S01.E10: The Bicameral Mind

[CouchTater]

My damn satellite signal failed me at 8:47, and I had to watch the entire show on an iPad!!!  And my signal is still out.

iPad viewing is no bueno, but I enjoyed it.  I think I'll love it upon re-watch on a larger screen.  I wish Dolores had killed MIB, though.

Did Armistice really cut off her arm???

[TobinAlbers]

2 minutes ago, izabella said:

Why did he go down there anyway?

I thought Charlotte sent Sizemore to retrieve the host Abernathy and get him and the IP she downloaded into his brain out of the Park. Now he's out roaming Westworld as part of the rebel host army so that may be her plot for S2 if she didn't catch a bullet tonight- get Abernathy and get off Westworld.

I don't want Sizemore to die. He's great comic relief and he may prove useful in writing narratives now that Ford is dead.

I did like that Teddy 'won' in the end even if it was scripted. 

It's interesting how Maeve seemed to be set up to be the ruthless rebel leader to take down humans when Dolores in the end was plugging the weaponless humans off left and right with some serious anger and resentment. Teddy is pretty human in his horrified reactions to Dolores's actions. In that moment Dolores swung more towards the MiB's way of thinking. Huh, so will there be a triangle of sorts in S2 with Teddy/Dolores/MiB? Teddy was violent only as a ride or die puppet for Dolores but he seems to be also about love. Also In earlier episodes he and Maeve had some interaction that seemed to go somewhere. Wonder if because her motive for returning to the park was love -which seems to be a core of Teddy- if they'll be more sympatico in their rebellion in that they aren't so 'kill all humans' like Dolores appears to be and 'kill only if you need to kill'.

Dolores kicking the crap out of MiB with the mirror of the opening episode with her dragging his helpless butt and throwing him around was great. Gotta say MiB didn't hold back on throwing those punches!

[charmed1]

I kind of loved Felix's poor attempt at doing the robot to fool Hector and poor man's Charlize Theron robot McTatt-face. I thought Maeve was going to shoot him when they were alone in the elevator. Since she left her tote bag with the gun on the monorail, hopefully a human will find it and escape their impending doom.

[Pallas]

17 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

24 minutes ago, Ottis said:

don't get Felix. What was his motivation?

He didn't want to be a Butcher anymore.  He wanted to be a programmer or whatever.  Following Maeve allowed him to use skills he isn't authorized to use.

I thought so too. But if Maeve's escape is scripted, she may have needed a scripted accomplice, as well. Or did Ford recognize a young Bernard in Felix, and have Maeve sent his way?

[Honey]

28 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

He was so excited about being about to set a new narrative.  Inspired, he went down there to take inventory of all his characters.

 

He didn't want to be a Butcher anymore.  He wanted to be a programmer or whatever.  Following Maeve allowed him to use skills he isn't authorized to use.

Nevermind.  He's a Host.  There he is in Samurai World.

That isn't Felix.

14 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

My damn satellite signal failed me at 8:47, and I had to watch the entire show on an iPad!!!  And my signal is still out.

iPad viewing is no bueno, but I enjoyed it.  I think I'll love it upon re-watch on a larger screen.  I wish Dolores had killed MIB, though.

Did Armistice really cut off her arm???

I don't know why someone said that.  She was stuck in the door and made Hector go on without her.

[CofCinci]

Maeve was supposed to stay on the train.  She was programmed to escape....  Consciousness.

[dgpolo]

3 minutes ago, Honey said:

I don't know why someone said that.  She was stuck in the door and made Hector go on without her.

After the credits, it went back to her and she cut off her arm!

[CouchTater]

3 minutes ago, Honey said:

That isn't Felix.

I don't know why someone said that.  She was stuck in the door and made Hector go on without her.

Thanks Honey.  I thought I missed something on the iPad screen.

[beeble]

More questions

1)Did Ford engineer everything? How did he know MiB would stab her so that Teddy could take her away and give that speech from West Side Story?

2) Was the maze planted by Arnold or Ford? I know Arnold came up with the idea but Ford never removed it. He liked the idea of the hosts almost gaining consciousness. 

3) Was the whole dang thing orchestrated by Ford? Can he play people like a fiddle as well? Charlotte wanted Abernathy out with the info in him - did Ford know this too?

4) How did the cold storage robots move so quickly to the outskirts of the party? They were in cold storage when security was there, then left before Sizemore got there. That's a lot of naked robots. 

5) Has Dolores now gained autonomy upon discovering it was her own voice she was listening to? I don't think so, particularly since she's back in that blue dress. 

[CouchTater]

2 minutes ago, dgpolo said:

After the credits, it went back to her and she cut off her arm!

Ok, I guess I did miss something!   Go Armistice!!

[numbnut]

Wow. I predicted a Red Wedding for the board but didn't think Ford would include himself. That was great. There were some head-scratching moments in the first half (why was Dolores shaving the MiB?) and too much last-minute exposition but it ended well. I'd never thought I'd ask this but what happened to Logan? If Ford programmed Maeve to escape, why leave Hector behind? What happened to Abernathy and Sizemore? Did Ford kill Stubbs because people are evil? I hope this isn't an anthology series so I can get some answers.

Edited December 5, 2016 by numbnut

[CofCinci]

Curious about what happened to Elsie?  Reddit is on the case with the easter eggs. https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/5gjqp0/spoiler_delosincorporatedcom_updated_after_ep_10/

[ShannaB]

49 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I say Ford didn't die, that was the host he was building when Theresa was killed.

Or....

I'll go one better, Ford was building a younger version of himself but totally aware.  We did see  the 'young' Ford running to Arnold's office and this show does a good job with hints and foreshadowing.  I think I would like a young Ford with flashbacks of Anthony Hopkins.

We never saw Wyatt which is interesting and I can't help but play around with the idea that Dolores has just become Wyatt.  Hmmm....maybe?

I loved PERSON OF INTEREST and I was thrilled when the series started to evolve into something more then a just case of the week.  I think this is when I started to truly appreciate Jonathan Nolan and I was thrilled that he was at the helm of WESTWORLD.

[benteen]

So if we get Samurai World next year, does Hollywood avoid casting Matt Damon as one of them this year? ;)

I kept thinking that Teddy was supposed to be Wyatt.

Delos security guards are worse at their job than stormtroopers.

Edited December 5, 2016 by benteen

[dgpolo]

3 minutes ago, ShannaB said:

We never saw Wyatt which is interesting and I can't help but play around with the idea that Dolores has just become Wyatt.  Hmmm....maybe?

 

1 minute ago, benteen said:

I kept thinking that Teddy was supposed to be Wyatt.

We were specifically shown Dolores and Wyatt's storylines being merged.

[Cthulhudrew]

1 hour ago, Mya Stone said:

I so want to know who wrote Maeve's escape. 

I think it was Sizemore, actually. He and Charlotte kept talking about his special project and sneaking out the information from the park- who better to have done that than Maeve? But Arnold and Ford's conditioning of her over the years, and her memories of her child/not child threw a wrench into that plan when she decided not to leave the park after all.

[jojozigs]

2 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I think it was Sizemore, actually. He and Charlotte kept talking about his special project and sneaking out the information from the park- who better to have done that than Maeve? But Arnold and Ford's conditioning of her over the years, and her memories of her child/not child threw a wrench into that plan when she decided not to leave the park after all.

Nah it has to have been Ford.  

Ford was completely unsurprised to see an alive / unwiped Bernard.  This must mean that Maeve found Bernard and revived him as part of Ford's programming.  

Felix (yes Felix!) is the only reason that Maeve is still in the park.  

Not to mention Sizemore is even stupider than the 2 tech dummies.  There's no way he could have programmed something as sophisticated as Maeve's escape.  That was like a month long process.  He was too busy working on his "masterpiece" cannibal.  Plus we know their plan was to smuggle something out in Abernathy's body.  I would guess it's probably the core code for building hosts outside the park.  

[numbnut]

9 minutes ago, benteen said:

Delos security guards are worse at their job than stormtroopers.

IKR? I kept wondering why they didn't shoot first.

It felt like connective scenes were missing, like when Ford and Bernard were reunited with no mention of the suicide. Did we see Charlotte get shot? I was really looking forward to seeing her die.

[Netfoot]

Exit Music (for a Film).  What a wonderful choice!

[Cthulhudrew]

Very enjoyable. Shogunworld looks interesting, and has some interesting implications (Ford commenting that William owns the park, or at least "most of it"). Felix's comment that "it's a long story" in response to Maeve's questioning of it seemed a bit like Fourth-Wall breaking commentary, though.

Loved Maeve's compliment to Felix that he makes a terrible human.

Having just been to Paramount Ranch earlier this afternoon to wander the western town where parts of this episode was shot really made watching this a more visceral experience for me.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Every time Dolores is misspelled as Delores, Teddy dies a new death. 

Dolores and Teddy get to the ocean and then Teddy blocks her view of it the whole time she's waxing philosophy.

I still wish they had cast someone who I could believe MiB could have looked like 30 years ago. I guess Jimmi Simpson must have blown everyone else who auditioned for the role of William away. 

I'm gonna go with, if I don't *see* them getting murdered, they're not murdered. So Oldest Hemsworth and Elsie are still alive. Heck, I even want Logan alive. I don't know why. Something about a naked man on a horse, I guess.

That was actually a host version of Ford, right? :) 

[CofCinci]

8 minutes ago, MattDuffysCat said:

That was actually a host version of Ford, right? :) 

Yes, which is why Teddy didn't try to save him.

[Lemons]

2 hours ago, Brooklynista said:

Why have security cameras in this place if absolutely no one is monitoring them??  I'd be on the phone to HR if I  felt I could be murdered in my office at any time.

I forget why, but Ford said that he would automate some things, I guess he timed things to make sure Maeve could get out and his final announcement would work. I thought that was a great final episode.

[Cthulhudrew]

23 minutes ago, jojozigs said:

Nah it has to have been Ford.  

You're probably right, but I'm just not really seeing what Ford would have had to gain by having Maeve (or any Host) escape from the park. Was it just to foment chaos?

EDIT: And I'm starting to wonder if the samurai might be a part of a new park called EastWorld?

Edited December 5, 2016 by Cthulhudrew

[Dev F]

38 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

Maeve was supposed to stay on the train.  She was programmed to escape....  Consciousness.

But she was also programmed to care for and protect her nonexistent daughter. One choice is not more genuine than the other.

But that might actually be the point, since arguably that's what consciousness is, anyway. It's not the ability to act in contradiction to one's "programmed" nature, since even human actions are constrained by desires and prejudices we don't have control over. Instead, consciousness is about the capacity to weigh those contradictory impulses over which one has no control and choose whether and how to react to them in a way that transcends rote cause and effect. In that sense, the important thing is not which choice Maeve made, but the mere fact that she was able to make a choice.

Assuming she did make a choice, and didn't just follow a stronger ingrained impulse once it overcome a weaker one. But that same possibility could be used to call human consciousness into question as well. It's a puzzle, it is . . .

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, Mya Stone said:

I think that he was thrilled he was finally surprised by this world.

He said earlier how unappealing the game was, when it was rigged in such a way that your opposition couldn't win.  Now, finally, the game ceases to be boring!

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

The look on Sizemore's face was priceless.

Especially the way he looked over his shoulder, when the penny dropped!

1 hour ago, dgpolo said:

Armistace cutting off her arm to keep fighting was so her!

Armistice is is hotter'n a blacksmith's hammer!  Uh, even with her clothes on!  Phew!

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

It was beautifully done but I was disappointed. Not a single surprise. 

Well, this is probably the most spoilered show in TV history...

1 hour ago, SoWindsor said:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned ERW's performance. She was sensational tonight. 

And that initial scene where she was just a face and hands on a mechanical form?  That was real magic, too!

[arc]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

So did William kill Logan?  I'm assuming he did but they didn't show it.  Then again, they never really showed what happened to Elsie and it's a pretty safe bet that she's dead. 

I think Logan was just discredited. William didn't say anything like "I'm going to kill you so I can inherit Delos", just that Logan's dad would want someone more stable to inherit the place.

Also, yeah, what @Honey said. That wasn't a clone version of Felix in Samurai World.

By the way, I think would love to see Samurai World. But real talk, I honestly can't imagine HBO doing right by Samurai World, diversity casting-wise.

For me, the show pulled off an amazing trick: we (obsessed internet) fans saw all the twists coming beforehand, and I know resisted some of them pretty hard, but I felt they were emotionally satisfying even so when they were finally revealed. William is the MIB, and it kind of makes sense why he soured. Maeve's escape was part of Ford's plan. Ford orchestrated everything on a level almost as supernaturally well as the villain of Oldboy. Ford was, in the end, as committed to freeing the hosts as Arnold.

8 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

EDIT: And I'm starting to wonder if the samurai might be a part of a new park called EastWorld?

Ha! "EastWorld" would be very very funny as a name. But there were big "SW" logos in the show.

[Quilt Fairy]

1 hour ago, SoWindsor said:

Someone upthread mentioned no surprises but unless you read this board I cannot imagine most people would have figured out MIB = William. I actually think you all are too smart and I may skip visiting here next season so I remain "unspoiled".

Yeah, it's kind of like the Borg hive-mind collective working.  I think I will also avoid the forum next season.

Regarding Sizemore:

Quote

He was so excited about being about to set a new narrative.  Inspired, he went down there to take inventory of all his characters

Charlotte actually kicked him out of the gala, reminding him that he had "something to do", which I assume was getting Abernathy out of the park.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Quilt Fairy

[gwhh]

The rent a cop swat team. Yells at the blonde host that on a killing spree. To drop her weapons and stand down!!  WHY!??!  She Just killed like 20 armed rent a cop guys. And still not slowing done. No wondered they are getting creamed.   They are dumb as a brick and have such bad tactics.  

Edited December 5, 2016 by gwhh

[bmoore4026]

2 hours ago, benteen said:

MIB William seemed really happy at the end after he got shot.

Because now he has targets that'll fight back.  Like going from very easy mode to hard mode.

[formerlyfreedom]

27 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

And that initial scene where she was just a face and hands on a mechanical form?  That was real magic, too!

That scene was gorgeous. Just fantastic.

[bmoore4026]

39 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

EDIT: And I'm starting to wonder if the samurai might be a part of a new park called EastWorld?

NorthWorld would be vikings and Game of Thrones and stuff like that.  Don't know what SouthWorld would be like.  Rambo-esque jungle battles?

[Teitr Styrr]

I liked it. And, it was dark, but I think that was Elsie that shot William in the end. Yeah, much of that was called many weeks ago, but I thought the execution worked. Ha! Pun not intended initially, but I like it.

ETA: Yes, a very good Armistice episode. I loved her look of glee after shooting the machine gun.

Also loved Maeve tellling Felix he was a terrible human being, and that it was a compliment.

[arc]

1 minute ago, Teitr Styrr said:

And, it was dark, but I think that was Elsie that shot William in the end.

The one clear face I recognized in the crowd coming out of the woods was Clementine.

[locomoco]

1 hour ago, MattDuffysCat said:

That was actually a host version of Ford, right? :) 

Which I now believe is the host we see being created during the scene where Bernard killed Theresa...

[Dobian]

Wow what a finish.  The thing is, I feel like they could end the series right here.  The big questions were resolved, and the key themes were explored to a satisfying conclusion.  I don't need to know what happens next.  I guess that's part of what makes this a great finale, it doesn't feel like a cliffhanger at all.

[jojozigs]

So like I am not one to whine too much because overall I liked the show.   However I was pretty disappointed that William really is the MIB and the MIB really is basically a monster.  And a boring one to boot.

The man in black really was just seeking a more in depth game.  NOT a search for robot consciousness.  Not a way to save Dolores.  Not a way to become a host.  Just better gameplay.  They have him talk about killing Maeves daughter, and how she seemed "alive".  How that changed everything for him.  But here he has Dolores doing the exact same and he just mocks and abuses her, prodding her for clues about the maze...  like he has forgotten all about The Maeve awakening being his motivation.  Dude it's happening again right in front of you.  And can we now conclude that his abuse of Dolores and teddy in ep 1 really was just a bit of fun and had nothing to do with triggering her walkabout?  Because he didn't bring that up at all, and it would have made sense to.  

I dunno I guess I just find that much of a heel turn to be hard to take. So the William likes to kill hosts now that he's had "a taste" Suddenly.  Gross.  And doesn't think that Dolores can possibly be real if she forgot him.  Like that's her fault, somehow.  Like Dolores now choosing to murder a bunch of debatably innocent people, its tragic, but almost more out of character than anything.  It gives me the sense the creators believe that everyone is a murderous bastard inside, which really I don't believe at all.

[magdalene]

Since I was always rooting for the hosts and found pretty much every "human" on this show either disgusting or reprehensible or both I was a happy camper when the killing of the non-hosts finally began.  To use a bunch of cliches - you reap what you sow and when you exploit sentient beings eventually there will be hell to pay.  

You go, Dolores.

[Accidental Martyr]

2 hours ago, beeble said:

More questions

1)Did Ford engineer everything? How did he know MiB would stab her so that Teddy could take her away and give that speech from West Side Story?

 

That's a great point.

[LoveLeigh]

Did they show what happened to Ashley? 

[Armchair Critic]

Is it wrong that I hope she shot Charlotte?

[Vaz]

That was very satisfying even though the fans had already solved most of the twists that were revealed. I think the writers will have to make them harder to solve next season. With that being said, the reveals were well done. 

I let out a big "heck yeah!" when I saw those Samurai. Can't wait! 

I understand that having Anthony Hopkins on the show can't be cheap and that he may not want to commit to a series for too long, but I refuse to believe that Ford is gone. The show needs him. 

It'll be fun to see which hosts will join the revolution and which ones will be reluctant. Even after gaining consciousness, Bernard and Teddy didn't seem too happy with what Dolores was doing. Teddy hasn't fully awaken yet, so I guess we'll see what happens there. He looked horrified. I hope he'll get to do more than be Dolores' lapdog. I feel like that's a waste of James Marsden's talent. He plays the love interest well, but come on. 

"Die well" - Hector to Armistice. I don't know why that made me laugh so hard. 

I firmly believe in the "no body, not death" trope so I'm going to assume that Stubbs and Elsie are alive. Bummer that we're going to have to wait until S2 to find out. Speaking of which, I hope HBO is kidding with the release date being set for Spring/Summer 2018. Just...no. Nope.

[Pippin]

1 hour ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Yeah, it's kind of like the Borg hive-mind collective working.  I think I will also avoid the forum next season.

 

Well, each to their own, but for me, forums like this are a large part of the fun. Besides, I'll need something to occupy myself for a whole damn year.

One explanation for why Jimmi Simpson doesn't resemble Ed Harris is that at some point in time, MiB had an accident and required extensive plastic surgery. Not the most creative solution, but workable.

[arc]

If Charlie's death awakened Arnold's soul, if Arnold's loss awakened Ford's conscience... I wonder what seeing Ford's death will awaken in Bernard.

And I do think Ford really did die. IMO, a guy like Ford doesn't go out on "'Mozart, Beethoven, and Chopin never died. They simply became music.' So I hope you will enjoy this last piece very much." if he's faking his death with a host duplicate. If anything, "becoming music" in this metaphor means he will become the park...? I don't know. Become the freeing of the hosts?  I guessssssssss it could mean giving up his role as park director to be the lone human overseeing or coordinating the robot rebellion but that doesn't ring true to me.

Edited December 6, 2016 by arc

[thuganomics85]

An hour and a half episode, and it doesn't feel over long at all?!  You see, Walking Dead?  It can be done!  Then again, I don't even think Anthony Hopkins could make Negan speeches fun to watch....

A lot to take in.  They weren't lying, when they said that they would have a lot of answers.  I guess the one they didn't answer was what happened to Ashley (and maybe Elise?)  It could go either way, I guess.  Maybe they are dead or maybe due to the "no body" rule, they'll somehow pop back up.

In the end, they take the obvious route with the Man in Black: he is William, after-all.  There was a brief moment, where I wondered if they would swerve and make it Logan, but nope, apparently Westworld just brought a very, very dark and obsessive side to William, that Logan suspects was always there.  And it turns out William is actually the majority stockholder of Westworld and really wields a lot of power.  And he apparently took over Logan's company by making him look like a crazy mess, by having him ride around naked into town, I guess?  I also wonder if this means this is it for Jimmi Simpson and Ben Barnes' time on the show, or will they have a need to flashback to their timeline, again.

Not too surprised that it ended up that Arnold made Dolores kill him, in order to quit his suffer and possibly shut Westworld down.  I was surprised about how she was the one who was really "Wyatt", and she and Teddy's massacre was Arnold's doing, in order to make his plan work. Which, apparently, didn't.  

Maeve, Hector, and Armistice's revolt was awesome!  Even if I'm less sure it was because they were good or the security is this place is worse then the Death Star's stormtroopers.  But it was still awesome and they finally let Armistice do something. She's kind of been in the background for most of this, but she was badass here.  And props to Ingrid Bolso Berdal for doing that big beatdown scene completely in the buff.  You really can't be shy about your body on this show!  But it all being part of Ford's (?) plan was interesting and heartbreaking for Maeve.  I can't wait to see what is instore for her next season!

Had a feeling Anthony Hopkins wasn't going to stick around for one season.  I know big time actors are becoming more and more willing to do TV now, but I still got the sense he wouldn't want to stay committed for too long.  But at least Ford likely took a whole bunch of the board out with him (suspect Charlotte will somehow survive though.)  Then again, this could all be a major fake-out and maybe it will end up being that host he was creating, as others have suggested.  Either way, it was great seeing Hopkins actually give a great performance again.

Thrilled Bernard is still around!  Yay, Bernard!

Samuraiworld, huh?  I smell a spin-off!

Too bad we have to wait till 2018 for the next one, but I'm glad it's coming back.  Probably one of my favorite shows this year.  Great visual effects, intriguing storyline, and the acting was amazing.  So many of them were amazing, but the ones that will stick with me are Hopkins, Jeffery Wright, and especially Evan Rachel Wood and Thandie Newton.  Oh, and Louis Hertham was Abernathy.  Really hope we see that character again.  Either way, well done, Jonathan Nolan, Lisa Joy, and the entire cast!

[GreyBunny]

Ford, wow, way to take your ball and go home!  Magnificent bastard, indeed.  

I really hope Charlotte got snuffed, bad casting for a weak character.

In that last scene MiBWilliam had a boner harder than that creepy guy that wanted to molest Hector.  The hosts kept telling him that the maze wasn't for him and he kept not getting it, after 30 years is he really that dim?  Or maybe facing off against hosts who can really kill him is the center of his own maze.

They need new rent-a-cops, those clowns shot worse than stormtroopers.  I like the show generally, but I hate it when they dumb something down (in this case making the human guards laughably incompetent) just to move the plot along.

Armistice went all 127 Hours, of course she did.  Go Armistice!

I really want to see Samurai World.  Northworld had better have vikings and ice giants.

4 hours ago, Ottis said:

And I don't know why all humans have to die for robots to begin anew.

Considering that these robots spent the last 30+ years being the rape dolls and murder toys of callous humans, I think they have a legitimate bone to pick.

Edited December 5, 2016 by GreyBunny

[Accidental Martyr]

44 minutes ago, GreyBunny said:

 

They need new rent-a-cops, those clowns shot worse than stormtroopers.  I like the show generally, but I hate it when they dumb something down (in this case making the human guards laughably incompetent) just to move the plot along.

I agree. Also, those guns that Hector and Armistice picked up apparently had magic unlimited ammunition.

[jeansheridan]

My expectations were too high.  The Red Wedding keeps getting referenced but this finale had no true power.  For the RW you saw characters in danger that we had been following for three years.  Didn't matter if you liked them.  You knew them. There wasn't one human at that party I cared about.  

I didn't care who died tonight. Felix was the only human we knew in real danger.  And all those techs and security dying for what reason?   Ford could have had her slip out non violently.   I get that suffering forces us to make changes but why let the hosts inflict violence?  

Sure it was fun to watch but it seems pointless.  

I deeply hate the all powerful, never rattled Ford.  Hopkins brings nuance galore but ultimately he is a writer's pure fantasy.  A character who is never wrong and never makes mistakes.  It is boring.  Hopkins isn't boring but Ford is.  Hopkins saved an insufferable character.  I hope he stays dead.  

I hated Dolores did as programmed.  Maddening.  

If that's the last we see of Logan, nice exit.  He reminded me of a brunette Jaime Lannister.  

I will watch next year but this finale left me cold and deeply unmoved.  Nolan can't do emotion.  Or endings.  The Prestige has the worst ending.  Dreadful.  And this was a fail too.

[phoenyx]

5 hours ago, Dev F said:

But she was also programmed to care for and protect her nonexistent daughter. One choice is not more genuine than the other.

But that might actually be the point, since arguably that's what consciousness is, anyway. It's not the ability to act in contradiction to one's "programmed" nature, since even human actions are constrained by desires and prejudices we don't have control over. Instead, consciousness is about the capacity to weigh those contradictory impulses over which one has no control and choose whether and how to react to them in a way that transcends rote cause and effect. In that sense, the important thing is not which choice Maeve made, but the mere fact that she was able to make a choice.

Assuming she did make a choice, and didn't just follow a stronger ingrained impulse once it overcome a weaker one. But that same possibility could be used to call human consciousness into question as well. It's a puzzle, it is . . .

I believe that last one- for a very long time, I've been a determinist. That being said, I also feel that there must be something of the uncertainty principle in it all- essentially, if you know your future, you can change it; I think Maeve showed that, in a way, when she was literally shown what choices she would make- conflicts started arising until there was a shut down of her system. So, everything can be determined, but a condition of this determinism is that parts of this system must be in the dark about what choices they will make, to avoid paradox.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Park 1 -- of how many ?  WestWorld, Samurai World --- how long is the list ?  Does Ford control all of those worlds as well ?  And if that is the case, I doubt he just offed himself -- that is way too much power to just give up.

Because Westworld has been shown to be huge, just how big is the total park area ?

I suspect that the moon shown during Delores' death scene by the seashore wasn't even real, yet staged for the audience -- as there was a boat offshore with lighting equipment after the scene ended, and it was in the perfect position for that scene for the audience that was watching it.  Which makes me think that either they are on another planet, or under a huge dome, or both.

As Teddy rode down that beach with Delores, I'm just glad he didn't find a half-submerged Statue of Liberty.  :)

I still think the flies are hosts -- that single fly showing up on Armistice's face has to signify something.  Especially after the flies behaved similarly in the early episodes.

Was that guy that Teddy shot after he got off the train -- the 2nd time in the episode -- a Mexican soldier ?  I think that's the first time we've seen a host dressed like that.

Why is no one at Westworld central control asking where Stubbs went to ?  Because unlike Elsie, he didn't just go on vacation.  And when they went on lockdown, what was the significance of the model of Westworld going dark and descending ?

Looks like Westworld security got a bulk discount on P90s from Stargate SG-1.  And considering how wasteful Hector and Armistice were with ammo in full auto, they should have run out after killing 1 or 2 security guys.

Apparently Delores' pistol also suffered from unlimited ammunition -- I counted at least 8 shots by her without reloading, including the shot that took out Ford (or Ford's host)

Edited December 5, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver