S01.E07: The Traitor

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

When an American track-and-field coach heads to Russia, President Kirkman is thrust into a hostage exchange involving the CIA and the Russian government. Meanwhile, Agent Hannah Wells and Deputy Director Atwood's investigation into the Capitol bombing uncovers information that puts Atwood and his family's life at risk.

 

Edited November 16, 2016 by thewhiteowl
Changed the date

[merylinkid]

Well at least no one accused the President of not being the "real" president this week.   Yeah he got played by the Russians.   But that was just inexperience, not wangsty "I'm not fit" crap.   But good grief is ANYONE loyal to the US on this show?   I half expect the 10 year old to turn out to be a sleeper agent.

This is why they should have told the president from the get go that there were concerns about McLeish.   If they had done that, no power over the FBI, no need to kidnap his son.   

This conspiracy involves waaaaaaay too many people.   It's the guy in the uniform.   It's the lady in the park.   It's McLeish.   And at least one other person.   Too many people to keep it secret.

"Sports are not just for men."   No shit sherlock.   Who wrote this crap?   Someone stuck in a 1950s timewarp?   Really.   A 20 something guy is surprised a woman knows something about sports?  

The Leo story can go away any time.   We don't care.  This is about who blew up the capitol and the new president adjusting to his role.   Not as the White House turns.

[Frozendiva]

I really miss Aaron Sorkin's White House.

Too many people in the conspiracy make it unwieldy and unstable.  Too many wildcards. Too easy to collapse.

As the White House chips/rots.

[Danielg342]

OK, so I know I said a while back that this show needs to have multiple storylines and several angles and how it needs to stop having "case of the week", straightforward procedural stuff.

...but, my gosh...that was just too much tonight.

Too many things going on and not enough time to breathe or process any of that...it's like the show took my advice and hopped it on drugs.

(Sorry, bad pun, I know)

Where to begin?

Aww...President Kirkman tells his son he loves him. It was so sweet of him, I got a toothache afterwards.

At least Seth showed he was a real friend and went to bat to save Leo the embarrassment. That was a real highlight.

Didn't see the Brad Weston reveal coming...but I also wonder why the Russians would draw attention to him by faking an arrest. I guess I could fanwank he never told Russia he worked for the CIA, but after Russia finds out...why not send him on that plane to London? That way, the CIA never learns that Weston is a double agent and they can continue fooling the U.S.

I'd say that's headslappingly bad of American officials that Weston really made no attempt to hide his status...but the real life CIA has been headslappingly bad.

Point for reality, I guess?

I'm also calling that Peter MacLeish had nothing to do with the bombing and is being coerced into being involved in the conspiracy in some way. It's too much of a coincidence that he and Jason Atwood had similar cases where their kids disappear.

(I also believe it's lazy conceptualizing that the writer thought "we'll blackmail Atwood into the conspiracy by deciding at this moment that he has a kid!" Um, guys...shouldn't this stuff be decided before the Pilot gets shot?)

Not yet ready to call the Capitol Bombing the Red John of this show...I mean, this a conspiracy against a government, not one person, so there'd have to be a lot of people involved.

However, if it's not careful...that smiley face is going to cast a long shadow on this show, won't it?

Episode Grade: B-. I wound up liking it but way too many things are happening at once. Gotta tone it down.

[KLovestoShop]

I had no idea the network was putting this show on hiatus. I HATE that networks are doing this more and more.  It's no wonder that people lose interest in good shows when they disappear for three months.  

[The Wild Sow]

59 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I'm also calling that Peter MacLeish had nothing to do with the bombing and is being coerced into being involved in the conspiracy in some way. It's too much of a coincidence that he and Jason Atwood had similar cases where their kids disappear.

Agreed.

1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

Point for reality, I guess?

Speaking of reality though....the math doesn't work.  MacLeish became a Congressman at age 28 (stated a few shows ago.)  He's a "3rd term Congressman from....Whositstown Oregon ..." (stated tonight.)   State of the Union address takes place in January or February (tradition.)  Bombing was 6 weeks ago (stated last week, and again tonight.)  So the show's setting is probably March of whichever year it is.  Plus, pro hockey and basketball season, no mention of baseball or football, which also fits with a late winter/early spring setting.

A Congressional term is 2 years (reality!)  First term at 28, 2nd at 30, 3rd at 32....Oops, it seems Congressman MacLeish can't be any older than 33 or maybe recently turned 34.  Regardless, he's not 35, so he's not eligible for the Veep-ship because he's not eligible for the Presidency!  And THAT, show, is REALITY.

I thought he looked pretty young.  The actor's 32.

Anyone else need some nits picked? ;-)

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, since they went out of their way to remind us about MacLeish's child disappearing, I'm guessing he's on the same boat as Jason: being forced against his will, instead of actually being involved.  This whole conspiracy aspect is getting a bit convoluted now, to say the least.  Also, I can't place the actress playing Mysterious Lady at the Park, but I've seen her somewhere.

Even if he ended up getting played at the end, Kirkman trying to wheel and deal the Russians and the Saudis was probably one of his better moments, since he was actually acting presidential and even showing confidence in his abilities for once.  But I should have known him being such a big fan of Weston would mean the guy would end up being a spy.  Poor Kirkman just can't catch a break, huh?

Will they please wrap up this Leo storyline.  Although, I do think he will end up being the other guy's, because Erik Palladino (playing the scumbag that he's perfected at this point) does look like he could be related to Leo.

Really, Aaron?  It's that shocking at Emily watches and is knowledgable about basketball?  Can't wait till next week when he finds out she watches Marvel movies, and it blows his mind that women like comics.

With Jason likely under the mysterious group's thumb, I guess it will be up to Hannah to try and figure this out.  I wonder if they know how much she knows?

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

OK, so I know I said a while back that this show needs to have multiple storylines and several angles and how it needs to stop having "case of the week", straightforward procedural stuff.

...but, my gosh...that was just too much tonight.

Too many things going on and not enough time to breathe or process any of that...it's like the show took my advice and hopped it on drugs...

So, we can blame you for all the plates in the air? Heh.

If Hannah wasn't disqualified from being a red shirt, she would've died right after leaving the voicemail. Maybe they'll put her in a coma.

I wonder if the First son will commit sucide for any of the various reasons the writers have given him.

ETA: The show director should've told Malik Yoba (fibbie director Atwood) not to keep looking over at Macleish to signal to the POTUS that he couldn't say more because of Macleish being there if the POTUS was not going to take the hint.

Edited November 17, 2016 by shapeshifter

[scarynikki12]

I wish they'd just go ahead and pair Aaron and Emily.  Their little smiles about each other are cute but it's not like we don't know they'll get together.  I'm sure the plan is for one to be accused of being part of the conspiracy when they do but there's more DRAMA!! if they've been dating for a while and gotten emotionally involved when it all starts. 

Glad they mentioned elections coming up in the next week so maybe we'll finally start seeing some drama in the form of old fashioned legislative battles. 

I really want Hannah to just take Deputy Director's access pass, walk into the Oval and lay it all out for Kirkman.  Stop caring if MacLeish, or Alex, or the senior staff, or the personal aides, or whoever is also in the room.  Kick them out if they don't have the clearance and, if the accused is standing there, just flat out say it.  I agree that MacLeish will turn out to not be involved (though I'm on the side of believing his wife is) but the Oval was the safest place to out him as a suspect due to the Secret Service and press proximity.  Now DD is going to lie ad nauseum to protect his family and the truth will just be drawn out.

[mertensia]

Well, they can get around the age gaff by not having the terms be consecutive. 

[BW Manilowe]

2 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

I had no idea the network was putting this show on hiatus. I HATE that networks are doing this more and more.  It's no wonder that people lose interest in good shows when they disappear for three months.  

It's just going on hiatus until we get past most of the holidays; pretty much every show does it this time of the year, because everybody gets too busy to watch new episodes of shows & networks have special programming they want to air. It got picked up for a full season already, so it'll be back at some point. If I can find out when, I'll post. IMDb says the next new ep is supposed to air November 30th.

Edited November 17, 2016 by BW Manilowe
To add info.

[The Wild Sow]

3 hours ago, mertensia said:

Well, they can get around the age gaff by not having the terms be consecutive

I thought of that but it would be kind of odd.  Who is he; Grover Cleveland? ;-)

[marinw]

Ok. So if Track Coach Double Agent was going to stay in Russia all along, why did Russian Diplomat Guy bother negotiating for his release? Did he foresee the three-way prisoner exchange? And why not let coach go home to maintain his cover?

At least they were sort of talking about economic policy at some point.

I never did count on this show for realism. And now I don't even know what constitutes "Real" American Politics anyway.

Edited November 17, 2016 by marinw
Spelling

[Princess Lucky]

I'm really loving this show.

I cackled when McLeish was revealed in that office! I'm still laughing. Atwood (hey, I finally learned Malik Yoba's character name!) was all set to make the reveal, after Maggie Q rightfully pressed him, but then oops, there's McLeish, right there! That was unexpected (even though they did set it up) and hilarious.

Same goes for Maggie Q's eyes bugging out when McLeish popped up at the FBI offices. I wonder if I can get a gif of that moment.

And finding out that coach was a CIA asset? Hilariously complicating that "random" case? And THEN finding out he's a double agent? I loved every minute of it.

Oh and the creepy kidnapper (I love Mariana Klaveno) getting to Atwood like that? Controlling him, from now on?

That's a level of camp/over-the-top shenanigans I wasn't expecting from this show. And I'm very pleasantly surprised. They keep throwing out these funny twists, some of which are just entertaining, and some plot-related. It's annoying to have a show stalling just to maintain suspense (e.g. keeping McLeish's involvement from the POTUS), but when they come up with campy twists to delay a storyline's conclusion, that can be a lot of fun.

The FBI side of the show remains more interesting than the White House side, and it's because of Maggie Q and Malik Yoba (and McLeish, frankly). I never thought I'd feel that way, and it's to the show's credit that I do.

I love how the paternity scandal was resolved(?) with the least possible amount of screentime for the dumb son. It was tedious, but Kiefer did great with the emotional, quiet moments, so I didn't mind it. And I agree, the kid is Erik Palladino's for sure (great casting, both for the resemblance to the kid and for getting another solid dickface performance out of him). That's what Kiefer was realizing, when he was saying "I love you." That kid looks nothing like him.

I do think the reporter is sincerely into Seth. And I'm here for that. Plus we found out she's on the level, she got the info about the son legitimately. May they date and continue to be cute.

I am eagerly awaiting the reveal that Wyatt is a mole, by the way.

7 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

I'm also calling that Peter MacLeish had nothing to do with the bombing and is being coerced into being involved in the conspiracy in some way. It's too much of a coincidence that he and Jason Atwood had similar cases where their kids disappear.

Joining the chorus. That's gotta be it. I wouldn't have put it together if Atwood hadn't mentioned it. The actor who plays McLeish is doing a great job, in retrospect. He does come off shady, but that may just be excitement (he's getting good info to feed to his blackmailers) or panic (when things seem to be going south, and he thinks he's doomed). I like it. I wonder who's behind it all, and how Catalan is involved (if he's a mercenary, that means someone hired him, right?).

5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Even if he ended up getting played at the end, Kirkman trying to wheel and deal the Russians and the Saudis was probably one of his better moments, since he was actually acting presidential and even showing confidence in his abilities for once.  But I should have known him being such a big fan of Weston would mean the guy would end up being a spy.  Poor Kirkman just can't catch a break, huh?

Agreed. This was some solid POTUS-ing by Kirkman. Down to that last chess comment/diss. I like it when he's commanding and badass but still gets bested because he's a little too trusting since he's not a "real" high-caliber politician just yet.

4 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I really want Hannah to just take Deputy Director's access pass, walk into the Oval and lay it all out for Kirkman.  Stop caring if MacLeish, or Alex, or the senior staff, or the personal aides, or whoever is also in the room.  Kick them out if they don't have the clearance and, if the accused is standing there, just flat out say it.  I agree that MacLeish will turn out to not be involved (though I'm on the side of believing his wife is) but the Oval was the safest place to out him as a suspect due to the Secret Service and press proximity.  Now DD is going to lie ad nauseum to protect his family and the truth will just be drawn out.

I have a feeling this will happen (Hannah going straight to Kirkman) after she realizes Atwood is unwilling to move forward. I think we'll see them arguing for a couple of episodes, and he'll tell her to back off, and she'll get frustrated and go straight to Kirkman. I can't wait for that.

[Happy Harpy]

Agree on Kirkman being played but not put down. And finally he was proactive and self-confident, I loved the scene with the ambassadors, so I can take this kind of setback. More of this Kirkman, less of President Carebear, and I'll go on watching.

Seth might be able to spin the traitor story a bit, and I like him with the journalist. She doesn't seem so bad after all, he is no innocent wide-eyed child either, and they seem to respect each other.

Love the Aaron/Emily team (although yes, I rolled my eyes at the "gurl loves sport?!"). They're supposed to help the President, they actually do. When he says "I don't know how", they offer him solutions or hints.  One drop of realism.

Alex, her smarmy ex, her spawn and the family drama can go away anytime. When I saw Leo's picture behind Kirkman in his office, I knew the episode would "treat" us with his presence. I cheered when Aaron had to admit to Kirkman that Alex hid the problem from him (and he still doesn't know about the drug dealing...). But since she was on her high horse again, I fastforwarded most of those scenes.

Loved Hannah, the show is better for more Hannah, and the investigation/thriller plot takes off at last. Yep, they put too much energy into making McLeish look shady for him to be a villain. His nosy attitude and nervousness are as well explained by desperation to protect his family.

Nevertheless, I read a Maggie Q interview on TV Line and it seems that the writers compare her character's meeting with Kirkman to "the kiss". I didn't get the feeling that it will happen anytime soon (no spoiler, just my impression)...which would be a pity. For me, the problem for DS isn't sustaining the plot on the long run (I think they have more than enough material) it's being compelling on a weekly basis and on the short term. If the writers think of playing coy with viewers instead of thinking of what would be organic for the show, I'm afraid the inequal pacing  and writing issues (that exist imo) won't be solved anytime soon either.

I don't think that a hiatus affects a show, if said show has an audience. Considering the off the charts DVR results, it isn't as if people forget about DS 's existence. Many just choose to not watch live, imo. Last week might have been an exception, I think people might have suffered from presidential fatigue. But being compelling/thrilling while there's still a huge potential audience would be a good idea. This episode was a step in the good direction, though.

[mertensia]

1 hour ago, The Wild Sow said:

I thought of that but it would be kind of odd.  Who is he; Grover Cleveland? ;-)

They could say something like "he took two years off following cancer surgery" for a legit, voter-sympathetic reason. Or his wife had cancer.  People here in Tucson, by and large, were untroubled that we were unrepresented while Gabby recovered (a recall election failed). 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

...I do think the reporter is sincerely into Seth. And I'm here for that. Plus we found out she's on the level, she got the info about the son legitimately. May they date and continue to be cute....

I, OTOH, see her smiles as fake; I think she's playing him. We didn't see him get permission to leak the spy story in exchange for not running the paternity story, for which I expect the other shoe to drop.

 

2 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

...The FBI side of the show remains more interesting than the White House side, and it's because of Maggie Q and Malik Yoba (and McLeish, frankly). I never thought I'd feel that way, and it's to the show's credit that I do....

The three are all, IMO, stronger actors than those in the POTUS 's sphere.

 

The son looks a lot like the mom, so I'm still expecting that after a lot of drama that it will turn out that he is Kirkman's biological kid.

[Primetimer]

Blackmail demands, paternity questions, double agents, and the ongoing conspiracy bedevil President Kirkman.

View the full article

[Amy Beth]

I'm still thinking that McLeish's wife is somehow in on things. I was listening to her "how we met" story for a subtle clue, something hinky about it, but I got nothing.

[Netfoot]

11 hours ago, The Wild Sow said:

Regardless, he's not 35, so he's not eligible for the Veep-ship because he's not eligible for the Presidency!

There's an age limit on the presidency?  Maybe he can get around it by simply not producing his birth certificate.

5 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

I don't think that a hiatus affects a show, if said show has an audience.

Person of Interest's penultimate series consisted of 22 episodes.  The first aired on Tuesday 23rd September, 2014.  They skipped a week (4th November, then they skipped two weeks (2nd and 9th December), aired a single episode then skipped another two weeks (23rd and 30th December), showed two episodes, skipped two weeks (20th & 27th January), showed four, skipped one (3rd March), showed one and skipped one (17th March), showed one, skipped one (31st March), showed two, skipped one (21st April), and showed the final two.    The 22-episode series took 33 weeks to air, due to there being EIGHT skips, breaks, jumps, hiatuses, or whatever you want to call them.  How could this not have affected the audience?  

[piequinn35]

Has Hannah talked to Kirk in this show before like congratulations or whatever, if not, this will be the suspense about her telling Kirk about MacLeish and Catalan before or after Mac becomes VP.

When is the next ep?

[blackwing]

I'm enjoying learning more and more about what is going on, although I have to say I'm a bit disappointed to find that this show is not gripping me as much as it did in the first two episodes.  I knew that is wasn't going to be 24-redux with Kiefer as President, but I did think there was going to be a little more action from the supporting players.  Instead it's just all political meetings and doublecrossing and political intrigue.  There needs to be more excitement.

The subplot with the basketball coach was just boring and unnecessary.  I guess the point was to show that Kirkman is inexperienced, but just like when he took 100% responsibility for the death of that soldier on the Nassar raid, I don't understand why he felt like it was his fault.  The President doesn't make decisions on his own... he had a team of advisors that were directing him.  The whole plan with the Russians and the Saudis was cooked up by Emily, not him.

10 hours ago, mertensia said:

Well, they can get around the age gaff by not having the terms be consecutive. 

7 hours ago, The Wild Sow said:

I thought of that but it would be kind of odd.  Who is he; Grover Cleveland? ;-)

It's not quite so odd.  One of the most talked about "battleground" House races this election year was for a seat to represent the northern suburbs of Chicago.  The Republican and the Democrat have now swapped the seat three times.  First it was Bob Dold, then he got beat two years later by Brad Schneider. then Dold beat Schneider two years later, then Schneider just beat Dold.

13 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

I had no idea the network was putting this show on hiatus. I HATE that networks are doing this more and more.  It's no wonder that people lose interest in good shows when they disappear for three months.  

ABC has been doing a lot of this in recent years... all of their shows go on winter hiatus and the network uses the time to introduce new shows.  I agree that it grinds things to a halt to the point where when the show comes back I have to go to Wikipedia to remember what happened.  But at the same time, it usually gives me time to catch up on my Netflix backlog!

[merylinkid]

4 minutes ago, blackwing said:

 

I'm enjoying learning more and more about what is going on, although I have to say I'm a bit disappointed to find that this show is not gripping me as much as it did in the first two episodes.  I knew that is wasn't going to be 24-redux with Kiefer as President, but I did think there was going to be a little more action from the supporting players.  Instead it's just all political meetings and doublecrossing and political intrigue.  There needs to be more excitement.

The subplot with the basketball coach was just boring and unnecessary.  I guess the point was to show that Kirkman is inexperienced, but just like when he took 100% responsibility for the death of that soldier on the Nassar raid, I don't understand why he felt like it was his fault.  The President doesn't make decisions on his own... he had a team of advisors that were directing him.  The whole plan with the Russians and the Saudis was cooked up by Emily, not him.

10 hours ago, mertensia said:

Well, they can get around the age gaff by not having the terms be consecutive. 

7 hours ago, The Wild Sow said:

I thought of that but it would be kind of odd.  Who is he; Grover Cleveland? ;-)

It's not quite so odd.  One of the most talked about "battleground" House races this election year was for a seat to represent the northern suburbs of Chicago.  The Republican and the Democrat have now swapped the seat three times.  First it was Bob Dold, then he got beat two years later by Brad Schneider. then Dold beat Schneider two years later, then Schneider just beat Dold.

13 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

I had no idea the network was putting this show on hiatus. I HATE that networks are doing this more and more.  It's no wonder that people lose interest in good shows when they disappear for three months.  

ABC has been doing a lot of this in recent years... all of their shows go on winter hiatus and the network uses the time to introduce new shows.  I agree that it grinds things to a halt to the point where when the show comes back I have to go to Wikipedia to remember what happened.  But at the same time, it usually gives me time to catch up on my Netflix backlog!

 

Taking this over to small talk.

[Happy Harpy]

18 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

Person of Interest's penultimate series consisted of 22 episodes.  The first aired on Tuesday 23rd September, 2014.  They skipped a week (4th November, then they skipped two weeks (2nd and 9th December), aired a single episode then skipped another two weeks (23rd and 30th December), showed two episodes, skipped two weeks (20th & 27th January), showed four, skipped one (3rd March), showed one and skipped one (17th March), showed one, skipped one (31st March), showed two, skipped one (21st April), and showed the final two.    The 22-episode series took 33 weeks to air, due to there being EIGHT skips, breaks, jumps, hiatuses, or whatever you want to call them.  How could this not have affected the audience?  

Small talk it is, too.

[marinw]

"There is nothing more dangerous than a pawn that thinks it's a queen."

What does that even mean? I'm guessing that giving low-ranking people the illusion of power is hazardous. Or something.

[Biggie B]

Quote

 

"There is nothing more dangerous than a pawn that thinks it's a queen."

What does that even mean? I'm guessing that giving low-ranking people the illusion of power is hazardous. Or something.

 

Isn't the queen the most powerful chess piece? I took his comment to mean - Someone who has delusions of grandeur and power is someone who will act the most recklessly and do the most damage...but the damage may be to himself.

I guess you could interpret it in different ways: either the President was talking about himself/the U.S. ("We'll come at you with full force, might as well!") or he meant it as a warning to the Ambassador ("You think you're so powerful? You may screw yourself if you don't watch it."). It sounded cryptic enough to perhaps be moderately threatening.

[marinw]

Thank you Biggie B. I like it when Kiefer says interesting things.

[marinw]

LIke others who have posted here, I am enjoying a more self-confident Kirkman. Kiefer is capable of weapons-grade woobiness. It worked on 24 as Jack's moments of emotion and vulnerability were preceded and followed by long stretches of sheer badassary. On Touch he was pure woobie until that show's PTB turned Martin into a stupider Jack Bauer. On Designated KIrkamn has been on the woobie side but we are getting some signs of the badass he is growing into. I hope.

Edited November 17, 2016 by marinw
Auto Correct Haliaity

[Dowel Jones]

In chess rules, if you are able to move your pawn all the way to your opponents last row, the pawn is then given the same movement abilities as the queen.  If you still have your queen, you now have two very powerful pieces on the board.  To quote the German sergeant in the movie Stalag 17, "Ach, sooo."

I would think Aaron would keep his budding relationship with the reporter a little more discreet for now, rather than sidling up to her directly after the press conference, and acting like no one else in the room might have noticed.  That kind of favoritism will make it to the media in a hurry.

I was hoping that the President, or his staff, would have the CIA dope up some really good spy story on Leo's bio dad, and use him as the trade bait.  Problem solved.  As it is, the question is moot anyway.  I wonder if Weston knows anything about the plot against the Presidency.

[calipiano81]

Why is Leo's parentage such a big deal? It happened 18 years ago and has no bearing on Kirkman and his ability to do the job of president. Just tell Leo immediately and who cares if Alex's ex-boyfriend gives the story to the press.

It might be embarrassing for the First Lady for awhile, but I don't think it's something anybody can hold against the president, and it doesn't seem like something worth giving in to blackmail for.

[OtterMommy]

I just don't know about this show.  I can go with there being multiple threads that will ultimately tie together, but right now I feel like they are just throwing everything that comes into their head at this show.   We're starting to get so many things that it is hard to even keep them straight.  

I mean, I get it...Catalan is bad.  I don't need Atwood's kid being kidnapped to bring that home.  Also, they had better tie in the track coach pretty darn quickly because, right now, that is about as relevant as Leo's drug dealing.  By the way, what is up with Leo's drug dealing?

And, if the paternity thing was so bad (which I just can't see that being the case), why doesn't Kirkman just do a paternity test so at least they know where they stand.  Then, they can either tell the world that the guy claiming to be a bio dad is not (and is trying to manipulate the President), or they could go forward with a story--basically the truth--about how Kirkman loves his son, no matter what, which would probably earn him a few likability points. 

But, honestly, anything involving the kids is just pointless....

[paigow]

Atwood is going to end up like Captain Terrell [Paul Winfield] in Wrath of Khan... Coerced assassin kills self rather than Kirk[man]!

[blackwing]

I'm curious as to why the actors who play Mike Ritter (who? he is apparently Kirkman's secret service agent) and Leo are listed in the main cast under the "starring" designation, yet are barely on the show.  And yet Malik Yoba (who I would consider a minor "name" name in the TV world) and the actor who plays Congressman MacLeish have been on almost every episode and are still listed under "guest starring".  Not sure if this means anything, whether something sudden is going to happen to them or not and they will be gone from the show.  Atwood has been featured just as much as Maggie Q's Hannah.

[Princess Lucky]

21 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I'm curious as to why the actors who play Mike Ritter (who? he is apparently Kirkman's secret service agent) and Leo are listed in the main cast under the "starring" designation, yet are barely on the show.  And yet Malik Yoba (who I would consider a minor "name" name in the TV world) and the actor who plays Congressman MacLeish have been on almost every episode and are still listed under "guest starring".  Not sure if this means anything, whether something sudden is going to happen to them or not and they will be gone from the show.  Atwood has been featured just as much as Maggie Q's Hannah.

I KNOW you did not forget Mike "It's good to hear your voice" Ritter, who got shot last week (or so), right before he was supposed to go bowling with his brother(?). And Kirkman was super-worried and called him at the hospital, all "Hi Mike, it's the POTUS" and Mike was like "I know"? That's a bromance for the ages.

But I never noticed that. I get why they'd have the actor who plays Mike as a regular, and Leo too, I guess, because they want to be able to use them whevener it's necessary (which for Leo is never, but I digress). I do know Malik Yoba is not a regular, and I feel the same way, his part is as meaty and important as Maggie Q's, so I'm always worried something terrible is going to happen to him. McLeish kind of strikes me as fodder (though the actor is doing a great job, and that's the most interesting storyline right now). I don't expect McLeish to last that long on the show, but I guess that depends on the pace of this first season. Also, if he is a good guy being blackmailed, he could always join forces with the good guys. I'd love to keep both of them on the show permanently, they are some of the strongest performers.

[Danielg342]

16 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

So, we can blame you for all the plates in the air? Heh.

LOL...would be nice. It would mean that at least one showrunner reads these threads.

In which case...showrunners, holler at your boy here....I can write too. *big toothy grin*

[shapeshifter]

52 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I'm curious as to why the actors who play Mike Ritter (who? he is apparently Kirkman's secret service agent) and Leo are listed in the main cast under the "starring" designation, yet are barely on the show.  And yet Malik Yoba (who I would consider a minor "name" name in the TV world) and the actor who plays Congressman MacLeish have been on almost every episode and are still listed under "guest starring".  Not sure if this means anything, whether something sudden is going to happen to them or not and they will be gone from the show.  Atwood has been featured just as much as Maggie Q's Hannah.

Oh dear. I hope the "guest starring" role doesn't come with a red shirt, because Malik Yoba and Ashley Zukerman are my favorite actors/characters on the show.

[secnarf]

5 hours ago, Amy Beth said:

I'm still thinking that McLeish's wife is somehow in on things. I was listening to her "how we met" story for a subtle clue, something hinky about it, but I got nothing.

I like the actress who plays her - I know her from X Company - so it's hard for me to see her as 'evil', but I was also getting those vibes.

Also, I feel like I've been told (e.g. through promos) that McLeish is in on everything, but I've never been convinced, and was actually surprised at the promo voiceover saying "We know he (McLeish) is in on it" or something to that effect. And then this week, maybe because of the promos, I thought he looked really shady.

Did Hookstraten get kidnapped also? She seems to have vanished.

I dislike the whole Leo storyline, but if you're going to introduce a storyline, it needs a resolution. Okay so Kal Penn's character got the reporter to hold the story. But apparently Alex's ex has been shooting off his mouth to anyone who will listen, and what's to stop the story from getting out some other way, through some other reporter? I totally agree that Leo looks much more like Alex's ex than he does Kirkman.

Overall, I feel like this episode was a vast improvement over last week, but a bit too much going on. I could have done without the kidnapping plot.

[Dowel Jones]

I hope the FBI chief ropes in some off book associates to help him out of this kidnapping mess.  By that I mean, someone who can track down any of the crew and remove them to an "interrogation" site.  Although the woman did say that if anything happens to her, his family would die, is she that dedicated to the cause to give her own life in the process? Or would she start naming names?

[calipiano81]

As FBI Director, I too hope that Atwood has some tricks up his sleeve and can get a one-up on these people holding his son. But then again, these people did blow up the Capitol without warning...

Edited November 18, 2016 by calipiano81

[KaveDweller]

4 hours ago, Biggie B said:

Isn't the queen the most powerful chess piece? I took his comment to mean - Someone who has delusions of grandeur and power is someone who will act the most recklessly and do the most damage...but the damage may be to himself.

I guess you could interpret it in different ways: either the President was talking about himself/the U.S. ("We'll come at you with full force, might as well!") or he meant it as a warning to the Ambassador ("You think you're so powerful? You may screw yourself if you don't watch it."). It sounded cryptic enough to perhaps be moderately threatening.

I also thought he could mean that in chess queens are considered worth protecting. Pawns get sacrificed. So I think he was telling the Ambassador not to feel comfortable.

3 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

Why is Leo's parentage such a big deal? It happened 18 years ago and has no bearing on Kirkman and his ability to do the job of president. Just tell Leo immediately and who cares if Alex's ex-boyfriend gives the story to the press.

It might be embarrassing for the First Lady for awhile, but I don't think it's something anybody can hold against the president, and it doesn't seem like something worth giving in to blackmail for.

I think they are most concerned about Leo finding out and being traumatized. Because I agree, who cares if he's the biological father? He raised the kid.

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

I'm curious as to why the actors who play Mike Ritter (who? he is apparently Kirkman's secret service agent) and Leo are listed in the main cast under the "starring" designation, yet are barely on the show.  And yet Malik Yoba (who I would consider a minor "name" name in the TV world) and the actor who plays Congressman MacLeish have been on almost every episode and are still listed under "guest starring".  Not sure if this means anything, whether something sudden is going to happen to them or not and they will be gone from the show.  Atwood has been featured just as much as Maggie Q's Hannah.

Maybe they thought the family stuff was going to be a bigger focus and so the signed the kids on as regulars then got feedback that people didn't like them? And the secret service agent could have been tied to those storylines.

[Netfoot]

32 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

Although the woman did say that if anything happens to her, his family would die

I would have shot her in the leg, twice, before she got to finish that sentence.

[plurie]

20 hours ago, secnarf said:

I dislike the whole Leo storyline, but if you're going to introduce a storyline, it needs a resolution. Okay so Kal Penn's character got the reporter to hold the story. But apparently Alex's ex has been shooting off his mouth to anyone who will listen, and what's to stop the story from getting out some other way, through some other reporter? I totally agree that Leo looks much more like Alex's ex than he does Kirkman.

Yeah, the Press Secretary probably bought a week or so, but sleazy ex will shoot his mouth off to someone else pretty damn quick. FLOTUS should have told Leo the truth right after she got back from her prison visit (which no one seems to have noticed?).

[piequinn35]

This a tv show, if they don't tell Leo right away, he will find out about his bio dad from someone else, 

he will visit the prison, family problems, etc., hence more screen time for him 

add one problem to the many problems of Kirk

[MaryHedwig]

Quote

I think they are most concerned about Leo finding out and being traumatized. Because I agree, who cares if he's the biological father? He raised the kid.

Leo has more to be traumatized about than his paternity. His sulky, drug-dealing adolescence abruptly ended one month ago. Every aspect of his life is different now, he is probably both neglected (by his parents) and micro-managed (by the secret service.) He is probably the sole emotional support of his little sister.

Not to mention that most of his friends probably lost their parents a month ago.

And that for me is the tragic flaw of this show. No one is processing the trauma and grief that would be felt by the country if most of Washington's dignitaries we wiped out. At least, they should be walking beneath black cloths hanging out of the capitol offices, comforting shrieking widows demanding compensation, stepping around rose petals and velas (velas are the Mexican candles, tall with colored glass, that you often find at outdoor memorial displays, some have a picture of Jesus or Mary on them, others are just plain. Buy a dozen for $10.00 at my local bodega.)

[MaryPatShelby]

I think this show might have gone one bridge too far for me with the kidnapping of Atwood's son.  It requires quite a suspension of disbelief that that a kidnapping/hostage plan of this magnitude (including what exact actions they're going to require Atwood to take) could happen within weeks of all the death and destruction.

[Sake614]

11 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

At least, they should be walking beneath black cloths hanging out of the capitol offices, comforting shrieking widows demanding compensation, stepping around rose petals and velas

Yeah no. Sorry but that's not what I want to watch every week.

[Princess Lucky]

1 hour ago, MaryPatShelby said:

I think this show might have gone one bridge too far for me with the kidnapping of Atwood's son.  It requires quite a suspension of disbelief that that a kidnapping/hostage plan of this magnitude (including what exact actions they're going to require Atwood to take) could happen within weeks of all the death and destruction.

That's actually what got me committed 100%. I was under the impression the show was supposed to be more "serious" and at least slightly realistic (not really, but a little, heh) but the kidnapping made me realize how batshit and over the top the show truly wants to be. And I'm fine with that.

12 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

And that for me is the tragic flaw of this show. No one is processing the trauma and grief that would be felt by the country if most of Washington's dignitaries we wiped out. At least, they should be walking beneath black cloths hanging out of the capitol offices, comforting shrieking widows demanding compensation, stepping around rose petals and velas (velas are the Mexican candles, tall with colored glass, that you often find at outdoor memorial displays, some have a picture of Jesus or Mary on them, others are just plain. Buy a dozen for $10.00 at my local bodega.)

 

1 hour ago, Sake614 said:

Yeah no. Sorry but that's not what I want to watch every week.

I agree with both points of view. It wouldn't be fun (or even interesting) to watch random people mourning, but it is a failure in terms of world-building to completely ignore the emotional fallout of such an important, gruesome and massive incident. I think a middle ground solution would be best. Wasn't Aaron... I don't know what he was, the dead POTUS's chief of staff? Anyway, wasn't he really close to the dead pres? Isn't he the only one out of the main cast who lost someone super-close to him? Maybe we could see his grief. I'm letting Kirkman himself of the hook, because he's freaking out with POTUS stuff every other minute, but Virginia Madsen also lost, like, everyone she's ever worked with. She and Aaron could give us a sense of everyone's loss. But I guess they're too busy with their day-to-day machinations.

[marinw]

On 11/17/2016 at 7:02 PM, secnarf said:

 

Did Hookstraten get kidnapped also? She seems to have vanished.

 

One of my thoughts exactly. A few episodes ago she was into everything.

[marinw]

Hannah Wells seems much more competent and resourceful than Atwood. Hope she can help here boss out, perhaps by going straight to Kirkman if she can get past his handlers.

A shallow thought about the glasses that seem to be gone: Kiefer does have have beautiful, expressive eyes.

Edited November 19, 2016 by marinw
Accuracy

[maraleia]

Why am I even watching this show? The plot holes and the fact that they dismissing the actual way this works (what our Constitution says) when our government needs to be reconstituted makes me stabby. I might need to take a break from all WH related shows other than Veep for the forseeable future.