S02.E05: Compromised

[scarynikki12]

Quote

When the Legends trace a timequake to President Reagan’s White House, they are shocked to discover their old enemy Damien Darhk is now a Senior Adviser to Reagan.

 

[Primal Slayer]

This was a VERY good episode! Probably my fave out of all 3 shows. Though I dont know how smart it was for Sara to leave Darhk alive but tell him his future. If he isn't defeated and they let him go on to do his future killing sprees, it would have to change what happened during S4 to a certain degree.

I am glad that they didn't go way back in the past, that is boring to me at this moment. 

Vixen was great, I am glad that they gave her a decent storyline this episode. I am glad that they brought her on.

Nick Zano..I don't hate him but Nate is just not that interesting of a character, his comedy during the episode was kind of cringe worthy to me, it just isn't as natural as it should be.

Kind of funny that Sara helped set the Legion of Doom in motion.

Boo to going back to the west next week. 

But again, great episode.

[Jediknight]

Sara, Sara, Sara, you don't tell the villain their future.  That's time traveling 101, you should know this.  You may have unleashed something worse than Barry did.

Still love the Ray and Mick team, and Mick still has the sweet tooth.  Nice running gag with that.

[Lantern7]

That was fun. I needed that. Sara kicked ass, we had Martin-on-Martin fun, and we got freakin' Frank Black as Obsidian. Never mind how a shadow man can get shot . . . at least he lived. And they threw in a husband for Todd. Nice touch.

I don't think there's a glaring weak link like with Kendra last season. I know Nate's a goober, but he's fun to watch. One question: if Commander Steel and Vixen/Amaya were an item . . . where did Nate's dad come from? Really hoping we don't get Nate/Amaya as a couple, because that would be weird.

Ray as "Colonel Cold." I'm hoping it lasts until he can do back to being an Atom again, because watching Mick deal with "Haircut" is always funny.

ETA: Shit, you're right. I got my white guy heroes mixed up. Sorry.

[Primal Slayer]

I thought Amaya/Hourman were an item?

[Sakura12]

Vixen had a thing with Rex, Hourman the one that died. 

Sara, telling someone their future is just as bad as killing them. We'll have to wait see what kind of damage this causes. It'll have to be worse then just Darhk killing people since he did all that before. 

Are they really going to do the same storyline with Sara that they did with Rip. Make her be the real cause of her sisters death. 

I do still enjoy the different team ups. Nate is still a goober, but at least he has a personality. Which is what the Hawks were missing. 

And Darhk and Thawne are much better villains then Savage. 

[Primal Slayer]

Technically it should do some major damage, I don't see Darhk letting Ruve be as active as she was in the back half of S4 knowing that she dies. Not to mention Darhk starting to time travel should undo plenty of the deaths he caused from the 80s onwards but I dont think they will deal with that.

[ketose]

Can they rename the show to "Time Janitors"? I think it's more accurate.

[benteen]

This episode was great.  I loved the 80s setting here and the various pieces at play.  No surprise but Victor Garber was outstanding, particularly when telling Sara that she couldn't let her what had happened to her affect their mission.  Sara was an idiot with all things Darhk tonight, especially telling him the details of how he is defeated.  But I still love her.

Ray and Rory are a lot of fun together and Rory is a blast.  Hey, Vixen has TWO spirit animals now!  Please don't let her character be defined by another relationship though.

[Hook75]

Is Rip ever coming back? I miss him.

Is Cold ever coming back? I miss him more.

[MadyGirl1987]

Being born in 87 I was excited to see the year portrayed in the show!

I enjoyed the dynamic between Ray and Mick. They are tied with Jax and Stein for my favorite paring of Legends. Both pairings play off each other really well.

Sara... I get wanting to avenge your sister, but you are the captain of a time traveling team dedicated to protecting the universe from timeline aberrations. You know better and have seen how even little things affect the future. God only knows the trouble  that could be caused by killing Darhk. We would get "Legendspoint."

Loved Martin putting younger Martin straight about not taking Clarissa for granted.

[Last Time Lord]

This was a great episode!

I kinda loved Sara going all Shakespearean Soothsayer on Darhk. It was detailed enough to get him worried, but vague enough that he doesn't know the specifics. And I especially loved it because one of my criticisms of Darhk on Arrow was how he was pretty much always one step ahead of the heroes. I like seeing him with a little concern in his eyes.

As for Darhk getting his very own timeship, well, it's not exactly bigger on the inside, but a time traveling villain should be a lot of fun.

Like I said last week, this show is now a more action-y Doctor Who. And I absolutely love it for that.

[CabotCove]

Awesome episode

Glad Raygun is over, cant wait to see what next for him.

And to see how history or the future will change due to Sara telling Damian his future. Oh shit.

Edited November 11, 2016 by HeroLeague

[HunterHunted]

16 hours ago, Hook75 said:

Is Rip ever coming back? I miss him.

Is Cold ever coming back? I miss him more.

I talk endlessly about shipping Rip with Jonah.I'm hoping that next week when they go to the old west and run into Jonah that they'll catch up with Rip as he "shares coats" with Jonah.

The entire Flarrowverse really needs Cold.

I really liked this episode. The funny thing is that every interaction young Martin has with the Legends piques his curiosity, his intellect, his arrogance, and causes him to neglect Clarissa. Such a catch 22. Don't get involved and Martin dies. Get involved and Martin becomes less like the Martin we know and love. I actually hope this a bit that they carry out for the rest of the show. And it is a little bit consistent for Martin because he does think highly of himself, he tends to underestimate his weaknesses. I can see young Martin listening to older Martin for a while and then falling back to his old habits and fixated on what he saw on the Waverider.

I'm curious to see if Darhk in trying to avoid what Sara told him, basically causes all of season 4 of Arrow to play exactly like it did.

Edited November 11, 2016 by HunterHunted

[tarotx]

I 100% believe that Sara is going to cause the Dark we know in Arrow season 4. Darhk going after Lance's daughter and the why Starling city is much more believable now imo. Sara had to go after Darhk the best way she could to save her own soul. And it'll backfire on her. It will be like Rip because that's the way Time seems to work on Legends. I think we are going to have a Captain curse on the legends. Causing the worse things that happen to you. Now I'm wondering  

what version of Malcolm Merlin we are getting. I hope the show will allow Sara to kill him at least. Arrow doesn't need him back.

[TDT]

Guess Mick not a big Cutting Crew fan lol..

I wonder if Ray will get his suit back in time for that big"Heroes Vs'Aliens" crossover event(which im crossing fingers that each episode of every show involved will open with Barry getting the living daylights slapped out of him for causing Flashpoint,every character can take turns in the cold opens haha)

Edited November 11, 2016 by TDT

[thuganomics85]

As enjoyable as the past few episodes, I'm glad we revisited the what Eobard and Dahrk are up to.  No surprise, those two continue to be way, way better then Vandal Savage.  And Neal McDonough seemed to be tailor made for the "80s drug kingpin" look at the beginning.

Yikes, not a good episode for Sara!  She is totally letting her anger over Laurel screw up her judgement, and, yes, her telling Damien what is going to go down in the future is probably going to cause major ripples, and I wouldn't end up being surprised if that is the reason that Damien chose to kill Laurel over Oliver.  Oh, Sara!  There seems to be something about the captain's chair that makes the one in charge suddenly loose their good judgement and leadership.

On the other hand, Martin Stein was MVP of the episode.  The return of his younger self and how much Martin hated that guy was hilarious, and him standing up to Sara was a good moment.  Interesting that he wasn't cut out to be a captain, but he does seem to fit in as an advisor of some kind, and Sara actually did back off on the killing part after they finally had it out.  Victor Garber shined as always.

Ray and Mick are cracking me up and continue to be strangely sweet at times.  But they had to take apart the Cold gun?  Oh, if/when Snart gets back, he is really not going to be a happy camper.

Lance Henriksen for the win!  Great seeing him as an older Todd Rice, and I like the scenes between him and Amaya.  Amaya/Vixen continues to be a vast improvement over Hawkgirl.

Nick Zano is entertaining, but I sometimes wonder how no one has duck-taped his mouth yet.  He might actually be more of a chatterbox than Ray, and that is easier said then done.

So, Eobard gave Damien a time traveling ship and they are off doing God knows what.  My hope is

Spoiler

that since Snart is suppose to return eventually in some form, that they go and prevent his death because they need him for whatever reason.

[Starfish35]

This season continues to be a huge improvement over last season.  Even Nate is finally starting to grow on me.  A little. :)  I knew Amaya was going to be in love with Rex though.   And the Mick/Ray partnership continues to be gold. 

Sara, you messed up there, telling Darhk his future.  But I'm interested to see how that plays out.  And Darhk and Thawne are far more interesting villains than Savage was.  

[yellowfred]

I also really enjoyed this episode.  I like that they're doing something I think they should have done last season by letting Reverse Flash and Damian Dahrk pop up every few episodes, so that coming up against them has actual meaning.  Speaking of Damian Darhk, I have no idea where the 'h' in his name goes, and every way I try it looks wrong.

I was a little disappointed in Sara for letting some secret service guy sneak up on her like that (and, I guess, for nearly getting everyone arrested due to her Darkh-induced tunnel vision).  She made up for it, though, with the whole "I'm monologuing so that you don't notice that I'm also picking your pocket" bit.  As far as her causing Dhark to do all that stuff he did, I think it's been made fairly clear that the arc thing has been his plan for a while and it's not like she told him her sister's name and then gave him a picture to hold onto for a couple decades, just in case (sorry, Rip).

The fact that they acknowledged that Obsidian is gay made me happier than I realized it would.  The fact that Amaya seemed completely unsurprised by it and he was living in a happily committed relationship in 1987 made me even happier.  I also liked that they mentioned the lavender scare without making too big of a deal out of it. 

Also, for my (somewhat) brief moment of taking the rules of time travel way too seriously:  so, the rule seems to be that any time period that you visit that's chronologically after the time period you're "from" (meaning, the time you most recently left, I guess), it's a version of the timeline wherein you never returned (hence, Obsidian saying that Vixen never came back to the JSA).  So, if that's the case, is every post-1942 time they visit just a hypothetical future, in the same way that Star City 2046 was?  Then again, they've since traveled further into the future than that, and there was no mention of it only being a possible future, so maybe there's a statute of limitations on it.  Like, maybe if you travel to the future that's near enough to still reasonably be in your lifetime, it's sort of screwy, but once you get a hundred plus years out, time has corrected itself for your absence?  

[Primal Slayer]

Im thinking now that maybe Sara told Darhk on purpose. She knows she can't kill him so she is going to try to slighty alter the future by telling him his future. S4 Darhk can't be causee by Sara, heb would be a lot more cautious imo.

[cambridgeguy]

Apparently White House security really sucked in the 80s if people could just wander off from their tour group and explore on their own.

Now that they know their opponent is a speedster the next trip should be to present day Central City.  Speaking of which, according to Clarissa's driver's license it's in Missouri. 

[Sakura12]

I think unlike the Flash, the Legends don't change the future, it happens because of them. Rip caused his wife and son's murder by telling Savage about them. Sara told Ra's to send to Nyssa to the Lian Yu. Now Sara is going to cause her sister's death. I did wonder why Darhk choose Quentin Lance, now the reason is because of Sara. Darkh was in Sara's city, went after Sara's father and killed Sara's sister. He wanted Sara to suffer. This probably wasn't planned out in advance but they could definitely go with it now. 

[darkestboy]

Another one I really liked. 

Sara was a bit reckless with Darhk this week but I did like her scenes with him and likewise, Damien's scenes with Reverse Flash were pretty good as well. A step from Savage from last season as well.

Loved older Obsidian and the casual way the show mentioned his boyfriend. Nate and Amaya worked well with him too. Wasn't surprised that Amaya and Rex were involved with each other though.

Stein's scenes with Sara were one thing but I also enjoyed the ones he had with Jax, his younger self and younger Clarissa this week.

Ray isn't the new Cold and this episode emphasised that nicely as Mick made the realisation too. They do continue to work brilliantly though as a team, 8/10

[Chris24601]

12 hours ago, Last Time Lord said:

I kinda loved Sara going all Shakespearean Soothsayer on Darhk. It was detailed enough to get him worried, but vague enough that he doesn't know the specifics. And I especially loved it because one of my criticisms of Darhk on Arrow was how he was pretty much always one step ahead of the heroes. I like seeing him with a little concern in his eyes.

I'm somewhat wondering if Darhk always being one step ahead of the heroes will be retconned as being because he had a certain degree of foreknowledge of what would happen from Sara's soothsaying. She didn't really tell him enough to avoid specific things (she didn't mention any of the heroes involved in his downfall), but it WAS enough to get him to be extra cautious and ruthless when his plan was nearing its completion. Similarly, knowing that his wife would be killed at some point could be retconned into explaining why he did cave when she got threatened... he was remembering Sara's foretelling his future.

Throw in Darhk specifically targeting Quentyn and Laurel in order to inflict pain on Sara being the reason she targets him and tortures him with knowledge of the future and you've got yourself a stable time loop with no clear origin point... Sara would only tell Darhk his future because of what he did to Laurel, but Darhk only specifically targeted Laurel because of what Sara told Darhk.

Come to think of it, that's the same basic structure as Rip vs. Savage as well. Rip goes after Savage because Savage murdered his wife and son, but Savage only knew to target his wife and son because of information Rip provided him in the past after Savage had done the deed.

[Primal Slayer]

I hope they don't go that route, even though it makes a good story in the end, I've just never been a fan of that kind of confusing time traveling. Things have had to change to a degree since Steins memories were different.

[FortKnox]

As someone who loves Miami Vice and think it's the greatest cop show ever, I just loved the opening scene. I swear the music sounded like Jan Hammer's Crockett's Theme.

[Proteus]

I loved the opening scene as well.

I just don't understand why young Steins memory isn't erased.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

As someone who loves Miami Vice and think it's the greatest cop show ever, I just loved the opening scene. I swear the music sounded like Jan Hammer's Crockett's Theme.

Oh, me too. I totally thought it was gonna play right there. And the pink jacket. Ha.

So Sara faltered a bit here, I think that`s okay. She has been an exceptional Captain the last two episodes, she is allowed some leeway. Rip screwed up far more during Season 1. Also, while I get it isn`t exactly smart to tell the villain their fate, I did enjoy seeing Dahrk`s blasé facade crackle for a moment. Usually nothing fazes him but she did. And she swiped the item off him.

Amaya and Hourman were an item, not unexpected. When Obsidian made a remark about being benched after the war for certain "suspicions", I called him being gay also. A bit on the nose how Obsidian told her to be open to love again and in walks Nate after which they proceed to have a nice bonding moment.  

And Amaya`s belief that surely gender equality would be achieved by the 80s. Um, she does know how long it took historically to get to the point where things were in the 1940s, what made her think things could have worked out perfectly already a mere 40 years later? Seemed a bit naive. I did like her interactions with Nate here. He wasn`t over the top goofy all throughout the episode which I appreciated. 

The dynamics between Mick and Ray were very nice again. Mick was the character I was most doubtful about pre-show but they really worked him into the team nicely. He even stood up for Sara earlier. Aww.

They are leaving young Stein with all that knowledge? And while Martin`s sentiments were nice, he himself did choose this adventure with the Legends over being with Clarissa. So he is basically incapable of making the decisions he wants his younger self to make.   

[Chicago Redshirt]

Wouldn't it have made more sense for Ray to just freeze the bomb or the triggering mechanism with the cold gun rather than strip it down to do whatever electrical that he did?

[Lady Calypso]

So judging by Obsidian's comments about how Amaya disappeared after 1942, it's safe to say that she doesn't make it back to that particular timeline. I don't think she dies, but maybe she just can't go back, or she chooses not to. I wonder what'll happen to her. We know that she has to at least live long enough to have a child and pass down the amulet.

It is nice that she got to find out a little bit about what happened to the Justice League after she left and Rex was killed. But that not-so-subtle hint toward Nate/Amaya? No thanks, show. I liked Nate this episode once he stopped with the total idiocy, and I really like Amaya, but please let these two be friends. 

There's always time inconsistencies in this show, but this episode, I couldn't help but note a few of them:

1. So, young Martin gets stabbed by Damien because of his curiosity and him catching on to Damien's misdoings with the KGB. And...our Martin immediately gets the aftereffects? I would have thought that it would take time for the effects to catch up to Martin, seeing as every other major event has taken its time to other characters. 

2. So, Sara warns Damien about his future. Presumably, this will lead to the events of season 4, in some sort of stable time loop. I assume that Sara's done trying to kill Damien as well. But how does this even work? Sara's time travelling isn't due to Laurel, but it's the whole reason why Sara seeks out Damien and it would be the only reason why she would even tell Damien about his future. 

3. Why can't Gideon find a way to erase young Martin's memories? Since we know that their first meeting has affected young Martin so much that he's changing our Martin's timeline (and I assume that's because they're in their time paradox...time something-or-other to explain why it's not affecting him yet), wouldn't they want to make sure that young Martin actually stops looking into the Waverider and the future? Why is our Martin just assuming that he'll stop? If he knows himself better than anyone, he should know that one simple chat won't cut it. I'll bet we'll see young Martin again because they'll have to seek him out. I swear if Martin goes back to 2016/2017 only to find him and Clarissa divorced and her with a new family, I am going to be unhappy. 

Ray/Mick are always a hilarious pair together. Ray really works better with Mick, but he also has to stop his moping over his damn suit. I'm really sick of his woe-is-me lines. Mick had a powerful moment when he reflected on the loss of Snart. It was a sweet and somber moment. 

So, Sara becomes the reckless one this episode. It's fine, because I expect each team member to make a mistake and this was Sara's. Because of the death of her sister, she's been making some emotional mistakes. It gives her layers and it provides her with some growth when she'll hopefully accept the loss of Laurel soon and be able to move on in a healthy way. I guess without Rip, Martin will be the mentor that she can go to for life advice.

Speaking of Rip, I really miss him. I didn't realize how much until this episode, when I saw the team walking into the state dinner and thought "Rip should have been here". I really hope he's found soon. I wonder what time period he'll be in. He'd be so proud of Sara either way. 

A very strong episode, overall. 

[KirkB]

26 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

1. So, young Martin gets stabbed by Damien because of his curiosity and him catching on to Damien's misdoings with the KGB. And...our Martin immediately gets the aftereffects? I would have thought that it would take time for the effects to catch up to Martin, seeing as every other major event has taken its time to other characters.

Actually, last season, when the Pilgrim was trying to kill Ray in the past at Palmer Tech the Ray on the Waverider was receiving the same injuries so there is definitely precedence for what happened to Stein.

26 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

2. So, Sara warns Damien about his future. Presumably, this will lead to the events of season 4, in some sort of stable time loop. I assume that Sara's done trying to kill Damien as well. But how does this even work? Sara's time travelling isn't due to Laurel, but it's the whole reason why Sara seeks out Damien and it would be the only reason why she would even tell Damien about his future. 

I think Sara's motivation was basically hoping to get Dark to cancel, or at least alter, his future plans so hopefully Laurel and the other Star City residents Dark killed would not die. She just inadvertently helped caused them by convincing Dark to go forward even faster to save his wife, and probably brought her father and sister to Dark's attention in the first place.

26 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

3. Why can't Gideon find a way to erase young Martin's memories? Since we know that their first meeting has affected young Martin so much that he's changing our Martin's timeline (and I assume that's because they're in their time paradox...time something-or-other to explain why it's not affecting him yet), wouldn't they want to make sure that young Martin actually stops looking into the Waverider and the future? Why is our Martin just assuming that he'll stop? If he knows himself better than anyone, he should know that one simple chat won't cut it. I'll bet we'll see young Martin again because they'll have to seek him out. I swear if Martin goes back to 2016/2017 only to find him and Clarissa divorced and her with a new family, I am going to be unhappy. 

They really don't even need Gideon. The episode where they encountered their younger selves they explicitly showed they had memory wiping drugs they used on Quentin, Clarissa and Ray's fiance. Why Stein doesn't use them on his younger self I have no idea.

Seeing Ray with the cold gun reminds me of just how much I miss Snart.

Speaking of the cold gun, how did Ray and Rory get into the White House with their weapons in the first place? And after the initial attack, did no one in the secret service have pictures or sketches of Ray, Rory, Sara or Jax? Jax, in particular, was flying and on fire the last time, that's the kind of thing I would expect people to remember.

Edited November 11, 2016 by KirkB

[Argenta]

22 hours ago, ketose said:

Can they rename the show to "Time Janitors"? I think it's more accurate.

"DC's Janitors of Time", maybe?   :D

I really enjoyed this episode. I loved the 80's setting, clothes and music (it was the decade of my childhood, after all) and Ray stealing Reagan's patriotically-coloured jellybeans was a joy to behold. 

The drugs bust at the start was great, too. Pure nostalgia in every way. I wish we could have a whole mini-series of Damien and Eobard just doing Miami Vice-style anti-heroics together. 

[jhlipton]

21 hours ago, Last Time Lord said:

[A] time traveling villain should be a lot of fun.

Been there, done that, no thanks.

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Wouldn't it have made more sense for Ray to just freeze the bomb or the triggering mechanism with the cold gun rather than strip it down to do whatever electrical that he did?

That's what I thought he would do, too

[squidprincess]

I really enjoyed this episode.  Obsidian was my favorite part though and I wish there'd been a way to keep him around.  I love cranky old superheroes.

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

Been there, done that, no thanks.That's what I thought he would do, too

I think the cold gun might not have been precise enough for that kind of work.  (Kind of like how Snart didn't/couldn't use it to hold down the mechanism in Destiny.)

Edited November 12, 2016 by squidprincess

[blackwing]

Enjoyed this episode a lot.  Really liked seeing Obsidian again.  Wish he would have joined the team.  His powers are awesome.  I'm confused though, when the young version showed up in one of the first two episodes this season, I thought I remember someone made a comment in the episode thread about how it was nice to see that there were two black male superheroes on the 1940s JSA (Obsidian and Dr. Mid-Nite).  Clearly not black.

I continue to hate Victor Garber in this role.  Don't like anything about the character.  He's just so preeny and prattling all the time.  When he frantically said "we must save Clarissa" over the walkie talkie, I thought it was interesting considering he lectured Sarah about trying to save her loved one.  Now I get that in their timeline, Laurel is dead, and Clarissa is alive.  So he would justify his comment by saying he was trying to preserve history.  But still. He bugs me so it bugged me.

Does Dahrk not have telekinesis powers in this version?   

[kismet]

8 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

3. Why can't Gideon find a way to erase young Martin's memories? Since we know that their first meeting has affected young Martin so much that he's changing our Martin's timeline (and I assume that's because they're in their time paradox...time something-or-other to explain why it's not affecting him yet), wouldn't they want to make sure that young Martin actually stops looking into the Waverider and the future? Why is our Martin just assuming that he'll stop? If he knows himself better than anyone, he should know that one simple chat won't cut it. I'll bet we'll see young Martin again because they'll have to seek him out. I swear if Martin goes back to 2016/2017 only to find him and Clarissa divorced and her with a new family, I am going to be unhappy.

I do wonder if we are building to something like this... or perhaps the reason Martin is able to go on the mission in the first place is because he lost Clarissa as his wife. Because a man so in love, I can't imagine would be so willingly to leave his wife in s2 when it appears that it's not going to be the quick/easy commitment of s1. Why is he not living with present day Clarissa instead of being on this mission was something that was coming up frequently for me this episode. I think having past Martin mess up the timeline is how they will explain it (should they ever go back to the present day).

[kismet]

For me each episode of LoT is getting better each week. Sure they all have some flaws, but each episode for me is building momentum for the season. I hope the crossover does not ruin it. I can actually appreciate the rotating character focuses, that still allow character development every week. It never feels like their character journeys are stalled or jammed on rinse/repeat. It's refreshing.

Sara is really becoming a good captain. I'm glad she monologued to steal the info, very crafty. I'm upset that she chose DD so much of the future, but perhaps it can undo the disaster that was Arrow s4b. If FP can't reverse the Arrowwriters inability to write an interesting story. Perhaps SL's verbal vengenance can fix it?

Ray & Rory are really playing well off each other. I'm glad they are moving away from Ray just being Cold 2.0. First, Ray can not replace the snark of Snart. Second, we desperately need to get the real Capt. Cold back. Also I never like when characters are just slid into a role as a direct replacement. It reduces the chemistries.

Nate - Confession time, I'm sorry but I do like his character. I do find some things annoying. But in general I like how NZ is playing him. And he is growing on me. He doesn't have much depth. However, that doesn't mean he isn't enjoyable. I actually like having a relatively easy breezy character.

Amaya - I like her so much better than Hawkgirl. However, did anybody else get a sense of dread when Obsidian told her to pursue love if it presented an opportunity in the future. I cringed because I hope that the writers have more in store for her than just a LI. That was how they failed Hawkgirl, by only focusing on her lovelife. Women can be and are more than the sum of their LIs. Her comments about woman equality, hurt a lot more this week than the writers probably intended to. It was really bad timing for that line. Since its 2016, and we're still not there yet in so many ways.

Damien Darhk - Love him! Also, for some reason NM really showed his roots this episode. His vocal & physical delivery was very Bostonian to me. Channeling his inner White Guy Gangster turned Politician. Look fwd to whatever they do to him. Thanks Reverse Flash, always nice to see you too :)

Jax - This kid is growing on me too. I like that they did not drop his passion from last week, but properly discussed it. I loved SL's response. It was sincere and yet kept them on task. He didn't have a lot this episode, but he as solid this episode.

Plot - Fun & interesting. Good ode to the 80s, with just enough cliches. Decent action scenes.

Martin. For me Martin was the MVP of the episode. I know that he made a horrible Capt. But his presence is definitely needed as a mentor to the bunch. Perhaps its VG, on top of good writing. But so far I have seen Martin mentor just about everyone on the cast and produce better characters as a result. It's nice to see those type of relationships, especially since Martin is a flawed guy himself. It's not just pretentious preaching. Although, I do give VG a lot of credit for the subtlety in delivery that helps ease the preaching. Also who got some Alias longings watching VG be excited about covert missions and KGB?

Overall, really great episode. I do miss Rip & Cold, but I'm glad they are lingering there as future possibilities. I'm not happy about Gideon's diminished role this season. I do wish there was a better way to integrate her. She felt very for plot this episode. I liked when they gave her more of personality and role in the mission last season.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

Does Dahrk not have telekinesis powers in this version? 

No, not until he gets his idol and is in a place where the ley lines...yeah, let's just go with, no, not yet.

 

 

On 11/10/2016 at 9:52 PM, MadyGirl1987 said:

 

Loved Martin putting younger Martin straight about not taking Clarissa for granted.

Which remains ironically painful since that is what he currently is doing.  

On 11/10/2016 at 9:56 PM, Last Time Lord said:

This was a great episode!

I kinda loved Sara going all Shakespearean Soothsayer on Darhk. It was detailed enough to get him worried, but vague enough that he doesn't know the specifics. And I especially loved it because one of my criticisms of Darhk on Arrow was how he was pretty much always one step ahead of the heroes. I like seeing him with a little concern in his eyes.

As for Darhk getting his very own timeship, well, it's not exactly bigger on the inside, but a time traveling villain should be a lot of fun.

 

Telling Dahrk his future may not have been the smartest thing, but it was very satisfying to see the look of fear in his eyes.  Then to find out it wasn't only a bit of mind games, but a distraction to steal the item.  Damian Dahrk never really lost until the very end during his stint on Arrow so it was great seeing Sara completely take away his prize and get into his head.  

I rather enjoy the thought that in trying to avenge Laurel, Sara now contributed to it, but I won't put the blame of her death on Sara since DD was already planning on killing Laurel to teach Quentin a lesson and Laurel knew about it and was ok with the risks when her dad publicly turned on him. It does make the episode where DD found out about Sara being brought back to life (and his suggestion to kill her during her soulless monster phase) a lot more interesting though.   

15 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

 

And Amaya`s belief that surely gender equality would be achieved by the 80s. Um, she does know how long it took historically to get to the point where things were in the 1940s, what made her think things could have worked out perfectly already a mere 40 years later? Seemed a bit naive. I did like her interactions with Nate here. He wasn`t over the top goofy all throughout the episode which I appreciated. 

  

I think her expectations were a lot more in keeping with that timeline than what we'd expect.  During the war years with the male labor force off fighting, it seems women were allowed a lot more chances to prove their equality.  I imagine a lot of women that came of age during that time period were shocked that they were expected to go back to the old gender roles like nothing had happened.

Plus, it was in 1972 that the Equal Rights Amendment was passed.  That was only thirty years later.  The fact that only 33 states were willing to ratify it (they needed 38) and the whole thing died in 1982 even after an extension should be the more shocking fact than Amaya thinking 40 years would be enough time to work it out.  (She'd be even more horrified that 30 years later and equal rights for women still wasn't a constitutional right.)   

[TwistedandBored]

I  enjoy watching this episode. I mean I miss Snart/WM but this show has been great ever since they dropped Savage.

I cringed when Sara was telling Darhk his future. He is definitely going to look her up and get revenge. 

Ray trying to channel Snart and Mick getting annoyed with him had me dying.

Loved Amaya/Vixen getting paired up with a new member each week. This way we get something fresh and still learn something new about her. 

[Argenta]

I do like Maisie R-S. I first saw and was impressed by her in The Originals, so it's nice to see her on my screen again. Same goes for Lance Henriksen. 

I'm not familiar with Damien since I've only seen him in the one Arrow/Flash crossover episode, but he strikes me as a very effective villain. 

I also notice that Eobard seemed to be very relaxed and laid back this episode. He was positively pleased to see Damien again (or so he professed) and was surprisingly tolerant and smile-y in the face of Damien's snide remarks and initial brush-offs. 

He's saved Damien's ass three separate times now. When Damien lost the artefact thing they were after to Sara, I expected Eobard to be furious and give him the hand-through-the-chest treatment. Instead all he does is make a single mildly exasperated remark about it being 'beyond their reach' before rewarding Damien with a timeship and whisking him away. 

The Florida sunshine must have been doing his mood some good. 

[BkWurm1]

22 minutes ago, Argenta said:

before rewarding Damien with a timeship and whisking him away. 

They made something similar on The Flash for Eobard to go home in but I always thought that it was just a protective bubble to travel in while the Speedster manipulated the timeline.  Anyone know more about it?

[Maverick]

 The one from The Flash was a way for Eobard to get home since he didn't have his powers.  He also said it was designed by Rip.

[squidprincess]

Yep, that was a Time Sphere, which is Rip Hunter's invention and main means of transportation in the comics.  Per Eobard, in the Flash season finale, he'd designed/invented it in the television universe as well.  One imagines the Waverider is a much more comfortable means of travel.

The Time Sphere doesn't generally require a speedster in order to work.  It wouldn't be very practical for Rip if it did.  But it's possible that Eobard is just using his own speed as some kind of jury-rigged workaround.

I'm guessing this is a fairly big clue as to Rip's current location.  Eobard had needed Cisco's help to build the one from the Flash, and I think that got destroyed in the paradox.   So how did he get ahold of this one?

Edited November 13, 2016 by squidprincess

[Delphi]

On 11/12/2016 at 0:59 AM, blackwing said:

Enjoyed this episode a lot.  Really liked seeing Obsidian again.  Wish he would have joined the team.  His powers are awesome.  I'm confused though, when the young version showed up in one of the first two episodes this season, I thought I remember someone made a comment in the episode thread about how it was nice to see that there were two black male superheroes on the 1940s JSA (Obsidian and Dr. Mid-Nite).  Clearly not black.

That was me,  but I just said black superheroes.   I was counting Mid Nite and Vixen.   I didn't mention gender . 

On 11/12/2016 at 7:21 AM, BkWurm1 said:

 

Which remains ironically painful since that is what he currently is doing.  

I don't consider it the same thing,  because in 2016 they've had decades with each other and she gave him permission to go hero through time.   He was willing to stay and be with her but she told him no.   that's different than constantly ignoring your wife for work

[Bill1978]

Just caught up with this episode and my favourite moment in the entire episode was Sara throwing her shoe at Darhk. This show regularly makes me smile and quietly laugh but the shoe throwing caused a loud laugh to come out of me. I don't know why I found it so hilarious but I did.

[Mellowyellow]

Just caught up on this. 

Mick and Ray are the cutest!

Ray packed apple slices on a stake out! Squeeeeeeee 

[zannej]

I just found this section of ptv. I'm really enjoying this season more than last. I think the villains are more interesting and believable than Vandal Savage.

I am wondering why we haven't seen Damien using any of his magic powers yet. I wonder if he didn't have them at that point or if they just weren't as strong. I also wonder why Eobard picked him from that particular time period. My guess is that he knew it was at a point where Damien would have enough knowledge and power to be useful, but not enough power to be a threat to him. He is still at a stage where Eobard can offer him something he might find interesting.

I wasn't surprised that Eobard took things in stride when his offer was rejected. He's proven to be a VERY patient man. I loved how Damian Darhk was wearing a very light colored suit. Also I really like that Sandro leather jacket Eobard was wearing. I also find it entertaining that he still calls him "Mr. Darhk" rather than addressing him by his first name.

So far, Nate is my least favorite character on the show but he's grown on me. I didn't like him at first. I really like Amaya.

I couldn't help but think that the jelly beans were the wrong color when they were in the White House. I remember seeing the jar of jelly beans on Reagan's desk when I was young (my father was in federal law enforcement and knew some guys in the Secret Service and he was allowed to bring me with him when he visited the White House). It seemed so huge when I was that age-- but l went back on a school field trip in the late 80s and it seemed much smaller. They had guards standing around in every room and there were crowd control thingamabobs (those metal posts with the long rope-like thingies that they use to establish the boundaries for lines), so I doubt a single person much less a whole group of people would have been able to slip by unless they had special passes. But then, they travel through time and there are people with superpowers...

I do like the theories that what Sara said to Damien will actually be the cause of his behavior on Arrow.

I'm also wondering how things will work out for Amaya because at some point she will need to return to a point in the past to have a family so the family line can continue.

[Argenta]

On 1/28/2017 at 2:09 PM, zannej said:

I am wondering why we haven't seen Damien using any of his magic powers yet. I wonder if he didn't have them at that point or if they just weren't as strong.

Damien's powers aren't innate - they come from that stone idol we saw on Arrow - and he didn't yet have possession of it in the 80's, which is where this version of him originated.  I think said idol was still on Oliver's prison island at that point...

On 1/28/2017 at 2:09 PM, zannej said:

 I loved how Damian Darhk was wearing a very light colored suit.

Matt Letscher referred to it in an interview as 'the ice cream suit'  :)  Perfect for the Miami Vice-feel of the opening scene, wasn't it?

Edited January 30, 2017 by Argenta

[Sakura12]

Wow this episode only has one page of discussion. It wasn't a bad episode, but it wasn't one of my favorites. I didn't really like how they had Sara acting in this episode. I get it, that she has tunnel vision when it comes to Darhk but she was also acting dumb for a trained assassin. Why was she taking her knife out when she was nowhere near Darhk. When we saw her do a sneak attack with the hidden knife in the shogun ep. 

I did like her pickpocketing Darhk, Snart would've been proud. But not telling him his future. I'm going to blame Rip for not telling her that's what he did with Savage. 

I liked the Mick and haircut bonding with Mick realizing that Ray could never be Snart. He can only be Ray. I had forgotten how much we saw young Marty. I wouldn't mind seeing him again since we VG won't ever come back. I suppose older Martin's speech to his younger self resulted in him having a daughter. 

Now onto to the second trip to Old West. 

[Starfish35]

On 11/24/2019 at 1:19 PM, Sakura12 said:

I did like her pickpocketing Darhk, Snart would've been proud. But not telling him his future. I'm going to blame Rip for not telling her that's what he did with Savage. 

Yeah, that wasn’t smart. I think she was distracting him in order to get close enough to pickpocket him, but still.

Also wasn’t crazy about Ray trying to act like Snart.  And of course this is where the Nate/Amaya ship starts.  

But it wasn’t terrible. In contrast to last season, where any episode with Savage was automatically worse, I always enjoy the episodes with Darhk and Thawne.  I also enjoyed the bonding moments between Sara and Martin, and even between Sara and Nate.    And the scene where no one panics when Mick and Ray burst into the room with their guns, but start running and screaming as soon as Ray says “bomb”.  Mick looks at his gun afterwards like “really? When did I stop being scary?”  And deciding that if he was going to die, he was going to eat a doughnut. 😂