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Unpopular Opinions Thread

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Too soon? 

Well, I've already hit create topic, so....

A place to air out opinions that may wreak havoc on episode or character threads. 

Mine so far:

  • Can't stand Rebecca or Kate (adult)
  • I have a headache from the emotional anvils, but no tears yet
  • I don't need a twist every show
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I like this show, but I don't LOVE it. I haven't cried once. I think it's cheez whiz. nicely done cheez whiz, sometimes I like cheez whiz, but still. I never meant to watch it, it was the twist all the critics were raving about that got me here. I do feel compelled to stay, tho, even if it's unlikely to ever be my fave show.

I like the twists. i'd be okay if they were every show.

I think Justin Hartley is a better actor than apparently most everyone else does.

I sympathize, empathize and feel for Kate but so far, she mostly bugs me. (the character, not the actor.) Toby---who I didn't care for the first three episodes at all---should run screaming from her. Neurotic and insecure is one thing. Semi-stalking the ex is batshit, or at least, batshit adjacent. She's not a teenager. she's a going on middle aged woman. I only kind of like Toby now cuz she called her on it.

perhaps not unpopular: i'm really worried about William's cat, Clooney. go get the cat!!

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I think Justin Hartley is a better actor than apparently most everyone else does.

On top of that, I think his story line has the best potential for expansion and growth. We saw hints of deeper emotions in Kevin, to the point that when we first met him I thought he had PTSD/Depression. I think, when given the chance, Hartley does both sides-easy-going and lonely/empty-pretty well. IMO, compared to Kate or even Randall, his journey has the most possibilities.

I'm finding something to like about all the stories and I like the ensemble. At this point I don't think cutting any characters would make it better or that any characters story in better or more compelling then the other. Not to say that won't change, but it is too early for me to say," This show would be so much better if they got rid of X,Y, Z."

I know she isn't as warm and cuddly as Jack, but I'm finding Rebecca in some ways to be the way more complex and interesting parent. I really want to know more about her background and what makes her tick.

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3 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I think Justin Hartley is a better actor than apparently most everyone else does.

I think he's just fine (in more ways than one).  For me, the Big Three acting saves the show, as the writing feels all over the place to hit the emotional moments.  

I care not a wit about Jack and Rebecca. Not invested in how he died, when she married Miguel, or their relationship in general. 

While I completely agree that Kate was out of line in the most recent episode, I still don't care for Toby.  For now, I think she's been written into a corner. 

I hated Beth's "Now I feel like a bitch" line from episode 2.  I thought she was well within her right to question William's intentions, especially since Randall wasn't going to.

I've always given Randall the side-eye for bringing a complete stranger to live in their home after meeting him for five minutes.  

William's quite fit for a man with stage 4 stomach cancer and only months (I think?) to live. 

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I am watching for Justin Hartley (Y&R watcher). Love him!! I too think it's overly cheesy. It climaxes and then concludes all in one scene...every scene. They could have just one climax and keep it going for more than one epi...IMO. Don't like that every scene is some drama and it gets resolved in that scene.  But I will watch, because Justin! And some stuff is good. But I agree, not my fave show.

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11 hours ago, GodsBeloved said:

I'm not wow'ed by Randall and Beth. I like them well enough but not anymore than the other characters and their storylines.

I loved them in the first episode, but in the three since then they and William are being written as perfect, as if the writers are afraid to give them a single flaw out of fear of being accused of being racist by one of these pop-up militant groups.  

I think SKB, SKW, and RSJ are all fantastic actors and I see them trying to brings things that apparantly arent in the increasingly shallow script.  

And for the record, it's the same general problem I have with the Connor character on How to Get Away with Murder.  Theyre all "magical [minority]".  

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7 hours ago, Tiger said:

I loved them in the first episode, but in the three since then they and William are being written as perfect, as if the writers are afraid to give them a single flaw out of fear of being accused of being racist by one of these pop-up militant groups.  

I think SKB, SKW, and RSJ are all fantastic actors and I see them trying to brings things that apparantly arent in the increasingly shallow script.  

And for the record, it's the same general problem I have with the Connor character on How to Get Away with Murder.  Theyre all "magical [minority]".  

I don't see William as being "perfect" in any way.  He doesn't really "fit in" with Randall's upper middle class life and is definitely not comfortable by it.  He knows he is out of place and feels that Randall doesn't know what it's like to be "black."  In fact, I'm not sure if he STILL gets it after Randall's speech at the clothing store. 

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7 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I'm an awful person. I don't like Kate. She is just too big.

I mean, Kate certainly has a lot of awful qualities-whiny, self-absorbed, neurotic-and they do relate at least somewhat to her weight. So I guess disliking her because she is "big" isn't too horrible, if it is about her as a whole package.

Edited by HeySandyStrange
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21 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

I'm not feeling William. It's a little too druggie with a heart of gold.

I feel like the show is making him TOO good, which makes me want him to not turn out to be the good guy that they're making him to be. Every time William is developed, I question his motives. He's a drug addict, and I feel like he is still using, or should still be using. He can't just be over his drug addiction, especially with the news of his diagnosis. I'm honestly expecting him to be drugged out at some point this season. 

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1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I feel like the show is making him TOO good, which makes me want him to not turn out to be the good guy that they're making him to be. Every time William is developed, I question his motives. He's a drug addict, and I feel like he is still using, or should still be using. He can't just be over his drug addiction, especially with the news of his diagnosis. I'm honestly expecting him to be drugged out at some point this season. 

Maybe he will, but I don't necessarily expect it.  For him to have reached this age, he must have been off drugs for some time.  I think with addiction to the real hard stuff, life expectancy is 15 to 20 years from when they started, depending on what they use and how frequently.   They don't keep using into old age.  He's got incurable cancer, that may be enough to derail sobriety, or he may stay on the straight and narrow to be able to get to know his son and grandkids before the end.  I don't question his motives, we've already seen him go to Randall's recommended specialist who confirmed there's no treatment that will help.  I can see a person like him, who has kept the bargain to not contact his son though he could have (shows selflessness) and having gotten off drugs, being able to keep it going for a few more months.  I don't think he's too angelic, he is a tragic figure, who sees in front of him, when it is too late, what his life could have included if he had not been messed up on drugs when Randall was born. 

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2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I feel like the show is making him TOO good, which makes me want him to not turn out to be the good guy that they're making him to be. Every time William is developed, I question his motives. He's a drug addict, and I feel like he is still using, or should still be using. He can't just be over his drug addiction, especially with the news of his diagnosis. I'm honestly expecting him to be drugged out at some point this season. 

I like my idea for William better than the writers'... that he's a random grifter.  Too bad that ship has sailed. 

I agree with most of these complaints, even that Kate is too fat.  Obviously I don't hate on anyone for their size but more on casting for giving cherry roles to Gabourey Sidibe and this actress, as if casting someone 250 lbs. overweight (vs. a much more normal level of obese) is even MORE noble and progressive.  Plus it feels a little 'circus freak' (which this actress did play in AHS Freak Show).   

I thought the little girl playing young Kate in the pool scene was doing a really bad job of acting, especially in her Daytona beach scene with Milo.  

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I am not a huge fan of William's.  I think his integration into Beth and Randall's household has been too seemless, too easy.  It should be harder.  I think Beth at least should continue to be more uncomfortable than she is shown to be.  But, that said, I don't mind that he isn't some awful person though.  I think the message that drug addiction doesn't necessarily make you an inherently terrible person is a good one.  Before drugs, the man had an involved  life and  a deeply sensitive soul, what with the poetry and stuff.  But then the drugs came along.  It seems like the show is making the point that his basic personality is one where with or without the drugs, he would have ended up as this nice old guy who is attached to his cat anyhow. 

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33 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Plus it feels a little 'circus freak' (which this actress did play in AHS Freak Show).   

THAT'S where I recognized her from! Thank you!

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I like Randall, Beth, their girls and William as much as the next fan, but honestly...imo they'd make for a pretty boring show if they where the sole focus. Randall may be dealing with his identity and getting to know his dad, but otherwise he is pretty much already there in life. He's got the happy, wonderful marriage, a great career he seems to love, and beautiful children. And, since this is tv, no way would they be able to resist adding drama (midlife crisis, adultery, etc.) if they had to fill an hour about Randall and his family. I'd rather keep them relatively stable and let the twins bring up the neurosis front.

Quote

I like my idea for William better than the writers'... that he's a random grifter.  Too bad that ship has sailed. 

I originally thought that was how it was going to turn out for with William...but I'm very glad now that they didn't go there. It is way too cliché and frankly, uncreative. I think showing the truly tragic consequences of drug abuse and how it can devastate otherwise intelligent, good people is much more effective. I mean, drug addiction gets demonized a lot, so its nice to see that yes, it can happen to good people, but at the end of the day, the person is still good.

Edited by HeySandyStrange
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I like this show I really do, but I also loved Gilmore Girls and Hero's, but had to give up both shows or cut back on them because of the incredible smarmy douchiness of Milo. Sadly he has not improved in my eyes and a good body does not make up for being unlikeable  and so I really hope Jack is Dead or Rebecca divorced him. 

Edited by hcs · Reason: spelling
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14 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

So I guess disliking her because she is "big" isn't too horrible, if it is about her as a whole package.

Everything about her is big. Her reactions, her poor decisions, her whining, all of it.

And yes, some of my dislike is just about her weight. 

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11 hours ago, hcs said:

I like this show I really do, but I also loved Gilmore Girls and Hero's, but had to give up both shows or cut back on them because of the incredible smarmy douchiness of Milo. Sadly he has not improved in my eyes and a good body does not make up for being unlikeable  and so I really hope Jack is Dead or Rebecca divorced him. 

Jack may be dead, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Milo is the lead name in the credits of this show. He isn't going anywhere. The concept of showing the Big Three's past means he will be around as long as the show airs. 

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9 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Everything about her is big. Her reactions, her poor decisions, her whining, all of it.

And yes, some of my dislike is just about her weight. 

Well, to be fair, most humans can't help being shallow now and again. I'm predisposed to dislike Milo aka Jack because of all the years of being told by the majority of the Gilmore Girls fandom that he was the hottest thing in the world. I'm liking Milo here, he's got a nice butt, but he ain't all that.

I'm a little inclined to feel for Kate/her actress about that weight, though....I'm betting if she was skinny/conventionally attractive, disliking her on the basis of her looks wouldn't be an issue...

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I don't find Milo all that attractive.  He's one of those guys who look hot from the neck down, but the face?  Meh. 

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2 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I don't find Milo all that attractive.  He's one of those guys who look hot from the neck down, but the face?  Meh. 

The mustache and hair style aren't doing him any favors, either.

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22 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I feel like the show is making him TOO good, which makes me want him to not turn out to be the good guy that they're making him to be. Every time William is developed, I question his motives. He's a drug addict, and I feel like he is still using, or should still be using. He can't just be over his drug addiction, especially with the news of his diagnosis. I'm honestly expecting him to be drugged out at some point this season. 

I am confused by this comment.  I have known plenty of people in recovery who have gone through worse shit than William and they have stayed sober.  What I do have a problem with on this show is that we haven't seen William have any support other than from his family, no NA group, no sponsor, nothing.  It does happen but it would be a bit more realistic if he had somebody other than his son in his corner.

I like Rebecca a lot more than Jack.

On 10/22/2016 at 8:35 AM, Tiger said:

I loved them in the first episode, but in the three since then they and William are being written as perfect, as if the writers are afraid to give them a single flaw out of fear of being accused of being racist by one of these pop-up militant groups.  

I'm laughing at this because I don't know what the heck it means.  "Pop up militant groups?"  Right.

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21 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I am confused by this comment.  I have known plenty of people in recovery who have gone through worse shit than William and they have stayed sober.  What I do have a problem with on this show is that we haven't seen William have any support other than from his family, no NA group, no sponsor, nothing.  It does happen but it would be a bit more realistic if he had somebody other than his son in his corner.

I like Rebecca a lot more than Jack.

I'm laughing at this because I don't know what the heck it means.  "Pop up militant groups?"  Right.

Pop-up militant groups are temporary storefronts for militants - often in trendy areas.  Bwahahahahahaha!!!!!!! :D

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3 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Pop-up militant groups are temporary storefronts for militants - often in trendy areas.  Bwahahahahahaha!!!!!!! :D

LOL, and after they leave they'll be a Whole Foods or something.

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2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

The mustache and hair style aren't doing him any favors, either.

I think the long hair looks good and he looks good with the full beard or clean shaven as he was on the ABC show about the aliens.  But just the mustache looks terrible.  

 

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

Pop-up militant groups are temporary storefronts for militants - often in trendy areas.  Bwahahahahahaha!!!!!!! :D

Im talking about these groups that scream "racism" at anyone and everything regardless of reality, facts, logic and/or reason.  I'm not saying racism doesnt exist; it does.  But there are definitely people and groups that scream it at anything and everything, and in some cases profit off of that.

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On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 8:05 PM, ribboninthesky1 said:

I've always given Randall the side-eye for bringing a complete stranger to live in their home after meeting him for five minutes.  

I agree, but I felt it gave Randall another layer, so to speak. Like he was so desperate to get to know him that he made a dumb, irrational decision (even if it turns out okay).  From what we've seen of Randall, he has led a pretty structured, disciplined life to achieve that success level.  So it was nice to see a dumb decision.

I like Toby and have from the get go.

I haven't cried yet.

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19 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

I like Randall, Beth, their girls and William as much as the next fan, but honestly...imo they'd make for a pretty boring show if they where the sole focus. Randall may be dealing with his identity and getting to know his dad, but otherwise he is pretty much already there in life. He's got the happy, wonderful marriage, a great career he seems to love, and beautiful children. And, since this is tv, no way would they be able to resist adding drama (midlife crisis, adultery, etc.) if they had to fill an hour about Randall and his family. I'd rather keep them relatively stable and let the twins bring up the neurosis front.

I originally thought that was how it was going to turn out for with William...but I'm very glad now that they didn't go there. It is way too cliché and frankly, uncreative. I think showing the truly tragic consequences of drug abuse and how it can devastate otherwise intelligent, good people is much more effective. I mean, drug addiction gets demonized a lot, so its nice to see that yes, it can happen to good people, but at the end of the day, the person is still good.

I too don't want to see a show about just Randall's family.  Maybe if they had a better story.  I don't think the current one is creative and fresh.  Adopted man find's birth father months before man dies of cancer.  Tears ensue.  I just don't care.  William is not a father to Randall in any way but the most limited definition.  William's drug issues haven't been explored at all.  That might be more interesting.  But where is the current story going?  William will die and the family will be sad.  Maybe the twist will be they adopt his cat.  

I'd be a lot more interested if William wasn't the bio-dad after all, or if William was a CEO or something.  Him being a down-and-out black man who never amounted to much besides a pile of regret over a drug-related adoption in his youth.... that's cliche.  

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23 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Obviously I don't hate on anyone for their size but more on casting for giving cherry roles to Gabourey Sidibe and this actress, as if casting someone 250 lbs. overweight (vs. a much more normal level of obese) is even MORE noble and progressive.  Plus it feels a little 'circus freak' (which this actress did play in AHS Freak Show).   

It could also be the fact that they cast her because she's prettier than the average overweight actress and seems to also be quite talented.

13 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

And yes, some of my dislike is just about her weight. 

Remarks like this is why I believer we don't need to ensure that fat women become complacent about their weight as was suggested in an episode thread.

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27 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I too don't want to see a show about just Randall's family.  Maybe if they had a better story.  I don't think the current one is creative and fresh.  Adopted man find's birth father months before man dies of cancer.  Tears ensue.  I just don't care.  William is not a father to Randall in any way but the most limited definition.  William's drug issues haven't been explored at all.  That might be more interesting.  But where is the current story going?  William will die and the family will be sad.  Maybe the twist will be they adopt his cat.  

I'd be a lot more interested if William wasn't the bio-dad after all, or if William was a CEO or something.  Him being a down-and-out black man who never amounted to much besides a pile of regret over a drug-related adoption in his youth.... that's cliche.  

The fact that they've written William as terminal makes his story self-limiting, so it doesn't matter as much what his life story has been, to me it doesn't need to be that he was a grifter or an uber-successful poet or whatever.  I think whatever connection he makes with Randall and the grandkids being very short-lived is the grist for the dramatic mill.  Randall is going to be having lots of antipathy, I imagine, for Rebecca when he finds out the deal she made.  To me, that will be interesting for awhile, but I don't know how much/for how long, because my possibly unpopular opinion is that Mandy Moore doesn't bliss me out.  Her acting isn't bad, the writing is okay, but she is just too bland for me.

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I won't sympathize with any antipathy Randall has for Rebecca.  To blame the parents that took him in and raised him as their own for choosing a closed adoption would be a shitty thing to do.  Even without the foreknowledge that his birth father had a heroin addiction at the time.  

But I agree they'll go there.  Because it was telegraphed and it'll be one more bit of grist for the drama mill.  And being able to evoke tears seems more important than creating a cohesive, compelling, fresh story.

I don't think William's backstory necessarily *should* be covered, just that I'd prefer any story to the 'junkie with a heart of gold' one they chose.  

I guess we can still hope for a twist, until he's dead.  Maybe they'll come home one day and find the place cleaned out and that'll be the end of William's story.  Instead of grieving William the Great's physical passing Randall can grieve the end of his misconceptions and misplaced trust.  

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On 10/23/2016 at 3:19 PM, Winston9-DT3 said:

I agree with most of these complaints, even that Kate is too fat.  Obviously I don't hate on anyone for their size but more on casting for giving cherry roles to Gabourey Sidibe and this actress, as if casting someone 250 lbs. overweight (vs. a much more normal level of obese) is even MORE noble and progressive.  Plus it feels a little 'circus freak' (which this actress did play in AHS Freak Show).   

I don't know what the casting call was for Kate, but for 'Precious,' there was an open casting call for overweight black women--I don't think it specified that she had to be morbidly obese. She'd never acted before Precious, so I think part of the reason she still works is because of her talent. 

I think that with Kate, perhaps the general public would't sympathize with her if she were only 30, 40, or 50 pounds overweight. "Why is she sooo obsessed with her weight? She's too self absorbed." "If she went to the gym for a few months, it wouldn't be hard to lose the weight." 

--I think the flashbacks show that Kate was genetically predisposed to be overweight. So even if she changes all of her negative lifestyle habits, she is more likely to be obese than the average woman. Not that she is doomed to be obese--but it would be harder for her to achieve normal weight. 

 

23 hours ago, tribeca said:

I like Kevin's story the best.  

I certainly like him more now that I've watched The Pool episode. It explains a lot of his attention-seeking behavior as an adult. But I still consider Kevin a whiny, privileged, self-centered man-boy. But he's damn cute. And I like "Baby say whaaat?

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4 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I won't sympathize with any antipathy Randall has for Rebecca.  To blame the parents that took him in and raised him as their own for choosing a closed adoption would be a shitty thing to do.  Even without the foreknowledge that his birth father had a heroin addiction at the time.  

But I agree they'll go there.  Because it was telegraphed and it'll be one more bit of grist for the drama mill.  And being able to evoke tears seems more important than creating a cohesive, compelling, fresh story.

I don't think William's backstory necessarily *should* be covered, just that I'd prefer any story to the 'junkie with a heart of gold' one they chose.  

I guess we can still hope for a twist, until he's dead.  Maybe they'll come home one day and find the place cleaned out and that'll be the end of William's story.  Instead of grieving William the Great's physical passing Randall can grieve the end of his misconceptions and misplaced trust.  

Replying in the Social Issues thread.

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8 hours ago, romantic idiot said:

if casting someone 250 lbs. overweight (vs. a much more normal level of obese ) is even MORE noble and progressive.  Plus it feels a little 'circus freak

That's why I am not fond of Kate. She is sooo overweight. It would be great if her weight problem was  a bit more realistic. A large portion of Americans are overweight, myself included, I wish that character were more relatable.

Edited by MsJamieDornan · Reason: oops
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8 hours ago, romantic idiot said:

Remarks like this is why I believer we don't need to ensure that fat women become complacent about their weight as was suggested in an episode thread.

This is the Unpopular Opinion thread. So, I gave mine.

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On 10/24/2016 at 11:02 AM, Neurochick said:

I am confused by this comment.  I have known plenty of people in recovery who have gone through worse shit than William and they have stayed sober.  What I do have a problem with on this show is that we haven't seen William have any support other than from his family, no NA group, no sponsor, nothing.  It does happen but it would be a bit more realistic if he had somebody other than his son in his corner.

 

I know I didn't explain myself properly! Sorry about that! It's just in TV Land, they've got me on the edge of my seat, so to speak, when subjects like drug abuse, alcoholism, or other real life subjects come up. TV has made me assume the worst out of pretty much everyone, unfortunately, so I feel like I've been preconditioned to assume that William will go back to drug use at some point. TV shows love drama, and most go for the typical issues, whether or not they are positive or negative (pregnancy, alcoholism, drug use, cancer, etc) and I have found very few shows who actually try something different with the subjects. 

I fully understand that there are people who stay sober and stay clean in real life. I think that's great! But with William, he does seem like he fits too well into Randall's life. For real life situations, I'd find that awesome. As an adopted child myself, that's all I ever want for people like me, that they can find closure and get a good experience out of it. Now, Randall's not totally lucky because William does have cancer, so that's something. But I feel like there might be more tension that they'd want to explore. 

I hope I explained myself better! It's not that I want William to relapse and disappoint his biological son! I mean cancer's already something that they have to deal with. It's just that my years of TV watching have prepared me for more worse events to come up. 

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2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's just that my years of TV watching have prepared me for more worse events to come up. 

Yes, same here! In fact, TV and books have conditioned me to the point where even in real life I never make comments like, "things could not get worse."

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4 minutes ago, J.D. said:

This show needs a gay character.  I'm bored with the straight people.  Sorry, not sorry.  :D

Kevin could hire a gay guy as his new assistant, who will teach him the Ways of the Great White Way!

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On 10/21/2016 at 6:32 PM, HeySandyStrange said:

On top of that, I think his story line has the best potential for expansion and growth. We saw hints of deeper emotions in Kevin, to the point that when we first met him I thought he had PTSD/Depression. I think, when given the chance, Hartley does both sides-easy-going and lonely/empty-pretty well. IMO, compared to Kate or even Randall, his journey has the most possibilities.

I'm finding something to like about all the stories and I like the ensemble. At this point I don't think cutting any characters would make it better or that any characters story in better or more compelling then the other. Not to say that won't change, but it is too early for me to say," This show would be so much better if they got rid of X,Y, Z."

I know she isn't as warm and cuddly as Jack, but I'm finding Rebecca in some ways to be the way more complex and interesting parent. I really want to know more about her background and what makes her tick.

Mandy Moore is doing a great job as Rebecca, I too, want to know what makes her 'tick" and why she is afraid to have children.  And I too like Justin Hartley, he's got an easy charm about him, slightly goofy & he's handsome :)

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Thanks, random chance.  I went to bug reports and as I suspected, those spaces might be ads and since I have an ad blocker, they appear as blank spaces between posts.

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I put this in the last thread, but it's a pretty UO around here so: 

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I don't think Toby is evil or horrible, his boundaries are just different.  People don't always have the same types of boundaries, some are lower than others.  In some homes, people talk while watching TV, in others they don't; neither way is wrong, just not the way YOU might do things.  I don't think Toby gives off a stalkerish vibe or anything sinister, his boundaries are just different.  That doesn't mean Kate should date him though; if someone can't respect your boundaries, that can break a relationship.

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I can't stand Rebecca, either.  After the discussion with William where she accused him of violating their "agreement," I expected to see a scene where they made an agreement.  Instead we got a scene where he asked if he could keep up with his son and she said, "no."  That's not an agreement, but a pronouncement.

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