S01.E07: Scientia Potentia Est

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

As the Soviets test the H-bomb, both Churchill and Eden have major health crises. Angry about her inadequate education, Elizabeth hires a tutor.

 

[millk]

"Because they're English, male and upperclass. A good dressing down from Nanny is what they most want in life." 

Ha! 

[SeanC]

2 hours ago, millk said:

"Because they're English, male and upperclass. A good dressing down from Nanny is what they most want in life." 

Ha! 

Definitely the best line of the series.  Though I'm also partial to another from this episode, where Lascelles responds to Adeane's convoluted explanation for how he got word of the impending usurpation of his position via various people talking, culminating in his wife playing tennis with somebody else's wife, "as you may know" by saying "Why on Earth would I know that?"

I like, by the way, that the series is able to give Lascelles an articulable viewpoint for why protocol should be followed so rigidly, since that's something most series never really manage to do for characters advocating for traditionalism.

A minor point I like is how this episode showcases both the decline of British power on the international stage and the way they can leverage the prestige of the royal family effectively, as when they figure that Eisenhower won't be able to resist the lure of an invitation to Buckingham Palace.

Was this the first episode we've seen the corgis in the present (of the series) day scenes?

[WatchrTina]

If you want to check out a bio-pic on this same time period from the Churchill point of view look for "Churchill's Secret" starring Michael Gambon, which I think I saw on PBS earlier this year.

Now about the Queen's private secretary -- did she get the one she wanted or didn't she?  I became confused because the guy who was retiring kept saying "It is, of course, your choice" but then he chastised her about making that choice, calling up he specter of her uncle, the former King Edward, flouting tradition and surrounding himself with favorites -- the beginning of the slippery slope that led to his abdication.  I've watched the subsequent episodes as well (I binge-watched them all in a day) but all those supporting players start to look alike after a while and I genuinely can't recall if her private secretary in the later eps is the one she wanted (the one she had when she and Phillip toured Africa and they learned of the King's death) or if she bowed to tradition and protocol and took on the more senior of the two under-secretaries.

I did love the scene when she calls in her very first private secretary (who now works with the Prime Minister) to ask advice about the matter and he ends up spilling the beans about Winston's illness.  That's what guilty consciences will do!

I found the conversation between the Queen and her tutor to be a bit unrealistic.  It was just too candid and familiar -- especially his telling her that upper class British men all secretly want a dressing-down from "nanny" -- but I did like (and believe) the idea that the Queen has many advisors, some of whom are not part of the established palace or governmental hierarchy, and whose contributions will never be known by anyone. 

So . . . since I'm not British I did not understand that dig that the Queen delivered during the dressing-down she gave the first minister.  I did a bit of Googling and found out that apparently the saying "History teaches; Never trust a Cecil" stems from the reigns of Henry VIII and Elizabeth I and relates to the behavior of one William Cecil, 1st Baron Burghley and/or his son Robert Cecil, first Earl of Salisbury -- both of whom were advisors to Elizabeth I.  I didn't know that quote but of course their descendant, the current Earl of Salisbury would.  Imagine growing up knowing that at your name and your line had been declared untrustworthy almost 300 years ago during the reign of Elizabeth I and then to find yourself in the presence of Elizabeth II to hear her saying "My father told me that the old saying 'History teaches, never trust a Cecil' was unfair.  Perhaps not."  Oh snap!  Dude, you want some aloe vera for that burn?

Edited November 6, 2016 by WatchrTina

[Arynm]

She took the more senior one named Michael. Elizabeth comes off as a bit wishy washy at times, I hope it's just temporary as she gets her footing.

7 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

I've watched the subsequent episodes as well (I binge-watched them all in a day) but all those supporting players start to look alike after a while and I genuinely can't recall if her private secretary in the later eps is the one she wanted (the one she had when she and Phillip toured Africa and they learned of the King's death) or if she bowed to tradition and protocol and took on the more senior of the two under-secretaries.

[Minivanessa]

@WatchrTina, the Queen didn't get the Private Secretary she wanted (Martin Charteris). She got Michael Adean instead. (As I was writing this @Arynm's answer popped up.)

I know what you mean about the supporting characters starting to look alike. I really have that problem with the Cabinet in this series!  

Thanks for sharing the Cecil background. So many nuances to the events in this series, and every bit of knowledge helps.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Jeeves
Removed links to bios of Charteris and Adean because they could be considered spoilers in this episode discussion.

[dubbel zout]

7 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I found the conversation between the Queen and her tutor to be a bit unrealistic.

Unrealistic dialogue doesn't bother me in this case, as it's to move the story along so the points can be reached. The queen starts to come into her own as sovereign, realizing that she can speak up and how to do it.

She did ask for a tutor with a sense of humor, which I took to mean she didn't want a traditionalist like the vice provost of Eton. I like that she wanted to step up intellectually, and that it was necessary. That couldn't have been easy, knowing how inadequate most of her education had been.

[PRgal]

I felt so badly for Elizabeth in the early scene where she was with her tutor at Eton - she saw those math papers and asked if she could be taught that as well - only to be told no (inappropriate for someone like her).  I'm unsure whether MATH would have really helped her as much as how to speak/discuss issues with politicians and such, however.  I have to admit that I have bitched to my parents about MY lack of certain subjects - that my parents should have encouraged me to take more finance/business courses.  I'm trying to catch up now, and while I'm happy with my BA in history (East Asian studies)/Drama and master's in the History of Education, if I had to do my undergrad over, I probably would have done something else  No one ever told me that finance isn't the right major for "a lady," however (though my grandmother banished me from the kitchen because she didn't feel it was appropriate for one (WTF??!!!).

[vibeology]

39 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I felt so badly for Elizabeth in the early scene where she was with her tutor at Eton - she saw those math papers and asked if she could be taught that as well - only to be told no (inappropriate for someone like her).  I'm unsure whether MATH would have really helped her as much as how to speak/discuss issues with politicians and such, however.  I have to admit that I have bitched to my parents about MY lack of certain subjects - that my parents should have encouraged me to take more finance/business courses.  I'm trying to catch up now, and while I'm happy with my BA in history (East Asian studies)/Drama and master's in the History of Education, if I had to do my undergrad over, I probably would have done something else  No one ever told me that finance isn't the right major for "a lady," however (though my grandmother banished me from the kitchen because she didn't feel it was appropriate for one (WTF??!!!).

I do agree that algebra probably wouldn't have much relevance to her life, but she was totally short-changed in terms of an education. Finance would have been very useful. History, philosophy, architecture, literature and the rest of the "classics" would have given her a solid base to have conversations with Statesmen even if she didn't know the fine details of what they did. If all she could talk about was horseracing and the weather, it makes her role so much more challenging.  There was an Eton education that the men she was going to have to interact with one day as her government were getting and she was so totally cut off from it and it's unsurprising that she felt that as a burden later in life.

I do wish she had dove into the Military-Industrial Complex. While it's obviously an America idea, it was so important during the Cold War that some familiarity with it would have been good and helped her stay on top of news items.

[VCRTracking]

After finishing the episode I feel I have to use this gif from Broad City:

[Calamity Jane]

Churchill lecturing Elizabeth about how the Americans needed someone with experience to guide them through dealing with the Soviets - arrrrghh, so that every secret revealed could go straight to Moscow via the many spies the Kremlin had in British Intelligence!  It is a portrait of a decaying empire, institutions on all sides crumbling.  Elizabeth, to me, gets credit for beginning to realize the monarchy needed to start pushing forward, and we certainly saw that come to fruition in the 1990s.  The inflexibility of the traditions and bureaucracy in the show resemble those of any empire coming to its end - Imperial Russia in the days of Nicholas II comes to mind, or France in the 1780s, when everyone knew changes had to be made, but nobody figured out how to make them without resorting to violent means.  

So, we are seeing hints of a frostiness in Elizabeth's marriage, and  that long, long gap of 10 years between Anne and Andrew is very suggestive of problems.  Do we learn more about this, I wonder?  

Just by the way, John Lithgow is amazing as Churchill.  

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, Calamity Jane said:

So, we are seeing hints of a frostiness in Elizabeth's marriage, and  that long, long gap of 10 years between Anne and Andrew is very suggestive of problems.  Do we learn more about this, I wonder?

Not in this season, as it ends with Churchill's retirement. If season 2 covers the 1960s, it's highly likely we'll get some story out of it.

[Calamity Jane]

32 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

 

  Hide contents

Not in this season, as it ends with Churchill's retirement. If season 2 covers the 1960s, it's highly likely we'll get some story out of it.

Thanks!

[Primetimer]

And for Churchill that means a comically small chair.

View the full article

[teddysmom]

If I get thru these 10 episodes without throwing something at the tv when Tommy Lascelles is on screen it will be a miracle. Remind me which one of you is Queen again, you conniving snake.

[GaT]

Everybody treats the Queen as a small child who needs guidance for everything. Does she not have any power at all? I don't understand why she doesn't call a big meeting of everyone & read them the riot act.

She keeps referring to herself as a young girl, but she has a bunch of gray streaks in the front of her hair so I have no idea how old she's supposed to be.

[PRgal]

4 hours ago, GaT said:

Everybody treats the Queen as a small child who needs guidance for everything. Does she not have any power at all? I don't understand why she doesn't call a big meeting of everyone & read them the riot act.

She keeps referring to herself as a young girl, but she has a bunch of gray streaks in the front of her hair so I have no idea how old she's supposed to be.

The British Crown doesn't really have much power.  That lies in Parliament.  Season I takes place when Elizabeth II was in her late 20s. 

[Rinaldo]

The Crown's main responsibility is to respond as required to the information it is given. The great thing in this episode was seeing the Queen come to the realization that this gives her a moral high ground in the present situation: the Crown cannot do this duty if it is not given the information, and therefore the others were reprehensibly (almost treasonously) remiss in hiding such important things from her, and she can say so. 

[teddysmom]

Quote

 

verybody treats the Queen as a small child who needs guidance for everything. Does she not have any power at all? I don't understand why she doesn't call a big meeting of everyone & read them the riot act.

She keeps referring to herself as a young girl, but she has a bunch of gray streaks in the front of her hair so I have no idea how old she's supposed to be.

 

She was only 25 or so when she ascended to the Throne. That's pretty young.  They were treating her like that because she was so young, and also shy and not sure of herself.  

I saw Claire Foy on Colbert and she had blonde hair. I was wondering if they pulled a few tiny strands of her hair up into the wig so that it looked more natural.  

[PRgal]

5 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

She was only 25 or so when she ascended to the Throne. That's pretty young.  They were treating her like that because she was so young, and also shy and not sure of herself.  

I saw Claire Foy on Colbert and she had blonde hair. I was wondering if they pulled a few tiny strands of her hair up into the wig so that it looked more natural.  

Twenty-five year olds are adults and should be treated as such, but from MY OWN EXPERIENCE, older adults (especially if the KNEW people as kids, like Churchill did) NEVER DO SO as they still see them as kids.  And of those who did not know the younger party as children, just because they're of a different generation automatically turns on the "you're a young'un, so you're a child to me" bulb.  Plus she's a woman and the cranky old men were from a different century.

[dubbel zout]

I'm not sure how much prep her father gave her. We saw that scene where he discussed the red boxes, but that's it.

Spoiler

I know that lack of preparation (and education) was one reason they got Charles more involved. (He also demanded it and caused some ripples, as people thought he was overstepping his role.) And William has been active, at least ceremonially, in certain areas. 

Edited November 10, 2016 by Athena
Added spoiler tags

[Minivanessa]

45 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Twenty-five year olds are adults and should be treated as such, but from MY OWN EXPERIENCE, older adults (especially if the KNEW people as kids, like Churchill did) NEVER DO SO as they still see them as kids.  And of those who did not know the younger party as children, just because they're of a different generation automatically turns on the "you're a young'un, so you're a child to me" bulb.  Plus she's a woman and the cranky old men were from a different century.

So were her parents. Her mother seemed serenely sure that they had given Elizabeth an appropriate education - and serenely unaware of how incredibly fast the world around them had changed and was changing.

Elizabeth's parents were actually born before motor vehicles were in use (maybe before they were even in production at all), before radio, and movies, and airplanes. The pace of technological change alone was astounding during their lifetimes, and in this episode the young Queen - after a televised coronation - is confronted with issues about the H-bomb. Social changes were slow to be reflected in the lives of Royals, but Elizabeth wanted to be able to converse with the people she was meeting, about more than the weather and horses. I think she was encountering a wider variety of people in the course of her official duties, than her grandfather would have. 

[Athena]

Please spoiler tag "future" information and speculation. If it's not in the show or about the episode, tag it or move the discussion to the History or Speculation (Gossip) threads. More clarification in the thread about Future History. Thank you!

[dubbel zout]

50 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

Her mother seemed serenely sure that they had given Elizabeth an appropriate education

That really surprised me, given that Elizabeth was 11 at the time of the abdication. She became the heiress presumptive at that point. She got a good grounding in constitutional history, which was appropriate, but you'd think they'd also want her to know about the world around her. She was going to be the head of the Commonwealth. That's a not insignificant number of countries around the world.

[anna0852]

But Elizabeth was still a girl and the Queen Mother still has childbearing years ahead of her. A prince could have usurped Elizabeth in the line-up. A remote chance for sure but a chance none the less. And I don't think anyone expected George to die so soon. I believe they felt Elizabeth would be much older and there would be more time to prepare her. At the very least, her marriage wouldn't be quite so new and her husband would have shouldered more of the burden. A Prince Phillip that has gotten a good 10-15 years more out of his naval career might have been much more a support in those early years than the resentful Prince Phillip we're seeing.

[dubbel zout]

15 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

the Queen Mother still has childbearing years ahead of her

That doesn't mean more children were in the offing. There are plenty of reasons the two daughters were going to be it. And regardless of how long everyone thought George's reign was going to be, properly educating the heir should have been more of a priority. But it was a class/gender issue more than anything else, I think. Luckily, Elizabeth herself has native intelligence and seems to do her due diligence.

[WatchrTina]

I just re-watched the ep and Philip's line at the very end about how she could "get on her knees" bugged me as much this time as last time though I'm trying to accept that it's just normal sexual banter between a married couple. Clearly Elizabeth didn't mind the quip.  Still, I did wonder why it was even in the show, but now I realize it was so we could see her make the decision to skip her meeting with the new private secretary -- the one she didn't want.  She lost that battle but the dressing down she had just given Salisbury and Churchill gave her the confidence and gumption to blow-off her new secretary in favor of a roll in the sack with her husband -- something I doubt she would ever have done had "Tommy" been waiting to see her.

[Brn2bwild]

On 11/10/2016 at 7:19 AM, Jeeves said:

So were her parents. Her mother seemed serenely sure that they had given Elizabeth an appropriate education - and serenely unaware of how incredibly fast the world around them had changed and was changing.

The irony was that during Queen Victoria's time, Prince Albert gave his daughters a really thorough education, more advanced than most women would have received.  Vicky, the Princess Royal, was supposed to be brilliant.  Yet less than 100 years later, the princesses are back to being viewed as ornaments.

[Quilt Fairy]

Earlier this year I read a biography of the Queen (the title of which I can't remember) and I recall a section about her education which ended with the comment "It's not that the Queen was poorly educated, it's more appropriate to say that she was differently educated."

[tanita]

If my memory is correct, it was stated that Elizabeth was born via caesarean, which means that Margaret was too. Having multiple cessation deliveries isn't advisable. Once you have a child delivered via it, all subsequent deliveries will be caesareans. So in a way, it was somewhat irresponsible that they didn't educate her more throughout because they must have known that that was it as far as children were concerned.

[Bec]

QE came off pretty damn smart for realizing she needs more education.

That part where the staff is looking for QE's old school notes - that's the down side of having several palaces and castles. If you forget where you put something, it'll take you forever and a day to find it!

I laughed out loud at Adeane's long-ass explanation of all the gossip channels he got his news from. It's like a game of telephone!

And yes! I liked how Tommy has an actual explanation that makes sense for why he's such a stickler for protocol. I mean, I was on side with The Queen getting whichever secretary she damn well pleases because she is The Queen. But I still couldn't help but think: "Huh, Tommy has a point."

It was pretty ill-advised for Martin to start getting that tree trimmed already. If this is how he deals with a promotion that wasn't a sure thing yet, Tommy's not wrong that maybe Martin is not ready to be Tommy's replacement.

I mean, this position is about getting shit done, sometimes shit that is not nice. Does Martin have the guts to advise The Queen against missteps despite how displeased that would make her? I'm not so sure he does. Maybe he will in time, but not yet.

And I might have teared up a little at Winston Churchill telling QE she is ready and soon he can step down having fulfilled his duty to her father. Aww… *sniff*

[vavera4ka]

Didn't QE say (while on the trip in Kenya) that she was a mechanic during the war? I'd think that for that she'd need SOME knowledge of science... Or was it "take this thingamajiggy turn it that way and pray it worked"?

 

It's also the second time they made me dislike a character I started out liking.

First was Townsend with how much he enjoyed popularity and his "Lilibeth"

Now Martin with tree trimming...

[dubbel zout]

30 minutes ago, vavera4ka said:

Didn't QE say (while on the trip in Kenya) that she was a mechanic during the war? I'd think that for that she'd need SOME knowledge of science... Or was it "take this thingamajiggy turn it that way and pray it worked"?

She worked as a truck mechanic for the ATS (I think) during the war. Her skills are legit, and she's still proud of that training.

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, vavera4ka said:

Didn't QE say (while on the trip in Kenya) that she was a mechanic during the war? I'd think that for that she'd need SOME knowledge of science... Or was it "take this thingamajiggy turn it that way and pray it worked"?

That would have been purely practical mechanical training, I expect.

[formerlyfreedom]

13 hours ago, vavera4ka said:

Didn't QE say (while on the trip in Kenya) that she was a mechanic during the war?

Per Wikipedia (and I've read it in other sources);

Quote

In February 1945, [QEII] joined the Women's Auxiliary Territorial Service as an honorary second subaltern with the service number of 230873.[31] She trained as a driver and mechanic and was promoted to honorary junior commander five months later.

[millk]

A newsreel. 

[Clanstarling]

On 11/6/2016 at 6:19 AM, WatchrTina said:

So . . . since I'm not British I did not understand that dig that the Queen delivered during the dressing-down she gave the first minister.

I've watched and read so much on the Tudors that I got it, though I didn't specifically remember the family. I laughed long and hard at the excellent, very, very British uppercrust burn, while the mister was "what?"

On 11/12/2016 at 5:05 PM, WatchrTina said:

I just re-watched the ep and Philip's line at the very end about how she could "get on her knees" bugged me as much this time as last time though I'm trying to accept that it's just normal sexual banter between a married couple. Clearly Elizabeth didn't mind the quip.  

It did take me out for a moment, because it was crude, particularly for this show. After thinking about it, I think it wasn't quite meant to be - his line before that was that she'd grown so "tall" that he would need stilts to get to her...or she could get on her knees - which I think was intended to mean to bring them to the same height. But if that is the case, then it was definitely written without anyone piping up saying "hey, you do realize what that phrase means these days, right?"

On 11/14/2016 at 10:13 PM, Bec said:

And yes! I liked how Tommy has an actual explanation that makes sense for why he's such a stickler for protocol. I mean, I was on side with The Queen getting whichever secretary she damn well pleases because she is The Queen. But I still couldn't help but think: "Huh, Tommy has a point."

I thought so too, but then after thinking about it, I thought it didn't really hold much water, as his examples were all about Edward and the case in point was the promotion of secretaries (by natural right, really?) I think there might well be good arguments for how important it is for the next secretary in line to get the job, but he slipped right past that topic and brought up everyone's royal boogy man.

As for the education of Elizabeth, I just think it's awful she didn't get a basic education - not because she would or would not need it as a queen, but because she should have it as a human being.

[roamyn]

You can tell she doesn't have much chemistry or closeness w/Michael.  

Spoiler

Eventually Martin does become her secretary, but not intil7the 70s, and then only for a few years.

I think its6odd Tommy has to retire aft 33 years. He's done a good job, even if he's such a sanctimonious prick.

Edited December 8, 2016 by saoirse
Please spoiler tag future history information

[dubbel zout]

Thirty-three years is a decent career.

[rubyred]

On 11/19/2016 at 1:34 PM, roamyn said:

You can tell she doesn't have much chemistry or closeness w/Michael.  

Spoiler

Eventually Martin does become her secretary, but not intil7the 70s, and then only for a few years.

I think its6odd Tommy has to retire aft 33 years. He's done a good job, even if he's such a sanctimonious prick.

 

Spoiler

What I found funny was that Michael Adeane seemed to hate the job (in the show). He braced himself every time he had to speak with her. Careful what you wish for, Michael!

Tommy Lascelles does come across as an officious, judgmental jackass, but he has his reasons and I give the show credit for letting him state his POV. (Also Pip Torrens has been fantastic in the role). However,  times were changing, and there was no stopping it. Watching all these old white men cling to power and fantasies about "the Empire" when it was simply becoming a different world has been really interesting. They sensed the change, and they fought it tooth and nail, partly by hiding behind "tradition," but it was inevitable IMO that the commonwealth countries would want independence. Why the hell wouldn't they? Churchill railing about "losing" India -- stfu, Winston. Your myopia, cultural condescension, and insularism are showing. 

Personally I don't get the urge to build empires. The logistics alone are staggering. How the British expected to keep control of all of the commonwealth nations forever is beyond me. But it wasn't the first, and probably won't be the last, attempt by some nation to "control" as much of the world as possible.

[Mrs Shibbles]

The 'never trust a Cecil' line made me think of Richard Attenborough's character in the Cate Blanchett Elizabeth movie.

[corter20]

On 11/19/2016 at 8:33 AM, Clanstarling said:

 

On 11/12/2016 at 7:05 PM, WatchrTina said:

I just re-watched the ep and Philip's line at the very end about how she could "get on her knees" bugged me as much this time as last time though I'm trying to accept that it's just normal sexual banter between a married couple. Clearly Elizabeth didn't mind the quip.  

It did take me out for a moment, because it was crude, particularly for this show. After thinking about it, I think it wasn't quite meant to be - his line before that was that she'd grown so "tall" that he would need stilts to get to her...or she could get on her knees - which I think was intended to mean to bring them to the same height. But if that is the case, then it was definitely written without anyone piping up saying "hey, you do realize what that phrase means these days, right?"

On 11/15/2016 at 0:13 AM, Bec said:

I thought this as well, but the more that I have been thinking about it, I definitely believe it means exactly what it means. I say this because I believe QE was in a state where she had been concerned about Philip's whereabouts and his actions (specifically pertaining to other women). It was clear in one of the episodes where she was expecting some sort of affection, but she was denied it as he walked away. When he made that innuendo at the end and they showed her response, to me, it showed that she was a bit relieved and maybe even a tad excited that he was still interested in her. The whole conversation leading up to the innuendo had some sexual tones in it.

[ciprus]

It's very eye-opening to me how little power QE2 had to make any decisions, even about her own family and private relationships. I so relished when she dressed down Salisbury and Churchill. Finally she got to actually speak her mind! Winston really did look like a little boy getting dressed down by Nanny. Loved. It. 

I feel a great deal of affection for QE now, that I certainly hadn't before. She's always been this constant figure, but seeing her as a young woman with everything she had to struggle with is really something.

[Eyes High]

On 11/23/2016 at 7:08 PM, Mrs Shibbles said:

The 'never trust a Cecil' line made me think of Richard Attenborough's character in the Cate Blanchett Elizabeth movie.

Ha, me too!

Professor Hogg looked right out of central casting for "distinguished elderly professor"...amusingly so, because I had a professor who looked just like him.

I loved the line about how getting a dressing down from a nanny is what all British, upper-class men secretly want most in the world.

[dubbel zout]

Why do you think they love to be spanked as adults? ;-)

[txhorns79]

Quote

It's very eye-opening to me how little power QE2 had to make any decisions, even about her own family and private relationships. I so relished when she dressed down Salisbury and Churchill. Finally she got to actually speak her mind! Winston really did look like a little boy getting dressed down by Nanny. Loved. It. 

I thought John Lithgow was great in that scene.  He really looked as though he was about to burst into tears at any given moment, and I felt very sorry for him, even though he was a lying ass. 

[Constantinople]

Quote

Winston: If she knew the truth, she would bid me stand down
Clementine: Good.
Winston: A replacement would have to be found.  The wrong replacement, because the right man, Anthony, is himself incapacitated.

I'm guessing that replacement at that time would most likely have been R.A. Butler.  Regardless of who it was, it sounds as if, in Churchill's view, it would have been the "spare" not the "heir".

Quote

Elizabeth: And I think I could work quite well with Martin Charteris.
Lascelles: Martin Charteris?
Elizabeth: Yes.  I assume you'll give that your blessing.
Lascelles: Martin is the junior deputy private secretary, Ma'am, the spare.  Michael Adeane is the senior.  The rightful heir.

I guess neither Churchill nor Lascelles liked queue jumpers, but Lascelles was more upfront and honest about it.

In any case, I thought it was an interesting parallel.

[Crs97]

What I have found interesting is that you think you are watching a story about Queen Elizabeth, and each episode reminds you that you are truly watching a story about "the Crown" when you see she even fights it and loses every time.

[Jan Spears]

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 11:26 PM, Brn2bwild said:

The irony was that during Queen Victoria's time, Prince Albert gave his daughters a really thorough education, more advanced than most women would have received.  Vicky, the Princess Royal, was supposed to be brilliant.  Yet less than 100 years later, the princesses are back to being viewed as ornaments.

Princess Victoria (Vicky) was very well-educated during the 1840s and 1850s. Her letters to Queen Victoria have been published and they reveal just how intelligent and educated she really was.

The educations of Princess Elizabeth and Princess Margaret were a major point of contention between Queen Mary and her daughter-in-law, the future Queen Elizabeth. Queen Mary didn't hesitate to point out what she felt were the sizeable gaps in the two princesses' educations. For her part, Queen Elizabeth professed to be puzzled by Queen Mary's criticisms. She said something to the effect that neither she nor any of her sisters had had much in the way of formal education and that we all married well -- one of us very well. I'm not sure when Queen Elizabeth said this -- it may have been before the abdication crisis. But her attitude reveals just how little value she (and her husband) put on any kind of extensive education for young girls.

[GinnyMars]

On 01/12/2016 at 6:04 PM, txhorns79 said:

I thought John Lithgow was great in that scene.  He really looked as though he was about to burst into tears at any given moment, and I felt very sorry for him, even though he was a lying ass. 

I think he did cry: one moment he seemed ready to burst into tears, the next, they focused on Elizabeth, and then, we see him placing his handkerchief back in his pocket...