he'll stab anyone in the back to get there even if he ends up with 0 votes.

[Fortune Falcon]

On 12/8/2016 at 3:52 PM, Sayla Vee said:

Why is it so gross of Adam to talk about his mother's stage 4 cancer and it's not just as gross for Jay to talk about the 9 years his mother has been having brain aneurysms?

+1. Adam talking about his mother was lovely. Jay talking about his mother was vile.

[Lingo]

No, that doesn't work. You can't play an idol on a revote. You can only play it when Jeff asks for it, before the first vote. I mean, if the rules are consistent with every previous season anyway.

[riley702]

4 minutes ago, Fortune Falcon said:

+1. Adam talking about his mother was lovely. Jay talking about his mother was vile.

Why was it vile?

[SlackerInc]

4 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

As much as I was hoping David would get voted out this episode (not because I necessarily dislike him as a player, but only because it would make sense to vote him out, since he is a threat to win the game), I didn't think it would be  him, Jay, or Adam, only because the show typically sticks two boring boots into the one hour double boot episodes. 

I can't say that I am sorry to see Will or Sunday go. I can see why Hannah would want to vote out Sunday, only because she seems to think there is only room for one goat at FTC. But I really do shake my head at everyone else who seems content to leave threats in the game.

I don't really agree that the only "right" way to play is to maximize your chances of winning the million dollars.  I will elaborate on that in the Unpopular Opinions thread.

2 hours ago, Maverick said:

 They had to because they haven't nearly killed a castaway or three this season.  

Would it really kill CBS to just air an extra episode when this happens?  I suppose they have lots of popular shows, but if it were on any other network, I bet they'd be happy to put on an extra episode of a show with consistently high Nielsen ratings.

[SVNBob]

19 hours ago, waving feather said:

I loved that conversation between Jay and Adam too. But I was quite amused that we have these two dudes lying together on the hammock, having a heartfelt conversation and crying, while Ken is obliviously chopping wood just in front of them. Did Ken even try to eavesdrop? I would have but knowing Ken, probably not.

Well, they were whispering pretty well.  So between that and the sounds of chopping, Ken may not have heard anything even if he tried.

Then again, knowing what we know of Ken, he might have heard some, but when realizing what the conversation was about (something entirely outside of the game), he decided to keep his mouth shut.

[Sarnia]

Will a HII get re-hidden now that they have all been played, or is it too late in the game now? I know there are only 2 hours of show left, but can't an HII be played up to final 5?

[plurie]

9 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

 I can see why Hannah would want to vote out Sunday, only because she seems to think there is only room for one goat at FTC. But I really do shake my head at everyone else who seems content to leave threats in the game.

I think Hannah's targeting of Sunday was very smart. Not only did she worry that Sunday would be taken to the final instead of Hannah, but leaving Brett in the game reduces the chances of Jay winning individual immunity and taking out one of her alliance members. Brett is no strategic threat, and is also goatier than Hannah, so keeping him there isn't a big deal.

[truthaboutluv]

55 minutes ago, plurie said:

but leaving Brett in the game reduces the chances of Jay winning individual immunity

It does? Maybe I'm wrong but I don't remember Brett being particularly impressive in challenges so I don't think his presence there factors in any way to Jay winning or losing immunity. Adam is a bigger threat to Jay in challenges and hell even David's won at least one. 

[laurakaye]

9 hours ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

And I think this is the 1st time at a TC with rain that Jeff actually fixed/styled his hair. It was hilarious.

Everyone else looked waterlogged.  Probst had hair and makeup on standby to slick his hair back just so and powder the raindrops from his golden skin.  LOLZ.

 

3 hours ago, SVNBob said:

Well, they were whispering pretty well.  So between that and the sounds of chopping, Ken may not have heard anything even if he tried.

I'm wondering how that works, because I heard several voices talking in the background, so clearly most of the cast was there - so they had to have seen a camera trained on Jay and Adam.  Maybe they saw what appeared to be an emotional conversation and respectfully stayed away, or maybe another camera or two was there filming as well.  I'm glad no one intruded on Jay and Adam, but at the same time - if I'm playing the game and I notice two people crying, I'm going to wonder what's going on.

 

3 hours ago, Sarnia said:

Will a HII get re-hidden now that they have all been played, or is it too late in the game now? I know there are only 2 hours of show left, but can't an HII be played up to final 5?

THIS...does Jay anyone still have time to find one more idol?

Best season since Cook Islands!

[OFDgal]

Just found out that the t-shirt that Bret is wearing is from MR8,. a charity founded for Martin Richard, the 8 year old that was killed in the Boston Marathon bombing.  I was at the local Dorchester(Boston) t-shirt shop yesterday and saw Bret's picture with the shirt on.  Staff told me he wanted it specifically to wear on Survivor.  Surprised he's still in the game when he hasn't done anything but have to give him props for the shirt.

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

It does? Maybe I'm wrong but I don't remember Brett being particularly impressive in challenges so I don't think his presence there factors in any way to Jay winning or losing immunity. Adam is a bigger threat to Jay in challenges and hell even David's won at least one. 

And Ken.  He won one before winning one with Adam's help.  

[plurie]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

It does? Maybe I'm wrong but I don't remember Brett being particularly impressive in challenges so I don't think his presence there factors in any way to Jay winning or losing immunity. Adam is a bigger threat to Jay in challenges and hell even David's won at least one. 

No, Brett is far from a "challenge monster," but if the options were Brett or Sunday, who's more likely to win ii? Also, one of them had to go as they were a single voting unit with two votes. Far too dangerous this late in the game.

Edited December 9, 2016 by plurie
forgot to close quote

[Special K]

11 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

And fun fact, but this is the sausagiest final six this show has ever seen. It's like the reverse gender Vanuatu/One World. :) :) :) 

Yes, but we actually have quite a few decent, interesting, and warm men for once.  We have two very dear male/male friendships -- Ken and David, and Jay and Adam.  Both unlikely, and both lovely to see play out. 

SO much better than Foley, Hantz, the Bounty Hunter, etc.

If I were a man, I'd be heartened by this kind of masculinity on display on a reality show.  Hell, I'm heartened as a woman!

[waving feather]

I don't understand why one of them (Bret or Sunday) has to go though. They really missed the opportunity to take David out. David could find another HII again and before they know it, he's in the finale and being crowned sole survivor. I think it was a mistake on Hannah's part not to get rid of David while she still could. NO WAY she's winning against him.

[fishcakes]

9 hours ago, Lingo said:

So can anybody figure out why David wanted to put a single vote on Jay and the rest on Bret (or Sunday)? For the life of me I can't think of any strategic value in that whatsoever. It didn't help flush out the idol because Jay didn't see the vote before he played his idol. And even if by some miracle Bret/Sunday had an idol of their own, the single vote on Jay would not be enough to send him home.

I think the primary goal was to save David and preserve their numbers and only secondarily to flush Jay's idol. They were thinking there were 3 votes against David, so if they voted 4/3 and Jay played his idol (which seemed likely), then David would go home. But if they voted 3/3/1, then on the revote, David would be safe regardless of whether Jay played his idol or not.

But as I was typing that, I realized we did not see a revote, so I looked at the last part of the episode again. David/Ken/Adam/Hannah did all vote for Sunday. Jay and Bret voted for David, and the one lone vote for Jay was from Sunday. So now I don't know what any of them were thinking, but to me splitting the vote is the smarter move because then you don't have to worry about what Jay might do. Maybe Adam will loudly explain it to us at the beginning of the next episode.

[plurie]

1 hour ago, waving feather said:

I don't understand why one of them (Bret or Sunday) has to go though. They really missed the opportunity to take David out. David could find another HII again and before they know it, he's in the finale and being crowned sole survivor. I think it was a mistake on Hannah's part not to get rid of David while she still could. NO WAY she's winning against him.

That may be true, but she's in an alliance with David. And she seems to like him and Ken a lot. If she lets Adam be the "backstabber" who takes out David, and is somehow able to get rid of Jay, I think she has a good chance to win.

[Boilergal]

17 hours ago, jay741982 said:

Maybe Adam made F3 and that's why he didn't make it home 

 

17 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

He would not have made it home whether or not he made F3. At this point, Adam's in the game until the end because even if he gets booted before F3, he's on the jury, which has to vote for who gets the million. 

I believe the family kept Survivor informed on the mom's health, and behind the scenes Adam was kept up to date and given a choice.  If he decided to leave because of her condition, they would have filmed it in dramatic fashion like they have in the past.  I'm with @Jay741982 I believe Adam was in Final 3, if he went out at 4 or lower he probably would have gone home and it would have been just as dramatically explained in the reunion why Adam wasn't on the jury at the end.

Adam knew the risk when he left for a couple months - and I hope his decision doesn't eat him up.  No amount of money can make up for not getting to say final goodbyes to someone you cherish and love like he seems to.

[Special K]

44 minutes ago, plurie said:

That may be true, but she's in an alliance with David.

This is the crux of the Survivor problem -- how long to stick with those in your core alliance, and when to turn against them.  Timing is everything in this game, and possibly not completely knowable while you're in the midst of it.  I think a lot of these moves we admire on the outside are luck or guesses or hail mary passes. 

We frequently hear ousted Surivors saying, "I went for xx too soon," or "I waited too long to get so-and-so out."

[Silver Raven]

9 hours ago, Sarnia said:

Will a HII get re-hidden now that they have all been played, or is it too late in the game now?

Spoiler

The preview showed David making a fake idol, so I guess at least the castaways think there's an idol out there.

[ghoulina]

5 hours ago, plurie said:

No, Brett is far from a "challenge monster," but if the options were Brett or Sunday, who's more likely to win ii? Also, one of them had to go as they were a single voting unit with two votes. Far too dangerous this late in the game.

Exactly. And, Brett was right in line behind Jay during the first challenge of this episode. He's not horrible; he's no Will. 

[ljenkins782]

57 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Exactly. And, Brett was right in line behind Jay during the first challenge of this episode. He's not horrible; he's no Will. 

Will won an immunity challenge. Bret and Hannah are the only 2 left who haven't won one. 

Quote

The producers should've called the show "The Adam Show" from the way he played Jay like a fiddle to his gameplay. It doesn't mean he'll win, but he has been entertaining. Plus, I loved, loved, LOVED the way he helped Ken on the second immunity challenge and Jay's reaction during it.

My favorite Adam moment (after the hammock scene with Jay) was when he had his Jay/David vote-off scenario set and Hannah comes up going "I want to vote Sunday" and he immediately mutters "I hate you." It didn't sound malicious, just exasperated. Very funny.

I think the absence of people like Taylor and Figgy has allowed Adam the freedom to move out his nerdy outcast position and it's been nice to watch. Taking Jay's other options away gave him the time to see a different side of Adam. The run-up to the end would have been a vastly different experience if the cool kids clique had been able to mow down the others the way it seemed in the very beginning.

Quote

 

I think the primary goal was to save David and preserve their numbers and only secondarily to flush Jay's idol. They were thinking there were 3 votes against David, so if they voted 4/3 and Jay played his idol (which seemed likely), then David would go home. But if they voted 3/3/1, then on the revote, David would be safe regardless of whether Jay played his idol or not.

But as I was typing that, I realized we did not see a revote, so I looked at the last part of the episode again. David/Ken/Adam/Hannah did all vote for Sunday. Jay and Bret voted for David, and the one lone vote for Jay was from Sunday. So now I don't know what any of them were thinking, but to me splitting the vote is the smarter move because then you don't have to worry about what Jay might do. Maybe Adam will loudly explain it to us at the beginning of the next episode.

 

It was a good plan in the sense that it prevented a slam dunk eviction of David, but the fact that it was Sunday who voted for Jay is perplexing to me. She was his biggest fan and not aligned with David at all, I would have expected her to want David gone if they were trying to remove one of the 2 big threats.

Quote

After leaving Fiji, Ken and David are going to adopt each other. Ken will help David have more confidence in himself and David will send Ken monthly texts reminding him it's time to pay his electric bill.

This made me laugh way too hard. 

Quote

I love it too. And this is kind of what I read Adam's telling Jay about his mother as - Jay was begging Adam to take him to the end and Adam was basically saying 'dude, I would, but this is why I can't.' I didn't see it as gameplay or manipulation, but more Adam trying to explain why he's playing as hard as he is. 

On rewatching that scene, I tend to agree. We now know what happened with his mom, but at that time, he didn't know how quickly the end would come. He may have thought winning the money could mean paying for different treatments or maybe taking her on a bucket list trip.

Quote

I'm a little confused why Will was getting any credit for saving Hanna? Sure he changed his vote but Adam played his idol. What they must do during tribal is actually show every vote that was cast otherwise no one would have ever known that Will had gone with Adam's group and everyone would have thought Adam saved her. I was confused by the editing of that part of the show. 

The fact that Hannah's giving Will any credit at all means that they all know Will flipped to their side, making Adam's idol play irrelevant. Showing all of the votes wouldn't have changed that. 

[Wandering Snark]

7 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

The fact that Hannah's giving Will any credit at all means that they all know Will flipped to their side, making Adam's idol play irrelevant. Showing all of the votes wouldn't have changed that. 

Will even said that they all knew he flipped and if they didn't he then admitted so in tribal iirc.

[Rachel RSL]

I still don't understand why Hannah was going on and on about Will saving her butt. Uh, no he didn't, Adam played his idol so you would have been saved regardless of how King Neptune voted.  I really don't understand why Hannah seems to think she owes Will and not Adam.

[hatchetgirl]

I have no problem with Will or Jay crying.  It's such a big thing!  I'm just trying to figure out how he didn't get home if the show filmed the finale 2 days before she passed.  He wouldn't have been in Ponderosa, would he?  The finale is live, I thought, so I'd imagine, if the finale happened, and I was in his position, I'd book myself home ASAP!  But it really is neither here nor there.  I agree it's his family and his choice.  It's just heartbreaking seeing him crying so hard for his mom (completely reasonable) and not getting to her in time.  

[LadyChatts]

23 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

I think Hannah's targeting of Sunday is defensible.  People leave "tempting goats" in the game, and they can end up taking your spot in the finals.  And I'm glad Sunday is gone.  I listened to her exit interview on RHAP and boggled at how clueless she was about the game, even now.

I think getting David was a smarter move, but in hindsight, maybe it wasn't so dumb.  Hannah got rid of someone useless, and there's still a big threat in the game that everyone wants to get rid of.  Of course, David's name has been coming up since the first vote, so whether they're finally successful is unknown.  I don't know if Hannah considers herself a goat if she makes it to the final 3 or if she'll think she has a chance against people like David, Jay, or Adam (I think she could beat Bret and Ken).

[Sarnia]

46 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

I still don't understand why Hannah was going on and on about Will saving her butt. Uh, no he didn't, Adam played his idol so you would have been saved regardless of how King Neptune voted.  I really don't understand why Hannah seems to think she owes Will and not Adam.

Yes, I really don't get that either. Hannah, Adam sacrificed his Immunity Idol for you! Be a little thankful!

I was surprised also at Probst during the first tribal making blatant reference to the fact that Will made his "big move" in voting out Zeke. 2 votes were not read at the previous council, and if by any chance Will was trying to hide his vote from the others, this would have gone up in flame right there. I thought it was a very obstrusive move from Probst, one that could have changed the game. It so happened that Will was not hiding this (but Probst is not supposed to know) and was voted out anyway, but I thought Probst overstepped his role there.