Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Ljohnson1987]

Izzy looks like a three year old. He's going to be tall. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

43 minutes ago, Ljohnson1987 said:

Izzy looks like a three year old. He's going to be tall. 

That's why he's called "The Great White Baby"! He's huge! He'd be a good basketball player, that is if Sprout is allowed to play sports. I can see Derick allowing it...

[BitterApple]

It gave me a glimmer of hope when Derick talked about wanting to share his love for swimming with his son. Hopefully he'll man up and tell Boob to eff off when KJB insists children don't need friends or hobbies.

[Clemgo3165]

13 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I wonder if it is just Jackson's desire to be noticed as an individual. Middle kids often have challenges in that regard even in a typical family. What if you were one of 12 or so middle kids? 

I'm pretty sure that's Michael in the background, that looks like Mackenzie at the end of the tunnel and Jackson is 12 years old. The little one in the maze is too small for 12. Looks to me like an Izzy and M'kids outing. 

16 hours ago, doodlebug said:

That may be, but she is also wearing a dress.  Ever watch a little girl try to crawl in a dress?  The skirt gets caught under their knees, causing them to fall and/or the skirt ends up torn.  It's not enough to put shorts or pants under it, it's the skirt itself that causes the problem.

This will give away my age to some degree, but my Mom always put me in a little sundress with the funny little pants when I was Meredith's age. You wore pants to clean and maybe to go to the shore. No harm came to me from wearing a dress to play, I did it every day. I wore them on the monkey bars, hung upside down in them, and outraced most of the boys in my class in elementary school all while wearing a dress. Girls weren't permitted to wear pants to my very mainstream public school until I hit the 4th grade.

I was actually a little excited when Derick was announcing his goals about wanting to get to know Jill more deeply in the coming year. Why? Because he used academic language. He wants to get a Master's and Ph.D. in Jill. Could regular school be in Izzy's future?

[riverblue22]

9 minutes ago, Clemgo3165 said:

 

I was actually a little excited when Derick was announcing his goals about wanting to get to know Jill more deeply in the coming year. Why? Because he used academic language. He wants to get a Master's and Ph.D. in Jill. Could regular school be in Izzy's future?

Sorry, Derick, you've already learned everything there is to know about Jill--there ain't nothin' else!

Maybe Derick will see that Jill has a lot to learn and it won't happen just birthin' babies and living under KJB.  Move on, Derick, and start your own life away from the herd.  

[doodlebug]

22 minutes ago, Clemgo3165 said:

This will give away my age to some degree, but my Mom always put me in a little sundress with the funny little pants when I was Meredith's age. You wore pants to clean and maybe to go to the shore. No harm came to me from wearing a dress to play, I did it every day. I wore them on the monkey bars, hung upside down in them, and outraced most of the boys in my class in elementary school all while wearing a dress. Girls weren't permitted to wear pants to my very mainstream public school until I hit the 4th grade

It gives me away, too, but I remember those days.  My mom sent us out to play in shorts and pants, though.  However, I remember my baby sister at Christmas, wearing a taffeta party dress.  Every time she tried to crawl, the dress got stuck under her knees and she'd slip and slide and be unable to get anywhere.  By the end of the day, the skirt had torn away from the bodice.  I don't have any problem with girls wearing dresses on the playground except in specific cases like ones as small as Meredith who cannot crawl safely in them.  Or in any case where a girl doesn't get to do the things she wants to do because she's in a dress. 

[Clemgo3165]

Meredith seems to be happy as a clam playing with her cousin, and moving through the tunnel just fine. I don't see a safety issue here.

[Fuzzysox]

If they are moving back to AR, Derick should insist she go back to a real school to get an education that she was cheated on. There are plenty of babysitters around so there would be no excuse for her not to go. Expanding your education never hurt anyone and if she is so paranoid about losing Derick then she needs to plan for her future.

[Pachengala]

1 hour ago, Clemgo3165 said:

Meredith seems to be happy as a clam playing with her cousin, and moving through the tunnel just fine. I don't see a safety issue here.

No doubt she is happy as a clam, but as @doodlebug notes, crawling in a dress is difficult for babies, and can impede their developmental and practical progress. Of course, the baby doesn't know this, but we as parents do; I just watched my daughter go through it, and declared a moratorium on dresses until she could walk. (She skipped right over walking, however, and went straight to running.)

[bigskygirl]

2 hours ago, Fuzzysox said:

If they are moving back to AR, Derick should insist she go back to a real school to get an education that she was cheated on. There are plenty of babysitters around so there would be no excuse for her not to go. Expanding your education never hurt anyone and if she is so paranoid about losing Derick then she needs to plan for her future.

Jill is getting an education. She is studying to learn Derick by going past her "high school education" to a bachelor, master's and a Ph.D  This is her real and only education she and Derick need.

[Rabbittron]

I bet Jill is waiting for the wedding to announce she is pregnant just to upstage Jinger.

[Portia]

Not to be argumentative (who, me?), but sometimes huge babies do end up in the normal range as adults. My oldest daughter was always in the 98th percentile in height and weight as a little one. She was literally the tallest child, male or female, in every one of her classes from Kindergarten through 6th grade.  We always assumed she'd be a 6 foot giantess. At about age 14, she topped out at 5'5 1/2".  Go figure!  Also, while I'm being shamelessly off-topic, I'm just going to throw this in . . . she's expecting my first grandchild at any moment! Today's the due date!  (Please be merciful, mods. Grannies gotta gran.)

[Trillium]

Wait, what? He actually said he wants a Ph.D. in Jill? His wife Jill? Pretty sure even Jill doesn't have that herself as she's never been allowed to express any kind of originality or think for herself. And shouldn't they have done this,oh I don't know, before they got married, like us sinners do???

Edited September 7, 2016 by Trillium

[Churchhoney]

4 hours ago, riverblue22 said:

Sorry, Derick, you've already learned everything there is to know about Jill--there ain't nothin' else!

 

If you were misguided enough to marry a Duggar, though, I can see why you'd keep hoping. Talk about "Is that all there is?"

[bigskygirl]

They also said they want to talk more with each other. Really...What do they want to talk about? And lets not forget the annoying giggling Jill was doing, and the way she responded to what Derick was saying. My husband and I do not have intelligent conversations 24/7, but I probably would call his doctor(s) if he starting saying he wanting to know me at a Ph.D education level.

[kokapetl]

[queenanne]

Maybe Jill has hidden depths?

... I know, I know, but that "hoarding food and eating it in the bathroom" revelation was at least unexpected.  Maybe she has some mysteries yet to unravel.

[MargeGunderson]

1 hour ago, Trillium said:

Wait, what? He actually said he wants a Ph.D. in Jill? His wife Jill? Pretty sure even Jill doesn't have that herself as she's never been allowed to express any kind of originality or think for herself. And shouldn't they have done this,oh I don't know, before they got married, like us sinners do???

That's like a PhD in addition - no complexity. 

[Malvina]

[Missy Vixen]

She's PG. When do you think she's due?

[MarysWetBar]

Has anyone considered that Jill either had a miscarriage in Danger America or even worse,  was guided to having an abortion due to Zika?

That would certainly cause her to be fearful and want to go home. She would feel pretty sinful about the second possibility due to Jeebus.

[Minivanessa]

1 hour ago, cereality said:

. . .  Derick -- I think he knew he was a total dweeb who needed an arranged marriage. I mean the mascot of the football team at big state u spends 4 yrs around cheerleaders, women in band, and about a zillion female fans and can't get himself a girlfriend?? And then he's headed off to Nepal for 2 yrs knowing that that's another 2 yrs lost from a dating perspective and by southern standards, 25 is an old man. He realizes that he'll be parent approved though -- educated; religious; mission work etc. -- so he seeks out an arranged marriage bc he knows his only chance is if someone's daddy says -- you should marry this guy. Plus having grown up somewhat fundie himself -- I have a feeling he realized the whole headship thing could work to his favor. He knew he wanted to live in the developing world and not work 40 hrs a week -- as someone's headship, he could require that they live that life. If OTOH he had married a girl from OU, she would not have been following him off to Central America, nor would she likely have supported him quitting a job at a Fortune 500 while she was pregnant to sit home and do basically nothing.

@cereality wrote this over in the "Counting On" topic for this week's "Wild" episode, as part of a larger post about the Duggar sons-in-law and soon-to-be son-in-law. Cereality makes some good points. 

I think Derick, although into the "wandering the world" thing, had some fairly sensible goals before he married Jill. He wanted to become a missionary working for the Southern Baptists' International Mission Board, married to a woman who'd be his partner in that career. He earned a bachelor's degree in accounting, which is a useful skill set, and you don't get that by mooning around aimlessly.

IMO Derick thought he'd marry and work for a few years while he and his wife completed the seminary college-level coursework required for IMB career missionaries and their spouses. Then, with their qualifications completed, he and his wife/kids would be sent by the IMB to a foreign country where they would live and work for several years. It's a career path that's been walked by thousands of people - including a couple I know. 

IMO, where it all went wrong was that Derick jumped much too fast into proposing to Jill, while seriously failing to know who she really is. IMO he also had absolutely no understanding what it would mean that he was marrying into the Duggar Circus, where JB is the titular ringmaster, with MEchelle cleverly pulling a certain amount of the strings.

I made a list of the things he didn't know or expect, but it made this post too long. Short version: Clingy Jill, with no idea that families and spouses don't literally physically surround each other 24/7/365; badly under-educated Jill who could never master the seminary material required of an IMB missionary spouse; horribly un-socialized and arrogant Jill, out of her depth when dealing with anyone outside the Duggar family circle; and the whole Duggar circus which absorbs its kids' spouses with the utter dedication and pull of quicksand.

So, Derick gets married, and he has his accounting job, he thinks he and Jill will soon work their way through those seminary course requirements, and so forth. Then reality hit. And Joshgate broke. 

I believe Derick had to get away from the Duggar Circus to save his own sanity, regardless of Joshgate, which just made things even worse. I think he'd intended to hang on to the accounting job - with the health insurance for the baby and his own set of surgical/orthodontic procedures - for longer than he did.

I think it was HUGE for Derick to lose his dream of being an IMB missionary. Remember that he claimed that he and Jill were "commissioned" by their local Southern Baptist Church when they were leaving for CA? And had to hastily "clarify" (retract it), saying well they were really given a "blessing" or something like that. That showed me how deeply he felt that loss. Also, as far as I can tell he's been reluctant to admit or claim their relationship with SOS Ministries, who has employed them in CA, in favor of promoting "Dillard Ministries." IMO that's because SOS Ministries is a radical come-down for someone who aspired to work for the IMB.

All of which is to say that I think Derick's definitely well into Plan B (or C) for his life. I wonder if he lets himself imagine where he'd be right now if he hadn't reached out to JB to be a "prayer partner" and get vetted as courtship material. 

[bigskygirl]

Jill getting pregnant quickly did not help Derick's plans either. I wonder what would have happen if his dad was still alive. Would he have reached out to JB? I really wish his step-dad would speak out about what is really going on behind the scenes because he seems like the only one not to drink or should I say drown himself in the Kool-Aid.

[Missy Vixen]

8 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

Jill getting pregnant quickly did not help Derick's plans either. I wonder what would have happen if his dad was still alive. Would he have reached out to JB? I really wish his step-dad would speak out about what is really going on behind the scenes because he seems like the only one not to drink or should I say drown himself in the Kool-Aid.

I'm guessing the only reason that step-dad has remained silent is because he does not want to go there with his wife. I'm also curious to know what his relationship is with Triple D; if they had a close relationship it's hard to imagine him not attempting to reason with Triple D before the wedding and especially on the subject of InstaBabies.

One has to think that his perspective would have the tabloids drooling. I'm curious to know if Cathy was this much of a fundie when they met and got married, or if this is something recent because she believes that she was healed. 

[Missy Vixen]

18 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

@cereality wrote this over in the "Counting On" topic for this week's "Wild" episode, as part of a larger post about the Duggar sons-in-law and soon-to-be son-in-law. Cereality makes some good points. 

I think Derick, although into the "wandering the world" thing, had some fairly sensible goals before he married Jill. He wanted to become a missionary working for the

I made a list of the things he didn't know or expect, but it made this post too long. Short version: Clingy Jill, with no idea that families and spouses don't literally physically surround each other 24/7/365; badly under-educated Jill who could never master the seminary material required of an IMB missionary spouse; horribly un-socialized and arrogant Jill, out of her depth when dealing with anyone outside the Duggar family circle; and the whole Duggar circus which absorbs its kids' spouses with the utter dedication and pull of quicksand.

So, Derick gets married, and he has his accounting job, he thinks he and Jill will soon work their way through those seminary course requirements, and so forth. Then reality hit. And Joshgate broke. 

 

One has to wonder how quickly after the wedding reality hit. One also has to wonder what happened when it did, besides Triple D leaving his job, packing up his wife and son, and hitting the road.

It has to be clear to him by now that they cannot stay indefinitely in Danger America. It also has to be clear to him that his wife does not want to be there.

What will he do as a result? 

[BitterApple]

I have a feeling the Stepdad hates the Duggars but doesn't want to rock the boat. After all, his wife just came through a bout of cancer that was so serious there were doubts about whether she'd be able to attend her son's wedding. He probably doesn't want to do anything that would upset Cathy or put her access to Izzy in jeopardy. I'd give my right arm to know his private thoughts, though.

[cereality]

I think Derick's dad passing away has had a profound impact on his life and the decisions he's made. While they are/were a religious family, they aren't Duggar-fundie-crazy. He loses his dad as a college frosh. He obviously is grieving, stunned, everything and turns to faith to carry him through. That's fine. But I think he fell into the trap of doing what he thinks an uber religious man should do -- not mess around with girls; take a wife; raise a family, quick. Add to it he isn't the smoothest guy in the world and he's grieving, so it likely wasn't easy to find a girlfriend. But he's at a big southern school where people commonly get engaged at age 21 and marry right after college graduation at age 22. And here he is headed off to a mission in Nepal that was supposed to be 1-2 yrs and the whole time he's thinking, I'll be 24-25 when I return, who is going to marry me then. So he reaches out to the most fundie family he's heard of in Ark. knowing that he can impress the dad by being a godly young man and thus will be granted a wife immediately upon his return. So BAM -- he comes back and is engaged and married to a girl who made all the right noises about wanting to serve the Lord but it turns out then he gets to know her, all she wants is a baby every yr -- which will mess with his plans of living in the developing world -- PLUS is scared to death of leaving her comfort zone and her 18 siblings in Arkansas. So now he's married and of course w/o birth control they get pregnant asap and he is stuck and dragging his wife along to try to live the life he wants in the developing world.

I feel like if his dad was alive, he may not have gotten involved with Jill. His dad may have had the perspective to be able to say -- son, go to Nepal, live your life and you will meet the right girl when the time is right, don't do cartwheels to impress anyone's dad and don't feel like you need to meet someone via skype and put a ring on it asap, get to know them a bit . . . . After all Dan is probably 25-26ish and not married and I believe was dating a girl who was off doing some kind of internship/study in DC. He doesn't feel the rush/panic that Derick did and I feel like if Derick had had an older male tell him to slow down and look out for himself first, he may have done it.

[Churchhoney]

40 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

Jill getting pregnant quickly did not help Derick's plans either. I wonder what would have happen if his dad was still alive. Would he have reached out to JB? I really wish his step-dad would speak out about what is really going on behind the scenes because he seems like the only one not to drink or should I say drown himself in the Kool-Aid.

I expect his stepfather spends a lot of time looking like the little emoticon that keeps banging its head against the wall.

Hard to imagine the horror of somebody even halfway sane finding themselves linked into the Duggars, even sort of tenuously, like that guy. You'd keep being confronted with the insanity all the time. And watching it further engulf people you knew and care about. I mean, it's nuts and frustrating at a vast distance. Can't imagine how nuts and frustrating it must be up close.

[Minivanessa]

@cereality - more great insights. ^^^^ Makes sense to me!

And on the flipside, I was trying to imagine what Jilly Muffin really expected when she married Derick. IMO she was more like an infatuated 14 year old than a normally mature 22 year old (or whatever her age was at the time). So it's hard for me to imagine what *she* was envisioning. 

I suppose she had visions of herself having lots of babies of her own, living side by side with her adoring and adorable Derick 24/7, and being an "angel missionary" midwife delivering babies for countless grateful women "overseas." But somehow doing all this within her comfort zone of Duggarland. 

And, unicorns. Flying over rainbows.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Jeeves
Proper grammar matters.

[MargeGunderson]

I think you're right, Jeeves. Jill thought that marrying Derick meant that she would be with him 24/7. This is a girl who was raised without having to spend any time alone. She was always with a buddy or an accountability partner. The most alone time she had was apparently eating in the bathroom! Even with a baby she doesn't seem to know what to do with herself. Plus, she doesn't seem very capable to me, like she couldn't address any problem without calling Derick or Daddy to deal with it for her. She's been taught - as a female - to be reliant on a male. Unfortunately it's taken too far; rendering her simple.

Or, perhaps she's playing the long con on all of us, and is actually eating bonbons and laughing at how she's got everyone else doing the hard work for her. If that's the case, well played, Jill, well played.

[WhineandCheez]

GOD!  Those purple headband shots of Jill, 2 of them, both show the consequences of her raised eyebrow facial gesture she always makes.  So young and she has forehead grooves already because of it. Is Botox mentioned in the Bible??

[Aja]

12 hours ago, Malvina said:

This is the first I've heard of green french fries. Never once in four million seasons (80% of which was devoted to fun food factz and cholesterol-filled recipes) were green french fries mentioned. It's almost as if Jill wants the internet to feel awkward and embarrassed with themselves for ever questioning Duggar nutrition. How unusual.

[Rabbittron]

23 minutes ago, Aja said:

This is the first I've heard of green french fries. Never once in four million seasons (80% of which was devoted to fun food factz and cholesterol-filled recipes) were green french fries mentioned. It's almost as if Jill wants the internet to feel awkward and embarrassed with themselves for ever questioning Duggar nutrition. How unusual.

This is just another Fuck You interweb moment. 

[Marigold]

I agree with what everyone has said upthread about Derick.  Too much to quote!!!

Derick had his heart set on being an official missionary and now she is demoted to a SOS missioncation with a wife who is most likely depressed and unhappy out on the "missionfield".  And very clingy and bored. 

And, if I remember correctly, wasn't it a suprise to Derick that they couldn't be commissioned by the SBC because Jill does not have a college degree? 

[Tabbygirl521]

17 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

WHO ARE THESE PANTS PEOPLE??

[Arwen Evenstar]

Nancy, are you paying attention?

Here's one for ya: The Duggars: Invasion of the Pants People.

You're welcome.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Josie looks sunburned, but at least she looks clean and tidy for a change. Looks like she's almost being restrained to keep her hands off the cake. Just hope her high forehead and hairline don't doom her to Duggar pattern baldness.

[HooHooHoo]

15 hours ago, Malvina said:

OMG is "Aivah" meant to be "Ava"?  Wow, I guess her name is unique now?  Poor kid. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

5 minutes ago, HooHooHoo said:

OMG is "Aivah" meant to be "Ava"?  Wow, I guess her name is unique now?  Poor kid. 

It's still nowhere near as awful as Spurgeon.

[ariel]

I wonder if Jill's green beans are fresh or canned.

[Natalie68]

16 hours ago, Jeeves said:

@cereality wrote this over in the "Counting On" topic for this week's "Wild" episode, as part of a larger post about the Duggar sons-in-law and soon-to-be son-in-law. Cereality makes some good points. 

I think Derick, although into the "wandering the world" thing, had some fairly sensible goals before he married Jill. He wanted to become a missionary working for the Southern Baptists' International Mission Board, married to a woman who'd be his partner in that career. He earned a bachelor's degree in accounting, which is a useful skill set, and you don't get that by mooning around aimlessly.

IMO Derick thought he'd marry and work for a few years while he and his wife completed the seminary college-level coursework required for IMB career missionaries and their spouses. Then, with their qualifications completed, he and his wife/kids would be sent by the IMB to a foreign country where they would live and work for several years. It's a career path that's been walked by thousands of people - including a couple I know. 

IMO, where it all went wrong was that Derick jumped much too fast into proposing to Jill, while seriously failing to know who she really is. IMO he also had absolutely no understanding what it would mean that he was marrying into the Duggar Circus, where JB is the titular ringmaster, with MEchelle cleverly pulling a certain amount of the strings.

I made a list of the things he didn't know or expect, but it made this post too long. Short version: Clingy Jill, with no idea that families and spouses don't literally physically surround each other 24/7/365; badly under-educated Jill who could never master the seminary material required of an IMB missionary spouse; horribly un-socialized and arrogant Jill, out of her depth when dealing with anyone outside the Duggar family circle; and the whole Duggar circus which absorbs its kids' spouses with the utter dedication and pull of quicksand.

So, Derick gets married, and he has his accounting job, he thinks he and Jill will soon work their way through those seminary course requirements, and so forth. Then reality hit. And Joshgate broke. 

I believe Derick had to get away from the Duggar Circus to save his own sanity, regardless of Joshgate, which just made things even worse. I think he'd intended to hang on to the accounting job - with the health insurance for the baby and his own set of surgical/orthodontic procedures - for longer than he did.

I think it was HUGE for Derick to lose his dream of being an IMB missionary. Remember that he claimed that he and Jill were "commissioned" by their local Southern Baptist Church when they were leaving for CA? And had to hastily "clarify" (retract it), saying well they were really given a "blessing" or something like that. That showed me how deeply he felt that loss. Also, as far as I can tell he's been reluctant to admit or claim their relationship with SOS Ministries, who has employed them in CA, in favor of promoting "Dillard Ministries." IMO that's because SOS Ministries is a radical come-down for someone who aspired to work for the IMB.

All of which is to say that I think Derick's definitely well into Plan B (or C) for his life. I wonder if he lets himself imagine where he'd be right now if he hadn't reached out to JB to be a "prayer partner" and get vetted as courtship material. 

I really want to see the whole list!  This stuff is fascinating to me!

[jcbrown]

Quote

This is a girl who was raised without having to spend any time alone. She was always with a buddy or an accountability partner.

Not just "not having to" spend time alone but not being allowed to spend time alone. The Duggars are terrified of allowing anyone to spend any time alone for two reasons, I think. One: because they are obsessed with sexsexsex and only sex and thus can only assume that being alone might lead to exploring one's body and that can go nowhere good (in their tiny minds)! Second, though, it is a way to maintain control. If you are always under surveillance, you will be less likely to stray from the Duggar path. Introspection cannot be allowed because it might lead to self-knowledge and thoughts of a different life.

Edited September 8, 2016 by jcbrown

[laurakaye]

21 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

 

 

I literally did not know the human forehead contained that many folds of skin.  Well done, Jill.

[BitterApple]

The Duggar children are not aging well. Josh, JD, Jill, Jessa and Si all look much older than they really are. 

[Portia]

She's about two years from this.

 

[Aja]

Jill has more forehead wrinkles than I do, and I'm a 41 year old who smoked for 20 years. 

[Marigold]

Money is probably tight...Jill needs to download some books on kindle and expand her mind a bit. Maybe even get some audio books so she can listen while she does stuff with Izzy. 

Ben can give her some suggestions because, sadly, it seems he is the ONLY one who reads anything at all. 

Edited September 8, 2016 by Marigold

[Jynnan tonnix]

1 hour ago, Aja said:

Jill has more forehead wrinkles than I do, and I'm a 41 year old who smoked for 20 years. 

More than I do as well, and I'm 57, though I never did smoke. But I do have to admit to not thinking much about sunscreen in my younger years. Good thing I wasn't ever all that fond of the sun, but still...

[JoanArc]

Michelle's Jill wedding dress looked like an extra from Star Trek The Next Generation. Jill's forehead looks like it would fit in on the show, too.

 

 

[queenanne]

9 hours ago, Aja said:

This is the first I've heard of green french fries. Never once in four million seasons (80% of which was devoted to fun food factz and cholesterol-filled recipes) were green french fries mentioned. It's almost as if Jill wants the internet to feel awkward and embarrassed with themselves for ever questioning Duggar nutrition. How unusual.

I dunno, I feel like I have to cut them a pass on green french fries, because a specialty of theirs is apparently the previously-discussed raw cucumber slices with salt and vinegar.   Maybe the acceptance of pickles trickled down slowly to fresher greens.