S07.E03: The Cell

[Primetimer]

Negan's right-hand man is stressed about everything, including breaking Daryl.

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[AngelaHunter]

8 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

One hour of abuse, threats of abuse, retelling of abuse, and constant humiliation at the hands of a clownesque scenery-chewing bully

Was that the official synopsis? If not, it should have been.  

[ghoulina]

29 minutes ago, BloatedGuppy said:

So this is one of those moments where I didn't mind the episode at all, even though a majority of this board seemed to hate it. I've always liked the downbeat, slow-burner episodes, and they seem to bore/antagonize people.

I don't mind quieter episodes. I actually really liked the cheesemaker episode from last season (although, I felt it's placement in the series was off.) Indifference, with Carol and Rick in season 4, was a lot of talking and not much happening, but it's one of my favorites. This was bad, IMO, not because it was slow, but because it centered on two characters that I find really uninteresting and unlikeable. I think it took more time than it needed to make a point. I don't think Reedus is the best actor (I do think he was better in earlier seasons, maybe now he thinks he doesn't have to try as hard?) and the pacing was just off, for me. 

[Boofish]

19 minutes ago, ElleMo said:

I get that Negan needs to break people to get them in line, but it makes no sense that he would have someone like Dwight as his right hand man.  Crazy cult leaders make the loyal people part of the inner circle.  Once you betray them, you may be part of the group, but no longer the inner circle.  

I would not let the Phantom out of my sight. And I believe Simon (he of the creepy gym teacher from every 80's horror movie look) is Negan's Robin; not Dwight.

[deemac]

I'm so grateful for this forum.....

I haven't watched an episode this season.  The Talking Dead and this forum are enough so I'll know if I ever want to resume, though I do have them DVR'd, just  no interest in watching.

[CrashTextDummie]

The only thing worse than Negan inflicting atrocities upon people is Negan talking about the atrocities he has inflicted upon people.

JDM doesn't work, but in fairness to him I'm not sure there's an actor on the planet earth who could make the material given to him work.

Daryl is not enough of a character for me to carry an entire episode so I knew going in that I wasn't going to like it much. So, glad we got it over with.

[AngelaHunter]

23 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Indifference, with Carol and Rick in season 4, was a lot of talking and not much happening, but it's one of my favorites. This was bad, IMO, not because it was slow, but because it centered on two characters that I find really uninteresting and unlikeable.

I also loved that episode and I have no problem with "slow" either. I'm not of the latest generation that can't tolerate even two minutes of "boring talking" and loses focus if there's not constant mayhem, murder and CGI explosions. I found it boring because because not only were the main characters uninteresting and unlikable, but neither Daryl nor Dwight said or did one single thing of interest. Daryl huddling, Dwight opens door, passes Alpo sammich, closes door, turns on irritating music, stares at fence, repeat x number of times, interspersed with Negan gloating/glowering/speechifying. I don't think D&D's facial expressions ever changed.

I think the only word I heard clearly from Daryl was "Daryl." He'd rather suffer than say a simple word. How noble.

[Ocean Chick]

I still like Daryl as a character, and though Norman did a great job of showing us Tortured Daryl.  If only we hadn't had several seasons of Mopey Daryl it might have come off better, which is a shame.  And Negan is waaaaaaaaaay too talky.  He bores me.  I really hope next week's episode is more interesting.  The Perils of Sherry and Dwight do not interest me, after they betrayed Daryl in the woods.  They're getting what they deserve for being @ssholes.

[Ohwell]

Was Darryl eating Alpo?  Because that was considered the creme de la creme of dog food back in the day.  My dog wouldn't eat anything else.

[BloatedGuppy]

46 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I don't think Reedus is the best actor (I do think he was better in earlier seasons, maybe now he thinks he doesn't have to try as hard?) and the pacing was just off, for me. 

Daryl seems to have declined as a character since he got cemented as an audience favorite and experienced a slow transformation from pragmatic jerkass to hillbilly with a heart of gold. Everyone has a fucking heart of gold on this show. Michonne is the truculent wanderer with the heart of gold. Carl is the dead eyed teen with the heart of gold. Rick is the morally compromised cop/father with the heart of gold. It's hearts of gold from coast to coast. I know one of the most common complaints hoisted at the show is that it's a tireless procession of psychopaths and ne'er do wells (and the show has definitely had some issues with shallow writing around its antagonists), but it's actually got the opposite problem. Shane was an interesting character before they turned him into a mustache twirler for plot machinations because he was an ruthlessly amoral prick who prioritized survival. And then when we do meet monsters, they're often like the Wolves...red of tooth and claw, completely frenzied lunatics without any clear motivation beyond "ARGLE BARGLE LOOK HOW CRAZY THE APOCALYPSE HAS MADE US".

TLDR, the show needs more shades of grey. Daryl used to occupy that area, and I think it's a huge part of why he became so popular. Now he just mopes heroically.

[tennisgurl]

I swear, Negan and his cronies literally cannot go five seconds without chewing so much scenery that I`m amazed the backgrounds and sets even exist anymore, while also never shutting the fuck up. Ever. I have seen a lot of villains (even on this show) that commit horrible acts of murder and abuse, and Negan and his gang certainly do a lot of that, but I have never seen a bunch of villains who freaking TALK ABOUT IT so much! You lose some of your villains menace when they come off as a bunch of high school bullies who think stealing lunch money from freshmen makes them badass.  

[morgankobi]

I didn't watch this, but I read the live thread. I had to go back through to see if there was a glitch, or I missed a few pages-I can't believe how little seemed to have happened. The live thread seems as if it's covering about half (or less) of an episode.

Thanks to all you guys who are still biting the bullet and watching. It's saving me the trouble!

[ghoulina]

20 minutes ago, Ocean Chick said:

 

I still like Daryl as a character, and though Norman did a great job of showing us Tortured Daryl.  If only we hadn't had several seasons of Mopey Daryl it might have come off better, which is a shame.

 

That's the problem for me. Daryl has seemed "tortured", to me, for ages. So what I saw last night didn't feel like any great departure from the norm. I want to see some range from these actors. Michonne can be sweet and understanding and funny, but then tough as nails. Rick will bite your throat out, but then be turned to a snotty mess when he realizes he can't protect his kid. Daryl is just static for me. And if he WAS expressing some new emotion, you'd never know it with all that hair in his face. 

[nodorothyparker]

28 minutes ago, BloatedGuppy said:

Daryl seems to have declined as a character since he got cemented as an audience favorite and experienced a slow transformation from pragmatic jerkass to hillbilly with a heart of gold. Everyone has a fucking heart of gold on this show. Michonne is the truculent wanderer with the heart of gold. Carl is the dead eyed teen with the heart of gold. Rick is the morally compromised cop/father with the heart of gold. It's hearts of gold from coast to coast. I know one of the most common complaints hoisted at the show is that it's a tireless procession of psychopaths and ne'er do wells (and the show has definitely had some issues with shallow writing around its antagonists), but it's actually got the opposite problem. Shane was an interesting character before they turned him into a mustache twirler for plot machinations because he was an ruthlessly amoral prick who prioritized survival. And then when we do meet monsters, they're often like the Wolves...red of tooth and claw, completely frenzied lunatics without any clear motivation beyond "ARGLE BARGLE LOOK HOW CRAZY THE APOCALYPSE HAS MADE US".

TLDR, the show needs more shades of grey. Daryl used to occupy that area, and I think it's a huge part of why he became so popular. Now he just mopes heroically.

I love this post so much I want to shoot it in the back and let it wander back to camp to live on in perpetuity.   This sums up exactly how I feel about so much of what I've come to call the interchangeable RV crew.  I can barely tell most of them apart anymore and it's become increasingly hard for me to care.  Daryl is only the most egregious example.

Edited November 7, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[HighMaintenance]

3 hours ago, oakville said:

I find it annoying that I have to watch Talking Dead to figure out what happened on the Walking Dead.

Oh this shit has been somewhat standard since season 2.  Several episodes every season, it's like the editing department forgot to include a scene or some dialog.  You'll watch a scene and think "Did I pass out for a minute?  Who is that?  Why is he doing that?  Where did he go?  What are those?"  Then good ol' Chris Harddick comes on TTD and 'splains it all, like we were dopes for not figuring it out via osmosis.

*Keeping my misspelling of Hardwick's name.  Cos he has a permanent one for Kirkman and Co.

[diebartdie]

3 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I love this post so much I want to shoot it in the back and let it wander back to camp to live on in perpetuity.  

Slow clap for the most amazing compliment I have ever read. Cheers!

[HighMaintenance]

31 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Was Darryl eating Alpo?  Because that was considered the creme de la creme of dog food back in the day.  My dog wouldn't eat anything else.

If it was good enough for Ed McMahon, it's good enuff for Barky.

[AngelaHunter]

27 minutes ago, BloatedGuppy said:

Daryl seems to have declined as a character since he got cemented as an audience favorite and experienced a slow transformation from pragmatic jerkass to hillbilly with a heart of gold. Everyone has a fucking heart of gold on this show. Michonne is the truculent wanderer with the heart of gold. Carl is the dead eyed teen with the heart of gold. Rick is the morally compromised cop/father with the heart of gold. It's hearts of gold from coast to coast. I know one of the most common complaints hoisted at the show is that it's a tireless procession of psychopaths and ne'er do wells (and the show has definitely had some issues with shallow writing around its antagonists), but it's actually got the opposite problem. Shane was an interesting character before they turned him into a mustache twirler for plot machinations because he was an ruthlessly amoral prick who prioritized survival. And then when we do meet monsters, they're often like the Wolves...red of tooth and claw, completely frenzied lunatics without any clear motivation beyond "ARGLE BARGLE LOOK HOW CRAZY THE APOCALYPSE HAS MADE US".

TLDR, the show needs more shades of grey. Daryl used to occupy that area, and I think it's a huge part of why he became so popular. Now he just mopes heroically.

Oh, yes. This x 100. Over-the-top, black/white characters are fine for comic books, but live action turns them into cardboard. Pure evil and pure good are boring. There's no surprises, no conflict. I actually do find Rick isn't that black/white. He can be ruthless and brutal but still has a good side. Shane seemed real because although he could be nasty jerkass, he still had human feelings and was cut to the quick by Lori's defection.

I think the person who annoys me the most (yeah, I know she's a fan favorite) is Michonne, simply because she is perfect. All the time. She never says or does a wrong thing or makes a mistake. She never even raises her voice. She was willing to wait patiently in the background as Rick lusted over Jessie, and gratefully accepted his "Well, I guess you'll have to do" romancing from him after Jessie bit the dust.

Daryl WAS so much more interesting when he was a prickly grouch who did have a soft side. Mumbling, mopey lapdog is dreary.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

I understand the psychology of fear Negan is working. Sure, one person may get it into his head to make an attempt on Negan. And if he fails? Then it's his/her spouse/child/sibling/parent that ends up getting Lucille'd. Many people take the threat against a loved one much more seriously than they do to themselves. And Daryl made that point tonight at the end with Dwight when he said he understood why Dwight did it - he had somebody. And then Daryl made the excellent point that Daryl doesn't have anybody. 

I heard this completely differently--that Daryl's refusal to comply was not because he doesn't have somebody, but because he does (several somebodies). At least that's how the sentence was structured when he said it.

Edited November 7, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[SoSueMe]

12 hours ago, Bees52 said:

Ok that "Easy Street" song is starting to get tortuous to me having to hear it all episode. Darryl is quite strong to withstand it.

It sounds like the Shuffle Cats commercial. That is getting old also.

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/AWIg/shuffle-cats-between-worlds-song-by-parov-stelar

[kia112]

8 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I think the person who annoys me the most (yeah, I know she's a fan favorite) is Michonne, simply because she is perfect. All the time. She never says or does a wrong thing or makes a mistake. She never even raises her voice.

I thought Michonne was fairly full of herself at the end of season 6 and made all sorts of tactical mistakes. Nothing as egregious as getting someone's head bashed in, but she's my favorite character and I was rolling my eyes at her a lot.

[Sunnydayman]

13 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

Now there are two people to hate. Negen and Dwight. Blue shirt guy had a point, Negen is just one guy. Why is everyone putting up with him? Vote him off the island like in Survivor. Or since this is the ZA someone knock him off. 

I didn't understand the walkers displayed on the road, were they there for a reason and who put them there? Or were they just falling off the bridge? 

If they would have played that Easy Street song one more time my brain was going to start bleeding. 

I was in Air Force survivor training 30 years ago.  They locked me in a tiny cell and kept playing "Birthday" by the Beatles.  Not the entire but a continuous loop of one part of the song.  I still think about that night and I can't listen to the song.  Negan is following tried and true methods of breaking Daryl down.  We'll see who wins though Daryl will be changed forever by this experience if he survives.

[candall]

2 hours ago, Timetoread said:

I didn't think Daryl could throw up since his stomach is made out of seasoned cast iron.

AH!  My animal lore comes in handy at last.

The reason you hear about "so poor she had to eat cat food" is that cat food can be digested by humans, but dog food commonly has some element--ground up bones, I think--that isn't tolerated by either cats or human digestive systems.

There you go, today's fun fact.

[MaggieG]

I guess I'll be at my table for one, because I like Negan and I still love me some Daryl. Yes, Negan talks a lot but to me he is still interesting and I want to know more about him. I do admit my John Winchester/JDM love could be clouding my judgement. How many wives does he have? He made it seem like Sherry wasn't the only one. 

[TattleTeeny]

I found it interesting that Negan is somewhat concerned with women giving consent (unlike some non-fictitious people in a position of authority).

[ElleMo]

1 hour ago, Boofish said:

I would not let the Phantom out of my sight. And I believe Simon (he of the creepy gym teacher from every 80's horror movie look) is Negan's Robin; not Dwight.

 

Right-hand man was probably the wrong term, but Dwight does seem to be part of the inner circle.  It doesn't look like many people carry weapons, but Dwight does, and he is also able to just take stuff from people with no repercussions.

And kudos for the "creepy gym teacher" description!  

Edited November 7, 2016 by ElleMo

[ElleMo]

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

I found it interesting that Negan is somewhat concerned with women giving consent (unlike some non-fictitious people in a position of authority).

It is an illusion of consent. 

If  you really think about what he said --  (paraphrasing here) "You can have your pick, as long as they say ok" -- that is contradictory.  In this scenario, Men pick, women do not, so they are only able to give consent to a man who asks.  If women truly had the ability to consent,  Dwight wouldn't need to have Negan's permission for sex at all.  It would be a private thing between two consenting adults. 

Negan is  using sex as a weapon against both men and women. He offered up his wife/ Dwight's ex-wife as a cruel joke, and then took it back.  Then he offers up some women (Any women in the place?  Someone from Negan's haram? A group of prostitutes?  Not sure who Dwight can pick from)  Then spent a good amount of time questioning whether Dwight's dick was working, which is basically questioning his manhood.  (Which Negan took when he took's Dwight wife).  

In this society, I don't think permission can be freely given.  If I know that Dwight makes a habit out of stealing food from people, I might say yes to sex because I am afraid he will do the same to me if I say no. Or I might be afraid to say no know because he had permission to ask me and I might be afraid to piss off Negan. Sherry doesn't really have the ability to say no.  She is married to Negan/has sex with him because she doesn't want Dwight killed.

Edited November 7, 2016 by ElleMo

[TattleTeeny]

Yes, I do get it (I've watched TV before and did my time as a lit major). Still thought it was interesting--though I don't agree that it's even an illusion; no one in that place buys that Negan allows autonomy of any kind among his people, and they know this well enough not to have such an "illusion."

Edited November 7, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[Boofish]

I don't think Daryl, Rick or Michonne has the "heart of gold" complex. They protect the people they love at all cost. They will kill you; make no mistake about that - even if the threat is just perceived. Morgan, Tyrese and Glenn - they have/had a heart of gold. 

40 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

I guess I'll be at my table for one, because I like Negan and I still love me some Daryl. Yes, Negan talks a lot but to me he is still interesting and I want to know more about him. I do admit my John Winchester/JDM love could be clouding my judgement. How many wives does he have? He made it seem like Sherry wasn't the only one. 

Move over; I will come and sit with you :)

[Irishmaple]

For the first time ever (including the Grady storyline here) I was bored during an episode of this show. Bored. I had a couple of knitting projects nearby for commercial breaks and ended up working during the show. I was also tempted by my book but resisted. Until I turned off Talking Dead after seeing the guests and deciding I did not care, and  then started reading. That is not how my Sunday night is supposed to go.

Is Show seriously asking me to give a fuck about Dwight and Sherri? Because I do not and will not. Their first appearance was hardly the show's finest hour. Didn't the sister die after tripping over a zombie or hugging one or something equally ridiculous? And wasn't she awfully young for Negan, which gives me another reason to dislike him. And the kneeling. Not even King Ezekiel went down that road. No.

The only thing that would have redeemed that episode for me would have been Darry's reply to Negan at the end. I know claiming his own name was meaningful for Daryl and indicative of his continued resistance, but if he'd said "Glen" instead it would have had more resonance with me. It probably wouldn't have meant anything to Negan but I would have loved it.

[magemaud]

Could somebody explain to me the purpose of the pole walkers? Are they just there to serve as a reminder of what happens if you don't cooperate, or do they have some kind of "job"? 

[AngelaHunter]

9 minutes ago, Irishmaple said:

For the first time ever (including the Grady storyline here) I was bored during an episode of this show. Bored. I had a couple of knitting projects nearby for commercial breaks and ended up working during the show.

Is Show seriously asking me to give a fuck about Dwight and Sherri? Because I do not and will not. Their first appearance was hardly the show's finest hour. Didn't the sister die after tripping over a zombie or hugging one or something equally ridiculous? And wasn't she awfully young for Negan, which gives me another reason to dislike him. And the kneeling. Not even King Ezekiel went down that road. No.

 

Couldn't care less about Dwight and Sherry.

Considering the mind-numbing length of commercial breaks on this show (which I FF and even then it takes a long time, prompting me to scream out loud, "You've got to be fucking kidding!) I'm sure you've finished a California king-sized afghan since the season began?

Kneeling: Maybe Negan is more like an old-timey emperor than a king. Anyway, you'd think he'd be intelligent enough to know that rule by terror, intimidation and murder can't be sustained, especially when the maniacal dictator is carrying only a baseball bat. Might work in the comics, but here he should at least have a machine gun slung over his shoulder as well, to quell any dissention.

14 minutes ago, magemaud said:

Could somebody explain to me the purpose of the pole walkers?

I need to know that too. As Dwight stared interminably at one of them, I thought we were going to get some deep meaning or revelation out of that.

[Irishmaple]

The impression I got was the pole Walkers are recaptured runaways or people who crossed Negan in some way. Or chose not to listen to him monologue for forty minutes. I do like the fact that people are using zombie "moats" as a deterrent. There's enough of them around so might as well put them to use. Dwight seemed to recognize one even before he added the blue-shirted widower to the yard.

[ShadowSixx]

IDK if there's a meaning for the pipe walkers. I just noticed that guys that were wearing the same clothes as Daryl was in there. Is that their testing too. It would have helped if writers delved into that if those men that were wearing the same clothes as Daryl are people that the Saviors kidnapped from Hilltop & The Kingdom and that's their test to deal with walkers. Writers missed the mark greatly in this episode, we should have learned more about the Sanctuary and how Negan operates and how he became the boss over a large army. 

Writers also need to realize that there's a big difference between comics and television. Comics can get away with cheesy dialogue because it works for comics as well as cartoons because they have more freedom to go over the top. When you're trying to create a villain that everyone kneels down for when he walks by, and call themselves Negan, and let him get away with sleeping with their wives, sisters, mothers, etc. then this better be one menacing, scary villain, but all we're getting is some cheesy frat boy who's trying to recapture his youth. I'm not saying that Negan has to be scary and menacing all the time but the dialogue needs to match the characteristics and it's not. It's just too funny that his army are carrying guns and they can execute him anytime they want and yet Negan is walking around with a bat covered in barbed wire. A bat you have to take a couple of whacks to kill but a bullet if you aim correctly can kill you instantly.

[Arnella]

I love Daryl and was happy to see that this was Daryl-centric but I have to agree with some of the criticism here.

I don't have a problem with his hair usually but we really needed to see his eyes during the confrontation.   I think even Negan would have wanted to and should have made him push it back!

I love how guileless he is (which is why he needs Carol to provide it!) but going along to get an opportunity to escape seems like a no brainer.  I understand that he went along with the Merles only because he really thought he might fit in and not to save himself.  So I don't see how he's getting out of this - Rick is too busy being Stockholm-syndromed.  It may be up to Carol and Morgan somehow.  Or is this Dwight's route to redemption?

[Ohwell]

I have to reverse myself.  Last week I said I'd rather be in Negan's harem than with Galavant fool Ezekiel.  I was wrong.  Because if I had to listen to Negan blather on and on and on, I'd wait until he was asleep and then jam Lucille up his ass.

[Diane M]

4 hours ago, Door said:

Darryl. I want to care but when is he ever clean? He literally looks no different than when he was free. I hope they water torture him next episode or something because I am wayyyy tired of seeing Darryl Dixon filthy and with greasy bangs artfully cut and arranged ~just so~ around his face. 

Bingo!  He hasn't been clean since Season 2 when his hair was short and you could see his eyes.  Time for him to be caught in a rainstorm 'cause I can't imagine him actually bathing on purpose.

Why was Gordon walking down the road where he could be seen?  If he wanted to escape, he should have used the trees for cover.

Where are Rick and the rest of his gang?

What does Negan want from Daryl?  When Daryl finally told him his name, Dwight tossed him back in the cell.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Diane M

[Rosiejuliemom]

1 minute ago, Diane M said:

Bingo!  He hasn't been clean since Season 2 when his hair was short and you could see his eyes.  Time for him to be caught in a rainstorm 'cause I can't imagine him actually bathing on purpose.

The last time he was caught in a rainstorm it just made the situation worse. At this point, I'll be content if he clips his bangs back.

Unless I missed one, I don't think we got any Matthew Mcconaughey commercials last night. Did this episode bore even him?

[Christi]

Ive hated all three episodes so far...and this was my favorite show?

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

What does Negan want from Daryl?  When Daryl finally told him his name, Dwight tossed him back in the cell.

He wants him to respond with, "I am Negan," as opposed to his own name.

 

Like Negan or hate him, he's a loon to let filthy folks into his surprisingly neat and orderly apartment! 

Edited November 7, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[RustbeltWriter]

I just can't get behind this Negan character. His whole thing about "allowing" Dwight to have sex as long as he can find a woman to "say yes" smacks of an effort by the showrunners to give him the redeeming quality of not being a rapist. They completely gloss over the fact that women who are sleeping with Negan are being coerced and intimidated into the act. "Oh, he has a code." Well, not really. He's just a bully. I think it's telling that we get so few origin stories on this show so the creators just get to drop a jerk like Negan on us and don't have to explain where he came from or why he is the way he is. I enjoyed that last week with Ezekiel but so far it's like Negan just sprouted from the ground wearing a Fonzie costume.

Edited November 7, 2016 by RustbeltWriter

[meep.meep]

7 hours ago, lulee said:

Opening an episode about a community run by a sociopath with the Who's the Boss? credits? That's a bit on the nose. 

Following it with musical torture about being on Easy Street was definitely going too far.

These show runners need to buy a great big Subtle card.

And Neeegan can just shut up now.  He'd be so much scarier if he would just spontaneously be violent.  But no, not that!  He's got to talk about it for forever.  Maybe Mr. Morgan has contracted to be paid by the word?

[Diane M]

Oh, right.....I am Negan.  Can't imagine Daryl ever saying that.

I tape the show so I can FF through the many commercials.  I think there must be only a half hour of TWD.  Too bad it isn't on HBO.

[TattleTeeny]

Maybe he should say it...then get a job "on the fence" (felt weird to refer to Daryl as "on the pole"), where he could put his spray-painted sweatsuit on a walker and then run away into the woods, leaving behind Negan's people to assume he got bit-'n'-turned!

(Lest anyone think I'm serious about this sitcomesque suggestion, I will preemptively say I'm not. The scenario--along with the jaunty soundtrack I conjured in my head--just made me laugh.)

Quote

I just can't get behind this Negan character. His whole thing about "allowing" Dwight to have sex as long as he can find a woman to "say yes" smacks of an effort by the showrunners to give him the redeeming quality of not being a rapist. They completely gloss over the fact that women who are sleeping with Negan are being coerced and intimidated into the act. 

I am sure everyone understands this already. I can't imagine that the creators are trying to portray Negan as an OK guy. I can imagine even less that any watcher of this show believes those things to be "completely gloss[ed] over." Quite the opposite, I'd guess; they're just so completely obvious that there is absolutely no need to spell out "Negan bad." No one is supposed to assume the women are all fine and dandy with it. 

Edited November 7, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[JackONeill]

Not that I'm looking for vindication, but I've deliberately sat out the last episodes. Sounds like last week's ep. was the better of the two, sort of fluffiness to get rid of the taste of the first ep. But then came this ep. It sounded dark (which is funny given what TWD is all about.) But I've gotten tired of the complete grimness this show has been practically wallowing in these last few episodes. With the anxiety and anger caused by the election, who needs this shit for entertainment?

[AngelaHunter]

27 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

These show runners need to buy a great big Subtle card.

And Neeegan can just shut up now.  He'd be so much scarier if he would just spontaneously be violent.  But no, not that!  He's got to talk about it for forever.  Maybe Mr. Morgan has contracted to be paid by the word?

I've been saying that about subtlety for years. Either the show runners are idiots or they think we are, in that we won't "get" anything unless we're Lucilled over the head with it. Oh, man, I would have loved to see this show on HBO with someone like David Chase (Sopranos) running it.

13 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Maybe he should say it...then get a job "on the fence" (felt weird to refer to Daryl as "on the pole"), 

Not if you're a fanfiction writer! I don't want to be vulgar, but that's exactly where they dream of seeing Daryl - all the time.

 

31 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

Maybe Mr. Morgan has contracted to be paid by the word?

Good thing Norman Reedus isn't paid by the word. His paychecks would be in the double digits.

[ghoulina]

2 hours ago, Irishmaple said:

That is not how my Sunday night is supposed to go.

My Sundays just don't have the same feel to them either. I used to post immediately after watching, and watch TTD whilst posting. Last night? I never cracked open the laptop. I figured - "I'll see what the forum has to say tomorrow". Didn't even watch TTD. I watched RHNJ reunion instead. It's sad. 

 

2 hours ago, Irishmaple said:

And the kneeling. Not even King Ezekiel went down that road. No.

I would bow to Ezekial before I'd bow to Negan. At least that way it would be in fun, some sort of mock Renaissance play - not catering the giant ego of a huge asshole. 

 

1 hour ago, Irishmaple said:

The impression I got was the pole Walkers are recaptured runaways or people who crossed Negan in some way. Or chose not to listen to him monologue for forty minutes. I do like the fact that people are using zombie "moats" as a deterrent. There's enough of them around so might as well put them to use. Dwight seemed to recognize one even before he added the blue-shirted widower to the yard.

Yea, I saw it as serving a dual purpose. Protection - and a reminder. Heads on stakes and whatnot. I thought Dwight kept being mesmerized by them because he's wondering if he made the right choice. Maybe it would have been better if he went the Gordon route. He's alive. But he ain't happy. 

 

1 hour ago, Arnella said:

I don't have a problem with his hair usually but we really needed to see his eyes during the confrontation.   I think even Negan would have wanted to and should have made him push it back!

I need Cady Heron to show up and tell him his hair looks sexy pushed back. 

[Ruprecht]

If I'm honest, I know that in order for this plot to pay off, the characters are going to have to suffer and that means I as a viewer am going to have to suffer (from boredom or irritation it looks like). The problem here is that they have a villain who's reputation as the ultimate "big bad" has proceeded him and unless this is done just right, will be a letdown (at least for me). I hear Syndrome (The Incredibles) say "You caught me monologing!" every time JDM as Negan gets going. I also thought the show did a huge disservice to the viewers by the fake-out death of Glen under the dumpster followed by the bait-and-switch finale with the question "who dies!?!?!" They really needed a gut-punch death and Glen certainly fit that description. When I thought he was a goner the first time, I really was upset (shed tears, even!). So when he survived, I felt manipulated and his "second" death, while shocking, did not move me as I think the writers were hoping it would. I thought the moment for that was lost by the hype. 

It doesn't make sense to me that Negan wants Daryl as a right-hand man. Dwight is staying in line only because Negan keeps him on a virtual leash by taking Dwight's wife as a hostage. I can buy that Negan wants to break Daryl so he can eliminate a threat. However, what does work is that Negan the man is surrounded by "Negans" just like him - evil men who are enjoying the power they have now because of him and they prop him up and protect him (hence why he's not killed in his sleep). These people didn't need to be broken - they were already looking for an outlet for those urges and now have it. That was better illustrated last week when Negan wasn't even in the episode and his henchman enjoyed taunting the "Kingdom" people who were giving up the share.

I do contrast this to the "Terminus" plot which came completely out of left field for me and showed the characters in real peril. Gareth was one of the scariest villains ever even with the limited screen time (even more than the governor). But Negan? He may be great in the comics but on screen he doesn't do it for me. But I do hope that the confrontation to come (and I'm sure there has to be one) will pay off, hopefully with Maggie using Lucille to bash Negan's head in. 

[piequinn35]

Boring episode but I did like the song "Easy Street" :))

[peach]

3 hours ago, ElleMo said:

It is an illusion of consent. 

If  you really think about what he said --  (paraphrasing here) "You can have your pick, as long as they say ok" -- that is contradictory.  In this scenario, Men pick, women do not, so they are only able to give consent to a man who asks.  If women truly had the ability to consent,  Dwight wouldn't need to have Negan's permission for sex at all.  It would be a private thing between two consenting adults.

Well, even Dwight barely has consent.  It wasn't his idea, and he didn't want to, and he risked Negan's wrath when he said no.  He had to hem and haw and say he hadn't "earned" it yet.  And this supposed "prize" of getting to pick a woman wasn't really a reward, it was to further distance him from Sherry.   Negan could possibly force Dwight into a "marriage" if he wanted.

"As long as they say ok" was so weird anyway.  I can't imagine any women are sitting around just waiting to get a crack at Dwight.