S01.E08: Space Race

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

The historic Apollo 11 mission unfolds with a nation watching, but Flynn arrives near mission control and sets out to rewrite the events of that day. The trio need to summon courage as they reach out to an unsung hero to thwart Flynn's scheme.

[dubbel zout]

"Greetings! We come in peace!" Hee.

I'm surprised an NBC show is using footage of Walter Conkrite for the moon landing coverage, but I suppose they want someone who's instantly recognizable.

[Primetimer]

But instead ends up spiraling out of the orbit of credibility.

View the full article

[Shanna Marie]

This was supposed to be the July 1969 landing, right? And they were at Mission Control in Houston? (based on the Houston police patch on the officer who confronted "Agent Mulder") I've worked at Johnson Space Center in July, and all those people walking around in coats would have died of heat exhaustion.

Lucy looked really pretty in 1969 mode.

Shave, dammit, Wyatt.

[benteen]

I figured that was Flynn's mother but didn't expect the kid to be his half-brother.  That was a hell of a risk he took, as changing his mother's past could have wiped him out of existence.  I'm sure the brother will play a factor at some point.

Good episode and a strong one for Rufus.

[xaxat]

13 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Lucy looked really pretty in 1969 mode.

Shave, dammit, Wyatt.

Both of these. Given the white collar nature of NASA, Wyatt looked like a bum. Somebody should have sent him home to sleep it off.

[shapeshifter]

"Agent Mulder." Heh.

I'm fanwanking that the female African American programmer was believed to be hacking into the system at the Commies' request/gun point, and then restored the system after the Commies were terminated by Agent Mulder.

[MisterGlass]

Wyatt certainly didn't look like FBI in a suit but unshaven.

The start of this was interesting with Flynn and Anthony interviewing someone in the present 'for a book' and using that knowledge in the past.  Murdering him after getting his help seemed unnecessary.  And janitorial outfits would be easy enough to come by without another murder. 

I looked up magnetic stripe access cards, and the prototype was made in 1969 per Wikipedia, so the use here seems like an anachronism.

Just for fun, a blog post on Gene Kranz's vests.

[ketose]

This show took a turn for the stupid tonight.

I guess my interpretation of people not being able to travel within their own lifetimes is finally toast. No way Anthony was born after the moon landing.

What the hell was the deal with Flynn saving his half-brother? That should have changed the whole course of his mother's life. Would she really have still met Flynn's father? Lucy lost a sister because of some random marriage. I guess that was worth killing two people and nearly killing a bunch of astronauts.

So, Anthony doesn't want Rittenhouse to get the time machine. A great way to do that would be to DESTROY THE TIME MACHINE. Instead, he made it able to power itself for 300 years.

So, next week, Lucy and Wyatt hook up. I'm sure the preview wasn't misleading at all.

9 minutes ago, MisterGlass said:

Wyatt certainly didn't look like FBI in a suit but unshaven.

The start of this was interesting with Flynn and Anthony interviewing someone in the present 'for a book' and using that knowledge in the past.  Murdering him after getting his help seemed unnecessary.  And janitorial outfits would be easy enough to come by without another murder. 

I looked up magnetic stripe access cards, and the prototype was made in 1969 per Wikipedia, so the use here seems like an anachronism.

Just for fun, a blog post on Gene Kranz's vests.

My dad worked at an Air Force facility in the 1980's. They had electronic cards, and they sure as hell didn't just swipe. You had to stick them into the slot and wait for the system to read it, kind of like the new chip and pin cards. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[KaveDweller]

4 minutes ago, MisterGlass said:

The start of this was interesting with Flynn and Anthony interviewing someone in the present 'for a book' and using that knowledge in the past.  Murdering him after getting his help seemed unnecessary.  And janitorial outfits would be easy enough to come by without another murder. 

Yeah, I thought it was nice to see Flynn and Anthony researching like that. They obviously have much more time to put into planning, but it was good to see their side of things a bit. I also laughed when Lucy commented on how easy it was for Flynn to save his brother while she and Wyatt keep failing at saving their sister/wife.

I enjoyed all the moments with Katherine going on about their great technology with 2 mb of storage and Rufus being less than impressed.

My only issue with this episode is that messing with the moon landing like that should have had a bigger ripple effect than it seemed to. Oh, and why couldn't Anthony just tell Rufus and Lucy what Rittenhouse will do with the time machine?

As much as I like seeing the changes in formula for the start/end, I kind of miss seeing what's happening with Lucy's mother/fiance in the present timeline.

[ratgirlagogo]

Quote

from the recap:the singer of such masterpieces as "(Sitting On) The Dock Of The Bay"

Excuse me?????? That was Otis Redding, AKA the anti-Gaye.  

Rumors similar to those about Here, My Dear have also always circulated around Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music.

Edited November 29, 2016 by ratgirlagogo

[phalange]

This episode replaces last week's episode as my favorite so far. The inclusion of Katherine Johnson was great, and makes me even more excited for Hidden Figures. Nice wink to that with, "They even made a movie about her." Lucy telling that guy, "You're a rocket scientist, figure it out" had me cheering (and made me thankful I didn't grow up in the 60s, because I'd 100% be saying the same and getting myself fired).

Didn't see that twist with Flynn's family coming. I expect them, or at least the brother, to come up again in a future episode. 

LOL at "Agent Mulder." I know some find the pop culture aliases annoying, but I think they're hilarious. Also had a good laugh at the "two megabytes of memory!" scene.

[memememe76]

I like the pop culture references too. But a practical level, it would make it easier for the trio toremember each others' aliases. Easier to remember Agent Mulder than Agent whatever other name.

Must say, I am shocked how much I like this show.

[vibeology]

Anthony can try to act the good guy but we seeing him being a part of murdering a scientist and hearing him talk about trying to strand our team in the past tells me otherwise. He could easily tell Rufus what's going on if protecting the world is actually his goal. 

We know who Flynn's mother is and we'd already confirmed that his daughter is someone else so I think I'm finally safe to ship Flynn and Lucy. Maybe. Certainly if they hook up in the future it would explain why she trusted him enough to give him the journal.

Katherine Johnson was spectacular. (I am so excited for Hidden Figures!) The speech Rufus gave to her was so sweet and she really came through and rolled with the weird to save the mission. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I agree that Lucy really pulled off the '1969 look' and her getting back at that the scientist was awesome, but I am disliking how unattractively whiny they are making her at Mason Industries; "Flynn saved his brother but you won't save my sister, you meanies!".  I mean I get it, "you've got a deal", but to say that right next to the guy who's wife died tragically, and wasn't the first time that's occurred?

Wonder if we're going to see Rufus have a noticeable bout of PTSD after killing the henchman, even though he said he felt fine because he felt nothing from it, and probably need some 'been there, done that' and encouragement from Wyatt to get over it.  Couple of real strong back-2-back episodes for Rufus.

Wyatt and his scruff got sidelined for the most part in this episode, until it came time to take the weekly off-target shots at a fleeing Flynn.  That scene amused me for nonsensical reasons.  Paraphrasing as to how I saw it play out in my head;  "Hi [mom], long time no see (sorta, in a way)"  *shoots at Wyatt*  "I've missed you.  Gotta run, bye"  *jumps off raised deck and runs off*.  Would have been perfect if a distant "see you in a couple years" was heard as he was leaving.

1 hour ago, vibeology said:

We know who Flynn's mother is and we'd already confirmed that his daughter is someone else so I think I'm finally safe to ship Flynn and Lucy. Maybe. Certainly if they hook up in the future it would explain why she trusted him enough to give him the journal.

For this reason I'm going to illustrate, I just am unable to convince myself to get behind a potential Lucy/Flynn relationship. 

Have we learned her age in the show yet?  According to the newly revealed non-redacted information, Flynn was born in 1971 or '72 (if the mission year depicted truly was 1969), making him 44 or 45 currently.  Lucy looks to be mid-30s, at most.  Now usually I don't have a hang-up about reasonable age differences between romantic partners (if both are legal age) - in TV, movies, or real life - but despite his not having any gray hair, for some reason to me GV just looks significantly older than AS.  And even though we know its not true in the show, that he's not her dad, but he looks old enough to have fathered her at a younger age.   So for this reasoning, the pairing would just be a little too weird and offputting for me to look forward to.

That's not to say it won't happen, it could.  I just personally wouldn't be all that eager for or appreciative of it.

ETA:  I guess they could work it so that she meets a younger (early to mid 20s-ish) Flynn somewhere along the way, and they have a relationship, thus the journal.  But that in and of itself would be pretty weird and hard to make believable, even in a totally science fictional tale about time travel.

Edited November 29, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[legaleagle53]

16 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

For this reason I'm going to illustrate, I just am unable to convince myself to get behind a potential Lucy/Flynn relationship. 

Have we learned her age in the show yet?  According to the newly revealed non-redacted information, Flynn was born in 1971 or '72 (if the mission year depicted truly was 1969), making him 44 or 45 currently.  Lucy looks to be mid-30s, at most.  Now usually I don't have a hang-up about reasonable age differences between romantic partners (if both are legal age) - in TV, movies, or real life - but despite his not having any gray hair, for some reason to me GV just looks significantly older than AS.

Yes.  It was revealed several episodes back that Lucy was born in 1983, which makes her 33 to Flynn's 44-45 in 2016.  There's no way he would have fathered a daughter her age at only 11-12.

However, a birth year of 1971-72 for Flynn is problematic because he isn't supposed to be able to travel back to any point in time when he already existed, as he himself reminded Wyatt in the Watergate episode, so unless he was born between June 21 and December 31, 1972 (the date of that mission was June 20, 1972), he shouldn't have been able to go back to 1972 at all.

Edited November 29, 2016 by legaleagle53

[niklj]

This episode cemented my preference for the more formulaic take on these episodes (historical event, Flynn messing it up, them dressing up and going back in time, fixing things and encountering the the historical figures with fun pop culture aliases, coming back and finding out how things have changed). It reminds me of those old '90s shows with Mysteries of the Week. 

Kind of wish Lucy had a stronger antagonist for her speech at the end instead of some guy asking her to get coffee.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

17 minutes ago, niklj said:

Kind of wish Lucy had a stronger antagonist for her speech at the end instead of some guy asking her to get coffee.

I don't think it was until he grabbed her arm, in a general male chauvinistic show of 'servant ownership' ("you're beneath me, so do what I say") way that tipped the scales.  She was going to ignore his request and walk right past him to get the roll of ticker-tape-looking computer information stuff back to Rufus and Katherine.

YMMV on how that scene, and subsequent ones, were viewed.

Edited November 29, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[green]

Just now, Shanna Marie said:

Shave, dammit, Wyatt.

 

Just now, MisterGlass said:

Wyatt certainly didn't look like FBI in a suit but unshaven.

 

Yes and yes.  J. Edgar Hoover would have crucified any agent in 1969 running around with silly stubble on his face.  He would have accused  him of being a hippie in league with the communists or some crazy rant like that that Hoover was prone to.

I did love the Mulder bit though.  I too like the pop culture references.  And why not.  You got to bring some humor to your workplace and the people in the past wouldn't know.  Fun is a good thing.

Just now, ketose said:

I guess my interpretation of people not being able to travel within their own lifetimes is finally toast. No way Anthony was born after the moon landing.

 

Anthony is Flynn's only pilot and so if not on screen he was there at Watergate which was something like 4 years later even.  (Nixon resigned the following year after months of endless hearings etc).

 

Quote

However, a birth year of 1971-72 for Flynn is problematic because he isn't supposed to be able to travel back to any point in time when he already existed

Regards Flynn.  He never ever said he couldn't return to a time when he existed in mere years but rather a time where he existed at the same place as his past self.  He said he couldn't return to a time he was in where he would meet himself  in person flesh to flesh like go back and stop the incident where his wife and daughter were murdered.  Which was the context of that quote as in "I can't go back and stop the murder directly because I would run into myself" kind of thing.

In other words, the key word you quoted was "existed".  You took it as meaning anywhere time in general someone existed.  Flynn meant "existed" as turning up where he physically existed thus creating two of him meeting each other.  He didn't "exist" in Washington DC as a toddler since he was busy "existing" in Europe at that time.  So it was perfectly safe for Flynn to go there and steal the Watergate tape.

The only rule on this show is you can't meet yourself aka you can't go back to where you exist and your past self meets your future self.

Flynn is complicated for sure.  He wanted his mother not to always be sad throughout life as he remembered her being because she had lost her first born to a bee attack.  So he does his personal side quest while Anthony is dealing with the main one which we have no idea how that ties in with all the other stuff as yet.  OTOH he has no problem killing people in cold blood up close and personal. 

Maybe if his mom turned out to be a happier person when raising him now Flynn will find himself a nicer guy when he returns to the present.  Wouldn't that be a nice surprise to have people find they have changed themselves as opposed to just the people around them when they return.  Not that the show would ever do it.  Because how would sweet Flynn end up traveling in time shooting people left and right.

It is obvious Anthony doesn't want to use Flynn's methods but feels he has no other option and acknowledged to Rufus that yeah after what he has done hell is the only place for him.

Loved the Rufus part of the episode and all the stuff about trying to be impressed with 2 MB of memory etc.  More people in America (and Canada etc) have learned about Katherine Johnson tonight through a TV show than through any history books or classes over the years.  Life in America.

Edited November 29, 2016 by green

[niklj]

7 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

I don't think it was until he grabbed her arm, in a general male chauvinistic show of 'servant ownership' ("you're beneath me, so do what I say") way that tipped the scales.  She was going to ignore his request and walk right past him to get the roll of ticker-tape-looking computer information stuff back to Rufus and Katherine.

YMMV on how that scene, and subsequent ones, were viewed.

Yeah I can see that.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

24 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Yes.  It was revealed several episodes back that Lucy was born in 1983, which makes her 33 to Flynn's 44-45 in 2016.  There's no way he would have fathered a daughter her age at only 11-12.

However, a birth year of 1971-72 for Flynn is problematic because he isn't supposed to be able to travel back to any point in time when he already existed, as he himself reminded Wyatt in the Watergate episode, so unless he was born between June 21 and December 31, 1972 (the date of that mission was June 20, 1972), he shouldn't have been able to go back to 1972 at all.

Thanks for the clarification on her age, should have known/remembered that.  And I was not implying that he could have fathered her at 11 or 12 - we know her father was the Rittenhouse guy, anyways - I was just saying that the looks in age difference between the two actors would make it believable in script form if presented that way [ie, a character played by AS was fathered when a character portrayed by VG was 16+ at the time of her conception].

We'll have to wait see on that potential problem.  Was it a writing/continuity mistake, or will the time travel rules governed within this universe be used to explain why it was possible?  Personally, I don't think the creators/showrunners/writers have decided on a hard-set definition of all the rules they will put in place yet.  But that might just be wishful thinking, and the continuity errors might end up being the norm instead of the exception for the duration of this show.

[bros402]

1. Sorry to be a shallow guy, but Lucy looked great in this episode.

2. Flynn made a hell of a risk with that paradox he could've caused.

3. Wyatt would've been tarred and feathered by Hoover for looking like that.

4. If time travel looks how we currently believe it does in the show universe, Anthony had to have been born in the future.

5. I liked how they had the undelivered Apollo 11 speech be given here is the text of "In Event of Moon Disaster"

Edited November 29, 2016 by bros402

[shapeshifter]

About Wyatt's stubble: I would expect any of the men who had been awake for 24 hours focusing on the moon landing to have a stubble. No? And the same would go for soldiers in battle in previous episodes.

I do agree that he should have a close shave in some situations.

[DearEvette]

This one feels like a step back rather than a step forward.  Or rather, no step at all -- more like jogging in place.

At least last week's episode gave the three an opportunity to work through their stuff and gave some face-and-character time to the poor, thankless characters Lucy, Rufus and Wyatt leave behind every week. 

But this was a return to the Flynn story and it feels murky and unsatisfying.

What exactly does stopping the moon landing have to do with stopping Rittenhouse?  I asked this before but what is it about these specific trips to important points in history will actually stop it? Yes, Lucy always gives us a quick precis on ... if this [important event we are at now] doesn't happen then [this will pave the way to this unhappy consequence].  But still...  how does that exactly tell us anything?  The moon landing happened in 1969, by then Rittenhouse was already a power as we know from the 'Watergate Tape' episode (which takes place only 3 years later than this).

On the Flynn side all this episode accomplished was to save his brother who got stung by a bee (although couldn't Wyatt's presence at her house change things up some small way so that younger brother wasn't stung at that exact moment or wouldn't younger brother have been in the house already watching the moon landing if Wyatt weren't there?)

Also let's just kill a NASA engineer and an innocent bystander janitor.

I did like that show talked up Katherine Johnson.  I did not like that her contribution was just to help Rufus understand the hardware and marvel about what to us now is obsolete technology.  By all accounts the woman was a brilliant mathematician.  Why not show her make some critical calculation that made the difference instead of taking the credit for something Rufus did.  TBH, this kinda feels as patronizing to her as all the 'honey' and 'darling' stuff did to all the other women.  And BTW, when did Anthony have time to make a computer virus on and old fashioned reel tape like that that could interface with their computer?

But It is nice we live in the now altered timeline where they made a move about her.

They really need to pull the trigger on this Flynn/Rittenhouse stuff and start moving the story forward or this is just gonna get even more frustrating to watch.

[JackONeill]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

About Wyatt's stubble: I would expect any of the men who had been awake for 24 hours focusing on the moon landing to have a stubble. No? And the same would go for soldiers in battle in previous episodes.

I do agree that he should have a close shave in some situations.

And he should comb his damn hair and button his top shirt button when on duty.  (The real Mulder did.)

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

janitorial outfits would be easy enough to come by without another murder. 

Yeah, killing the plumber seemed needlessly violent. Poor guy.

9 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I enjoyed all the moments with Katherine going on about their great technology with 2 mb of storage and Rufus being less than impressed.

Same here. I also like Rufus's temper tantrum earlier than his toaster had more capacity than anything in the '60s. It's kind of incredible how far and how fast technology has progressed. When they were back in the present, Rufus mentioned that a movie had been made about Katherine Johnson; who on the show is connected to this? This is not a complaint.

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, xaxat said:

Both of these. Given the white collar nature of NASA, Wyatt looked like a bum. Somebody should have sent him home to sleep it off.

Not only that, he was supposed to be FBI - the most straight laced of the straight laced. In almost ever era, a shaved man is acceptable, but not unshaven (in this 'haven't had a chance to shave in days' style anyway). (@shapeshifter came up with a reasonable explanation for this one.) Come to think of it, Rufus' facial hair isn't always era appropriate either, but at least it looks groomed.

9 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

he start of this was interesting with Flynn and Anthony interviewing someone in the present 'for a book' and using that knowledge in the past.  Murdering him after getting his help seemed unnecessary. 

This Flynn tactic makes it unlikely that I'll ever come over to Flynn's side. I don't care how sweet he was to his mother, or how awful Rittenhouse is. He and his crew seem to use murder of innocents as their go-to, when knocking out, tying up, and imprisoning would keep the person out of their hair for the operation. It's not like it wasn't noticed that someone broke into NASA (I mean, Rufus left a dead man behind, after all). And, they couldn't go to a janitorial supply store to buy a plumber's uniform? They had to kill some poor schmo who has nothing whatsoever to do with it?

9 hours ago, phalange said:

LOL at "Agent Mulder." I know some find the pop culture aliases annoying, but I think they're hilarious.

I don't tend to like them, but I was amused that the alias was supplied by Agent Christopher, who doesn't seem the most whimsical of people.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Clanstarling

[green]

Just now, shapeshifter said:

About Wyatt's stubble: I would expect any of the men who had been awake for 24 hours focusing on the moon landing to have a stubble. No? And the same would go for soldiers in battle in previous episodes.

I do agree that he should have a close shave in some situations.

1. No FBI agent would be up 24 hours since they would work in shifts. "Agent Mulder" was not J. Edgar's only employee back then.  Also the FBI had one of the strictest dress codes ever under Hoover.  They couldn't wear any color shirt other than white etc.  Wyatt would have been perceived as the threat as a fake agent immediately with said stubble.

2.  There were none standing around inside of the NASA control room anyway but of course we always wave this stuff away in TV shows.

 3. Even the NASA engineers kept electric shavers in their lockers because no professional worked in America in 1969 with 3 day old stubble on their face.  And none of the NASA engineers (who also worked in shifts) had stubble on their faces either.  Look at the historical photos and video if you don't believe me.  Heck blue collar guys were always clean shaven too.  This three day growth stuff "look" just didn't exist in the areas of the 20th century they have journeyed to ever.  Wyatt stood out like a sore thumb at NASA and no one would have let his "look" pass.

Also if Armstrong and Aldrin were about out of oxygen how did they have time to go walk on the moon finally?  The for real original historic "walk" happened very late night / wee hours of the morning Houston time and they said they only had 6 hours of oxygen on this TV version so by the time it was full day out and then some (she went to the park on her lunch hour with the kid remember) there would have been no oxygen left for the astronauts to breathe.

Edited November 29, 2016 by green

[xaxat]

Could anyone tell if the speech Nixon gave about the possible failure of the mission was based on the real life contingency speech William Safire wrote for him?

Edited November 29, 2016 by xaxat

[vibeology]

1 minute ago, xaxat said:

Could anyone tell if the speech Nixon was giving about the possible failure of the mission was based on the real life contingency speech William Safire wrote for him?

The bit we heard was word for word that speech, which I thought was a nice touch.

[green]

Just now, xaxat said:

Could anyone tell if the speech Nixon gave about the possible failure of the mission was based on the real life contingency speech William Safire wrote for him?

Yes.  See below.

Just now, bros402 said:

5. I liked how they had the undelivered Apollo 11 speech be given here is the text of "In Event of Moon Disaster"

 

BROS402 posted this link just half dozen posts above your question.

vibeology beat me to the answer but I'll leave this so the link gets repeated.

Edited November 29, 2016 by green

[benteen]

7 minutes ago, vibeology said:

The bit we heard was word for word that speech, which I thought was a nice touch.

The show is very good on this kind of detail.

[mocga]

Yep---Otis Redding did sing Dock of the Bay. Which I remembered the second the post went up. Feel free to offer appropriate Marvin songs as a replacement.

[dubbel zout]

56 minutes ago, green said:

Also if Armstrong and Aldrin were about out of oxygen how did they have time to go walk on the moon finally?

Was it because the electrical systems were connected to the computers in Houston? I didn't understand that, either.

[Arynm]

I liked that this episode introduced Katherine Johnson who, until I heard about the movie Hidden Figures, I had never ever heard of. I like to think that I have a pretty good working knowledge of the space program even though I was born in the 70's and she was new to me. I hope that people watch this show and learn a little more about her. Maybe even see the movie.

Of course Flynn just waltzes in and saves his brother. Easy as pie. He has a different set of rules than the others. I don't know how Anthony is there, don't tell me he was born after 1969. Just not possible. So he was either born in the future, which doesn't seen possible, or they just need to stay away from places where they were in the past.

Should be easy to go back and save the wife then right? The sister is a little more difficult.

[MrPissyPuppy]

11 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

 Oh, and why couldn't Anthony just tell Rufus and Lucy what Rittenhouse will do with the time machine?

Because no one in TV Land EVER just flat out tells people anything that might solve the whole problem.  No talkies!  We have to make this last x number of episodes.  

[JackONeill]

I got the impression that Anthony was hiding something. Yes, I know that almost goes without saying. But Rufus said at least twice, and emphatically, in this episode how nice (or words to that effect) Anthony was. I'm wondering if he, too, has some murdered wife or kidnapped son or some other "thing" in the past that he's trying to restore. That will make just about everyone with someone they're trying to find.

[kili]

Quote

Also if Armstrong and Aldrin were about out of oxygen how did they have time to go walk on the moon finally?

I thought they still had a few hours left. It is a risk to let them walk on the moon after all that had gone wrong, but it is why they went there. If there was a chance to walk on the moon, it would be taken.

Quote

Was it because the electrical systems were connected to the computers in Houston? I didn't understand that, either.

They needed the computers on the ground to be able to take off and reunite with the lunar orbiter. Without the on-ground computers, they would have to stay on the planet until they ran out of oxygen. So, there was a time window, I think they just had some time left on it. The NASA scientists weren't effectively combatting the problem, so without intervention by Rufus, they were going to die.

For some reason, I had a hard time watching this episode. I'm like Rufus. I didn't want to see that timeline changed for the worse.

I loved the parts where they were bragging about their awesome computers. Even our lifetime, computers have changed so much. All my life, people have bragged about the latest tech which in a few short years would be boat anchors.

Of course, that is what made the virus seem a little improbable. The memory on that sucker was so small, just do a hard re-boot (turn it off) and re-load the software.  They had hours. Try that first. I don't think computers back then had a persistent memory - you always had to boot up from scratch (boot-strapping) and even if it did, erase the memory. There isn't much to reload. Further, would the computers really be running the communication? People with Hamm radios listened in on the moon landing. Wouldn't the computers mainly be used for calculations? I can see why they would still want the computers in order to be able to re-launch the lunar module, but they should have been able to communicate with it.

I expected Armstrong and Aldrin to have done their moon-walk while the communication was done (and that would have spawned a bazillion conspiracy theories).

[saber5055]

I watched the moon landing on tv live. And I remember computer systems that took up an entire floor of the government building where I worked. And I have never heard of Katherine Johnson so now must do some research. And no female EVER talked back to a man superior (because all men were superiors) unless she wanted to be fired. Lucy could because she was taking the Flying Eyeball home later. But back then, women could only be secretaries, nurses or wives. There were no other careers for them. I also remember "punchy tape." It was a real thing even into the '70s where I "punched it" to use it at my job. And yes, men kept electric shavers at work to do "touch ups" in the afternoon if they had a heavy beard. There were no beards then, nor stubble, Agent Mulder.

Once again, history is changed by random shooting of people who obviously don't matter, while Lincoln, and others, HAVE to be killed so history doesn't change. WTH.

[dubbel zout]

13 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

I also remember "punchy tape."

Same here. I also remember punch cards, as I worked at a tiny automated-payroll-service company in high school, and I sometimes took home the chads (as I guess they were, but we didn't call them that) to use as confetti at football games. That drove my mom crazy because she'd find the stuff all over the house, even though she made me take off my coat outside and give it a good shake before coming in. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I guess my interpretation of people not being able to travel within their own lifetimes is finally toast. No way Anthony was born after the moon landing.

I know, right? And yet, they keep saying "you can't travel back to a time you already existed." Why the repeated contradiction if they won't clarify?

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 He never ever said he couldn't return to a time when he existed in mere years but rather a time where he existed at the same place as his past self.

No, he did not. Nobody on the show has ever said that. That's pure speculation. It makes sense, but nobody on the show has specified anything of the sort. All they have said so far is you can't travel back to a time where you already exist, period. Which they have already contradicted twice.

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So, Anthony doesn't want Rittenhouse to get the time machine. A great way to do that would be to DESTROY THE TIME MACHINE. 

Yeah, this is really starting to get on my nerves. The show has become overly simplistic in its formula. What exactly are Flynn and Anthony trying to do by traveling to all these different historical events to stop Rittenhouse, and if it's just that they don't want Rittenhouse to use the time machine then destroy the damn thing. Easy- peasy. The show is stuck in a cycle of lather, rinse, repeat.

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This Flynn tactic makes it unlikely that I'll ever come over to Flynn's side. I don't care how sweet he was to his mother, or how awful Rittenhouse is. He and his crew seem to use murder of innocents as their go-to, when knocking out, tying up, and imprisoning would keep the person out of their hair for the operation.

I agree with you and it's really disappointing they've chosen to make Flynn such a two-dimensional villain when I had been hoping we'd find out he was actually one of the good guys. They keep destroying any hope of this guy having layers by painting him as such a comic book villain. The show has so much potential and they keep squandering it.

I know you're all ragging about Wyatt's stubble but the thing that really annoyed me was the lack of smoking. We saw Rufus emptying ashtrays and we saw one guy stick an unlit cigar in his mouth after the computer came back up. We also saw a hint of smoke in the foreground but we never saw one single person smoking. This is 1969 people, and it was as ridiculous as the Vegas nightclub where nobody was smoking in 1963. Not possible. 

There's apparently some dumb rule or law that says you can't show people smoking on network TV for some unfathomable reason but they really need to make an exception on a show like this where they keep going into the 60s and yet we don't see a single person smoking. In those days people were smoking at their desks at work, even the secretaries. Why do they have to whitewash the past? Do they really think they have to protect the kiddies from the visual of people smoking? Cripes.

[tennisgurl]

I liked focusing more on the character stuff last week, but I was actually glad to get back to the usual, at least for this week. I wonder how long this show will continue to stick with the format the way it is. There are certainly a lot of important periods and moments in American history, but how many can there be, and how long can it last? 

I loved all the stuff with Katherine Johnson, although I wish she had a bit more to do. I am so pumped to see her movie (so, is the gang here the reason we have a movie coming up?), and I am a big fan of the Space Race, so I was happy to get to see it here. Rufus fanboying all over the mission was nice to see, and I liked how deeply, personally offended he was that Flynn and Anthony were screwing with walking on the moon. Two strong Rufus episodes in a row, I`m certainly not complaining. Speaking of Flynn and Anthony...

So, this had nothing to do with their big stupid plan? Flynn just wanted to save his brother to make his mom more happy? Or was that just a side mission, and he was trying to mess with the moon landing? I really cant take Flynn and Anthony's claims that they're really the good guys seriously when all we see is them killing random innocent people, and talking about how Rittenhouse is the worst thing ever. If Rittenhouse is so bad, tell us WHY damn it! Or show them doing something evil other than ride around in cars looking ominous.  Right now, it just seems like there is no real plan, and its just two assholes running around screwing with people. 

Lucy looked great in her period clothes. In fact, Lucy always looks good in her period clothes every week pretty much. She has a really classic look that works well for a time traveler. Rufus works too, in a lesser way. Wyatt on the other hand, looks way too 2016 to me. As everyone else has said, he really should have shaved before running off to be an FBI agent in the late 1960s. Plus, the dude has the worst aim in the history of ever. Stormtroopers are laughing at him. 

I laughed a bit at FBI Wyatt telling Flynns mom that the guy she was kind of flirting with was a Soviet spy. I was having hard core The Americans vibes. I was like "Flynn cant be a Soviet spy! He didn't have a wig or anything!". Also, they blamed the issues on the communists? Wouldn't that have been a pretty big deal? Wouldn't that have changed thing? Its like when they blamed anarchist terrorists on the Hindenburg explosion, wouldn't blaming some group of people for an act of sabotage be a big deal, more than just an accident or a malfunction? I am still waiting for them to get back to the present and things are just ridiculously different, like American is called Columbia or New Britain or everyone rides around in zeppelins or something. Nothing that radically changes everything, but a noticeable difference other than a few new movies.   

[Dowel Jones]

3 hours ago, green said:

Also the FBI had one of the strictest dress codes ever under Hoover. 

I remember seeing a photograph of an FBI agent/sniper at an airport during an attempted hijacking back in the late 60s/early 70s, I think.  He was set against a brick wall with his rifle on the wall and his coat off, presumably for more flexibility.  He did shoot and kill the hijacker, but I also read later that instead of commending him for his actions, Hoover reprimanded him and banished him off to some out of the way office simply for taking his jacket off.

Maybe the entire reason for Flynn's trip back was to murder the scientist.  He organized the computer malfunction as a distraction, which obviously worked (I think) as the word was out that there was a communist spy in the house who wrecked everything and murdered one of the scientists.

1 hour ago, kili said:

I expected Armstrong and Aldrin to have done their moon-walk while the communication was done

"Oh, hi, Houston.  You're back.  Yeah, we've already been outside.  It's pretty awesome.  What do you want us to do now?"

[AV8n]

According to Wikipedia, during the 1969 moon landing Katherine Johnson was attending a meeting in the Poconos. So who exactly was Rufus working with? Maybe Flynn screwed up the timeline so that she didn't get a chance to shine in 1961-62, hence still working in the basement in 1969.

Got to wonder if Flynn's mom might not have gone to Europe had her first son survived. In which case she never meets Flynn's father.

How can Anthony be from the future if he's the one who built the time machine? Unless he came in another time machine from the future. Head hurts now...

[blackwing]

I enjoyed this episode.  Although I didn't fully "get" some of it, chief of all, what is Flynn's purpose in trying to sabotage the Apollo 11 mission?  Is it that he once again seems to want the United States to fail for some still unexplained reason?  I thought they showed us several episodes ago that he's doing all of this to try and find a way to bring his wife and daughter back to life.

I also didn't really follow the beginning... they interviewed some old guy who said he was there in the control room in 1969 and said he lived in the exact same house since birth.  Then they travel to 1969 to that house and kill the younger version of that man.  What was the purpose of interviewing the old man then?  They must have already known he was there in the control room, otherwise how would they have found his name in the first place?  They could have just travelled to 1969 and killed him then.

I don't mind the stubble on Wyatt.  I think the reason why he always has stubble is because he has such a boyish face that if he didn't have stubble, he would look like he was about 12.   There have been a lot of observations in this forum about how his stubble would be out of place in 1940, or 1960, or whenever.  But this is a show about time travel.  If we can suspend disbelief and accept time travel, why can't there also be a suspension of disbelief that accepts his stubble in time periods when there was no stubble?

Katherine Johnson was great.  I had no idea she even existed.  She was a black woman in the 1960s and didn't let that stop her.  She is inspiring.

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I loved all the stuff with Katherine Johnson, although I wish she had a bit more to do. I am so pumped to see her movie (so, is the gang here the reason we have a movie coming up?), and I am a big fan of the Space Race, so I was happy to get to see it here. Rufus fanboying all over the mission was nice to see, and I liked how deeply, personally offended he was that Flynn and Anthony were screwing with walking on the moon. Two strong Rufus episodes in a row, I`m certainly not complaining. Speaking of Flynn and Anthony...

I would imagine movies take much longer than TV show episodes to plan.  The movie is coming out in January, so I doubt that this episode inspired the movie.  It was likely the other way around.  There was a book about Johnson and others.  Katherine Johnson received the Medal of Freedom in 2015, and the movie based on the book started filming shortly after.

Edited November 29, 2016 by blackwing

[tennisgurl]

7 minutes ago, blackwing said:

It was likely the other way around.

Oh I totally agree. I meant more "did our timeline get changed by our gangs mucking around and now Johnson is finally getting her dues due to time travel?" in a meta way. I agree that the Johnson stuff was partially added because of the upcoming movie, and partially because she is an interesting American figure. But mostly the movie I think :)

[RemoteControlFreak]

2 hours ago, saber5055 said:

And no female EVER talked back to a man superior (because all men were superiors) unless she wanted to be fired. Lucy could because she was taking the Flying Eyeball home later. But back then, women could only be secretaries, nurses or wives. There were no other careers for them.

Not true, actually.  Katherine Johnson is a real person and she was neither a secretary, nurse or wife.  My mom was a scientist in the 1950s. While she was certainly an extreme minority, she wasn't the only one.  There were women in almost every profession by the late 1960s.  Even with the secretary-nurse-wife stereotype, teachers would be included -- also the entire pink collar gamut from maids to hairdressers. 

[dubbel zout]

Lucy knew she'd be leaving soon, so talking back to a superior wasn't going to affect her. It was very low risk for her personally, but it might have improved things for the women afterward.

[iMonrey]

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Got to wonder if Flynn's mom might not have gone to Europe had her first son survived. In which case she never meets Flynn's father.

Have they established that Flynn's father is from Europe? Or are we just assuming, because Goran Visnjic is European? Because I'm not sure Flynn is supposed to be European. "Garcia" and "Gabriel" sound like they were maybe going for Hispanic sounding names. 

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 If we can suspend disbelief and accept time travel, why can't there also be a suspension of disbelief that accepts his stubble in time periods when there was no stubble?

You have to create a believable frame even if you accept a supernatural premise. If Wyatt, Rufus and Lucy were walking around in modern 21st century clothing in the 1700s and nobody noticed, we'd cry foul - right? Same principal. Wyatt can't go walking around in 1969 pretending to be an FBI agent looking like he hasn't shaved in three days. Someone would say something. We shouldn't have to hand-wave that away just because the actor doesn't want to lose his signature "look" (or, the director or producers or whoever don't want him to shave). In the same way, if Lucy goes back in time to the court of Louis XIV with a 2016 hairdo, someone's gonna notice, right? They're supposed to be dressing up to look like they belong in the time period they're visiting. If Wyatt has time to pick out a period appropriate costume and change clothes, he's got time to shave his damn face.

[legaleagle53]

46 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Lucy knew she'd be leaving soon, so talking back to a superior wasn't going to affect her. It was very low risk for her personally, but it might have improved things for the women afterward.

Indeed.  Did you see the subtle smiles on the other secretaries' faces after she told that jerk off?  They may not have said anything, but you just know they were all inside screaming "You go, sister!"