Unpopular Opinions Thread

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

That's what caused my cousin's dementia.  She was having lots of mini stokes. It's called Vascular dementia after it reaches a certain point. Later on, it seems to progress like other conditions that cause dementia, like Alzheimers. (Most people with it do have certain risk factors like obesity, hypertension, diabetes, etc.).  I don't think Rebecca has any of those, so,  I'll be curious to see how they handle this with Rebecca.  Right now, it appears to be at the point of Cognitive Decline, but, it may or may not progress.  We'll see if she gets a real evaluation or not.  If they go the Alzheimer's route, it's going to be sad, but, predictable.   And, I'm going to be very disappointed if they just portray dementia as someone losing their memory.  It's soooo much more. (Incontinence, loss of mobility, poor balance, sleep disorders, depression, etc.)

My grandmother had that.  She was not obese nor did she have diabetes.  But she had a stressful life (husband issues since she was in her 30s plus immigration (came to Canada from Hong Kong in the 70s)), even if it was fairly privileged (she was always very well taken care of by my parents)).  She as in her 90s when she died though.  

[gonzosgirrl]

My mom was diabetic and suffered TIAs, which lead to her dementia. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[debraran]

That is a good possibility of some type of brain tumor.  I wish the whole show wasn't watching her wander, you can drive the point home with less filler of that.

I must say watching it now, I loved how Nicky said Jack erased him. I said that back when it happened and you have to call it what it was to start to heal.

I knew the song would be a big part of it after googling the lyrics.

Edited November 20, 2019 by debraran

[statsgirl]

On 10/30/2019 at 7:37 PM, Dani-Ellie said:

If I remember correctly, the reasoning was that the character of House wouldn't have taken the character of Cameron seriously as a blonde, hence the dye job. (Which, if you've seen House, is not outside the realm of possibility.) She was also a 23-year-old actress playing a doctor in her early 30s. At one of the fan events I attended, Jen mentioned that going by Cameron's CV, the year Cameron graduated medical school was the year Jennifer Morrison got out of junior high.

If I'm remembering it correctly, Jennifer Morrison auditioned for House submitting tapes of her as both a blonde and a brunette from two different roles. The EP thought it was two different actresses and wanted them both to audition.  My guess is that they went with the brunette hair because in the first 2 1/2 seasons her character was a love interest for House, played by Hugh Laurie who was 20 years older and looked every year of it and as a blonde she looked even younger. In the summer after season 3 she went back to blonde for a role and the producers told her to keep it in season 4, presumably to differentiate her from Olivia Wilde whose character took over Cameron's slot.

Morrison is a gorgeous woman in real life and I admire her for dying her hair a drab brown and going without makeup at an age (40) where most actresses glam themselves up to show they can still play young because it's better for the role to look battle-worn.

[nlkm9]

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

If I'm remembering it correctly, Jennifer Morrison auditioned for House submitting tapes of her as both a blonde and a brunette from two different roles. The EP thought it was two different actresses and wanted them both to audition.  My guess is that they went with the brunette hair because in the first 2 1/2 seasons her character was a love interest for House, played by Hugh Laurie who was 20 years older and looked every year of it and as a blonde she looked even younger. In the summer after season 3 she went back to blonde for a role and the producers told her to keep it in season 4, presumably to differentiate her from Olivia Wilde whose character took over Cameron's slot.

Morrison is a gorgeous woman in real life and I admire her for dying her hair a drab brown and going without makeup at an age (40) where most actresses glam themselves up to show they can still play young because it's better for the role to look battle-worn.

funny how in first episode she had deep lines and wrinkles and looked tattered, and by last episode she was in full makeup and looked 100% different--almost like saying Kevin couldhvt have possibly liked her in her original natural self. I agree she is very attractive, but they tried to make her look very unattractive in the first few episodes and then all of a sudden at the gym she looked so different.

[LibertarianSlut]

Now that Toby's being written as a Cross-fit fanatic, shouldn't he be...thinner?  Most of these die-hards get gaunt in the face, even if their bodies are quite muscular. Toby doesn't present anything like that to me.  They should have had the actor drop more weight.  Hey, if Mcconaughey could slim down that much for The Dallas Buyer's Club, why not?  It would sell the distance Kate is feeling a lot more if Toby looked the part of complete Cross-Fit maniac. 

[Kirkydee]

3 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Now that Toby's being written as a Cross-fit fanatic, shouldn't he be...thinner?  Most of these die-hards get gaunt in the face, even if their bodies are quite muscular. Toby doesn't present anything like that to me.  They should have had the actor drop more weight.  Hey, if Mcconaughey could slim down that much for The Dallas Buyer's Club, why not?  It would sell the distance Kate is feeling a lot more if Toby looked the part of complete Cross-Fit maniac. 

Didn't Kate ask him how much weight he lost when he finally took his shirt off in front of Kate? Wasnt it 50lbs? Toby may not be 'ripped'.  I'd call him svelte.  It's only been a few months and Toby was by definition morbidly obese.  I'd say he's made great strides

[LibertarianSlut]

I agree that when Toby initially took his shirt off, he looked like he made great strides from morbid obesity. 

Wasn't that awhile ago though?  

Once you're at the point where you're brining your own food to Thanksgiving, you're in the zone (I've basically been there, but I draw the line at nut cheese).  If he's taking this as a religion,  I would expect steady positive results, not for him to look the way he did at the initial reveal. 

I believe in method acting.  Why not just have the actor do the workout and eat the diet of a cross-fitter while filming?  I guarantee he wouldn't still look like this:

He'd probably look more like...

(the gaunt look in the face in the after picture is what Toby doesn't have, which is what inspired me to write my first post that I'm not quite buying what Toby is selling).  

Again, if Toby started looking thin, not just not fat, I as a viewer would have that visual punch in the face and I'd be like, "wow, Kate has nothing in common with her husband anymore," which is what I think the show is going for, which is why I think the actor playing Toby should have been pushed to do more work, not for the initial reveal, but now that the story has taken us to full-blown obession.

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Once you're at the point where you're brining your own food to Thanksgiving, you're in the zone (I've basically been there, but I draw the line at nut cheese).

The thing about nut cheese is that it has more calories per ounce than full-fat dairy cheese, and less protein. It's not a "diet food" in any way, it's just a plant-based alternative for people who can't or won't eat dairy. Toby did also mention tempeh, so it sounds like he may be eating 100% plant-based and taking it to the extreme. FWIW, I eat mostly plant-based as well, but I don't travel with coolers of specially prepared food, and in general I avoid processed food like tempeh or tofu. You can find a healthy meal almost anywhere if you keep it simple, and I'm sure there were enough staples at Randall and Beth's house for Toby to throw together a simple meal like a baked sweet potato with some canned black beans and mashed avocado.

2 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

(the gaunt look in the face in the after picture is what Toby doesn't have, which is what inspired me to write my first post that I'm not quite buying what Toby is selling).

The gaunt look comes from dehydration. People who pose for that kind of picture tend to eat extremely low-carb and take diuretics for days/weeks beforehand to achieve that look. Plus if Toby is eating a lot of nut cheese and other pseudo-healthy foods, his calorie intake is still very high. Weight loss is 90% dependent on diet. (One of the reasons I don't do CrossFit or other extreme forms of exercise is that they make me ravenous and I end up undoing any results by overeating. It works much better for me do 30-45 minutes of moderate exercise like Pilates or barre, which makes me less hungry and more mindful, thus leading to better food choices.)

Edited November 29, 2019 by chocolatine

[JudyObscure]

7 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Again, if Toby started looking thin, not just not fat, I as a viewer would have that visual punch in the face and I'd be like, "wow, Kate has nothing in common with her husband anymore," which is what I think the show is going for,

I think Toby and Kate have a lot in common.  They share a history together, a similar sense of humor, and a love of big dramatic moments. The entire Pearson family has become part of Toby's life as well as Kate's, and most of all they share a child who is the single most important thing in both their lives.  All those things are so much more important than whether or not they have the same percentage of body fat. 

I doubt if Toby will ever look like that picture.  He will probably have some loose skin that will blur the outlines a little. 

5 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Weight loss is 90% dependent on diet. (One of the reasons I don't do CrossFit or other extreme forms of exercise is that they make me ravenous and I end up undoing any results by overeating. It works much better for me do 30-45 minutes of moderate exercise like Pilates or barre, which makes me less hungry and more mindful, thus leading to better food choices.)

That's such good advice.  Over doing it always causes me to stop losing because the stress of pushing myself too much makes me build up fluid. I maintained 110 lbs for about 20 years just with a daily routine at home of 20 minutes slow jump rope followed by ten minutes of calisthenics. I liked to get it done before getting ready for work.

I know it's all fiction, but I keep worrying about Toby's heart.

[LibertarianSlut]

Ok, I'm going to take one last sally at giving my unpopular opinion, noting everyone's objections to his physical state and responding:

I think that now that the writers have decided to go from one place "Toby had a heart attack and he's dieting and exercising to be healthy" to "obsession that is so encompassing that it could break up his marriage," Toby should look thinner/slimmer/leaner than he did at the initial reveal.

This is a visual example of what I'm talking about:

That's a picture of Jordan Peterson, psychologist, biologist, author and lecturer, and he's not dehydrating in this picture.  He always looks like this.  I watch his lectures online and he drinks water throughout them all.

He lost just about 50 lbs by only eating steak.  

This is the type of "gaunt" look I would like to see from Toby if this is his storyline. Not that Toby has even been as fat as the show wants us to think--it's common knowledge he was wearing a fat suit--but I have seen many people who begin to look gaunt in the face at 200 and even 300 lbs if they used to weigh 600 (source:  My 600-lb Life), so maybe, ironically, it's hard for him to achieve that look because he was never as heavy as his character.  Maybe the actor would have to dehydrate to do his scenes, if that's what it took.  That's a whole other discussion I'd be willing to have.

 Al Roker had the same thing going on when he got gastric bypass surgery in '03--from his face, you'd think "this guy has to eat a sandwich, stat," but his body wasn't at all underweight. 

This is the major thrust of my point:  it would serve the storyline if Toby had managed to lose a significant amount of weight from the time of the reveal to the present and beyond. I think they should have had the actor work out super hard and eat super clean to the point where his physcial appearance is jarring.  

If the actor couldn't or didn't want to work that hard, the way Chrissy wouldn't/couldn't/didn't, then the story should go in a different direction--maybe Toby was lying about the gym and spending a lot of his time at the movies--which poses an entire new set of problems.  

He just doesn't present to me as a gym rat who has highly regimented eating.  He looks like a guy who takes decent care of himself, which isn't the storyline.  That's my unpopular opinion.

[chocolatine]

41 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

That's a picture of Jordan Peterson, psychologist, biologist, author and lecturer, and he's not dehydrating in this picture.  He always looks like this.  I watch his lectures online and he drinks water throughout them all.

He lost just about 50 lbs by only eating steak.  

Eating only steak is extremely unhealthy. There are thousands of studies that have shown that eating excessive amounts of red meat (and animal products in general) is harmful (and that the healthiest populations on the planet eat plant-centric diets). I wouldn't listen to anything this guy says, no matter what credentials he claims to have.

46 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

This is the major thrust of my point:  it would serve the storyline if Toby had managed to lose a significant amount of weight from the time of the reveal to the present and beyond. I think they should have had the actor work out super hard and eat super clean to the point where his physcial appearance is jarring.  

But Toby's diet is not conducive to extreme weight loss, so it wouldn't make sense for him to suddenly be lean and gaunt. It sounds like he's eating plant-based and high-calorie, so his rate of weight loss is much slower than if he only ate steak like that idiot Jordan Peterson. The goal of a (whole food) plant-based diet is not to lose large amounts of weight, it's to achieve and maintain optimal health. While people who start out overweight do lose weight, they still get all the essential nutrients and sufficient calories, thus avoiding the gaunt look.

[LibertarianSlut]

22 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Eating only steak is extremely unhealthy. There are thousands of studies that have shown that eating excessive amounts of red meat (and animal products in general) is harmful (and that the healthiest populations on the planet eat plant-centric diets). I wouldn't listen to anything this guy says, no matter what credentials he claims to have.

I didn't posit that Jordan Peterson was smart for only eating steak; I'm not commenting on it.  My point in posting Jordan Peterson's picture was to demonstrate that one can definitely achieve the gaunt look without dehydrating, which is what two people posted in response to the original Cross-Fit picture I posted.  People said, "that guy is guant from dehydrating," so I said, "ok, here is a picture of a guy who is gaunt and not dehydrated." 

25 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

But Toby's diet is not conducive to extreme weight loss

From where did you gather that Toby's diet isn't for extreme weight loss?  Because he mentioned loving nut cheese?  I loved chocolate and doughnuts when I dieted down below 110 lbs; didn't mean I was eating them on the regular.

Because he had tempeh?  I just found a tempeh recipe online for 160 calories.

What is inarguable, what has been established on the show, is that Toby is die-hard Cross-Fit.  I looked up Cross-Fit diet for weight loss on the Internet, and it stresses not to eat gluten, sugar, legumes, fructose, or starchy vegetables.  What it recommends is high-quality protein and non-starchy vegetables.  

Anyone can get thin quickly if they follow the above, and there's no indication he's not following it.

------------------------------------------

There are a million reasons why Toby might not have a gaunt facial look if he's following this program.  Perphaps he's following a Cross-Fit diet for weight gain for some reason.  Perhaps he has a face that carries a disproportionate amount of  of fat in it, maybe he's constantly being stung by bees and his face is always swollen, etc.  What I am saying is that it would be far likelier than not that if Toby had initially revealed a 50-lb weight loss (true) and he continued to follow his routine completely (which is the storyline), there would be advanced indications of weight loss.  He wouldn't have stalled out at 50 lbs, and I think the story would be told better and the show would be better if those continuing results would be visible to the viewer.  

I can't think of another way to say it.  It's very obvious to me.  If people want to advance alternative theories, that's what we're here for, but if goal posts are going to be moved on me and I'm going to show a picture of Jordan Peterson specifically to debunk the "dehydration" myth, only to be told that Jordan Peterson is stupid for eating steak, then...I can't argue that type of logic.  Agree to disagree.

[chocolatine]

28 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I didn't posit that Jordan Peterson was smart for only eating steak; I'm not commenting on it.  My point in posting Jordan Peterson's picture was to demonstrate that one can definitely achieve the gaunt look without dehydrating, which is what two people posted in response to the original Cross-Fit picture I posted.  People said, "that guy is guant from dehydrating," so I said, "ok, here is a picture of a guy who is gaunt and not dehydrated." 

Dehydration is a well-documented side effect of extremely low-carb diets. It doesn't get any lower-carb than eating only steak, so he very likely *is* dehydrated. He's also missing out on may essential nutrients due to not eating fruit and vegetables, which contributes to the gauntness.

28 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

What is inarguable, what has been established on the show, is that Toby is die-hard Cross-Fit.  I looked up Cross-Fit diet for weight loss on the Internet, and it stresses not to eat gluten, sugar, legumes, fructose, or starchy vegetables.  What it recommends is high-quality protein and non-starchy vegetables.  

Tempeh is made from soy, which is a legume, and if Toby travels with it, it means he eats it on a regular basis, therefore he doesn't adhere to the typical CrossFit diet. It seems like you're making assumptions about his diet based on his chosen form of exercise, but that doesn't square with what we've been shown.

Edited November 30, 2019 by chocolatine

[Crs97]

My UO-I think I like Miguel more than I like Jack.  I really need the backstory on how Rebecca and Miguel ended up together, and I am heartbroken for him that she is about to struggle mentally.  Miguel deserves an apology from the big three and an acknowledgement that he has been great for Rebecca.

[LibertarianSlut]

@chocolatine, I am going to reply in the Small Talk thread, but I just wanted to say I didn't know there was a link between meat diets and dehydration, which is why I thought you were moving goal posts.  

I know I don't always get to make the points I want to make exactly how I want to make them, because this is a message board, not a thesis, so...friends?

[PRgal]

100 g of tempeh has more calories than 100 of skinless chicken breast, so Toby's probably more about eating clean than rapid weight loss through both diet and exercise.  I wonder if we're heading to a storyline of male eating disorders.

[alexvillage]

On 11/17/2019 at 2:55 PM, Ohmo said:

I'm troubled by continually asking a 12-13 year-old to play such scenes because those scenes have undertones to them that the actress might not be emotionally equipped to deal with or may cause her to have negative thoughts about her own body.

Welcome to Hollywood!

I don't know the actress or what type of support she might have to play the part and deal with the repercussions in real life but the little and big damages caused in children who are in the TV/movie is well known

[PRgal]

Something just occurred to me.  Is it possible that Kevin's fiance is pregnant with a child that ISN'T Kevin's?  The writers, after all, love to throw curveballs.  

[ClareWalks]

I don't know how popular this opinion will be, but at the end of the episode when they showed the preview for next week with "what if Jack had survived?" I yelled out "JESUS FUCKING CHRIST" alone in my living room. I am over the Jack Worship at this point.

[Rachel RSL]

I am not over the Jack worship because I still love him and Milo but I will say that I'm not looking forward to a "what if" episode at all.  Fantasy and dream sequences in tv and movies always irritate me because it just feels like a waste of time.  I don't want to watch a bunch of stuff that didn't happen and never will happen.  I suppose a lot of fans want to see Jack interact with the adult Pearsons but it just seems pointless to me.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

2 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I don't know how popular this opinion will be, but at the end of the episode when they showed the preview for next week with "what if Jack had survived?" I yelled out "JESUS FUCKING CHRIST" alone in my living room. I am over the Jack Worship at this point.

 

2 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I am not over the Jack worship because I still love him and Milo but I will say that I'm not looking forward to a "what if" episode at all. 

I would like the "what if Jack lived" timeline if it were dark. Rebecca gets sick of Jack's jealousy, possessiveness, insecurity, taking charge of every situation; even when she knows more about something, like the subways in NYC, and choosing places to live without her input, so she leaves him. She still ends up with Miguel. This of course pisses off Jack but is completely fair because Rebecca and Miguel don't get together until after she and Jack divorce. Jack ends up a bitter, divorced, drunk man with a beer gut. Rebecca joins a band so she gets to sing and even travel from time to time. She visits the Met every year and contemplates her painting as long as she wishes.

Randall goes to Howard, never meets Beth and can never find another woman to put up with him. He jumps from relationship to relationship never lasting more than 6 months. Annie and Tess are never born. Deja stays with her biological mother and has a fairly rough childhood but ends up going to college on a math scholarship and turns out fine.

Kevin ends up an out of work actor but stays with Sophie and they have 3 children. He settles for being a teacher and runs the school theater program.

Kate avoids her abusive relationship with Marc but never meets Toby or Madison so ends up child-free and friendless. Because her dog ended up dying in the fire and she feels guilty about it she becomes a trainer for guide dogs for blind people. She has 5 of her own dogs at home. She visits Jack every week and they watch football together.

[qtpye]

19 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

 

I would like the "what if Jack lived" timeline if it were dark. Rebecca gets sick of Jack's jealousy, possessiveness, insecurity, taking charge of every situation; even when she knows more about something, like the subways in NYC, and choosing places to live without her input, so she leaves him. She still ends up with Miguel. This of course pisses off Jack but is completely fair because Rebecca and Miguel don't get together until after she and Jack divorce. Jack ends up a bitter, divorced, drunk man with a beer gut. Rebecca joins a band so she gets to sing and even travel from time to time. She visits the Met every year and contemplates her painting as long as she wishes.

Randall goes to Howard, never meets Beth and can never find another woman to put up with him. He jumps from relationship to relationship never lasting more than 6 months. Annie and Tess are never born. Deja stays with her biological mother and has a fairly rough childhood but ends up going to college on a math scholarship and turns out fine.

Kevin ends up an out of work actor but stays with Sophie and they have 3 children. He settles for being a teacher and runs the school theater program.

Kate avoids her abusive relationship with Marc but never meets Toby or Madison so ends up child-free and friendless. Because her dog ended up dying in the fire and she feels guilty about it she becomes a trainer for guide dogs for blind people. She has 5 of her own dogs at home. She visits Jack every week and they watch football together.

Kevin gets depressed when he finds out all the girls( and some guys)in his class are there because they are crushing on him hard and not because that have any love for acting.

18 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

Ohhh darkness, I like it... 

A rock band move in next door to the Pearsons, this would be the late 70's, early 80's cue metal guitars and hair. Rebecca is shocked by how much she digs their sound, but where are the vocals? She is invited over and sings with them for fun. Her cutesy voice contrasts the loud guitars well. 

Kate becomes pissed off because again Mom is hotter than she is, cue KFC rampage. 

Rebecca transforms, by day wholesome mom, by night, rock chick. This leads to gigs in dives and rough bars. She enjoys the attention. 

Jack is confused but still depressed about having nearly left his family fatherless over a bloody dog. The dog is killed a few days after his rescue when Randall, too obsessed with his political essay leaves the door ajar and the dog runs out onto the road being squished. 

Kate becomes depressed about dead dog, cue McDonald's rampage. 

Kevin supports his mom's desire to be rock chick and the benefits of being allowed into places to bang rock chicks. 

 

Rebecca leaves hum drum Jack and has a passionate affair with a member of Motley Crue.

My unpopular opinion is that Jack’s middle age dad pants make his hips look weirdly large.

[Kirkydee]

On 3/11/2020 at 2:40 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

 

I would like the "what if Jack lived" timeline if it were dark. Rebecca gets sick of Jack's jealousy, possessiveness, insecurity, taking charge of every situation; even when she knows more about something, like the subways in NYC, and choosing places to live without her input, so she leaves him. She still ends up with Miguel. This of course pisses off Jack but is completely fair because Rebecca and Miguel don't get together until after she and Jack divorce. Jack ends up a bitter, divorced, drunk man with a beer gut. Rebecca joins a band so she gets to sing and even travel from time to time. She visits the Met every year and contemplates her painting as long as she wishes.

Randall goes to Howard, never meets Beth and can never find another woman to put up with him. He jumps from relationship to relationship never lasting more than 6 months. Annie and Tess are never born. Deja stays with her biological mother and has a fairly rough childhood but ends up going to college on a math scholarship and turns out fine.

Kevin ends up an out of work actor but stays with Sophie and they have 3 children. He settles for being a teacher and runs the school theater program.

Kate avoids her abusive relationship with Marc but never meets Toby or Madison so ends up child-free and friendless. Because her dog ended up dying in the fire and she feels guilty about it she becomes a trainer for guide dogs for blind people. She has 5 of her own dogs at home. She visits Jack every week and they watch football together.

I love all of this expect Kevin being a teacher.  Kevin doesnt have 1 credit hour from a university and I dont see future Kevin going to college. I'll say hes either in commercials or the racist cop in rap videos. 

[SnarkySheep]

On 3/11/2020 at 11:58 AM, Rachel RSL said:

I am not over the Jack worship because I still love him and Milo but I will say that I'm not looking forward to a "what if" episode at all.  Fantasy and dream sequences in tv and movies always irritate me because it just feels like a waste of time.  I don't want to watch a bunch of stuff that didn't happen and never will happen.  I suppose a lot of fans want to see Jack interact with the adult Pearsons but it just seems pointless to me.

Agreed. IMO it is as pointless as if Randall wondered what would have happened if the third Pearson triplet had survived - we know that the Pearsons would probably not have adopted him. But because Randall is centered on his identity as a Pearson, that thought has likely never even entered his mind. And, realistically, a TV show is about what actually is. Unless you're watching The Twilight Zone, nobody wants to see what might be, just what is. The Pearsons, annoying as they often are, have very specific issues and situations. Isn't that enough?

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, SnarkySheep said:

But because Randall is centered on his identity as a Pearson, that thought has likely never even entered his mind.

Even if it did, I don't know where you would go from there in order to wonder.  He would have been adopted by some completely random couple. OK, they probably would have been black. But, how do you get anything more specific than that?

[SnarkySheep]

On 3/16/2020 at 6:27 PM, Katy M said:

Even if it did, I don't know where you would go from there in order to wonder.  He would have been adopted by some completely random couple. OK, they probably would have been black. But, how do you get anything more specific than that?

It's just speculation...IMO, no different than speculating on what their lives would be if Jack had lived. That's why I'm not crazy about the show doing it, overall.

[CleoCaesar]

The only "what if" episode that would really pique my interest is a scenario where the Pearsons never adopted Randall. Their lives would likely have been so much better.

Rebecca's gross favoritism never would have shown itself. Kevin wouldn't have been ignored and developed a desperate need for attention. Jack wouldn't have fawned over his favorite son. No endless conflict with Randall's adoptee identity issues. Rebecca wouldn't be constantly manipulated by her turd of a son. Two kids are cheaper and easier to raise than three, especially when they're conflict between the three. Not to mention, butterfly effect and all, they wouldn't have lived in that house, ergo no fire, no Jack dying prematurely.

Randall is and always was a whiny, high-maintenance, arrogant little shit. His presence really brought nothing objectively good to the Pearsons, just drama and crises from childhood through the present day. Ugh I hate him.

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

Randall is and always was a whiny, high-maintenance, arrogant little shit. His presence really brought nothing objectively good to the Pearsons, just drama and crises from childhood through the present day. Ugh I hate him.

And if Randall had been adopted by people who weren't constantly trying to overcompensate he might have ended up a bit different (in a better way) also.  It's impossible to know how much of his anxiety issues are environmental as opposed to biological (or nurture versus nature), so he may very well still have those issues, but he may have learned different ways of dealing.  At the very least, he would have had the speechifying drilled into him from an early age, and I feel that of the Big 3, he does it the most and the most annoyingly.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, CleoCaesar said:

Not to mention, butterfly effect and all, they wouldn't have lived in that house, ergo no fire, no Jack dying prematurely.

Jack sprang that house on Rebecca when she was pregnant with triplets, so they would have lived there either way.

[kili]

Quote

Jack sprang that house on Rebecca when she was pregnant with triplets, so they would have lived there either way.

But they may have moved and/or bought a new crock pot by the time of the fire if they hadn't been paying so much money for Randall's private school and golf lessons. Plus, Jack put off starting his own company because he couldn't take the risk due to Randall's private school costs. They would probably be living in a new building Jack built following the latest building codes.

Or they could have wasted all their money as some people do and still be living in the same house with a 40 year old crockpot.

[blondiec0332]

18 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

The only "what if" episode that would really pique my interest is a scenario where the Pearsons never adopted Randall. Their lives would likely have been so much better.

I agree but the they would never show the Pearson's being better off. Worse off?  Absolutely.  But it would depend on the person's point of view. Randall obviously would think the family would have been lost without him but Kevin on the other hand might think things would have been better.

 

18 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Not to mention, butterfly effect and all, they wouldn't have lived in that house, ergo no fire, no Jack dying prematurely.

There are any number of scenarios that could save Jack from the fire.  Maybe they wouldn't have gotten that dog. Maybe Kevin wouldn't have broken his leg and been home that night and saw the fire early.

18 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Kevin wouldn't have been ignored and developed a desperate need for attention

I do think if Randall hadn't been part of the family it would have changed things for Kevin the most.  

18 hours ago, Katy M said:

And if Randall had been adopted by people who weren't constantly trying to overcompensate he might have ended up a bit different (in a better way) also.  It's impossible to know how much of his anxiety issues are environmental as opposed to biological (or nurture versus nature), so he may very well still have those issues, but he may have learned different ways of dealing. 

A lot of that would have depended on how he saw the people around him dealing with things.  He grew up watching Jack treat Rebecca like she was a china doll that needed constant care and supervision.   If he had grown up watching a more healthy dynamic between his family members he might have turned out differently.

18 hours ago, Katy M said:

At the very least, he would have had the speechifying drilled into him from an early age, and I feel that of the Big 3, he does it the most and the most annoyingly.

Kevin's speeches don't bother me and a lot of that has to do with Justin Hartley.  He just seems so charming that I can totally buy people saying okay to whatever he is speechifying about.  But I can't stand when Randall does it. Kate doesn't bother me one way or the other.

[qtpye]

My unpopular opinion is that this show has issues with writing friendships, with maybe the exception of Jack and Miguel.

None of the Big Three seem to have friends outside of their families even though Kevin was and is an incredibly popular guy. Kevon now has Nicky but the thing with the ptsd vet just turned into another failed relationship.

I find the friendship between Madison and Kate very cloying and odd.

Madison: "Kate, you are the most wonderful most beautiful amazing person in the world!"

Kate: "Okay."

Madison: "Whats wrong?" "Did some girl look at Toby...I will personally go and kill her!"

Kate: "Nope."

Madison: "I am so lucky to have you in my life!"

I mean why the Hell is Madison so enamored of Kate? Why is she always gushing about how wonderful Kate is? Madison has not even known Kate for very long.

Also, the gushing is so one sided and unrealistic.

 

[Diana Berry]

On 3/19/2020 at 2:27 PM, CleoCaesar said:

The only "what if" episode that would really pique my interest is a scenario where the Pearsons never adopted Randall. Their lives would likely have been so much better.

I totally thought about your quote when seeing the fight today.  You called it.

[JudyObscure]

On 3/23/2020 at 11:40 AM, qtpye said:

My unpopular opinion is that this show has issues with writing friendships, with maybe the exception of Jack and Miguel.

I agree and would include Jack and Miguel.  I think it's one thing for Miguel to check in on Rebecca from time to time to make sure his friend's family wasn't in desperate need,  but Miguel went way above and  beyond in that area.  One unappreciative remark from those kids and I think most men would have let them fix their own appliances after that.

[Crs97]

Have we seen an incident of Jack doing something for Miguel?  Miguel let him borrow a suit coat, saved his job, counseled him to stop ignoring his wife, helped out after his death . . .  What exactly has Jack done for Miguel (that I am not remembering)?

[gonzosgirrl]

56 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Have we seen an incident of Jack doing something for Miguel?  Miguel let him borrow a suit coat, saved his job, counseled him to stop ignoring his wife, helped out after his death . . .  What exactly has Jack done for Miguel (that I am not remembering)?

I feel like Jack helped Miguel when he split up with his wife? Honestly though, I'm not clear on that. o_O

[Dreamboat Annie]

I like Madison.  There.  I said it.  I'm grateful for an unpopular opinions thread.  I don't feel she deserves the hate she gets.  Full disclosure, when we were first introduced to her, I couldn't stand her.  She was incredibly annoying to me, being in a support group where I felt she didn't belong.  Those people were struggling, really struggling, and here was this gorgeous, thin blonde acting as though she had the same problems they did.  In time we learned that she did have a legitimate eating disorder and was trying to come to terms with it and deal with it as best she could just like everyone else.  

She became a very, very good friend to Kate.  One that Kate did not deserve at the time.  But Kate obviously grew to like her very much in return and appreciate her and her friendship.  She was very nice and kind and supportive of the family while in the hospital waiting room.  I understand that is a very stressful time, but they weren't even gracious, and Kevin was an asshole to her.  She just took it and did what she wanted to do for Kate (and for them) instead of letting them decide for her that she shouldn't be there.  I find that commendable because I would have left.

It was not her doing alone that she got knocked up by Kevin.  She did the right thing by telling him, considering she was not seeking his involvement or his money.  And from what I've seen (and yes, I know I'm being manipulated by this show but it's what this show does!) I think Kevin and Madison would be great together.  There have been some moments that looked like they were falling for each other, but not recently.    Now they have her nagging and needy, and she was not that before. 

I don't like when shows blatantly cave to fans when that was not the plan (think Sex and the City with Carrie and Big).  I do like Sophie but not Kevin and Sophie together.  They've been there.  Done that.  Twice.  There was a reason it didn't work out.  Twice.  And even after TWICE, Sophie was grieving the loss of her mother and Kevin was there for her.  She did seem to like the attention she was getting from him, but also seemed fine letting him down to go back into the house without him and back to Grant (?), her fiance.  If they are endgame, and always were, I can live with that!  Who could forget the face of sweet 10 year old Kevin when he said, about Sophie, so earnestly and sincerely "I love her".  

But I find Madison very sweet and have come to like her very much.  Unless I'm missing something.  Am I?  

 

[qtpye]

22 minutes ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

I like Madison.  There.  I said it.  I'm grateful for an unpopular opinions thread.  I don't feel she deserves the hate she gets.  Full disclosure, when we were first introduced to her, I couldn't stand her.  She was incredibly annoying to me, being in a support group where I felt she didn't belong.  Those people were struggling, really struggling, and here was this gorgeous, thin blonde acting as though she had the same problems they did.  In time we learned that she did have a legitimate eating disorder and was trying to come to terms with it and deal with it as best she could just like everyone else.  

She became a very, very good friend to Kate.  One that Kate did not deserve at the time.  But Kate obviously grew to like her very much in return and appreciate her and her friendship.  She was very nice and kind and supportive of the family while in the hospital waiting room.  I understand that is a very stressful time, but they weren't even gracious, and Kevin was an asshole to her.  She just took it and did what she wanted to do for Kate (and for them) instead of letting them decide for her that she shouldn't be there.  I find that commendable because I would have left.

It was not her doing alone that she got knocked up by Kevin.  She did the right thing by telling him, considering she was not seeking his involvement or his money.  And from what I've seen (and yes, I know I'm being manipulated by this show but it's what this show does!) I think Kevin and Madison would be great together.  There have been some moments that looked like they were falling for each other, but not recently.    Now they have her nagging and needy, and she was not that before. 

I don't like when shows blatantly cave to fans when that was not the plan (think Sex and the City with Carrie and Big).  I do like Sophie but not Kevin and Sophie together.  They've been there.  Done that.  Twice.  There was a reason it didn't work out.  Twice.  And even after TWICE, Sophie was grieving the loss of her mother and Kevin was there for her.  She did seem to like the attention she was getting from him, but also seemed fine letting him down to go back into the house without him and back to Grant (?), her fiance.  If they are endgame, and always were, I can live with that!  Who could forget the face of sweet 10 year old Kevin when he said, about Sophie, so earnestly and sincerely "I love her".  

But I find Madison very sweet and have come to like her very much.  Unless I'm missing something.  Am I?  

 

I think one of the problems is that I never bought Madison and Kate's relationship. It was always Madison gushing over how awesome Kate was an Kate looking at her with disdain. I think they shoehorned the creator's wife in as a character and that fault lies with the writers, not the actress.

I actually have no problem with Madison being Kevin's baby mama. 

[debraran]

On 2/6/2021 at 12:11 AM, qtpye said:

I think one of the problems is that I never bought Madison and Kate's relationship. It was always Madison gushing over how awesome Kate was an Kate looking at her with disdain. I think they shoehorned the creator's wife in as a character and that fault lies with the writers, not the actress.

I actually have no problem with Madison being Kevin's baby mama. 

I think some of the hate with Madison is the overused "no birth control"or unreliable birth control even in 2020, in many TV shows. Even when 40 years old (Million L Things) or being bulimic and irregular, you'll get pregnant. The guy is never given the same flak for responsibility but Kevin did sleep around and the show didn't emphasize any BC because it's not sexy. Having a one night stand and then being a "family" might work on TV but now Madison is needy and insecure and Kevin was never her boyfriend. He was apologizing and was going to put it in the past when she wanted to tell him. She's pregnant and hormonal but Kevin is still the fans fav and Madison being producers wife also had put some fans a little off. A bit part fine, but Kevin's wife/girlfriend? I don't care myself about that but Dan had to expect some feedback.

I just don't get the Sophie funeral/ring thing to end their relationship. Without the ring or the visits to Sophie's mom grave to as for a second chance etc fine, but it wasn't for naught. Sophie not wearing the ring but engaged, looking at it while thinking of him, it's all very TIU-like in writing but they hardly every do they do anything for no reason. The actress Alexandra wont say for good reason when and if she'll be back but said she'd like to be. Time will tell. Writers tease Kevin has a long path to the end of the show, Sophie could be back to fulfill his story or not. They did give excuses for the first fails, immaturity and alcoholism but Kevin changed.

It will be interesting to see how they change things. I'm not a big fan of all the extra characters and how Miguel and Rebecca aren't given enough time or even Nicky now.  Watching so disjointed now with Covid filming and weeks off is hard too but I'm glad they are trying.

[qtpye]

8 hours ago, debraran said:

I think some of the hate with Madison is the overused "no birth control"or unreliable birth control even in 2020, in many TV shows. Even when 40 years old (Million L Things) or being bulimic and irregular, you'll get pregnant. The guy is never given the same flak for responsibility but Kevin did sleep around and the show didn't emphasize any BC because it's not sexy. Having a one night stand and then being a "family" might work on TV but now Madison is needy and insecure and Kevin was never her boyfriend. He was apologizing and was going to put it in the past when she wanted to tell him. She's pregnant and hormonal but Kevin is still the fans fav and Madison being producers wife also had put some fans a little off. A bit part fine, but Kevin's wife/girlfriend? I don't care myself about that but Dan had to expect some feedback.

I just don't get the Sophie funeral/ring thing to end their relationship. Without the ring or the visits to Sophie's mom grave to as for a second chance etc fine, but it wasn't for naught. Sophie not wearing the ring but engaged, looking at it while thinking of him, it's all very TIU-like in writing but they hardly every do they do anything for no reason. The actress Alexandra wont say for good reason when and if she'll be back but said she'd like to be. Time will tell. Writers tease Kevin has a long path to the end of the show, Sophie could be back to fulfill his story or not. They did give excuses for the first fails, immaturity and alcoholism but Kevin changed.

It will be interesting to see how they change things. I'm not a big fan of all the extra characters and how Miguel and Rebecca aren't given enough time or even Nicky now.  Watching so disjointed now with Covid filming and weeks off is hard too but I'm glad they are trying.

I think there is an underlying sexist trope that some women trap "rich successful" men with babies.

That is obviously not what happened here but some people will look at this way. The 'whoops, now a baby is coming" storylines that are so often used in pop culture always tend to put most of the blame on the women, even if they do not come right out and say it.

[gonzosgirrl]

Madison was annoying at first because I think she was meant to be annoying. Then she and Kate became friends and her character grew (and grew on me). I don't think she tried to trap Kevin at all, nor do I think he treated her badly. What bugs me about her now is she seems to waffle all over the place with her expectations, and Kevin can't seem to do the right thing in her eyes. I am even wondering if this is all building up to her relapsing in her eating disorder/mental issues and it will have devastating repercussions. I say this because I don't think she and Kevin are end game, and that she's not around in the flash forward to Rebecca's deathbed.

[OlderThanDirt]

I'm deliberately putting this in Unpopular Opinions because I don't want to get into a Fat-Shaming discussion. I've had weight issues most of my adult life.

That said, I find Kate and the music teacher unrealistically out of scale with each other. I think the show has ignored her weight at several significant plot points: after the abusive boyfriend did she gain weight to protect herself from attention, what changed her mind about surgery after Toby's heart attack, wouldn't Toby's weight loss have made her work on postpartum weight loss or at least some counseling to cope, adoption to a person with the potential health issues seems unlikely, and what magical realism qualities protect her from mean comments in her life since the mean girls in middle school?  I am not commenting on the actress herself. I'm just saying that given their casting decision,  the storyline has been unrealistic.  Putting her with Toby at Overeaters Anonymous and having her face hiring resistance in the first season made sense. No mention of having two over achieving brothers and the impact on her self image? Not so much.  I know, it's just entertainment...

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, OlderThanDirt said:

I'm deliberately putting this in Unpopular Opinions because I don't want to get into a Fat-Shaming discussion. I've had weight issues most of my adult life.

That said, I find Kate and the music teacher unrealistically out of scale with each other. I think the show has ignored her weight at several significant plot points: after the abusive boyfriend did she gain weight to protect herself from attention, what changed her mind about surgery after Toby's heart attack, wouldn't Toby's weight loss have made her work on postpartum weight loss or at least some counseling to cope, adoption to a person with the potential health issues seems unlikely, and what magical realism qualities protect her from mean comments in her life since the mean girls in middle school?  I am not commenting on the actress herself. I'm just saying that given their casting decision,  the storyline has been unrealistic.  Putting her with Toby at Overeaters Anonymous and having her face hiring resistance in the first season made sense. No mention of having two over achieving brothers and the impact on her self image? Not so much.  I know, it's just entertainment...

I agree.

I totally understand why they do not want to make every story about her weight but to ignore it completely is ridiculous.

Chrissy is a beautiful woman but she is not just kind of overweight...she is morbidly obese.

I think the writers were humiliated when it was revealed that they cast Chrissy not only for her acting talent but that they were going to have her lose weight so they could go for a startling transformation. I do not know if this was just a rumor or if it has been confirmed.

They have totally overcompensated for that by making her a bit of a Mary Sue.

Writers short change female characters when they do this because they keep telling us that she is awesome without actually showing us anything.

Compare this to how they wrote her brothers who both have been shown to be motivated and successful in different ways since childhood.

To not address the mobility issues she would have in chasing two very young children around or some of the issues she has in life at least once in a while is really annoying.

For instance, can Kate fit behind the steering wheel of a normal car or does it need to be adjusted for her size?

[Empress1]

My UO is that I don't care who Kevin ends up with. I read that the final season will spend a lot of time on that and that's disappointing to me. Maybe he could be single for a while? Focus on rebuilding his career and being a single father to twins?

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

My UO is that I don't care who Kevin ends up with. I read that the final season will spend a lot of time on that and that's disappointing to me. Maybe he could be single for a while? Focus on rebuilding his career and being a single father to twins?

Yes, not everyone has to end up a part of a couple to be happy. I imagine Kevin will make a great father and honestly, that could be more than enough for him.

I imagine he and Madison will co-parent well and he seems to be very happy in the future.

Even though Justin is gorgeous beyond belief, I really have not seen him have chemistry with any of the ladies they paired him with and it really does not matter to me if he never gets married.

Edited May 28, 2021 by qtpye

[debraran]

52 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

My UO is that I don't care who Kevin ends up with. I read that the final season will spend a lot of time on that and that's disappointing to me. Maybe he could be single for a while? Focus on rebuilding his career and being a single father to twins?

Really, re Kevin? I was hoping jumping ahead, we'd just see a couple of flashbacks. Silly me.

Re Kate, also remember she had a affair with a married guy who wasn't respecting her either and another sign of no self esteem. She never had a good relationship before Toby. I thought the neighbor would be a good friend and she might develop an emotional relationship/affair with him but I guess not.

I didn't like that she had an adoption so soon after Jack Jr and he had special needs. I bet some people wanting to adopt were scratching their heads but it is TV. Then they break up by the time Jack is 4 and it's happily ever after with new English guy? He thought fans wouldn't accept him being English. I am like most of my favs are English, that would never be it. Just seemed rushed and I am in minority I didn't like the twist being Kate. We all knew they had issues, Toby was depressed and alone later, but there were SO many more plot twists I would have loved to see. Kate getting married again (how many weddings must we see with Miguel and Rebecca's coming) was not a "scream moment" I was like "That was it?" Much more interested in Kevin's room and clues about him and Nicky's wife.

 
 

Edited May 27, 2021 by debraran

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

Even though Josh is gorgeous beyond belief, I really have not seen him have chemistry with any of the ladies they paired him with and it really does not matter to me if he never gets married.

You mean Justin, the actor?

I liked him with Zoe (who I think is so gorgeous) but I also like that she stuck to her guns about kids - they’re good people who loved each other but are ultimately incompatible. Doesn’t mean their relationship wasn’t meaningful, it just didn’t work. Sophie and Kevin’s Greatest Love of All has run its course* and I never saw chemistry with Madison though I do think they could be good co-parents.

*My other UO is that the show leans too hard into the One Great Love trope.

[debraran]

8 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

You mean Justin, the actor?

I liked him with Zoe (who I think is so gorgeous) but I also like that she stuck to her guns about kids - they’re good people who loved each other but are ultimately incompatible. Doesn’t mean their relationship wasn’t meaningful, it just didn’t work. Sophie and Kevin’s Greatest Love of All has run its course* and I never saw chemistry with Madison though I do think they could be good co-parents.

*My other UO is that the show leans too hard into the One Great Love trope.

What do you think will happen when Sophie or Kevin call the other one? She seemed to be in a jam or needing to reach out to her 30 year old friend. TIU does nothing without a reason. Dan joked maybe she will tell him about a great data plan and then said you know he can't talk about it.

[qtpye]

52 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

You mean Justin, the actor?

I liked him with Zoe (who I think is so gorgeous) but I also like that she stuck to her guns about kids - they’re good people who loved each other but are ultimately incompatible. Doesn’t mean their relationship wasn’t meaningful, it just didn’t work. Sophie and Kevin’s Greatest Love of All has run its course* and I never saw chemistry with Madison though I do think they could be good co-parents.

*My other UO is that the show leans too hard into the One Great Love trope.

Sorry, Justin...went back and fixed it.

I liked Zoe but I also liked that she did not magically want to have kids just to stay with Kevin.

Of course, now Kevin has 2 kids so Zoe is no longer an option.