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Season 3 Discussion


OnceSane
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Junior put out a fire and saved the house and Dre yelled at him. Fuck that! It's too much! You can make a main character flawed and even unlikeable at times but if they don't have a heart, it's too much. Especially when the victim is a teenager. I'm about ready to quit the show because it's just awful watching Junior be treated like this week after week.

The stuff with Bow and Gigi was uneven but mostly I liked it. It's normal to feel insecure as a mom so I liked seeing that from both sides. Bow and Gigi were both passive-aggressive in the beginning but since they came together at the end, I get that.

I loved the Christmas music talks, enjoyed Ruby and Johan's moment, liked Diane and loved Junior's plot but Dre is too much.

  • Love 10

I don't really believe that Diane is intimidated by elves and Santa.  By the time one knows where babies come from (which, since they are 10,  they should have known for years; even more so now that their mom is pregnant), it strains credulity that they would still believe. They both have exposure to the internet and go to school with other children.  Jack is written as an idiot, so perhaps he is still clueless, but Diane is savvy.

I thought that the baby might be deaf, since Bow commented that he didn't react to beeps and other sounds.  If he keeps having his favorite song pumped though his headphones, who knows.  If a baby needs a song played on repeat, play it in the room he's in, and those who can't stand it will have to leave the room. If you're in the car and can't leave, choose between hearing the song on repeat, or the baby screaming.  Don't cut the baby off from external sounds, unless he had a diagnosed problem with external stimulation.

Oh, so Bow is pregnant! I thought we had all forgotten about that! 

Apparently the Johnson Christmas took a turn into the Griswald Christmas! I knew that tree was going up in flames. Come on Dre. Get your life together. 

The Christmas movie stuff was probably my favorite part of the episode. Although I did laugh at Diane and Jack running around from that creepy bear starring at them. I do wonder how Diane is sometimes an older Stewie from Family Guy, and sometimes a normal kid trying to be good for Christmas. 

  • Love 1
54 minutes ago, charmed1 said:

Please no more Tyra. Love her as a model, but damn I hate her acting. I could've sworn those were two different babies they were using. 

Yeah, she's not a good actor. 

I was interested in how they got the baby to cry. So many times in TV shows you can hear the baby crying, but the face is directed away from the camera.  I'm not sure how they got the baby to cry since they can't be cruel.

I was hoping that Johan was really going to leave because I just don't care for him or the actor. I did like when he described the song as an Irish dystopian vision of Christmas in a drunk tank.

I generally liked this ep. All the stuff with Dre's hidden foods was funny. Shame cake, sadness cookies, backup shame cake, insomnia cupcake, sleepy time cheetos, marshmallows for his morning-time s'mores.

I liked the bear-in-the-chair and how Diane and Jack reacted to it. I choose to believe that Christmas is one area where Diane is still child-like and innocent.

I wish some of Zoey's old decorations were faded, like the paper chain.

Loved that Ruby was sending out Black Jesus cards. 

Loved when Dre kicked some of Johan's clothes out the backdoor.

Junior: What are you two doing?
Jack: Laundry?

Jack: I'm not afraid of that bear. Am I, Diane?

Junior: No, Dad. Not this time. (Pops' mouth drops open)

I was surprised no more came of Ruby & Pops' claim that All I Want For Christmas is You was written before 1994. I expected the truth to come out.

  • Love 3

This could've been a good episode but was woefully underwritten and hamstrung by way too many stories.

Dre & Zoey's story should've been the 'A' story with Junior and the twins as the 'B' story which would've provided plenty of story between Andre's sadness at Zoey leaving, Zoey being wistful about the past, the twins getting into their usual mischief, Junior being adorably dorky and Dre redeeming himself after 'ruining' Christmas.

However the sheer amount of stories (Dre & Zoey, Junior & the twins, Earl/Ruby/Johan and Gigi Vs. Rainbow) had the writers randomly dropping characters, when they weren't sloppily attempting to shoehorn them into each others various subplots.

I will give the show props for continuity for remembering Gigi & Napoleon's relationship even if, ultimately, the show did nothing with it.

Edited by Dee
  • Love 2

Dre was a dick to Junior, but water is wet and snow is cold.  I loved Junior standing up to Dre and everyone looking at Dre like the asshole he is.

I really loved the Gigi/Bow competition because it reminds me of how many moms I've met act.  Plus, Bow's worry about having a baby so long after her last ones and Gigi buying every baby item in sight in hopes of figuring this parenting thing out rang very true to me.

I thought the episode would end with Ruby or Johan showing up at the other's door in nothing but some mistletoe or a strategically placed Santa hat.  

  • Love 3

There was certainly a lot going on in this episode, but I mostly liked it. Dre was, and as most times, just too much. I did chuckle when Junior would respond to Dre's crap with "Hurtful!", but the fact that his Dad was being hurtful wasn't funny. 
Tyra is terrible but she was in a small enough dose that I could manage. I loved when she and Bo finally came clean and Bo said "Kids are getting stronger" and Gigi responds "Like weed." Too funny, cause yes to both.

Also loved, Pops and Ruby arguing that Mariah Carey stole that song cause they made love to it in 1971! 

I don't understand why tv writers seem to think that having one child treated so poorly is so hiliarious, like Junior on this show, Alex on Modern Family and somewhat Brick on the Middle. It's not funny, it's disturbing. The whole Jr thing really pissed me off. This show is often very hard to watch. In general I rarely like Dre or Anthony Anderson. I love Bo and the kids though and Pops. I wish the show would focus more on them. Dre is obnoxious.

Bear in the chair was funny, not believeable for Diane, but funny in general. Small kids would fall for that.

And while I don't like Ruby she was bearable in this ep and I must say, her new hairstyle is very becoming. Makes her look younger. Tyra's acting is awful!

Amazing how that baby seemed to be able to turn his crying on and off as if on cue.

Edited by kat165
I really can spell
  • Love 9

All I wanted for this Christmas episode was a simple warm acknowledgement from Dre that Junior most likely saved the house (and the holiday!) by calmly locating and using the fire extinguisher. But didn't get my wish, I guess Bear-in-the-Chair ratted me out to Santa. 

Dre is becoming sooo unlikeable, even though I related to his shame cookies and sadness cake. And drop-kicking Johan's clothes out the door. 

Would have been fun to get a quick scene of Charlie and Eustace having a very Charlie Christmas. 

Edited by RedHawk
  • Love 5

I also find Andre's treatment of his son to be abusive and disturbing. It's even more wrong given this is a black family. Bow needs to have a talk with her husband. Not a fan of ego the character's ego mania and Anthony Anderson's over the top acting, either. Last week when he was barging into the Teen Vogue offices acting like a fool I was ready to completely swear off of this show which I often record and delete without watching because this character is so overbearing.

Who is this Gigii woman? A friend of Bow's?

  • Love 7

Wow, this show has descended into being a joke and not delivering them.

Bow being inept was so flat and completely boring.  It doesn't help to have Tyrant Banks as your celebrity cameo to play off of, but to have her just not be able to handle an infant as a way to tie in her pregnancy was completely unbelievable.  Because of new gadgets and ideas somehow the old ones don't work?  And I care nothing about the character of Gigi anyway no matter who plays her so this whole plotline was dull as hell.

I no way believe even Jack buys into the elf thing let alone the bear.  I do believe that Diane knows sure as hell that the good stuff comes from mom and dad and just random bad behavior this time of year is not the thing.  Do these writers ever think beyond five seconds to the actual characters they have created?

Going past the really horrific man-baby HATE that Dre sent Junior's way at a level that should have had child services called (the balance of bad parenting and not being toxic isn't as hard to write as these clusterfucks on this show seem to make it -- Still Standing managed it wonderfully and easily, others to a lesser degree-- this has absolutely no humor whatsoever) not to mention whoever is in charge of writing this needs to spend some money on some therapy for some really sick reverse Oedipal issues -- this makes me think the head writer still wets the bed and has dreams of breastfeeding with mother.  I found the whole "last Christmas thing also weak.  Its not like college kids don't come home for Christmas.  And in some ways making the perfect Christmas of yore is more a plotline you would pull out when Zoie comes back from college especially when Zoie expresses a desire to go spend most of them with friends from school. 

Since American sitcoms assume their audience hasn't sat through other countless sitcoms, not to mention a Charlie Brown's Christmas, Frosty, Rudolph and all the other televised media that basically tries to force the 'meaning of Christmas" on us over and over again, and so we get the wrap up here as well, why didn't they have Dre continue with the "before the baby comes" theme?  Have him want to do some splashy event holiday, skiing, the tropics etc; something overtly different from the regular type of Christmas they do?

I usually find Ruby ridiculous, but I did like the music thing.  Too bad the writers still find sexual predatory behavior funny simply because the genders are reversed.  I wonder if they would let Pops treat a female relative of Bow's like that?  If they want it funny, let Johan return the attraction even though he is appalled by it and knows how bad it would turn out for the whole extended family dynamic. 

Nothing but lazy jam packed weak and outright offensive writing.  And I didn't even put my stocking out.  This last episode of the year might finally be enough to completely quit this show. 

  • Love 1

mansonlamps there could have been plenty of humorous conflict in that area.  Bow struggling to bite her lip because having been through it with Ruby, she knows what it is like to have someone step in and be a know it all.   Yet seeing the ridiculous extent that the new mother was going through and either not getting the results or simply wearing herself out.  And throwing Ruby in the mix with maybe Not being the know it all with Gigi that she was with Bow.

This reminded me of Dre constantly making it sound like Bow didn't even raise her own children.  Has that been something new all of a sudden?  Because the constant rude reassurance that Ruby would be there for Gigi's baby if needed was also rather stupid and offensive.  Standing there basically saying he himself had no faith in the woman that up until last night's episode was meant to have done at least half the raising of their four children and more than once there has been enough inference to suggest that Bow did more of the heavy lifting in child rearing and that Dre tended to take the easy route or simply the ones that appealed to him and avoided the ones that didn't. 

  • Love 5

Dre's blatant contempt for his son isn't funny.  At all.  Junior is just a kid, and his father openly belittles him over and over again.  Just like the writers took Stevens from amusingly-clueless-rich-white-guy to openly-racist-"you know they hate you" this season, the writers don't seem to understand what's funny and what's crossing over the line. 

They haven't modulated the "Diane is twisted" theme very well this season, either. 

The writers need to get it together.

  • Love 12
3 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I wonder if it would ever occur to Anthony Anderson to say to the writers that he doesn't like the way they are writing him, and that it isn't funny. He's one of the producers, isn't he?

 

18 minutes ago, mikem said:

Dre's blatant contempt for his son isn't funny.  At all.  Junior is just a kid, and his father openly belittles him over and over again.  Just like the writers took Stevens from amusingly-clueless-rich-white-guy to openly-racist-"you know they hate you" this season, the writers don't seem to understand what's funny and what's crossing over the line. 

They haven't modulated the "Diane is twisted" theme very well this season, either. 

The writers need to get it together.

Anthony Anderson needs to go talk to Patricia Heaton, and the producers need go talk to those at The Middle.  That show frequently makes Frankie Heck very unlikeable, but they always undercut it by having Frankie recognize her own hehavior and then walk it back with a genuinly sweet moment.  This show does nothing to modulate Dre's awful behavior.  

  • Love 5
1 hour ago, Dee said:

I don't mind Andre's interactions with Junior, largely because the show has worked to even them out over the past couple of seasons, and because Rainbow has a similar relationship with Zoey.

I've never seen Bow treat Zoey with continual disrespect and rudeness. Junior is such a sweet, smart boy and Dre being an ass to him all the freaking time is not funny at all. It's the writers' gimmick for cheap, slapstick humor and it's not working. This is pretty much the reason why this show is not must see TV for me- I usually wait a week or so to catch up. I met one of the head writers once and wish I can meet her again so I can tell her to stop making Junior the punching bag. 

Edited by twoods
  • Love 10

Are this season's writers the same as the first season's writers? Because this show is increasingly going in a typical & dumb (& unpleasant) sitcom direction rather than doing the more  thought-provoking stories or new/different stories that were done previously. Bringing in Ruby more often, bringing in Bo's brother, the meaness of Dre towards Jr. It's very disheartening. The change in Dre's boss. Or are there new show runners?

Edited by kat165
  • Love 3

I will throw Diane's wicked ways and Dre's treatment of Junior into thar pile of things that offend or anger others while barely being a blip on my radar. I honestly just don't take my entertainment that seriously. Especially comedy. Comedy can be so absurd that I can't even personally imagine taking it seriously. It's a hyper version of real life. 

The things with a lot of comedies is they live in the extremes. They dial in on characters traits they find funny and play it to the hilt. Every single comedy on network tv is guilty of this to varying degrees. It's the nature of the beast. It barely registers with me because it's nothing new. If I felt like I was supposed to be taking it seriously I would but I know it's just silliness. 

Everyone could be dialed down a notch if I'm being real but the show has a good enough Balance of different types of extremes between the characters to enjoy the show.

  • Love 8
18 hours ago, politichick said:

I also find Andre's treatment of his son to be abusive and disturbing. It's even more wrong given this is a black family. Bow needs to have a talk with her husband.

Given Bow's little drive-by to Junior last week, I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. She's just as much into treating Junior badly as Dre is.

  • Love 2
Quote

This reminded me of Dre constantly making it sound like Bow didn't even raise her own children.  Has that been something new all of a sudden?  Because the constant rude reassurance that Ruby would be there for Gigi's baby if needed was also rather stupid and offensive.  Standing there basically saying he himself had no faith in the woman that up until last night's episode was meant to have done at least half the raising of their four children and more than once there has been enough inference to suggest that Bow did more of the heavy lifting in child rearing and that Dre tended to take the easy route or simply the ones that appealed to him and avoided the ones that didn't. 

I took it as Dre's usual cluelessness about how things really work, including the raising of his own children. What I'm still wondering is what happened to the nanny/housekeeper? Has it been mentioned where she went and I just wasn't paying enough attention? You'd think with a baby on the way they'd want to have some extra help since they can afford it. I hope they aren't counting on Ruby to pick up the slack.

Quote

Given Bow's little drive-by to Junior last week, I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. She's just as much into treating Junior badly as Dre is.

Yep, and Bow was in on the "Diane is evil" stuff too.

Edited by Joimiaroxeu
  • Love 2
On 12/15/2016 at 9:40 AM, peeayebee said:

I was surprised no more came of Ruby & Pops' claim that All I Want For Christmas is You was written before 1994. I expected the truth to come out.

I thought that was a reference to Pop & Ruby hooking up in 1994 AFTER they were divorced.  ie. every detail was correct, except it happened in 94 instead of 71.

So they went ahead with the icky Ruby & Johan subplot.  What happened to her much younger boyfriend???

15 hours ago, kat165 said:

Are this season's writers the same as the first season's writers? Because this show is increasingly going in a typical & dumb (& unpleasant) sitcom direction rather than doing the more  thought-provoking stories or new/different stories that were done previously. Bringing in Ruby more often, bringing in Bo's brother, the meaness of Dre towards Jr. It's very disheartening. The change in Dre's boss. Or are there new show runners?

I wonder if the network is meddling or if the writers got lazy after the first season success and went with the same old typical sitcom stuff that has been done forever.

  • Love 3

Add me to the chorus of those who think that Dre's horrid treatment of junior has to stop.  I want it addressed so  we don't get treated like dummie who are supposed to pretend that what we saw for three seasons never happened, but it needs to stop.

As for Ruby.  I thought the face on the Black Jesus card looked like Michael Ealy.

On 12/15/2016 at 10:57 AM, charmed1 said:

I think that was Dre's face she was using as Black Jesus lol!

  • Love 3

At this point I'd be okay if Dre went away for a while/forever and we watched the family work through that. At least that would provide some new storylines and give us a break from the man-baby who treats his kid(s) and wife like shit. Over and over and over again.

I really love a lot about this show, but how they're writing/playing Dre is starting to kill it.

  • Love 7
On 12/16/2016 at 1:30 AM, Racj82 said:

I will throw Diane's wicked ways and Dre's treatment of Junior into thar pile of things that offend or anger others while barely being a blip on my radar. I honestly just don't take my entertainment that seriously. Especially comedy. Comedy can be so absurd that I can't even personally imagine taking it seriously. It's a hyper version of real life. 

Diane I don't take seriously.  She's wicked but it's played for comedy and it makes me laugh.  And while I don't normally love the favoritism Dre (or Bow but Bow is not as often or as bad) show towards certain children, Dre's treatment of Junior in this episode made me feel uncomfortable. I didn't go looking for that feeling of discomfort. I don't watch this show to take it seriously.  In fact, I still find it mostly funny.  If I didn't, I'd drop it since there's too much to watch.

But the gaslighting Dre was doing here was vicious but more importantly, it felt vicious. LIke you could easily throw it into a drama about abusive parents and it would feel 100% authentic. I don't know if it was the performance, directing or what but it got past my "not taking comedy too seriously" filters and give me some visceral feels.

  • Love 10
5 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Diane I don't take seriously.  She's wicked but it's played for comedy and it makes me laugh.  And while I don't normally love the favoritism Dre (or Bow but Bow is not as often or as bad) show towards certain children, Dre's treatment of Junior in this episode made me feel uncomfortable. I didn't go looking for that feeling of discomfort. I don't watch this show to take it seriously.  In fact, I still find it mostly funny.  If I didn't, I'd drop it since there's too much to watch.

But the gaslighting Dre was doing here was vicious but more importantly, it felt vicious. LIke you could easily throw it into a drama about abusive parents and it would feel 100% authentic. I don't know if it was the performance, directing or what but it got past my "not taking comedy too seriously" filters and give me some visceral feels.

Nothing wrong with that. I don't think it's odd to have that feeling about the Dre/Junior dynamic. It's just doesn't hit me that way. Most comedy can easily dark of taken in another context. 

I think what also helps with their dynamic is that it makes any time Junior snaps back that much sweeter. It also makes the moments like when Dre tell Zoey and Junior he loves them both extra special. Of course, in reality, that should just be a normal moment. But, in tv, it's good to not switch things up. 

I think the difficult part for some is that Junior is such a sweet kid that any attack on him seems malicious. I get that but I've been watching network comedies for so long that I guess I'm partially immune. I understand the perspective others have on the issue but I have a disconnect that allows me to roll with the silliness.

  • Love 1

And Junior (like Rainbow) is adept at being OTT snarky and 'hitting back' as the rest of his/their family.

The only difference is that Marcus Scribner (like Tracee Ross) is so likeable in the role viewers are prone to give them a free pass in a way they wouldn't for their co-stars. Similar situations crop up with Earl/Ruby/D'Alicia & Andre/Charlie.

Edited by Dee
  • Love 1
8 hours ago, jah1986 said:

One thing that jumped out at me was Bow saying that she'd been a mother for 16 years. How old is Zoey supposed to be?

I noticed that as well and wondered if it was a deliberate slip up to show that Bow isn't as perfect of a mother as she comes across in that she doesn't even know the ages of her children.

On 12/15/2016 at 10:40 AM, peeayebee said:

I was surprised no more came of Ruby & Pops' claim that All I Want For Christmas is You was written before 1994. I expected the truth to come out.

It turns out that Ruby & Pops, and Dre were both right, sort of.  All I Want For Christmas is You was indeed written in 1994.  but there's a song called A Christmas Love Song that was written sometime in the 1950s or so (I can't find a date for it) that has been released as "All I Want For Christmas is You".

 

On 12/15/2016 at 4:21 PM, tenativelyyours said:

Too bad the writers still find sexual predatory behavior funny simply because the genders are reversed.  If they want it funny, let Johan return the attraction even though he is appalled by it and knows how bad it would turn out for the whole extended family dynamic.

The previous episode they showed Johann simultaneously excited and appalled.  They should have kept that.

  • Love 1

I keep watching, but really not as 'must see tv'.

The writing just has to get better.

there is so much talent on this show and the writers consistently are lazy and not writing to the talent they have.

I don't know how these things work, perhaps those mystical creatures known as 'showrunners' are responsible for the truly awful plots and writing.

Hoping for better in the new year.

  • Love 2

I called what her Bow's father said right after Bow and Dre met Megan. So this episode ring false to me. Just an excuse for flashbacks, which hilarious though. I get she would issues figuring out who she is until college, maybe even beyond. But to be over 40 and this whole thing? It rang false to me.

Ruby macking on Johan? Hilariously gross.

Why is Wanda back? Charlie is here. We don't need her. All of his nicknames had me dying. Never change Charlie!

Quote

The nation is still reeling after the outcome of the presidential election, and tensions are particularly high at Dre’s work. Much to his frustration, they haven’t been able to get anything done since election night – eight weeks ago. Meanwhile, Junior is dealing with a disenfranchised student body as class president, and when he is asked to deliver Martin Luther King Jr.’s “I Have a Dream” speech at school, Pops teaches him there is more to the speech than Junior thought.

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