Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[EarlGreyTea]

One of the things that surprised me most was Jill actually wanting to do even more mission work. It always seemed on the surface that she was more of a passive player in it, even though she said she had a heart for missions. Reading about the danger they faced and their friend who was murdered, it's no wonder she was terrified. I assumed she wanted to get out of dodge and that Derick was the one who wanted to stay.

I liked reading about her bonding with the women she met in her mission work, and when she said she missed them. I remember being touched by a scene in Counting On where she made banana bread for a small group of ladies and, even though she didn't understand much Spanish, still looked engaged and sympathetic.

[zoomama]

i finished the book last night -- i bought the hardback copy. they can have my pennies. i found it compelling and enlightening reading. it was interesting in that as i read, i remembered questions we had about D/J at times and it answered the questions for me. it left me shook that a parent could be so heartless to their own child in such an underhanded way - brainwashing and controlling. now, i know it goes on, but to read it from the inside perspective of what we had seen on tv and in the news was really disturbing. also, my impression of michelle has changed a bit -- not a lot -- but a bit. how much of her demeanor and actions has been him manipulating her all along? i guess we will never know that answer. someone upthread asked about her faith at this time. she is very strong in her faith, but not in the IBLP version. i am impressed with how strong she has turned out to be and frankly, derick too. he may be a PITA online but he seemingly stood by her and supported her valiantly through the years of crazy. i am impressed with these two ex-duggars.

[ChicksDigScars]

20 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

The fact Jill actually used the P word when talking about Josh during one of the interviews surprised me in a good way.  She realized her dad cared more about the child that did the crime as opposed to the children that were attacked.

And hearing Josh was in the same room/area as Jessa and Jill is the missing piece.  Jessa was so shut down/angry during the interview while Jill was so sad and scared.  Now it makes sense.

The fact that Skeevy McPerv was in the room during the FOX interview doesn't shock me in that this is exactly up JimBlob's alley. What DOES surprise me is Megyn Kelly and FOX allowing it. As if I needed a reason to dislike her (and FOX) even more. WTF, Megyn? This is your blockbuster interview. You couldn't put your foot down on that one thing?  Did JB state that Josh HAD to be in the room, or the whole interview was a no go? Disgusting.

[AstridM]

4 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

The fact that Skeevy McPerv was in the room during the FOX interview doesn't shock me in that this is exactly up JimBlob's alley. What DOES surprise me is Megyn Kelly and FOX allowing it. As if I needed a reason to dislike her (and FOX) even more. WTF, Megyn? This is your blockbuster interview. You couldn't put your foot down on that one thing?  Did JB state that Josh HAD to be in the room, or the whole interview was a no go? Disgusting.

Megyn was trash then and still is today. 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

The fact that Skeevy McPerv was in the room during the FOX interview doesn't shock me in that this is exactly up JimBlob's alley. What DOES surprise me is Megyn Kelly and FOX allowing it. As if I needed a reason to dislike her (and FOX) even more. WTF, Megyn? This is your blockbuster interview. You couldn't put your foot down on that one thing?  Did JB state that Josh HAD to be in the room, or the whole interview was a no go? Disgusting.

I think the decision to have Josh in the room wasn't a malicious one; I think it just underscored one of the main points that makes the whole thing so terrible. The children (even as adults) were not seen as people to be protected. They were seen first as commodities to enrich the show.  The show took precedence over everything else.

[lascuba]

43 minutes ago, EarlGreyTea said:

One of the things that surprised me most was Jill actually wanting to do even more mission work.

Ugh, of course she did. I know people don't care about that but I've always thought the missionary thing is the worst thing about her. This really proves to me that she hasn't changed much at all.

[LilJen]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Coming back to add, Jill's siblings should be thanking her for their $80,000 payouts. How shitty of them to take that money and still side with JB.

I am guessing that they are still deep in the brainwashing of “this is our ministry to bring the gospel to the world” and seeing JB’s payout as “WOW OUR DAD IS SOOOOO GENEROUS HE DIDN’T HAVE TO DO THAT BUT HE IS KIND AND GRACIOUS JUST LIKE GOD, GEE WHIZ!” I am also guessing that they know nothing of how those payments came about, only the BS they tell them about their “awful, rebellious” sister.

Edited September 15, 2023 by LilJen

[Salacious Kitty]

2 minutes ago, LilJen said:

I am guessing that they are still deep in the brainwashing of “this is our ministry to bring the gospel to the world” and seeing JB’s payout as “WOW OUR DAD IS SOOOOO GENEROUS HE DIDN’T HAVE TO DO THAT BUT HE IS KIND AND GRACIOUS JUST LIKE GOD, GEE WHIZ!”

They were also bound by the NDA they signed not to talk to ANYONE about the money (and everything else, of course).

[satrunrose]

4 hours ago, deaja said:

I think the decision to have Josh in the room wasn't a malicious one; I think it just underscored one of the main points that makes the whole thing so terrible. The children (even as adults) were not seen as people to be protected. They were seen first as commodities to enrich the show.  The show took precedence over everything else.

I think it also underscores who the golden child in the family was and how little value anyone else had. The goal of that interview was to downplay what had happened and show two happily married, well-adjusted daughters, who were doing quite well thank-you-very-much until In Touch came along. If Josh hadn't have been right there they might have managed it. Instead, fairly or un, we end up with the impressions of Jill and Jessa that have lasted until the present day; Jessa as the emotionless b- and family apologist and Jill as the fragile one who wasn't supported when she needed it. The narrative of shiny, happy Duggars could have gone on a lot longer if JB wasn't such a completely destructive idiot.

[Future Cat Lady]

The fact that they had the victims go on TV to defend their abuser instead of Josh defending his own actions tells you how much they don't value their daughters.

It's also disgusting how FOX was basically on their side. They should've insisted on interviewing Josh and not the girls and confront the parents about their lies and actions.

[Salacious Kitty]

We have JB and Chad Gallagher to blame there. I didn't realize how enmeshed Chad was with JB before reading the book. I just figured he was strictly PR. 

[CalicoKitty]

18 hours ago, sagittarius sue said:

To quote The Who, Won't Get Fooled Again.

And to be able to help children and adults who get in the same situation.  Financial and contractual protection.

[Quilt Fairy]

Finished the audiobook and thought it was quite good.  I wish they had gotten a professional narrator, but Jill is not terrible.

[BetyBee]

8 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Finished the audiobook and thought it was quite good.  I wish they had gotten a professional narrator, but Jill is not terrible.

I considered getting the audiobook, but I went with the kindle version. I'm glad to hear Jill was not terrible. I'm not a huge fan of audio versions, but I'd like to give audio another chance one of these days. I tend to doze off when listening to an audiobook! 

[Dianaofthehunt]

Maybe a published author or two can answer this question:
When a book is purchased via Kindle, how much (what percentage) of that money goes directly to the author? Does the author get a bigger cut if their book is purchased in a hardbound edition?

[skatelady]

There are 40 holds on this book in my local library system (over a dozen libraries), and they don't even have the book yet. So I think I will buy my own copy. However.... I cannot keep it, as we are moving and my husband & I mutually agreed on NO MORE BOOKS!! (lol, I donated over 1000 already). Would any of my fellow snarkers like to have my copy after I'm done? I'd happily mail it to you (or deliver it in person if you're not too far). 

Message me!

[AstridM]

I just found a digital copy of the book available for only $3.20. I bought it and it was easy to click and instantly download the PDF copy. 
 

https://www.inspireuplift.com/Counting-The-Cost-By-Jill-Duggar-Author-/iu/3611063

3 hours ago, BetyBee said:

I considered getting the audiobook, but I went with the kindle version. I'm glad to hear Jill was not terrible. I'm not a huge fan of audio versions, but I'd like to give audio another chance one of these days. I tend to doze off when listening to an audiobook! 

I hope Jill’s siblings get the audiobook so they can hear it in her voice. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by AstridM

[louannems]

For those of you who have read the book, I have a question about JB’s itemized list of Jill’s expenses.  Is he talking about all expenses since Jill was born, or just her adult years while she remained living at home between age 18 til marriage? 

I do believe JB spent plenty of money on his adult kids, even the married ones. They all drove big SUVS, had Apple laptops and phones, spent lots of time in coffee shops and nail salon, went on plenty of ski trips and cross-country visits, had too many babies, with little or no jobs or education.

Of course, he bought them all these things because he has to control them and they cannot work (if female) or must work for JB (if male).

[Trillium]

35 minutes ago, louannems said:

For those of you who have read the book, I have a question about JB’s itemized list of Jill’s expenses.  Is he talking about all expenses since Jill was born, or just her adult years while she remained living at home between age 18 til marriage? 

I do believe JB spent plenty of money on his adult kids, even the married ones. They all drove big SUVS, had Apple laptops and phones, spent lots of time in coffee shops and nail salon, went on plenty of ski trips and cross-country visits, had too many babies, with little or no jobs or education.

Of course, he bought them all these things because he has to control them and they cannot work (if female) or must work for JB (if male).

So the length of time he charges her for things varies a lot. None of it was her entire childhood but he charged her for feeding her for $3 a day 12 years, which does seem like some of it was when she was a kid, she moved out at 24 when she got married. It was very much him just pulling numbers out of his ass. 
 

Like a lot of us long suspected, he had all the money and definitely used it to guilt and pressure the kids to do what he wanted. He basically told her her inheritance was 1/19 but would be drastically reduced if she didn’t get in line.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Trillium

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, Trillium said:

It was very much him just pulling numbers out of his ass. 

I've not read the book, but that was my impression. I mean, maybe he did, but I really don't think he kept a running tally of all of this stuff over the years. But he totally whipped it out as a manipulation and intimidation tactic to make them stand down. I can just see the spiteful little hamster wheel turning in his head when he decides to do this in retaliation. I am sure he thought he was being really slick and clever. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Zella

[Salacious Kitty]

I'm wondering how he presented this to his CPA. That person didn't question it? I'm thinking he (sure they're male) is as sleazy as JB. 

[CalicoKitty]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

I've not read the book, but that was my impression. I mean, maybe he did, but I really don't think he kept a running tally of all of this stuff over the years. But he totally whipped it out as a manipulation and intimidation tactic to make them stand down. I can just see the spiteful little hamster wheel turning in his head when he decides to do this in retaliation. I am sure he thought he was being really slick and clever. 

That was my impression when I read it.  Everything on the list is a nice, round number, and he thought he was being clever to "charge" Jill for costs related to being his daughter.  It was very insulting.  He apparently had given them either money for, or actual, furniture. In that list he offered to buy the furniture back at a discount after so many years.  Now that this "document" is out in the open, he really, really looks like a jerk.

[CalicoKitty]

Jill's family reputation of being "the snitch" was also brought to light.  Jill's childhood was spent trying to be the "perfect child", and her whole reason for being was to gain positive attention (or any attention) from her parents.  Her indoctrination by her parents went very deep.  She wrote that she loved it when JB would point out to the other kids how correct she was or how she was doing the correct thing in a certain situation.  She considered her nickname "Jilly Muffin" as proof that she had her parent's approval. That is  part of the reason that she was so shocked when JB turned against her.  What a horrible way to grow up.

It is interesting that JB "found" and pushed Derrick and Jill towards each other.  JB really thought that he had Derrick under his control.  That didn't work out so well for him.

[Salacious Kitty]

It's also notable that Jill wasn't interested at first. 

I wonder how much JB contributed to Derick's ministry in Nepal? We do learn that he gave Dillard Family Ministries 10 grand. 

[quarks]

5 hours ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

Maybe a published author or two can answer this question:
When a book is purchased via Kindle, how much (what percentage) of that money goes directly to the author? Does the author get a bigger cut if their book is purchased in a hardbound edition?

This 100% depends upon the publisher, the contract, how the publisher handles returns, whether or not the publisher chooses to release the book through Kindle Unlimited, and whether or not the reader buys the book outright or uses Kindle Unlimited.

With that said, most Simon & Schuster authors, like Jill, can expect to receive somewhere around 10% to 25% of the Kindle price; and about 7% to 15% of the hardcover price. Audio varies tremendously; I'm guessing that Jill is getting a slightly higher royalty rate than usual here since she narrated her own book, but that's a complete guess on my part and might be wrong. 

While we're here, Simon & Schuster now typically splits the "advance" payments into four checks: one check on signing, one check on delivery, one check on launch, and withholds the final payment until the next reporting period after launch (probably June 2024). She can and will keep the first three checks regardless of sales; the final check and any further royalty payments will depend upon sales/returns.

[Heathen]

5 hours ago, louannems said:

For those of you who have read the book, I have a question about JB’s itemized list of Jill’s expenses.  Is he talking about all expenses since Jill was born, or just her adult years while she remained living at home between age 18 til marriage? 

I do believe JB spent plenty of money on his adult kids, even the married ones. They all drove big SUVS, had Apple laptops and phones, spent lots of time in coffee shops and nail salon, went on plenty of ski trips and cross-country visits, had too many babies, with little or no jobs or education.

Of course, he bought them all these things because he has to control them and they cannot work (if female) or must work for JB (if male).

Even in On the Road with Too Many Duggars, Jana had a Motorola Razr, which was the trendy phone at the time (it was pre-iPhone!). I think you're right about Jim Bob spending money on the adult kids, even though it was on Jim Bob-approved things. I mean, John got a plane and flying lessons. 

[Future Cat Lady]

5 hours ago, louannems said:

For those of you who have read the book, I have a question about JB’s itemized list of Jill’s expenses.  Is he talking about all expenses since Jill was born, or just her adult years while she remained living at home between age 18 til marriage? 

I do believe JB spent plenty of money on his adult kids, even the married ones. They all drove big SUVS, had Apple laptops and phones, spent lots of time in coffee shops and nail salon, went on plenty of ski trips and cross-country visits, had too many babies, with little or no jobs or education.

Of course, he bought them all these things because he has to control them and they cannot work (if female) or must work for JB (if male).

I think you are right about the control aspect. He probably had no problem giving them the material thingd they wanted, but giving them a "paycheck" would give them too much freedom.

[dariafan]

20 minutes ago, Heathen said:

Even in On the Road with Too Many Duggars, Jana had a Motorola Razr, which was the trendy phone at the time (it was pre-iPhone!). I think you're right about Jim Bob spending money on the adult kids, even though it was on Jim Bob-approved things. I mean, John got a plane and flying lessons. 

Cause they needed to justify a “private plane “

[Trillium]

6 hours ago, Zella said:

I've not read the book, but that was my impression. I mean, maybe he did, but I really don't think he kept a running tally of all of this stuff over the years. But he totally whipped it out as a manipulation and intimidation tactic to make them stand down. I can just see the spiteful little hamster wheel turning in his head when he decides to do this in retaliation. I am sure he thought he was being really slick and clever. 

A lot of the numbers didn’t even make sense. He has $1,000 a year on clothing and Goodwill purchases, and $600 a month on discounted utilities. I doubt the entire utility bill was $600, let  alone Jill’s portion (this didn’t include her cell phone, that was itemized separately). There’s no way the clothes she bought while living there (and shared with her sisters) cost $1,000 a year from Goodwill. 

The saddest part of the letter was at the start of it JB said he was sorry, so Jill was hopeful things were turning a corner. But then then lists all the things he paid for and ends with him threading to cut off her inheritance. He truly is terrible. 
 

She starts the book calling herself a hunter, a hunter for her parents approval. And that didn’t end until well after she was married and had her own kids. Therapy really did seem to help her, and the things she describes about their sessions, her therapist seems pretty decent actually. She does give a lot of credit to therapy helping her. She has a long way to go but I think the fact she’s learning it’s ok to question things, I hope she keeps that momentum going. 

[Minivanessa]

8 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I'm wondering how he presented this to his CPA. That person didn't question it? I'm thinking he (sure they're male) is as sleazy as JB. 

If you mean that "itemization" of costs that JB dreamed up and sent to Jill, I don't think JB would have consulted his CPA about it, nor would he have sent it to his CPA.

1 hour ago, Trillium said:

A lot of the numbers didn’t even make sense.

That's understandable when you remember the context in which JB came up with that idiotic list of expenses.

He was reacting to Jill and Derick's having requested a copy of the 2014 TLC contract she had signed, as well as Mad Family Inc. corporate documents. And having asked about the small matter of $132,000 that JB's accountant had reported on tax returns filed with the IRS, as having been paid to Jill. Which she hadn't received -see below.

• JB had in prior months "given" Jill $80,000, without her having signed the contract and NDA he required the other kids to sign to get the same amount (and had at first wanted her to sign as well).  That had apparently been in reaction to Jill and Derick's initial questions about the TLC contract, reimbursement for their out of pocket medical costs for Izzy's birth which had been featured on two episodes of the show, etc. IMO JB thought he could hand out chunks of money and thus shut up the Dillards.
• But after that, Jill received a letter from the IRS. We don't know what it said. But it led to the Dillards getting their tax returns from JB's CPA who had always prepared Jill's returns (and also the Dillards' joint returns the first two years of their marriage).
• After reviewing those returns, Derick discovered that over the years, the CPA had reported that Jill had received income, although she hadn't in fact received any of that money. She asked Derick if the total was $80,000 - which would have been covered by that payment from JB. No, he said, it was more. About $132,000 more.
• So there was JB. confronted with his Jilly Muffin and her husband wanting the TLC contract, and to know WTF was going on and where was the $132,000 the IRS was told she'd received as income, but which she had not received. 
• And they weren't playing. They eventually hired a lawyer to pursue the request although I don't think they had at that point.
• So what does JB do? He goes ballistic. And among other things he dreams up this "accounting" of "expenses" he'd paid for Jill's benefit over the years - which oh so conveniently came to - just under $130,000. And fires it off to Jill in a text message. 

It was, as has been said, a d*ck move. "How dare you disrespect your father by demanding $130,000? Look, I've easily spent that much on you over the years. You already GOT it, girl, just in goods and services, not cash."

It was a d*ck move and the list was BS. Of course the numbers don't make much sense. They just had to add up to the target number. I'm sure he just thought of all the categories and played with numbers until it added up to the total he wanted. 

I'm sure that was never a document JB consulted his CPA about, or shared with his CPA. It was just a little grenade he tossed over the wall at Jill and Derick that didn't have the effect he'd intended. 

EDIT: I reviewed the part of the book about this and tweaked the total JB cited which was close to what I'd posted. He then said he'd give her $20,000 to settle everything, take it or leave it, with a deadline of I think a few days. 

I hope the story of that list of expenses follows that greedy little sumbitch to his grave.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Jeeves
Clarification of a few bits after looking at the book

[Panopticon]

2 hours ago, dariafan said:

Cause they needed to justify a “private plane “

And Jill is quite explicit about that in the book. JB and Michelle were having trouble keeping up with their speaking engagements during the height of the show’s popularity and JD’s dream was to fly, so it lined up nicely. Meanwhile, Jill “thought about it briefly” but “didn’t want to ask where the money had come from.” 

[Salacious Kitty]

4 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

If you mean that "itemization" of costs that JB dreamed up and sent to Jill, I don't think JB would have consulted his CPA about it, nor would he have sent it to his CPA.

That's understandable when you remember the context in which JB came up with that idiotic list of expenses.

He was reacting to Jill and Derick's having requested a copy of the 2014 TLC contract she had signed, as well as Mad Family Inc. corporate documents. And having asked about the small matter of $132,000 that JB's accountant had reported on tax returns filed with the IRS, as having been paid to Jill. Which she hadn't received -see below.

• JB had in prior months "given" Jill $80,000, without her having signed the contract and NDA he required the other kids to sign to get the same amount (and had at first wanted her to sign as well).  That had apparently been in reaction to Jill and Derick's initial questions about the TLC contract, reimbursement for their out of pocket medical costs for Izzy's birth which had been featured on two episodes of the show, etc. IMO JB thought he could hand out chunks of money and thus shut up the Dillards.
• But after that, Jill received a letter from the IRS. We don't know what it said. But it led to the Dillards getting their tax returns from JB's CPA who had always prepared Jill's returns (and also the Dillards' joint returns the first two years of their marriage).
• After reviewing those returns, Derick discovered that over the years, the CPA had reported that Jill had received income, although she hadn't in fact received any of that money. She asked Derick if the total was $80,000 - which would have been covered by that payment from JB. No, he said, it was more. About $132,000 more.
• So there was JB. confronted with his Jilly Muffin and her husband wanting the TLC contract, and to know WTF was going on and where was the $132,000 the IRS was told she'd received as income, but which she had not received. 
• And they weren't playing. They hired a lawyer to handle the request.
• So what does JB do? He goes ballistic. And among other things he dreams up this "accounting" of "expenses" he'd paid for Jill's benefit over the years - which oh so conveniently came to - just about $130,000,  or $132,000, or whatever the amount was. And fires it off to Jill in a text message. 

It was, as has been said, a d*ck move. "How dare you disrespect your father by demanding $130,000? Look, I've easily spent that much on you over the years. You already GOT it, girl, just in goods and services, not cash."

It was a d*ck move and the list was BS. Of course the numbers don't make much sense. They just had to add up to the $130,000. or $132,000 or whatever that number was. I'm sure he just thought of all the categories and played with numbers until it added up to the total he wanted. 

I'm sure that was never a document JB consulted his CPA about, or shared with his CPA. It was just a little grenade he tossed over the wall at Jill and Derick that didn't have the effect he'd intended. 

I hope the story of that list of expenses follows that greedy little sumbitch to his grave.

 

I was under the impression that Boob used the itemized list on a tax return. I guess we never learned where the amount in question actually originated, aside from Boob's fantasies. I wonder if he did this with all his kids, but since they just electronically signed off, didn't realize the shell games that Boob played.

[Minivanessa]

  

Just now, Salacious Kitty said:

I was under the impression that Boob used the itemized list on a tax return. I guess we never learned where the amount in question actually originated, aside from Boob's fantasies. I wonder if he did this with all his kids, but since they just electronically signed off, didn't realize the shell games that Boob played.

The list is quoted in full in Jill's book. I doubt that JB did anything like that with the other kids. (Unless another kid started asking inconvenient questions - and we have no way to know if they did.)

It was part of a long text message from JB in reply to their request for the TLC contract and other documents and IIRC info re the missing $132,000 of income that had been reported to the IRS. 

He totally pulled that stuff out of his, um, ear, as is clear from the context in the book. It conveniently added up to just about the missing amount. I'll quote part of the message because it's such a JB thing.

Quote

Yes, we allotted, at different times, amounts to our children, for tax purposes, because each one of our children were benefiting from having all of their needs met (food, clothing, shelter, utilities, music lessons, education, travel, instruments, vehicles, phones, medical insurance, medical bills, etc.). Here are some low numbers of what was approximately spent on Jill in the last few years:

[leaving out the long list of things and his stupid numbers]

$129,940 is just the beginning of Jill’s expenses paid by Duggar family over the last several years. Most of this was made and spent on Jill before you two were married.

Also, taking into account many other ways that we have spent money to help you all, for example, installing the AC in your home to El Salvador, the stove, the washing machine, etc.

The total on Jill’s tax returns was $130,250.

We would be willing to write a check for $20,000 to settle this once and for all.

Jill, when Mom and I pass on, you are set to receive 1/19th of everything we own that is set up in a trust for you kids.

If you attack us, probably your inheritance will be lowered significantly.

I love you, but I am grieved by the disrespect and the accusations that continue.

I have asked for forgiveness, and I hope that you will also, you have deeply offended your mother and I.

We love you and forgive you for the things you have said & done.

$20,000 is a one-time offer, take it or leave it, please let me know by Monday night, or the amount will be zero.

Love,

Daddy Duggar

  --Duggar, Jill. Counting the Cost (p. 218-219). Gallery Books. Kindle Edition. 

Yeah, "Love, Daddy." And according to Jill's book, he was a little under on the amount shown on her tax returns and not paid to her. She cited the number as $132,249.98.

[Salacious Kitty]

But he says that they alotted amounts for the children (at different times) for tax purposes. That says to me that Jill wasn't the only one he did this to. Unless he's lying to her, which is entirely possible.

(I read the book, just came to different conclusions) 😃

[LilJen]

Yeah, I don't think you can count expenses related to raising your children as business expenses. Unless you openly admit you had each one of them ONLY for business purposes. Which, yeah, lots of love shown there, "Daddy." 

Edited September 17, 2023 by LilJen

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

Jill's family reputation of being "the snitch" was also brought to light.  Jill's childhood was spent trying to be the "perfect child", and her whole reason for being was to gain positive attention (or any attention) from her parents.  Her indoctrination by her parents went very deep.  She wrote that she loved it when JB would point out to the other kids how correct she was or how she was doing the correct thing in a certain situation.  She considered her nickname "Jilly Muffin" as proof that she had her parent's approval. That is  part of the reason that she was so shocked when JB turned against her.  What a horrible way to grow up.

It is interesting that JB "found" and pushed Derrick and Jill towards each other.  JB really thought that he had Derrick under his control.  That didn't work out so well for him.

I'm surprised he did too. Jill was the one who believed the most. She followed all the rules, she was the one who spoke the most during interviews, she "corrected" Jinger wanting to live in a big city and other stuff. She absolutely bought into everything her parents' were selling. She did the courtship. She wanted to be a nurse but when they corrected her to being a midwife she did that. Plus the money that was made off her wedding and Israel's birth. I always thought she was JB's favorite. But none of that mattered when she and Derrick dared to ask for money to cover Israel's medical bills. He really turned viciously.

 

48 minutes ago, Panopticon said:

And Jill is quite explicit about that in the book. JB and Michelle were having trouble keeping up with their speaking engagements during the height of the show’s popularity and JD’s dream was to fly, so it lined up nicely. Meanwhile, Jill “thought about it briefly” but “didn’t want to ask where the money had come from.” 

Yep, John David wanted to fly but he only was allowed to because his parents' wanted to fly around in a private plane. If they hadn't he never would have been allowed to learn. They are only allowed to do things if they benefit JB and Michelle somehow.

[Minivanessa]

35 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

But he says that they alotted amounts for the children (at different times) for tax purposes. That says to me that Jill wasn't the only one he did this to. Unless he's lying to her, which is entirely possible.

(I read the book, just came to different conclusions) 😃

That's interesting. I see what you mean! 

Here's my take on it. I think that over the years, for tax purposes (as he admitted, LOL), JB told his CPA that each kid (not only Jill)  had been paid income from the funds Mad Family, Inc. had received for the TLC shows.

And the CPA filed tax returns for the kids showing those amounts of income as stated to him by JB (and I assume booked as such on Mad Family Inc,'s financial records). Of course now we know that no such sums were really paid to those kids.*

But I don't think JB created any lists of expenses to calculate the kids' "incomes." If he had, he would have just pulled a copy of Jill's list(s) from the CPA tax files and sent it to her. Instead, he said in the text message that he was providing some "low numbers" of "approximately" what had been spent on Jill. 

I think that each year, JB gave his CPA the "income" numbers for his kids' tax returns based on whatever he thought would be helpful in reducing taxes payable by Mad Family Inc., etc., and wouldn't look ridiculous on the kids' tax returns. ETA, it may have been a straight percentage, see my edit below.

When challenged on it he came up with the silly justification that "this is what we spent on the kids and thus they benefited from and thus it was really their income."  But it apparently wasn't reported as deductions from the Duggars' personal returns as dependent expenses, or as expenses paid by Mad Family, Inc. for the kids, but as income paid to the kids from Mad Family Inc.  

*I don't know if there are any laws (tax laws or otherwise) about how JB as the parent of those minor children was supposed to handle the money he'd reported as their income to the IRS. From what I read in the book, I don't think he set aside any of it in accounts or trusts for each kid. He just used it for investments or whatever he thought best, with the idea the eventually each kid would inherit 1/19 of "everything" after he and Meech had died. His "investment" plan for his kids. It was a slick way to justify this to himself. But it  was very stupid because he didn't seem to think that any of his kids would grow up and become adults who, you know, had questions. 

ETA: Here's what Jill said about how JB handled the money paid to Mad Family Inc, for the TLC show. Apparently each kid just got a straight percentage which really shows that justification he came up with in that text message was nonsense:

Quote

Pops . . . determined somehow that each child would receive 3 percent on their tax return each year. However, even this was a phantom payment, seemingly just reported on paper for tax purposes with no apparent intention to actually pay out this amount. We would later be told that this previously reported income was an investment or inheritance that we could only have access to upon my parents’ death.

-- Duggar, Jill. Counting the Cost (pp. 225-226). Gallery Books. Kindle Edition. 

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Jeeves
Found the info in the book I was looking for

[Salacious Kitty]

He expected them to shut up and do as they were told, even as adults. To quest was considered to be disobedience. All so Boob could continue to sit on his piles of cash. 

Such an evil, greedy asshole. 

[CalicoKitty]

I was surprised that Jill was quite clear that in IBLP, children were to be obedient to their parents for their entire lives, even after marriage.  This also applies the new spouse.  This organization really would appeal to little guys with big egos and the need for power.  The father has control over everything in their life.  Derick didn't see things the same way, which started some of the arguments.  This explains, to me anyway, the pushback that Jill received as opposed to Josh.  Josh was/is the "heir next in line" to run the family if something happened to JB.  

[Salacious Kitty]

9 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

I was surprised that Jill was quite clear that in IBLP, children were to be obedient to their parents for their entire lives, even after marriage.  This also applies the new spouse.  This organization really would appeal to little guys with big egos and the need for power.  The father has control over everything in their life.  Derick didn't see things the same way, which started some of the arguments.  This explains, to me anyway, the pushback that Jill received as opposed to Josh.  Josh was/is the "heir next in line" to run the family if something happened to JB.  

Would Boob "allow" the FF to run the ship should he become incapacitated or dies? I imagine this is all spelled out somewhere.  But even if the FF takes over, would anyone actually respect him? He didn't have overwhelming support from his siblings at the trial. 

[CalicoKitty]

2 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Would Boob "allow" the FF to run the ship should he become incapacitated or dies? I imagine this is all spelled out somewhere.  But even if the FF takes over, would anyone actually respect him? He didn't have overwhelming support from his siblings at the trial. 

I think some would.  Some of those kids are used to being "protected", not only from satan but also financially.  I don't think some of the "kids" could take care of themselves or make their own decisions.

[MsJamieDornan]

6 hours ago, Heathen said:

Even in On the Road with Too Many Duggars, Jana had a Motorola Razr, which was the trendy phone at the time (it was pre-iPhone!). I think you're right about Jim Bob spending money on the adult kids, even though it was on Jim Bob-approved things. I mean, John got a plane and flying lessons. 

Not one of the things he bought were new. The phones, the cars, the furniture, nothing. jmo

[Heathen]

21 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Not one of the things he bought were new. The phones, the cars, the furniture, nothing. jmo

I disagree. I think the phones, at least, must have been new, and probably the Macs that came later. As far as furniture, if I had a passel of feral children who'd be climbing all over it, I'd buy used, too. 

There is nothing wrong with buying used cars. 

[GeeGolly]

Thank you all so much for sharing parts of Jill's book. I very much appreciate it.

Does Jill go into why she wrote this book? Most of what I have read here and in articles. is about JB and money. Is there more in the book that is less 'news worthy', but sets the tone of a precautionary tale of the uber religious? Or the difficulties of growing up with authoritarian parents?

 

[Salacious Kitty]

20 minutes ago, Heathen said:

I disagree. I think the phones, at least, must have been new, and probably the Macs that came later. As far as furniture, if I had a passel of feral children who'd be climbing all over it, I'd buy used, too. 

There is nothing wrong with buying used cars. 

There's something wrong with DUGGAR used cars. Hell, they even sold Carlin Bates a lemon. 

[Zella]

I know of only one person who bought a car from them. She's a sibling of a friend, and she's kind of a Jesus freak. The car she bought was a piece of crap, and she was horrified and shocked. When her brother told me this story, I burst out laughing. I never heard anything else about the car. LOL 

[Dehumidifier]

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Thank you all so much for sharing parts of Jill's book. I very much appreciate it.

Does Jill go into why she wrote this book? Most of what I have read here and in articles. is about JB and money. Is there more in the book that is less 'news worthy', but sets the tone of a precautionary tale of the uber religious? Or the difficulties of growing up with authoritarian parents?

 

Money?

She has no years of paid employment on her resume and he has, what?, 2 1/2 maybe 3 years, total?

[Trillium]

6 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Thank you all so much for sharing parts of Jill's book. I very much appreciate it.

Does Jill go into why she wrote this book? Most of what I have read here and in articles. is about JB and money. Is there more in the book that is less 'news worthy', but sets the tone of a precautionary tale of the uber religious? Or the difficulties of growing up with authoritarian parents?

 

There is some things in there, Jill said several times how IBLP made it difficult for her to for against her parents. How she was told that going out from their umbrella of authority would harm her. She also talked about how she was told not to talk to people outside the family and how once she was married she didn’t have a clue how to make friends or be around other people.

 

Part of not being on the show wasn’t just money, they just didn’t want to do it all the time. We snarked a lot on her driving him to Walmart but she said when he wasn’t working the film crew was there, late into the evening. She said the car rides to work was basically the only time the two of them could talk alone.  So when the went to El Salvador there was a time they wanted them to come back for a photo shoot and they said no, we promised we’d be here until July and Jim Bob was doing everything to guilt them, gaslight them into coming back. He and Michelle even showed up unannounced one day.

 

When she wore pants for the first time. She had asked Derick what he thought about while he was watching football and she asked him if it was a sin and if seeing women wearing pants defrauded him and he told her no, and back in the Bible times, men wore robes so it wasn’t a big deal. He didn’t care what she did. And she said she was frustrated because she wanted him to say yes or no, make the decision for her. Because that was how she was raised, Jim Bob made all the choices for her, choosing for herself wasn’t something she knew how to do. 
 

The first time she wore pants (leggings) they went to that Silver Dollar City with the Dillards and then suddenly the Duggars show up, and she spent the whole time avoiding them and just saying hi in passing. Then the next time Jill went to the Big House he asked if she had been wearing pants and scolded her because unlike Jinger, Jill hadn’t talked to him and justified it first. 
 

The funniest non-money thing was when it came out her and Derick drank alcohol, Jim Bob offered to send Derick to the rehab place Josh went to after Ashley Madison (because clearly that place worked) to cure is raging alcoholism. They said no thanks. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Trillium

[ChiCricket]

  I "borrowed " this from a different forum.

I thought it was interesting that TLC paid for all the food from their filmed grocery trips.

Jill said they were able to get much different stuff than what they normally had to eat all the time.

Edited September 17, 2023 by ChiCricket

[Minivanessa]

7 hours ago, Heathen said:

I disagree. I think the phones, at least, must have been new, and probably the Macs that came later. As far as furniture, if I had a passel of feral children who'd be climbing all over it, I'd buy used, too. 

I think so too. I read some snark years ago - maybe it allegedly came from "Alice," the person who told Oprah's production company about Josh's molestations - about the Duggars grifting some of those nice consumer goods. The source said that Josh and Grandma Mary often "worked the phones" to get comped merch. I think that if we saw an item on the show with the brand visible, it was probably comped for "promotional consideration" by the manufacturer. I remember some big-*ss Apple MacBook laptops being quite visible, once in a scene in the girls' dorm being used by I think Jana. If her phone was identifiable as a Motorola Razr, I think it was probably comped too. Also, I think JB would have been okay with buying nice new phones for himself and Meech, and nice gear for the Crown Prince, because, priorities.

1 hour ago, Trillium said:

When she wore pants for the first time. She had asked Derick what he thought about while he was watching football and she asked him if it was a sin and if seeing women wearing pants defrauded him and he told her no, and back in the Bible times, men wore robes so it wasn’t a big deal. He didn’t care what she did. And she said she was frustrated because she wanted him to say yes or no, make the decision for her. Because that was how she was raised, Jim Bob made all the choices for her, choosing for herself wasn’t something she knew how to do. 

I loved your whole post, but that part made me smile. I remember how she described that scene. It sounded so darn normal. Husband watching a recorded football game on TV, wife asking questions; he pauses the playback to answer her a few times and then each time goes back to the game. He wasn't blowing her off, he did consider and answer her questions, but he didn't get all up in her business about it. As you said, he left it to her, and that was scary new territory for her: making her own decision.

Oh I was SO loving the snark when she wrote that after hearing that Derick had consumed one beer, JB "offered to send Derick to the same rehab facility Josh had been to, in the hope of curing Derick’s clearly raging alcoholism. Since he’d never been drunk or ever had more than two beers in any one sitting, Derick declined." I may have laughed out loud when I read that.