Jump to content

Type keyword(s) to search

Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events


  • Start Topic

Recommended Posts

(edited)

This part of Jim Bob and Michelle's statement: “We pray that as people watch our lives they see that we are not a perfect family. We have challenges and struggles every day. It is one of the reasons we treasure our faith so much because God’s kindness and goodness and forgiveness are extended to us – even though we are so undeserving. We hope somehow the story of our journey – the good times and the difficult times – cause you to see the kindness of God and learn that He can bring you through anything.” sounded more like a commercial to me. And all of a sudden they are saying they are not a perfect family, no shit.

Edited by ginger90
Link to comment

It doesn't seem to be quite as clearcut when you're talking about faith-based (frequently unaccredited) counselors.

Increasing numbers of counselors lack education or accreditation as mental health professionals. The Sarasota-based National Christian Counselors Association requires only that its 5,000 members enroll in either a $3,000 eight-course program it developed or a one-course program with its for-profit arm, the Academy of Christian Counseling. And it urges members to shun state licensing so they may be free to promote their religious beliefs. "If a young woman comes into our offices to discuss her pregnancy, we'll tell her abortion is not the way to go," says Steve Baran, the organization's president. "When you're state licensed [as a counselor or therapist], you can't do that because you can't impose your personal beliefs. But as Christians, we need to be able to do that."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200505/god-my-shrink

Link to comment

http://bitterjealousfatties.yuku.com/topic/964/Josh-Duggar-Molested-Sisters#.VWJBUo1FDIU

 

I've seen the "Alice" comments on a couple of sites (I haven't looked around too much) but this one is the most comprehensive. She is commenting back and forth with people but this is only showing her comments. In a couple of them she talks about Josh and pornography. She says he was looking at the internet and all the filth that is on there (paraphrasing)  She knows a lot about the situation and lets it be known that she is willing to tell anyone who asks. I was wondering if Josh or anyone had access to the internet because I never watched the show. Maybe that's what his private videography room was used for.

They all had access to computers, both desktops in the computer room and laptops. I would bet that all of those had been donated to the Duggar family. Reading the article and the statements made by "Alice" I've concluded that she's an older woman judging from some of her terminology such as "a pretty penny' and I also concluded that she's a member of their 'home church'. But I can also see that she isn't highly educated which means she's one of their cult members.

 

“Around 9:00 a.m., the children start their music & individual studies–for grades 3 and up, studies such as Mathematic, Language Arts, Science, and History & Geography are done on the computer with Switched On Schoolhouse,” Michelle said.

 

duggar-home-school.jpg

 

32852_ep804_003.JPG

Link to comment
(edited)

I was divorced in Virginia, though we were married in Florida. (Sound familiar?) We had to reside completely apart for 6 months and had submit a property settlement agreement to the Virginia court before either one of us could file.  I was actually living in Texas at the time, but everything was done by mail and phone.  However, there were no children and no alimony.  Our jobs were comparable and we split all the assets down the middle.

 

An Anna/Josh split would be incredibly detailed and expensive, I have no doubt.  That's why I think it will never be an issue.  She won't do it.

 

If their marriage license was issued in Arkansas, it would be filed there.  The religious ceremony in Florida has nothing to do with where the marriage is registered.  I'm sure Jim Bob & Michelle made sure it was legally registered.

Edited by leighdear
Link to comment

I was talking about "defrauding" as Gothard and the Duggars define it, and my mom said, "Defraud isn't even the right word for dressing immodestly, is it?" She's right. I have no problem with conservative Christians saying, God wants us to dress modestly because private parts are private and we want to draw attention to our faces. I get that -- that is a choice you make about your own body. But here's how the dictionary actually defines defraud: To trick or cheat someone by deceptive means. That puts all the action of the verb squarely on the woman. The man is passive; he has his lustful thoughts thrust upon him by an immodest woman, who is cheating him somehow out of saving all his sexual thoughts for his wife.

 

It is all part of a wide-reaching patriarchal way of thinking where it's all about men. Women are the supporting cast, the helpmeets god created to make his life run smoothly, satisfy his sexual urges, and bear him children. The good ones, that is. The bad ones aren't dressing in shorts and sleeveless shirts because it's 95 degrees out. Everything is based on the male gaze, so she is dressed that way because she is a temptress by nature and wants to steal from him what cannot be righteously fulfilled. Nowhere in there is there room for the fact that he is designed to have sexual thoughts and even a woman wearing a burlap sack isn't going to take that away. How about some emphasis on the fact that we're all human beings worthy of respect?

  • Love 24
Link to comment
(edited)

According to Alice, it was the 2nd eldest daughter who told on Josh. ETA: I don't know if this is the specific violation that prompted her to tell on Josh or not.

Interesting, bc many years later he referred to this sibling as a 'snitch' on the All about Jill episode last year.

Oh my gosh. That all makes sense now. Makes me feel sick. I don't think he felt/feels any remorse for what he did, just from that remark. People who are truly sorry for things they do don't say stuff like THAT about the person who "told" on them. Especially about such terrible things. Edited by juneday
  • Love 11
Link to comment

""Counseling" is a very ambiguous word. A person could have a heart to heart talk with their grandmother and they would not be lying if they said they had received "counseling". Any idiot can hang a shingle outside their door or place an ad in the paper claiming to be a therapist. There is no regulatory body overseeing "therapists"."

Nope. Therapists must have at least a Master's degree and work under a licensed clinician or be licensed themselves. There are multiple various regulatory bodies overseeing therapists depending on the degree, Counselor, on the other hand can be ambiguous, but most, outside of religious organizations, have a Bachelor's degree.

When did licensing and accreditation ever mean anything to the Duggars? My gut reaction to the word "counseling" was that it was some sort of Gothard speak that roughly meant someone listened to Josh's side of the story and gave some advice, and that's about it. 

 

As we've seen on a few links posted here, most of the Gothard advice blames the parents and the victims for not maintaining modesty and allowing molestation to happen, while placing very little accountability on the molestor. 

  • Love 9
Link to comment

I don't think Anna will divorce Josh. She'd really have nowhere to go. Her parents live in a tiny double-wide. Josh is going to be unemployable for the forseeable future so she won't see much money in alimony or child support. All her kids are under five. She has no education, no work history and no job skills. The most she could hope for is a minimum wage starter job which wouldn't cover diapers let alone rent, food and child care. I feel for Anna but this is a very good lesson to teach your daughters about why you don't say to hell with education/job training and put your entire well being in the hands of your husband. If you're a SAHM with a degree you have that insurance in the event that life implodes.

  • Love 12
Link to comment

I was just thinking about what is going on in Josh and Anna's home.

Is Josh just puking 24 hours a day? Is Anna really freaking out but staying calm in her statments? Are they holed up in their house just crying just loosing it?

Not that I CARE about Josh's reaction...I'm just curious.

Do they have those crisis manager people celebrities get? Is Jim Bobe like FLIPPING FURIOUS at Josh? Have the girls called Josh?

I'd love to know how the Duggars are really reacting to this in private.

  • Love 13
Link to comment

I had read that the molestation took place in the communal bedroom of the girls. Which to me, is even worse than the molestation taking place in a closet or in a computer room or ANYWHERE else in that house. The little ones were there in their own twin beds during these incidents. I had read one article that made light of the whole thing by saying that "he touched her breasts and vaginal area and all the while the girl was reading a book."  Holy shit, how could anyone try to make it sound as though the girl was bored and not alarmed or scared?  If any one of the girls was 'reading a book' while being sexually molested by her older brother, it was probably the Bible and she was asking for forgiveness for causing him to lust and do that to her. That's the way this cult thinks.

No, sorry to confuse. The incidents took place before they moved to the new TTH. Posters were asking if Josh had his own space in the new house possibly to keep him separate and the discussion was that it seemed there was only the studio space in the boy's room so I looked up the floor plans and noted a closet.
Link to comment

Anna won't divorce Josh, but not for her lack of job skills. She won't divorce him, because she believes he repented and is reformed. The molestation is over and done.

 

I think she will stay with him more as a fucked up way to avoid humilation.  She can stay with him and lie about how she is at peace because of forgiveness and all that stuff, which in a way saves face, or she can leave and essentially admit that she made a mistake in marrying Josh.  Remember, being married to Josh and having kids is her entire life.  She has no other life experiences outside this.  This is it for her, and she has publicly made a huge deal out of being completely thrilled with this and nothing else.   

 

This chick has all her eggs in one basket.  She sort of reminds me of like a senator's wife who gave up everything just to be His Wife.  She is sort of trapped into "standing by her man" at that point, no matter what he has done.  

 

Personally I will never understand women who get themselves into such positions.  We are quite literally the first generation of women in the entire history of humanity who have the ability to get the education, skills, and experience we need to always be able to take care of ourselves if it ever comes to that.  I am 33 and my own grandmother (two generations ago) had to get married and had to rely on a man her entire life.  These fundies are foolish to think that was a golden age for families and women.  

  • Love 15
Link to comment
(edited)

Looks like May 26-29 there's an ATI conference in Nashville. The Duggars a featured speakers. I made screen grabs of the program flyer, in case they vanish. The Bateses and Wallers are going to be there too.

 

I'm rapidly losing faith in humanity. I'm sure they'll go and be welcomed with opened arms.

 

http://familyconferences.org/

 

I couldn't agree more. Its sickening. 

 

As someone who was also sexually abused by a family member, I can say that I chose to forgive the person who abused me because until then, I carried the weight of the world on my shoulders and in doing so, started to find peace with the situation and the ability to put it behind me and move on.  I didn't do it for them at all, I did it for me.  

 

However, this came after a lot of self-evaluation/therapy and not as the result of any kind of religious dogma.  I'm not sure that would be the case with regard to the victims in this case.                                                                   

 

You're a better person than I...I will NEVER forgive the POS who harmed me but it isn't ruining my life. The Oprah "Forgive for yourself" BS I don't buy. 

 

FYI- he is now roaming the streets a free man (registered offender for a lesser crime) after his latest conviction (someone finally reported him).

If you live in OH & have children, PM me. 

 

I think it's stretching things to consider the "stern talking to" that Josh got from Jim Bob's buddy the pedo state trooper as alerting the proper authorities. A little scare talk and no paper trail. Jim Bob refusing to produce Josh for an interview and threatening to lawyer up when the actual police investigation happened three years later goes to the heart of what his real intentions were, in my opinion. What surprise is it that a homeschooling, home churching patriarch thinks that crime and punishment are also within his jurisdiction?

 

AMEN X 1000. 

 

LOL Yes please.

 

Today I've thought of Anna all day. I'm sure she is hurting. She doesn't deserve all this stress when she is pregnant. I don't like her stand by her man stance but I do feel for her situation.

Josh I don't give 2 hoots for but I do worry about all this stress on Anna during her pregnancy.

 

She should have considered that when she accepted a child molester as a husband.

Edited by BostonBlonde
  • Love 7
Link to comment

 

I too am waiting for Kirk Cameron's statement.

 

"Josh who?"

 

I really wonder how many friends the family will have after this. Will they still get outside 'friends' coming in to do the teaching, laundry, honey-do lists, etc.? There could be real manpower shortage.

 

Next week's ATI conference will make a pretty good barometer. I hope they're asked not to come, even though they're featured speakers.

  • Love 7
Link to comment

I think it was the old house.

I wonder how Anna is dealing with the pregnancy. As of last Wed. she had a birthing center, a midwife and a life in DC. How is she going to deliver now? A homebirth with Jill attending? My guess is it may be just her and Josh delivering at home, with little support.

This will also be her first birth that won't be filmed for TLC and won't be publicly celebrated.

I'm not trying to be dense but why would a pregnant woman and a child not have support during a birth?  I couldn't imagine it would be legal for healthcare providers to turn her away.  

  • Love 1
Link to comment

When did licensing and accreditation ever mean anything to the Duggars? My gut reaction to the word "counseling" was that it was some sort of Gothard speak that roughly meant someone listened to Josh's side of the story and gave some advice, and that's about it.

 

Josh didn’t need to leave home for counseling.  JimBob and Michelle fancy themselves qualified to counsel the kids on modesty, purity, marriage, sex, finances, bankruptcy, and any other subject that may come up, so obviously they’re experts on therapy for molesters and sex offenders too.    Just take the boy’s sorry ass to an officer of the law and have them give the little shit a stern talking to, then have the kid say “sorry” and make the victims offer forgiveness,  and all is right with the world.

  • Love 5
Link to comment

I definitely think Josh is moving back to AR. Did they have an inkling this was coming? Is that why he bought the house here?

I think JB will get him a job behind the scenes, away from the public for awhile. Doesn't JB own some rental units? Maybe Josh can handle those. The alternative is that he goes on the "I'm sorry tour" to speak at churches.

  • Love 3
Link to comment

Tell me if I'm wrong I don't want to speak out of turn.

Ok for 1. The duggars don't let many people spend the night so I'd have to guess amy is the 5th girl, if not amy maybe one of the bates girls.

For 2 I do believe God can change anything about a person and if Josh has really accepted God and asked for change who am I to say God hasn't fixed the issue?

3. Anna was raised that divorce isn't an option so I would definitely use the term "stuck" to describe her

4. I've read somewhere here before that the girls was raised to believe life is a fairy tale and nothing bad ever happens supposedly, we'll I think this incident had squashed that rumor. Obviously the girls know bad things can happen but for children and young adults dreaming big is a good part of life :) I still dream big at age 26

  • Love 1
Link to comment
(edited)

The alternative is that he goes on the "I'm sorry tour" to speak at churches.

I can see that happening unfortunately. And Jim Boob and Mechelle sitting in the front pew of whatever church they're in with plastered-on smiles and dollar signs in their eyes. Ugh.

I'm also wondering what churches would allow him/want him to come speak. I'm sure some would still be clinging to the idea that the Duggars are this pristine modest family. But I'm thinking that a lot would not be willing to let Josh speak...hopefully?

Edited by juneday
  • Love 3
Link to comment

My belief is that Anna knew before she married Josh that he had committed "mistakes," but there's no way she knew he was going to third base with his own sisters, including one who was 4. How can anyone defend these acts of absolute depravity and violence? Jesus. There is just no fucking way.

I wonder how in the world she could fathom being intimate with him now. And how she can't wonder, deep down, if he's ever touched MacKynzie.

I know ugh. I don't know how naive Anna still is so it's difficult to say. Who can she confide in? She is probably frantically trying to figure it all out on her own.

  • Love 5
Link to comment
(edited)

This chick has all her eggs in one basket.  She sort of reminds me of like a senator's wife who gave up everything just to be His Wife.  She is sort of trapped into "standing by her man" at that point, no matter what he has done.  

 

Reminds me of a Law and Order: SVU episode. By the way, as a longtime fan of that show I fully expect them to rip off the Josh Duggar scandal in an upcoming episode. What I like about their "ripped from the headlines" episodes is that the fictional counterparts usually get the justice that is denied the real life people.

 

Anyway, in the particular episode that reminds me of this, a rich woman is abused by her husband, and the detectives convince her to leave him. But her parents are dead, and she was an only child with no friends that were not her husband's. She never finished her college degree at her husband's request, and she also never worked. He froze her accounts when she left him, and she ended up in a homeless shelter. She ended up going back to the husband because she really had not many resources or a support system. it was truly frightening. NOT that Josh abuses Anna, nor is her situation as dire as the character's, but I think it would be very, very difficult for Anna to leave him when she's hitched her wagon to his for so long. I hope that if she wants to leave, she has the resources to do so. There are so many great resources out there for women in her situation. I can see Priscilla and David possibly taking her in.

 

By the way, I'm guessing the bromance between Josh and TFDW is probably done.

 

I too am waiting for Kirk Cameron's statement.

 

I'm surprised his ass hasn't spoken up. I fully expect a statement of support a la Huckabee. Or perhaps even his publicity-loving self doesn't want to get anywhere near this.

 

Edited by EarlGreyTea
  • Love 3
Link to comment
(edited)

I'm not trying to be dense but why would a pregnant woman and a child not have support during a birth? I couldn't imagine it would be legal for healthcare providers to turn her away.

It's not hard to find a dr that will take you, but they put a lot of effort into who delivers their children as they are so picky. I didn't mean to imply a dr wouldn't take them on, but that their first choice is now gone if they are now living in AR.

Now at 8? months pregnant Anna has to hope Dr. Sarver can squeeze in a patient in her schedule or will have to go with a stanger, which she didn't want with the first birth and delivered at home. Her past team included a midwife who isn't licensed for home births and Josh's sisters.

Edited by TaxNerd
  • Love 2
Link to comment
(edited)

In this whole screwed up saga, besides the girls, I also feel sorry for the M's and the howlers.  All of them have grown up with cameras and people surrounding them at all times (even if the howlers have never really been parented) and now suddenly everyone is on lockdown, there are probably lawyers everywhere and their whole world has been turned on it's head.  I seriously doubt that they have been given a real explanation besides that Josh made some mistakes and now the "evil media" is trying to punish them. 
Everything just changed for those kids and I would bet money that no-one in that house has the time or energy for them right now.  Understandably, the J girls are probably working through the emotional trauma of the whole world knowing that they were molested. Boob and Mechelle have never been particularly interested in their youngest and it would be all about them right now.  Pregnant Anna would be working through her troubles and I can't really see Josh taking on responsibility for any child now (or in the conceivable future). 
We have seen the howlers running around with no supervision even when everything was "normal" so god only knows what it is like in that house now since the sh*t just hit the fan, big time.  The girls and their siblings are the ones to suffer the most out of this which just breaks my heart.

Edited by ChocolateAddict
  • Love 10
Link to comment

I really think this is going to be a domino effect in many ways. I think for Josh, this will cause a very public meltdown of epic proportions. Several DUIs, mug shots on TMZ, other victims will come forward etc. This is just the beginning. Everyone will be watching his every move.

  • Love 11
Link to comment
(edited)

Looks like May 26-29 there's an ATI conference in Nashville. The Duggars a featured speakers. I made screen grabs of the program flyer, in case they vanish. The Bateses and Wallers are going to be there too.

 

I'm rapidly losing faith in humanity. I'm sure they'll go and be welcomed with opened arms.

 

http://familyconferences.org/

The Duggars are listed as attending by VIDEO, so not actually attending the conference. Not sure if that is a change since you saw the site.

[Here is a quote from the site: "The Nashville, Tennessee Family Conference is held right after Memorial Day weekend – May 26-29. The late spring weather is usually temperate, and the location has 50% of the U.S. population within 600 miles!" what an odd thing to say.]

Edited by Potato511
  • Love 3
Link to comment

I really think this is going to be a domino effect in many ways. I think for Josh, this will cause a very public meltdown of epic proportions. Several DUIs, mug shots on TMZ, other victims will come forward etc. This is just the beginning. Everyone will be watching his every move.

I too strongly suspect there is more to come.  The fact that even years after it supposedly ended, that Josh still thinks of it as "temptation" that got out of control, is a very, very bad sign to me.

  • Love 12
Link to comment

The Duggars are listed as attending by VIDEO, so not actually attending the conference. Not sure if that is a change since you saw the site. TFDW is listed as a speaker also (a live speaker). Here is a quote from the site: "The Nashville, Tennessee Family Conference is held right after Memorial Day weekend – May 26-29. The late spring weather is usually temperate, and the location has 50% of the U.S. population within 600 miles!" what an odd thing to say.

They always have loved their odd statistics that mean absolutely nothing!

  • Love 4
Link to comment

The Duggars are listed as attending by VIDEO, so not actually attending the conference. Not sure if that is a change since you saw the site.

[Here is a quote from the site: "The Nashville, Tennessee Family Conference is held right after Memorial Day weekend – May 26-29. The late spring weather is usually temperate, and the location has 50% of the U.S. population within 600 miles!" what an odd thing to say.]

 

The website has changed, I can things have moved around a bit.

Here's the most recent archive that says they're live:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150318220206/http://familyconferences.org/events/nashville/

 

Here's a screen grab I made of the program guide, which I can't find on the new site. It says they are tentative:

http://imgur.com/Q6vKcGX

 

This could all be nothing, or it could be ATI pulling away. Too soon to tell.

 

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

  • Love 5
Link to comment

No, sorry to confuse. The incidents took place before they moved to the new TTH. Posters were asking if Josh had his own space in the new house possibly to keep him separate and the discussion was that it seemed there was only the studio space in the boy's room so I looked up the floor plans and noted a closet.

I seem to recall that while reading one of the police reports- that one of the incidents happened in the TTH.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

  • Love 1
Link to comment

I don't think Anna is going anywhere, and I doubt she wants to. We are looking at this through our educated, and that doesn't mean degrees, it means we know of the world, so to speak, eyes. She has been raised in this cult. She may not have been abused herself, or think abuse is fine, but she was raised to be careful not to "defraud". Raised to believe that any woman who is not modest will incite the lust in the man, and yada yada. She will forgive his past sin because he was tempted and he gave into that temptation. To me, what he did indicates that he is a deeply disturbed person. She won't see it that way. I worked at a "place" (this is the internet) where a woman molested a teenage girl. This woman herself was molested, and that is not to say that every one who is molested, molests, but that can be a contributing factor. This woman is a pedophile, I am quite sure this young girl was not her first and won't be her last, but the owner of this "place" although she promptly fired this woman, feels this was a momentary aberration. Any kind of sex without consent is not any sort of aberration, but she needed to believe that. Couldn't accept that she may have hired a pedophile. Denial. Anna I am sure will cling to this denial. She will not be able to break vows that she has been raised her whole life to believe are sacred. She will assist with circling the wagons. I feel bad for her, but I already felt bad for the life she was leading as a brood mare to an egotistical prick.

  • Love 13
Link to comment

 

It's a quibble, but a marriage license is only valid for the state in which it's issued.

Oh no, it's fine - didn't 17kac show them getting the license? I clearly remember it. I think Jinger took pictures after.

Link to comment

I definitely think Josh is moving back to AR. Did they have an inkling this was coming? Is that why he bought the house here?

I think JB will get him a job behind the scenes, away from the public for awhile. Doesn't JB own some rental units? Maybe Josh can handle those. The alternative is that he goes on the "I'm sorry tour" to speak at churches.

 

I don't think he has a choice....I see the huge ressurection of Duggar Motors...but you know what it sad? They worship that family in that area and sadly...I think they will do well. I wish Anna would escape.

  • Love 1
Link to comment

I don't think he has a choice....I see the huge ressurection of Duggar Motors...but you know what it sad? They worship that family in that area and sadly...I think they will do well. I wish Anna would escape.

Well, I live in the area & everyone I know is appalled. I'm Catholic though so I don't count. :).

  • Love 20
Link to comment

I would like to boycott whoever sponsors the Duggar programs on TLC. Does anyone know? I have written emails and I also want my voice heard where the buck stops. Thank you in advance. 

  • Love 4
Link to comment

Wouldn't it be kinda weird for a "family friend" to write a letter about the abuse and put it in a book in the Duggars' home? Why would they do this? It's far more likely it was one of the children who did it as a cry for help.

 

I got the idea that a friend wrote a letter to the Duggars about it (i.e. "I'm concerned about x, y, z."  Some church people are big on letter-writing) and somebody in the house had a moment where they hastily shoved it in a book to keep one of the kids from seeing it or maybe carelessly used it as a bookmark or something like that and then they forgot it was in there.  Or one of the girls might have intercepted it and put it in the book.  Who knows?

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...