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Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

Chris Knight

By Chris Knight
in Counting On

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Shout out to everyone participating in the conversation about Jill’s miscarriage/stillbirth. You’re navigating a difficult topic with respect and thoughtfulness and your contributions are kind, considerate, constructive and informative. 

Thank you. 💚💚

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lascuba

lascuba

15 minutes ago, Missy Vixen said:

Jessa may be the one to bring KJB's house of cards down if she and Bin work together. The question is, however -- would she actually do it?

I think no under current circumstances, because she probably knows that she nd Ben can't hack it any other way. It would be beautiful to witness, though. Like if something were to happen and she decided she no longer believed? It would be epic. She'd burn the whole empire down.

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lascuba

lascuba

44 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I agree that Jessa would not have volunteered any struggles she might have had if she went to Danger America, but other situations that have been filmed makes me think she would have struggled there. She couldn't even retrieve random roses that were within 2 feet of a stranger during her engagement scavenger hunt, she was unable to make small talk with the religious music dude and his wife and she appeared uncomfortable with Sierra and random-friend-lady on the way to the surprise baby shower. Jessa might not have feared being a white-lady-with-a-white-baby in Central America but she is not very bold or confident talking to anyone outside the Duggar circle.

 

I agree. I don't think she would have been at all happy or productive because she is not comfortable with unknowns, but she wouldn't have become a mess over it. 

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Christina87

Christina87

57 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Like I've said before I feel Jill was forced into real life before she grew out of the life is a fairy tale stage.

I think things would have been exponentially better for Jill if she had been allowed to stay in Arkansas after izzy's birth! Something tells me that she would have had Jana and Joy as constant help at her house, and could have enjoyed her sisters' company as she bonded with Izzy. It would have been a great excuse to not be alone in the house all day! In that environment, she likely would have seen Izzy as another buddy, and I truly believe they would have a regular mother/child bond. Derick would probably still look normal, and she would be used to him being away all day now. 

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MyPeopleAreNordic

MyPeopleAreNordic

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8 hours ago, Ljohnson1987 said:

Poor Jill. We really empathize that you have all day sickness and have another child to care for. Welcome to the real world, sweetie. Try doing that, and having a full time job.  If you can't handle the all day sickness, maybe popping out a bunch of kids isn't for you. 

Dear Jill,

I had my Fallopian tubes removed last month. One of the reasons I did so is because I did NOT like being pregnant and the physical toll it took on my body,

It was a much easier recovery than the vaginal births of my two kids and (what I imagine) a C-section recovery would be.

If you have baby #2 with an OB and have a C-section, you & Derrick can talk talk the OB beforehand and he or she will can easily remove yours as well. No one ever has to know. And you wouldn't even have any extra recovery from the procedure if you'd had a section. If that doesn't work out for you, you can always have one later if you decide and tell everyone you're having gallbladder surgery. Your secret would be safe with me. 

Think about it.

-MyPeopleAreNordic 

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queenanne

queenanne

(edited)
5 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

So...if that was mistranslated, what else was mistranslated? God's word is perfect and without error, no? (I don't think it was a mistranslation. Jesus made wine.)

 

4 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Yeah, I never got the Fundy argument about grape juice or they drank wine because water wasn't safe to drink. Once they realized my arguments showed I was not convinced, they admitted this was a standard they had set for themselves. I don't have a problem with that in principle, but why not just say so at the get go? 

Vineyards and olive groves were cultivated for olive oil and wine well before the time of Christ. Ancient civilizations long learned about fermentation by using stomachs of animals to carry milk, and the rennet as well as the shaking on horseback or camel or donkey or of curdled the proteins in the milk..they were hungry ate it anyway and pronounced it delicious .  Just as grape juice ferments due the sugars and storage.

Hear, hear.  Jesus even explained the animal stomachs, or the "wineskins".  Clearly the fermentation process is the part where it eats away at said wineskins.

2 hours ago, Portia said:

On the no-alcohol thing . . . When my kids were in Junior High/HS Sunday School, I always wondered why someone would twist the Scriptures to "prove" that all drinking is sinful instead of talking practically with young people about what a Christian's attitude toward alcohol should be. The Bible actually does talk about drinking in moderation, and Lord knows young people need good information about alcoholism, impaired driving, and other alcohol-related issues.

I'm guessing partly because laziness, and it's easier to control people by adding it to a "shalt not", than it is to do those things.  Plus if the Puritans taught it, good enough for me!! (/sarc)

Edited by queenanne
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JoanArc

JoanArc

43 minutes ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

If you have baby #2 with an OB and have a C-section, you & Derrick can talk talk the OB beforehand and he or she will can easily remove yours as well. No one ever has to know. And you wouldn't even have any extra recovery from the procedure if you'd had a section. If that doesn't work out for you, you can always have one later if you decide and tell everyone you're having gallbladder surgery. Your secret would be safe with me. 

 

She could read a book without anyone ever knowing, too.

she has no problem with pregnancy, just kids themselves, like dear old mom.

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cmr2014

cmr2014

2 hours ago, Christina87 said:

I think things would have been exponentially better for Jill if she had been allowed to stay in Arkansas after izzy's birth! Something tells me that she would have had Jana and Joy as constant help at her house, and could have enjoyed her sisters' company as she bonded with Izzy. It would have been a great excuse to not be alone in the house all day! In that environment, she likely would have seen Izzy as another buddy, and I truly believe they would have a regular mother/child bond. Derick would probably still look normal, and she would be used to him being away all day now. 

I can see what you're saying, but I think that the trip to DA was her one real chance in life. She's so wildly naive and immature that the entire thing was bound to be traumatic for her, but if she was ever going to grow up and become and adult and have her own life this was her chance. She could have taken the opportunity to bond with her husband and her son, and thrown herself into her "work" and grown some as a person. She couldn't -- or wouldn't -- do it, and I think that the "missionary" life may be done for good.

FWIW, I don't think that there's anything surprising about her lack of bond with Izzy, and I think being around the TTH all the time would have done nothing in that regard. She is a serious kool-aide drinker and completely believes that the way she was raised was the bestest possible way to be brought up. If they had stayed in AR, I think she would have come over to the TTH daily and let him run with the feral pack of littles while she lolled around with her siblings.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

11 hours ago, Totally said:

I don't believe Jessa is missing out in the 'help' department. I'd be surprised if she is doing her own cleaning, laundry or cooking. 

Yeah, I get the feeling that if you're a married-with-children Duggar you get the services of other Duggar women and girls. What the heck else are they good for, anyway? Gotta keep 'em busy enough to squash any other ideas, too.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

3 hours ago, Missy Vixen said:

Jessa may be the one to bring KJB's house of cards down if she and Bin work together. The question is, however -- would she actually do it?

I'm curious because I can't even envision what it would mean to bring KJB's house down or envision what Bin and Ducklips could do that would accomplish that. What are you thinking of here?

The only thing I could imagine is a mass exodus -- which would leave him personally deflated, but on the other hand it'll still leave all his remaining money with many fewer claimants, so it would have a pretty huge upside.... Or, I guess, a really detailed tell-all book that exposed some pretty hot stuff very clearly. That'd possibly mess up his reputation -- although I doubt that it would affect most of the leghumpers or his contacts in the warped-ends-of-fundiedom since everybody there is just like him, so I'm not sure even that would bring him down in any major sense ....But I don't think I can see Jess and Bin wanting to do or being capable of doing either of those, really. Seems to me Jessa and even Bin by now are too tied up with Jizm Bob's money and his reputation.

What other possible rebellions do you guys envision? I think I'm probably missing some interesting possibilities.

7 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

So...if that was mistranslated, what else was mistranslated? God's word is perfect and without error, no? (I don't think it was a mistranslation. Jesus made wine.)

Some lush temporarily sneaked into the translating team and made this error. They expelled him from the group quickly but then they were too busy to notice and fix his big error. That's why the rest is all perfect.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

1 hour ago, JoanArc said:

She could read a book without anyone ever knowing, too.

she has no problem with pregnancy, just kids themselves, like dear old mom.

Yeah, and Jill and Jessa and the rest of them were so isolated growing up that Meeechelle really is their sole role model for womanhood and motherhood, even more so than other mothers are. And most of what they saw of her happened after she'd flipped out with already having 6? 7? little kids. It's no surprise that they're lazy, big weenies, hand off their kids, don't cook, don't mop under the bed, etc. They imbibed everything they know about motherhood and running a household and so on from somebody who'd gone round the bend into complete dissociation from her family by the time they could see what she was doing. But, as you say, they don't seem to mind pregnancies and births that would terrify most other people. They're copying exactly what they saw.

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Jynnan tonnix

Jynnan tonnix

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, and Jill and Jessa and the rest of them were so isolated growing up that Meeechelle really is their sole role model for womanhood and motherhood, even more so than other mothers are. And most of what they saw of her happened after she'd flipped out with already having 6? 7? little kids. It's no surprise that they're lazy, big weenies, hand off their kids, don't cook, don't mop under the bed, etc. They imbibed everything they know about motherhood and running a household and so on from somebody who'd gone round the bend into complete dissociation from her family by the time they could see what she was doing. But, as you say, they don't seem to mind pregnancies and births that would terrify most other people. They're copying exactly what they saw.

Wait...we're supposed to mop under the bed? Next they'll be telling me I have to vacuum under the couch....

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yogi2014L

yogi2014L

7 hours ago, Portia said:

On the no-alcohol thing . . . When my kids were in Junior High/HS Sunday School, I always wondered why someone would twist the Scriptures to "prove" that all drinking is sinful instead of talking practically with young people about what a Christian's attitude toward alcohol should be. The Bible actually does talk about drinking in moderation, and Lord knows young people need good information about alcoholism, impaired driving, and other alcohol-related issues.

I so agree with this. My parents were not super religious but were very strict on non drinking, and it is a damn miracle I survived college. Every time i drank i got drunk. it took me literally years to learn how to moderate.

 

4 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

Dear Jill,

I had my Fallopian tubes removed last month. One of the reasons I did so is because I did NOT like being pregnant and the physical toll it took on my body,

It was a much easier recovery than the vaginal births of my two kids and (what I imagine) a C-section recovery would be.

If you have baby #2 with an OB and have a C-section, you & Derrick can talk talk the OB beforehand and he or she will can easily remove yours as well. No one ever has to know. And you wouldn't even have any extra recovery from the procedure if you'd had a section. If that doesn't work out for you, you can always have one later if you decide and tell everyone you're having gallbladder surgery. Your secret would be safe with me. 

Think about it.

-MyPeopleAreNordic 

Reminds me of the greys anatomy episode where the catholic mom is having her 6th kid by c section and begs the doctor to "accidentally" tie her tubes. She did. 

I think for Jill she will just botch her labor so badly that they will have to do a hysterectomy. Not on purpose tho, I just don't think she learned anything from the last time. 

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Tabbygirl521

Tabbygirl521

On 1/3/2017 at 10:08 AM, scriggle said:

Because laundry and cleaning are women's work. A manly man like Derrick can't do them. It would be too emasculating.

Ben has been shown doing the ironing. And cooking. I still have some shreds of hope about the guys who have married in. 

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JoanArc

JoanArc

6 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Ben has been shown doing the ironing. And cooking. I still have some shreds of hope about the guys who have married in. 

Yeah, but Derick isn't the dominant partner in the marriage, like Jessa.

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lascuba

lascuba

7 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Ben has been shown doing the ironing. And cooking. I still have some shreds of hope about the guys who have married in. 

I can't decide if that's Ben truly not being a total patriarchal asshole of if it's all Ben and (mostly) Jessa playing to the audience..."Look! The womenfolk aren't oppressed! Men totally do chores, too!" It's like when she called him out on "babysitting" Spurgeon. I didn't believe for a second that that was Jessa expressing a sincere belief. She had simply learned from the hoopla over Derick talking about babysitting Israel and gave us a "Fuck you, internet" moment when she saw the opportunity. There is no way a single member of that family doesn't view fathers being alone with their children as babysitting. Hell, plenty of secular people view it that way. What hope do fundamentalist Christians have?

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Guest

Guest

13 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

Dear Jill,

I had my Fallopian tubes removed last month. One of the reasons I did so is because I did NOT like being pregnant and the physical toll it took on my body,

It was a much easier recovery than the vaginal births of my two kids and (what I imagine) a C-section recovery would be.

If you have baby #2 with an OB and have a C-section, you & Derrick can talk talk the OB beforehand and he or she will can easily remove yours as well. No one ever has to know. And you wouldn't even have any extra recovery from the procedure if you'd had a section. If that doesn't work out for you, you can always have one later if you decide and tell everyone you're having gallbladder surgery. Your secret would be safe with me. 

Think about it.

-MyPeopleAreNordic 

I feel like there was an episode of grey's anatomy that had a lady who didn't want to have any more kids but her husband still wanted them. She asked the surgeon to tie her tubes during her c section.

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Lemur

Lemur

19 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

So...if that was mistranslated, what else was mistranslated? God's word is perfect and without error, no? (I don't think it was a mistranslation. Jesus made wine.)

My personal favorite line on this was a priest who tried to tell us that much like the Eskimos (not Inuit, Eskimos), the ancient Jews had over 40 different words for "wine" and not all of them meant "fermented" or "containing alcohol".  Thank God the priest the next year dispelled that one right quick.  

9 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Wait...we're supposed to mop under the bed? Next they'll be telling me I have to vacuum under the couch....

Just have a brood of kids.  They'll do all the work for you.  You know, like animated animals in a Disney princess movie.

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lascuba

lascuba

4 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Oh my...........what is with this family and this topic lately?  I sense a bigger story between the lines of all these tweets.

Something going on with Jill's fetus and their patting their own backs because they won't consider abortion? Except that's the kind of thing they'd be advertising far and wide.

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DangerousMinds

DangerousMinds

8 minutes ago, Lemur said:

My personal favorite line on this was a priest who tried to tell us that much like the Eskimos (not Inuit, Eskimos), the ancient Jews had over 40 different words for "wine" and not all of them meant "fermented" or "containing alcohol".  Thank God the priest the next year dispelled that one right quick.  

Just have a brood of kids.  They'll do all the work for you.  You know, like animated animals in a Disney princess movie.

A priest said that? Weird, because the Catholic Church usually has no issues with alcohol.

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BradandJanet

BradandJanet

3 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

It seems she hasn't prayed enough for it to happen. Pull your finger out Cathy. 

She may think the time is right now. Maybe she's praying for the end of contraception for women while she's at it. 

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Arwen Evenstar

Arwen Evenstar

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42 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

OMG Miss Cathy!  What's up with you?  What exactly are you doing for anyone who needs any kind of help except spouting off?  Talk is cheap.  Get to work!!

Surely Cathy would know that abortion was illegal when she was born and wouldn't be legal until 1973???

Shame was the only "choice" women had back then, inventing dead husbands during times of war. We also know that abortion won't end, it will just go underground, and wealthier women will travel to Canada, the U.K., and Europe to get it done. It was never about ending the right for the privileged among us, just the vulnerable and powerless.

im sure she's too dim witted to realize that the reason most people who do not want to end choice as we know it today is that they know that coat hangers and knitting needles are not surgical instruments and should never be used again for that purpose. Even people who would never have an abortion but identify as pro choice, understand this and that's why they identify as such.

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

32 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Surely Cathy would know that abortion was illegal when she was born and wouldn't be legal until 1973???

Shame was the only "choice" women had back then, inventing dead husbands during times of war. We also know that abortion won't end, it will just go underground, and wealthier women will travel to Canada, the U.K., and Europe to get it done. It was never about ending the right for the privileged among us, just the vulnerable and powerless.

im sure she's too dim witted to realize that the reason most people who do not want to end choice as we know it today is that they know that coat hangers and knitting needles are not surgical instruments and should never be used again for that purpose. Even people who would never have an abortion but identify as pro choice, understand this and that's why they identify as such.

Cathy has made the claim that when she contacted her birth mother, she said she would have aborted if it had been an option. Who knows how true that statement is. I think Cathy is pissed that her birth mother rejected her.

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

Dear Cathy, screw you. I needed PP as a young adult (long before adult children could be kept on their parents' insurance until age 26 or being a full-time student). No PP? No reliable birth control and maybe a trip there for a (now defunded) abortion. 

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frenchtoast

frenchtoast

Folks, the conversation is starting to be too much about abortion and not about Jill and Derrick. Yes, Cathy tweeted something about abortion. It was not an signal to begin a discussion about it. Back to Jill and Derrick and Izzy please. 

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Christina87

Christina87

9 hours ago, louannems said:

I think the real reason Ben irons and cooks is so he can have ironed shirts and home cooked meals.  Jessa ain't gonna do it.

Me too!!! Jessa is too lazy, and basically lives like a college freshman. I think Jill truly did want to be Super Duper Perfect Housewife at the beginning of their marriage, but didn't know how. I remember so many shots of her dusting the stairs with a bewildered stare. 

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Arwen Evenstar

Arwen Evenstar

On 1/5/2017 at 8:12 PM, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, I get the feeling that if you're a married-with-children Duggar you get the services of other Duggar women and girls. What the heck else are they good for, anyway? Gotta keep 'em busy enough to squash any other ideas, too.

Bbbbbbut...these are servant's hearts in training.

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

I think Cathy needs to have a talk with Derick about ruining future Christmases for Izzy. After Derick's Twitter rant, I sense a bit of backpedaling here. Or Jilly is so out of it that she didn't even know about the tweet. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

47 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Even though there are times, I really wish Miss Cathy would STFU with her tweets, there's no denying how she cherishes Izzy.  Hope she keeps that little lad from being completely Duggarized.

Agree.

Except for maybe the M-kids and maybe Joy's and Austin's future spawn, who may have no other influence but Gothardite types, I expect the battle is already lost to fully Duggarize the rest of the current or soon-on-the-horizon grandchildren, don't you?

They all have other influences, and while the other influences are, admittedly, somewhat on the nutty side as well, they're nowhere near as nuts as JB and M. And none of them thus far (Dillards, Seewalds, Vuolos) seem to be control freaks to nearly the same degree, despite their beliefs.

I attribute my own ability to break the spell to having some outside influences, albeit brief ones and sorta distant ones. For a couple of years when I was really young, I spent the majority of my time with two non-insane relatives. I didn't even remember that time later, but I'm pretty sure that seeing up close how non-control-freaks behaved gave me the perspective required to judge that what went on in my primary home was terrible and, crucially, not the only way that things can be.

So I don't think Jizm Bob can extend his oily reach unto the third generation, for the most part. Unfortunately, he probably won't even really care (because I'd love to see it drive him mad with impotent narcissistic fury).  But by the time these kids grow up, he'll be dead or nearly so, or at least he'll have too many people for a stupid old man to keep track of. And he'll still have enough of a hold on some of his own kids that he can go on feeling like an emperor despite losing the power to sow Jizm-Bob-Believing seed across the whole starry universe.

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queenanne

queenanne

(edited)
16 hours ago, Christina87 said:

Me too!!! Jessa is too lazy, and basically lives like a college freshman. I think Jill truly did want to be Super Duper Perfect Housewife at the beginning of their marriage, but didn't know how. I remember so many shots of her dusting the stairs with a bewildered stare. 

Er... did you mean the banister?  I didn't see said shots so can't judge or recall... if she thinks you're supposed to dust the treads I'd not be surprised to find housekeeping in general is a puzzle for her, but it did cause some amusing images to come about in my head.  Aren't your feet generally dusting the stairs, or at least keeping dust from hanging around long enough to accumulate?

Edited by queenanne
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