S01.E05: The Mission

[merylinkid]

DC itself is not that big.   But, there are plenty of buildings close by in VA and MD.   Heavens the University of Maryland is spitting distance from the DC line.    There are plenty of places they could put a temporary Congress.   Presumably also the other government buildings are still standing even if the particulary Cabinet officer is dead.   So the bureacracy would still be going to work.  

Query would Metro be running?   Can you imagine the excuse for the delays with this situation?

[Arkay]

One thing that I am finding very confusing has to do with the architectural plans for room 105. Unless I misunderstood, didn't the architect tell Maggie Q that room 105 would not appear in the blueprints, because it's a hideaway room? And it wasn't to be seen between rooms 104 and 106? Then later, when the tech guy is showing Maggie Q about the bomb shelter, he finds that out by overlaying the blueprints, with room 105 clearly designated, over the spot where MacLeish was found. Or am I forgetting something?

I loved 24 and was excited about this show, but I feel that it's largely a disappointment. I'm a lifelong New Yorker who lived through 9/11 and knew several people who died in the WTC, as well as one person on one of the planes.  I'm still not over it. The city was a completely different place for a long time afterward, both psychologically and physically as well as logistically. The skyline was horribly altered, the smoke lasted forever, you couldn't travel around the same way as before, and everyone was grieving. There is not NEARLY enough devastation going on in this plot to show how D.C. and the entire country would ACTUALLY be suffering after the whole government was wiped out. 

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Arkay said:

One thing that I am finding very confusing has to do with the architectural plans for room 105. Unless I misunderstood, didn't the architect tell Maggie Q that room 105 would not appear in the blueprints, because it's a hideaway room? And it wasn't to be seen between rooms 104 and 106? Then later, when the tech guy is showing Maggie Q about the bomb shelter, he finds that out by overlaying the blueprints, with room 105 clearly designated, over the spot where MacLeish was found. Or am I forgetting something?

I loved 24 and was excited about this show, but I feel that it's largely a disappointment. I'm a lifelong New Yorker who lived through 9/11 and knew several people who died in the WTC, as well as one person on one of the planes.  I'm still not over it. The city was a completely different place for a long time afterward, both psychologically and physically as well as logistically. The skyline was horribly altered, the smoke lasted forever, you couldn't travel around the same way as before, and everyone was grieving. There is not NEARLY enough devastation going on in this plot to show how D.C. and the entire country would ACTUALLY be suffering after the whole government was wiped out. 

I'm not 100% sure, but I think those were specifically construction blueprints, and 105 was below ground (maybe accessed via a closet door down the hall?).

My daughter was a freshman at NYU living in a "dorm" less than a mile from ground zero. I remember her calling me, crying, because the streets were like a ghost town — not like the New York she had wanted to live in. Slightly OT: She still lives in lower Manhattan, so she's a New Yorker now. 

[RemoteControlFreak]

6 hours ago, buckboard said:

Although I don't have specific knowledge of D.C's buildings, I'm sure there must be several possible sites that could be cobbled together as a temporary Capitol building.  Nothing fancy.  An auditorium at a university; a public arena, a government building, etc.  A military base.  

After the 1906 S.F. earthquake, city services were conducted in a variety of temporary space during the rebuilding period.

Right. As far we know, all of the House and Senate office buildings are still standing. So they just need a couple of auditoriums in which to meet.  

[kili]

I knew that the head SEAL would die. When the President had to go visit the SEAL training room, one of them had to die and since the two other guys introduced were total tropes (the one with the baby on the way and the one with the delayed honeymoon - I'm surprised one of them didn't show a picture of his wife to Kirkman while the other handed him a note to give his unborn child should he not make it), the only other SEAL we met had to bight it.

When Kirkman was dithering about sending in the troops, all I could think about is how his dithering in the last episode set this situation up. Why was Kirkman surprised that the guy who caught and executed a spy would take off from the compound he was at? The guy is a terrorist - not an idiot.  And if catching and torturing the spy didn't clue in the terrorist, contacting the government known to be friendly with him would. "Hey, did you know your pet terrorist is living at 1115 Desert Row? Can you kill him for us? No? Do you mind if we ignore your sovereignty and do it ourselves? No? OK then. I'll just go to bed and think about that for a few more hours" Kirkman might as well have sent him a singing telegram telling him to get out of his compound and find some human shields. Sure, wait around some more Kirkman. Let the terrorist really dig in and set up counter measures. Meanwhile, the Algerians will get their air defences back on line. Why send in the SEALs when there is a 50/50 chance at success when you can send them in when there is a 10% chance at success?

If you have decided to do a risky mission and the target has been tipped off, waiting rarely helps. 

Quote

I did like Seth's answer to the reporter about not being able to avoid questions "Watch me."

That reminded me of an amazing impromptu press conference that Prime Minister Trudeau (the first) gave during the October Crisis. A Quebec Cabinet Minister and a British Diplomat had been kidnapped and the group that held them were making all sorts of demands. As he walked into the House of Commons (Canadian version of the Capital Building) the press started asking him questions. The exchange led to the catch phrase "Just watch me" being used in Canadian politics for decades. Here is an excerpt from that exchange (although, it is how Trudeau delivers those lines that has all the impact):

Trudeau: Yes, well there are a lot of bleeding hearts around who just don't like to see people with helmets and guns. All I can say is, go on and bleed, but it is more important to keep law and order in this society than to be worried about weak-kneed people who don't like the looks of a soldier's helmet.

Ralfe: At any cost? How far would you go with that? How far would you extend that?

Trudeau: Well, just watch me.

Very tangentially related to this show is that three days later, Trudeau would enact the War Measures Act (basically marshall law) with only 16 members of Parliament voting against it. One of those 16 was Tommy Douglas...Keifer's grandfather.

Edited October 29, 2016 by kili

[Danielg342]

4 hours ago, kili said:

I knew that the head SEAL would die. When the President had to go visit the SEAL training room, one of them had to die and since the two other guys introduced were total tropes (the one with the baby on the way and the one with the delayed honeymoon - I'm surprised one of them didn't show a picture of his wife to Kirkman while the other handed him a note to give his unborn child should he not make it), the only other SEAL we met had to bight it.

When Kirkman was dithering about sending in the troops, all I could think about is how his dithering in the last episode set this situation up. Why was Kirkman surprised that the guy who caught and executed a spy would take off from the compound he was at? The guy is a terrorist - not an idiot.  And if catching and torturing the spy didn't clue in the terrorist, contacting the government known to be friendly with him would. "Hey, did you know your pet terrorist is living at 1115 Desert Row? Can you kill him for us? No? Do you mind if we ignore your sovereignty and do it ourselves? No? OK then. I'll just go to bed and think about that for a few more hours" Kirkman might as well have sent him a singing telegram telling him to get out of his compound and find some human shields. Sure, wait around some more Kirkman. Let the terrorist really dig in and set up counter measures. Meanwhile, the Algerians will get their air defences back on line. Why send in the SEALs when there is a 50/50 chance at success when you can send them in when there is a 10% chance at success?

If you have decided to do a risky mission and the target has been tipped off, waiting rarely helps. 

That reminded me of an amazing impromptu press conference that Prime Minister Trudeau (the first) gave during the October Crisis. A Quebec Cabinet Minister and a British Diplomat had been kidnapped and the group that held them were making all sorts of demands. As he walked into the House of Commons (Canadian version of the Capital Building) the press started asking him questions. The exchange led to the catch phrase "Just watch me" being used in Canadian politics for decades. Here is an excerpt from that exchange (although, it is how Trudeau delivers those lines that has all the impact):

Trudeau: Yes, well there are a lot of bleeding hearts around who just don't like to see people with helmets and guns. All I can say is, go on and bleed, but it is more important to keep law and order in this society than to be worried about weak-kneed people who don't like the looks of a soldier's helmet.

Ralfe: At any cost? How far would you go with that? How far would you extend that?

Trudeau: Well, just watch me.

Very tangentially related to this show is that three days later, Trudeau would enact the War Measures Act (basically marshall law) with only 16 members of Parliament voting against it. One of those 16 was Tommy Douglas...Keifer's grandfather.

I love the analysis, and invoking Pierre Elliott Trudeau. I wasn't alive then to see it, but that's one of my favourite political moments. Daddy Trudeau had some balls...Trudeau the Younger could learn a lot from him.

Just a minor quibble- it's "martial" not marshall. I don't mean to be pedantic about it but I figure I'd point it out since I think the topic will come up again on this show.

[BellyLaughter]

On 28/10/2016 at 10:53 PM, Redcookie said:

It's been a while since 24 so I had forgotten.....but....Keifer's whispery voice makes me pull my fingernails off...one-by-one.  ?

OMG! I thought I was the only one suffering from 24 annoyance flashbacks! 

[paigow]

14 hours ago, BellyLaughter said:

OMG! I thought I was the only one suffering from 24 annoyance flashbacks! 

Offset by his bellowing voice..."Who do you work for??"

[Mrs OldManBalls]

On 2016-10-26 at 11:18 PM, secnarf said:

I liked the "dammit".

I missed it! I need to rewatch. 

I'm loving the Seth Wright character. 

[Rambler]

What was up with the president seating the congress members at the opposite ends of his desk? I couldn’t concentrate on what he was saying because I was too distracted watching him swivel his head around like he was watching a tennis match.

[preeya]

30 minutes ago, Rambler said:

What was up with the president seating the congress members at the opposite ends of his desk? I couldn’t concentrate on what he was saying because I was too distracted watching him swivel his head around like he was watching a tennis match.

It was like "stuck in the middle" "Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right"

[Sake614]

I dunno, maybe I'm just easy but I still really like the show. And I like that Kirkman isn't a care politician, but that he actually cares about the men (and possibly women) under his command. Sure it was a risky mission, and of course the SEALS knew they might not make it. Doesn't mean he can't be concerned for their safety and want the best possible outcome. 

Honestly the only things that bothered me were the FBI deciding not to tell anyone, including the president, about their suspicions and the whole 'who's your daddy' story with Leo. Cause I really don't care one whit if tom is his father. I'd much prefer we just pretend the kids don't even exist or at least that Leo doesn't. He'll ship him off to military school or something.

either mcleish is really a bad guy or more likely we're just supposed to think he is. Cause damn he looked mighty shifty in the situation room when the admiral announced that the team got the terrorist. Which makes me think there's more to him than meets the eye but he's likely not part of the plot.

And I grinned from ear to ear at kiefer's 'dammit!' Any little callback to 24 makes me giddy lol!

To those who are drawing comparisons to west wing, I understand but this show was never billed as a West Wing type. And WW jumped the shark as soon as Bartlett's daughter was kidnapped (maybe sooner) and didn't recover until toward the end of its final season. So while it started out really well, it wasn't always too notch. It also had its lighter moments.

So I'm still in. If they dwell too much on the paternity nonsense, I may rethink that, but for now I think it gets better every week. As always, YMMV and that's cool too :)

[Dowel Jones]

3 hours ago, Sake614 said:

If they dwell too much on the paternity nonsense, I may rethink that,

Attention, Designated Survivor.  Scandal called, they want their plotlines back.

[marinw]

Quote

Sure it was a risky mission, and of course the SEALS knew they might not make it. Doesn't mean he can't be concerned for their safety and want the best possible outcome. 

Excellent point Sake. It would have been more disturbing if he felt nothing. The surviving SEALS are grieving too, even if they accept the death, but being military they show (or don't show) their grief differently. Tom is a civilian and he's new to all of this.

[Sake614]

I mean, just because we've never seen a sitting president meet with soldiers/sailors before a mission doesn't mean he doesn't call them or at least isn't concerned for their safety, or even second guess himself if a mission goes awry. We just don't see it.

[SanDiegoInExile]

On 10/26/2016 at 8:24 PM, Frozendiva said:

I'd like the show to be like the West Wing - but it would need Sorkin as the writer.

The thing that annoys me the most is that they keep using the "walking through the corridors, having key important discussions, with rotating staff" scenes.  I can appreciate an homage, but it's sorta like Little Rascals doing Shakespeare.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Designated Survivor Designates Possible Non-Survivors

President Kirkman makes a career out of agonizing over the men he puts in harm's way.

[rab01]

On 10/30/2016 at 11:05 AM, Sake614 said:

Honestly the only things that bothered me were the FBI deciding not to tell anyone, including the president, about their suspicions ...

But, once you have the possibility of an internal conspiracy, wouldn't the President be a major potential suspect as well? He's the one who most obviously gained power from the attack. 

Edited October 31, 2016 by rab01

[AZChristian]

2 hours ago, rab01 said:

But, once you have the possibility of an internal conspiracy, wouldn't the President be a major potential suspect as well? He's the one who most obviously gained power from the attack. 

But if he knew he was going to become president that night, would he have been sitting around in a pair of jeans and a college sweatshirt?  LOL.

[izabella]

This show is not showing the depth or magnitude of what would happen in this country if such a tragic act of terrorism (home grown or foreign) occurred, nor the fascinating inner workings of the White House during such a situation.  It also fails as an action/adventure series, though I guess it comes closest to being that than anything else.  This one may be coming off my list if nothing changes in the next episode or two.

Edited October 31, 2016 by izabella

[Danielg342]

On 31/10/2016 at 4:24 PM, AZChristian said:

But if he knew he was going to become president that night, would he have been sitting around in a pair of jeans and a college sweatshirt?  LOL.

In fairness, I doubt the FBI would know that about Kirkman.

[marinw]

On 31/10/2016 at 5:45 PM, izabella said:

This show is not showing the depth or magnitude of what would happen in this country if such a tragic act of terrorism (home grown or foreign) occurred, 

The world building does seem incomplete. The focus is on Tom, his family and his inner circle with a couple of FBI folks thrown in. Maybe this is an illustration of how Tom is in kind of a bubble, and we are seeing the world mostly from his perspective. And/or a decision by the show's Powers That Be not to take on too sprawling a narrative at this point.

[secnarf]

3 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

In fairness, I doubt the FBI would know that about Kirkman.

Didn't he get sworn in wearing his sweatshirt and jeans? I thought he didn't change into a (borrowed) suit until the television address.

[AZChristian]

16 minutes ago, secnarf said:

Didn't he get sworn in wearing his sweatshirt and jeans? I thought he didn't change into a (borrowed) suit until the television address.

I'm old and don't remember much, I do seem to remember that.  

[Danielg342]

57 minutes ago, secnarf said:

Didn't he get sworn in wearing his sweatshirt and jeans? I thought he didn't change into a (borrowed) suit until the television address.

You're right, he did.

Though I don't think it wouldn't preclude the FBI from considering him. Our pals at Criminal Minds would call his getup the perfect ruse...

[Clover]

Finally watched this episode last night.  Show is losing me fast.  Liked the premise, and was willing to watch despite Keifer.  Don't like how he is playing the President.  His acting is so one note.  I'm not asking for William Shatner levels of emoting, but, can he produce more than low tones (whispers), minimal inflection, and a grimace every once in awhile?  I keep seeing his dad (Donald), or ANYONE ELSE in the part.  Not sure how much longer I'll watch.   The only "story" I'm paying attention to is the McLeish FBI investigation with Maggie Q.  Missed the rest, 'cuz I wasn't paying attention; too boring and the family drama belongs on a different show.

[piequinn35]

Is this an every 2 week tv show now? wtf

[CheshireCat]

On ‎31‎.‎10‎.‎2016 at 2:04 PM, rab01 said:

But, once you have the possibility of an internal conspiracy, wouldn't the President be a major potential suspect as well? He's the one who most obviously gained power from the attack. 

Likely but as I posted before, according to my research, the President has access to any information he wants to have access to, so one way or the other, I can't imagine that he wouldn't make use of that power (if he were in on it, he'd want to know where the investigation stands and if he wasn't in on it, I'd expect him to care where it stands every step of the way)

[Princess Lucky]

I am really enjoying this show. I'm only peeking at the forums once in a while, because I find that too much online participation can often dampen the experience, heh, but I make it a point to watch every week (well, every weekend) and I haven't lost interest yet.

I agree that it was obvious that a SEAL would bite the dust, but I think the show did a good enough job at keeping us guessing, what with the father-to-be, the newlywed, plus Dylan Walsh, i.e. the only famous actor (great seeing him, by the way).

I also think they're doing a good job with the McLeish stuff. He's obviously shady, and his reactions in this episode suggest he's in on the conspiracy, but he's also good at playing up the "aw shucks" aspect of the character, too. And I do agree that the FBI should tell the POTUS about him, but a) I don't think they know he's about to be offered the VEEP position and b) they really don't know who to trust.

Who do they tell? The POTUS personally? Isn't it likely that he'd be in on it? That whoever's behind this wanted this particular Designated Survivor to, well, survive, plus McLeish, their chosen one, to make it to that bunker? Same goes for Virginia Madsen's character, too. She was always going to survive, because she wasn't there. Maybe she's in on it. Who does the FBI tell? And I also think Malik Yoba was suggesting that telling the wrong person could get them killed, which is valid. I mean, as I watched, I was like "JUST TELL HIM" but I think it makes sense that they haven't.

Also, just as I was wondering if the show had blessedly forgotten about Kiefer's kids, we got the paternity bombshell. I like it. That's a good use of that annoying son, but only if he stays offscreen.

I'm really loving the Maggie Q/Malik Yoba scenes (which I thought would be boring, because of the investigation aspect), and I'm also loving Virginia Madsen (I weirdly trust her, even though she's openly anagonizing Kiefer. Or maybe that's exactly why I trust her). And Kal Penn's character is just the best. The other two (Aaron? And Kirkman's associate?) I could take or leave, though I think neither of them is a bad guy. And I will always love Kiefer.

I like the pace of the reveals so far, and I like that the writers seem to open up new doors (story-wise) with each episode. And each episode tends to have a major action-ish piece, too, which I enjoy. I'll definitely keep watching.

Edit: The best part of the episode was when Maggie Q said "lock the door" and Malik Yoba said "what's with the cloak-and-dagger?" Like, she didn't show up on your doorstep at 3AM in full disguise. She just told you to close the door.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Princess Lucky
I forgot to add my favorite part of the episode.

[jhlipton]

On 10/26/2016 at 11:52 PM, Moose135 said:

[T]hey did show a C-17, which would have been the appropriate aircraft to use for the mission.

Pardon my ignorance but would they transport helicopters on a cargo plane (or were the Black Hawks on the forward base)?

I liked the Reagan[spit!] and Carter reference.  Carter took responsibility for a failed mission just because he was Commander-in-Chief and took that part of the office serioursly.  Reagan took credit for a rescue orchestrated by treason.

On 10/27/2016 at 3:29 AM, Muffyn said:

Every time they mention a perimeter I laugh.  Sorry Kiefer, we learned on 24 that a perimeter is useless.  All it takes is a man in a hoodie carrying a manbag. 

At least this perimeter was secure!

On 10/27/2016 at 9:53 PM, buckboard said:

When Osama bin Laden was killed several years after 9/11, the nation was thrilled big time by the president's news.)

Except for the "I am not a racist"s claiming it didn't happen.

[Raja]

On 10/27/2016 at 6:53 PM, buckboard said:

Me, too.  "I like this show, but....."  I don't expect a documentary, but I keep thinking how people would react in real life.

If the terrorist responsible for the bombing is captured within a week or so, wouldn't the president go on TV right away with the announcement to reassure a grieving and angry country?  (When Osama bin Laden was killed several years after 9/11, the nation was thrilled big time by the president's news.)  In addition, it would benefit the wobbly administration politically to announce a successful mission

The president's naivete is annoying.  First off, you don't base a major military operation on a conversation with a junior officer, you work with your top military and civilian defense personnel.  And you don't talk with the troops about to go into battle and get so personally involved with "the nice fellow with a new baby" or "the guy who just got married"  that you consider even one possible death worthy of calling off the mission.  Or considering the capture of THE major terrorist not worth sending in the team if any one of the Seals might die.

BTW, should the president have called the Navy Seals soldiers?

 

I figure the President, who never dreamed of rising to office was of the type who never ever considered the military and giving the situation we have not been shown the protocol officer who reminds him that Corpsman sounds like "core" and not "corpse". As far as talking to the troops before the battle you don't have to be in uniform to be like Admiral Nelson at Trafalgar or General Eisenhower talking to the pathfinder Paratroopers before D-Day. Both were far above the ordinary seaman/private they were talking to. And it doesn't have to be incognito like in Henry V at Agincourt

[Netfoot]

14 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

Pardon my ignorance but would they transport helicopters on a cargo plane (or were the Black Hawks on the forward base)?

They certainly do carry helicopters on transport aircraft.  Helis are nasty, inefficient things.  If you want to transport them to (say) India, you don't fly them there under their own power.  You load them onto a C-17 and fly them out as cargo.

[Raja]

8 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Pardon my ignorance but would they transport helicopters on a cargo plane (or were the Black Hawks on the forward base)?
 

Given the timing of special operations snap missions flying out four Black Hawks in a C-17 might be done. But then again North Africa is enough of a conflict zone close enough to Europe for forward deployed helicopters to be near ready for stuff like rescuing the Nigerian girls kidnapped by Boko Haram and those might be used instead of flying the reserve/training helicopters from Kentucky or Georgia

[ally862]

I just watched all 5 episodes for the first time.  I actually said from the second episode that Maggie Q's boyfriend is either alive and in on it or was in on it and sacrificed himself.  I haven't seen anyone mention that but might have missed it?  

[Princess Lucky]

2 hours ago, ally862 said:

I just watched all 5 episodes for the first time.  I actually said from the second episode that Maggie Q's boyfriend is either alive and in on it or was in on it and sacrificed himself.  I haven't seen anyone mention that but might have missed it?  

If they had used a more famous actor as the boyfriend (say, Dylan Walsh), I could totally see that (even though I believe his remains were identified). But they used, like, a male model or a stock photo or something. A random dude (no offense to the actor, lol). I remember being surprised at the fact he was such a non-entity. I guess that was just to give Maggie Q a reason to be more emotional but also more dogged in her pursuit of the truth? Or maybe to get Malik Yoba to question her hunch? I don't know if they'll revisit that directly.

It would have been fun if McLeish was her boyfriend, and she still suspected him, and she had to interrogate him in front of the wife. But it would have been pretty convoluted and kind of a cliche, too (which describes this entire show, but still). 

By the way, I love how Maggie Q so openly suspects McLeish. Malik Yoba (I really need to learn their names) said she's a terrible liar, and Maggie Q really sold that when she congratulated McLeish about the medal. Her subtle disdain was delicious. Early on, I was worried the FBI side of things would bore me, but I really think the actors make it work.

[buckboard]

11 hours ago, Raja said:

As far as talking to the troops before the battle you don't have to be in uniform to be like Admiral Nelson at Trafalgar or General Eisenhower talking to the pathfinder Paratroopers before D-Day. Both were far above the ordinary seaman/private they were talking to. And it doesn't have to be incognito like in Henry V at Agincourt

My point is that not that the president spoke with troops of lesser rank before sending them out, but that he was basing policy -- whether he should even send them on the mission --  now that he knew their personal stories.  

The admirals and generals you mention were encouraging their troops, while knowing full well that many of these men would not survive the mission he was sending them on.

[jhlipton]

5 hours ago, Raja said:

Given the timing of special operations snap missions flying out four Black Hawks in a C-17 might be done. But then again North Africa is enough of a conflict zone close enough to Europe for forward deployed helicopters to be near ready for stuff like rescuing the Nigerian girls kidnapped by Boko Haram and those might be used instead of flying the reserve/training helicopters from Kentucky or Georgia

Thanks!

[ally862]

5 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

If they had used a more famous actor as the boyfriend (say, Dylan Walsh), I could totally see that (even though I believe his remains were identified). But they used, like, a male model or a stock photo or something. A random dude (no offense to the actor, lol). I remember being surprised at the fact he was such a non-entity. I guess that was just to give Maggie Q a reason to be more emotional but also more dogged in her pursuit of the truth? Or maybe to get Malik Yoba to question her hunch? I don't know if they'll revisit that directly.

It would have been fun if McLeish was her boyfriend, and she still suspected him, and she had to interrogate him in front of the wife. But it would have been pretty convoluted and kind of a cliche, too (which describes this entire show, but still). 

By the way, I love how Maggie Q so openly suspects McLeish. Malik Yoba (I really need to learn their names) said she's a terrible liar, and Maggie Q really sold that when she congratulated McLeish about the medal. Her subtle disdain was delicious. Early on, I was worried the FBI side of things would bore me, but I really think the actors make it work.

Damn.  I was hoping I just didn't know the actor.

[queenanne]

I also feel like the American public couldn't give two hoots about any paternity scandal with regards to next-door-to-a-stranger President Kirkman.  if it were a current career politician we'd seen every day for years , then sure, it might be seen as a betrayal of "what we thought we knew"; but who's formed any preconceived notions about the HUD Secretary?  At best the real-father issue will just be a distraction.  At worst we'll be expected to believe that the American people think this somehow emasculates him and likes him less as a result for some odd reason (full disclaimer; I'm popping off with my opinions having not seen the subsequent episode).

[3girlsforus]

Wrong thread

Edited November 13, 2016 by 3girlsforus

[John Potts]

Must be nice being president, what with all that time to sit around and mope. Lucky he doesn't have a thousand and one jobs to do and can apparently wander down to the local army base by adopting the impenetrable disguise of... a baseball hat. And seriously, MAN UP! If you send soldiers into war, people are going to die. Best you can do is minimise that number (and a mission where you got your man and only one soldier died must be considered a big success - it sounded like zero innocents were killed on the way).

WTF was with Congressman probabale traitor NOT wanting to be Speaker? Either a) he was in on it and is (in the absence of a VP) one step away from the Presidency or B) Not in on it and going, "Well, it's a crisis but - I've got better things to do than help out." At least have him say he was still shook up and had to talk with his wife about it, which would be a believable reaction (even if it was a lie).

First Son isn't the President's son? Is this Days of Our Lives*?

Liked Admiral Chair of the Joint Chiefs (trying to remember where I recognise the actor from - he was Mac's boss in CSI:NY). Though I will credit the show one thing: when Pres was meeting the team, I was going, "Nooo! Don't talk about their kid/new wife! They're sure to die now!" so I'm glad they avoided that.

Was this our first "Dammit!"? Maybe President Kirkman will find his inner Jack Bauer after all (hopefully with less torture). And they set a perimeter too!

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 8:37 AM, Dowel Jones said:

McLeish definitely had an upset look on his face when Kirkman hugged him in the war room.  Was he expecting a different outcome?

I was wondering if Kirkman was hugging his bruises! But wasn't there a suggestion (in the Pilot) that Kirkman was only chosen to be the DS at the last minute? He may have been expecting to work with a different President.

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 10:50 AM, marinw said:

Although maybe talking to Alex was a security breach, Alex is very smart and sensible and is a good sounding board.

I would think that the First Lady (or First Husband, if that ever happens) would be granted some level of security clearance because it's inevitable they will hear classified information, even if only accidentally. Though I can see clearing her would not be a top priority for the FBI(?) at the moment.

On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 6:09 PM, rab01 said:

Hookstratten (one of top 3 people left in the Federal Government) met on a park bench with the FBI? Sure…

On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 7:47 PM, Dowel Jones said:

Happens all the time in Scandal. 

Independent confirmation - it must be true!

* No offence meant to DooL