Unpopular Opinions Thread

[Driad]

11 hours ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

What we ended up with is over-the-top storylines that are clearly trying to get us in the heart (Toby's random Hootie and the Blowfish number in the coffee shop, for example), very obvious storylines that are clearly supposed to be gut wrenching that you see coming from a mile away (Kate's miscarriage).

When Toby did the coffee shop number, I suspected that Kate would have a miscarriage, and afterward someone from the coffee shop would recognize T & K and congratulate them on the baby. 

[luna1122]

On ‎01‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 11:57 AM, laurakaye said:

Possibly a huge unpopular opinion, but I can't believe SKB won a Golden Globe for This is Us.  I'm thrilled that he won, and also at the historical milestone this award created, but IMO his most stellar work came when he portrayed Christopher Darden last year.  I know he won a couple of awards for that performance, but he should've won every single award.  He knocked that portrayal out of the park.  That's why I have such a hard time with him as Randall, because I don't think his acting on This is Us necessarily deserved an award, and I know he is capable of making my heart hurt.  Of course he can only do so much with what he's given, but as Randall, he's very smug and unlikeable.  I'm trying to figure out why the cheesefest that is This is Us won anything.

Agreed. SKB absolutely should have won for his work at Darden, but Randall is a pretty stock character in a pretty mediocre show. Bob Odenkirk was robbed, imo.

[crashdown]

One thing I really dislike about the show is just how much of an emotional sledgehammer they use. I love shows with lots of subtext, shows that really make you work to construct how a given character might be thinking or feeling.  This is Us, on the other hand, is a show in which the characters constantly tell each other explicitly about all of their thoughts and emotions (and, in some cases, a character might even have an extended soliloquy on a football field about those thoughts and emotions!). It's just too much noise and way too obvious--there's none of the reward in noticing the significance of a fleeting glance or a grimace that I value so much in more subtle shows. 

[balmz]

i find the overpraise and hype and shilling for jack very annoying, i already don't like how much of a gary stu he is and the constant talking about him is really annoying, it puts me off him, why the other day on the tiu fb page they said jack would have been great to play jesus christ, i found that just wrong and over the top

[Neurochick]

My UO is that I feel a lot of the Beth hate and Kevin Love has elements of racial unease there. There was even a post as how the actor who plays Kevin hasn’t gotten much recognition for his portrayal of Kevin.  IMO, once again the white male must be front and center and if he’s not, something is wrong.

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

My UO is that I feel a lot of the Beth hate and Kevin Love has elements of racial unease there

Overall, if you surveyed every post on every episode thread, I'm pretty sure you would find that Beth has been a much more popular character than Kevin, who was given lots of flack for his actions with the ladies in the past. The first season there were constant raves from many of us about how beautiful the actress was and how cool her character was. I think this most recent episode with Beth and Kevin at his therapy session is the first episode where Beth was criticized more than Kevin.  If that makes those of us who thought she was being a little harsh to him during this episode, racists in your eyes then so be it.  You're entitled to your opinion but it's going to severely limit our freedom to discuss the show if two of the main characters are off limits for anything other than unqualified praise.

[GSMHvisitor]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

My UO is that I feel a lot of the Beth hate and Kevin Love has elements of racial unease there. There was even a post as how the actor who plays Kevin hasn’t gotten much recognition for his portrayal of Kevin.  IMO, once again the white male must be front and center and if he’s not, something is wrong.

I think nobody would say anything, if it wasn't literally the entire Pearson clan (in-laws not included) who got their award nominations at this point. Milo, Mandy, Sterling, Chrissy - they all got the recognition, except for Justin Hartley. I can't help but find that a little disappointing too.

As for Beth, I still think she's awesome. She's definitely one of my favs. I just wish they'd give her more than just the snark and the sass and the attitude. Last season that seemed much more balanced IMO.

[luna1122]

I like Beth and think she's great looking, and funny, but I do find her to often be kind of a bitch. But I think Kate and Rebecca can be too, especially Kate, and that, in fact, none of these folks are really people i'd wanna hang out with. Kevin is just easily charming, so seems more likable on the surface, even tho he's really kind of...not.

My UO is that I actually did like this last episode.

[Crs97]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

There was even a post as how the actor who plays Kevin hasn’t gotten much recognition for his portrayal of Kevin.  IMO, once again the white male must be front and center and if he’s not, something is wrong.

I don’t think anyone was ever saying Justin should be praised over Sterling.  Hasn’t everyone been pretty much of one accord that Sterling is one of the best actors on the show?  How is saying Justin has been knocking it out of the park lately slighting Sterling?  

I think there has been such a missed opportunity for Beth.  I want to know more about her childhood and family.  IIRC, she talked to William about growing up dirt-poor.  How did she get to where she is now?  How did her family react when she brought home Randall?  The Pearsons aren’t the only interesting family to be explored here.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, GSMHvisitor said:

As for Beth, I still think she's awesome. She's definitely one of my favs. I just wish they'd give her more than just the snark and the sass and the attitude. Last season that seemed much more balanced IMO.

I totally agreed with this.  Last season she was one of my favorites and this season she's not.  I liked some of her scenes with Deja (though the whole storyline annoyed me enough that I didn't appreciate them as much as I would have otherwise) but overall, I haven't enjoyed her as much.  Which, fine. Give her some storyline or dialogue to explain - is she stressed being the sole breadwinner? Still struggling with the effects of having William pop into their lives and then die?  A couple conversations could make all the difference.

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

My UO is that I feel a lot of the Beth hate and Kevin Love has elements of racial unease there. There was even a post as how the actor who plays Kevin hasn’t gotten much recognition for his portrayal of Kevin.  IMO, once again the white male must be front and center and if he’s not, something is wrong.

I mean, personally, I loved Beth and Randall last season as characters. I even loved Beth many times this season, especially with Deja. One of my favourite scenes this season is Beth's scene with Deja, with her hair. I love when they give Beth more to do...but I do think that I'm not a fan of her when she's passive aggressive and bitchy, much like I don't like Randall when he's being self righteous and condescending, or Kevin when he's being a complete jackass, or Kate when she's being self absorbed. Also, my UO is Jack is my least favourite character because of how the show treats him like some sort of God, even in behind the scenes interviews and stuff. 

But Justin Hartley is the only main actor in the cast to not get any individual recognition, which is mostly where the comments are coming from. Even Gerald McRaney, aka Dr. K, got an award win for being a guest actor. Even Susan Kelechi Watson has gotten nominated for her role. With his work last season, I understand not being nominated. But so far this season, I think it's been well deserved and it hasn't happened. 

On another note, I want to see more of Beth as an individual and I'd love to see the New Big Three's families and personal lives outside of the Pearsons. I'm willing to bet we'll get a Very Special Episode at some point without any of the Pearsons, where it's just Beth, Toby, and/or Miguel (maybe Sophie if she comes back?), but I want it to be more than a Very Special Episode. 

Also, UO, I've actually liked Beth more than Randall at many points this season. Girl's had to deal with a lot regarding her husband. Her and Rebecca would have a lot to bond about. 

[ShadowFacts]

My possibly UO is that I don't care a whit about industry awards.  Those shows were mildly interesting to me years ago, when there was basically only network tv and movies you'd see at the theater.  It has always been about promotion and self-promotion, but it's gone to new levels and these people seem so very insular and self-absorbed that I just can't care.  I will glance at articles after the big awards sometimes, and there is always a surprise or two about who was left out, not even nominated.  There are probably myriad reasons like just a really full field in a particular category, a certain actor's poor reputation, a producer wielding enormous power, etc. etc.  For me, Justin Hartley is not that impressive, he has done a better job in the last few episodes, but maybe that was too late for the nominating processes this year?  If it's a slight, it may be corrected next time around.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

My possibly UO is that I don't care a whit about industry awards.  Those shows were mildly interesting to me years ago, when there was basically only network tv and movies you'd see at the theater.  It has always been about promotion and self-promotion, but it's gone to new levels and these people seem so very insular and self-absorbed that I just can't care.  I will glance at articles after the big awards sometimes, and there is always a surprise or two about who was left out, not even nominated.  There are probably myriad reasons like just a really full field in a particular category, a certain actor's poor reputation, a producer wielding enormous power, etc. etc.  For me, Justin Hartley is not that impressive, he has done a better job in the last few episodes, but maybe that was too late for the nominating processes this year?  If it's a slight, it may be corrected next time around.

Me neither. I used to watch the Emmys (nighttime and daytime) when I was in HS, but I haven't cared about them since at least college.  And, why do these people need awards?  They're already recognized.   If we must have award shows, let's have them for cops and firefighters and scout leaders, teachers, ditch diggers.  The best in the fields of people who aren't recognized and overpaid.  I probably still wouldn't watch, but at least I wouldn't roll my eyes when I see the commercials.

[Aloeonatable]

I watch awards shows, but strictly as entertainment. To me they are simply PR business. They bring eyes to the screens if they win awards. 

[Drumpf1737]

13 hours ago, luna1122 said:

but I do find her to often be kind of a bitch

What makes her a bitch and not snarky?

[mommalib]

16 hours ago, Neurochick said:

My UO is that I feel a lot of the Beth hate and Kevin Love has elements of racial unease there. There was even a post as how the actor who plays Kevin hasn’t gotten much recognition for his portrayal of Kevin.  IMO, once again the white male must be front and center and if he’s not, something is wrong.

Basically. Can't let Sterling shine too bright. I think that's why Kevin's story line annoys me.

15 minutes ago, Drumpf1737 said:

What makes her a bitch and not snarky?

The color of her skin. Actually I find Kate to be pretty bitchy but she won't get treated like Beth does around here.

[HeyThere83]

I don't think Justin should be nominated just because most others have been. I don't understand the nominations for this show, but if Justin were nominated along with Sterling I would be so confused. Justin's performances are not on the same level on this show and in general. I know Dan Fogelman thinks he NEEDS to be in the awards discussion simply because the others have been and he's on his show, but that's not the way it works. There is a strange entitlement issue with this show and some of the people involved with it.

16 hours ago, Neurochick said:

My UO is that I feel a lot of the Beth hate and Kevin Love has elements of racial unease there. There was even a post as how the actor who plays Kevin hasn’t gotten much recognition for his portrayal of Kevin.  IMO, once again the white male must be front and center and if he’s not, something is wrong.

One of the lines from this show that didn't get enough focus was Kevin's to Randall about having to compete with another black man. How is that not addressed?

[luna1122]

9 hours ago, mommalib said:

Basically. Can't let Sterling shine too bright. I think that's why Kevin's story line annoys me.

The color of her skin. Actually I find Kate to be pretty bitchy but she won't get treated like Beth does around here.

No. The color of her skin has nothing to do with why I find anyone bitchy. The writers don't know how to write women on this show without making them bitchy, no matter their skin tone. Kate, Rebecca and Beth are all often bitchy. Then again, they don't know how to write men that aren't assholes (Toby) or self involved drama kings (all the Pearson men, even Sainted Jack).

[MissLucas]

I can't remember much criticism of Beth before this episode. She's one of the most-liked characters on this show. Calling her out on behavior the character herself called passive-aggressive does not make people racist. Whether it's necessary to use the b-word is another story. Kate has been called the b-word with some regularity too.

[Wings]

I didn't  watch the last 2 episodes.  I am done.  I have enjoyed this thread though! I will keep recording until Jack dies. 

Edited January 12, 2018 by Wings

[Blakeston]

I don't have much of a problem with Beth, but I can see why people do.

She clearly sees herself as the put-upon voice of reason, and she has a major self-righteous streak. She isn't the only character on This is Us with a self-righteous streak, of course. But most of the characters get called out sometimes by the other characters on their crappy behavior.

The ones who don't get called out (like Toby, Jack, and Beth) are the ones who tend to inspire a lot of hate. And there's been a lot more hate for Toby and Jack than for Beth.

[TwoGrayTabbies]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I don't have much of a problem with Beth, but I can see why people do.

She clearly sees herself as the put-upon voice of reason, and she has a major self-righteous streak. She isn't the only character on This is Us with a self-righteous streak, of course. But most of the characters get called out sometimes by the other characters on their crappy behavior.

The ones who don't get called out (like Toby, Jack, and Beth) are the ones who tend to inspire a lot of hate. And there's been a lot more hate for Toby and Jack than for Beth.

My problem with Beth is that I perceive her as enabling Randall’s self-righteous and selfish tendencies by calling out other people’s behavior when she should be calling out his.  My prime example is when Randall first brought home William.  Instead of putting her foot down and firmly telling him they were not going to give shelter to  a stranger about whom they knew nothing except his abandoning Randall as an infant, she addressed William instead.  This gets spun as Beth devotedly protecting Randall from his own righteous excesses, but I can’t help seeing it as feeding Randall’s sanctimonious narrative and writing herself into it.

This happened a bit with Deja as well, when she sought legal advice about trying to keep Deja in their home instead of bringing Randall back to reality and reminding him that as foster parents, they had to comply with the agency and court.  (OTOH, I thought she handled Deja’s hygiene issues perfectly, until Randall put his foot in it by telling Deja that Beth disclosed her confidences.)

Disclosure:  my opinion is influenced by my experience with an ex-spouse who did selfish and irresponsible things under color of righteousness and religious piety.  Since we were living in the real world, this almost invariably led to adverse consequences.

[birkenstock]

I don't think that the Pearsons or Kevin are racist, but Kevin has said and done some racially charged things.  Calling Randall Webster at home and siding with the mini-racists at school has made it so I have a hard time warming up to him.  He wanted to be liked by kids at school, but did it have to be by the boys who racially alienated his brother?  I was ready to completely write him off after he made the comment about the black Manny and another black man replacing him.  I can understand Kevin being resentful about Randall's problems coming first and Rebecca coddling Randall, the way Kevin presented it made him look like a shitty person.   For me, Kevin running to Randall's side and helping him through his breakdown doesn't wipe away decades of Kevin rejecting Randall and making Randall like feel even more of an outsider.  I can see why Beth doesn't like Kevin.  I wouldn't like or trust Kevin after hearing about how Kevin treated Randall all their lives and then seeing how he puts on a facade in public. 

I'm better able to see Kevin's point of view this season.  I just hate that he takes out his aggression on Randall when his animosity is mostly directed at Rebecca as if Randall is an extension or placeholder for her. 

Edited January 12, 2018 by birkenstock

[mommalib]

1 hour ago, birkenstock said:

I don't think that the Pearsons or Kevin are racist, but Kevin has said and done some racially charged things.  Calling Randall Webster at home and siding with the mini-racists at school has made it so I have a hard time warming up to him.  He wanted to be liked by kids at school, but did it have to be by the boys who racially alienated his brother?  I was ready to completely write him off after he made the comment about the black Manny and another black man replacing him.  I can understand Kevin being resentful about Randall's problems coming first and Rebecca coddling Randall, the way Kevin presented it made him look like a shitty person.   For me, Kevin running to Randall's side and helping him through his breakdown doesn't wipe away decades of Kevin rejecting Randall and making Randall like feel even more of an outsider.  I can see why Beth doesn't like Kevin.  I wouldn't like or trust Kevin after hearing about how Kevin treated Randall all their lives and then seeing how he puts on a facade in public. 

I'm better able to see Kevin's point of view this season.  I just hate that he takes out his aggression on Randall when his animosity is mostly directed at Rebecca as if Randall is an extension or placeholder for her. 

Articulated prefectly

[AmandaPanda]

As a reminder, here at PTV, we treat our discussions like a dinner party. Having a thoughtful discussion over the social implications of describing different characters of various races? Fine. Calling other people racist because they disagree with you? Not okay. Several posts have been hidden for crossing over from discussing the show to discussing other posters. Let's keep it on topic and keep it civil.

Love, @AmandaPanda, @Mudra, & @Lady Calypso 

[GodsBeloved]

On 1/11/2018 at 9:45 AM, Lady Calypso said:

IOne of my favourite scenes this season is Beth's scene with Deja, with her hair.

Yes I loved that. Beth was awesome. This may be unpopular but I liked the Deja storyline overall and was disappointed when she left.

Edited January 13, 2018 by GodsBeloved

[ShadowFacts]

2 minutes ago, GodsBeloved said:

Yes I loved that. Beth was awesome. This may be unpopular but I like the Deja storyline overall was disappointed when she left.

Deja was my favorite character on the show while she was on. 

[GodsBeloved]

10 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I can't remember much criticism of Beth before this episode. She's one of the most-liked characters on this show. Calling her out on behavior the character herself called passive-aggressive does not make people racist. Whether it's necessary to use the b-word is another story. Kate has been called the b-word with some regularity too.

I cringe when I see a woman referred to as a bitch.

[MsChicklet]

11 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I can't remember much criticism of Beth before this episode. She's one of the most-liked characters on this show. Calling her out on behavior the character herself called passive-aggressive does not make people racist.

That's true. I've mostly seen very positive comments about Beth. Of the Other Big Three (and Sophie), her character has been the most fleshed-out and developed, thanks to the prominence of the Randall-William story last season and Beth's time with William, as well as her time with Deja this season.

[Bean421]

I've got two boys and the fact that Jack and Rebecca let so much of Kevin's cruelty to Randall slide blows my mind. My kids fight like normal siblings, but the way we've seen kid/teen Kevin interact with Randall makes me majorly side-eye the parents. That kid was crying out for a therapist!

[Runningwild]

33 minutes ago, Bean421 said:

I've got two boys and the fact that Jack and Rebecca let so much of Kevin's cruelty to Randall slide blows my mind. My kids fight like normal siblings, but the way we've seen kid/teen Kevin interact with Randall makes me majorly side-eye the parents. That kid was crying out for a therapist!

They act like most brothers I know. If Kevin was crying for a therapist it’s because his parents ignored his cries for attention. They could never be bothered to look or listen to Kevin. Randall’s studying late? Kevin has to suck it up and sleep with Randall’s light on. Kevin wants to tell Rebecca about camp. Sure, but first let Rebecca tell him about Randall’s new glasses and warn Kevin not to tease him. When she wouldn’t even look up from the book she was reading (right next to her favorite), he felt he had to act out and live down to her expectations just to get her attention. Did they ever ask him why he treated Randall the way he did? It seems his behavior backfired and mostly got Randall more attention. 

[MissLucas]

To be fair Rebecca and Jack were aware of the problem and tried to deal with it on occasion as shown in the camping episode. It didn't work out in the long-term maybe because they approached it as Randall's problem more than as Kevin's problem. That's how they perceived it without realizing that their perception contributes to the very problem.

And while I can easily see how the family constellation and its underlying dynamics caused Kevin to lash out against Randall I still believe there's a piece missing to explain his behavior to its full extent and that has to do with the other dead Pearson. We know how Randall learned about Kyle but we still don't know when and how Rebecca and Jack talked to Kate and Kevin about the fact that they're not twins but actually triplets. If you google twinless twin there's plenty of evidence that the loss of a womb-sibling can have a profound effect on the survivor(s). Experts also advise to talk to the survivor(s) as soon as possible about the loss. From all we've seen Jack and Rebecca didn't do that; not blaming them - research is recent and they were probably afraid it would make matters worse for Randall.

Edited January 13, 2018 by MissLucas

[izabella]

23 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

And while I can easily see how the family constellation and its underlying dynamics caused Kevin to lash out against Randall I still believe there's a piece missing to explain his behavior to its full extend and that has to do with the other dead Pearson. We know how Randall learned about Kyle but we still don't know when and how Rebecca and Jack talked to Kate and Kevin about the fact that they're not twins but actually triplets. If you google twinless twin there's plenty of evidence that the loss of a womb-sibling can have a profound effect on the survivor(s). Experts also advise to talk to the survivor(s) as soon as possible about the loss. From all we've seen Jack and Rebecca didn't do that; not blaming them - research is recent and they were probably afraid it would make matters worse for Randall.

I never thought about that.  Kyle is left out of the big three chant - there were four, not three.  Now that you mention it, I'd be very, very interested in hearing how Jack and Rebecca handled telling Kate and Kevin about Kyle.

[Runningwild]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I never thought about that.  Kyle is left out of the big three chant - there were four, not three.  Now that you mention it, I'd be very, very interested in hearing how Jack and Rebecca handled telling Kate and Kevin about Kyle.

Same here. My older brother is a twinless twin. I wonder when Mom told him? And they didn’t bring home another baby. That has to effect a kid- your triplet brother died but we chose to bring home Randall. I would hope they never said “We chose Randall but we didn’t really have a choice with you but the way they focus on constantly trying to make Randall feel loved and wanted, might make young Kevin think that in his mind. 

[Marley]

I haven’t like Randall this whole season pretty much and still dislike him after the most recent episode. He’s such a self righteous prick and I hate how he talks.

Also upcoming episode has more William stuff and I’m sure it’s going to portray him more as this perfect romantic saint. Enough of William pls ..he died on the show and I’ve learned enough about his past I don’t care anymore. 

Edited January 13, 2018 by Marley

[TwoGrayTabbies]

48 minutes ago, Marley said:

 

Also upcoming episode has more William stuff and I’m sure it’s going to portray him more as this perfect romantic saint. Enough of William pls ..he died on the show and I’ve learned enough about his past I don’t care anymore. 

I want more William because there’s too much that hasn’t been explained.  What exactly happened with Randall’s birth and his mother’s death?  Did William just come home to find a dead body and a newborn baby?  Or was he was he present for the death and birth?  In either case, why didn’t he contact the appropriate responders/authorities?  This suggests some pretty serious failings on the part of a character who’s been presented as a soulful poet and sage.  This is a huge hole in the fabric of the story that I want filled in.

[ShadowFacts]

5 minutes ago, TwoGrayTabbies said:

I want more William because there’s too much that hasn’t been explained.  What exactly happened with Randall’s birth and his mother’s death?  Did William just come home to find a dead body and a newborn baby?  Or was he was he present for the death and birth?  In either case, why didn’t he contact the appropriate responders/authorities?  This suggests some pretty serious failings on the part of a character who’s been presented as a soulful poet and sage.  This is a huge hole in the fabric of the story that I want filled in.

Me, too.  I've always complained about it.  I've felt it is a failure in writing, but it may be deliberate and they are going to reveal things that will tarnish William's halo.  That would make a lot of viewers happy who think he is too saintly.  I wouldn't mind it in and of itself, I just hope it does not turn out that Randall's birth mother did not die in childbirth and is still out there.  If the mother just took off and abandoned her baby and boyfriend, I could see William trying to protect Randall from that harsh truth, and that mysterious mother character is too full of dramatic potential to never explore.  I hope I haven't veered too far into speculation territory, but it's my possibly UO that there's a lot to be found out about younger William and they have a terrific actor portraying him, so bring it on. 

[Marley]

I think that it’s gonna turn out that William was a saint back then too when all that was happening  and nothing will be revealed that would tarnish his halo. My memory is foggy about Randall’s Mom and what happened in season 1 but I bet she will turn out alive and ugh just more crap with Randall. I can already picture the SL in my head. Randall confronting his birth mom with his self righteous speech and self righteous face.

[Pallas]

14 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I still believe there's a piece missing to explain his behavior to its full extent and that has to do with the other dead Pearson. We know how Randall learned about Kyle but we still don't know when and how Rebecca and Jack talked to Kate and Kevin about the fact that they're not twins but actually triplets.

Yes. I think part of Kevin's problem with Randall is that Randall isn't Kyle. And Kevin's missing Kyle started before he was told there had ever been a Kyle. It's why he could never explain to Jack, or himself, why he rejects Randall.

On the day that the Big Three were born, Randall lost a mother and a father, Kate lost a brother and Kevin may have lost an identical twin. It may be another reason -- beyond his parents' inattention, deeper and more powerful -- why Kevin always felt he never was enough. He wasn't missing something; he was missing someone.

[laurakaye]

14 hours ago, Pallas said:

Yes. I think part of Kevin's problem with Randall is that Randall isn't Kyle. And Kevin's missing Kyle started before he was told there had ever been a Kyle. It's why he could never explain to Jack, or himself, why he rejects Randall.

On the day that the Big Three were born, Randall lost a mother and a father, Kate lost a brother and Kevin may have lost an identical twin. It may be another reason -- beyond his parents' inattention, deeper and more powerful -- why Kevin always felt he never was enough. He wasn't missing something; he was missing someone.

It could explain a lot about Kevin - his brother dies but is simply replaced with Randall, and not only is Kyle replaced, Beth seems to love Randall more than Kevin.  Interesting.

My unpopular opinion is that just as I was getting ready to come here and snark, I.....actually didn't hate this episode?  I almost feel that the writers read this entire thread and, in the therapy session, addressed most of the eye-roll type things that drive a lot of us crazy..."saint" Jack, Kate's weight, "The Randall Show," William and Tess, the fact that if you're not born a Pearson you'll never "get it," Kevin being left out, etc.  Even Mandy Moore kind of nailed it when she said that Randall was just easier to love.  The acting, IMO, was FAR more realistic than anything we've seen so far, and it took me awhile to figure out why - I think it was the near-absence of the "MUST CRY NOW" schmaltzy music cues that this show often uses to bash us over the head.  Even Chrissy Metz, who I have so far found to be a very cardboard character, was believable during therapy.  And most shocking of all, I liked the bar scenes of Miguel, Beth and Toby - three characters that I have so far really disliked (and in Miguel's case, have no clue what he's all about).

For my fellow snarkers, what do you think?  Is this show's direction changing into something we can sink our teeth into, or next week are we back to grand gestures and sad music?  This episode was what I thought we were going to get all along...the dynamics of three siblings and their parents.  I am confused.

Edited January 14, 2018 by laurakaye

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

For my fellow snarkers, what do you think?  Is this show's direction changing into something we can sink our teeth into, or next week are we back to grand gestures and sad music?  This episode was what I thought we were going to get all along...the dynamics of three siblings and their parents.  I am confused.

Could be, but I think they would have to all live in the same vicinity for more interactions between Rebecca and her kids to occur regularly.  Having them split up on the opposite coasts and flying back and forth for urgent matters or show tapings or holidays just doesn't work well.  That's a structural problem they could easily solve.  As for manipulative things like grand gestures and sad music, next week's possible focus on more William backstory could go that way.  Unless they make a conscious pivot away from it. 

[Guest]

On 1/13/2018 at 10:11 AM, TwoGrayTabbies said:

I want more William because there’s too much that hasn’t been explained.  What exactly happened with Randall’s birth and his mother’s death?  Did William just come home to find a dead body and a newborn baby?  Or was he was he present for the death and birth?  In either case, why didn’t he contact the appropriate responders/authorities?  This suggests some pretty serious failings on the part of a character who’s been presented as a soulful poet and sage.  This is a huge hole in the fabric of the story that I want filled in.

I don’t think that’ll happen because it’s impossible to show a character that shot up with his pregnant girlfriend then abandoned the newborn without tarnishing his halo.   

My eye rolls this ep:  

AGAIN drama queen Randall does his fake fall to the floor act.  He did it when Beth called Kevin hot, too.  Enough.   It was never cute.   

Beth acting annoyed that Miguel dare speak while she’s about to throw a dart.   Like she’s on the PGA tour.   Them writing her with a hair trigger for snotty faces is the racist thing.   

They need to quit telling me Jack was a saint and start showing me.   Because I’m not seeing it.   I’m sure they think his martyr’s death will seal the deal but I’m not so sure.   I already know he dies in the fire in some selfless act for his family and still I balk at the canonization.   

[Runningwild]

I need to go back and rewatch more episodes. I’m pretty sure there were more subtle hints of Kevin feeling left out or resentful of Randall. Just rewatched the pool episode. It starts with Randall snatching away Kevin’s Rubik’s Cube and quickly solving it. So of course, Rebecca doesn’t scold Randall. Then wonders why Kevin is so jealous of Randall. Also, Kevin and Randall were together at the pool and Kevin was trying to get his Dad to watch him stand on his hands (and put his face in the water).  Kevin comes up for air and Jack wasn’t watching and Randall is gone. And Rebecca yells at Kevin for not watching his brother.

 

Also, in the present day Randall is distracted during a phone call with Kevin and hangs up on him. 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Runningwild

[methodwriter85]

On 1/14/2018 at 2:39 PM, laurakaye said:

Yes. I think part of Kevin's problem with Randall is that Randall isn't Kyle. And Kevin's missing Kyle started before he was told there had ever been a Kyle. It's why he could never explain to Jack, or himself, why he rejects Randall.

Taken to the Kevin thread.

[Lady Calypso]

So, I have to air my grievances out about William and Randall a little bit, but I think the reason why I don't like Randall this season is not just because of his pompous attitude, but how he's dealing with William's loss.

It's odd, because I actually really loved Randall last season and his story with William. But this season just isn't cutting it for me when it comes to Randall. I think it might have helped if William wasn't presented as some saint all the time. He might actually be worse than Jack for me at this point. At least with Jack, they do talk about him being perfect, but we're also shown his flaws and his wrongdoings sometimes. The most we've seen of William's mistakes is when he abandoned baby Randall at the firehouse, and we heard about his drug addiction, but every other instance of him being onscreen was him being a good guy and a saint and someone everyone loved. It's just a real disconnect when we don't see William have more consequences for his past actions. Sure, he's a good guy who made some very serious mistakes and has worked hard to make up for them. But maybe don't have every single person in William's life prop him as a really good guy. Just have one person say "hey, he wasn't always a stand-up guy" and show it. 

And maybe it would help if the show allowed Randall to actually get upset at William and be angry at him, instead of him waving away what William did. It's why I loved when Beth stood up to William in season 1 to protect her husband. William has done some shitty things and I just wanted some acknowledgement of it onscreen. Even in this past episode, every one of William's neighbours only had positive things to say. Why couldn't they have one person not know who William was or have them not be that impressed by him?

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Why couldn't they have one person not know who William was or have them not be that impressed by him?

Well, the super didnt' seem that impressed with him because he was always bugging her.  But, Randall introduced himself as William's son.  If I was the worst scumbag in the world's neighbor and he died and his son came and asked something about him, I would just find something positive to say and try to keep it short. 

[ShadowFacts]

16 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Well, the super didnt' seem that impressed with him because he was always bugging her.  But, Randall introduced himself as William's son.  If I was the worst scumbag in the world's neighbor and he died and his son came and asked something about him, I would just find something positive to say and try to keep it short. 

Also one of the tenants referred to him as a 'fancy man'.  But if a guy in the building was always going to bat for everyone with problems, it's likely they would mostly view that in a positive light.  It's not surprising that William would do that since we were led to believe he was a civil rights activist.  The biggest dirt we have on him in his later years is ghosting Jesse, but I bet there will be more to come. 

[Guest]

I thought the super's comments about him were the same OTT gushing BS these writers impose on us all the time.  Didn't she say that the heart of the building was gone or something?  I laughed out loud.  

[Lady Calypso]

26 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Well, the super didnt' seem that impressed with him because he was always bugging her.  But, Randall introduced himself as William's son.  If I was the worst scumbag in the world's neighbor and he died and his son came and asked something about him, I would just find something positive to say and try to keep it short. 

Possibly, but it was still somewhat masked with some positive things to say about William, wasn't it? I don't know; I guess I haven't been a fan of William ever since Beth had to apologize to William for being a bitch, as she put it, when I thought her worries were perfectly reasonable. I just don't feel like they've handled William's wrongdoings like they have for other characters. While characters like Rebecca and Kevin get shit on and the audience is supposed to root against them at times, and even Kate and Randall's actions are not always clear cut, William hasn't been treated the same way. I feel like the show has bypassed all of that. We hear about his bad choices, and how he kept abandoning people in his life, but I don't feel like we've seen them play out onscreen. I personally feel like they just showed the reconciliation moments. That's probably why I've never been a fan of William. I mean, I grew to like him somewhat last season, but I just wanted to see Randall get pissed at him beyond their first scene together.

I guess I'm kind of like Miguel and Kevin in the mall, where I want William's actions to just suck for a while, instead of them getting a positive spin to it. Perhaps if the show had done that last season, it could have helped me grow to like William more. Instead, they had that masked with William's terminal cancer, which made it harder for the show to have the audience mad at him, and now he's dead, which means it's just as hard to showcase his flaws. 

[methodwriter85]

Heaven. We saw William in HEAVEN. I can't with the beatification of William, especially if you just know they're going to blame everything that happened on the mother.