Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Normades]

On 3/24/2017 at 5:02 PM, Natalie68 said:

On 3/24/2017 at 4:56 PM, Normades said:

OMG!  My uber religious uncle used that word for years when I was a kid.  This is not something new or special to the Duggars.  I HATE IT!!!

Well, my doc says those doo-hickeys, so I guess he must be reputable.  I was thinking about looking for a new doc, cuz the back of the van gets so crowded during flu season.  :)

Is it down by the river??

Why yes.  Yes it is.  I thought I saw someone named Natalie sitting on the bumper/waiting room last time I was there!! :)

[TresGatos]

What I took away from Jilly Muffin's most recent post is the young girl who died of a head injury said the girl had been coming to "skills training" for weeks but then she turns around and said the girl had been dead for weeks before Jilly learned about it.

[sometimesy]

8 hours ago, TresGatos said:

What I took away from Jilly Muffin's most recent post is the young girl who died of a head injury said the girl had been coming to "skills training" for weeks but then she turns around and said the girl had been dead for weeks before Jilly learned about it.

born again

[Arwen Evenstar]

I think I'll just call them The Dilly Disasters....they really are sad, slip shod, wannabe missionaries. I just can't with these people.

[Nysha]

10 hours ago, TresGatos said:

 

What I took away from Jilly Muffin's most recent post is the young girl who died of a head injury said the girl had been coming to "skills training" for weeks but then she turns around and said the girl had been dead for weeks before Jilly learned about it.

 

 

Did Jill meet her on their last trip to D.A or was she just someone she had heard about?

[Sew Sumi]

I'm not going to read it again, but now that you mention it, that detail was left quite vague. Jill IMPLIED something that may or may not be true: that she'd met the girl before. It's very possible that she'd just heard of her being "saved" as they ventured into whatever country they were missioncationing in this time. 

[GeeGolly]

7 hours ago, Nysha said:

Did Jill meet her on their last trip to D.A or was she just someone she had heard about?

The paragraph, which I find rather cold BTW, starts out "We learned ..." and ends "... she prayed to receive Jesus ,,, in the end of 2016".  Jill acknowledges that it was a "sad moment" for the village. It appears this young teen was one of "the lady's" students.

How about something like: It's with sadness that we learned about a strong teenager who was overcoming adversity, had recently passed away. Senorita T who suffered with seizures, was learning to make and sell pinatas to help support her family while her mom was incarcerated. The entire village including Senora L embraced this courageous young lady, who embraced Jesus last year, and she will be missed by all. We will be having a special service honoring Senorita T and will hang her last pinata, finished by her friends, to remind all of Senorita T's infectious smile, creativity, strength and courage.

[Catlyn]

GeeGolly, as if Jill would even be able to understand the empathy that it would take to write that. The Duggars are two-dimensional. They lack depth of feeling, it has been Gotharded out of them. 

[RazzleberryPie]

I'd so love to find out the locals were scamming Jill and totally made up the whole piñata maker story, because 1) that's a sad death and is love to think it didn't happen, and 2) grifting the grifters is sorta ironic and entertaining. Also 3) piñata making might be a fun Hobby and keep kids out of trouble, but is it really lucrative enough to be a career? Doesn't sound like they're in a heavy tourist area where there would be a market of people with disposable income for stuff like that.

Edited March 28, 2017 by RazzleberryPie
Typos galore = thanks, phone.

[satrunrose]

2 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

I'd so learn to find out the locals were scanning Jill and totally made up the whole piñata maker story, because 1) that's a sad death and is love to think it didn't happen, and 2) grifting the grifters is sorta ironic and entertaining. Also 3) piñata making might be a fun Hobby and keep kids out of trouble, but is it really lucrative enough to be a career? Doesn't sound like they're in a heavy tourist area where they're be a market of people with disposable income for stuff like that.

Yeah, the piñata part is throwing me too. I know starting or supporting small businesses to make jewelry or other small items is common in development work, but why piñatas? I doubt they would be big sellers in the local community because of the cost of gifts and candy to fill them and they seem really awkward and fragile for tourists to lug home (Plus why go to all that trouble for something you're going to smash?). A quick google also suggests that piñatas are more associated with Mexico than DA so it isn't even like they're trying to help people monetize a traditional local craft product. My guess would be it goes along with a...hem...problematic attitude by SOS and the Dillards toward the community that they're working in. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there had been some criticism around Sos's focus on dancing for Jesus so they decided to pay lip service to community development with piñatas. 'Cause South Americans love piñatas, right?

[doodlebug]

57 minutes ago, satrunrose said:

Yeah, the piñata part is throwing me too. I know starting or supporting small businesses to make jewelry or other small items is common in development work, but why piñatas? I doubt they would be big sellers in the local community because of the cost of gifts and candy to fill them and they seem really awkward and fragile for tourists to lug home (Plus why go to all that trouble for something you're going to smash?). A quick google also suggests that piñatas are more associated with Mexico than DA so it isn't even like they're trying to help people monetize a traditional local craft product. My guess would be it goes along with a...hem...problematic attitude by SOS and the Dillards toward the community that they're working in. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there had been some criticism around Sos's focus on dancing for Jesus so they decided to pay lip service to community development with piñatas. 'Cause South Americans love piñatas, right?

It's also possible that they were just making piñatas for fun.  While my mission group does support a lot of different skills training to help families augment their income, we also do some stuff, especially with the kids and teens, that is just plain fun and has no other purpose.  Kids in developing countries deserve just as much chance to have fun and be kids as kids who aren't so poor.

Of course, knowing the Duggars and their version of fundie, I'm not sure having fun is part of the equation for any child. The little Duggars run wild at home because there's no one around who cares enough to channel their energy elsewhere.  I don't think the Duggars are of the same ilk as the Maxwells, but I know Papa Maxwell has posted multiple screeds about how ungodly it is to let kids play and have fun when they should be reading the Bible, doing housework and earning a living.

[satrunrose]

Ah, I read Jill's report as making piñatas for skills training, which struck me as a big waste of everybody's time. If it was really more of a mess around with papier-mâché during youth group thing then I agree, bring on the fun! (Although I will persist in side-eyeing the cold way she presented this tragedy). 

[bluefaun]

One of the Mexican grocery stores in my town has a lot of nice piñatas for sale. Perhaps they could be working on some sort of "fair trade" sort of deal? Maybe that's too generous!

[RazzleberryPie]

4 hours ago, satrunrose said:

Ah, I read Jill's report as making piñatas for skills training, which struck me as a big waste of everybody's time. If it was really more of a mess around with papier-mâché during youth group thing then I agree, bring on the fun! (Although I will persist in side-eyeing the cold way she presented this tragedy). 

I read it as skills training, too. These people don't do anything for fun. Big part of Gothard's rules is they purpose to do everything. Idle hands are the devil's work. No just hanging out or having friends over. Instead it's fellowshipping with like minded individuals. You don't just make dinner, you purpose to nourish your bodies for the work of God. You don't just listen to your kids tell about their day, you have family training time to develop their character. You don't ask somebody if they've seen any good movies lately. You seek wise counsel to make focused, sound decisions, etc. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by RazzleberryPie

[Marigold]

My younger daughters and I were watching some old 19Kids & Counting episodes when Jill was newly married and then pregnant with Izzy.  (Just goofing around and finding old stuff on the DVR)

Previously, Jill smiled, looked happy, was social and tried to be  entertaining.  Now? She seems very distant, disengaged and sad. 

The difference in Jill is actually startling. I rewound a few THs because I could not believe how cheery and engaging she was compared to how she is now.  Wow. Very sad for whatever she is going through without any support.   

I know we have analyzed this to death but it really jumps out when you see clips from 2 years ago. 

If I were Jim Bob and Michelle, I would be very concerned about Jill and ashamed about the Josh situation that probably pushed her over the edge. 

[Nysha]

22 minutes ago, Marigold said:

 

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Marigold said:

The difference in Jill is actually startling. I rewound a few THs because I could not believe how cheery and engaging she was compared to how she is now.  Wow. Very sad for whatever she is going through without any support.   

 

 

Given how bad Derrick looks now compared to then, I wonder if he has been going through a major illness that they can't/won't reveal. 

Or she's finally figured out that her parents prepared her for absolutely nothing as far as life skills go and she's terrified and depressed because it's all down hill from here.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Nysha
My first quote box wouldn't let me comment & the second one won't let me delete the first one.

[MunichNark]

The Dullards are now an a level with Smuggar as far as loathsome goes. They may even top it if they continue like this.

Both clearly have major health issues, probably physical AND psychological. Derick is worldy enough to know this. Jill, well........dumb as anything, her Mother's daughter to be sure.

I don't understand these people, they are so happy to just run headlong into disaster and won't do anything about it.

[ginger90]

Did we ever hear more about Jill and the corotoid artery concern?

[Barb23]

34 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Did we ever hear more about Jill and the corotoid artery concern?

Of course not.  We'll have just have to  "wait and see."

It would be nice though if they could find room to squeeze in telling us about Jill's & Derick's health concerns. But they have so many courtships, weddings, pregnancies, babies, etc. to tell us about, we'll never find out.

[Natalie68]

On 3/27/2017 at 6:10 AM, Normades said:

Why yes.  Yes it is.  I thought I saw someone named Natalie sitting on the bumper/waiting room last time I was there!! :)

HA!  I hang out there for the company!

[JoanArc]

For comparison - both pregnancy announcements.

[AnnieBeez]

14 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

For comparison - both pregnancy announcements.

I think Jill looks better in the second. Derick just looks like a different guy. 

[GeeGolly]

21 hours ago, Marigold said:

My younger daughters and I were watching some old 19Kids & Counting episodes when Jill was newly married and then pregnant with Izzy.  (Just goofing around and finding old stuff on the DVR)

Previously, Jill smiled, looked happy, was social and tried to be  entertaining.  Now? She seems very distant, disengaged and sad. 

The difference in Jill is actually startling. I rewound a few THs because I could not believe how cheery and engaging she was compared to how she is now.  Wow. Very sad for whatever she is going through without any support.   

I know we have analyzed this to death but it really jumps out when you see clips from 2 years ago. 

If I were Jim Bob and Michelle, I would be very concerned about Jill and ashamed about the Josh situation that probably pushed her over the edge. 

21 hours ago, Nysha said:

Given how bad Derrick looks now compared to then, I wonder if he has been going through a major illness that they can't/won't reveal. 

Or she's finally figured out that her parents prepared her for absolutely nothing as far as life skills go and she's terrified and depressed because it's all down hill from here.

I really think the problem was/is Jill's arrested development. There is a saying, something like "Youth is wasted on the young". Most of us are eased into responsibilities and adult life and by the time we're adulting full time we've adjusted any hopes and dreams to better fit with reality. Jill was not given any opportunities to experience anything like say - OMG, yay, I got hired at the local coffee shop!!"  And then a month later "Oh shit I can't go to the movies with you because I have a job at the local coffee shop."

Jill went into marriage and motherhood with the mentality of a teenager. She then went to DA with the mentality of a DUGGAR teenager.  She basically went from sunshine, rainbows and unicorns to a c section, isolation and fear. That might change my demeanor too.

[Marigold]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I really think the problem was/is Jill's arrested development.

Very true.

And then, sadly, we have the standard Duggar issues mixed in with someone who was molested by their brother. 

Doesn't a sexual trauma also arrest development? 

Poor Jill. 

[awaken]

 Reading/thinking so much about the Dillards in danger America has inspired me to reread the poisonWood Bible. I read it first in my 20s,  now getting a lot more out of it a couple decades later, thinking about their mindset and approach to missionary work! 

[GeeGolly]

6 hours ago, Marigold said:

Very true.

And then, sadly, we have the standard Duggar issues mixed in with someone who was molested by their brother. 

Doesn't a sexual trauma also arrest development? 

Poor Jill. 

Not typically in the way that drug use which quickly escalates into addiction might have that effect. As far as Jill is concerned she stated that the only impact the molestation has had on her adult life was it being made public. I choose to believe her. Traumatic events are very personal and pushing feelings that aren't expressed or identified can be has harmful as not believing the event even happened.

If a survivor is not expressing negative feelings it may because they're not consciously or even subconsciously ready or the trauma's negative impact didn't last much beyond the event. Not all traumas cause a life long impact and/or develop into PTSD. The thought that every traumatic event and the significance of an event causes long term issues is not true. We all interpret life in our own unique way and have different levels of resiliency. Even twins. Twins can experience the same traumatic event and one could be impacted significantly and the other not at all.

As a Clinician I will always believe a survivor's interpretation of a trauma because not doing so can cause harm.

[louannems]

But does that mean that we believe Jill when she says she wasn't even aware of the molestation?  She was asleep ?  I personally thought Jill just said that to minimize and not wish to remember.

[Guest]

Jill looks so good with the lip color in the first photo.

[Lemur]

Awwww, Derrick, his jaw is still all janky.  Perhaps that's why he insists on the facial hair.

[doodlebug]

37 minutes ago, louannems said:

But does that mean that we believe Jill when she says she wasn't even aware of the molestation?  She was asleep ?  I personally thought Jill just said that to minimize and not wish to remember.

Or, it could be that she is telling the truth and/or doesn't want to share the truth with the general public.  The Duggars have always shown a public face of being happy and content and no problems at all because: Jesus!  I hope that Jill's personal feelings about the molestation have been addressed, but I and the rest of the public aren't entitled to know the specifics and I am fine with Jill or any other victim deciding not to share.

Edited March 30, 2017 by doodlebug

[lascuba]

44 minutes ago, louannems said:

But does that mean that we believe Jill when she says she wasn't even aware of the molestation?  She was asleep ?  I personally thought Jill just said that to minimize and not wish to remember.

I believe her and Jessa about that. It's known that the other two sister were awake and aware when Josh assaulted them, so I don't think Jill would feel the need to lie.

I've always taken Jill at her word that for her the trauma was the media attention, not the molestation itself--the subtext being that it was her and her family no longer being media darlings that really put her over the edge. She was pissed and openly disinterested during that sex abuse special...she didn't think she had to be there and made it a point to say she liked the parts that resembled what her parents did with Josh. She and the rest of them find the Ashley Madison thing a bigger deal than the abuse, and her change in demeanor is probably also due to her embarrassment at having put her neck out for Josh and then having that come out.

Edited March 30, 2017 by lascuba

[Ripley68]

In the comparison pics:  Derrick's jaw looks a lot better, but I have to say when comparing them, he doesn't really look that much skinnier.  Jill looks better in the second because she's not loaded down with makeup!

[Jellybeans]

I like the second picture better.  They look less Duggarish.

[Marigold]

15 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

As a Clinician I will always believe a survivor's interpretation of a trauma because not doing so can cause harm.

definitely agree with you. 

I just hope Jill is as fine as she says she is, ya know?

She looks a bit unglued but we only see what TLC shows us. For all we know, Jill is doing really well and the few minutes of her looking miserable are immediately put into an episode to create some interest in her character. 

I do 100% believe that Jill was VERY traumatized from the situation made public and for that, I feel very bad for her. 

[floridamom]

I still find it strange that Jessa acted in that interview like the 'Josh incident' didn't phase her in the least. Jill was a mess on camera about it. If it really wasn't a big thing to BOTH OF THEM, why did Jill react as she did? This coming to public knowledge, if not a big thing, shouldn't have really phased Jill. To me, their on camera emotions don't match up to that if you look at Jill.

[SMama]

People are very different in terms of their reaction to trauma. Jessa comes across as stoic, while Jill is a raw nerve. They were both sexually assaulted by their brother, and will forever deal with the emotional aftermath. Thanks to their parents' neglect and further victimization. Jessa and Jill have different personalities, use different coping mechanisms, but are equally traumatized. Also my cynic side thinks Jessa is hyper conscious about the brand, keeping the gravy train chugging along. She is married to a child, and already has two children, with no employment prospects. And still plans to breed till she drops, or her uterus ruptures. Someone has to feed them, and it is not Bin.  

Edited March 31, 2017 by SMama

[Absolom]

Jill falls apart easily and it seems is getting steadily worse.  Her life seems to in one way be following the trajectory she said she wanted, but at the same time seems to not be what she expected.  She doesn't have the background or ability to deal with that reality and fix the problems in her life.  All she knows is plaster over the surface with a "good attitude" and her life has spun too far out of her control for that to work.  She's a mess with no true idea how to cope and has been pretty much since her wedding. 

[Churchhoney]

On 3/29/2017 at 6:54 PM, MischaMouse said:

I think Jill looks better in the second. Derick just looks like a different guy. 

Dare I say it -- the picture contrasts suggests to me that maybe, just maybe, Jill may be gradually becoming herself and not just what she was molded to be. .... Unfortunately for her, that's a very very long process that most people are allowed -- even, for the very lucky, encouraged -- to begin at a much earlier age. She was in her 20s before she could even dare to begin, and first she would have had to figure out that it was even an option. Another "no wonder she's so messed up," to me. 

On 3/30/2017 at 9:14 AM, louannems said:

But does that mean that we believe Jill when she says she wasn't even aware of the molestation?  She was asleep ?  I personally thought Jill just said that to minimize and not wish to remember.

Well, I'm no kind of clinician and have never even played one on tv. Buut I think it means that we believe that that is exactly the way she remembers it/sees it/chooses to present it now? .... Although the way we remember things or think of them at one time may change as we change? .... But nobody should try in any way to push or pull her to having a different view, just because a different view seems right to them? 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Dare I say it -- the picture contrasts suggests to me that maybe, just maybe, Jill may be gradually becoming herself and not just what she was molded to be. .... Unfortunately for her, that's a very very long process that most people are allowed -- even, for the very lucky, encouraged -- to begin at a much earlier age. She was in her 20s before she could even dare to begin, and first she would have had to figure out that it was even an option. Another "no wonder she's so messed up," to me. 

Well, I'm no kind of clinician and have never even played one on tv. Buut I think it means that we believe that that is exactly the way she remembers it/sees it/chooses to present it now? .... Although the way we remember things or think of them at one time may change as we change? .... But nobody should try in any way to push or pull her to having a different view, just because a different view seems right to them? 

Yup. Jill said she didn't even know it happened, that her parents told her about it and that it doesn't impact her now. She said it was a long time ago and that she had moved past it. She felt it was wrong that the media was talking about something that was personal and she felt like a victim because of the invasion of privacy.

What Jill said makes sense to me. And personally I think it's unfair to call her, or any survivor of molestation, psychologically damaged. 

[SMama]

I don't think of it as psychologically damaged, but there's definitely an emotional aftermath. Twelve years working with and forensic interviews with foster care/sexually abused children taught me that. It also showed me what children will do to survive situations that would have me curling into a fetal position, and disassociating. Coping mechanisms are as varied and complexed, as the many survivors of abuse. 

[Marigold]

I tend to agree. Jill might not have been very affected by the molestation. Maybe she really meant it when she said it wasn't a huge deal to her.  I hope so. 

I do think she has been very affected by it being made public. Jill is aware of the public's reaction to it and that seemed to upset her deeply. 

Honestly, sometimes I feel funny posting about Jill and this situation. Then I realize that they are a public family and Jill benefits greatly from being a TLC "star". Then I think about the fact that she was a minor and she deserves privacy. Back and forth in my mind...  ;)

[Absolom]

I would have been fine not talking about it until Jill and Jessa made a TV show out of it.

[SMama]

I do not fault them for being on TV as minors. But Jill and Jessa did the interview as adults.  OK, chronologically they were adults. What upset me was their arrogance about sexual assault not being a big deal. Because Jesus.

I also was appalled when Jill claimed social services staff told them what a wonderful job their parents did. Sorry but FUCKING BULLSHIT.

I can't see a decent social worker praising parents who colluded to hide sexual assault. Let alone when the "safeguard" was to lock the girls' in their dorm. What about locking Joshley in the AV room?

Sorry, I really need to shut up, but their ignorance, and outright arrogance is offensive. I have immense respect for survivors of abuse.  I sat with many during their real therapy sessions when they could not bear walking in alone. I saw the pain, fear, the scars they will forever carry.

 

Fuck you Duggars!

 

Rant over.

[Mollie]

4 minutes ago, SMama said:

I can't see a decent social worker praising parents who colluded to hide sexual assault. Let alone when the "safeguard" was to lock the girls' in their dorm. What about locking Joshley in the AV room?

The two youngest girls were molested in the laundry room and in the living room.  The visiting babysitter was molested in the living room.  Obviously a lock on the girls' bedroom did not stop the attacks.  Josh should have been removed from the home and sent to an all-boys boarding school far away.  

[Sew Sumi]

Agreed, @SMama. However, Boob decided that in order to try and stop the bleeding, he had to go on teevee and glibly explain Smuggar's exploits away. They could have stopped there, but they trotted out the two victims who just happened to be married, although, as is the worst kept secret in town, there was another adult female victim living in that house. 

Jill and/or Jessa could have said no, but Jessa had a baby coming with no guarantees that the show would continue, and Jill was headed to Danger America. They needed the money. That's where MY sympathy for them ended. If it was no big deal to the point that those two didn't even know it happened, and it was no big deal, then why go on teevee and make it a big deal? Oh yeah, someone did some research and uncovered paydirt. THAT is why the girls participated. They felt they were victims of the ebil librul media, not their brother, whose molestations escalated. They ALL knew that and still defended him on the Megyn Kelly interviews. 

I will continue to use the word "SLY" at every opportunity when I see these people trying to deflect or hide past nefarious deeds. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[Marigold]

I wonder if Jim Bob would do things differently, knowing now what he didn't know then? 

I wonder if Jill and Jessa would've done that stupid FOX interview if they had known he was a cheater?

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, SMama said:

I don't think of it as psychologically damaged, but there's definitely an emotional aftermath. Twelve years working with and forensic interviews with foster care/sexually abused children taught me that. It also showed me what children will do to survive situations that would have me curling into a fetal position, and disassociating. Coping mechanisms are as varied and complexed, as the many survivors of abuse. 

I agree that survivors of trauma can suffer greatly and many for the rest of their lives. And I have worked with a great many where the impact was minimal and some who can move forward rather quickly. I also have learned how hard it is for survivors to work on their traumas, one on one with a trusted therapist.  One of the most common themes I see with survivors is their need for privacy and control in regard to their traumas. Maybe this is mostly where I'm coming from. I guess I'm feeling the need to protect Jill & Jessa in the same way I would be protecting the many folks I have worked with over 20+ years.

[kokapetl]

If you have no sympathy for the victims, I don't think you're entitled to be outraged about what Josh did to them. 

How an individual handles their assault is not for the general public to critique. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Kokapetl

[SMama]

@GeeGolly I hear you, it's such a dilemma. Some survivors are very private about their experiences. Others can talk about it, hoping to help others. Ironically, Jaycee Dugar, and Elizabeth Smart come to mind. I could never comprehend their pain. FFS Jaycee had two daughters by (can't say with, it was not her choice) her tormentor. Both ladies retreated into privacy, they received help by professionals. When they were ready they  told their story, then back to their private lives. No grifting, no it wasn't a big deal interviews. I know Jill and Jessa did not experience the same level of abuse. But it would benefit them to learn class. I'm sure Jaycee and Elizabeh could teach them a lot.

I'm going to give myself a time out, because I'm not making sense. I have not given myself a timeout since SBaby was getting 79 page weekly assignment packets in kindergarten. Sorry guys.

[Absolom]

39 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

there was another adult female victim living in that house. 

I don't think so.  I think that one was still a minor.