Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Mariva]

I will be honest - my water broke and I took a shower, are breakfast and did some errands. I knew I wasn't going to have life as I knew it after that, but I wasn't having contractions and there were some things that needed to be done. We are talking two hours tops. My doctor sighed a lot with me as a patient. My daughter was born well within the 24 hour window.

I'm not saying that Jill had to drop everything over any given issue. Up until she got to the hospital, actually, I don't think she was being unreasonable. And I don't think she waited too long to go. It's that it seems she fought nearly EVERY medical intervention that bothers me, once she was there. And she still ended up with the last scenario that she wanted. It just seems too bad that a little common sense might have helped her and made the birth not only easier, but actually more what she'd hoped if to be.

Ah thanks for reinforcing my theory. So it's sounding more and more like that 70 hours of labor they mentioned was a joke. I don't entirely put the blame on Jill however because that could have just been a miscommunication between her and the reporter. 

 

Re. your second point, I don't know if saying your birth plans was the most extensive your doctor has seen is something Jill should brag about. Sounds like she was being a control freak. I think what happened was that Jill had a nervous breakdown between all the waiting around and stalling once labor started. People have speculated that Jill has a fear of needles and can't handle pain very well, and they were right. I imagine a lot of women in her similar situation wouldn't hesitate to seek medical help. But not Jill. Even though she claims to have made contingencies, she had subconsciously worked herself up to believe that natural birth is still THE best way. I actually feel sort of bad for her because I'm sure she was scared to death and sticking to her original birth plan was probably her way of trying to gain control of what was happening. As much as people can pick on Jill for not having any "common sense", imo there's not many out there who wouldn't have a hard time functioning in such a stressful situation. Especially for someone like Jill, who has been taught all her life to only follow the rules or evil things will happen. I don't necessarily feel she was selfish for wanting a natural birth, she was only doing what SHE felt was right for her and her baby at the time.

 

I really hope that with time, Jill is able to step back and truly process her birth experience. Now is not that time, not when her pains are still fresh and she's being overwhelmed with the media and having to take care of a newborn. It would be nice if she (and Derick) voluntarily decide to step out of the spotlight for a while, but maybe that decision has to be "forced" upon them. As much as I'm NOT looking forward to seeing her birth light of all the new details, at least TLC isn't dragging the special out until next season. Just get this mess over with and maybe next season will focus more on Josiah's courtship and Jill could finally have a chance to relax without the pressures of having to appear like the perfect fundie daughter/wife on camera all the time.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Mariva

[Seashell Lover]

One fucking lie after another. Jill if you keep saying those lies do you really think we will start to believe them? We are not dumb as you think we are  we are smart.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Seashell Lover

[Absolom]

No they went out to lunch on Friday afternoon. Her water broke in the early hours of Saturday, I'm guessing around 1~2am, if we are to believe the 70 hours timeline from when Jill delivered her baby. Derick posted Jill's last bump update (41 weeks & 4 days, not 5) around 8am later that morning. Which means Jill's water was already broken by the time he posted the photo.

 

Someone who's more knowledgable in birth correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like Jill's water broke but she didn't start getting contractions until much later? And in the hours leading up to it she felt fine, at least enough to stand around and take photos? Everything I've read says that Derick did nothing but his best to support his wife. So I find it highly unlikely that he would be more concerned about updating social media if there was any indication of Jill having labor pains and under serious distress.  I definitely think the 70 hours of "intense" labor was an exaggeration, either because the reporter or Jill didn't clarify (or understand) that line between when Jill's water broke and when her labor started. I'm guessing when they referred to the 20 hours period before Jill went to the hospital most of that time was just waiting around for Jill to go into labor. When that didn't happened, they went to the hospital where it sounds like she went into labor but then stalled again, until finally she agreed to Pitocin after much hesitation (but she ended up with a C-section anyway). I'm guessing her actual labor (ie. contractions) was much closer to the 50 hours spent in the hospital which sounds more "reasonable" than 70 hours IMO. I've heard of several women who've had 48+ hours labor but 3 days seems way too excessive.

 

I will be honest - my water broke and I took a shower, are breakfast and did some errands. I knew I wasn't going to have life as I knew it after that, but I wasn't having contractions and there were some things that needed to be done. We are talking two hours tops. My doctor sighed a lot with me as a patient. My daughter was born well within the 24 hour window.

Thanks for the dates  It didn't take me long to forget the exact chronology.

 

Yes, the water can break and aside from some leakage mom can be perfectly fine.  It's a reason to call the doctor for what he/she wants you to do, but not a reason to panic.

 

 Labor usually ensues in a few hours.  My OB was of the opinion that due to my personal situation it was OK to give my body a chance to go into labor naturally vs the downside of pitocin from the get go.  That is why seeing an experienced OB is a good idea.  They know your individual history and can give informed advice.  I was in contact with the OB by phone every few hours until he said it was time to go to the hospital.  The water breaking was NOT considered the beginning of labor.  In fact the nurses didn't count the beginning of labor until they saw good contractions on the monitor. I was given the choice to go straight to the hospital if I'd be more comfortable doing that.                                   

 

Jill learned (hopefully) a lesson many pregnant women figure out before labor, that once labor begins you are no longer in charge - baby and your body are.  

Edited April 15, 2015 by Absolom

[truelovekiss]

I've never had a baby, and I'm at least 5 years away from even considering it, so I'm no one to talk, but what is the deal with birth plans? I feel like once it's time, you get to the hospital as quickly as possible and just turn the reigns over to your doctor and one way or another the doctor gets the baby out of you. Sorry if I'm way oversimplifying it, I don't mean any disrespect to the mommies! It just seems like the Duggars like to over complicate things like this, to justify the fact that it's really all they do.

[GEML]

Well, I don't think it was a joke, and if you've read my posts, you will know I never thought Jill couldn't handle pain. I think she's a strong and capable young woman with as much or more education as any Duggar. Yes, it was a stressful time. But all of us who have been through this know that not every moment is painful, scary and stressful - it comes in waves, and her training and experience should have helped her, not hindered her.

So no, I'm not backing down from anything I posted. I'm sorry that she had to go through that, because she's a person an no human being in this day and age in the US should have to endure that. I'm thankful that she and the baby are well. But she deliberately too far too many unnecessary risks, down to the lack of shoes in the hallway. She's NOT a professional, and I'm glad she will not be practicing.

I was high risk and had an extensive birth plan to avoid a Caesarian. And my OB followed it explicitly. But we were both reasonable about it.

Edited April 15, 2015 by GEML

[Mariva]

Just read the entire People article on another forum. Am I allowed to post to mention the forum or post a link? I think the small snippets People have released so far were a bit misleading. The full article provides more background to what actually happened. The 70 hours timeline is still very vague (IMO), but among other details, Jill confirms her contractions didn't start until hours after her water broke. The article also mentions that she eventually agreed to both epidural AND Pitocin.  Initially their baby was posterior but flipped into a traverse breech position and that's when they decided on the C-section. The part I found disturbing was Derick talking about how there is absolutely no shame in having a C-section which only tells me that Jill DID feel ashamed about it, poor girl.

[PinkSprinkles]

Birth plans are just documents that let the doctor know how you want to proceed with the delivery of your baby. If you want to labor without drugs, for example, you'd have that in your "plan" so they know not to give you any. It's not a legally binding document, by any means, but it lets you plan out what you want while delivering. 

 

I don't have children, but my mother works in PP and she has told me plenty of times that "birth plans" go out the window once the labor begins and the only goal the doctor and patient have is getting that kid out the safest way possible. She got a good chuckle out of the "extensive birth plan" line in the article. That poor doctor. 

[Mountainair]

I've never had a baby, and I'm at least 5 years away from even considering it, so I'm no one to talk, but what is the deal with birth plans? I feel like once it's time, you get to the hospital as quickly as possible and just turn the reigns over to your doctor and one way or another the doctor gets the baby out of you. Sorry if I'm way oversimplifying it, I don't mean any disrespect to the mommies! It just seems like the Duggars like to over complicate things like this, to justify the fact that it's really all they do.

Plenty of Moms I've associated with have had birth plans. I think it's a product of the society we live in where every woman wants to feel like the only person ever to be pregnant, it's not just a Duggar thing. I don't doubt it's a good idea to have an informed opinion of what you would like to happen but too many people treat their birth plan like the Bible.

I've had two babies and my birth plan with both was to labor at home as long as possible and that was it. I succeeded in that with my first but with my second I was induced. In my view, once I step foot in the hospital it's up to them to see me and my child through a successful delivery. Birth plan or no birth plan. Granted, my mom always attends my child's births as she is a nurse so I trust her to make sure things are being done properly but I also have a very highly rated hospital in my area and I trust their staff.

Jill was just stupid and selfish and I don't feel one ounce of sorry for her. She's lucky things turned out the way they did and after this latest media frenzy regarding her heroic birth, I've opted out of watching any of the TLC programming related to her specifically. I just can't anymore.

[Skittl1321]

 The part I found disturbing was Derick talking about how there is absolutely no shame in having a C-section which only tells me that Jill DID feel ashamed about it, poor girl.

 

I've seen numerous articles pop up on facebook and pinterest reassuring "C-section mamas" that their births are just as valid, so there is clearly something in society that makes some Moms feel like they didn't do something right if they needed a C-section.

[Mountainair]

I've seen numerous articles pop up on facebook and pinterest reassuring "C-section mamas" that their births are just as valid, so there is clearly something in society that makes some Moms feel like they didn't do something right if they needed a C-section.

Seriously? I've only had vaginal births but I tip my hat to c section mamas. I would never want that in a million years. Both types of delivery are hard but I just can't imagine being sliced open like that.....

[GEML]

I also had a truly outstanding OB that I trusted absolutely. But when you've written a book about midwifery, you aren't going to be the easiest patient! :)

C-sections are one of the things that has reduced maternal and infant mortality, and are an important part of care. No woman should ever feel ashamed of how her birth went, including Jill. But I will say that some doctors and some hospitals have rushed some women into decisions when they weren't in a position to actually feel as though they could ask questions or request alternatives. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

[JoanArc]

Jill's whole birth experience seemed like it was designed as an f-you to snooty doctors, trained professionals, woman that have 'easy' births, a people that think pregnancy/childbirth is a woman's purpose in life.

[Mariva]

Well, I don't think it was a joke, and if you've read my posts, you will know I never thought Jill couldn't handle pain. I think she's a strong and capable young woman with as much or more education as any Duggar. Yes, it was a stressful time. But all of us who have been through this know that not every moment is painful, scary and stressful - it comes in waves, and her training and experience should have helped her, not hindered her.

So no, I'm not backing down from anything I posted. I'm sorry that she had to go through that, because she's a person an no human being in this day and age in the US should have to endure that. I'm thankful that she and the baby are well. But she deliberately too far too many unnecessary risks, down to the lack of shoes in the hallway. She's NOT a professional, and I'm glad she will not be practicing.

I was high risk and had an extensive birth plan to avoid a Caesarian. And my OB followed it explicitly. But we were both reasonable about it.

In their interview they say and I quote "we were trying to exhaust all our options but do it within our birth plan".  What you thought was unnecessary risks, they saw as ~taking options~.  So that's one way of looking at it, LOL. I can only hope the medical staff at the hospital was closely monitoring Jill to ensure that her and baby weren't under any serious danger. 

 

ETA: The People scans are up on the Duggars tumblr. Link to all 6 parts - 

http://41.media.tumblr.com/a1c5c8d005e19b1bd725d18326a2fa9a/tumblr_nmux3c1RWS1r9t2zdo1_1280.jpg

http://41.media.tumblr.com/bf1d0b2db5ba8b9ce46db5a25b8007ed/tumblr_nmux3c1RWS1r9t2zdo2_1280.jpg

http://40.media.tumblr.com/ecb9fc9adbd0f11ec9e96a58f0738fc5/tumblr_nmux3c1RWS1r9t2zdo3_1280.jpg

http://40.media.tumblr.com/8caaccf682730100197960178c9550ad/tumblr_nmux3c1RWS1r9t2zdo4_1280.jpg

http://40.media.tumblr.com/f90bfbebb8abe1cf39b55b368e7e6124/tumblr_nmux3c1RWS1r9t2zdo5_1280.jpg

http://40.media.tumblr.com/203bbf44cad66f8b02109fb83cb59290/tumblr_nmux3c1RWS1r9t2zdo6_1280.jpg

Edited April 15, 2015 by Mariva

[Kiss my mutt]

In part of the article Jill says that the doctor has no doubt she'll be able to have a vbac next time. How can he be so sure? By his stitching prowess?

[PinkSprinkles]

He probably said it so she'd agree to the c-section. Nothing is absolute. Her next pregnancy may allow her to deliver naturally or it could be a repeat of this one and she will have to have another section. 

[JoanArc]

The article says Jill sees a chiro? That's new to me.

 

Jill told he doc to stitch her up really well. As if he wouldn't have otherwise?

Edited April 15, 2015 by JoanArc

[Wellfleet]

I hesitate to say this in this forum, but I have to wonder if God wasn't trying to teach her something about letting go of what she has been taught to believe.

 

If He was, Jill will never pick up on it. It would threaten the most central theme of her life. That prayer is all that needed, in any situation. Jill & Derick are interpreting the safe arrival of a healthy baby as proof that God's will was done, that they are blessed. They'll never see that maybe it was also God's will that medical science and trained professionals were also there - and figure prominently in the happy result.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Wellfleet

[JenCarroll]

Cute how they're making sure lots of conflicting info gets out, so no one can say they know exactly what happened and it was bad judgment.

I feel that Jill was very, very focused on holding out for every last possibility of getting what SHE wanted, and not focused on what would be best for the baby. Which is no surprise; Mechelle certainly taught her that way of thinking. This was her moment to finally be someone important: The Mother.

I do feel sorry for her. She was all ready to be the Earth Mother Incarnate, serene and beaming with her easy, naturally-delivered baby and making back-handed comments about how it's almost always possible to avoid intervention. And she's catching hell instead. (Some of it, I freely admit, from me.) And now instead of being the big big star next season -- "I gave birth! I am Woman!" she's probably going to be eclipsed by Marjorie. Oh, and Jessa's probably pregnant.

[JoanArc]

 

And now instead of being the big big star next season -- "I gave birth! I am Woman!" she's probably going to be eclipsed by Marjorie. Oh, and Jessa's probably pregnant.

Courtship-marriage-instababy got her a year of prominence. That amazing, compared to say Justin, who no one remembers even exists. This kind of attention will never come around again. The people article says Si announced the same day Jill gave birth. Welcome to getting one-upped, Jill!

[doodlebug]

traverse breech position

 

There is no such terminologys as a 'transverse breech' position.  Also, it is highly unlikely that a large baby, two weeks overdue in a first time mom whose water is broken would've turned in labor anyway.  I suspect that Jilly-Boo's baby was probably not cephalic (headfirst) from the start and this wasn't picked up by her lay midwife prior to her labor.  Most breech babies have been breech all along, the notion that babies 'flip' around like acrobats in labor, especially after the water breaks and the quarters get much smaller is often cited by inexperienced practitioners who just missed the breech from the start.  It can be tough to determine presentation in some people.

 

I suspect that Miss Jill came to the hospital and had as part of her birth plan, 'no vaginal exams until I have the urge to push'.  That's a pretty common demand from the homebirth crowd.  Had she had a vaginal exam or two before days went by, it is more likely that the breech would've been picked up although, as I said, it can be missed on exam, especially before the cervix is very dilated.

 

I suspect Jilly-Boo finally consented to a vaginal exam only after she got the epidural and the doc or nurse who did that exam figured out it was not the baby's head coming down.  Even if it couldn't have been avoided prior to labor; it should've been picked up quicker than it was if, in fact, her baby was not head first and that's what they mean by calling it 'transverse breech'.  A baby can be sideways or transverse in the uterus or it can be breech (butt first).  It cannot be both.  BTW, a large baby who is lying transverse in the womb almost two weeks after the due date is most likely too big to fit into the pelvis and that's why it hasn't don so.

[dorcastrilling]

That poor baby. He has an idiot for a mother, a dad who checked any sense of self he may have had at the Duggar doorstep...and now if those People pictures are any indication....he really does look just like grandpa nimrod.

Birth plan: A) give me the epidural and B) that's all.

[3 is enough]

I stand corrected about the going out to lunch after her water broke.

 

I apologize if I sounded critical of any women who didn't drop everything and rush to the hospital as soon as their water broke. I also took my time and had a shower and made sure my little ones were ok before leaving.  And if you are in close contact with your OB and they say to go ahead and have a meal first or do what you need to do before coming in, so much better. But Jill just pisses me off with her "I am a trained midwife and I know more than the trained and licensed doctors and nurses" attitude.  I think the thing that had me more wigged out was that she had tested positive for Strep B.  If she knew this in advance, and she should have if she had proper prenatal care, then she really should have headed to the hospital asap.

 

 I think the details are just so fuzzy, the stories keep changing, and it's getting to the point where you can't believe a word anyone is saying.

 

I don't know if they are in serious damage control mode, if they are trying to drum up anticipation for the birth episode, or if they are really just that stupid.  Probably a combination of all of the above.

Edited April 15, 2015 by 3 is enough

[Wellfleet]

It sounds like Jill, like so many homebirth/crunchy moms, thought there was only one way to have a baby; that all she had to do was wish and make it so.  The problem is that there are as many ways to have babies as there are women to have them.  What works for one, doesn't for another.  What happens to one woman doesn't necessarily happen to the next.  Even the same woman can have completely different experiences in different pregnancies.  That's why it is so important to keep an open mind and play the cards you are dealt. It's great to want an unmedicated non-hospital birth; but, being inflexible about it when circumstances speak against it is just foolish.  A first time mom with a very large baby who has gone significantly overdue and whose water breaks before she goes into active labor is usually not going to have an easy, no drugs, no intervention labor.  I don't know the exact stats; but a large majority will need help. Jill set herself up by deciding that there was only one way to go; that pitocin was evil, that antibiotics aren't necessary.  While the risk of group B strep infection is overall tiny in term pregnancy; it is significantly elevated in women whose water has been broken for more than 18 hours or so (there is research to back this up).  A woman whose water breaks who doesn't go into spontaneous labor is far less likely to suffer complications for herself or her baby if pitocin is started within 6 hours (once again, there's research on this stuff).  In addition, the risks of pitocin to mom and baby are far less than the risks of major surgery like a C/S.  If Jill really chose to have a cesarean rather than pitocin (presuming there was a choice by the time she got around to going to the hospital); she is an ignorant twit.

 

Of course Jill thought her way was the only way. Duggars can't handle options - there's too much thinking and consideration involved when you need to make difficult choices. I truly don't think they can handle it. If Boob and Me-chelle had taught their kids as most parents do, maybe things would be different. How to face and solve problems, how to figure out what the best choice is in a given situation, how to think critically about anything. And a little humility would help tremendously as well. To recognize that some people know things that they don't know. How to trust, value and use the skills of others to their own benefit. But when things are difficult or go awry in Duggarland there is only one thing to do. Pray for guidance. It's incredible that it doesn't ever seem to dawn on Boob, Me-chelle or any of the adult kids that maybe God is saying "I have already provided you an answer for this problem. I have given you doctors and nurses. Why aren't you listening to them?"

[truebluesmoky]

As with many reality TV families, the weirdest thing to me is thinking about how many of their life choices are related to their fame. Would Michelle have been quite as desperate for #20 if they hadn't become a household name? Would the kids be considered as good catches for courtship and marriage in their circles? Derrick, Ben, and now Marjorie... after seeing Anna's entire life get turned into a TV show, how much did that affect their desire to join the family? And, specific to Jill, how much did it affect her birth plans? After announcing every last detail of her pregnancy on social media and having it filmed for future episodes, how much longer did it take her to adjust to the idea that she wouldn't have the homebirth she wanted both for herself and her baby but also for her adoring public? I can't even imagine all that weighing on me when I was in labor.

 

Full disclosure: I personally did have a horrible experience with hospital birth with my first child... awful Pitocin induction, awful OB, awful, avoidable injuries to my own body. And I did have a wonderful homebirth with my second child with a textbook healthy pregnancy and a midwife with access to oxygen and medications and a philosophy conservative enough to promise to recommend hospital transfer at the very first sign of trouble. (My homebirth baby, born a day before his due date, was over 10 pounds!) There are pros and cons to different birthing choices, and there are good and bad eggs when it comes to both midwives and OBs. But one I thing I know for sure is that, while I would have been really sad if my homebirth hadn't worked out and I'd ended up in the hospital with a c-section, I can't imagine anything other than the safety of my baby weighing into my decision. I can't imagine worrying about what "the fans" would think.

Edited April 15, 2015 by truebluesmoky

[Wellfleet]

I've seen numerous articles pop up on facebook and pinterest reassuring "C-section mamas" that their births are just as valid, so there is clearly something in society that makes some Moms feel like they didn't do something right if they needed a C-section.

 

Yes - there are a lot of jerks out there in society.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Darknight]

What choice did they have? Performing surgery on someone against their will is assault and Jill could press charges. It has happened. Jill is mentally competent, the doctors and nurses had no choice. I feel for them and hope they are treated sympathetically when it airs; it is tremendously frustrating to deal with people who come to the hospital but then tie everyone's hands with their unrealistic notions. The only way to perform surgery on an unwilling patient is with a court order which is extremely difficult to get here in the Midwest. In conservative rural Arkansas, good luck finding a judge who'd order it.

I work in a Birthing Center known for is family centered, hands off care. We are located inside a full service hospital. We often get homebirthers who come in after days at home. Jill's story rings very true to me. Many homebirthers really have no idea what they are doing and yet, they insist on micromanaging their care and refuse the advice of professionals because they know better. If I had a nickel for every one that told me 'I know my body'.... This only confirms to me that Jill's midwifery training is piss poor and the 'midwives' who cared for her are too busy pretending that everything always works out in the end to provide actual support and sound medical advice to their clients.

Most homebirthers are also pretty difficult to care for, often rude and dismissive; yet demanding. The last one who passed through our doors had a story similar to Jill's and only consented to a cesarean after 9 hours of pushing without progress. Along the way, she insisted on a new labor nurse when one displeased her, required second and third opinions when physicians recommended Pitocin and antibiotics and ultimately 'fired' the doc who first recommended she needed a C/S while she was pushing and the staff had to get on the phone and find another doc willing to take over in the middle of the night. None of the docs knew her, the first one was on call, he didn't have any choice. Then, on her way out the door, she called the hospital ombudsman with a list of complaints and demanded various individuals be disciplined for various slights. The guy who first recommended a cesarean; she wanted him fired immediately. You've got no idea how ridiculous people can be.

What if baby dilly died or had serious birth defects? What will Jill do then? It's her choice but she needs to know doctors are there for a reason. She won't get brownie points just for delivering naturally

[GEML]

I actually don't think the story has changed much at all. It's being added to, but it's not really changing. She rolled the dice a few times too many and she'll never admit it, but thankfully we do live in a world where we have sophisticated options that resulted in a positive result for her and the baby.

[BitterApple]

Jill is an idiot. She's damn lucky that baby was born healthy. All this drama because she refused to abandon her original birth plan. She truly is her mother's daughter.

[Wellfleet]

I think this statement of hers, combined with Derick's that this was his first ultrasound ever, first hearing the heartbeat of a baby ever, just highlights how completely f-ed up their belief system is. Of course having your own baby should be different than caring for your siblings (because in most households, siblings are not raising siblings), and if you've never had a child before, it stands to reason this would be your first ultrasound experience. It's kind of amusing how people have such high hopes of outsiders like Derick or Marjorie helping their Duggar partners see the light--by all indications they don't view the Duggar way of life as abnormal or maladaptive in any way.

 

Very true. I think many of us had hopes that Derick would begin to turn the crazy train around. But he surely hasn't. And in hindsight, that was truly wishful thinking on our parts. And I think it's fairly doubtful anyone else who marries into this family will be any different.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Wellfleet

[GEML]

The thing is, I think Michelle would have been just as hungry for #20, Jill would have been just as stubborn, and I think their fame has cost them some really good choices in mates because in their world, people don't want to be linked to the family. (Anna came from within their world and was high ranking, but Derick is a total outsider and Ben and now Marjorie are not "catches" from a Gothard perspective.)

I don't think the show impacts their choices as much as we think it does.

[doodlebug]

 

In part of the article Jill says that the doctor has no doubt she'll be able to have a vbac next time.

I suspect that this is just more Duggar bullsh*t.  Sure, the doctor told her it was an absolute lock, just like Michelle's doctors told her it was a great idea and perfectly safe to continue having babies well into her 40's despite multiple cesareans and life threatening complications.

 

Most likely, the doctor told her she could have a trial of labor(not a VBAC, just an attempt at one) with the next one and her odds were good IF she didn't go two weeks late, IF the kid wasn't huge and IF the baby was headfirst and Jill heard what she wanted to hear.  Same way she approached her entire pregnancy; she only listened to the stuff that fit her fantasy.

 

Remember that neither Ma Duggar or Jilly's OB/GYN's have been interviewed about it and, since there's no way the Duggars would want honest medical information out there, they would never consent to waive HIPPAA in the first place.  Far more important to feed the beast with more of their magical Duggar thinking.

 

[JoanArc]

 

Jill heard what she wanted to hear

Probably the only true thing you could ever say about Jill.

[yogi2014L]

An article on Yahoo front page says that Jill is "an experienced midwife"

 

Does fact checking even exist???/ Yahoo should be ashamed. "experienced midwife' my ass. Pathetic. Even if she actually went to school, got educated and was a certfied nurse midwife, she would be far from anything I would consider experienced.

( Not being ageist- I am 26.)

 

Direct quote from the article 

"It was something that even she, an experienced midwife, wound up being unprepared for."

https://celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/jill-duggar-dillard-extremely-difficult-birth-70-hours-labor-143944246.html

 

I hope this was a huge reality check for her, and I truly truly hope she never assists in another home birth again. I think she would be a danger to women. 

[Saylii]

At my hospital, once I had the epidural I was no longer considered to be of sound mind to make medical judgments. It was part of the paperwork that was signed before I could get my epidural. When it was determined that an emergency c-section was needed, I was told I needed it by the on-call OB and my husband was asked how to proceed.

If Derick gave the go ahead for the c-section and Jill was still unsure about it, I could see where that is leading to some of the tensions in their videos lately.

Although, at this point I really have no trust in what People is saying. They are publicizing in the interest of TLC and viewers for the birth special. The more dramatic it sounds, the more people will tune in.

[3girlsforus]

I suspect what the doctor told her is that there was nothing about the labor, birth or c-section that would preclude future attempts for a VBAC. Sometimes there are things that happen during a c-section that make it medically necessary for future deliveries to be c-section and only c-section. My guess is that the doctor just confirmed that those cases did not exist in Jill's case.

[3 is enough]

Well I don't know if I am strange, but after my daughter was born I remember being in the hospital room alone thinking that I could never do this again.  And this was an uncomplicated vaginal birth of a 6lb 8oz baby.  My only issue was a wonky epidural that only took on one side, so I felt  a lot of pain.

 

Of course I got over it and was back again 2 years later.  This time I had a boy, and I thought " Well I never have to do this again"

 

But number 3 had other ideas and I was back again 2 years later, secure in the knowledge that DH had had a vasectomy.

 

My point is "next time" was the farthest thing from my mind after giving birth.  And I did not have any of Jill's issues.  Can't she just enjoy her son and not worry about "next time"?  It seems very sad, and at the same time somewhat greedy to me.

Edited April 15, 2015 by 3 is enough

[graefin]

Same way she approached her entire pregnancy; she only listened to the stuff that fit her fantasy.

The sad thing is that I think this is the way she (they) approach their entire life.

[Wellfleet]

An article on Yahoo front page says that Jill is "an experienced midwife"

 

Does fact checking even exist???/ Yahoo should be ashamed. "experienced midwife' my ass. Pathetic. Even if she actually went to school, got educated and was a certfied nurse midwife, she would be far from anything I would consider experienced.

( Not being ageist- I am 26.)

 

Direct quote from the article 

"It was something that even she, an experienced midwife, wound up being unprepared for."

https://celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/jill-duggar-dillard-extremely-difficult-birth-70-hours-labor-143944246.html

 

I hope this was a huge reality check for her, and I truly truly hope she never assists in another home birth again. I think she would be a danger to women. 

 

Geez, the Duggars are just making it up as they go along now, aren't they? BS is the total name of the game from here on out. Jill is an experienced midwife. Josh is a graphic designer. Sierra Whosis is a wedding coordinator. What the hell will be next? Jessa's a florist because she stuck a daisy in a vase. And do we get to label Boob as a porn star because he's been filmed and paid for performing a sexual act in public and in the media? Good grief.

 

Seriously, Yahoo should definitely be challenged on this blatantly-incorrect statement. Is the only recourse to fire off an irate comment? What a complete and utter joke.

[3girlsforus]

Well I don't know if I am strange, but after my daughter was born I remember being in the hospital room alone thinking that I could never do this again.  And this was an uncomplicated vaginal birth of a 6lb 8oz baby.  My only issue was a wonky epidural that only took on one side, so I felt  a lot of pain.

 

Of course I got over it and was back again 2 years later.  This time I had a boy, and I thought " Well I never have to do this again"

 

But number 3 had other ideas and I was back again 2 years later, secure in the knowledge that DH had had a vasectomy.

 

My point is "next time" was the farthest thing from my mind after giving birth.  And I did not have any of Jill's issues.  Can't she just enjoy her son and not worry about "next time"?  It seems very sad, and at the same time somewhat greedy to me.

 

This made me laugh... It reminds me of the strangest part of all of my labors. My middle daughter was my first home birth. She was a slow labor (32 hours active labor), 2 hours of pushing, born posterior (never rotated). toward the end of pushing she starts coming out and that ring of fire burn (stretching of the perineum) hit me like a brick. I'm exhuasted, back labor for 30+ hours, been pushing for 2 hours and that was the worst pain I'd ever felt. But from somewhere in the back of my brain I hear myself thinking ' Wow - I have to do this again'. WTF??? At the time she was supposed to be out last kid so it wasn't that. I was so stunned I said out loud 'what are you crazy'. No one had any idea what I was talking about and I couldn't explain because I was still pushing. In fact those were the only words I uttered during the entire time I pushed. To this day I figure it had to be the endorphins causing insanity LOL.

[CherryMalotte]

That People article with all the timelines and details isn't just fiction - it's science fiction.

 

I had to laugh last night - my near 20 year old daughter and I were yapping about some of this and she asked what a birth plan was.  I told her that my birth plan to her is at this time in her life is not to get knocked up, please finish school first.  She's actually going to school for radiology, doing the prep classes now.  You know, for a college degree, not the Yokel Hillrod School of Birthin Babies where Jill got all her knowledge.

 

I don't like Derick after all the Cat Gate stuff, but I almost feel sorry for him.  She's got his balls on her keychain for their vehicle.  It's almost painful to watch her correct him constantly.

Edited April 15, 2015 by CherryMalotte

[BitterApple]

Let's just all breath a collective sigh of relief that Jill will never finish her midwife training. Think of how many botched deliveries can be avoided because Jill got knocked up an hour after the ink on her marriage license dried.

Right now Derick's probably wishing he'd sought someone else as a prayer partner, lol.

[GEML]

Let's just all breath a collective sigh of relief that Jill will never finish her midwife training. Think of how many botched deliveries can be avoided because Jill got knocked up an hour after the ink on her marriage license dried.

Ultimately, this is how I feel. She's free to make her choices and her family will be her family. I don't like that she's on television and media representing midwifery, but I'd like it even worse if she were actually delivering other women's babies.

[cereality]

So much BS in that People article - the doctor promised a vaginal birth next time? No doctor in his right mind would promise that. My guess is if that conversation happened when they were trying to explain to her that she needed a c section, it was along the lines of -- having a c section this time will not affect your ability to have a vaginal birth later -- not guaranteeing it but saying people have c sections followed by vaginal births. If it was while he was stitching her up, it was likely more along the lines of -- I see no uterine damage here, no concerns about future births.

 

And Derick saying -- there's no shame in laboring for a long time and not progressing and not needing a c. No kidding -- it's a medical procedure. Is there shame in needing antibiotics or ulcer medicine? It's kind of the same thing. Who is he trying to convince -- I am thinking Jilly Muffin is having a hard time accepting she had a c section and she needs to hear over and over that it isn't her fault. I kind of wonder if Derick is the one who finally pushed her/signed off on the C-section -- bc some part of his pea brain finally accepted his kid may be in danger with heart rate issues when Jill still couldn't accept that -- and Jill -- without saying it -- is kind of holding it against him that he "undermined" her and her body's capacity to birth. But in their keeping sweet way, she can't exactly have a screaming match as most couples would and move on. That may explain their general discomfort with each other -- on top of the all the physical stuff, she's mad at him and blames him, and he knows it but won't bring it up either. If I were Dan or Cathy (esp Dan) -- I'm not sure I could hold back on my "I told you this family was nuts . . . ."

[GEML]

To be honest, I'll read any tension between them as exhaustion. The first few weeks of a new baby, especially the first (even if you know as much as Jill) are a lot harder than you can prepare for.

[Wellfleet]

That People article with all the timelines and details isn't just fiction - it's science fiction.

 

I had to laugh last night - my near 20 year old daughter and I were yapping about some of this and she asked what a birth plan was.  I told her that my birth plan to her is at this time in her life is not to get knocked up, please finish school first.  She's actually going to school for radiology, doing the prep classes now.  You know, for a college degree, not the Yokel Hillrod School of Birthin Babies where Jill got all her knowledge.

 

I don't like Derick after all the Cat Gate stuff, but I almost feel sorry for him.  She's got his balls on her keychain for their vehicle.  It's almost painful to watch her correct him constantly.

 

The "Yokel Hillrod School" literally had me LOL-ing here! All alone in the house right now and cracking up. Thank you CherryMalotte - for the belly-laugh!

[Wellfleet]

From the article:  "When things didn't work out that way, she says her doctor told her that her birth plan – which included contingencies for Pitocin (a hormone to stimulate contractions, which she was given at the hospital before she gave birth) and a cesarean section (also in her birth plan) – was one of the most extensive he'd ever seen."

 

I bet THAT'S right...

Does anyone remember if Jill talked over Derrick before they were married or did she start doing it once she had him locked in? I can't stand to watch their interviews. She's just too rude. She repeatedly interrupts him and talks over him.

 

She most certainly did. Talked over him, interrupted him. And corrected him, though in a nicer way then.

[Jordan Baker]

I'm happy that Jill had a successful delivery and that Izzy is healthy, but I'm sorry to hear that she might be feeling bad about the way she delivered.

 

In fact, I'm always surprised when I hear that some mothers feel bad about having a C-section. I've had two deliveries--one of each type. The C-section was my second birth. As soon as I was told that the monitor showed a problem with the baby's heartbeat, I was totally on board with the section. I didn't feel any different about this delivery. If anything, I was relieved that the baby would be born so quickly, given the fetal distress that was evident.

 

Maybe it's different for a first. My OB told me with my first that I might have to have a section, and I didn't feel anything other than a bit of fear of having surgery. But I've known of women who felt "unworthy" or something. I have never seen it as a reflection of the woman or the baby. Sometimes, I think it IS a reflection of the hospital/birthing center/OB, but it has *nothing* to do with the outcome.

 

In fact, I told my son very early on, my favorite Stephen Wright joke about having been born by a C-section:

 

"I was born by Caesarian section...but not so you'd notice. It's just that when I leave a house, I go out through the window."

 

 

[Kiss my mutt]

After having severe pelvic problems after a vaginal birth that required numerous surgeries I would have loved to have ended up with a c-section.

[Ljohnson1987]

Jill sounds so ridiculous. "Stitch me up good, so I can pop out the next one in a year". Just stop, Jill. Be grateful that Israel is healthy, and stop talking to People.

[Hpmec]

Who but a Duggar would be focused on "next time" within a week of the birth of her 1st child? It's ok to enjoy and get to know the one you have, Jill. Poor Israel. No wonder he stayed put as long as possible. I'd be screaming and squirming, too, if someone told me I was destined to live the life of a Duggar.