Joy and Austin: This One Time At Family Camp

[awaken]

12 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

im. But we know the fundies tend to talk out of their asses big time when it comes to family planning... or just can't figure out how to prevent blessings... so who knows. I don't tend to believe anyone when they say they're stopping after x amount of children or are done. 

Alyssa Webster springs to mind!

[Meow Mix]

On the one hand, I think making sure to keep the marriage as a priority is a good idea.  Once the kids are gone, you have to live with each other and if the kids have been a distraction all that time, things can get bad.  At the same time, though, I find his statement a little sad that he can't wait for the kids to grow up and get out.  I think they need to close up shop on having them if he feels that way.  

I noticed in Jill's book, there were a lot of negative things said in her family about people who "only" had two or three kids.  That seemed to run deep with her that she was so bothered by the idea that she may have only had two kids even though intellectually she realized she was fortunate to have two healthy boys.  I suspect Joy has internalized the same negativity around having only a small family.

[crazy8s]

21 minutes ago, Meow Mix said:

On the one hand, I think making sure to keep the marriage as a priority is a good idea.  Once the kids are gone, you have to live with each other and if the kids have been a distraction all that time, things can get bad.  At the same time, though, I find his statement a little sad that he can't wait for the kids to grow up and get out.  I think they need to close up shop on having them if he feels that way. 

I think Austin is one who doesn't have "a heart for children" and is not enjoying this particular season of life.

Joy and Austin seem to have common interest in outdoor adventures and it is sad they were taught not to explore and enjoy that as a couple before having babies immediately upon marriage.

I think Austin will enjoy being with his sons as they get older and they can go hunting and fishing together. Sorry daughters, dad will never include you in the adventures.

 

[Scarlett45]

Not everyone who chooses to have children likes caregiving- or even children for that matter.
 

And at this age the children are VERY labor intensive. I could see Austin enjoying having older children more, although I think people fail to realize typically as children get older they are less physically needy (they are capable of attending to their daily living activities independently, can assist in household chores etc) but are much more emotionally and intellectually needy. 
 

I also think Austin would prefer to have the majority of Joy’s attention, but being childfree (or having only 1-2kids) wasn’t an option for them. I don’t see them having kids for another ten years. Likely Joy enjoys having babies and she wants more. 

48 minutes ago, Meow Mix said:

I noticed in Jill's book, there were a lot of negative things said in her family about people who "only" had two or three kids.  That seemed to run deep with her that she was so bothered by the idea that she may have only had two kids even though intellectually she realized she was fortunate to have two healthy boys.  I suspect Joy has internalized the same negativity around having only a small family.

I can see that. Having a small family is seen as “selfish” or a “failure”. 

[dargosmydaddy]

I haven't watched all of Joy's videos, but from the ones I've seen (mainly pre-Gunner), he seemed like an involved and loving parent who interacts with/ plays with/ talks to with his kids and doesn't expect Joy to do everything. Of course we're only seeing a small sample of their lives, but you can say that about all the Duggars/ Duggar adjacents. Based on the samples we've been given, Austin would not be on my list of "neglectful fundie dads" or "people who don't have a heart for children." 

[Salacious Kitty]

Maybe Gunner broke him?

[Notabug]

15 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I haven't watched all of Joy's videos, but from the ones I've seen (mainly pre-Gunner), he seemed like an involved and loving parent who interacts with/ plays with/ talks to with his kids and doesn't expect Joy to do everything. Of course we're only seeing a small sample of their lives, but you can say that about all the Duggars/ Duggar adjacents. Based on the samples we've been given, Austin would not be on my list of "neglectful fundie dads" or "people who don't have a heart for children." 

It's quite possible for someone to parent well even when their kids aren't in a stage that they enjoy as a parent.  Virtually every parent does it at some  point.

My dad was an involved dad from the start.  I recall him getting up with my youngest sister, changing and feeding her, getting her dressed before leaving for work.  My mom was not a morning person, so my dad took that part of the day, every day and never seemed upset or unhappy about it.  He was pretty affectionate and interacted with my sister, and the rest of us mostly very positively while doing the morning shift. I can count on the fingers of both hands how many times my mother got up with us and made breakfast, got us off to school, etc. from the time I can remember through high school and probably have some fingers left over.  It worked for them.

It was only years later, after I was grown, that my father told me he didn't really like the little baby stage and caring for them  He really loved kids who were older, could take care of their own basic needs, and, best of all, could speak for themselves and could converse. He really liked talking to us, seeing who we were and what we thought.

I hope that, even if Austin isn't fond of the preschool years, he still does right by his kids.  It is possible and most parents do it without thinking twice.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Notabug

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Notabug said:

I hope that, even if Austin isn't fond of the preschool years, he still does right by his kids.  It is possible and most parents do it without thinking twice.

Of course. It just isn’t socially popular to say “I don’t like x stage.” (Especially in the thick of it) Add in the expectation if you come from a social group where having a super large family is a sign of spiritual favor. 

[Salacious Kitty]

My comment above about Gunner was actually serious. Austin has seemed almost as exhausted as Joy since Gunner was born. He doesn't seem to be handling 3 kids particularly well (and Joy is running herself ragged). It's probably not very pleasant in their home these days.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Salacious Kitty

[GeeGolly]

I was one of those moms who loved each stage my kids moved into. It was only after they were grown when I could look back somewhat objectively. Hands down, for me anyway, the first 6 weeks were the hardest - sleep deprived, 2 - 4 hour feedings, diapers, the gross umbilical chord - did I mention sleep deprived? Then maybe the early walking stage - kind of having to be on alert for falling and head bumps. All the rest had the good and the bad, but the good far out weighed any of the bad.

Austin is somewhat of a balanced parent. He lets the kids be themselves, like with Giddy's pacifier, he takes time to share his work with them and play with them, and he also disciplines them. Where he likely falters is the discipline part as I'm guessing he might be too authoritarian.  

IMO, Joy seems to struggle with parenting, she kind of rules with her emotions. Also she doesn't seem to be able to discern what's important and what isn't.

[andromeda331]

My parents was one of those who prefered the older stage around elementary age and up. The baby age was fun but they really liked being able to do things with their kids. Go to the movies, ballgames, and go on trips. Or hanging out watching TV together or talking. Even though it was busy she loved going to my brother's baseball games and watching him play and the stories we told either made up or about our days. I like babies but it really gets more fun around age three and up when the personalities come out, interests and fun things to do together. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by andromeda331

[Madtown]

Kids need a schedule and I'm pretty sure none of the 3 have one. Joy is trying to "homeschool" and I'm sure that isn't going well. With all Gideon has going, he needs to be in school and probably some special classes.

if Austin truly doesn't want anymore kids(which I know, none of us know what he feels about having more), then he needs to put his foot down and tell Joy, no more. Then again, wasn't it when Anna was pregnant with number 4, FF, said he didn't want anymore or even that many? Then they went and had 3 more.

I can't imagine what their household is like and it will only get worse with more kids.

[GeeGolly]

When Joy and Austin did a reel about trying for their third kid, they discussed how they were finally ready. I actually got the impression Joy was the hold out and needed time to come around to having a third. So it might be Austin who gets baby fever and not Joy.

[Canadian Girl]

On 10/15/2023 at 1:49 PM, crazy8s said:

I think Austin will enjoy being with his sons as they get older and they can go hunting and fishing together. Sorry daughters, dad will never include you in the adventures.

 

I don't know. I suspect Austin wouldn't have a problem taking daughters hunting and fishing. Joy ran with the boys and likes outdoor stuff and he liked that about her. 

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, Canadian Girl said:

I don't know. I suspect Austin wouldn't have a problem taking daughters hunting and fishing. Joy ran with the boys and likes outdoor stuff and he liked that about her. 

And they have done some outdoorsy vacations as well. 

[farmgal4]

On 10/15/2023 at 11:10 PM, andromeda331 said:

My parents was one of those who prefered the older stage around elementary age and up. The baby age was fun but they really liked being able to do things with their kids. Go to the movies, ballgames, and go on trips. Or hanging out watching TV together or talking. Even though it was busy she loved going to my brother's baseball games and watching him play and the stories we told either made up or about our days. I like babies but it really gets more fun around age three and up when the personalities come out, interests and fun things to do together. 

Neither of my parents liked any child in the newborn to 6 months old range, so for the first 6 months of my life, my grandparents (who lived 2 hours away from my parents) raised me. Because of my experience, I have at least a little respect for anyone who loves their child enough to raise them themselves, whether they truly like all of it or not.

[Snow Fairy]

It was Joy's birthday. I can't believe she is only 26 and has three children. 

[floridamom]

Joy looks so worn out for 26 yrs old. She seems to be running around trying to keep up with Austin's "family trips". This guy seems to not give a damn about his wife's health, really IMO. She has been pregnant 4 times in a short time. Her house is a mess, her children are unkempt and always seem to be behind at home. She should have sent Austin and the 3 kids to his parents' camp for the day in a previous video, stayed home and cleaned up the house, do laundry and maybe put her feet up a big. This trip was in a previous video from Joy. She went with him to the camp after saying her house was a mess, etc....so what does she do? She leaves for the day to go to that camp. 

[SnapHappy]

Joy doesn't strike me as anybody who really gives a shit about her house as long as her husband & kids are happy.   She's always been the tomboy, getting dirty & into nature.  Hygiene & fashion are NOT a big concern, from what I've seen.

I don't watch the videos, but she's never come across as a decorator or much concerned about the ornamental things in her home.  I think she'd rather lay flooring than mop it and catch fish rather than cook it. 

And most of them look tired and unkempt in their photos & videos.  For all of their weirdness, Joy & Austin seem to throw their lives out on social media, warts and all.  

[CalicoKitty]

I wonder if they are addressing Giddy's issues, or have they decided that any follow through takes too much of their time.

[Salacious Kitty]

18 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

I wonder if they are addressing Giddy's issues, or have they decided that any follow through takes too much of their time.

They're always running off camping or something. I can't see Giddy being on any structured schedule for services for his dyslexia. Forget about the homeschooling. 

[floridamom]

Joy's video is out. She is not well if you ask me. She said that she was deficient in some nutrients and is lacking energy. She looked quite tired and worn out. Her house is still a mess. She woke Gideon up from bed 2 minutes before he had an online tutoring session ( not sure for what). Who does this? The kid was still groggy from a night's sleep. She also said that she doesn't get up before her children. What? I understand she is tired but Mom's should be up before children of such a young age wake up. No telling what they could get in to on their own. I don't know why she had to go to Austin's parents' farm yet again and stand around. Why not send him with the kids and Gunner's bottle for his mother to look after for a few hours, clean up your house and maybe take a short nap. She, like Alyssa Webster is burned out. Joy doesn't look happy either; she's overwhelmed. The sad part is no one will care. 

[Scarlett45]

55 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Joy's video is out. She is not well if you ask me. She said that she was deficient in some nutrients and is lacking energy. She looked quite tired and worn out. Her house is still a mess. She woke Gideon up from bed 2 minutes before he had an online tutoring session ( not sure for what). Who does this? The kid was still groggy from a night's sleep. She also said that she doesn't get up before her children. What? I understand she is tired but Mom's should be up before children of such a young age wake up. No telling what they could get in to on their own. I don't know why she had to go to Austin's parents' farm yet again and stand around. Why not send him with the kids and Gunner's bottle for his mother to look after for a few hours, clean up your house and maybe take a short nap. She, like Alyssa Webster is burned out. Joy doesn't look happy either; she's overwhelmed. The sad part is no one will care. 

It’s very exhausting to be a caregiver to young children; especially if one isn’t well themselves. If Joy needs help caring for the kids, or meeting her own needs, her husband and father of her children Austin should be stepping in and meeting those gaps. Either personally or hiring help if that’s logistically what’s best for the family. 
 

The sad thing is that Joy might not even realize she needs help or something is amiss. The standard of caregiving that was modeled for Joy wasn’t very high. She might not be able to admit to herself that she needs help. 

[GeeGolly]

Being a mom of young children is exhausting, especially if one is a nursing baby. Sometimes it is what it is and you just push through until it gets better. Not everyone can get more help, but everyone can help themselves. Kids thrive on schedules, both physically and mentally. 

If Joy needs a little extra sleep due to nursing, and Austin has already left for work, then she could leave out some dry cereal and milk in sippy cups (in the fridge) for the 'big' kids to start their day. That way when she and Gunnar get up G&E won't be so demanding.

Or at least some type of schedule, because, well, schedules work.

[Absolom]

Sadly Joy has never seen that kind of parenting and who would she ask?  Jinger and Abbie are the only two I can think of who *might* be able to help her, but they each "only" have two children so she might not even think to ask them.

[beckie]

If she stopped filming,  even for a bit, she'd probably find she's not as exhausted.  Could her other deficiency be from her pregnancy with Gunner? I've never been pregnant so I don't know,  but she had to do those shots in her last pregnancy.  Could that have anything to do with it?

Edited November 19, 2023 by beckie

[Meow Mix]

Nursing alone takes a lot out of you and if she isn't getting proper nutrition herself, that could be causing her deficiencies.  Austin needs to step up and make sure she is getting the care she needs for her sake and the sake of the other kids.  I think we are starting to see the second generation hit the wall as the kids keep coming.  Sadly they may not be as lucky as Michelle was when she had her laundry room breakdown and others stepped in to help.

[Notabug]

Joy has a bunch of closely spaced kids and it is kicking her butt.  No surprise there.  Alas, as a Duggar, having been raised in almost feral circumstances, and not being the sharpest tool in the shed; she has no coping skills to help her deal with her heavy workload.

There are so many simple answers that could help her, but she doesn't know enough to seek them out.  In the real world, she would have a 5 year old enrolled in kindergarten 5 days a week and a 3 year old who could go to preschool 2-3 times a week for a couple hours.  Just sending the kids to regular school would force her to work out a daily schedule and get them into bed at a reasonable hour so they can be up and ready to go in the morning.  And none of the homeschooling, for which she is so poorly equipped, would be on her.  Someone like Joy, for whom educational pursuits are not part of her skillset, it has got to be even more exhausting/frustrating to have this on her plate.  She'd probably automatically feel lighter if she laid that burden on the professionals.  It would also free up some time for her to nap, fix a healthy meal, and have a little 'me' time.  

[Salacious Kitty]

I feel for the Forsyth kids. With Joy homeschooling them, they're going to be barely literate. I doubt she reads at much higher than 6th grade level. 

[Madtown]

1 hour ago, Notabug said:

There are so many simple answers that could help her, but she doesn't know enough to seek them out.  In the real world, she would have a 5 year old enrolled in kindergarten 5 days a week and a 3 year old who could go to preschool 2-3 times a week for a couple hours.  Just sending the kids to regular school would force her to work out a daily schedule and get them into bed at a reasonable hour so they can be up and ready to go in the morning.  And none of the homeschooling, for which she is so poorly equipped, would be on her.  Someone like Joy, for whom educational pursuits are not part of her skillset, it has got to be even more exhausting/frustrating to have this on her plate.  She'd probably automatically feel lighter if she laid that burden on the professionals.  It would also free up some time for her to nap, fix a healthy meal, and have a little 'me' time.  

Bingo!

Gideon should be in kindergarten, getting proper education and help with his learning disabilities. She has no idea how to homeschool her kids. I wouldn't doubt that the few pictures or videos she posts of Evie and Gideon doing worksheets, is about the only schooling they are getting. If they do an hour a day, I would be surprised. I wouldn't doubt that she probably never wanted to homeschool them.

Schedule is everything and it needs to be put into place ASAP.  Austin needs to be supporting her and telling her it's ok if she doesn't have the energy to homeschool(or the education)and put them in school. There was such a difference in Jill when Izzy went to school.

Someone needs to tell these women that they don't need to do everything, there is help out there.

[AstridM]

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I feel for the Forsyth kids. With Joy homeschooling them, they're going to be barely literate. I doubt she reads at much higher than 6th grade level. 

4th grade, maybe.

19 minutes ago, Madtown said:

Bingo!

Gideon should be in kindergarten, getting proper education and help with his learning disabilities. She has no idea how to homeschool her kids. I wouldn't doubt that the few pictures or videos she posts of Evie and Gideon doing worksheets, is about the only schooling they are getting. If they do an hour a day, I would be surprised. I wouldn't doubt that she probably never wanted to homeschool them.

Schedule is everything and it needs to be put into place ASAP.  Austin needs to be supporting her and telling her it's ok if she doesn't have the energy to homeschool(or the education)and put them in school. There was such a difference in Jill when Izzy went to school.

Someone needs to tell these women that they don't need to do everything, there is help out there.

I wish she would talk to her real mom, Jill, about all this.

[dargosmydaddy]

4 hours ago, Absolom said:

Sadly Joy has never seen that kind of parenting and who would she ask?  Jinger and Abbie are the only two I can think of who *might* be able to help her, but they each "only" have two children so she might not even think to ask them.

She seems close to Austin's family, and both his sisters have more than 3 kids. Of course the oldest sister wisely spaced them out, and maybe the other sister is just as exhausted as Joy (she had 4 in 5 years), but either one is probably a better example than Duggar parenting (since Duggar parenting is such a low bar).

40 minutes ago, AstridM said:

I wish she would talk to her real mom, Jill, about all this.

So much this...

[satrunrose]

3 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

I think we are starting to see the second generation hit the wall as the kids keep coming.  Sadly they may not be as lucky as Michelle was when she had her laundry room breakdown and others stepped in to help.

I doubt they will be. The grandmothers don't seem to step up at all after the babies are delivered, their married sisters and sisters-in-law (mostly) have the same demands on their time and energy (and the ones who don't are probably considered dubious influences by the true believer crew), Jana can't take care of everyone's kids and neither can the lost girls. They have few friends and the ones they do have are far away (Carlin) plus I've noticed that because the fundie women are so reliant on grifting to support their lifestyles, they seem to burn through what friends they have at a pretty fast rate. 

I'm so caught. I recognize it's sad that they don't have the kind of community support their mothers had, but you also don't have to raise and homeschool eleventy million kids just because some sicko loon with a foot fetish said you had to. 

[Absolom]

Hopefully, they'll come to the realization that this is all foolishness and stop procreating at a closer to reasonable number.  

[Salacious Kitty]

Joy has said only 1 or 2 more. I hope it's zero. She barely takes care of the ones she has. 

[oliviabenson]

Joy said she will homeschool for 20 minutes a day… 

[BetyBee]

1 hour ago, Madtown said:

Someone needs to tell these women that they don't need to do everything, there is help out there.

This makes me think of how these fundies have learned to embrace epidurals. They could make the next leap and send their kids to public school. They're all so afraid of public education because they have so many misconceptions about it, based on the bs their parents told them about public school. I hope Joy and Austin get Gideon the help he needs, but I seriously doubt that they will.

[Salacious Kitty]

I guess they feel that's okay because Giddy will just follow in Austin's footsteps and go into construction. He just needs basic math skills (that I don't think Joy can teach).

[Madtown]

3 hours ago, BetyBee said:

They're all so afraid of public education because they have so many misconceptions about it, based on the bs their parents told them about public school.

It's amazing that they can't see how poorly educated they are and would want so much better for their children. I have nothing against homeschooling, but Joy has no business doing it, nor does Jessa. I don't know if Austin has had a say in this or not, but he should recognize the situation and do better for his kids and wife.

[AstridM]

19 hours ago, Madtown said:

It's amazing that they can't see how poorly educated they are and would want so much better for their children. I have nothing against homeschooling, but Joy has no business doing it, nor does Jessa. I don't know if Austin has had a say in this or not, but he should recognize the situation and do better for his kids and wife.

Are you familiar with Austin’s dad? 🤦‍♀️

[Future Cat Lady]

Unlike Derrick and Jeremy, Austin doesn't come from a family that values education. I really don't think he's gonna do anything about it.

[Salacious Kitty]

3 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

Unlike Derrick and Jeremy, Austin doesn't come from a family that values education. I really don't think he's gonna do anything about it.

Sad, but true. Nothing will change. Austin's EQ seems to be very, very low. 

[Madtown]

On 11/20/2023 at 3:05 PM, AstridM said:

Are you familiar with Austin’s dad? 🤦‍♀️

Sadly, yes.

[Meow Mix]

On 11/20/2023 at 6:48 PM, Future Cat Lady said:

Unlike Derrick and Jeremy, Austin doesn't come from a family that values education. I really don't think he's gonna do anything about it.

As long as the boys can do basic construction work and the girls can snag husbands or take care of him in his old age, Austin doesn't care.  

[Salacious Kitty]

51 minutes ago, Meow Mix said:

As long as the boys can do basic construction work and the girls can snag husbands or take care of him in his old age, Austin doesn't care.  

As I noted above, Giddy just needs basic math skills that Joy can't teach, like angles. That's enough for construction. The girls just need to learn to cook and clean. Learn fractions for measuring. All bets are off if Joy can teach them. 

[Westiepeach]

2 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

As I noted above, Giddy just needs basic math skills that Joy can't teach, like angles. That's enough for construction. The girls just need to learn to cook and clean. Learn fractions for measuring. All bets are off if Joy can teach them. 

But was Joy ever taught how to cook and clean? How can she teach something she never was taught herself?

[Salacious Kitty]

1 minute ago, Westiepeach said:

But was Joy ever taught how to cook and clean? How can she teach something she never was taught herself?

Joy was Jill's buddy, so I figure she learned plenty before Jill got married.  Ow if she's any good at it is another thing altogether. 

[AstridM]

4 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

As I noted above, Giddy just needs basic math skills that Joy can't teach, like angles. That's enough for construction. The girls just need to learn to cook and clean. Learn fractions for measuring. All bets are off if Joy can teach them. 

She can’t.

Edited November 25, 2023 by AstridM

[auntieminem]

Joy posted a video of camping with her family and a short section of Michelle watching her kids while she and Austin spend some time together.  Joy said 15 of the siblings were there. Of course Jinger and Jill were not there and I didn't see Josiah and Justin is in Texas. At one point James is videoing and pointing out whose campers are there. He said the (really big one) was Jim and Shelly, I assume the kids still at home were staying in that one. I felt sorry for the minor Duggar girls wearing skirts while all the other women were in pants. Joy slept in until 10 one morning so I hope she gets more sleep in days. ETA: Last week Jason posted pics of the camping trip and Josiah was in the pics so maybe she said 15 of her sibs not including herself. 

 If you want to watch here is it.

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by auntieminem
Josiah was there

[dargosmydaddy]

47 minutes ago, auntieminem said:

so maybe she said 15 of her sibs not including herself. 

Josh would be the other missing sibling (thankfully).