S03.E08: Week 5, Night 1

[Quinn13]

Back in the day of Andi's Bachelorette season, I was not a fan of Josh at all so I get some sense of satisfaction at being right about what a douchebag I thought he was. However, he is way worse than I could have imagined. I always thought he was an intense, sweaty, cheesy mess but the temper and bro-ness of him is a huge turnoff. And his bravado on social media about the editing monkeys at work really show no sense of awareness whatsoever. 

And as much as I would love a Nick Bachelor season, I thought the clue about the next Bachelor was the Wes juggling many women storyline that has sprouted up. 

[waving feather]

I had no opinion on Lace until this episode. Wow, she has a mean streak. Run, Grant! She's shown that she will hurl cruel, hurtful words at you at the slightest disagreement and this is only after dating for 2 weeks! Imagine after marriage! And then she had the cheek to say she's glad Grant complements her. By complement, do you mean he always gives in to your mess? She was being disrespect to him in the pool, he didn't make a big hoohaa about it like Josh and just walked away from the situation because he's unhappy. Nothing wrong with that.

I think Amanda likes how domineering and aggressive Josh is, to be honest. If she doesn't see red flags by his actions and reactions by now, I don't know if she ever would. His biggest crime to me this episode wasn't him shouting at the group like a mad dog, but waking Amanda up in the middle of the night, when she was obviously tired and sleeping, just to huff and puff about some stupid and petty reason. Why couldn't he let her sleep and ask her about it in the morning? At that very early stage in the relationship, she should have dropped him immediately after that. Obviously, his ego trumps being a basic considerate human being.

I don't think the producers and the crew liked him that much as well, because he is getting a very bad edit.

[backformore]

That makeup tutorial by Ashley! So MANY steps to achieve a natural "beachy glow!". And yet, at the rose ceremony she looked more shiny and sweaty than any of the other women.

[thehepburn]

2 minutes ago, backformore said:

That makeup tutorial by Ashley! So MANY steps to achieve a natural "beachy glow!". And yet, at the rose ceremony she looked more shiny and sweaty than any of the other women.

Yeah, I was laughing thru that. She was using a lot of heavy industrial makeup and must look like a melting plastic doll in real life. And she sure was proud of all the free stuff she got for being a vile, nasty z-list celebrity.

[huahaha]

1 hour ago, Quinn13 said:

And as much as I would love a Nick Bachelor season, I thought the clue about the next Bachelor was the Wes juggling many women storyline that has sprouted up. 

I'm torn now. Wells had no game on JoJo's season, but I think he's shown Bachelor potential on BiP. I think Nick would be the perfect Right Reasons AND Wrong Reasons pick. On the other hand, I'll be glad if it's Luke so I can take a few seasons off.

[Artsda]

Amanda is really clueless, the fact Nick is saying what Andi wrote about him is true while Josh is claiming the entire book is fiction should be giving her major alarm bells. 

[Wings]

13 hours ago, CalamityBoPeep said:

He's isolating her from any counterbalancing influences. That creeps me out. I wish they'd both go have their dysfunctional relationship off my screen.

No, no, no keep it right there!  I look forward to more of that.  

3 hours ago, JenE4 said:

i did notice that during one of Nick's talking heads, it has him labeled as "Runner-up." I thought that was very odd, so maybe that was the clue to remind us that runner-ups have the opportunity to be the lead? They also had him diplomatically explain that while he enjoys spending time with Jen, she's not going to be The One.

I had that same thought and wish.  I would love to see him as the Bachelor.  

2 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

 

Carly has such a cool boho style on Instagram.  Why is she dressed so poorly on TV?  Are her Insta clothes just loaners for promo purposes?   That red thing looked like something Katarina Witt would have skated in circa 1989.  And regretted having worn it circa 1995. 

 

Ha ha ha ha ha!

---------------------------

Andi has been vindicated.   Jared will never find love until he drops Ashley from his life, completely.  So sorry to see Daniel go.  The twins leaving was a production choice, they served their purpose.  I don't get the tears.  

I love me some crazy, this is a good season!  

Edited August 30, 2016 by wings707

[Nowhere]

Josh is very controlling. I can't believe he got upset about Amanda going to bed without telling him. The poor girl is probably exhausted from the constant pounding she's probably getting every night. Maybe she needs a break from all the sweat. I couldn't stand how he slapped her butt and said "good talk". Fuck him!

This is going to end so badly for her. He is displaying very controlling and emotionally abusive behavior. I know because I've been where she is. At first you think he's just an alpha and a take charge kind of man. But eventually you realize he's even controlling your bedtime and you have no friends.

She is a single mother and probably somewhat vulnerable. He's the type that sniffs out the weak and vulnerable and completely overruns her life. She's easy prey.

And then SHE apologized to HIM for the fact that her friends were worried when they heard bad things about him. Why would she apologize to him? Then she promised she'll never question him and she'll always stand up for him. Wow. I know exactly what he's doing. And I now know why Andi cried so hard in her interview with CH after their breakup. They really make you feel like they are the only and best thing you will ever find, nobody will love you like they do, and they do their best to isolate you. I can see this coming for Amanda a mile away. 

Tell me why she wouldn't want to leave to get back to her daughter's when she already has the guy she wants. Oh yeah. Famewhore.

[Nowhere]

So sorry but I HATED how Jen talked down to Ashley. "I like the positivity. Wow." I know Ashley acts like a child but she isn't a child. Something about that really pissed me off. I guess because I can't stand that condescending tone under any circumstances. 

Everybody can act all surprised but Ashley isn't crying over Wells because he's not Jared. Just because she's obsessed with Jared doesn't mean she's obsessed with Wells. After seeing her on Million Dollar Matchmaker, it's very clear that she doesn't have a big problem with getting men to like her. She carries on good conversation and she's very smart and obviously pretty. Her problem is Jared. She'll never have another relationship no matter who likes her until she sees a therapist over this obsession. I'm not even saying that to be funny. She may need some Lithium. 

I'm sure she's had other dates and other men have been interested in her. Perhaps she's even liked them, just like she likes Wells. But they'll never be Jared. She probably won't shed a tear for any other man even if she feels rejected by them. Again, because nobody else will be Jared.

[alannaofdoom]

3 hours ago, JenE4 said:

i did notice that during one of Nick's talking heads, it has him labeled as "Runner-up." I thought that was very odd, so maybe that was the clue to remind us that runner-ups have the opportunity to be the lead? They also had him diplomatically explain that while he enjoys spending time with Jen, she's not going to be The One.

Now if you had told me that he was going to be the lead during ANY of his previous seasons, I would have Wrong Reason-watched the hell out of that! But Nick 100% got the redemption edit this show. He's proven to be likable, caring and supportive to his castmates, and has shown an ability to diplomatically and calmly express concerns to Josh without getting caught up in reacting to Josh's reactions. 

During the impressions at the end of the episode, Wells (doing his impression of Nick) says, "Going into this, I thought, me - Nick Viall - was the big Bachelor in paradise." Maybe that's also a clue? 

I didn't watch any of Nick's previous seasons, but he certainly comes off as a smart, mature person who has his shit together. I think I'd enjoy a season with him as the Bachelor - provided they don't just cast a bunch of 23-year-olds to vie for his attention. 

[Mu Shu]

25 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Amanda is really clueless, the fact Nick is saying what Andi wrote about him is true while Josh is claiming the entire book is fiction should be giving her major alarm bells. 

Nick is a master salesman.   I couldn't stand him prior,  but I'm team Nick all the way now. He has the added benefit of looking dry and clean, unlike greasy, sweaty, wild eyed Josh.

i bet he could win on Survivor, too.   I would definitely hire Nick to be my latex salesman.  

[backformore]

Quote

Amanda is really clueless, the fact Nick is saying what Andi wrote about him is true while Josh is claiming the entire book is fiction should be giving her major alarm bells. 

Yes, Andi wrote a fictionalized account of a woman going on a dating show - no names mentioned, and it's a "novel", so she can avoid lawsuits by any of the guys, and the show.  Though it's transparent who she writes about, Josh is hiding behind "It's FICTION!  it's not true!"  I'm sure she embellished, but Nick at least was owning his behavior, so she probably was spot on with depicting personalities.

Josh WAS being controlling.  and nothing was more telling than Amanda saying "I don't want to talk right now"  and him gong after her and pressuring her to talk to him.   When someone walks away and says the conversation is over, you need to respect their space and give them time to think.  

On the BAchelorette, Josh acted like he was the chosen one, very early on, and the other guys were just in his way - he had no use for them.   He's been acting the same way on this show  everybody should get out of his way.  HE decides who uses the "special bedroom" other couples can only use it if he allows it.  (I'd love to know more about the behind-the-scenes rules).  When HE has something to say, he doesn't go to where everyone else is - he SUMMONS them to where he is, and they all come running.  He demands answers,  and people don't just disperse and tell him to F off - they listen to him yell.  Viewed in a positive way, he has charisma, leadership, he draws people in and they listen to him.  But it wears thin after a while, when people realize it's all bluster and posturing, and that he's mostly full of shit.   They soon see that he's an arrogant asshole.   Amanda is falling into the same trap Andi did.  When people warn you about a guy not being sincere, you need to take a step back and evaluate the evidence, not ask him.  Because he will lie.

[alannaofdoom]

Ridiculous though she is, that Ashley-and-Wells date was such a breath of fresh air amid all the liquor-fueled drama. I mean: “We have lots to… taco bout.” CALL ME, WELLS. I love a good terrible pun. 

“I’m really bad at having to flirt when it comes down to crunch time. [taco shell crunch]" CALL ME, EDITORS. Let’s work out a deal where instead of gross moans, you dub in that biting-into-a-taco-shell noise over Josh and Amanda’s egregious PDA. 

And now, excuse me, I have to pour one (bottle of maple syrup) out for Daniel, our beautiful golden Canada goose. 

Edited August 30, 2016 by alannaofdoom

[Kbilly]

Josh's "good talk" after waking her up to make sure she didn't want to sleep was suuuuuuch a dick move. Then the next day his "Next time you pull a Houdini act..." What act? The act of going to bed? So freaking controlling. And it will not get better when she needs to devote attention to her children, he won't be able to handle that.

Did he say his dog got chemo every day? Really? I love dogs but him justifying his shitty behavior with "My dog was fighting cancer and I couldn't go anywhere to meet chicks for six months!" made me laugh because it was ridiculous.

Ashley is the absolute worst and I am counting the seconds until I never have to see her again. How she began that terrible, cruel, selfish conversation with Calia with that cheerful faux-friendly "Hey Caila!" was just disgusting. I can't handle her delusions! If Jared doesn't leave with Calia or grow a pair and tell Ashley to back the eff off in the least delicate way possible, he deserves to be handcuffed to her for an eternity.

[backformore]

About Jared -   He has two choices with Ashley.   Either cut her out of his life 100%, no friendship, no social media, no texting, no holiday cards or roses on her birthday.     OR - Marry her.      With Ashley, there will be no middle ground.  ANY attention from him she sees as PROOF that he loves her.  he can give in, surrender, and have the Jasmine/Aladdin wedding in the Magic Kingdom, or run away, change his name, and go into witness protection.  Choose one, Jared!  

[Padma]

I wanted Nick to be the Bachelor after Andi's season but half the viewers (more?) hated him, and I knew it would never happen.  I also thought he came across well on Kaitlyn's season (dodged a bullet there!) but, again, somehow wound up very widely disliked.

It must be nice, after all that, to feel this time around he's coming across really well to most people. Maybe, with the hints you all picked up on, he has a chance as TB? Personally, I'd like to see that as he's articulate, fun, seems kind, and would actually be looking for a real relationship. I think he has what it takes to be one of the best bachelors.

Nick would also give us a bit older bachelor and hopefully some more mature young women with more smarts. It would be kind of fun to see how someone who wound up ALMOST being chosen twice would "play the game" himself. It would be quite a tribute to his RL personality if, after two seasons of unflattering edits, production actually had come to like him enough behind the scenes to have him as TB.

[woodscommaelle]

43 minutes ago, wings707 said:

I would love to see him as the Bachelor.  

He's so schmoozy.  Dislike.  He gives me the creeps.  Always has.

//ok, done talking about Nick//

[threebluestars]

Nick has really become enjoyable to me. Paradise has shown a lot of his good qualities. He's given good advice, been quite level-headed, is self aware, and it seems most everyone really likes being around him. Can't believe I am enjoying him as I couldn't stand him after Andi's season.

I've always hated Josh though. This show has made him look 10 times worse than before. He could've done himself so many favours by not appearing on BiP.

Lace is self medicating like crazy. I feel bad for her because she clearly has some major issues and this isn't the place to work them out.

[GracieK]

I'm loving Nick.. I think he'd be a fantastic Bachelor.  He's mature, thoughtful, and sensible.  When situations erupt and devolve into pure drama, e.g. the Josh situation.. rather than shouting louder to make his voice heard, or even worrying about proving he's right, he just calmly and logically explains the facts of the situation, and you can tell he's confident that the facts speak for themselves.  He was honest in his opinion when the twins sought him out, and he was honest with Josh when confronted on it.  I'd love to see him in the role of Bachelor with the women chasing him.. and he gets to be the one who chooses.  

And I'm even more convinced that some of the drama on this show is highly engineered.  I noticed one scene where Ashley went and sat next to Caila at the pool.. I think they were hanging out like that when Wells showed up?  Anyway, it certainly didn't seem there was any bad blood between them at that point and this was supposedly after Ashley claiming to not want to speak to Caila anymore.  

Edited August 30, 2016 by GracieK
For some reason I kept referring to Josh as Nick.

[SassyCat]

I remember when watching Andi's season, that Josh was stand offish with her until the bitter end when he knew he had to show some interest or possibly be sent packing. He threw her a crumb, saying yes he was "falling" for her or something to that effect, and she just lit up and believed it because she wanted to. His body language never was saying he really wanted her. She, from the get go it seems to me, picked him out as the one most physically desirable (to her) on night one.

She wanted him out of an attraction based on lust. He faked it because it gave him more spotlight time. I say his whole relationship with And I was based on a lie, and I knew it wouldn't last long. Of course he had to bully her out of his life, that his personality. Big bully. A big sweat stain of a bully stomping around neanderthally. He a Chad in a different sweat suit.

I do think he really is attracted to Amanda tho, and my advice to her is to run away as fast as she can. If anyone ever "got mad" at me for needing some sleep, they would find out that my need for human sleep, is not negotiable, but a relationship with them is, and that their selfishness negotiated themselves right out of my life.

Had to take his dog to chemo everyday for 6 months. Yeah sure. HA! Did he wheelchair the dog around all day "taking care of her" while the dog wasn't hooked up to DAILY chemotherapy in between these DAILY for 6 months, sessions? What a lame excuse for anything. 

Amanda if you are reading this now, take all our observations to heart, for your children's sake at least. He's a control freak and won't allow you free thought. He will crush your spirit and you will feel yourself dying a little bit at a time everyday. A horrible way to live. He will be your biggest nay-sayer. He will put down your smallest thought, feeling, or dream trying to make your everything insignificant and unworthy of his approval.

And that my dear, is my take on Josh, the human sweat stain.

[booboopbedoo]

Run Amanda!

Does he hold you by the throat when you have sex? Are you that desperate for a man that you overlook a potential threat to your kids??

Ashley is ruining the show-get rid of her please! It has stopped being funny

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

I wanted Nick to be the Bachelor after Andi's season but half the viewers (more?) hated him, and I knew it would never happen.  

So did I and if nothing else, I guarantee he would have been more interesting than Farmer Chris. 

[saber5055]

I was gone last night so came here to see what I missed. I really wanted to see Josh vs. Nick. Maybe I can find it online somewhere. Meanwhile, this from our Judy cracked me up, because I totally know what a wet Scottie looks like: "Lace's eyelashes, though, now that's some note worthy "make-up." I think she's wearing three pairs at once and all three go in different directions, like a wet Scottish terrier."

[Wandering Snark]

57 minutes ago, Kbilly said:

If Jared doesn't leave with Calia or grow a pair and tell Ashley to back the eff off in the least delicate way possible, he deserves to be handcuffed to her for an eternity.

Good point, the problem here is that he's already cuffed, and it's Ashley that has the keys to the cuffs. She's not about to let him go yet...

Also kissing is fine, but not as a substitute for conversation Jared. What do you actually know about Cialis? I mean she's not Ashley and that is a good thing but beside that? I'd have been sooo annoyed with him that you finally get a breath to be together with no Ashley around and all he wants to do is kiss up and down my arms. She should really say "I'm going home. If you'd care to continue this in a world without Ashley give me a call."

As for the poor decision making of Amanda, the last thing you want to do is always be walking on eggshells and making excuses for someone with anger issues. Sure Bruce Banner is good looking and smart but he's still eventually going to go all "HULK SMAAAASSSHHHH!!!" on you. Sacrificing little things daily leaves you a shell with no will or energy to break free. He'll want you to move to where HE lives/has friends and you will leave yours behind so you have no support team. Sure you can cry to them on the phone until he turns that around as a slight to him ignoring him to talk on the phone.

[Vinyasa]

Quote

That red thing looked like something Katarina Witt would have skated in circa 1989.  And regretted having worn it circa 1995. 

I was trying to think of how to describe what ever that was, but you nailed it!

Gosh, Carly can't you get a decent haircut and find a color?

I'm tired of these BIP recycles.  Can't they find new people for each season?

Edited August 30, 2016 by Vinyasa

[StatisticalOutlier]

13 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

And also I thought Jami had terrible hair and yet another unfortunate name spelling...

At least it wasn't "Jaime."  I once had an extended email conversation with someone named Jaime about a volunteer position, and when I showed up I was a girl who pronounced her name "jay-mee" and now a Hispanic man who pronounced his name "hie-may."

 

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm a fashion moron. I barely notice the clothes, but Carly's red dress /shorts/ gloves combo was one of the oddest things I've ever seen.  She looked like a little girl on Halloween dressed as a "fancy lady."

When she positioned herself on that lounge thing, there was a layer of beige something visible on her upper leg where the red part hiked up.  I thought maybe Spanx, but wouldn't that make the area where they stopped be like sausage?  (I have no personal experience with Spanx.)  And Evan's kisses are gross.  It's like the others got advice on how to have kisses that look good on TV or in movies and Evan's just doing what comes naturally.

 

46 minutes ago, alannaofdoom said:

I didn't watch any of Nick's previous seasons, but he certainly comes off as a smart, mature person who has his shit together. I think I'd enjoy a season with him as the Bachelor - provided they don't just cast a bunch of 23-year-olds to vie for his attention. 

I couldn't stand him in the previous seasons.  I think his hair was different (and more offensive), and he had a permanent smirk crossed with a heart-shaped mouth.  He also wore red pedal-pushers.  But I like him on BiP, much to my horror.

 

20 minutes ago, SassyCat said:

Had to take his dog to chemo everyday for 6 months. Yeah sure. HA! Did he wheelchair the dog around all day "taking care of her" while the dog wasn't hooked up to DAILY chemotherapy in between these DAILY for 6 months, sessions? What a lame excuse for anything. 

And just how does a dog "battle" cancer?  I've never liked that nomenclature even when it comes to people, but a dog?  Is the dog lying there, wearing a head scarf and barfing from the chemo thinking, "This is horrible and I just want to die but I have to keep going for my family; I am NOT going to let cancer take me"? 

 

It looks to me like BiP is a young person's game, if for no other reason than the heat and humidity.  I can kind of take both during the day, especially when there's shade and a pool and I'm just sitting around, but in my dotage, I'm completely incapable of sleeping if it's hot and especially hot and humid if all I have is a fan.  I've seen these people sweating up a storm in the evenings, but it never occurred to me that they don't have air conditioning in their rooms.  But when Josh protested that he had dibs on the boom boom room because he'd put a fan in there, I snapped to attention.  Then I started noticing the fans about 6" from people's beds and...no way.

[OldWiseOne]

Quote

@yorklee2 in regards to the Cosmo articles, I only know that Ashley I writes one.  She has alluded several times that Calia is not what she seems and that not everybody liked her.   Ashley also wrote that Calia will "backstab" her later in the season.   But I take everything with a huge grain of margarita salt.

I'd be willing to bet that Ashley's version of being backstabbed is Caila standing up for herself, or possibly telling Jared what a total twatwaffle Ashley has been to her.

[backformore]

Caila liking Jared and wanting to date him after the show is "backstabbing" as far a Ashley is concerned

Edited August 30, 2016 by backformore

[huahaha]

1 hour ago, Nowhere said:

So sorry but I HATED how Jen talked down to Ashley. "I like the positivity. Wow." I know Ashley acts like a child but she isn't a child. Something about that really pissed me off. I guess because I can't stand that condescending tone under any circumstances. 

In Jen's defense, Ashley's behavior definitely qualifies as "unusual circumstances." I don't think I could hold in a slightly snarky reply either after all the histrionics.

[Nowhere]

4 minutes ago, huahaha said:

In Jen's defense, Ashley's behavior definitely qualifies as "unusual circumstances." I don't think I could hold in a slightly snarky reply either after all the histrionics.

If I thought she was being snarky, it would have been funny. Jen wasn't being snarky though. That was genuine. Treating her like a baby and coddling her isn't going to help. 

I just want Ashley to go home.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Nowhere

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Ashley Finally Moves On (To An Even More Elevated Plane of Crazy) On Bachelor In Paradise

Just when Jared thinks he has slipped the Ashley I. yoke, she comes roaring back with more mayhem. How did all the other players rank this week?

[SassyCat]

When Wells and Ashley were on that date, I could see why Ashley has trouble forming a romantic relationship. She's just too much. Too much everything. Talks too much. Wears too much unnecessary make up, which she doesn't need, she's pretty enough without it. Tries  hard to keep a conversation going that will revolve around her her her and what she wants, likes, etc. Seems to not understand the world does not revolve around princess Ashley.

Any man would be terrified of taking her virginity as far as I'm concerned because she would be too dramatic after handing over her prize, which would mean she owns you now. She gave the ultimate princess prize and Dont you forget it! Ever! Self centered and self absorbed to the hilt.

She needs a man with a very strong personality and sense of self (not Jared) to be able to "handle" her in a relationship. She really needs to tame it down a bit, allota bit, if she is to ever find someone willing to take her dramatics into their sphere of romantic consideration.

Every little thing isn't about you, Ashley.

[Nowhere]

^^^ Maybe she needs a little Josh in her life.

[SassyCat]

2 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

^^^ Maybe she needs a little Josh in her life.

Lol, yeah, I thought that too, but wouldn't wish him on anyone. 

[SassyCat]

Carley, that Evan must surely be smitten with you. That red thing you wore was insanely ugly. Come on girls! Someone should have told her it was awful, and lent her something else to wear if she didn't have something else for that night, or at least fitted some sheet over her, toga-style instead of that "fancy lady" atrocity.

[Wandering Snark]

That was definitely a "you're wearing that on national TV??" moment. I love that it was dubbed "fancy lady". I would like to see a test between Ashley, Amanda and Evan measuring who is the most blinded to/by the person they are with. I think it's actually Evan, in a squeaker.

[Selkie75]

I have not posted on here in so long but felt compelled to after reading the other posts, and just feeling surprisingly unsettled by what has happened on BIP the last two weeks.  I can usually watch reality shows with many thousands of grains of salt but Ashley, and some of other cast members' behavior has been so ugly the past couple of weeks.

I've never fully understood the amount of hate Caila has gotten since Ben's season. It may be that Caila has qualities that remind me of myself - mainly being reserved and cautious, overthinking. But to see how she has been treated, to see this strange group think and scapegoating happening, is just disconcerting. We keep hearing that the cast are bothered by Caila's indecision - after one date. I'm more bewildered by the engagements that happen after 18 days than someone who wants to be cautious after only knowing Jared for less than 24 hours. Somewhere along the twisted path this show has created, caution became disinterest when it is just not so. But this this does not seem to be a standard for all, as we have Carly (literally) vomiting after kissing Evan and now everyone is all about what a sweet couple they are. Not sure why her indecision has been deemed acceptable but someone else does it and they are treated the way Caila has been treated. We also keep hearing other cast members applaud Ashley's honesty, how authentic she is. We should all strive to be more honest and authentic and generally speaking, I greatly appreciate these qualities. But to be cruel under the guise of authenticity is just another form of bullying and certainly should not be enabled. I felt so sad watching Caila during her conversation with Ashley last night - she just seemed defeated and in some ways, broken down by everything that has gone on. Shame on Ashley for looking in her in the eye, after doing everything she could to smear her, and say she felt bad for her. Ashley repeats ad nauseum how concerned she is for Jared, that she is looking out for him - then be a mature woman for one, talk to him about your concerns, and let him make up his own mind, like an adult without needing to manipulate.  We're all very aware that there is editing to produce three hours of television but regardless of that, Ashley's behavior is her behavior and what is shows is someone who is obsessed, and willing to do whatever necessary to ensure that he never has a successful relationship. The constant denigration of Caila, the constant misguided affirmations from friends of this genuinely ugly behavior is just baffling to me. The best thing for Ashley is to not be coddled anymore, to be called on her behavior, as Nick has done a few times. Jared should do some serious stepping up as well - if you do not want to be with Ashley, then stop giving her reasons to think that there is more there than friendship.

[Seawolff]

Ok. I don't think Caila buys Ashley's story one little bit.  I think she chose her questions to Ashley very wisely. Even though Asley approached Caila with a plan to slyly undermine her, Caila very calmly saw right through her and posed specific questions in order to confirm the realities of the situation.  Information that she gained:

1. Ashley will always be an insincere saboteur who poisons any effort Jared makes towards a relationship with Caila. 

2. Heartbreaking waste of time to come on the show, heartbreaking to think (against all rational reality and what you've been told by Jared) that you are a "home wrecker."

3. You don't yet know whether the circumstance and editing has ruined you on national television but, enough of this sickness. Ashley didn't get a rose and she was allowed to run back in and has achieved the goal of preventing you from becoming so closely attached to Jared that you are willing to put up with her for the rest of your natural born days. Whew. Bullet dodged.

Josh:

It sure felt like Josh would have been ok if anyone went up to the room and only claimed it when he saw that Nick was the one going.

Josh seems to be one of those people who -in his own mind- transfers his negative attributes to others. Josh is the only one listing the negative things about himself. Seriously. Others have only advised Amanda to get to know Josh beyond the obvious romantic jibber jabber. This is what Izzy wanted with Vinny and what Grant is trying for with Lace. Granted, it is difficult if not impossible to become apprised of someone's character when you are already romantically/physically active.

So, Josh is actually putting words in others mouths. He is so paranoid that he is listing all of the things he imagines others are saying and he goes on and on and on assuming and attributing the worst without bothering to listen to what is actually being said. With problems like his it must have been awful to have his "ex" write a book exposing it all. He is obviously super sensitive about it, and I can see how he would want to press to talk about it and be aggressive about addressing it to the group. It's all an effort to get it over with NOW. He wants everything NOW. Who told him that achieving the goal was more important than how you achieve it? Unfortunately he is perpetuating the problem by trying to start a lasting relationship by simply isolating himself and Amanda from the rest of the world. He also is showing that his need for being right supersedes his ability to be nice. He asks Nick to say something and then jumps on the first half of a sentence that Nick barely begins to say and turns it into a huge deal before finding out the rest of what Nick Was getting at. It must be inconceivable to him that anyone could have an idea that took more than six words to convey.

Not only that, but Josh seems stuck on the idea that Nick is sour grapes over losing Amanda to him. Nick has repeatedly stated that it is not about his relationship with a girl he went on one date with. Josh talks over Nick. I really hate it when someone asks an accusatory question and then talks over you and accuses more when you try answer. Josh doesn't want to hear that Nick isn't interested in Amanda and that this isn't about bulls competing for mating time. He doesn't seem to have a clue about how many ways humans get to know each other. When asked, Nick admits it was irritating to have this guy who has issues with you over a previous perceived "competition" show up and grab whatever it is he thinks you have. Nick is hoping that Amanda and Josh have something real for their own sakes. Josh is so busy claiming himself to be the winner that he is unable to hear that.

That Josh is satisfied once Amanda says she won't question him is deplorable. He should want her to question him. He should want her to go into this with eyes wide open. He should open his eyes too. They can't possibly think that they could make a commitment without spending time seeing how it works with her children. With her EX.

 

I've got to stop.

[Wings]

6 hours ago, JenE4 said:

i did notice that during one of Nick's talking heads, it has him labeled as "Runner-up." I thought that was very odd, so maybe that was the clue to remind us that runner-ups have the opportunity to be the lead? They also had him diplomatically explain that while he enjoys spending time with Jen, she's not going to be The One.

Now if you had told me that he was going to be the lead during ANY of his previous seasons, I would have Wrong Reason-watched the hell out of that! But Nick 100% got the redemption edit this show. He's proven to be likable, caring and supportive to his castmates, and has shown an ability to diplomatically and calmly express concerns to Josh without getting caught up in reacting to Josh's reactions. 

What have been the other clues, I missed them!  Damn.  

[Mu Shu]

I just have to add that the Ashley as Virgin Mary intro is just stupid.   Overly made up duck lipped moron as VM is ironic, I guess?  Try getting one vial instead of two.  You look like a bunch of bees stung your mouth.  And I think lip injections usually look good.   Ashley just looks like a damn fool.  

Jared is such a little sniveling weasel.   Can't believe I actually thought this weak loser was hot.  

I know most of us have tongues, and we need our tongues, but seeing Evan use his tongue made me wish none of us ever had tongues. 

Was Grant wearing Manpri jeggings?  

Edited August 30, 2016 by Mu Shu

[saber5055]

Quote: "And just how does a dog "battle" cancer? I've never liked that nomenclature even when it comes to people, but a dog? Is the dog lying there, wearing a head scarf and barfing from the chemo thinking, "This is horrible and I just want to die but I have to keep going for my family; I am NOT going to let cancer take me"? " I had a dog with lymphoma that I put on chemo, which extended his life for about a year and was an alternative to putting him to sleep, the normal reaction owners have when faced with their dog going to die. I got a prescription for human chemo pills, which made the pharmacist give me doe eyes when he filled it, thinking the drugs were for me or another human. Dogs on chemo do NOT lose hair nor do they vomit or become sick. Another cancer dog I know of went to university for liquid chemo treatments. That prolonged the dog's life but eventually that dog also passed away. Again, no hair loss, no vomiting. But most importantly, chemo is NOT GIVEN DAILY. Bottom line: Josh is full of BS. I know ... surprise.

[huahaha]

11 minutes ago, wings707 said:

What have been the other clues, I missed them!  Damn.  

Mike Fleiss has been posting clues on his Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/fleissmeister.

Most point to Luke (like a picture of Yoda with a cowboy star in the background). I only hold out hope for Nick because that would make watching so much more interesting.

[Verbeen]

Lace is a beautiful girl but whoever attached those ugly hair extensions should be shot.  The "ombre" hair is so obviously fake and she is clearly uncomfortable with it.  She doesn't know what to do with that extra hair, always fussing with it.  How she managed for five weeks with that ratty hair not to mention the three-inch fake eyelashes is beyond me.  I saw her on After Paradise with her beautiful, shorter natural hair - it looked so much better.

[Wings]

I don't see a star in the back.  How is Luke like Yoda?  ETA.  Shit I see the stars.  More so the strings and Luke plays the guitar. 

Edited August 30, 2016 by wings707

[huahaha]

3 minutes ago, wings707 said:

I don't see a star in the back.  How is Luke like Yoda? 

The stars in the background may or may not be anything. Yoda is Luke Skywalker's mentor in Star Wars.

Fleiss believes the reveal will be on par with The Usual Suspects. Everyone else thinks he's getting his ideas from a rusty birdcage. (Hat tip to Seth Meyers.)

[olivia1]

 Caila showed Jared a bruise on her butt and said he did it the night before.  Did I miss something? All I remember is them making out in a nasty pond. 

[threebluestars]

I don't hate Caila, but she does seem to have this air of perfection that's off-putting. But last night, when she was showing emotion FINALLY, I really felt for her. You could tell she knew that stepping back and leaving was exactly what Ashley wanted (and probably warned Jared about), but you could see she knew dealing with it was ... stupid. No one wants that. And I believe she thinks Jared is just as much to blame, but it's not like she can force anything.

It was so refreshing to see her having negative feelings and showing them, because she seems very much the type of person to plaster on a smile no matter what and pretend things are fine. Not just to others, but to the camera. I think that hiding of her true feelings is what has made it hard for me to connect with her.

Edited August 30, 2016 by arieswriting
How the fuck does Jared even spell his name? I don't know. I'm going with Jared.

[backformore]

Quote

The constant denigration of Caila, the constant misguided affirmations from friends of this genuinely ugly behavior is just baffling to me. The best thing for Ashley is to not be coddled anymore, to be called on her behavior, as Nick has done a few times. Jared should do some serious stepping up as well - if you do not want to be with Ashley, then stop giving her reasons to think that there is more there than friendship.

@selkie75  I must have missed it -   Ashley hates Caila, because of jealousy.   Drunken Lace said in passing "I hate her".   That is the only time I am aware of the other people being mean to Caila.   What are you referring to?

I like Caila (and bristle when people spell her name to be like a medication) I can see her wrestling with what to do.   She doesn't want to play this "game"  any more, but leaving will mean Ashley can then claim "VICTORY"  over her.  (see Jared!  She LEFT you!  she doesn't love you like I do!)  I think Caila sincerely likes Jared, but realizes that until he tells Ashley to fuck off, he's not really available to date.

[thejuicer]

After Lace had her meltdown and Grants pulled her aside to say something about her acting like that because she was "scared" - no dear. She is not scared. She's an asshole, and an alcoholic. And a catty jealous bitch based on how she talked to Caila. Is this the same girl who left The Bachelor early to "work on herself"? You have a long way to go girl. 

What can I say about Josh that hasn't been said yet.  Comparing him to Gaston would be far too kind. I think Andi is thanking her lucky stars while laughing all the way to the bank.  Good for her for getting out. 

[jade.black]

This is like a psychologist's dream (note: I am not a psychologist). Lace is a mess. I think she sabotages herself (and yes, is an alcoholic). I get the feeling she plays this game with every guy, showing them she's attracted and then pushing them away. She knew Ben for all of one night before pulling him aside to tell him off for not making eye contact with her. She kept walking away from Chad to make him come to her. This is what she does, and maybe she never has had anyone as attentive as Grant who keeps coming back through all of her bullshit. There's a good chance she doesn't know how to handle it or doesn't think she deserves it. She cried her eyes out right after practically breaking up with him... and not in front of anyone like she wanted attention either, in private.

Speaking of emotional issues, I'm done with Ashley. She was awful during that conversation with Caila. "Does anyone honestly think Jared is leaving Paradise with anyone but me?" Yeah, not if you're going to scare off any woman interested in him. Not that he isn't totally at fault. If he doesn't leave with Caila then he deserves to spend his life with Ashley. No self-respecting woman is going to put up with that. Also, the most crazy chick disconcerting thing Ashley does is laugh her way through her tears and bitchy comments. 

And finally Josh, who I despise. I dated a guy who was possessive and controlling and temperamental for two and a half years. It never gets better. Amanda was being nice. It sounds like they take the sex suite every single night, and she was offering to let Nick and Jen use it. Josh basically acted like someone was stealing HIS property as if he had some claim to it. Possessive. Then he freaks out because Amanda didn't tell him she was going to bed?! That "Good talk" and walk away abrupt end to their conversation after HE woke her up was such a typical controlling move, and I actually give her major points for just rolling over and going back to sleep instead of chasing after him. I believe anything Andi said about the guy. What a total dick. And then being so upset that anyone dares to question him instead of just actually trying to prove to her that he IS a good guy. Everything he says in their "intimate" conversations comes off like a line, and it's all done while firmly grabbing her face. Ugh. And don't get me started on the dog with cancer. He's looking for pity and it's the most ridiculous reason too- it's not a human in the hospital, it's a dog at home who isn't going to be cured or helped by you sitting in the house all day. I say this as someone who adores animals. It's just an excuse Josh can use to be forgiven for his behavior.

Think how pissed Josh would be if Nick were named Bachelor?! I'd love Nick as Bach for many reasons, but it would be worth it also for that one alone.