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S03.E08: Week 5, Night 1

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6 minutes ago, backformore said:

@selkie75  I must have missed it -   Ashley hates Caila, because of jealousy.   Drunken Lace said in passing "I hate her".   That is the only time I am aware of the other people being mean to Caila.   What are you referring to?

I like Caila (and bristle when people spell her name to be like a medication) I can see her wrestling with what to do.   She doesn't want to play this "game"  any more, but leaving will mean Ashley can then claim "VICTORY"  over her.  (see Jared!  She LEFT you!  she doesn't love you like I do!)  I think Caila sincerely likes Jared, but realizes that until he tells Ashley to fuck off, he's not really available to date.

I too was curious about this post.. I haven't noticed anyone else other than Ashley and the comment by Lace in regards to treating her badly.  There certainly could be instances of the others affirming Ashley's opinions of Caila but if so, they've gone over my head.  I, admittedly, am not a big fan of Caila.. I just don't see much depth there and I believe her indecisiveness comes from an unrealistic expectation of perfection.  But she seems nice enough, and I haven't noticed others being cruel towards her.  

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I just want Ashley to go home.

I want to understand why she was allowed to come back after she didn't get a rose.

 Do they just create new rules when they feel like it?

Edited by Vinyasa
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>>Do they just create new rules when they feel like it?

Yes. Happens on TB as well.

>>The stars in the background may or may not be anything. Yoda is Luke Skywalker's mentor in Star Wars.

Luke's a war vet. In the Yoda pic, I think they were going for the good ol' "Stars and Stripes".

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Quote: "Caila showed Jared a bruise on her butt and said he did it the night before. Did I miss something? All I remember is them making out in a nasty pond." Jared had her pushed up against a rocky outcropped, and her legs were both raised up, knees out of the water, with Jared pressed against her. All I could think of was, that's the "we're doing it standing up" position. So yeah, that butt bruise totally could be "his" fault.

I meant "rock outcrop" in the post above. Sorry guys, but I cannot use formatting or even edit my posts. Can't put spaces between paragraphs ... nothing.

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4 hours ago, Nowhere said:

So sorry but I HATED how Jen talked down to Ashley. "I like the positivity. Wow." I know Ashley acts like a child but she isn't a child. Something about that really pissed me off. I guess because I can't stand that condescending tone under any circumstances. 

I agree.  I have a feeling I could  get a really enjoyable TV-hate thing going for Jen, if I was given half a chance.  Make her The Bachelorette!  One thing I noticed on both of her shows was that she simply  can not  control her disdainful looking mouth movements.  She's either twisting it or licking her teeth during every rose ceremony.

I absolutely love my dogs and would go a long way to prolong life in any of my pets, just ask my diabetic cat, but I did a giant, laughing eye roll over Josh and his chemo dog.  You know that man has led a very self-centered life when he can't get over himself for taking care of his own dog.

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24 minutes ago, adhoc said:

>>Do they just create new rules when they feel like it?

Yes. Happens on TB as well.

>>The stars in the background may or may not be anything. Yoda is Luke Skywalker's mentor in Star Wars.

Luke's a war vet. In the Yoda pic, I think they were going for the good ol' "Stars and Stripes".

Well there you have it.  It is Luke.  sigh  Another boring season.  Well they all are; the format is stale but they need to get more interesting leads.  

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Glad to know more about dogs and chemo from the posts here, I always admire people who show commitment to their animals, even though its expensive, time-consuming, etc.

Well...almost always. Josh keeps talking about it like he's some kind of martyr--me, me, me.  What about the dog? It is heartbreaking to nurse an animal who is suffering and can't really understand all that's going on and you can't explain it to them. You'd think he might be actually feeling something about that, but every time he mentions it it's just "Aren't I an amazing human being for giving up my life to do that?" (My guess is #1 it wasn't 6 months and #2 his mother probably did most of the work.) And I still am wondering about the outcome. He doesn't seem sad, so I'm assuming the dog lived. If I'd spent 6 months working for my dog to be cancer-free, I wouldn't just go off for a month or two to Mexico, seemingly without a care. He expresses no ongoing curiosity about the dog. What was the outcome?

In any case, he's an obnoxious, self-absorbed control-freak. I don't know why I thought he was fine on Andi's season--I guess he was on good behavior and came across well because the other guys liked him.

Why should he feel entitled to the sex suite? Wouldn't a normal couple realize others would like some privacy there, too, and were equally entitled to it?  It's really not his and Amanda's to "give". Very strange.

ETA: I guess you're right about Luke Skywalker and Yoda. Too bad....

Edited by Padma
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Why did Amanda and Josh have to give Jen and Nick permission to use the hook-up room?

This confused me because originally I thought it was the only place with a double bed - the other rooms have singles or bunk beds if I remember right. But then when Josh woke up Amanda, she was sleeping in a queen size bed. So I don't know why he didn't just sleep there. Maybe it is the only room that has a door, while the queen she was sleeping in was in a room with the others. But regardless, they shouldn't be laying claim to it and Nick/Jen really didn't seem to care, they just wanted it sorted out because they wanted to sleep and it was Josh making a big deal (another red flag - him lying to Amanda that everyone was ~freaking out about it). 

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She has alluded several times that Calia is not what she seems and that not everybody liked her.   Ashley also wrote that Calia will "backstab" her later in the season.   But I take everything with a huge grain of margarita salt.

I was reading on another board that it seemed like the other BiP contestants were on Ashley's side last week and I just don't get it. Possibly because I don't know how much of a relationship Ashley had with Jared and Caila in the last year - it seems infrequent, at least with Caila. And as much as I normally say, if everyone doesnt like you its probably you, when it's Lace and Ashley and these people not liking you... Caila is probably better off. 

I hated the way Ashley was speaking to Caila at the end. Caila is in tears saying its hard to attempt a relationship with someone with their ex breathing down their necks and Ashley is all "yeah... you should feel bad" Not, you're right I'm in the way. Not, yeah this is really awkward. But yes, YOU should feel bad that I am also here (on my own free will and force since I was supposed to go home weeks ago). Though I did crack up with Caila's "loves you like a sister" burn. 

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16 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I think there is more of a need for Grant to be taken aside and warned about Lace than Amanda warned about Josh. At least Amanda and Josh appear to be into each other. Lace is just a bitch and Grant deserves much better. She did totally disrespect him, and then he is the one who turns around and apologies to her? They are only a few weeks into a relationship - if it is this much work now Grant, it is only going to get worse. 

I don't feel sorry for Grant (I tend to believe the rumors about him), but I thought Lace was an ass from episode one.  While the bulk of the focus was on Chad's behavior, I really thought Lace's was on par with his.   She's been prickly from the beginning, so not surprised it's escalating.  I don't know why Grant is okay with it.

One thing about Lace - I don't think she's suffering from low self-esteem or thinks she doesn't deserve Grant.  She's probably used to treating people the way she does, and for whatever reason, people (men) tolerate it.  

Caila continues to have great hair in spite of the heat and humidity.  How is this happening?

Confused why Jami's entrance was when most people were asleep or still in their rooms. 

1 hour ago, thejuicer said:

After Lace had her meltdown and Grants pulled her aside to say something about her acting like that because she was "scared" - no dear. She is not scared. She's an asshole, and an alcoholic.

This.

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9 minutes ago, weightyghost said:

But then when Josh woke up Amanda, she was sleeping in a queen size bed. So I don't know why he didn't just sleep there. Maybe it is the only room that has a door,

Or maybe it does have a door and Josh just can't do his best work without an audience.

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I have changed my mind about Jared and Ashley.  I think that Chris Harrison should arrange an on-the-fly wedding on the beach for them.  If Jared isn't willing to send a clear message to Ashley, and leaves Caila to talk to Ashley, then he deserves a lifetime of Ashley.  If he is enjoying the attention so much, well, let's make sure he has plenty of opportunities to enjoy Ashley's attention.  And, here's the best part, they would finally be off of the Bachelor shows so we would not longer have to watch any of it.

Yes, they may end up on another show, but I wouldn't feel as compelled to watch it as I am these shows.  So, as a member of Team Ashley and Jared I wish them a lifetime of obsessive attention.

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5 hours ago, backformore said:

Yes, Andi wrote a fictionalized account of a woman going on a dating show - no names mentioned, and it's a "novel", so she can avoid lawsuits by any of the guys, and the show.  Though it's transparent who she writes about, Josh is hiding behind "It's FICTION!  it's not true!"  I'm sure she embellished, but Nick at least was owning his behavior, so she probably was spot on with depicting personalities.

Just FYI, the book isn't fiction or a novel, despite what Josh tries to insist. It's sold as a "tell-all" and is in first person. Andi doesn't name names (she does something like name Nick "bachelor 24", and Josh "bachelor 25," but the readers all can easily figure out who she's talking about.

https://www.amazon.com/Its-Not-Okay-Turning-Heartbreak/dp/1501132466/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1472597831&sr=1-1&keywords=andi+dorfman

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50 minutes ago, Padma said:

And I still am wondering about the outcome. He doesn't seem sad, so I'm assuming the dog lived. If I'd spent 6 months working for my dog to be cancer-free, I wouldn't just go off for a month or two to Mexico, seemingly without a care. He expresses no ongoing curiosity about the dog. What was the outcome?

That is what I am wondering. What happened to the dog? Either it got better and as soon as it did Josh decided "good, now I can go get laid on the beach" or it died and Josh thought "good, now I can go get laid on the beach". Either way, he doesn't seem very choked up about it.

I wouldn't mind Amanda's ignoring pretty much every person she knows there saying she should be careful about Josh if she didn't have kids, but come on! You have to be more careful when you have kids. You are considering bringing this asshole into your kids lives. You better hope they know his rules.

I am having a hard time deciding who I despise more, Ashley, Josh or Lace. I find all three of them pretty useless.

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2 hours ago, backformore said:

@selkie75  I must have missed it -   Ashley hates Caila, because of jealousy.   Drunken Lace said in passing "I hate her".   That is the only time I am aware of the other people being mean to Caila.   What are you referring to?

 

2 hours ago, GracieK said:

I too was curious about this post.. I haven't noticed anyone else other than Ashley and the comment by Lace in regards to treating her badly.  There certainly could be instances of the others affirming Ashley's opinions of Caila but if so, they've gone over my head.  I, admittedly, am not a big fan of Caila.. I just don't see much depth there and I believe her indecisiveness comes from an unrealistic expectation of perfection.  But she seems nice enough, and I haven't noticed others being cruel towards her.  

@backformore @graciek

I apologize, I should have clarified that part of my post a little better. They haven't shown other cast members being mean to Caila during any of the episodes, but many of the posts I have seen on social media, specifically those which seem to be in ardent agreement with Ashley's posts have taken on the group think I mentioned in my post. Mainly it seems to be Amanda and the twins who re-tweet and come to Ashley's defense by saying things like  "let's not judge Ashley for saying what we all think" (this was from Amanda) and re-tweeting Ashley's tweets which always seem to be not so subtle digs at Caila. At one point Ashley tweeted a lyric from a Taylor Swift song, something along the lines of "she's not who you think she is, she's an actress" (I have almost zero knowledge of Taylor Swift lyrics so I'm very much paraphrasing) which was promptly re-tweeted by Carly and at least one of the twins. Ashley deleted that tweet very soon after she posted it.  Christian was on the Afterbuzz recap this week and made mention of others taking digs at Caila.  While they haven't been outright cruel to Caila, their unshakeable agreement with Ashley, no matter what she says, just smacks of mean girl, clique behavior.  Are they on the level of Ashley's cattiness? No, but it does seem like it's all against Caila and that has to be a horrible feeling.

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16 minutes ago, thehepburn said:

 Juan Pablo is #1.  Nick the Ick is #25 I believe with Josh being #26. Those are the important numbers to remember.

Did you read it? TELL ALL!  Also, Juan Pablo is #1? The publisher says he's #18, but maybe this Simon & Schuster marketing copy is incorrect (plus, they go ahead and name him, lol):

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Andi Dorfman, star of The Bachelor and The Bachelorette, talks candidly about what it’s like to be courted by twenty-five handsome, single men in this juicy, insider’s peek at dating—and breaking up—on national TV. She shares entertaining and heartfelt stories about her fellow Bachelor alums—many of whom are still close friends—comes clean about calling out Bachelor #18 Juan Pablo for bad behavior, and reflects on her personal challenges and uplifting experiences in love that she hopes will help you get through your own break-ups with grace and style!

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3 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

Did you read it? TELL ALL!  Also, Juan Pablo is #1? The publisher says he's #18, but maybe this Simon & Schuster marketing copy is incorrect (plus, they go ahead and name him, lol):

Juan Pablo was the Bachelor in season 18, maybe that's what they meant?

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I don't hate Caila, but if I were Jared, or any dude, really, I wouldn't want to date her because she's so damn weak. I'm like, girl, why are you letting Ashley get in your head? Here's what I would've said:

"Ashley, Jared and me have something going on here. Whether or not it goes beyond paradise remains to be seen, but right now, we're together. He doesn't want you, and you never had him. If he were interested, you would've been together. Move on, mind your business, and stop embarrassing yourself. Everyone here is frustrated with and for you. You're pretty and smart and you probably have a lot to offer, but you are coming across as a bunny boiling stage five clinger. It is not a good look.  Do better."

/End scene.

Instead Caila packs up and leaves. Jared keeps this shit going, too. I know he said that he's told her multiple times that he's the fetch that's never going to happen, but he's going to have to cut her out of his life completely. She will ruin any relationship he has and no woman with sense is going to put up with it.

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8 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

Did you read it? TELL ALL!  Also, Juan Pablo is #1? The publisher says he's #18, but maybe this Simon & Schuster marketing copy is incorrect (plus, they go ahead and name him, lol):

It's the order Andi eliminated them. :)

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9 minutes ago, Selkie75 said:

 

@backformore @graciek

I apologize, I should have clarified that part of my post a little better. They haven't shown other cast members being mean to Caila during any of the episodes, but many of the posts I have seen on social media, specifically those which seem to be in ardent agreement with Ashley's posts have taken on the group think I mentioned in my post. Mainly it seems to be Amanda and the twins who re-tweet and come to Ashley's defense by saying things like  "let's not judge Ashley for saying what we all think" (this was from Amanda) and re-tweeting Ashley's tweets which always seem to be not so subtle digs at Caila. At one point Ashley tweeted a lyric from a Taylor Swift song, something along the lines of "she's not who you think she is, she's an actress" (I have almost zero knowledge of Taylor Swift lyrics so I'm very much paraphrasing) which was promptly re-tweeted by Carly and at least one of the twins. Ashley deleted that tweet very soon after she posted it.  Christian was on the Afterbuzz recap this week and made mention of others taking digs at Caila.  While they haven't been outright cruel to Caila, their unshakeable agreement with Ashley, no matter what she says, just smacks of mean girl, clique behavior.  Are they on the level of Ashley's cattiness? No, but it does seem like it's all against Caila and that has to be a horrible feeling.

Ahhh I see.. thank you for clarifying.  I don't follow any of them on social media so I was unaware of this dynamic.  Seems like very immature, high school clique behavior.  

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9 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

Did you read it? TELL ALL!  Also, Juan Pablo is #1? The publisher says he's #18, but maybe this Simon & Schuster marketing copy is incorrect (plus, they go ahead and name him, lol):

 

I have not read it but I have read many many reviews of it and I have a copy right here. I just checked and Pabs is indeed #1. The system is the order of men Andi goes thru on the show, hence Pabs is 1 and Josh is #26.  From the bk:

 

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When it was my turn, I stepped out of the limo and began what felt like the longest ten-foot walk of my life. The moment I laid eyes on Number One, I was infatuated. His satisfactorily tall athletic build, blond hair, and expensive suit that fit snugly in all the right areas (if you know what I mean) had me both nervous and intrigued.

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When it was my turn, I stepped out of the limo and began what felt like the longest ten-foot walk of my life. The moment I laid eyes on Number One, I was infatuated. His satisfactorily tall athletic build, blond hair, and expensive suit that fit snugly in all the right areas (if you know what I mean) had me both nervous and intrigued.

And this style of writing is why I couldn't read past the first chapter, even though I really wanted to know what she spills about Nick and Josh.

Edited by chocolatine
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5 minutes ago, GracieK said:

Ahhh I see.. thank you for clarifying.  I don't follow any of them on social media so I was unaware of this dynamic.  Seems like very immature, high school clique behavior.  

You're welcome. Completely agree, and I think for the most part that kind of high school clique behavior can be ignored but it would be difficult for it to not have a cumulative effect.

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2 minutes ago, Selkie75 said:

You're welcome. Completely agree, and I think for the most part that kind of high school clique behavior can be ignored but it would be difficult for it to not have a cumulative effect.

Yeah especially as it's on display for the whole world to see with tons of anonymous people chiming in with their opinions and piling on.  

ETA: this is why I prefer to discuss the show in this setting.  I feel like I can be critical and snarky without directly being hurtful to the players involved.  Perhaps I'm simply justifying being judgemental but I honestly don't feel comfortable going after people and attacking them on social media.  I also, like you, get that group think vibe and it's unsettling.  e.g. I'm also a fan of 90 Day Fiance (what can I say, I have a stressful career and enjoy mindless, stupid TV) and I've been in some Facebook groups where show participants are involved.. I always find less enjoyment with them around for the discussions.. it influences people's behavior.  And the cruelty can also get out of hand.  

Edited by GracieK · Reason: Decided to ramble...
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Luke's a war vet. In the Yoda pic, I think they were going for the good ol' "Stars and Stripes".

Yoda is very old, so perhaps it's a hint that it's Nick.

 

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I hated the way Ashley was speaking to Caila at the end. Caila is in tears saying its hard to attempt a relationship with someone with their ex breathing down their necks and Ashley is all "yeah... you should feel bad" 

 

Yes and it seemed like Ashley was completely missing what Caila was saying (on purpose?).  Her reply to Caila was like "Yes, I would feel guilty too"... good lord woman!  No self awareness whatsoever. 

Carly: That red dress outfit was 1) ugly 2) unflattering.  What a poor choice.  I really don't get what is going on with Carly at all right now, with any of the choices she is making, fashion or otherwise.  I hope later she realizes she was under some sort of spell.

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14 minutes ago, GracieK said:

Yeah especially as it's on display for the whole world to see with tons of anonymous people chiming in with their opinions and piling on.  

ETA: this is why I prefer to discuss the show in this setting.  I feel like I can be critical and snarky without directly being hurtful to the players involved.  Perhaps I'm simply justifying being judgemental but I honestly don't feel comfortable going after people and attacking them on social media.  I also, like you, get that group think vibe and it's unsettling.  e.g. I'm also a fan of 90 Day Fiance (what can I say, I have a stressful career and enjoy mindless, stupid TV) and I've been in some Facebook groups where show participants are involved.. I always find less enjoyment with them around for the discussions.. it influences people's behavior.  And the cruelty can also get out of hand.  

Exactly. People get behind a computer screen or their phone and think it's an open license to say horrible things, because it's anonymous. In this case, its people that Caila knows that are saying, and agreeing with what is being said, and that has to sting as well.  Totally with you on needing mindless TV too. :) 

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I'm just surprised that Ashley didn't pipe up about her dog "going to heaven" just before the show when Josh was 'holding court' with everyone and brought up his cancer patient dog. "Oh Josh I'm sorry! I lost my best friend recently too, want to see a picture?? Give me a hug!!"

It would have been inappropriate timing, and hilarious as well. Nothing like trying to be tough and being confronted on your sensative side.

Edited by Wandering Snark
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I finally figured out why Jared looks...odd (IMO). His eye sockets are wide set, but his eyeballs are very close together.  It gives the appearance he's almost cross eyed.  Aside from his looks, I find his "personality" and lack of social awareness off putting.  He claims he likes Caila a lot and has feelings developing for her. He knows Ashley is cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs and has weakly told her that he "doesn't like her that way". He knows her presence is jeopardizing things with Caila. So what does he do?  He lets Crazy Pants remain by his side while a relatively normal girl with relationship potential pack her bags.  Caila will easily find a better BF (or husband) well before Jar-eyed figures out he is trapped in Ashley's psychosis (and ridiculous lashes) forever. Or at least until the bats in her belfry call the men in the white coats for a ride to the quiet room with rubber mats on the wall.

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Josh seems stuck on the idea that Nick is sour grapes over losing Amanda to him. Nick has repeatedly stated that it is not about his relationship with a girl he went on one date with. 

That's the only dynamic that Josh can understand, he can't fathom that Nick could care about a woman's feelings unless he was trying to get into her pants. Plus if Josh puts that spin on things, then he is "winning" since Amanda has chosen him over Nick.

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52 minutes ago, GracieK said:

Yeah especially as it's on display for the whole world to see with tons of anonymous people chiming in with their opinions and piling on.  

ETA: this is why I prefer to discuss the show in this setting.  I feel like I can be critical and snarky without directly being hurtful to the players involved.  Perhaps I'm simply justifying being judgemental but I honestly don't feel comfortable going after people and attacking them on social media.  I also, like you, get that group think vibe and it's unsettling.  e.g. I'm also a fan of 90 Day Fiance (what can I say, I have a stressful career and enjoy mindless, stupid TV) and I've been in some Facebook groups where show participants are involved.. I always find less enjoyment with them around for the discussions.. it influences people's behavior.  And the cruelty can also get out of hand.  

YES, I feel just like this. Social media is out there to be seen, but we're more of  private club (not private exactly, but we aren't seeking to give feedback to real people.) Back in the TWOP days, on an "America's Next Top Model" thread, the first season winner showed up and posted an extremely nasty post about the second season winner, complete with F-words, the C-word,  and other off-color slang liberally spiced throughout. The mods, who would jump on anyone for anything, let her rant remain, and the posters all started treading delicately around her as they asked her questions. Not a one called her out for being rude and nasty (including me.) It stopped being a place us regular viewers could talk about the show.

Edited by Andromeda
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2 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

YES, I feel just like this. Social media is out there to be seen, but we're more of  private club (not private exactly, but we aren't seeking to give feedback to real people.) Back in the TWOP days, on an "America's Next Top Model" thread, the first season winner showed up and posted an extremely nasty post about the second season winner, complete with F-words and other nasty slang liberally spiced throughout. The mods, who would jump on anyone for anything, let her rant remain, and the posters all started treading delicately around her as they asked her questions. Not a one called her out for being rude and nasty (including me.) It stopped being a place us regular viewers could talk about the show.

It's the starstruck effect (heh as if these people are stars).  The ass kissing becomes so eye roll worthy.. especially when it's a group you're used to posting with and you're like, oh come on.. I've seen your real opinions when these people aren't around.  But I, like you, tend to remain silent.. as you don't want to be a dick directly to their face lol. 

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6 minutes ago, GracieK said:

The ass kissing becomes so eye roll worthy..

Like all the comments to Ashley on her makeup tutorial. They are all like: "Love you Ashley! So, what color number is that foundation? <3" Not a word about how crazyassed her powered makeup suitcase is or that she needs to seek therapy for this and so many other reasons. (But then I'd guess she'd want Jared to go with her to "couples" therapy)

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11 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Speaking of "low key," I'm starting to see why Jen has gone through two shows with almost no airtime.

Who is Jen?  

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Wow, Fleiss just posted, "Despite heavy speculation, Luke will not be your next #TheBachelor... #WhoWillitBe?"

ETA: He already deleted it!

Edited by huahaha

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Oh please, he's just toying with people so they'll watch since everyone is pretty much, "whatever it's Luke" at this point. I can't see it being Wells or Nick since they're both in the finale episode next week, which would kind of give away how that ended. 

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I like to think I'm cool, but yes, you just caught me squealing about spurious Bachelor posting.

Another update:

Mike Fleiss ‏@fleissmeister  57s58 seconds ago

Your next #TheBachelor is not Wells... #WhoWillitBe?

Edited by huahaha

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I would respect Caila a lot if she would finally realize what is going on and say, "Ashley is a nutcase and Jared keeps not only enabling her behavior, but rewarding it. I'm out." Jared sucks so much and Ashley is mentally unstable for real.

Why was everyone talking about that dumb book again and not how weird it was that Josh woke Amanda up and then curtly said "Good talk" when she was basically like "um I'm asleep." I guess everyone didn't know about that, but that whole thing was crazy. Josh does seem controlling and weird.

Edited by Falafel
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18 hours ago, waving feather said:

 His biggest crime to me this episode wasn't him shouting at the group like a mad dog, but waking Amanda up in the middle of the night, when she was obviously tired and sleeping, just to huff and puff about some stupid and petty reason. Why couldn't he let her sleep and ask her about it in the morning?

That was bothersome, and what bothered me even more was that he "teased" her about, saying something like "Oh, so you're not going to sleep with me now," she apologized, then he said it was ok & started a makeout session.  That was so controlling in a sneaky way, as in he gave her "permission" to do what she wanted, but let her know first that he didn't like it in the ruse of a "joke" so that in the future she won't do what she wants.  I hope that mess made sense!

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On 8/29/2016 at 10:13 PM, JenE4 said:

osh is a jerk. He's concerned that Amanda isn't sleeping in the bed with him because "everyone is making a big deal about it." No, you're making a big deal about it, @sshole. All he has to do is say, "Oh, my bad. Sorry about the mix-up. Have fun, guys!" But of course not. He'll drag sleeping Amanda up there caveman style just to win as alpha male. Amanda, you can do better, too!

...

Josh makes EVERYONE come down to the sand instead of him going up to where they're all congregated. That right there was a pissing match move; he calls the shots and gets the upper hand. 

 

On 8/29/2016 at 10:52 PM, CalamityBoPeep said:

I'm not usually one who calls out people on reality tv for red-flags, but man that conversation between Josh and Amanda after his tantrum on the beach really had me uncomfortable. First he aggressively calls out everyone, (as noted above... forcing them to come down to him on the beach), then he storms off to pack his bags (ultimatum time for his girl) then he binds her completely to him and urges her to distrust everyone else she knows, including her "best friends" (which... yeah, I have my doubts that the twins are really like sisters to her, but whatever). He's isolating her from any counterbalancing influences. That creeps me out. I wish they'd both go have their dysfunctional relationship off my screen. And seriously... she needs a wake up call. Maybe her mother could deliver one.

 

21 hours ago, backformore said:

Josh WAS being controlling.  and nothing was more telling than Amanda saying "I don't want to talk right now"  and him gong after her and pressuring her to talk to him.   When someone walks away and says the conversation is over, you need to respect their space and give them time to think.  

 

4 hours ago, ByTor said:

That was bothersome, and what bothered me even more was that he "teased" her about, saying something like "Oh, so you're not going to sleep with me now," she apologized, then he said it was ok & started a makeout session.  That was so controlling in a sneaky way, as in he gave her "permission" to do what she wanted, but let her know first that he didn't like it in the ruse of a "joke" so that in the future she won't do what she wants.  I hope that mess made sense!

All this. This episode was just one red flag after another, both in his treatment of her and of everyone else. It's rapidly becoming intensely disturbing to watch. I'd even take the gross moaning over this. That was just laughably gross. This... is not laughable at all.

On 8/30/2016 at 1:58 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

I think there is more of a need for Grant to be taken aside and warned about Lace than Amanda warned about Josh. At least Amanda and Josh appear to be into each other. Lace is just a bitch and Grant deserves much better. She did totally disrespect him, and then he is the one who turns around and apologies to her? They are only a few weeks into a relationship - if it is this much work now Grant, it is only going to get worse. 

This is also a good point. I can't say that I'm particularly concerned for Grant's physical safety, but Lace's behaviour is pretty strongly in the emotionally abusive column, and it's no less disturbing coming from her than it is from Josh. 

On 8/30/2016 at 9:01 AM, JudyObscure said:

I'm a fashion moron. I barely notice the clothes, but Carly's red dress /shorts/ gloves combo was one of the oddest things I've ever seen.  She looked like a little girl on Halloween dressed as a "fancy lady."

I notice them sometimes, but mostly off-handedly. This monstrosity almost had me doing a spit-take. I get that rompers seem to be (inexplicably, to me) a thing these days, but that one was awful, and the red gloves or detached sleeves or whatever? What the actual fuck?

Finally, I am truly sorry to see Daniel go. I kind of want him to have his own show. He's just so delightfully weird. And that end clip of him and the twin discussing the location of Italy? I know the twins are not the smartest in the bunch, but I really got the vibe there that she was trolling him kind of the same way he tends to troll people, and I thought it was kind of hilarious to see him try to navigate it. But seriously. There's kind of almost a part of me that would love to see him as Bachelor, so we could be treated to weeks and weeks of nothing but his delightful weirdness. You wouldn't even need to drink to watch, because watching him for an hour and a half would already feel like being drunk!

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I laughed when everybody at the resort except maybe the iguana told Wells to ask Ashley out. 

Ashley just can't emotionally mature.

I would have to stage an intervention if any of my friends started dating Josh.

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On 8/29/2016 at 10:13 PM, JenE4 said:

"Almost Paradise" taught me that Ryan and Brett are two different people.

"All Dogs Go to Heaven" because everything in Ashley's life is an animated movie. But prayers to the dog angels produce "Well, Well, Wells!" who is coerced into dating Ashley, with mutual Instagram pre-approval. And the crowd goes wild!! I haven't seen cheers like this since the Final Five took overall gold!

Ashley's not there, but she's STILL all Jared and Caila "taco 'bout." Without a common issue to bond over solving, they'll probably fall apart.

Of course Ashley's favorite band is Hanson! It was either them or The Wiggles. 

OMG, the love wish lantern bursts into flames and falls into the screaming crowd! Bwhaha! Wells, beware the omen! Ashley will destroy you with her love!! She will love stalk you until you combust!

Grant, you can do better. Lace is so cold and harsh to him, then she immediately shows emotions when he's not there. Obviously if she can open up and show a soft, vulnerable side to him and she can show him that she cares at all, they could work through it. But she does nothing but push him away. Eh, why do I care? I stand by my opening statement: Grant, you can do better.

Josh is a jerk. He's concerned that Amanda isn't sleeping in the bed with him because "everyone is making a big deal about it." No, you're making a big deal about it, @sshole. All he has to do is say, "Oh, my bad. Sorry about the mix-up. Have fun, guys!" But of course not. He'll drag sleeping Amanda up there caveman style just to win as alpha male. Amanda, you can do better, too!

 

I agree about Josh.  Alarm bells went off in my head when Amanda was comfortably sound asleep and Josh rudely woke her up.  She was obviously exhausted and a guy who actually cared about her would have let her sleep.  What a controlling asshole!  Josh should have stayed off tv if he didn't want anyone to believe what Andi wrote about him. IMHO he's just confirming that it's true.  I once dated an undercover Josh.  The guy did alot of sweet things for me but once we were on vacation and it was a much needed break from my two toddlers and we had gone canoeing abd hiking and he was making dinner for us and I was exhausted and said I was going to lay down.  He tried to talk. Me out of napping but said ok IL wake u up in twenty minutes.  There was no reason for that as dinner wouldn't be ready for over an hour and he didn't need help.  But he timed my nap and was very insistent that I was awake at his designated time. Turned out to be very controlling and later tried to isolate me and  I felt like I couldn't leave his house without permission.  Very scary  Run Amanda! 

Evan is a gross kisser.  Ashley is  psycho and Jared is going to end up chained up in her basement.  I don't really belive the Carly and Evan pairing.. She was so disgusted by him in the beginning.. I think they r faking it for exposure.  Maybe she wants to show off that she found love and rub it in Kirk's face thst this year someone wants her.  Why wasn't the one twin interested in Carl?  

I will miss Daniel.  He really grew on me.  He was hilarious and very creative

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Josh: "You're in trouble for your Houdini act. Just kidding." He is so creepy and controlling. It's really little things like that, that can be such a huge red flag because you can tell he is trying to show restraint and be on his best behavior for the TV cameras. He said the "you're in trouble" comment the next morning after he had plenty of time to get over it, but he was so offended that she went to bed without his permission that he couldn't let it go. This was all after he woke her up from being sound asleep and curtly said, "Good talk" and repeated it to make sure she heard. Honestly, I know this may sound horrible to say, but Amanda seems like the kind of person who would end up in an abusive relationship. She is just a vacant, clean slate that seems incapable of forming any strong opinions of her own -- perfectly ripe to be pushed around and manipulated. Everyone always says how "sweet" she is, but she strikes me as the type of person who would see something wrong happening and just say nothing because she doesn't really know how to think on her own. She is "sweet" because she never asserts herself in anyway and probably just agrees with everyone all the time. I really cannot stand her and I do think Josh has shown on multiple occasions that he is a controlling, manipulative dick. If this is how he acts when he knows TV cameras are around, how does he act in private? (Cue the promo for Andi's book.)

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Honestly, I know this may sound horrible to say, but Amanda seems like the kind of person who would end up in an abusive relationship.

Not horrible if it's true. And your summation of her is pretty accurate. Nick's impression of her in the credits scene was perfect. He basically just said nothing and gave a vague, blank stare to the camera. 

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Jarred is sad, his behavior has gone beyond ridiculous. I hope Caila dumps him and gets another, better guy asap. I have no words for Ashley I.

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14 hours ago, kira28 said:

I don't really belive the Carly and Evan pairing.. She was so disgusted by him in the beginning.. I think they r faking it for exposure.  Maybe she wants to show off that she found love and rub it in Kirk's face thst this year someone wants her.

On Chris Soules' season, Carly was all about needing to feel wanted. It's the most important thing to her because she hasn't had it in the past. Maybe it won't end up being enough, but I believe she and Evan were sincere in the moment. They are both quirky personalities and both live in Nashville. Stranger things have happened.

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I think Carley's tendency to self sabotage will wear Evan down.   Sarcasm is fun in a casual group of like minded people, but it's  miserable in a real life relationship on a daily basis.   Evan may be creepy, but he seems to be more optimistic than Carly by a wide margin.   She'll either compliment him, or steal all his sunshine.   

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On ‎8‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 4:05 PM, Mabinogia said:

That is what I am wondering. What happened to the dog? Either it got better and as soon as it did Josh decided "good, now I can go get laid on the beach" or it died and Josh thought "good, now I can go get laid on the beach". Either way, he doesn't seem very choked up about it.

I wouldn't mind Amanda's ignoring pretty much every person she knows there saying she should be careful about Josh if she didn't have kids, but come on! You have to be more careful when you have kids. You are considering bringing this asshole into your kids lives. You better hope they know his rules.

I am having a hard time deciding who I despise more, Ashley, Josh or Lace. I find all three of them pretty useless.

I'm glad (re: dog) that it isn't just me. I can't understand why we haven't heard anything like "She's fine." or "I feel bad not checking on her." or...whatever. It just seems weird, unless she didn't make it. But the way he talks, he doesn't seem sad, so it's like she made it (but had a leg amputated, I think which would still be important to have TLC rather than "I can go get laid on the beach" which I think is exactly the dynamic here.

I thought Josh was fine during Andi's season so its surprising how much damage he's done to himself here. From the obnoxious way he woke Amanda up from her chance for one good night of sleep (his ego/hormones couldn't make it seem she could bear to be without him) to the obnoxious way he confronted everyone on the beach to the obnoxious way he struts around (including the way he told Nick the special room was just for him and Amanda) to the disgusting way he eats, I really can't stand the guy.

The twins did Nick no favors making it sound like HE had approached THEM about Josh. I'm glad he clarified it although I'm sure Josh wasn't listening. (His over-reaction really set up signs for me. Plus that "no sleep for my woman!" thing rather than having the consideration to think she was tired and not bother her. He must be furious how Nick has the big fan base now from this -- and the TB gig. Haha. (Also Josh's idea that he's triumphed over Nick by taking Amanda from him is so stupid. They went on one date! In which she really didn't seem bright enough for him. I don't think he's heartbroken or even had big hopes in that direction.)

Lace also didn't do herself any favors. She was kind of a pathetic, but sympathetic beauty before. Now she's just a bitchy, self-centered mess. Grant could do so much better. 

I'm rooting for Carly and Evan though.  I think he's looking a lot better and seems lot more attractive now in paradise. Hope it lasts a while after they leave. They're kind of adorable together, and I've never really liked either one of them separately.

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3 hours ago, Padma said:

Plus that "no sleep for my woman!" thing rather than having the consideration to think she was tired and not bother her.

It was actually interesting that she didn't seem to tell him she was going to go sleep in her own bed. It seems like they had been using the couples room for a while now so if she planed on taking a night off, it seems odd she wouldn't have said good night to him. Of course, when someone told him she went to bed that should have been the end of it. He should have been "okay, guess I don't need the room tonight". And I can't help but wonder if part of it was who wanted the room, Nick. Maybe Amanda had told Josh she was going to bed and he was fine with it until he found out she told Nick he and Jen could use the room.

Either way, Josh was a total ass and I wouldn't go near the guy. I'm not a fan of a guy who is that controlling.  

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